How to Buy a Straw Poll

Republicans held a straw poll in Vinoy Park, FL, down the road from the YouTube debate, and around 500 Ron Paul backers showed up to support their man. Yet Mitt Romney won the poll handily, with 893 votes out of 1539 cast... at event that drew around 1000 people. How'd he do it?

"I voted 20 times," Derek Gyongzois, 38, of St. Petersburg exclaimed after casting ballots.

He said he works as a volunteer for the Romney campaign (and begged a reporter not to print his 20-vote tally). Did he buy the tickets?

"I don't have that kind of money," Gyongzois said.

He wasn't the only person voting more than once. Paul supporter Mike Wagner, 57, of St. Petersburg: "This thing is rigged."

Some Paul people bought multiple tickets, too, according to the report. But a campaign paying $400 to one person, and maybe more than $10,000 overall, just to spite the Paul people? Given that it led to the sleazy scene captured by YouTuber geo2525t , I don't know if it was worth it. Watch the volunteers with Romney stickers vote, remove their voting cards from the machines, insert another card, vote, and repeat. (Geo2525t has another video here.)

Comments

sixstring | November 30, 2007, 2:48pm | #

That this could happen in Florida is just shocking!

Taktix® | November 30, 2007, 2:56pm | #

(and begged a reporter not to print his 20-vote tally)

This looks to be a poor job on the part of the reporter. Not that the reporter ran the 20-vote thing, but that the reporter didn't play along and get more info from the willing stooge...

Fluffy | November 30, 2007, 2:56pm | #

It's a fund raiser.

I don't have a problem with it. And I hate Romney.

Guy Montag | November 30, 2007, 2:57pm | #

Democrats are voting in a Republican primary? No wonder VA tried to head them off at the pass (with a really dumb method).

breaking news | November 30, 2007, 3:04pm | #

A guy with a bomb is in one of Hillary's campaign offices in new hampshire according to drudge

frank | November 30, 2007, 3:06pm | #

Is this type of cheating illegal in any way? Can someone press charges of some sort?

Taktix® | November 30, 2007, 3:11pm | #

A guy with a bomb is in one of Hillary's campaign offices in new hampshire according to drudge

It's probably the Mooninites again...

Luther | November 30, 2007, 3:15pm | #

It's surely not illegal what Romney did, but it is extremely embarrassing, the kind of thing that should kill a campaign. Unfortunately the corporate media won't say a word about it, so most people will never know.

MattXIV | November 30, 2007, 3:16pm | #

Given the more or less useless nature of straw polls in the first place, it's hard to get worked up about this. They're the meatspace equivalent of the non-IP logging internet poll.

Luther | November 30, 2007, 3:16pm | #

Who knows how many other straw polls Romney has bought?

Brad | November 30, 2007, 3:17pm | #

Crazy Stuff That People Will Do.

Ron Paul Rocks !!!

BakedPenguin | November 30, 2007, 3:17pm | #

Hilarious - the SP Times article has a bunch of pissed Paul supporters on the thread.

Dangerman | November 30, 2007, 3:18pm | #

I'm in NH. I heard in on the news an hour ago.

2 Hostages, maybe a bomb. Here is what I wrote on another forum...

Actually, I was thinking *dons tin foil hat* that he was a paid operative of the Romniani campaign who would take hostages with a pocket full of Ron Paul stickers and 9/11 Truther propaganda.

sage | November 30, 2007, 3:22pm | #

The story about Romney was dugg earlier today, so I don't think it will be under the radar despite the MSM ignoring it.

Fluffy | November 30, 2007, 3:32pm | #

I think the guy with the bomb is Dondero. He wants Hillary to concede to Giuliani without waiting for the election.

ed | November 30, 2007, 3:34pm | #

Repeat after me: Straw polls are meaningless.

Robert Werden | November 30, 2007, 3:36pm | #

For Romney to blow his money on a stupid straw poll shows how loose he will be with the tax payers money. BOOOOOOOO

de stijl | November 30, 2007, 3:37pm | #

When Romney buys a straw poll it stays bought, by God!

