Unconvincing Quote of the Week
"Mike Huckabee Crosses Finish Line In Presidential Run" - the former governor's press release on his decision to quit the race.
The Week in Brief
- Hillary Clinton won primaries in Ohio, Texas, and Rhode Island, surviving to fight on and retooling her strategy even as Barack Obama maintained a delegate lead.
- John McCain clinched the GOP nomination for president, and Mike Huckabee left the race.
- Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich won their re-election bids.
- The new head of the Republican National Committee Victory effort? Yes, it's Rudy Giuliani's former campaign manager.
Below the Fold
- David Corn shames the Clinton campaign for making hay out of Samantha Power's bluntness.
- More by Jacob Heilbrunn on the same issue.
- Patrick Ruffini—who has alternately greatly overestimated or greatly underestimated the Ron Paul movement, but who's otherwise very on the ball—talks at length about how the internet can democratize the GOP's 2008 campaign.
- Mark Hemingway chats with Larry Lessig, who clearly isn't done with politics.
- David Boaz pays tribute to WFB.
- Cliff Bostock comes out, boldly, against the elderly.
When the primary gets fierce, my Politics n' Prog selection node seeks out songs about warfar. Thus, Wishbone Ash.
The Friday Political Thread: "If She's Not a Monster, How Come She's Still Moving?" Edition
Comments to "The Friday Political Thread: "If She's Not a Monster, How Come She's Still Moving?" Edition":
Christian Siriano | March 7, 2008, 6:20pm | #
"Fierce" is my adjective.ChicagoTom | March 7, 2008, 6:39pm | #
Hillary Clinton won primaries in Ohio, Texas, and Rhode Island, surviving to fight on and retooling her strategy even as Barack Obama maintained a delegate lead.The reports I have seen is that when you do the match for the Texas Primary and the Texas Caucus, Obama will finish with 1 more delegate than Clinton.
How does that constitute a "win" in Texas?
Geotpf | March 7, 2008, 6:47pm | #
She did win the primary, although she lost the caucus.This result may be an indication that Rush Limbaugh's plea for people to vote for Hillary worked. Obviously a dittohead wouldn't want to stand in line for two hours waiting for the caucus to start, and then publicly state his love of Hillary.
I wonder if Kansas has yet to make Politics and Prog. And if you don't think they are "worthy," check out Journey From Mariabronn, Icarus, Song For America or The Pinnacle, all of which are every bit as good as Yes, Genenis, Rush or ELP at their best. Steve Hackett from Genesis once said vocalist Steve Walsh had the "perfect white rock voice." And in his prime, Walsh was arguably the greatest progressive rock vocalist.
J sub D | March 7, 2008, 7:01pm | #
- The new head of the Republican National Committee Victory effort? Yes, it's Rudy Giuliani's former campaign manager.The former Dukakis campaign manager must have turned them down.
highnumber | March 7, 2008, 7:01pm | #
I wonder if Kansas has yet to make Politics and Prog. And if you don't think they are "worthy," check out Journey From Mariabronn, Icarus, Song For America or The Pinnacle, all of which are every bit as good as Yes, Genenis, Rush or ELP at their best.I just threw up a little in my mouth.
Why? Because you don't like Prog. Or you disagree with my assertion on Kansas? If you don't like prog I can't argue with that. I will, however, fight to the death arguing that Kansas at their best are every bit as good as the best of the British prog rockers.
Click 'n' Learn | March 7, 2008, 7:09pm | #
1. Speaking about Larry Lessig, democratization, and Ron Paul, if anyone wants a cheap and fairly easy way to a) help reform our political system, b) help reform the media, and c) encourage RP to run as a third-party candidate, do the following:Yes, it's that simple. We now have the means to hold politicians accountable for their proposals and let potentially millions of people see it via Youtube and similar venues. Doing that would be a great way to reduce McCain's popularity and also a great way to point out the differences between Ron Paul and the other candidates.
* Go to campaign events
* Ask the questions the MSM is afraid to ask
* Videotape the response and upload it
And, doing it would be a great public service and a way to obtain some degree of fame. If you can't do it, encourage others to do it.
2. I continue to be the only blogger and similar who's willing to point out that Obama supports Bush's SPP scheme (spp.gov). Why o why could that be?
3. On a related note, those behind the SPP are starting up their media campaign.
4. In celebration of Her glorious recent victories, here's a flashback to the jubilations surrounding the first Clinton reign. That's also this week's prog antidote.
highnumber | March 7, 2008, 7:20pm | #
I'm just teasing a little because I really, really don't like those bands you named. As a rule I don't like prog, but of course exceptions come along once in a while.joe | March 7, 2008, 7:21pm | #
"The North American Alliance"An ALLIANCE? With other countries in North America?
Ohnoes! We can't be allies with Canada and Mexico, that would be crazy.
Next thing you know, they'll be helping us guard our airspace and stuff.
Is there anyone releasing music today that could be considered Prog, or is it strictly a phenomenon of the 70s and 80s?
Jon Rowe | March 7, 2008, 7:22pm | #
this btw, is the album recording of one of the best composed if not the best composed prog-rock tune ever. If you haven't heard it, you are missing out.Jon Rowe | March 7, 2008, 7:24pm | #
Yes of course there is plenty of new prog-rock stuff from Dream Theater to Mars Volta to many others.Highnumber, I gotcha. Those who like punk/alternative tend to be very anti-prog.
