A.M. Links: Syrian Rebels Shoot Down Chopper, Scientists 'Hack' Brain, Taliban Behead Partygoers, Samsung Shares Down, Texas Reconsiders Felony Charges For Prostitutes

  • A government helicopter has been shot down in Damascus. Rebels have taken credit for bringing the chopper down as fighting intensifies in Syria.
  • Samsung shares are down 7 percent on the first day of trading since a California jury ruled in favor of Apple in a recent patent suit. The loss is worth 10 billion euros. 
  • Nineteen people have been beheaded in Afghanistan by the Taliban for attending a mix-gender party.
  • Iran is urging other members of the Non-Aligned Movement to oppose unilateral sanctions by "certain states". 
  • A web comic has raised over $1 million for a Tesla Museum. New York’s state government will match funds raised by the campaign to "build a goddamn Tesla Museum." 

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  • Lord Humungus||

    Ron Paul’s Swan Song
    http://www.nationalreview.com/.....costa?pg=1

    Sitting in the back, at a table in the press pen watching it all was Brian Doherty, a writer for Reason magazine and a Paul biographer. “It’s a confusing time for the movement,” he said. “A lot of people here feel alienated; they feel like they played the GOP game, and became delegates, only to see the rules changed at the last minute. When Paul began to run again last year, there were high expectations, and I think many supporters were disappointed that it’s ending like this,” with the movement a “faction of the party, not dominating it.”

    Nevertheless, Doherty — who first saw Paul speak in 1988 when he was running the libertarian student group at the University of Florida — says there is much for libertarians to be happy about in Tampa. “Paul is not speaking at the actual convention, but this is a long game, and what he has fought for will continue to be important,” he said. “The open question is what’s next, and I don’t think the answer right now is clear.”
  • ||

    They postponed the convention here in Tampa for nothing. Stupid media had hyped it up so much that everyone wet their pants and begged the the RNC and the mayor to postpone the event. It's 9:24am and it's not even raining in downtown Tampa. Everyone was so freaked out that they stayed home. I never got to work so fast (I'm 2 blocks from the forum and and convention center). Driving in here this morning one of the reporters on NPR was claiming that it was pouring buckets and that there were 40mph winds...WTF.

  • RBS||

    Well, now they've moved on to this storm being the next Katrina.

  • Skip||

    As a Pinellas County resident, these hurricane warnings are almost always dumb hype.

  • R C Dean||

    Were the airline schedules bollixed up at all the last few days?

    That's the only justification I can see for delaying the convention. We've known for a couple days that Tampa wasn't going to get hit all that hard.

  • ||

    Were the airline schedules bollixed up at all the last few days?

    Not that I'm aware of...Over the course of last week on through the weekend there have been no reported delays. Unless they were all scheduled to fly in today I don't see how flight delays would affect things.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I can't figure it out. All the government stuff is closed, they postpone the convention, but we were pretty sure the thing was giving us a miss days ago. Weird.

    It's drizzly, and I suspect we'll have some strong storm bands, with rain and wind, but what else is new? It's summer in Florida.

  • John||

    Naomi Wolf shocks publishing world and writes a book about her vagina.

    http://althouse.blogspot.com/2.....le-my.html

  • Randian||

    Is it called While My Vagina Gently Weeps?

  • db||

    That conjures images of...yuck.

  • JW||

    It's hard to mock something self-parodying.

  • ||

    It's called "Vagina: A New Biography."

    I'm more interested in "Vagina: An Unauthorised Biography." Imagine the sordid revelations!

  • John||

    Her vagina probably writes a better sentence and it has to have a better sense of humor.

  • Drax the Destroyer||

    It also houses several dozen bats.

  • Restoras||

    Yes and I bet it's a "dry" sense of humor.

  • John||

    With a lot of sand.

  • Marshall Gill||

    Saw Namoi Wolf on Youtube this weekend. She starts out like she isn't going to freak out but it doesn't last.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyLSstqMvH8

  • Randian||

    Goin' on a year now I ain't had nothin' twixt my nethers weren't run on batteries!
  • ||

    Careful, I hear the trekies are tracking down all the Firefly fans for their planned genocide.

  • Randian||

    Fortunately for me I am both, so I can heal the rift and the oceans will begin to recede.

  • Tim||

    Let that be your last battlefield.

  • tarran||

    So, if you were forced to choose between the horror of the Star Trek Wars or the dolorous Start Wars Trek, which would you choose?

  • ||

    I'd choose the Futurama Renaissance on Comedy Central.

  • Brett L||

    By "renaissance" you mean "shadow of its former self", right?

  • ||

    I was thinking more along the lines of bastardized remake of Fox leftovers but you get the idea.

  • ||

    "Vagina: An Unauthorised Biography."

    Sounds like literary rape.

  • Rich||

    "I first became aware of it, Mandrake during the physical act of love.... Yes, a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily, I was able to interpret these feelings correctly."

  • Tim||

    Maude Lebowski: Do you like sex, Mr. Lebowski?
    The Dude: 'Scuse me?
    Maude Lebowski: Sex. The physical act of love. Coitus. Do you like it?
    The Dude: I was talking about my rug.
    Maude Lebowski: You're not interested in sex?
    The Dude: You mean coitus?

  • ||

    Charlie Dick: Son of a bitch. You must think that thing between your legs is lined with gold. I can get tail any time I want, I don't have to come crawling after some mean mouthed woman who got a cob crossways. Hell, if I just want to bump uglies with somebody, I got plenty of places to go for that.

    Patsy Cline: [laughing] Bump uglies?

    Charlie Dick: That's right.

    Patsy Cline: My lord Charlie, what a charming expression.

  • Restoras||

    Great band name.

  • ||

  • DJF||

    But remember you are an evil sexist if you think of women as a collection of female body parts.

  • Skip||

    It stinks!

    The book isn't good either.

  • Enough About Palin||

    "Why do people say "grow some balls"? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really wanna get tough, grow a vagina. Those things take a pounding."

  • Lord Humungus||

    FCC eyes tax on Internet service
    http://thehill.com/blogs/hilli.....et-service

    The FCC could run into legal problems with the Internet Tax Freedom Act, a 1998 law that bans the government from taxing Internet access. But the FCC has long argued that Universal Service is a fee that the providers choose to pass on to consumers and not a tax.

    Turner said it is unlikely that the FCC will make any controversial moves before November's election.
  • Bee Tagger||

    But the FCC has long argued that Universal Service is a fee that the providers choose to pass on to consumers and not a tax.

    If they're intellectually capable of arguing the exact opposite in court, I have a feeling it will go very well for them.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Turner said it is unlikely that the FCC will make any controversial moves before November's election.

    Of course not.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    What's amusing about this development is that Obama's efforts to subsidize high-speed internet access to rural and poor communities has been compared to the New Deal-type rural electrification projects of the 1930s.

    So now that they've increased access with one hand, they want to take money out of these people's pockets with the other hand. A cynical person might think this increase of technological scale is nothing more than a government skimming operation.

  • Bee Tagger||

    Scientists can now ‘hack’ the human brain and retrieve data, including bank details.

    I'm going to be so mad at my brain if it knew where my keys were all along.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    +, um, I forget.

  • Lord Humungus||

    I honestly don't know my bank account number, though I'm sure the amount of sickness that festers in the back corners of my brain would cause an overload.

  • SugarFree||

    Nineteen people have been beheaded in Afghanistan by the Taliban for attending a mix-gender party.

    Sounds like we need to step up drone attacks in Yemen.

  • ||

    No, sounds like you need to improve the drones. Can they behead with one swift, sure, terrible stroke? No? Time for ninja drones

  • AlmightyJB||

    It's stories like this that make me not mind so much that our snipers use these guys for target practice. It's probably more realistic training than just shooting paper so it's a win-win.

  • Drake||

    Who would go to a beheading party?

  • Restoras||

    I read that wrong.

  • aelhues||

    It's stories like this that make me waver between wanting carpet bombing the whole place, and completely open borders here to let those poor people come to a place where they'd be free to mingle and dance if the so wished.

  • Christina||

    If I were Sec. Lucifer Clinton I would create an entire asylum category for women from majority-Muslim countries. One stipulation being that once they're here they can't sponsor any men from home to come over. Create a bit of an Underground Railroad for women.

  • Lord Humungus||

    Both parties are too extreme on abortion
    http://articles.boston.com/201.....-abortions

    You’d never know it from the media’s coverage, but when it comes to abortion there are two political parties with out-of-the-mainstream views. Most Americans are highly ambivalent on the subject, both pro-life and pro-choice. The Republican and Democratic platforms don’t reflect the average American’s opinion in the abortion debate. Neither did the headlines and heavy breathing last week.
  • John||

    No one who is pro choice is ever extreme!!