Matt | November 30, 2007, 3:38pm | #

Meanwhile, the righty blogosphere is up in arms over the sleazy and unfair tactics of... CNN

Dangerman | November 30, 2007, 3:38pm | #

Hostages have been freed, according to liberal traitor terrorist sympathizer NHPR.

sage | November 30, 2007, 3:40pm | #

As president Romney would triple the number of straw polls bought.

Andy | November 30, 2007, 4:00pm | #

Although not illegal, it should tell everyone what sort or man is running and staff he surrounds himself with. The money for the votes came from somewhere. This is exactly the sort of shenanigans that voting Americans are sick and tired off. This reminds me of some of the stuff you hear about going in Banana republics - or is that what we have become now - with our subprime mortgages, corrupt media, housing collapse, manufacturing collapse, patriot act, FEMA...I could go on and on but I am not. Vote Dr. Paul and stop the ROT!

J sub D | November 30, 2007, 4:01pm | #

@ hostages released. elderly man. known mental problems. not a big deal, it appears.

J sub D | November 30, 2007, 4:03pm | #

make that 2 hostages realeased. Itchy shift finger, y'know.

David McElroy | November 30, 2007, 4:09pm | #

Why does anybody even care about straw polls? They are completely meaningless.

Ken Shultz | November 30, 2007, 4:10pm | #

Stuffing the ballot box is almost as old an American tradition as elections themselves.

...as is denouncing those who stuff the ballot box. Really, it's like turkey and pumpkin pie.

steve | November 30, 2007, 4:11pm | #

What this shows is how he is spending campaign cash which is legal for it supports and promotes his campaign.

Romney is a discrace to even allow people to be part of this so think of what kind of president he would make.

I am actually starting to like Ron Paul and i think i am going to send him some money and probably my vote in the primary.

Craig | November 30, 2007, 4:12pm | #

Ron Paul has done quite well in straw polls, without buying them:

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/straw-poll-results/

It makes you wonder about the political "experts" who question whether Ron Paul's well-organized, numerous, and highly motivated volunteer base will "translate into votes" -- it looks like it already has, on numerous occasions.

The bigger question is will Rudy Giuliani's support in random telephone surveys of people who probably can't even name half the candidates translate into votes....

Douglas Gray | November 30, 2007, 4:21pm | #

The scariest thing is that we have people in this country who think that buying multiple tickets to stuff a straw poll ballot box is a good use of their time and money. They need to get a life.

Boss Tweed | November 30, 2007, 4:21pm | #

Stuffing the ballot box is almost as old an American tradition as elections themselves.

Indeed!

Skip | November 30, 2007, 4:25pm | #

"He wasn't the only person voting more than once. Paul supporter Mike Wagner, 57, of St. Petersburg: "This thing is rigged.""

I'll take private rigged straw pole over nationally televised rigged CNN debate anytime. Is this the best counter-punch you've got Weigel?

But then, CNN shot itself in both the head and groin -- losing so much blood, that I suspect it won't really matter now anyway.

Brandybuck | November 30, 2007, 4:27pm | #

How long before the conspiracists claim this is PROOF that the primaries are going to be rigged against Ron Paul?

sixstring | November 30, 2007, 4:31pm | #

A guy with a bomb is in one of Hillary's campaign offices in new hampshire according to drudge

Whoops! Wrong door. You did say Obomba, right?

Joel | November 30, 2007, 4:39pm | #

This is PROOF that the primaries are going to be rigged against Ron Paul! It's a conspiracy!

BakedPenguin | November 30, 2007, 4:52pm | #

Brandybuck - 12 minutes.

sem. | November 30, 2007, 4:57pm | #

Straw polls are not proper polls and were never meant to be. They were fund raisers for the Republican Party. In Iowa Ron Paul bought tickets to allow people to vote on his behalf and gave them away as well. That some Paul voters are in weepy hysterics and acting outraged is a double standard. Paul voters could do it and have done it as well. But the Paulists are notorious with their doublestandards. Earmarks by other candidates is bad news -- but when Paul does it they can be justified.

rho | November 30, 2007, 5:24pm | #

There's a difference between buying tickets and giving one to each Paul supporter and buying 30 tickets for each Romney supporter. I'm guessing sem. can't figure that out.