Mr. Nice Guy | March 7, 2008, 7:26pm | #
I for one never play the "vote for the weakest candidate in the party that you oppose's primary" because sometimes that "weaker" candidate will win, and then they make the laws that rule your life...It's neat that Hillary, in the rhetoric of the conservative talk show hosts, has gone from "unstoppable monster" to "the weaker of the two." I wonder how much of their "go support HRC" stuff is a hope that she is around for them to harp about for a while (a HRC presidency would be great for Limbaugh et al). Either way, up until very recently I was convinced that I should swallow the puke in my mouth that surfaces imagining a Clinton presidency and support her in the primaries because she was "stronger" than Obama...I'm glad I decided to go with Obama now that HRC is working every slimy trick imaginable (trying to seat the FL and MI delegates, working the super delegates) and selfishly attacking her opponent (claiming he does not experience to be President or Commander in Chief).
One thing HRC can say to Dem leaning voters is that she has won the following primaries: Florida, Ohio, Michigan, Texas, California, NY...All big electoral states, and the first two crucial swing states in 2008.
Click 'n' Learn | March 7, 2008, 7:27pm | #
joe: you won't find too many cosmos disagreeing with you, since they don't recognize things like our borders, subjugating the Constitution to "ministers" (see the document in the third link), avoiding foreign entanglements, and the like.Vietnam Vets Against McCain | March 7, 2008, 7:31pm | #
I invite everyone to learn the real story about John Sidney McCain III. Click on my handle. McCain III isn't the hero he makes himself out to be. He has totally and completely betrayed POWs, MIAs, and their families for crass political gain. Learn the truth. John Sidney McCain III--just another Washington politician.Janice Templeton | March 7, 2008, 7:33pm | #
reason sucksjoe | March 7, 2008, 7:39pm | #
Not just "ministers," you big, racist lunatic, you, but the Privy Council.Yes, THAT Privy Council.
Good night sleeping tonight, reasonoids. When you wake up tomorrow, the Clerk of the Privy Council could be driving on a highway in Texas.
SIV | March 7, 2008, 7:48pm | #
lonewacko,Self linking and Mex hatin' is one thing but I just can't abide Natalie Merchant fandom.
Vietnam Vets Against McCain | March 7, 2008, 7:52pm | #
John Sidney McCain III not only was one of the few Senators to block further investigations into missing Vietnam POWs, but when he was in a North Vietnamese prison camp he also willingly broadcast Communist propaganda. McCain III accused American troops of targeting hospitals, orphanages, and schools in exchange for special treatment by the Viet Cong.John Sidney McCain III--a man you just can't trust.
joe | March 7, 2008, 7:57pm | #
Woule Muse be considered contemporary Prog?I know about Dream Theater, but they're a old band.
highnumber | March 7, 2008, 8:07pm | #
Radiohead has a prog vibe going on.David E. Gallaher | March 7, 2008, 8:08pm | #
Monsters, chickens and snakes keep moving long after their heads have been cut off.Billary's head, Slick Willie, has been cut off.
Remain calm. Remain patient. Move on.
Obama has slain the dragon.
Click 'n' Learn | March 7, 2008, 8:10pm | #
I just had a horrible thought.Were all those people supporting RP online... just one person?
Because, after The Fall, pro-RP Diggs, videos, and comments have dropped drastically. Is that because The Ron Paul Supporter got discouraged or something? A case in point: this mocking WaPo post only has eight or so pro-RP comments, including one from me.
SIV: This is for you. This is for everyone else.
Prog is Evil Influence | March 7, 2008, 8:10pm | #
"I was taken to the symphony a lot because my mother loved classical music. But I was dragged to see Styx when I was 12. We had to drive 100 miles to Buffalo, New York. Someone threw up next to me and people were smoking pot. It was terrifying. I remember Styx had a white piano which rose out of the stage. It was awe-inspiring and inspirational."Natalie Merchant recounting her Prog inspirations.
Vietnam Vets Against McCain | March 7, 2008, 8:22pm | #
Did John Sidney McCain III broadcast Viet Cong Propaganda for special treatment in POW camp? The answers may surprise you.John Sidney McCain III. Wrong in the past. Wrong for our future.
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 7, 2008, 8:22pm | #
Jon Rowe:I didn't know Mars Volta counted as prog, but it is good.
johnl | March 7, 2008, 8:27pm | #
Hey joe, yes. Also the Barsuk records bands (Death Cab for Cutie, Nada Surf, Postal Service, ...) are proggy.David E. Gallaher | March 7, 2008, 8:30pm | #
Vietnam Vets Against McCain,I'm sure I'm not the first to break this to you. You are going to have to hone your message before you get traction here.
I'm a Vietnam Vet Against McCain. So what?
And he's a guy I can't trust? Hell, I don't trust myself.
Get to honin', then come back. Not sooner. Give us a major rework.
If you want government programs for veterans, honing may not be enough.
mccleary | March 7, 2008, 8:34pm | #
Jon Rowe,I honestly don't mean this to be snarky, but you managed to craft a masterful sentence here:
Steve Hackett from Genesis once said vocalist Steve Walsh had the "perfect white rock voice."
Without getting into a discussion of taste, that sentence manages to define exactly what you and other fans love about Kansas, while simultaneously explaining why I and other non-fans hate them.
Vietnam Vets Against McCain | March 7, 2008, 8:38pm | #
David, I don't seek any government programs. I merely want McCain to explain why he didn't ask Hanoi to release the records they had on him when diplomatic relations were normalized in 1995. Many other POWs say the reason he didn't demand that these records be released is because he received special treatment from the Viet Cong in exchange for broadcasting Jane Fonda-like statements against America.Whats Sidney hiding? We may never know, especially if hes elected President.
Click 'n' Learn | March 7, 2008, 8:44pm | #
VVAM: I'm sure your message could get some traction, but I'd suggest concentrating on the here and now as an easier and "cleaner" approach. See the first point in my first comment.joe | March 7, 2008, 8:55pm | #
Vietnam Vets Against McCain makes me want to vote for McCain just to piss him off.Slandering veterans like that is repugnant.
He was tortured you douchebag! What the fuck is wrong with you?
joe | March 7, 2008, 8:56pm | #
Many other POW./.name one.