  • wareagle||

    and as long as they are pro-choice politically, they can actually be abusive, even criminal, in their behavior toward women. See: Kennedy, E; Edwards, J; Clinton, B; et al.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    and as long as they are pro-choice,politically democrats, they can actually be abusive, even criminal, in their behavior toward women. See: Kennedy, E; Edwards, J; Clinton, B; et al.

    FIFY

  • ||

    No kidding, Bob Packwood was pro-choice and see where that got him.

  • np||

  • Randian||

    That will ruin your day. Or make it. I am not sure which.

  • Ptah-Hotep||

    I am going with ruin. I have to go look at a real woman now.

  • Rich||

    Gotta admit, though -- not too bad for a *robot*.

  • Randian||

    See Ptah! For some people that made their day.

  • ||

    Great....Now I'm confused about my sexuality again!

  • Randian||

    Around here we call that 'Tuesday'.

  • ||

    Shit, is it Tuesday already?

  • SugarFree||

    If Monday wants to call itself Tuesday, I think we should support its choice of an identity.

  • tarran||

    And we should fight for its right to have babies.

  • SugarFree||

    Well, at least adopt.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    NSFW.

  • Randian||

    I would be interested to hear why you think so.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    The naked breasts?

  • Brett L||

    On a dude?

  • Randian||

    The naked breasts?

    Didn't watch closely, did you?

  • Auric Demonocles||

    When I was at work and nipples started appearing?

    No.

  • John||

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/.....33211.html

    Jill Abramson denies that NYT is left wing. She sounds like one of those people on the restaurant rescue shows who indignantly tells Robert Irvine that their restaurant isn't failing because the food sucks and the kitchen is dirty. No Jill the fact the Times has lost tens of millions of dollars in stock value and only a certain breed of paranoid, brain dead liberal listen to it anymore is because of all of its balanced reporting.

  • Jerry on the road||

    Look at all those conservative columnists at the NYT: Brooks, Kristol, Douthas.

  • ||

    A “sex meter” scheme, taxing prostitutes €6 a night to work the streets of Bonn has raised more than €35,000 for public coffers in its first year, authorities said this week.

    http://www.thelocal.de/money/20120824-44561.html

  • Randian||

    Well, we do want to see prostitution legalized, right?

  • ||

    A “sex meter” scheme, taxing prostitutes €6 a night to work the streets of Bonn has raised more than €35,000 for public coffers in its first year, authorities said this week.

    So either there are only 16 prostitutes in Bonn or whores don't like baying taxes any more than the rest of us.

  • Lord Humungus||

    Is Canada's New $100 Bill Racist?
    http://www.businessweek.com/ar.....ist#r=read

    The Bank of Canada simply wanted to give its citizens some snazzy new bills that would be more durable and harder to counterfeit. But when it came to the images that would grace the currency’s faces, it was not so simple. First, focus groups felt the draft art on the new $100 bill was racist because it featured an Asian woman looking into a microscope, which they felt reinforced the stereotype that Asians excel in science. Some believed other ethnicities should be represented. The bank eventually released the bill last year, replacing the figure with a Caucasian woman, only to be called out recently by Chinese groups for bending to racism and not representing minorities on currency.
  • John||

    I remember back when Windows 95 came out, the commercial curiously featured only Asian kids. There was a small kerfuffle about how racist it was complete with thumb sucking pieces by male Asian reporters complaining about always being stereotyped as a geek.

  • Tim||

    They should have gone with the MacKenzie brothers.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    Or hockey players

  • Citizen Nothing||

    They got hockey players on the $5. Oh wait. Did I just admit I know that?

  • Rich||

    It would be interesting to see a similar bill with a Black man playing basketball.

  • Tim||

    A picture of a white guy being insensitive.

  • Ptah-Hotep||

    A picture of a white guy being insensitive.

    Is not that what is on most of the US bills?

  • Rich||

    Damn your fast fingers, P-T!

  • Rich||

    Like all the U.S. bills?

  • SugarFree||

    which they felt reinforced the stereotype that Asians excel in science

    What a horrible stereotype. Shit, something like that my lead to jobs and a high economic status.

  • Tim||

    Really, a hundred years ago they'd be pictured doing laundry.

  • SugarFree||

    Cleanliness is also a horrible stereotype.

  • Rich||

    "No tickee, no microscopy."

  • Whiterun Guard||

    Ancient Chinese Secret!

  • LTC(ret) John||

    In the interests of multi-culti, perhaps they could have had an Asian hobo, a black woman looking through a microscope and a gay white lumberjack?

  • mr simple||

    Only if that lumberjack were a woman, you misogynist.

  • RBS||

    Or building railroads.

  • SugarFree||

    Hard-working.

  • Randian||

    Or selling opium.

  • Lord Humungus||

    to white women!

  • SugarFree||

    They-re entrepreneurial, too!

  • Randian||

    Solving crimes?

  • ||

    Very good numba one son.

  • Lord Humungus||

    "Two Wongs Can Make it White"

  • Tim||

    You ain't never gonna be elected Senator with puns like that one. FYI.

  • ||

  • Tim||

    Crikey!

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Only a bunch of guilt-ridden SWPL Canucks would complain about a minority being stereotyped at successfully doing something beneficial to society.

  • Zeb||

    Seems to me that the sensible thing to do is to ignore all complaints like this. You just can't win. Someone will find a way to call anything racist.

  • The Hammer||

    People of all colors and creeds holding hands beneath a rainbow?

  • Randian||

    Nineteen people have been beheaded in Afghanistan by the Taliban for attending a mix-gender party.

    As outrageous and barbaric as this is, the United States cannot nor should it not try to fix another country.

    Ever.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    Especially since it is just a different, but equally valid culture.

  • Randian||

    Yeah I don't think anybody said anything like that.

  • wareagle||

    liberals say it all the time. It's the whole moral relativism thing and being non-judgmental. We can't fix them but we don't have pretend they're just the kooky neighbors, either.

  • Randian||

    well, I'm not a liberal, so this whole subthread is a red herring.

  • Randian||

    Excuse me, it's a non-sequitur.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    It's not a non sequitur. You think the US should leave other cultures alone for some reasons, others think the US should leave them alone because those cultures are equally valid in context.

  • Randian||

    It's not a non sequitur. You think the US should leave other cultures alone for some reasons, others think the US should leave them alone because those cultures are equally valid in context.

    Whatever. All I know is that it is none of our business, terrible though that business may be.

  • wareagle||

    yeah, but "none of our business" in military/political terms doesn't mean we have to ignore it. That story shows the rule, not the exception. It puts a clear clear lie to any notion of "they're just like us." Anyway, this happened after a decade of our fix efforts, which screams volumes about their effectiveness.

  • Drax the Destroyer||

    They should leave them alone because WHO GIVES A FUCK.

  • Whiterun Guard||

    +1 Cigar.

  • Rich||

    It's not an argument. It's just contradiction.

  • Tim||

    no it isn't!

  • Whiterun Guard||

    You could argue that.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, malodorous pervert!

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    That's pretty close to what cultural relativists say every day of the week.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    And its makes me all but weep with rage for the people I know in NE Afghanistan that just want to be left alone - where they can actually listen to music, educate their girls and peaceably smuggle from China and Pakistan.

  • ||

    From Twitter:

    Ian Martin ‏@IanMartin
    Before we criticise the way the Taliban behead people we should pause, consider our post-colonial attitudes, and call them demented cunts.
  • JW||

    That is the proper response.

  • Restoras||

    What if we're invited?

  • Randian||

    Still no.

  • SugarFree||

    If dinner parties routinely required spending billions of dollars and the loss of thousands of lives, smart people would stop going to them.

  • Whiterun Guard||

    I don't meet too many smart people. Could be just me, though, ymmv.

  • Ptah-Hotep||

    If dinner parties routinely required spending billions of dollars and the loss of thousands of lives, smart people would stop going to them.

    If the money you are spending and the lives you are loseing is not your own, then you still go.

  • Whiterun Guard||

    Actually that's how my dinner parties work.

  • Emmerson Biggins||

    I'd be all for a volunteer expeditionary force that didn't use any tax dollars. Only US govmt involvement is saying "ya, they are are so evil if you wanna go over there and kick some ass, that is OK with us".

  • np||

    I consider myself a cultural relativist personally but still maintain an absolute stance on (negative) rights and liberty i.e. "who cares, as long as rights are not violated".

    So while I'm not for state intervention and war, I am for personal intervention. That is, if people themselves want to help someone else abroad, to provide aid, or to defend or escape aggression, then be all means, go ahead.

  • JW||

    I still fantasize about being a multi-billionare with a loyal and dedicated mercenary strike team that I can send anywhere in the world to wipe out evil doers.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Isn't the Green Lantern Corps a galactic version of this?

  • ||

    I, personally, have even designed a logo patch for my imaginary provate strike force. So you're not alone.

  • Christina||

    I would start an NGO which has the sole purpose of distributing firearms to women and teaching them how to shoot.

  • The Hammer||

    And Christina wins. The thread, the day, everything.