That said, it's not that big a deal. Romney bought the Iowa straw poll too with all of his busses and whatnot. It's how the local Party apparatus raises money. I'd let Rich Uncle Romney finance my political party shindigs, too, were I in charge.

It does look dodgy, though.

Jamie Kelly | November 30, 2007, 5:27pm | #

In the latest straw poll, 38 percent said they wanted to be made into a broom, while 57 percent wanted to be a basket.
5 percent were undecided.

jimmy | November 30, 2007, 5:33pm | #

this is reminiscent of the weak logic behind the "when clinton lied, nobody died" bumper stickers. paul cheated, but romney cheated worse, so ron paul is awesome? either they are both cheaters, or else straw polls are pointless and meaningless, or both. but what can not logically follow is "cheating is not cheating if ron paul does it." except in the fantasy land of h&r, apparently.

J sub D | November 30, 2007, 5:40pm | #

Stuffing the ballot box is almost as old an American tradition as elections themselves.

Indeed!

Boss, I read a biography about you earlier this year. I'll give you credit for ballsy, no apologies, voting fraud. Machine politics hasn't been the same without you.

Michael | November 30, 2007, 6:13pm | #

But the Paulists are notorious with their doublestandards.

Care to elaborate?

passing condor | November 30, 2007, 6:33pm | #

In the latest straw poll, 38 percent said they wanted to be made into a broom, while 57 percent wanted to be a basket.
5 percent were undecided.

How many said they'd rather be a hammer than a nail?

Michael Toth | November 30, 2007, 6:40pm | #

As a Ron Paul supporter I can't say straw polls are meaningless. We brag when Paul wins. You and I know they can be bought but sheeple don't and when they hear Mitt won they're happy because the man the media is pushing on them won. Now they don't have to think and they will mindlessly vote for whom they been told to. We need to wake them up and have them do what every good american should do and find out for themselves who is the best candidate for the job. I'm sure that most who do the research will find that it is Ron Paul.
We know he's the best, now convince the rest.
P.S. To the Michael before me, go pound sand up your ......

Michael | November 30, 2007, 6:58pm | #

Hey man, I didn't say it, sem. did. I left quotation marks off, though. I wanted to know what this person meant by their comments. I don't know to which double standards he/she was referring.

crimethink | November 30, 2007, 7:47pm | #

I think jimmy is just a strawman.

ed | November 30, 2007, 8:28pm | #

As a Ron Paul supporter I can't say straw polls are meaningless.

Yes you can. It just takes a little courage. Maybe a swig (or five) of strong drink. Nothing like alcohol to spark that oddly lucid yet fleeting coherence that comes with artificial stimulation. Write it all down before you forget it. It was all a wonderful dream, but now it's time to get back to work and face your miserable future.

Happy to be of help. Buh-bye!

Kurt | December 1, 2007, 11:29am | #

This whole episode climaxed with a physical threat to one of the Ron Paul supporters who organized grassroots attendance at the event. It's a very sad and frustrating story. I highly recommend watching the video linked from Digg below.

http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Corruption_at_a_Florida_Straw_Poll_Romney_Supporters_vote_10_times_each

Bill Woolsey | December 1, 2007, 11:36am | #

Straw polls are suppossed to measure organizational ability. Campaigns that want to compete, identify supporters and get them to show up at the staw poll. It is also usual for the campaigns to pay any costs for their supporters to participate.

Meetups have formed a good bit of the organization of the Paul campaign. Someone finds out about a straw poll, and the call goes out for Paul supporters to show up. Efforts are made to get the campaign to pay for the tickets. Sometimes the campaign does.

Paul supporters show up, and generally do pretty well.

The local long-time Republican activists show up as usual, but a bunch of Ron Paul supporters show up and sometimes swamp the others, and other times make up a significant minority.

Sometimes another campaign makes an effort as well. They buy tickets and try to get supporters to show up.

The Paul campaign shows that in much of the country, it is competitive with the other campaigns in this way. And they are doing it across much more of the country more often than anyone else.

Most staw polls only allow each person attending to vote only once. This campaign
was unusual in that they let people vote multiple times, and the Romney people used this to win.

According the the report in the paper, about 500 Paul supporters attended and Paul received 534 votes. It also said that Paul supporters were voting multiple times before rain ended the BBQ.