First name, last name.
BTW, I'm Joe Boyle, and I live in Lowell, Massachusetts.
Did I mention you're a douchebag?
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 7, 2008, 9:00pm | #
BTW, I'm Joe Boyle, and I live in Lowell, Massachusetts.Hi, Joe! I'm...hey wait, this is a trick, right?
Damn it! You all won't trick me into giving out my name or address until they tenure my sorry ass.
Vietnam Vetarans Against McCain | March 7, 2008, 9:02pm | #
Joe Gerard W. Kiley is the head of Vietnam Veterans Against McCain. Hes a highly decorated veteran who know the truth about Sidney.Before you accuse him of being some kind of partisan, keep in mind he was also a member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth in 2004.
Bob Dumas is another Vietnam Vet (and former POW) who knows that Sideny III is little more than a spoiled rich kid who broadcasted Jane Fonda-like propaganda for the Viet Cong in exchange for special treatment.
Go to our YouTube channel Joe. Learn the truth. Don't vote for Sidney.
Vietnam Veterans Against McCain | March 7, 2008, 9:07pm | #
Watch the videos, Joe. Decide for yourself. But you can't talk until you have seen the videos.This isn't a partisan issue. Its about truth and honor. No true patriot would broadcast Jane Fonda-like statements for the enemy, would they?
Watch the videos and get back to me, ok?
Even former Congressman Bob Dornan (R-CA) thinks Sidney is a big fraud.
joe | March 7, 2008, 9:11pm | #
1) What kind of person doesn't respond to being repeatedly sworn at? A tool. An operator.2) Swift Boat vets AND B-1 Bob. All right then.
People like you are what is wrong with this country.
Vietnam Veterans Against McCain | March 7, 2008, 9:14pm | #
Instead of calling me a tool, Joe, why don't you watch the videos and tell me what you think of them? What do you have to lose? Scared?Go ahead and watch. You'll be enlightened.
joe | March 7, 2008, 9:14pm | #
I take that back. The part about calling you a person.You're not a person. You're a campaign tactic. Maybe, once upon a time, there was a person in there, but he's gone. For a long time, by all appearances.
Blah blah blah, type the lines they told you spam blogs with again, like a good little robot.
johnl | March 7, 2008, 9:18pm | #
Oh thanks for the reminder joe. Perfect Circle and Tool are prog bands.joe | March 7, 2008, 9:24pm | #
OK, it's looks like "prog band" is being used to mean "prog-influenced band."Tool is a metal band, Death Cab for Cutie is an alternative band. Neither is the same genre as Yes or Genesis or Dream Theater, but I can hear the influence.
Bostondreams | March 7, 2008, 9:27pm | #
"One thing HRC can say to Dem leaning voters is that she has won the following primaries: Florida, Ohio, Michigan, Texas, California, NY...All big electoral states, and the first two crucial swing states in 2008."California goes Republican when Skynet is actually up and running..until then, I believe its Dem territory no matter who is on the ballot.
As for Floroda, two dog whistles in the GE, that will draw out conservatives: Clinton the ballot, and an ant-gay marriage amendment on the ballot. Remember that this is one of the only states to still forbid gays from adopting. I don't see how Clinton wins Florida, especially if Crist winds up the VP nominee.
Bostondreams | March 7, 2008, 9:27pm | #
Wow, thats alot of typos. Sorry about that.Cesar | March 7, 2008, 9:28pm | #
I see I'm late to the party.So the Clinton campaign has come to H&R? Hi Hill!
Nephilium | March 7, 2008, 9:29pm | #
joe:Would Apocolyptica count as a prog band? I've seen them referenced as such... I just appreciate a group of classic celloists who play metal songs...
And they're coming to Cleveland...
Note to self: Buy ticket.
Nephilium
John McCain | March 7, 2008, 9:33pm | #
My friends, Vietnam veterans are not in fact against me, my friends. Please disregard this talk of the poster Vietnam Veterans Against McCain, my friends. My friends, if I have to I will reinvade Vietnam so that his assertions cannot be proven true, my friends.joe | March 7, 2008, 9:44pm | #
I don't know them, Neph.I do know the fields of the you, so I'm not clueless when it comes to music, but I don't know that band.
johnl | March 7, 2008, 9:47pm | #
Ok joe if you are looking for pure mid 70s prog uninfluenced by grunge or garage, you should listen to the Decemberists.Neu Mejican | March 7, 2008, 9:58pm | #
For those who want real prog rock with their politics..http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2008/03/boris-statement.html
Neu Mejican | March 7, 2008, 10:03pm | #
And if Boris is not to your taste...There is always
Green Milk From Planet Orange
http://youtube.com/watch?v=U0vK7_BQp-4
joe, if prog rock is limited to Yes or Genesis or Dream Theater...you ain't talking prog.
Neu Mejican | March 7, 2008, 10:09pm | #
If Rush is prog.Then Tool is prog (since Tool are the new Rush).
Bingo | March 7, 2008, 10:10pm | #
joe: yep Muse is neo-prog, Radiohead apparently has some prog influences but I have a kneejerk hatred of them for some reason.Also its unlikely to find any "pure" band of any genre these days, which I find appealing because it keeps things fresh. Lots of great stuff out there!
Neu Mejican | March 7, 2008, 10:12pm | #
Bingo,Also its unlikely to find any "pure" band of any genre these days
I would disagree.
What I find amazing are these kids who are doing spot on imitations of music from before they were born.
eg, http://www.myspace.com/theheavy73
Bingo | March 7, 2008, 10:17pm | #
Haha NM that is scary how perfectly they would fit into the era. Okay point taken! These guys would fit that description pretty well too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na-TMIXHzy4Nephilium | March 7, 2008, 10:34pm | #
Here you go joe...Four celloists playing Nothing Else Matters.
See if this works for you... if for nothing else, then if you like bizarre covers, click the linky...