  • Lord Humungus||

    Taranto: The Abortion Convention
    Will Democrats turn opportunity into disaster?
    http://online.wsj.com/article/.....TopOpinion

    Still, we're inclined to agree that the Democrats are behaving recklessly in seeking to Akinize the GOP. They not only plan to put abortion at the center of their own convention--as the Washington Examiner reports, the list of speakers now includes the heads of the Planned Parenthood Action Fund and NARAL Pro-Choice America, not to mention abortifacient poster child Sandra Fluke--but the Hill reports they also plan to break with tradition and wage "a full-scale assault on Republicans next week during their convention." (Don't worry, Gov. Huckabee. It won't be a literal assault.)
  • Bardas Phocas||

    I'm imagining Biden getting over enthusiastic about this and mis-reading his talking points.

    He runs up on stage, rips his shirt open to show a fresh tatoo of "DIE - FETUS - DIE". Then he'd rant about evil fetuses (feti?) thwarting the Unicorn Rider's Plans. Also the next Obama 5 year plan will include a 50% increase in fetus killin'. He'll finish it all off by pulling out a fetus and biting it's head off.

    Slate will call it "Brave."

  • kinnath||

    Ich bin ein Tampon!

  • Ska||

    The fetus, the.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Wow, their convention would turn into even more of a parody than we anticipated if that comes to pass.

    "NEVER MIND THE ECONOMY, LADIES--YOUR PRECIOUS VAGINAS ARE IN DANGER!!!!"

    As if they couldn't appeal to the narcissistic impulses of leftist women even more than they already do.

  • ant1sthenes||

    Democrats know that a woman is just a life-support system for a uterus; that's why they can safely assume no woman would be more concerned about the war, the economy, or the state of civil liberties than abortion.

  • John||

  • Rich||

    Romney sees Michigan as ripe for a pickup.

    SEXIST!

  • Whiterun Guard||

    John, for your own good, stop getting your hopes up.

  • Randian||

    Concur.

  • John||

    I am very ambivalent about this election. I can't say a Romney win will make me happy. But I can say an Obma loss will. And the biggest reason for that will not be the tears of his supporters. It will be the "of course Obama is going to win crowd" having to admit they were wrong and stupid to ever thing a President this incompetent with an economy this bad was going to win.

  • alex griggs||

    I've been tweaking my lib facebook friends with this one: If Obama wins, do you still get to say "he inherited a bad economy"? They invariably say "yes" because BOOOSH, etc. Then you get to say "so I expect I won't be hearing you post about Romney's handling of the economy if he wins, right?"

  • Randian||

    They're just going to claim that his 'massive' tax cuts and 'radical' government spending policies went Agent Orange on all those green shoots the Anointed One planted.

  • JW||

    I can't say a Romney win will make me happy. But I can say an Obma loss will.

    I think that's how I'm going to start looking at presidential elections. I can't be happy about who wins, but I can be sure that I'll be tickled to see the other sociopath lose.

  • John||

    JW.

    The day after the election is national schadenfreude day.

  • Dr. Frankenstein||

    the "Obama is going to win crowd" isn't going to admit anything.

    They'll only point out how racist the country became after electing its first black president.

  • Killazontherun||

    I am very ambivalent about this election. I can't say a Romney win will make me happy. But I can say an Obma loss will.

    Infinite agreement.

  • John||

    I know. My dreams of Obama finally killing the Democratic Party once and for all are probably not going to happen.

  • wareagle||

    he may not kill it but even insiders know he has done damage to the brand.

  • Whiterun Guard||

    Oh please, he did about as much damage to it as Torquemada did to Christianity.

    The faithful are faithful FOREVER.

  • John||

    He was great for it. That is why Pelosi is still speaker of the House.

  • wareagle||

    The faithful are faithful FOREVER.

    that explains why the number of those willing to self-identify as faithful keeps dropping. 2010 was not a good year for Dems and this election may continue that trend. The dogwashing committee has fewer members today than it did four years ago.

  • Zeb||

    Well, I think that registering with a party is not the same as being "the faithful". Lots of people register with a party just to vote in a particular primary.

  • Whiterun Guard||

    Who cares who identifies as what? The important thing is that the number of people that pull the lever for the D without exception + the number of illicit votes will continue to outweigh the sum of any votes for any other candidate. Unfortunate, but there it is.

    This is not a spiral that's escapable.

  • Rich||

    Hope, John. Ya gott have *Hope*.

  • Bee Tagger||

    Texas may stop charging prostitutes as felons.

    Maybe the prostitutes can stop charging me like it's highway robbery then!

  • db||

    Maybe you should have some cosmetic surgery on that monstrosity you call a penis.

  • Bee Tagger||

    You should have seen it before the cosmetic surgery.

  • ||

    You should have seen it before the cosmetic surgery.

    It's called a circumcision.

  • ||

    Googling "Bee Tagger's pre-op penis" produces a lot of hits, like this

  • Bee Tagger||

    I eventually got tired of untagging, so to speak, it in people's facebook photos.

  • The Taliban||

    Scientists "Hack" Brain, Procedure Could Be Used for Lie Detection

    Well, no shit.

  • Lord Humungus||

    George Will: Romney’s ‘Big 10’ strategy
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

    In the past five presidential elections, Republican candidates have received an average of 64 percent of their electoral votes from the South. In 2000, George W. Bush became the first Republican to win the presidency while losing the electoral and popular votes outside the South. The party’s Southern cast was one reason John McCain in 2008 did not carry any suburb contiguous to Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Detroit or Chicago.

    Such places are habitats of people who by now may be lightly attached Obama voters — people who like the idea of him but not the results of him. As Holman W. Jenkins of the Wall Street Journal astutely writes, “Obama’s great political talent has been his knack for granting his admirers permission to think highly of themselves for thinking highly of him.” Romney’s great political challenge is to wean them away by making them faintly embarrassed about their former infatuation.
  • The Rantin Arkansan||

    "Such places are habitats of people who by now may be lightly attached Obama voters — people who like the idea of him but not the results of him."

    He obviously hasn't been communist enough for them.

    I wish these cities would just turn themselves into their own little communist city-states and leave the rest of us the fuck alone. Throw LA, SF, Sea, and Por into the mix. But we get all of Por's beer. They don't deserve it.

  • Randian||

    Your comment kept getting filtered because of the use of "city-state". I had a brief bit of horrific nostalgia.

  • aelhues||

    I've often thought that what we need is to split the country into two loosely affiliated sections. One non-contiguous area including the south-west and the north-east, for the socialists, and the rest for those who just want to be left alone.

    It could be billed as a grand experiment for leftists to prove once and for all that their way is best...

  • Citizen Nothing||

    Big Ten? Everybody knows the S.E.C. always determines the presidency.

  • wareagle||

    their version of "the idea of him" does not mean what they think it means. He's not this transcendent black man who is going to make everything better. He's the ideologue whose every move has things worse, by design.

  • Mike M.||

    Shrieking Idiot's hero Warren Buffett is now a disingenuous, dishonest hypocrite who is quietly betting against his own espoused political and economic philosophies.

  • Restoras||

    Now? You mean he wasn't always? I am shock.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    He posted a link a few weeks ago touting Buffet's support for fiscal discipline that contained this nugget:

    BUFFETT: You know, 2 1/2 percent is— if— that's average, the GDP is it— that actually is sustainable. Debt to GDP will not go up over time in— in all likelihood with that. And these gentlemen were charged with bringing it down to 3 percent. And they came— came in I think at 2.2 percent or something of the sort.

    So you have to get expenditures, in my view, down to about 21 percent of GDP. And you have to get revenues up to 18 1/2 or 19.

    In other words, St. Warren advocating that a country should continue to spend more than they take in was evidence of his support of fiscal discipline. LOL.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/48166800/page/2/

  • Randian||

    Is it sad that I'd take that meager policy prescription at this point?

  • Whiterun Guard||

    http://www.globaldashboard.org.....ould-lose/

    The UN would fail to invade Texas if it tried. Duh.

  • John||

    It has been 150+ years since Americans actually engaged in the guerrilla end of a guerrilla war. They have no idea just how violent and resourceful Americans actually are.

  • Brett L||

    They haven't seen Red Dawn?

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    I doubt they could control Houston.

  • RBS||

    Half of them would probably get run over by the light rail.

  • Brett L||

    Why would they invade Texas? Are American children really that valuable on the sex slave market?

  • Killazontherun||

    The next step for Texas is to give the nations of the world a choice, continue cooperating with the UN which does nothing for their bottom line or continue to do trade with Texas.

  • Lord Humungus||

    David Koch: Speaking your piece: a civic duty
    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/o.....iWpF8U3bjK

    I was taught from a young age that involvement in the public discourse is a civic duty. Each of us has a right — indeed, a responsibility, at times — to make his or her views known to the larger community in order to better form it as a whole. While we may not always get what we want, the exchange of ideas betters the nation in the process.

