New at Reason
Steve Chapman fails to get on board the surge optimism bandwagon—maybe because he paid too much attention to the first dozen bandwagons.
Comments to "New at Reason":
The Iraq story has become incredibly boring. Nothing ever changes. Did anyone really care what General whatshisname had to say?
The Artist Formerly Know as Travis | September 13, 2007, 7:53am | #
Anyone remember Mission AcomplishedI am very fatigued with the debate over Iraq, and I am tired of my country being so polarized.
rho | September 13, 2007, 8:25am | #
I am very fatigued with the debate over Iraq, and I am tired of my country being so polarized.Just wait for January 2009. When Hillary is sworn in, the sound of flip-flopping will be deafening. I just hope Hannity doesn't kill anybody when he makes his U-Turn.
Taktix® | September 13, 2007, 8:34am | #
I have a poll going on how long Hilary will be in office before the GOP starts blaming Iraq on the Democrats.I'm putting my $$$ on two weeks.
Any takers?
The Artist Formerly Know as Travis | September 13, 2007, 8:38am | #
"Just wait for January 2009. When Hillary is sworn in"I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
BakedPenguin | September 13, 2007, 8:45am | #
Taktix: Are you sure you didn't mean "I have a poll going on how long Hilary will be in office before the GOP starts blaming failure in Iraq on the Democrats."The Artist Formerly Know as Travis | September 13, 2007, 8:49am | #
There is something very erotic about a woman with power, and nice pasty kankles.Can we call her Billerly ?
Marc | September 13, 2007, 8:54am | #
The generals who disagreed were forced out.Taktix® | September 13, 2007, 9:11am | #
BakedPenguin,Taktix: Are you sure you didn't mean "I have a poll going on how long Hilary will be in office before the GOP starts blaming failure in Iraq on the Democrats."
At this point, I would posit that "failure" is implicit when assigning "blame for Iraq," but fair enough.
However, the GOP will likely bring up the ghost of the male Clinton Presidency as justification for assigning blame to Hilary.
Come to think of it, the GOP might try to pin failure in Iraq to Hilary after the primaries.
They'll say something like "Bill Clinton's ineptitude forced Bush's hand" or something. Mighty Zeus, I don't think I can handle another election season...
NOTE: I am in no way a fan of HRC. Like many others, I was looking for apartments in New Zealand yesterday.
Warren | September 13, 2007, 9:13am | #
"Where are the generals who told Americans when things were about to get worse in Iraq, as they have over and over?"Good question. I don't know the answer, but the phrase "way off the mark" springs to mind. What ever happened to that guy?
joe | September 13, 2007, 9:18am | #
Is it still called polarization when one side has such a lopsided majority?The only place the happy talk is making any difference anymore is in Washington.
The Artist Formerly Know as Travis | September 13, 2007, 9:21am | #
"Is it still called polarization when one side has such a lopsided majority?"Good point.
Reinmoose | September 13, 2007, 9:22am | #
I'm not fatigued of my country being so polarized. I AM fatigued by so many witless warmongerers playing their equally witless bases for saps.The whole thing is just really embarassing.
Hopefully the difference in strategy is changing things. More casualties isn't necessarily a bad thing if our new offensive shows the citizenry we're finally serious about winning. Had we fought the war like we were at war from the beginning things might not have been as bad.
J sub D | September 13, 2007, 9:36am | #
Had we fought the war like we were at war from the beginning things might not have been as bad.But we didn't. I submit that if the U.S. military had done what was necessary to pacify and then unify Iraq, the U.S. citizenry would never have stood for it. GWB got us into a no win situation and still won't admit it. It take a big man to admit when he's wrong. That says a lot about the president in my mind.
Full disclosure, I voted for him in 2000. Not 2004.
x,y | September 13, 2007, 9:38am | #
Has anyone been reading NRO on a regular basis? The main page is effectively just war propoganda. And bad too.DannyK | September 13, 2007, 9:40am | #
It seems pretty obvious that Rule #1 is "Keep this thing going until January 09." They'll provide as many trivial concessions, hearings, and dog-and-pony-shows as necessary to achieve that goal.Does al-Qaida think killing Sunni leaders is going to endear Iraqis to the jihad? Their brutal tactics are backfiring and the possibility of al-Quida ever wielding power in Iraq is slipping fast. Soon, we'll be able to focus exclusively on the radical Shiites.
Jimmy Stewart | September 13, 2007, 9:47am | #
why, thank you, joe.[whisper whisper]
oh. well, gosh darn it. "shock and awe", not "aw shucks".
/soft whirring sound as scooter backs away
joe | September 13, 2007, 9:47am | #
There has never been a possibility of al Qaeda weilding power in Iraq. The American occupation was the only glue holding together the Iraqi Sunnis and the foreign jihadists. Once that occupation ended, the al Qaedists became hunted men.You're just realizing that now; I've been telling you that would happen for three years.