Nephilium
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 7, 2008, 10:43pm | #
OK I can't remember who it was on here who was really opposed to Randy Newman (other than me - "don't need no short people round here" my ass), but on the subject of Prog rock, this is a pretty funny send-up of ELO.Neu Mejican | March 7, 2008, 10:52pm | #
SWDWTLHJ,That was me.
Fucking Randy Newman sucks...
ELO hit and miss.
Will Sasso used to do a great Randy Newman parody.
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 7, 2008, 11:00pm | #
Yeah I saw at least one episode of MAD where he did that. Will Sasso is pretty good. His Kenny Rogers and his Randy Newman are both hilarious. Actually I like a good bit of ELO, but still, they sort of leave themselves pretty open to ridicule. (As do we short people, right Randy, you sumbitch?! *grinds axe*)The part of the song where he calls them a rock-roll band right after the discussion of who played the little violin and who played the big violin is pretty freakin' funny.
Ali | March 7, 2008, 11:04pm | #
SWDWTLHJ-What are you trying to get tenured in? Just curios. You do not have to say. There is quite a few of us untenured folks around. Poor us.
Ali | March 7, 2008, 11:07pm | #
SWDWTLHJ-You know what, strike that. Why am I being nosy? It would not make a difference what your area is. I actually feel guilty asking that question. Is there something wrong with me?
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 7, 2008, 11:08pm | #
Ali - It's no problem. I give out a lot of info on here, just not quite all of it. I teach at a private liberal arts college in Virginia where I'm an assistant professor of mathematics.I have three years left 'til I go up. Things look OK for me now (I just did my third year review), so I hope that they stay that way.
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 7, 2008, 11:10pm | #
Ali- seriously, it's not a problem. I've mentioned that I'm a mathematician in Virginia lots of times on here.No new secrets were uncovered. :o)
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 7, 2008, 11:12pm | #
Ali: By the way, if you don't mind my asking, what discipline are you teaching in?(I always thought that sounded strange, calling them disciplines - like the answer ought to be mantis-style kung-fu or pyrokinesis.)
Ali | March 7, 2008, 11:15pm | #
SWDWTLHJ-Similar situation here, but in engineering (aero). Smaller school, in ma. I did actually do an msc in mathematics (dynamical systems and geometric mechanics). I am doing very good as far as tenure is concerned. Still not even two years, but I am hoping to nail this thing soon by getting some research moneys. That part ain't fun, until you get the first sums of money.
Money is good. Money is always good.
Ali | March 7, 2008, 11:18pm | #
Oh, and my erdos number is 4. My erdos-bacon number is 8 (but I tweak the definition of the e-b number a little from that used in wiki).Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 7, 2008, 11:22pm | #
Yeah tell me about it. We're a teaching school, so the publication expectation is pretty small (which is what I was looking for), but I'm currently working on getting a big grant. (I'm really close, it'll probably be finalized by next week.) I can only imagine will help my case out a lot when I go up.The money here is not that great. I mean it's OK, but nothing special until you realize that you're getting paid for seven and a half months of work, really. Any time you multiply your salary by 1.6 to find your effective salary if you didn't have a huge vacation built in, it makes you feel better.
Click 'n' Learn | March 7, 2008, 11:32pm | #
Get a room, you two! And... make sure and turn on your TV, because:THE EDITOR-IN-CHIEF OF REASON IS ON BILL MOYERS' SHOW!!!
Also, for those who were wondering where the new prog is... here it is! Of course, unlike regular prog, it's acoustic. And, unlike regular prog, the song isn't about robots or comic books. And, unlike regular prog, the performer isn't a guy who looks like a girl (regular or Canadian).
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 7, 2008, 11:42pm | #
I currently have an infinite Erdos number but there's some chance at least that I'll have either a 4 or a 5 by the time I am tenured. (I'm cuurently working with my department head on one paper and my advisor on another; my department head has a Erdos number of 4 (I think) and I imagine my advisor has a finite one, maybe lower.Actually, if you count student films, I probably have a finite Bacon number already. I was in one and think I should be able to trace myself to Piper Perabo; from there to Kevin Bacon should be easy.
Let's see: Piper Perabo in "The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle" with Robert De Niro.
Robert De Niro was in "Sleepers" with Kevin Bacon.
The path from me to Piper Perabo is a bit more tortured, though.
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 7, 2008, 11:42pm | #
Thanks for keeping the open thread appropriately moderated, Lone Wacko.Ali | March 7, 2008, 11:49pm | #
SWDWTLHJ-Haha... I never acted, that's why I said that I tweaked the definition of the e-b number.
Anyhow, good luck with all.
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 7, 2008, 11:52pm | #
No problem - just tracked it down: Bacon number of 4 here.Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 7, 2008, 11:52pm | #
Good luck to you too.Nephilium | March 8, 2008, 12:31am | #
SWDWTLHJ:Bah! I scoff at your Bacon number of 4!
Bacon number of three, but through live acting, not movies. Worked with someone who was an extra in Kalifornia, which had Brad Pitt in it...
Of course, being a non-college graduate, I have no Erdos number.
Hmmm... so who would the headbrewer be that would qualify for such treatment...
Nephilium
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 12:54am | #
Nephilium, my Bacon number comes from a part in a student film - a speaking role and not extra work. I think this makes it legal in mosts variations of the rule set for the Bacon game, though I'm not absolutely sure given that it was from a student film role.My Erdõs number is still infinite, but once I publish a non-solo paper with my department head it'll be either 4 or 5. I imagine if I get one out with my advisor, it'd probably be 3 or 4 from that.
There actually are a few people who have legit Erdõs-Bacon numbers, including Natalie Portman, Danica McKellar, Bertrand Russell, Paul Erdõs himself, and physicists Stephen Hawking, Brian Greene, and Richard Feynman. See here.