    That practice has served us well from the First Continental Congress in 1774 to the town hall meeting no doubt held somewhere in America last night. These united states aren’t a constitutional republic in name only; the United States is a nation that lives its Constitution daily, providing for vigorous debate from all sides.
  • ||

    Huh. No-one could possibly sincerely believe that. I bet at least one Koch Brother put him up to it

  • Bee Tagger||

    Just as long as it's not done on facebook.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    A lot of people here feel alienated; they feel like they played the GOP game, and became delegates, only to see the rules changed at the last minute.

    Suckers.

    Also-

    I turned on Morning Joke just in time to see Chris Matthews' spittle-flecked tirade about how mitt Romney's dogwhistling racism proves something or other; rethuglitards want to re-enslave America, I suppose.

    The best part was the awkward uncomfortable squirming on the part of the assembled nodders.

  • John||

    There are few creatures lower than the people who actually run the political parties. Those guys should have been prepared to play dirty.

  • Fluffy||

    Usually accusations that a candidate is racist are without merit, but Mitt Romney did, indisputably, spend a portion of his adult life actively recruiting for, promoting, and serving in the administrative hierarchy of an organization that held that blacks weren't really full human beings.

  • John||

    Did he spend his youth working for the Democratic Party?

  • Fluffy||

    May as well

  • John||

    That is just it. The Mormons have no worse a racial history than the Democrats do. Both organizations have shed such views. So therefore current membership is not the same as membership in 1955.

    There are lots of good reasons to hate Romney. But saying he is racist because he is a Mormon is about the most retarded one.

  • Drax the Destroyer||

    Racist may not be the appropriate term anymore. Stupid? Deluded? Disingenuous? Probably still valid. Can I muster a fuck either way? Nope.

  • John||

    The Mormons are nuts but generally harmless. To object to a Mormon or a Catholic or a Hindu or any other person being President based on religion alone is a pretty stupid precedent.

  • Drax the Destroyer||

    Like I said, I'm incapable of Fuck-mustering regarding this. Most Mormons I have met have been genuinely nice people who didn't seem to have an annoying interest in my spiritual well-being. Religion would be the last thing (unless it's Scientology) I'd give a crap about regarding a prospective president.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    "Religion would be the last thing (unless it's Scientology) I'd give a crap about regarding a prospective president."

    So, I guess its no President Travolta or President Cruise for you, eh? Gah, I almost puked even thinking that out loud.

  • John||

    Drax,

    I would vote for a scientologist if he actually held views I agreed with and was the best candidate. Unless you could prove to me he planned to turn the country over to them or something.

  • Drax the Destroyer||

    John,

    That concern was more for trite comedy than anything else. Outside of that, a President who handed over the country like that would probably make for interesting times, and hopefully, said bastard would be drawn and quartered on the White House lawn.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    And I guess my comdey reply missed the mark, damme!

  • ||

    I don't care what your religion is, I don't trust anyone who doesn't drink.

  • Fluffy||

    Both organizations have shed such views. So therefore current membership is not the same as membership in 1955.

    I would happily cut some slack to any Mormon who was a child in 1978, and to any Mormons born since then.

    But Mitt was an adult.

    If I belonged to a political party in my 20's that held that blacks weren't people, even if that party changed its mind later, criticizing me by saying, "Fluffy was part of a group that said that blacks weren't people!" would be a valid criticism.

    Personally, I don't think that Robert Byrd deserved any slack. People gave it to him because of the none-dare-call-it-treason rule, and not because he deserved it.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    Uh, I could be mistaken, but from my upclose view in the late 1970s, the Mormon view was more like the Catholic view of women. They were welcome, but couldn't hold any priesthoods.

  • John||

    There were black Mormons CN. But don't bother fluffy with facts when he gets his atheist on. He is on a roll.

  • Fluffy||

    The Mormon Church barred blacks from the priesthood and from participation in the temple ordinances, which among other things means that their marriages aren't "real" marriages.

    Blacks were declared to be marked by the curse of Cain.

    Do you have any evidence he ever believed those things? And the Mormons were not the KKK. They were not to my knowledge out terrorizing black people.

    I didn't say they were. And I made no statement about Mitt's personal beliefs. But it's indisputable that he knew what the Mormon Church's position was and still had no problem proselytizing for that church and participating in its leadership.

    You hate religious people. we get it fluffy.

    No. Americans have attempted to foist on us some sort of social agreement that it doesn't matter WHAT tenets a group proposes, as long as it's "a religion" (or, at least, among the set of "respectable" religions) and that everybody gets a pass for the most glaring absurdities and abuses as long as it's dressed up as religion.

    If I joined a group in my 20's and became a local cell leader of that group, and the group held as a tenet the idea that blacks were less human than whites, I would not get a pass on that. Ever. If I ran for office later, it would be the first thing mentioned about me. Forever.

    There is no justification for treating Mitt different because "Aw, come on, Fluffy, that was his religion. You can't hold people responsible for their religion." The fuck I can't.

  • robc||

    If I joined a group in my 20's and became a local cell leader of that group, and the group held as a tenet the idea that blacks were less human than whites, I would not get a pass on that. Ever. If I ran for office later, it would be the first thing mentioned about me. Forever.

    Byrd got a pass on it, why wouldnt you?

  • Fluffy||

    Byrd got a pass on it, why wouldnt you?

    Because Democrats are intellectually dishonest when dealing with their own side?

  • John||

    I didn't say they were. And I made no statement about Mitt's personal beliefs.

    Then since Romney is running for President not the Mormon Church, you said nothing relevant other than you don't like Mormons. Once again fluffy, anyone who reads your posts knows you hate religious people. Got it.

  • Randian||

    He believed them because he adopted the Mormon faith.

    What more do you need?

    If you don't want your faith's views imputed on you, don't be a member of that faith.

    "But waaa! I privately disagreed with the Church in my secret Heart of Hearts!"

    Actions matter, not post facto disclaimers.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    Actions matter, not post facto disclaimers.

    So pro-choice people can't be Republicans and pro-life people can't be Democrats and pro-borders people can't be libertarians?

    If actions matter, maybe we should look at Romney's actions with respect to that issue, not impute some belief to him.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    There is no justification for treating Mitt different because "Aw, come on, Fluffy, that was his religion. You can't hold people responsible for their religion." The fuck I can't.

    So does that make Eisenhower an unrepentant racist for having a Mormon as one of his cabinet secretaries?

  • John||

    Do you have any evidence he ever believed those things? And the Mormons were not the KKK. They were not to my knowledge out terrorizing black people.

    Again, there are lots of good reasons to dislike Romney. But this one is weapons grade retard. You hate religious people. we get it fluffy.

  • ||

    Do you have any evidence he ever believed those things? And the Mormons were not the KKK. They were not to my knowledge out terrorizing black people.

    Again, there are lots of good reasons to dislike Romney. But this one is weapons grade retard.

    I agree John. It's stupid to try to discredit Romney because of his religion. If people can't argue against him based on his policies and his record it's probably because they have no idea what he stands for or what he's actually done, and their dislike of him is just a knee-jerk reaction to his religion or political affiliation. Personally, I don't care about the fact that the Mormon church viewed blacks as inferior at one time. Their church should have the right to believe what they want and exclude whoever they want for any reason. Their "evolution" on the matter proves that the free market of ideas works.

  • Enough About Palin||

    I suspect Thomas Jefferson viewed blacks as inferior at one time.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    Indeed, therre are enough non-religious reasons to frown when thinking "President Romney"...maybe not with the misery that thinking "President Obama's second term" induces, but still no fun at all.

  • wareagle||

    If I belonged to a political party in my 20's that held that blacks weren't people, even if that party changed its mind later, criticizing me by saying, "Fluffy was part of a group that said that blacks weren't people!" would be a valid criticism.

    where is it said that Romney believed that blacks are not people?

  • Randian||

    where is it said that Romney believed that blacks are not people?

    Mormons believe that, so it follows to impute those beliefs on an active and visible Elder of the Church, does it not?

  • John||

    Yeah Randian

    Everyone who attends a church believes in every single thing the church says and has no desire to change or reform it.

    Atheist never fail to disappoint me with their profound ignorance at how actual religions work and the people in them think.

  • Randian||

    And the strawman is down for the count.

    Look, John, if it is silly for Barack Obama to say that he attended Rev. Wright's church for 20 years but never listened to the sermons, it is equally silly to say that a prominent senior leader in the Mormon church can pick and choose his beliefs unless he actively fought for reformation thereof.

  • John||

    Randian

    Difference in degree becoming a difference in kind. First, no one is saying Romney isn't a Mormon, only that he is not a racist for being one. Obama in contrast tries to claim he doesn't believe or know about anything Wright said.

    Wright also still believes all of that stuff. The Mormon Church alllowed black members but just didn't allow them to be priests. And that changed over 30 years ago. That is a hell of a lot different than the live Wright, whose Church Obama was attending in the 00s and who still believes all of that stuff.