So, some Paul supporters showed bad judgement. Romney is "cheating" and winning. We will do it to. Well, they didn't win. And they apparently didn't do too much cheating. (Only 34 extra votes.)

The other campaigns apparently made no real effort here, and when you add up their support (probably local party regulars), it suggests that Paul won in terms of getting his supporters to show up.

It is an embarrassment for the Romney campaign. And it is sad that the Paul supporters who voted more than once (maybe
34 of the 500 bought another ticket and voted
again because Romney is doing it?) showed
poor judgement.

But it looks worse for Romney.

Edward | December 1, 2007, 4:18pm | #

Top ten reasons Ron Paul won’t win the nomination for anything except Kook of the Month:

1. There aren’t enough Nazis voting in the primaries
2. Dimwits who think there’s a “war on religion” have already formed their own cults.
3. He has Tancredo’s position on immigration but not Tancredo’s charm.
4. He makes Bush look charismatic
5. If he receives a donation from Osama Bin Laden—and he might—he will refuse to give it back.
6. He looks like an aged Alfred E. Newman.
7. People tend to go into shock on learning about his positions.
8. Most of his supporters couldn’t grab their asses with both hands, much less remember voting day.
9. Aliens have abducted most of his staff and replaced them with alien look-alikes.
10. The liberal-controlled press will never let him win. Never!

ed | December 1, 2007, 9:23pm | #

Who says retards can't count to ten?

Edward | December 1, 2007, 9:50pm | #

11. Ron Paul supporters are too witless to come up with a good insult.

Edward | December 1, 2007, 10:12pm | #

Possible conspiracy theories to explain Ron Paul's defeat:

1. Zionists paid the Nazis to suport him.
2. Atheists removed all references to God from the Constitution.
3. The federal government pushed daylight savings time knowing full well that many libertarians would refuse to reset their clocks and fail to vote on time.
4. ?
5. ?

the innominate one | December 2, 2007, 2:56am | #

I could have sworn that edward declared that he would stop posting here.

I call on the power of mighty Urkobold™ to cast out the lesser troll edward and exorcise him from this blog thread!

The power of Urkobold™ compels you!


The power of Urkobold™ compels you!


The power of Urkobold™ compels you!

Edward | December 2, 2007, 10:50am | #

Possible headlines

Pundits shocked that quirky long-shot anti-war Republican candidate with Nazi backing fails to capture nomination

With ust under 2% of the vote, Ron Paul backers refuse to concede defeat

Ron Paul to choose the late Aaron Russo as running mate

Edward | December 2, 2007, 11:29am | #

Ron Paul's appearance on CNN's Late Edition raises suspicions among Paulistas that the mainstream media are intent on undermining their candidate with media exposure.
"It's a no brainer," said a Ron Paul activist. "The more people know he's running, the more they attack him. The liberal meadia are vicious."

Edward | December 2, 2007, 3:38pm | #

From the lunatic religious right:

The ultimate goal of the anti-religious elites is to transform America into a completely secular nation, a nation that is legally and culturally biased against Christianity.

Pat Robertson? Nope, Ron Paul "The War Against religion"

Kevin | December 3, 2007, 2:02pm | #

Remember we need Romney in the race. The more candidates, the further spaced out the votes, and the lower percentage Paul needs to win.

Edward | December 3, 2007, 2:40pm | #

Kevin

Ron Paul won't win even if all the other candidates die in accidents.

Kevin | December 3, 2007, 3:10pm | #

Edward:

Even if Ron Paul does not win the presidential election, at least he restored my faith in humanity.

Kevin

Elaine McKillop, Esq. | December 7, 2007, 12:20pm | #

Romney is an unethical cheat, with a lying son who announced on his blog that his father won the straw poll in St Pete after he rallied the crowd, but what is worse is that he cheats with the assistance of the Republican party. I do not believe that he has won any straw polls legitimately. I never see any Romney signs or supporters at Republican event other than his family and staff. The issue that should enrage everyone regardless of who you support is the integrity of the vote in this election. let the victor be the real choice of the people. Expose the cheaters, clean up the process and lets start a national crusade to have an accurate count.