If I actually get a finite Erdõs-bacon number, I might have to get a car and a license plate to commemorate this completely ridiculous achievement.
tarylcabot | March 8, 2008, 1:02am | #
Argus was one of my favorites back in high school. killer 2nd site with Warrior & Throw down the sword. still enjoyable to listen to even though it's obvious their guitar playing is far superior to their song writing or singing or lyrics.very much enjoy your politics & prog retro-music links.
Jim Walsh | March 8, 2008, 1:51am | #
Ya like prog?Ya dig Kansas?
Ya want something with a "libertarian" message?
Here ya go...
Bingo | March 8, 2008, 2:53am | #
Wow you know when the lead singer pulls out a violin you are dealing with a serious prog rock band.How the hell did men wear their hair so long back in the 70s its fucking obnoxious!
Bingo | March 8, 2008, 2:55am | #
Also Erdos (inc. umlauts or whatever) numbers seem pretty fucking smarmy and honestly who cares?Mad Max | March 8, 2008, 8:49am | #
Wake up, America!Hillary Clinton is undead, so killing her would be redundant.
Obama's real name is Sheikh Yabhooti, and he's a radical Imam who wants to bring American under Sharia Law and have polygamous marriages with all of your daughters.
John McCain was never in the Hanoi Hilton - he was such a cooperative prisoner that the Viet Cong put him up at the lesser-known Hanoi Marriott, where he had his own private room, a concierge, free cable including porn, and regular orgies with Jane Fonda.
Obama, Clinton and McCain are secretly in league with the Council on Foreign Relations, the Bilderburgers, the builders of the NAFTA Superhighway, and several Progressive Rock bands to subjugate and enslave this great country. But it's not too late to buy my books and CDs which will explain how to cut off the tentacles of this insidious conspiracy.
Awake, arise, America! To your tents, O Israel!
And the only time John McCain was tortured was when Jane Fonda forced him to watch one of her movies.
edna | March 8, 2008, 10:19am | #
hey, i'm an e-b 4. w00t!something of a cheat since barry levinson is a cousin.
when it comes to rock violin, there's the flock and then there's everyone else.
Neu Mejican | March 8, 2008, 10:23am | #
My Bacon number...1-2 -good friend has a cousin in the senate.
3- senators work with Dick Cheney
4- Dick Cheney debated John Edwards
5- Kevin Bacon worked on Edwards campaign
Neu Mejican | March 8, 2008, 10:26am | #
That means, of course, that my Cheney number is much smaller than my Bacon number (shudders).Episiarch | March 8, 2008, 10:31am | #
You dudes are jokes. Hawkwind is the ultimate prog rock. If your band hasn't done an entire albulm about Elric of Melniboné, with fucking Michael Moorcock playing guitar, your band sucks.King Crimson is good too.
Neu Mejican | March 8, 2008, 10:31am | #
Although, my Bacon number is not based on film work...it would be infinite based on that.Porcupine Tree are proggier than many of the old-school prog groups.
Neu Mejican | March 8, 2008, 10:35am | #
Episiarch,Hawkwind and King Crimson are both hard-core prog...hard to argue with those choices.
I would argue, however, that ELP are the prog-iest of the prog...I mean when you debut with Pictures at an Exhibition and stick giant daggers in you B3, you are truly prog.
Ref | March 8, 2008, 10:38am | #
I'm really starting to realize how dorky you people are.Episiarch | March 8, 2008, 10:39am | #
Arioch and Xiombarg endorse Emerson, Lake, & Palmer because Greg Lake was in King Crimson. Your choice pleases them.Neu Mejican | March 8, 2008, 10:39am | #
Although...Tales of Topographic Oceans at 3 albums may be the prog-iest song ever.
Episiarch | March 8, 2008, 10:40am | #
I'm really starting to realize how dorky you people are.Stick around, we're just getting started.
Neu Mejican | March 8, 2008, 10:42am | #
Oops...I guess it only seems like it is six sides long...
I used to smoke too much pot when I was young I guess...the prog days are kinda fuzzy...
From Wikipedia,
The album's concept, a two-disc, four-piece work of symphonic length and scope (based on the Shastric scriptures, as found in a footnote within Paramahansa Yogananda's book Autobiography of a Yogi), was their most ambitious to date.
J sub D | March 8, 2008, 10:42am | #
Hi, Joe! I'm...hey wait, this is a trick, right?Damn it! You all won't trick me into giving out my name or address until they tenure my sorry ass.
The Internet Idol© jury gives SWDWTLHJ ★★★★.
robc | March 8, 2008, 10:45am | #
NM,Tales is only two albums, and its 4 songs. Each side of the double LP is a different song.
When I saw Yes back in 97? 98? they played The Revealing Science of God. I think, hard to keep those 4 songs straight. :) My date needed to hit the bathroom, I told her it was a good time, the next song was 20 minutes away.
robc | March 8, 2008, 10:46am | #
Wouldnt Thick as a Brick be the proggiest song ever? Its a double sided song, IIRC.robc | March 8, 2008, 10:48am | #
While the previous album, Aqualung, stretched the band's wings further from the blues of the first three albums, it was still basically mainstream rock. Band leader Ian Anderson was surprised by the critical reaction to the previous album Aqualung as a "concept album", a label he has firmly rejected to this day. In an interview on In the Studio with Redbeard (which spotlighted Thick as a Brick), Ian Anderson's response to the critics was "if the critics want a concept album we'll give them a concept album and we'll make it so bombastic and so over the top."robc | March 8, 2008, 10:51am | #
Speaking of King Crimson (a few posts back), Lark's Tongue in Aspic is in my CD player right now. I should probably turn it on.Neu Mejican | March 8, 2008, 10:52am | #
robc,Thick as a Brick is listed as the number one prog album of all time on the Prog archives...