    There are lots of good reasons to dislike Romney. But claiming he is a racist because Mormons didn't allow blacks to be priests until 35 years ago is just idiotic and proves that atheists are as bigoted and ignorant as the worst fundies and that Libertarians are often just dipshit liberals who want to smoke pot.

  • Randian||

    Look at John's tiny fists of rage!

    John, if he does not adhere to those beliefs, why did he take a leadership position on that organization?

    The Mormon Church alllowed black members but just didn't allow them to be priests.

    Or to get married.

    And please understand that any male member of the LDS may be a priest, so that's actually a really big exception, and not nearly as minute as you are trying to portray it.

  • Zeb||

    "Wright also still believes all of that stuff."

    You know that? Maybe he just says it because it keeps the pews full.

  • Lord Humungus||

    John, does this hold true for Obama and Wright?

  • Lord Humungus||

    der - beaten by Randian

  • Randian||

    It does hold true, LH, but John just handwaved it.

  • John||

    Read my 9:47 post. The two situations are different. And I am quite sure Romney would say the Mormons were wrong. And the Mormons changed 35 years ago. And Obama's association with Wright matters because there is reasons to believe that Obama is actually a radical leftist. Is there any reason to believe that Romney is racist?

  • ||

    Everyone who attends a church believes in every single thing the church says and has no desire to change or reform it.

    This is exactly why I don't go to church. It's not that I don't believe in God, I just don't believe that God is some douche that hates people and wants to punish them for stupid reasons.

  • wareagle||

    I just don't believe that God is some douche that hates people and wants to punish them for stupid reasons.

    yup, the whole wrathful god thing is a turnoff. Leadership-by-fear isn't leadership at all. It's like the folks begging every to pray when someone gets sick or interviews for a job or does whatever. If the outcome is negative, does it mean god played favorites? No, it just means shit happens.

  • Lord Humungus||

    ^^this^^

    I had a friend who grew up as a Jehovah's Witness. A few years ago, he just walked away and has been happier ever since.

  • wareagle||

    Mormons believe that, so it follows to impute those beliefs on an active and visible Elder of the Church, does it not?

    claiming that someone believed something neither proves actual belief or that action was taken based on that belief. It's playing the Mormon card, something the right-wing bible base, led by Huckabee, did four years ago and what Dems are doing now.

  • Randian||

    claiming that someone believed something neither proves actual belief or that action was taken based on that belief.

    So calling someone a libertarian means you can draw no conclusion about their political beliefs?

  • wareagle||

    So calling someone a libertarian means you can draw no conclusion about their political beliefs?

    speaking of the straw man defense. Besides, even with libertarians, conclusions should be drawn carefully. Witness the Akin thread from last week when sentiment was all over the place. Also, plenty of Catholics went for birth control long before the Pope said it was okay to do so.

  • Randian||

    OK, wareagle, no one believes the views of organizations they voluntarily join.

  • wareagle||

    OK, wareagle, no one believes the views of organizations they voluntarily join.

    no one believes every single view of an organization they join. You should know that as well as anyone considering how often you disagree with others who describe themselves as libertarians.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    " the Pope said it was okay'

    When was this?

  • ||

    So calling someone a libertarian means you can draw no conclusion about their political beliefs?

    Based on what I've seen in the comment threads here at H+R, I don't think you can.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    "Mormons believe that."

    Uh, no, Randian, they don't, at least not in the last 100 years or so. I'll just note that some of their biggest missionary efforts were aimed at third world countries.

    (I tried to quickly come up with a Mormons/Catholics like their coffee like they like their priests/women, but failed. Any ideas?)

    I take the Matt and Trey view of Mormons. They're idiots, but usually really, really nice idiots.
    That said, Fuck Mitt Romney.

  • Ptah-Hotep||

    (I tried to quickly come up with a Mormons/Catholics like their coffee like they like their priests/women, but failed. Any ideas?)

    Hot and black??

  • ||

    Bitter and murky?

  • ||

    not all over the children?

  • Citizen Nothing||

    "Mormons believe that."

    Uh, no, Randian, they don't, at least not in the last 100 years or so. I'll just note that some of their biggest missionary efforts were aimed at third world countries.

    (I tried to quickly come up with a Mormons/Catholics like their coffee like they like their priests/women, but failed. Any ideas?)

    I take the Matt and Trey view of Mormons. They're idiots, but usually really, really nice idiots.
    That said, Fuck Mitt Romney.

  • Randian||

    Like Fluffy said, until 1978, black people's marriages were not legitimate in the LDS Church.

    If that is not an expression of inferiority, I can't figure out why we're all exercised about gay marriage lately.

  • John||

    I can't figure out why we're all exercised about gay marriage lately.

    Neither can I because I am not.

  • ||

    Neither can I because I am not.

    Looks like John's sleeping alone tonight...BA-ZING!

  • kinnath||

    In 1976, the local priest wouldn't baptize my son until my wife and I renewed our vows in the church. Apparently, getting married by a JP didn't really count.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Like Fluffy said, until 1978, black people's marriages were not legitimate in the LDS Church.

    Another lie.

    Are you this ignorant about every issue you comment on?

  • Randian||

    Another lie.

    Are you this ignorant about every issue you comment on?

    That is not a lie. Black people were prohibited from participating in temple 'ordinances', roughly 'sacraments'. Marriage is an ordinance. Ergo, black marriages = not legitimate in the eyes of the Mormon god.

    Do you have evidence to the contrary?

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Your understanding of mormons is stunningly ignorant.

    Mormon recognize all marriages, whether they happen in a mormon temple or not.

    Under your misrepresentation, mormons would believe that 90%+ of all the marriages in the US, let alone the world, were invalid. Which is clearly nonsense.

  • Randian||

    Not by the tenets of their own faith.

    A celestial marriage = a valid Mormon marriage. If you are saying that they recognize state-sanctioned black marriages, well, OK, but black Mormons could not get married in the Mormon church until 1978.

    Clearly this is a case of you missing the context of the discussion, and I suggest you are doing so deliberately.

    See, read this again:

    black people's marriages were not legitimate in the LDS Church.

    What do you think that says?

  • VG Zaytsev||

    OK, but black Mormons could not get married in the Mormon church until 1978.

    Another lie.

    You should really stop digging.

    FYI temple privileges for mormons required a number of steps, including abstinence from alcohol and caffeine for an extended period of time and being current on their tithe (contributions).

    There are a large number of mormons that marry each other outside of temple with a mormon bishop presiding. And of course, anytime a mormon marries a non mormon it will not be a temple marriage.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    black people's marriages were not legitimate in the LDS Church.
    What do you think that says?

    That you are an ignorant bigot.

    Again, under your misrepresentation, no marriage outside of temple would be legitimate in the eyes of the LDS church, not just "black" marriages.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    The squirrels have invaded Bloomington.
    BTW, when in the home of Indiana U., check out Farmbloomington restaurant on Kirkwood. I had a massively entertaining/delicious meal there last night. And they stock 30 different bourbons, as well as 30 single malt scotchs.

  • FormerMormonLibertarian||

    "where is it said that Romney believed that blacks are not people?"

    Randian: "Mormons believe that, so it follows to impute those beliefs on an active and visible Elder of the Church, does it not?"

    No, Mormons do not believe that, nor did they believe that prior to 1978. There were/are many theories as to why blacks were denied the priesthood and entrance into the temple, none of which involves them being 'less than human'. You're speaking out your ass.

    There were also many members who hated the doctrine and were glad to see it changed. In terms of Romney, I'm surprised to see that nobody every really pushed him harder on the issue.

  • Randian||

    There were/are many theories as to why blacks were denied the priesthood and entrance into the temple, none of which involves them being 'less than human'. You're speaking out your ass.

    That 'mark of Cain' thing must be a compliment.

  • FormerMormonLibertarian||

    "That 'mark of Cain' thing must be a compliment."

    Yep, the mark of cain was one theory. Another idea preached by a couple leaders was that blacks were less valiant in what mormons refer to as the pre-existance.

    In either case, it was never preached that blacks were 'less than human'.

    You remain full of shit.

  • Randian||

    Yep, the mark of cain was one theory. Another idea preached by a couple leaders was that blacks were less valiant in what mormons refer to as the pre-existance.

    In either case, it was never preached that blacks were 'less than human'.

    Yes, associating blacks with the world's first murderer and/or calling them cowards is much better.

  • Randian||

    It's funny to me that the allegedly "Former" Mormon rushes in with the apologia that isn't really apologia at all.

  • FormerMormonLibertarian||

    "It's funny to me that the allegedly "Former" Mormon rushes in with the apologia that isn't really apologia at all."

    I left the church a few years ago because of issues I had with the church's past particularly as it relates to black, polygamy, Joseph Smith, etc... I consider myself to be a pretty solid atheist today.