James, do you remember what the US military did just before the Anbar insurgency turned their guns on al Qaeda?
They left Anbar, that's what.
TrickyVic | September 13, 2007, 9:55am | #
""" have a poll going on how long Hilary will be in office before the GOP starts blaming Iraq on the Democrats.I'm putting my $$$ on two weeks."""
I'll give it 4 weeks.
BakedPenguin | September 13, 2007, 10:12am | #
Taktix - I think you're right about the blame game, but I think they'll be cagey enough to wait until the public has other reasons to loathe Hillary before they try that. As dumb as the american electorate can be, I don't think the pissed anti-Iraq 65% will forget the last eight years right after the election.It'll take at least four months.
4 weeks? Are you kidding me? Hillary will be blamed as soon as she is elected. Well before she takes office. Possibly before election night. Come on, people. The clock is ticking. The hawks don’t have a lot of time to spare before scapegoating.
joe | September 13, 2007, 10:16am | #
Hillary will be blamed before she was elected.These people have already made it quite clear what they think of debate and the democratic process during wartime. If Congressmen talking about what disposition of our forces best protects our national interest causes the death of American troops, a presidential candidate doing the same thing might as well set off the suitcase nuke herself.
ChrisO | September 13, 2007, 10:49am | #
I have a poll going on how long Hilary will be in office before the GOP starts blaming Iraq on the Democrats.What else would you expect them to do? The job of Republican and Democratic officeholders alike to get elected and stay that way. You don't do that by blaming yourself for anything. Maybe I'm cynical, but I view partisan politics as a form of Kabuki badly in need of more makeup.
BakedPenguin | September 13, 2007, 11:01am | #
...I view partisan politics as a form of Kabuki badly in need of more makeup.Considering how annoying it is to listen to, perhaps Noh might be a better referent.
JBinMO | September 13, 2007, 11:34am | #
"I have a poll going on how long Hilary will be in office before the GOP starts blaming Iraq on the Democrats.I'm putting my $$$ on two weeks.
Any takers?"
What makes you think they will wait till she takes office?
rho | September 13, 2007, 12:02pm | #
Has anyone been reading NRO on a regular basis? The main page is effectively just war propoganda. And bad too.I used to read The Corner, but it basically became Kathryn Jean Lopez's Uninterrupted Stream of Blither™, so I stopped.
I'm curious, though: which war is the propaganda for? The current one in Iraq, or the future one with Iran? Mix of both?
jimmy smith | September 13, 2007, 12:37pm | #
We get the politicians we pay for, good and hard.One wolf, two sheep. What's the last good administration anyone can remember? I'm 70 years old, must be before my time.TrickyVIc | September 13, 2007, 12:46pm | #
"""We get the politicians we pay for,"""Sarcasm?
They have been getting raises but the quality has not improved.
""What's the last good administration anyone can remember? I'm 70 years old, must be before my time.""
Probably was, if a good administration ever existed.
ChrisO | September 13, 2007, 12:47pm | #
We get the politicians we pay for, good and hard.One wolf, two sheep. What's the last good administration anyone can remember? I'm 70 years old, must be before my time.The Coolidge Administration seems pretty enlightened, in retrospect.
herodotus | September 13, 2007, 4:38pm | #
What is with this site? It's like it has been taken over by the anti-war movement.And the anti-war people here are every bit as ideologically intolerant and ahistorical as the most hysterical of left-wingers.
No wonder libertarians are so marginal in American politics.
Brian Courts | September 13, 2007, 4:56pm | #
No wonder libertarians are so marginal in American politics.Drink!
joe | September 13, 2007, 6:00pm | #
The country has been taken over by the anti-war movement, h.You want to know who's marginal in American politics?
Iraq War apologists.
UCrawford | September 13, 2007, 7:47pm | #
Actually, the Chairman of the Joint Chief GEN Eric Shinseki said before the war that we'd need around 300,000 people to accomplish this war effectively, which contradicted the Bush administration's opinion.In gratitude for his honest opinion, Donald Rumsfeld publicly humiliated him, then forced him out. The other generals learned to keep their mouths shut after that.
Douglas Gray | September 13, 2007, 11:26pm | #
Dear UC:Petraeus saw what happened to Shinseki.
It's very sad, the Commander-in-chief and Rumsfeld are the incompetent ones who should have been fired. Rummy's out, but were still stuck with a dumb guy. We're all sick of it.
Who says were getting out? No, seriously... which front runner says we are leaving Iraq and the AREA? 60,000 more or less to remain in the area. people talk about no debate going in... there seems to be no debate about leaving 60,000 there (like, what are they going to be doing...and what Arab country wants to host American raids into Iraq?)