As for Tales of Topographic Oceans being 4 songs...
I would say they are 4 movements of the same piece.
Neu Mejican | March 8, 2008, 10:53am | #
Close tags...Damn.robc | March 8, 2008, 10:53am | #
Bacon number:1. My business partner
2. Grew up on the same street with Tom Cruise (for the few years he was in Louisville)
3. Who Im sure has done a movie with Bacon, but Im not checking.
J sub D | March 8, 2008, 11:43am | #
Hey, this is The Friday Political ThreadNot The Friday Prog Rock Thread.
Not The Friday Bacon Number/Erdõs Number Thread. Hmph. [/cranky]
From Prsident Bush's address last night -
The main reason this program has been effective is that it allows the C.I.A. to use specialized interrogation procedures to question a small number of the most dangerous terrorists under careful supervision. The bill Congress sent me would deprive the C.I.A. of the authority to use these safe and lawful techniques. Instead, it would restrict the C.I.A.’s range of acceptable interrogation methods to those provided in the Army field manual. The procedures in this manual were designed for use by soldiers questioning lawful combatants captured on the battlefield. They were not intended for intelligence professionals trained to question hardened terrorists.
Translation - torture is a desirable tactic if conducted by "intelligence professionals".
This makes me so proud to be an American. Excuse me while I regurgitate my brunch.
David E. Gallaher | March 8, 2008, 12:00pm | #
I'm marooned by the snow here, so I've been reading almost every word in a New Yorker magazine. Story there about Castro stepping down reminds of what you're saying about torture, J sub D. US policy toward Cuba has been working every bit as well as its policy on torture. Makes Amurika safer and more properous. Yeah right.my imitation Bacon number:
1. Had it on my imitation scrambled eggs this morn.
robc | March 8, 2008, 12:01pm | #
Excuse me while I regurgitate my brunch.I cant do this, I just carbo loaded so I can head out to shovel my driveway (I think this is the biggest snowfall we have received since I moved back to the ville in 1994 - damn global warming [that was for you, joe]). Anyway, my 5-CD player is shuffling thru Yes, Rush, Genesis, Kansas, and King Crimson. It is progurday.
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 12:14pm | #
J sub D: Way to enforce the rules, brutha!And thanks for the award!
My favorite part of the week was seeing peopole get excited about the poll that showed Obama up 12 over McCain -- if you weight Dems by an extra 20%.
TallDave | March 8, 2008, 12:25pm | #
Translation - torture is a desirable tactic if conducted by "intelligence professionals". Excuse me while I regurgitate my brunch.If you consider running water over 3 senior AQ terrorists with detailed knowledge of plans to kill Americans "torture."
Peronally, I'd rather see you alive and regurgitating, but I'm just sentimental that way.
robc | March 8, 2008, 12:30pm | #
TallDaveUnless there was a good reason to run water over them (like they were on fire or something), it is torture.
Maybe relatively mild torture, but still torture.
robc | March 8, 2008, 12:34pm | #
Okay, the dictionary says torture involves either "excruciating" or "severe" pain. So, I guess there is no such thing as "mild torture." But, I doubt anything short of "excruciating" or "severe" could get a confession out of someone, so anything short of torture seems pointless anyway.robc | March 8, 2008, 12:45pm | #
"Runaway greenhouse theories contradict energy balance equations," Miskolczi states. Just as the theory of relativity sets an upper limit on velocity, his theory sets an upper limit on the greenhouse effect, a limit which prevents it from warming the Earth more than a certain amount.How did modern researchers make such a mistake? They relied upon equations derived over 80 years ago, equations which left off one term from the final solution.
Miskolczi's story reads like a book. Looking at a series of differential equations for the greenhouse effect, he noticed the solution -- originally done in 1922 by Arthur Milne, but still used by climate researchers today -- ignored boundary conditions by assuming an "infinitely thick" atmosphere. Similar assumptions are common when solving differential equations; they simplify the calculations and often result in a result that still very closely matches reality. But not always.
So Miskolczi re-derived the solution, this time using the proper boundary conditions for an atmosphere that is not infinite. His result included a new term, which acts as a negative feedback to counter the positive forcing. At low levels, the new term means a small difference ... but as greenhouse gases rise, the negative feedback predominates, forcing values back down.
Whole article here
Neu Mejican | March 8, 2008, 1:13pm | #
robc,This was posted on comments on Realclimate.org
Comment [[“Runaway greenhouse theories contradict energy balance equations,” Miskolczi states. Just as the theory of relativity sets an upper limit on velocity, his theory sets an upper limit on the greenhouse effect, a limit which prevents it from warming the Earth more than a certain amount. ]]
Response to comment
Yes, it can only warm a couple hundred more degrees if all the carbon in the carbonate rocks were to be released, which won’t happen for a billion years. But it doesn’t look like this guy actually understands what a “runaway greenhouse effect” is. He should look up the planetary astronomy data on the history of Venus, where it happened.
robc | March 8, 2008, 1:21pm | #
NM,He mentioned Venus in the article, so Im guessing he has an understanding of it. He is hoping for more Venus data so he can use it to help verify his equations.
J sub D | March 8, 2008, 1:32pm | #
TallDaveCan I waterboard you with immunity from prosecution? I figger you'd be turning in your loved ones soon enough.
Neu Mejican | March 8, 2008, 1:33pm | #
robc,The point, I believe, is that if Venus is an example of the boundary conditions, then we are not talking about a refutation of the basic findings which stay within a range of a few degrees.