    I happen to agree with you regarding Romney. As a mormon missionary, he would have preached the doctrine of blacks and the priesthood as divine truth. How did he feel about such a racist doctrine? We don't know, frankly, because nobody appears to have really pushed him for a response.

    That said, as a former mormon, and despising Romney as I do, I still find it amazing that people, such as yourself, find the need to comment on something you apparently know very little about. Instead of defending your comment, just admit your mistake and move on.

    That said, I'm always surprised

  • FormerMormonLibertarian||

    meh. too many words.

  • FormerMormonLibertarian||

    "Yes, associating blacks with the world's first murderer and/or calling them cowards is much better."

    Apparently, correcting a gross misstatement of what mormons believed pre 1978 means I must think there policy towards blacks was perfectly acceptable.

    For someone who tends to disagree with John on a lot, you sure have a similar debate style.

  • Randian||

    Apparently, correcting a gross misstatement of what mormons believed pre 1978 means I must think there policy towards blacks was perfectly acceptable.

    What is it that is "grossly" inaccurate about the term "less than human"?

    You are right that the words "less than human" don't appear in the Mormon Bible. My bad.

    That does not mean I cannot distill a whole bunch of policies of the Mormon faith RE: black people and categorize them in a certain way.

    Fact or fiction:

    1. A Mormon theory holds that you get black skin by having the Mark of Cain
    2. Mormons did not permit blacks to participate in temple ordinances and therefore did not recognize their marriages as valid within the faith.
    3. Another Mormon theory holds you get blackness from cowardice
    4. Even though all adult males wishing to become priests may become priests (which is a big category), black males were excluded
    5. Via Wiki:

    Church president Brigham Young said "If the White man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain (those with dark skin), the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so."

    But yes, how dare anyone say that the policy of Mormonism was to view blacks as "less than human". What an exaggeration.

  • FormerMormonLibertarian||

    "You are right that the words "less than human" don't appear in the Mormon Bible. My bad."

    You should have ended it right here.

    1.That was a theory that was taught. It certainly hasn't been taught probably for the last 20-30 years.
    2. Not exactly. Blacks weren't allowed to marry in the temple, but the church does recognize civil marriage. How so? It would be considered a sin to cohabitate with someone w/o being AT LEAST married by the state.
    3. Never heard this one.
    4. true.
    5. This was one of the first quotes that turned me off to the church

    In any of those cases, it was never suggested black were less than human. Your comment remains patently false. Admit it.

  • Randian||

    In any of those cases, it was never suggested black were less than human.

    All of those things ARE suggestive of the outlook.

    My comment was a summation of the attitude; a one-phrase essence of the penumbras of Mormon doctrine.

    If you don't like it, go pound sand. I stand by it. You don't get to say that Whites have the 'chosen seed' and that Blacks have the 'seed of Cain' and then get to say "well, but I never said blacks were less than human!"

    Bullshit you didn't.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    If I belonged to a political party in my 20's that held that blacks weren't people, even if that party changed its mind later,

    Mormons never said that blacks weren't people.

  • John||

    And if Romney were a no kidding Libertarian I am sure Randian and Fluffy would be so worried about him being a Mormon. Again, dislike Romney for his policy views.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    That is just it. The Mormons have no worse a racial history than the Democrats do.

    The worst the Mormons did was exclude blacks from their priesthood.

    The worst democrats did was fight a war in support of slavery, legitimize racial terrorists for 90 years, pervert the legal system of numerous states and the federal government and put a couple of hundred thousand US Citizens into concentration camps.

    But yeah, some how the Mormons are worse because they ended their policy fifteen years after the CRA passed.

  • Fluffy||

    Atheist never fail to disappoint me with their profound ignorance at how actual religions work and the people in them think.

    Actually, I know exactly how they work:

    Most people join them for no better reason than the fact that their parents were in them.

    And most people are too stupid or too lazy to think anything about the theologies of their churches at all. They literally give it no thought.

    And there's this general agreement (that nobody ever got me to sign) that religion shouldn't be taken too seriously or looked at too closely, because all the religions of any antiquity at all have absurd skeletons in their closets, so to get along we're all just going to pretend none of them are there.

    And even though this is completely contradicted by the lame pantomime people go through where they declare that their religion is the "most important thing" in their lives, that everything to them is about "family and faith", I'm supposed to ignore that. I'm supposed to nod sagely when religious people spout cliches about how important religion is, and then turn around and ignore their statement entirely.

    Believe me, I know.

    The entire reason this subthread is here is because P Brooks posted that Chris Matthews was crazy to think that Mitt is a secret racist based on "dogwhistling". And it does seem silly to scrutinize his speeches for dogwhistling when his entire pre-1978 experience as a Mormon is somehow placed off-limits for comment. That's all.

  • Randian||

    That's fucking poetry, Fluffy.

  • John||

    That's fucking poetry, Fluffy.

    Poetry of the stupid and hateful.

  • John||

    The bottom line is fluffy is that you are like most atheists. You can't accept the fact that people might actually think about these issues and come to a different conclusion about God and religion than you do. That is because you are at heart, like most atheists profoundly insecure in your beliefs. They all must be stupid because if they are not it might require you to think. And you are way to insecure for that. It doesn't make you a bad person. It just makes you kind of sad and funny.

  • Fluffy||

    You can't accept the fact that people might actually think about these issues and come to a different conclusion about God and religion than you do.

    I'd be happy to come to that conclusion.

    But then I get to judge people for their religion.

    This is the paradox you can't escape, John.

    You simultaneously want to exempt religious people from judgment for the fucking stupid things they believe, but then turn around and claim that I'm wrong when I take you seriously and say, "OK, then I guess people aren't actually serious about their religious affiliations."

    It has to be one or the other.

    Either people are affirmatively pledging their allegiance to every arrow in their church's quiver when they show up, or they aren't.

    If Mitt Romney "thought about the issues and came to a conclusion", that means that we can hold him personally accountable for the theology of the Mormon Church. The only way to not hold him personally accountable is to say that the church was just a glorified social club, that he joined because his parents were part of it, and that he didn't give a damn one way or the other about teasing out the logical implications of things like the claim that black people bore the mark of Cain.

  • tarran||

    If Mitt Romney "thought about the issues and came to a conclusion", that means that we can hold him personally accountable for the theology of the Mormon Church. The only way to not hold him personally accountable is to say that the church was just a glorified social club, that he joined because his parents were part of it, and that he didn't give a damn one way or the other about teasing out the logical implications of things like the claim that black people bore the mark of Cain.

    That's a false dichotomy. People join organizations all the time even if they don't agree with all the organizations' goals or doctrine. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find any organization of more than two people where all the members universally agreed with everything the organization is doing.

    Take me, for example. I became a Catholic as an adult. I think the Church has no business agitating for laws outlawing abortion and commits numerous other heresies. I also did it primarily to make my marriage to their daughter more palatable to her parents.

    But, during the indoctrination, I found myself agreeing with the core Christian ethical system - that we love one another and that we be agents of peace - to the point that long after I ejected out of the burning wreckage that was my marriage, I still identify as one.

  • robc||

    Either people are affirmatively pledging their allegiance to every arrow in their church's quiver when they show up, or they aren't.

    Thats not how it works.

    Most people are pledging allegiance to some of the arrows and ignoring the others.

    The nice thing is, that itself is one of my denominations arrows.

  • Fluffy||

    Thats not how it works.

    Most people are pledging allegiance to some of the arrows and ignoring the others.

    Maybe it's true that Mitt didn't accept it. Hell, maybe Mitt even tried to change it! Maybe he was one of the reformers.

    But that means he gets to say that in response to criticism. So the conversation goes:

    "Hey Mitt, what's up with working for a racist organization?"

    "Well, I never accepted that part of my religion, and I fought to change it, and eventually it got changed!"

    That's a perfectly reasonable defense for him to offer.

    What I'm pointing out is that it's also a reasonable question to ask. That it would be asked if we were talking about any other type of organization. And that it's unreasonable to treat religion differently.

    And not only is religion unfairly and inappropriately treated differently, it's treated differently with indignation. We're not apologetically asked to cut religions slack we wouldn't cut other organizations; we're indignantly commanded to do so. "HOW DARE YOU slur this poor man's religion!!!11!1!" Fuck off.

  • John||

    No you half wit. People think about their religion and accept some of the beliefs and don't accept some of them.

    By your logic, by being a member of the Libertarian Party, you necessarily support everything it does.

    You are just being retarded Fluffy.

  • Enough About Palin||

    "The bottom line is fluffy is that you are like most atheists. You can't accept the fact that people might actually think about these issues and come to a different conclusion about God and religion than you do."

    I kind of agree with this. It's akin to the belief of progressives that since you do not see the world as they do, you are undoubtedly an idiot. They simply can not imagine anything different.

  • Randian||

    I kind of agree with this. It's akin to the belief of progressives that since you do not see the world as they do, you are undoubtedly an idiot. They simply can not imagine anything different.