I am also pretty sure that the statement that actual temperatures lag the models is incorrect. Seems like the actual data is in the upper end of the confidence intervals from the IPCC.
robc | March 8, 2008, 1:41pm | #
The point, I believe, is that all the major climate models need to be modified with the correct equation with the extra term.Just from my slightly-more-than-basic-but-not-a-math-major knowledge of Differential Equations, his adjustment is something Im familiar with. Ive seen that kind of boundary condition approximations made plenty of times. Usually it works okay, sometimes the term you drop is important. I think the client modellers need to readjust for that term and then see what there models say. He may or may not be write about the affect, but I like his math (from the description in the article). However, it wouldnt surprise me if there was a negative feedback term. Sharp spike in temp followed by longterm decline does seem to be the historical pattern.
Ali | March 8, 2008, 1:41pm | #
TallDaveCan I waterboard you with immunity from prosecution? I figger you'd be turning in your loved ones soon enough.
J sub D- You will have to prove that he's an AQ member first. For that, you can waterboard him. Once he admits membersip to AQ, then, and only then, can you waterboard him to get more information from him.
joe | March 8, 2008, 1:50pm | #
Interesting reasoning, TallDave.How about hot pokers - is that torture if done to a terrorist?
Bamboo shoots? Beating the soles of the feet? Electric shocks?
How about if you think he's a terrorist, and then it turns out you've got the wrong guy? Is it not torture, and then retroactively becomes torture?
You haven't given a definition of torture. You've just demonstrated that you'll sell out your principles through fear.
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 1:52pm | #
Ali:or suspect him of being an AQ member.
or maybe having been near where some suspected AQ members might have been.
joe | March 8, 2008, 1:58pm | #
Updates from Wyoming here, and some pictures.http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/8/61411/81462/867/472032
Wyoming is really beautiful.
Ali | March 8, 2008, 2:14pm | #
Ali:or suspect him of being an AQ member.
or maybe having been near where some suspected AQ members might have been.
May be we can define an OBL number a la erdos-bacon. The lower your (suspected) number is, the higher your torture level becomes.
J sub D | March 8, 2008, 2:15pm | #
Updates from Wyoming here, and some pictures.I pretended I was a Democrat and didn't RTFA. Just looked at the pics. Wyoming is definitely in the top 50 beautiful states. I don't want to offend folks from the ugly states
Admit it, you know if yours is one of the uglt states. ;-)
J sub D | March 8, 2008, 2:18pm | #
Whenever I throw in the immunity from prosecution thingee, nobody vol;unteers to be waterboarded.I can't imagine why. It's what the AQ detainees faced, so it can't be torture. Right?
edna | March 8, 2008, 2:20pm | #
parts of wyoming are beautiful. the eastern part looks like nebraska. i have some land in casper and that area is butt ugly.go to the west and it starts looking pretty spectacular.
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 2:35pm | #
J sub D: Nothing we do can be torture.Because we don't torture.
It's not circular reasoning - look over there! It's a monkey!
Ali | March 8, 2008, 2:36pm | #
Why would a person living in SF own land in Casper? What, summer vacation?edna | March 8, 2008, 2:43pm | #
i'm unfamiliar with this word "vacation" that you use. is that arabic?it's a leftover from an ex-spouse's family. i don't exactly visit it very often. ;-)
Ali | March 8, 2008, 2:53pm | #
i'm unfamiliar with this word "vacation" that you use.Right now, I am unfamiliar with the word "summer" itself.
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 2:54pm | #
And I don't quite get the word "word".Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 3:06pm | #
Can domeone define "degine"?Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 3:06pm | #
Or "domeone"?BakedPenguin | March 8, 2008, 3:11pm | #
i'm still trying to figure out my adrian belew number.The father of a girl I knew in high school was an engineer for Frank Zappa. So I guess my Belew number would be 3.
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 3:29pm | #
Domeone - a person with a round-shaped head such as Charlie Brown or Oblio.Degine - to remove the gin from, as in a drink; often completed by the use of a chemical process
Obama wins Wyoming about 60-40, and nets 3 delegates, although the third won't be officially elected until the state convention in May.
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 3:44pm | #
joe, you're a Democrat, right? Who do you think will get their nomination?Cesar | March 8, 2008, 3:50pm | #
Obama wins Wyoming about 60-40In related news, the Pope is a Catholic.
brotherben | March 8, 2008, 3:57pm | #
Edna,wyoming is a wonderland full of oil, natural gas and many valuable minerals. You might want to look into the rights you have with the property. If you gained great wealth your bacon-belew numbers might rise dramatically. hehehe
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 4:04pm | #
Cesar:In related news, the Pope is a Catholic.I was expecting that from my line:
"joe, you're a Democrat, right?"
joe | March 8, 2008, 4:05pm | #
In related news, the Pope is a Catholic....and Hillary wins Texas.
Oops, I mean, not really. Bad example.
joe | March 8, 2008, 4:10pm | #
Someone,I think Obama will win, unless something dramatic changes.
After Super Tuesday, Obama needed a series of big wins from then until March 4, and he got them.
The Hillary needed a big win that day to pull back to even, and she didn't get it. It's arguable whether she got any win at all in Texas, since she ended up losing the delegates there.
The March 4 contests were supposed to be her firewall - two big states that were supposed to be safe for her - and she ended up gaining a number of delegates that will end up being wiped out, probably, just by Wyoming and Mississippi.
Ali | March 8, 2008, 4:11pm | #
Screw this.Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 4:11pm | #
By Wyoming and Mississippi? That's pathetic.Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 4:15pm | #
Ali, don't pay any attention to people whose names are followed by "Congressman". They're morons.Name one time Obama won big in a large state that was Clinton's turf.
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 4:19pm | #
joe: Oh yeah I forgot. And neither do what...um...Washington, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, Hawaii, Alaska, Washington DC, Illinois, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, Vermont, Maine, Connecticut, Louisiana, Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Alabama, Georgia or South Carolina, right?
I can see why. Those states suck.
Obama won't win the nomination for the same reason Reagan didn't in 1976. Its really difficult to run against entrenched power, and Hillary is as close to an incumbent as possible without actually being one.
alan | March 8, 2008, 4:21pm | #
Admit it, you know if yours is one of the uglt states. ;-)The area East of Raleigh and West of the Coastline is pretty much an uglification zone due to the pig farmers. These farmers also lean heavily democratic. Not the progressive ideologues or moderate DNC types you may be imagining but backasswards hand out seeking agrarians who haven't changed at all since 1933 in lifestyle or attitude, and pretty much do whatever they can to drag the rest of the state down.
Fortunately, I live in a heavenly abode to the west of shitzland that is half industrial park, half college town.
J sub D | March 8, 2008, 4:22pm | #
Screw this.Somebody remind me why the GOP is more libertarian leaning than the Dems. Wastes of oxygen like this coprolite spewing retard from Iowa, are enough to cast my ballot for [gaspo!] Hillary. Well Mr Straight-Talk, get those gums flapping.
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 4:22pm | #
Cesar, it isn't a state, but maybe Washington DC? She has lived there for the past sixteen years.Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 4:23pm | #
J sub D, I haven't seen much reason to think of the Republicans as even vaguely libertarian for a while.Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 4:24pm | #
By the way Cesar, I do think the Obama '08 = Reagan '76 might be a pretty valid comparison. I don't know, though, he might win the first go round. If not, he'll probably win four years later from McCain.J sub D | March 8, 2008, 4:25pm | #
Washington, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, Hawaii, Alaska, Washington DC, Illinois, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, Vermont, Maine, Connecticut, Louisiana, Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Alabama, Georgia or South Carolina, right?I can see why. Those states suck.
Hey fella, I kinda like Vermont.
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 4:26pm | #
Cesar: Yeah it is, but that's as close as I could come. Obama hasn't won any of Clinton's home turf states big, but on that front she hasn't won any of his home turf states at all, unless I'm mistaken somewhow. In fact, she hasn't really won any states big except Arkansas.brotherben, in that area, the big thing which is mined is the stuff they make kitty litter from. hardly worth it. i'm counting on the big lottery win to allow me to meet belew.
Ali | March 8, 2008, 4:27pm | #
How the hell can the GOP ever be libertarian? May be for something like 5 years in the 19th century. Otherwise it is all just talk. They are Tories for goodness sake! I want them Whigs back!Cesar | March 8, 2008, 4:27pm | #
In fact, she hasn't really won any states big except Arkansas.Uh, theres California, New York, Ohio, Massachusetts, New Jersey....
The last libertarian GOP President was Coolidge. Well, he was the last from either party really.
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 4:32pm | #
Obama's won 13 states with margins of 30% or more, and 6 with margins of 20-30%.Clinton has won 1 state (Arkansas) with a margin of 30% or more and 1 more (Oklahoma) with a margin of 20-30%
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 4:33pm | #
Ali: yeah at least in the UK they have a third (libertarian) party ... even if it is small and feeble and they can't remember the last time they used it.joe | March 8, 2008, 4:36pm | #
Name one time Obama won big in a large state that was Clinton's turf.That's tough to do, Cesar, because Clinton's turf keeps shrinking.
Big states that, at one time, Hillary had a 20+ point lead in the polls that Obama ended up winning: Virginian,Washington, Missouri, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Georgia...that's just off the top of my head.
Your turn, now. Name a big state that was Obama's turf that Hillary won.
Ali | March 8, 2008, 4:37pm | #
Someone- You mean these people? they kinda remind me of our own LP, except that ours look slightly better, only slightly.joe | March 8, 2008, 4:37pm | #
Obama won't win the nomination for the same reason Reagan didn't in 1976. Its really difficult to run against entrenched power, and Hillary is as close to an incumbent as possible without actually being one.'
That's what you said about Iowa. And Super Tuesday.
Cesar | March 8, 2008, 4:40pm | #
Your turn, now. Name a big state that was Obama's turf that Hillary won.Massachusetts.
Ali | March 8, 2008, 4:41pm | #
Hey fella, I kinda like Vermont.I tried to go to Vermont (the link), except that Vermont was forbidden. The real one is not, though. Was just there two days ago, and plan on going back tomorrow.
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 4:42pm | #
Ali - no I mean their Liberal Party. It's still sort of a major party and it's at least kind of what we think of as Libertarian here in the states.joe | March 8, 2008, 4:42pm | #
Nope, not Obama's turf.Here, Cesar, some data instead of feelings;
The "big state" myth
by kos
Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 01:24:47 PM PST
2 voted but there was no campaign: MI and FL
5 haven't voted yet: TX, OH, PA, IN, and NC
5 have voted for Obama: IL, WA, MO, VA, and GA
and 5 have voted for Clinton: CA, NY, NJ, MA, and TN
The whole "Big State" thing is a myth.
Yeah, there's some stupid spin floating around (from all sides) this cycle, but this is probably the dumbest. And it's compounded by people who either wilfully disregard reality or simply don't know better by saying "Obama can't win big swing states."
Of those "big states" that already had real contests, the only ones that are "swing" states are Washington, Missouri and Virginia. And Obama won all three of those, two of them by massive margins.
Update: For this discussion, "big state" is defined as the 17 states with more than 10 EVs.
If you want to make it above 11, then you take out WA (Obama), IN (tbd), and Tennessee (Clinton), so it's a wash. Make the cutoff above 12, then you lose MA (Clinton), so Clinton is down one. Make it above 13, and Virginia is out (Obama), so it's even again. And so on. "More than 10" is as good a cutoff as any.
Cesar | March 8, 2008, 4:44pm | #
Nope, not Obama's turf.A Northeastern, liberal, state full of college towns where he had the backing of the sitting Governor and both sitting Senators? Not his turf? Really?
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | March 8, 2008, 4:44pm | #
Cesar, yeah Super Tuesday wasn't a big Obama victory, but everything between Super Tuesday and March 4th was pretty big for Obama.