    No it is not. It is holding people responsible for the organizations they join. Fluffy is right in that every body organization people join is exhaustingly scrutinized for poor beliefs, except for faiths, where we're just supposed to ignore long-held tenets as "ah well people disagree".

  • SugarFree||

    It's akin to the belief of progressives that since you do not see the world as they do, you are undoubtedly an idiot. They simply can not imagine anything different.

    I submit that everyone believes this.

  • John||

    Actually, I know exactly how they work:

    Most people join them for no better reason than the fact that their parents were in them.

    And most people are too stupid or too lazy to think anything about the theologies of their churches at all. They literally give it no thought.

    Thanks for establishing beyond doubt you are both a bigot and don't know shit about religion but think you do.

    I don't know what to tell you other than you are ignorant. It is a shame because you are an otherwise smart and reasonable person. But when it comes to religion you are just a profoundly stupid and bigoted person. So stupid in fact, you don't even understand how stupid you are.

  • Fluffy||

    Thanks for establishing beyond doubt you are both a bigot and don't know shit about religion but think you do.

    This is demographically indisputable.

    In every country with significant religious belief, the overwhelming majority of religious people belong to the same religion as their parents.

    That's a statistical impossibility unless most people are just taking on the religious beliefs of their parents. An impossibility.

    So that part is beyond dispute.

    So that leaves us with the claim that religious people generally don't care about the actual details of their religion. Are you seriously going to try to argue with me that I couldn't easily stump more than 50% of Catholics on the intricacies of their theology? It also seems like a stupid thing for you to try to argue, considering the fact that upthread you're telling me not to hold people responsible for the actual beliefs of their religion.

  • Zeb||

    I think Fluffy has it about right. This doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of people who sincerely believe and give a lot of thought to their beliefs. But it certainly does seem to be the case that for most people, religion is a comfortable social club more than what they really truly believe.

  • Enough About Palin||

    Jeff Foxworthy garners biggest hit ever for GSN with ‘American Bible Challenge’

    http://blogs.ajc.com/radio-tv-.....id=thbz_hm

    Hey Fluffy, why don't you try to get on the show?

  • Randian||

    It is a shame because you are an otherwise smart and reasonable person.

    The MNG Maneuver! Red Alert!

  • Randian||

    I don't know what to tell you other than you are ignorant.

    And call him copious names, to be sure.

  • tarran||

    Fluffy, you just described my ex's entire extended family to a T!

  • Skomoroh||

    Did the Mormon Church change its position on blacks internally or were they forced to do so from outside the chruch?

    If the church changed from within then how does that jibe with those whose position is that all members of the church, prior to it changing its policies, were racist?

  • robc||

    Arent all changes from within, by definition?

    Even if pressured from outside, the final decision to change comes from within.

  • Skomoroh||

    Technically perhaps, but I do think at a certain level of coercion it is debatable.

    However, it does not answer my question. If there was a movement within the church to change its policies towards black people, should the members of that movement still be considered racists?

    What was Romney's position on the change? Did work for the change? against it? neutral? I think that would be the right question to ask.

  • robc||

    What was Romney's position on the change? Did work for the change? against it? neutral? I think that would be the right question to ask.

    As do I.

    As an aside, if someone "accepts all the quivers of their church" or whatever, does that mean a member of the Morman church was racist until 1978 then suddenly stopped being racist?

    And isnt that a sign of growth and a positive quality in the individual?

  • Fluffy||

    It's akin to the belief of progressives that since you do not see the world as they do, you are undoubtedly an idiot.

    Nope.

    But there are two ways, and only two ways, to come to be part of a church:

    As I said above, I'm entirely willing to believe that there are lots of people who affirmatively make the decision to embrace a particular religion.

    I'm just saying that when dealing with those people, I am entitled to treat that affirmative decision the same way I'd treat somebody's decision to become a Communist, or to work for the ACLU.

    If I joined the Communist party in my 20's and handed out leaflets for them and knocked on doors in France to try to get people to join, people would rightly find that significant. If I was running for office and people criticized me and said, "Well, since Fluffy did that, I guess that means he thinks that the collective should own the means of production!" there would be no outcry - none - about how unfair it was to say that about me.

    And the more my action was the result of thinking, of reflection, of intention, the more significant it would be.

    I'm not making a false consciousness argument. At all. I'm doing the opposite. I'm holding people totally responsible for what they say and what they do, and not handing out special mercy points because religion is in some unique category. Because it's not.

  • robc||

    Fluffy,

    If you handed out communists leaflets in your 20s, then in your 30s joined the LP and had decades of service to the LP, I dont think anyone would hold the leafletting against you.

  • T||

    Leave me out of this discussion.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Most people join them for no better reason than the fact that their parents were in them.

    And yet you're convinced that Mitt belonged to the church of his parents makes him a crypto racist because he wouldn't have belonged if he weren't (or something).

    You're contradicting your own ignorant bullshit now.

  • Randian||

    That isn't his point, VG, although your inability comprehend words is unsurprising, to say the least.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Fluffy| 8.27.12 @ 9:24AM

    I would happily cut some slack to any Mormon who was a child in 1978, and to any Mormons born since then.

    But Mitt was an adult.

    If I belonged to a political party in my 20's that held that blacks weren't people, even if that party changed its mind later, criticizing me by saying, "Fluffy was part of a group that said that blacks weren't people!" would be a valid criticism.


    Fluffy| 8.27.12 @ 10:14AM

    This is demographically indisputable.

    In every country with significant religious belief, the overwhelming majority of religious people belong to the same religion as their parents.

    That's a statistical impossibility unless most people are just taking on the religious beliefs of their parents.

    So that part is beyond dispute.

    So that leaves us with the claim that religious people generally don't care about the actual details of their religion. Are you seriously going to try to argue with me that I couldn't easily stump more than 50% of Catholics on the intricacies of their theology?

    So which one is fluffy's point Randian?

    A) That Mitt's membership proves he's a racist or that

    b)Mitt probably didn't care about the doctrines of his church because he inherited membership from his parents. or that

    c) Fluffy is an ignorant bigot spinning out whaterver bullshit will support his pre determined hatred of Mormons in general and Mitt in particular.

  • Skip||

    I was just watching Morning Joe and Thrillpants Matthews just exploded on the RNC chair for daring to make a Birther joke even though Obama has been doing them for over a year.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    I just saw Chrissy Mathews say that the Republicans calling Obama's program European is racist.

    Cause, the Rs hate white Euros or something.

  • Lord Humungus||

    China’s arms exports flooding sub-Saharan Africa
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

    But China has stood apart from other major arms exporters, including Russia, for its assertive challenge to U.N. authority, routinely refusing to cooperate with U.N. arms experts and flexing its diplomatic muscle to protect its allies and curtail investigations that may shed light on its own secretive arms industry.

    The stance highlights the tensions between China’s responsibilities as a global power and its interests in exploiting new markets. It has also raised questions about whether Chinese diplomats have a grip on the reach of the country’s influence in the arms industry beyond its borders.
  • The Rantin Arkansan||

    Well, China has to make up the ridiculous amounts of money it's going to lose from it's grossly overinflated housing/credit/infrastructure bubble.

  • Tim||

    Isn't there a picture of a Chinese arms smuggler on the new Canadian $100?

  • Rich||

    Yep, the one printed with oil shale residue.

  • db||

    It was going to be a Russian arms smuggler but the cossack outfit was too racist.

  • John||

    http://m.washingtonpost.com/po.....ingtonpost

    Romney up 1 among "registered voters". Among likely voters his lead is probably in the statistically significant range.

  • ||

    a sensational Swiss headline:

    Swiss make finals in race to better toilet

  • LTC(ret) John||

    I've never been more proud to work for a Swiss company!

  • Tim||

    A million dollars in RD down the drain...

  • sloopyinca||

    Not only is an open gate considered probable cause to enter someone's back yard late at night, apparently it can lead to officers having a "spontaneous reaction" and shooting the homeowner in the arm. No, wait, it was in the chest. No, it was the arm.

    Officer has not been charged.

  • Tim||

    "She saw a flashlight and identified herself as the homeowner and he shot her," said Orey's father, Dennis Morgan.

  • robc||

    and nothing else happened.

  • $park¥||

    "After he shot her, she looked at him and said, 'Why did you shoot me?'" said Morgan.

    Officer: "It was dark and I was skeered. I thought you was comin' right at me."

  • mr simple||

    Deputies were called to 8900 block of Leigh Avenue shortly before 10:30 p.m. Sunday to investigate a suspicious man seen in the area wearing a ski mask.

    So whenever there's a call about a masked man, the orders are shoot to kill?

  • KDN||

    Orey told relatives the deputy told her to lay on her back until paramedics arrived.

    Her father said Orey was the first woman accepted in the Navy's Air and Sea Rescue team and she knew if she stayed on her back she would die, so she turned on her side and waited.

    "Please die so I can plant my gun on you and say the wound was self inflicted. That'll be sooooo much less paperwork."

  • Loki||

    Not only is an open gate considered probable cause to enter someone's back yard late at night, apparently it can lead to officers having a "spontaneous reaction" and shooting the homeowner

    This is why I make sure to keep my gates to my backyard locked. It's not to keep out my neighbors, or "those damn kids", or potential burglars, but to discourage nosy cops from poking around.

    A teenager or would be burglar could jump the fence easily enough, but a fat out of shape do-nut munching cop, not so much.

  • Scarcity||

    "During that contact, one of the deputies fired from his service weapon. The female was struck in the arm by the round."

    Kudos for active voice in the first sentence. But then that pesky female was passively struck by the round in the second.

  • Lord Humungus||

    OT: so for my birthday weekend, took the family on a trip to Ann Arbor and Lansing, homes of UofM and MSU respectively. It was "moving in" weekend with quite a number of college students finding their flea infested digs.

    Based on my research, MSU handily beats UofM for the hot girls ratio. Too many hippie/free-spirit / eat lots of carby vegetarian food (Ann Arbor) versus the girl-next-door look / yoga pants (E. Lansing).

  • Restoras||

    UofM is a big draw from the liberal, affluent Northeast corridor. You know, the people who can afford to be liberal.

    MSU, not so much. Will push my son to MSU when the time comes.

  • Lord Humungus||

    yep - my older brother went to UofM and hated it. My good friend from High School went two years before dropping out. UofM - at the time - was basically the place to go if the kid couldn't make it to an elite eastern school.

    I applied to UofM and got accepted but opted out.

  • John||

    The fictional group in The Big Chill all were supposed to have gone to U of M. And from what I am told, they got it about right.

  • alex griggs||

    While there is some of this, there is also quite a bit of the other side too -- at least among the people I hung out with while I was there. Those elite east coast schools tend to be small, and (uh) on the east coast. I dind't want either. I wanted to go to a "large" elite university, which really narrows the pool: Michigan, Virginia, Berkeley, Northwestern, Duke, etc.

    Yeah it's full of liberal scum. What good college isn't? But there are plenty of good-looking women of all political persuasions at places like Michigan too.

  • RBS||

    Has there been a greater invention than Yoga Pants? The creator deserves a Nobel Prize.

  • Restoras||

    Except when you see a woman in them who should be wearing size 16 sweats from Walmart. But otherwise yes.

  • wareagle||

    that rule generally applies when weighing the choice between University of State and State State University. It may not be universal but it's pretty close.

  • robc||

    In many southern states, State State University is an HBCU.

    Kentucky State, Tennessee State, South Carolina St, Alabama St. Maybe some others.

  • Randian||

    I learned something today.

  • wareagle||

    nope; in Alabama it is Auburn. In SC, it is Clemson. You may be right about KY and TN. GA has Tech, at least with regard to engineering, and MS is clear. LA is kinda the oddball; there is LSU but the U of L label applies to a batch of schools that used to fly under directional labels.

  • John||

    Auburn is an HBC? Alabama state is an HBC.

  • RBS||

    Clemson is an HBC? That'll be news to all my alumni friends.

  • John||

    Clemson and Auburn I thought were land grant colleges like Michigan State and Texas AM.

  • wareagle||

    I mean in terms of what State State U functionally does. NC State, Miss St, OK State are all ag/engineering based. Same with Auburn and Clemson.

    Besides, AL also has AL AM and NC is full of HBCU's. I'm talking about the actual mission of the universities.

  • RBS||

    Gotcha.

  • John||

    Wareagle,

    They are land grant colleges. Auburn is really Alabama AM with a different name.

  • wareagle||

    I was referring to the educational mission of schools that fall under the State State U banner. State is the land grant college, heavy on ag/eng; U of State is where the biz/med/law tracks tend to be.

    The general rule of different student bodies - the granolas vs girls next door analogy made above - is applicable with SC/Clemson, UA/AU, UT/TX A-M, etc etc. Only point I was making.

  • robc||

    State is the land grant college

    Not everywhere, which is my point.

    In about 6 cases, State is the HBCU for Plessy v Ferguson purposes.

  • RBS||

    I have to disagree, all the granolas in SC go to College of Charleston.

  • wareagle||

    RBS,

    we'll try to give you a game this Saturday.

  • RBS||

    we'll try to give you a game this Saturday.

    Should be a good one. I still can't believe Dabo actually suspended Sammy for two games. Well, I can because it's Dabs and that's how he rolls but come on, the kid had a little weed and a couple of pills and did everything asked of him over the summer. He should have left it at that and watched gamecock nation completely meltdown.

  • wareagle||

    it balances out. Our freshmen All-Am center picked up a public drunk citation so he's out. I am ready for the season to start.

  • Brett L||

    What? Dude. There are enough hot girls in TX that you can get plenty of any flavor you like at either UT or TAMU. Except that as a straight dude, you can't date a cheerleader at TAMU.

  • BakedPenguin||

    In Florida, it's AM.

  • robc||

    Dont say nope when I am absolutely right.

    In those states, plus I think Virginia State and Delaware State, the State State U is an HBCU. Period. End of story.

    We arent discussing purposes of the university, but naming convention.

  • wareagle||

    the whole discussion began precisely because of purposes. UM and State is replicated in practically every state.

    The student bodies at the University of and at State U fit the mold described by humongous in his Michigan scenario. Unknot your knickers, dude.

  • robc||

    My knickers arent in a knot, yours are. You used the phrase "State State University", I was pointing out that it doesnt universally fit the naming convention you pointed out. That is basically only a midwest and west thing.

    As you pointed out, the lang grant schools in the south are usually something else, like Auburn and Clemson.

    State State U means something different in those places.

  • wareagle||

    I went with mission and extended it universally without factoring in the State designation of some southern schools, about which you are obviously correct. It's all good.

  • Spoonman.||

    Texas State not so much, but the other TSU (Texas Southern) is.

  • wareagle||

    the UM/Mich St equivalent applies to UT/A-M in TX. This goes upthread to a comment re: student body make up at MI and MI State. U of and State draw different crowds, and that is almost universal in every state with two such institutions.

  • robc||

    We lost a DB for 2 games because he sold his tickets to the uga game last year.

    And a LB for 1 because he was drunken boating.

  • robc||

    reply fail, this goes up above in the suspension subthread.

  • Andrew S.||

    Federal parole agents put marijuana advocate on double secret probation. Though they say it's not because of his advocacy. Really. They promise!

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/fl.....8228.story

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Samsung shares are down 7 percent on the first day of trading since a California jury ruled in favor of Apple in a recent patent suit.

    That's what you get for relying on a California jury. Next time, Samsung, diddle Corey Feldman at Neverland Ranch.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    While we may not always get what we want, the exchange of ideas betters the nation in the process.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Good luck selling that one to MSNBC.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Nineteen people have been beheaded in Afghanistan by the Taliban for attending a mix-gender party.

    Speaking of diddling Corey Feldman, if the nineteen had stuck to a same-gender party and just pulled a Jacko, the Taliban would have been a-okay with it.

    Do we blame this on the Taliban, the Afghan culture, Islam in general or George W. Bush?

  • RBS||

    W, did you really need to ask?

  • Drax the Destroyer||

    The answer is E. All of the Above.

  • R C Dean||

    None of the above.

    Its global warming, of course.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    R C Dean FTW!

  • Mike M.||

    Nine people murdered, dozens more injured in gang violence in the Windy Shitty over the weekend. You're doin' a heck of a job there, Rahmmy!

  • The Rantin Arkansan||

    Obviously needs more gun control.

  • DJF||

    This is what happens when their community organizer leaves town.

  • Scarcity||

    I'm definitely in favor of (FAR!) less gun control in Chicago, but every time I read about the shootings I wonder how much difference it would make. These are almost exclusively gang disputes. When non-members are shot it is almost always because the idiots can't shoot straight.

    There is relatively little burglary/car-jacking/hold-up type shooting going on; those are the types where I thing of more people owning guns being able to help. Because in the shootings I read about, generally both parties are well-armed.

  • Scarcity||

    Shorter: I'm in favor of less gun control for its own sake, but I don't know that it would have a significant impact on the rate of shootings in Chicago.

  • sloopyinca||

    Here's a nifty ;little story that blows a huge hole in Buckaroo Banzai's theory that cops are held accountable when they are trained and don't follow procedures.

    Officer doesn't follow procedures. Man gets killed by officer. Officer allowed to resign and apply for disability pension instead of facing discipline.

    Fuck you, dunphy.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    Kontrakt uber Alles!

  • Cdr Lytton||

    "Berdel was facing discipline for failure to carry and maintain the pepper spray that officers are issued.
    His partner did not violate any policies."

  • John||

    Real median household income has fallen 4.8% since the so-called recovery officially began in June 2009. That’s a steeper decline than occurred during the recession itself, when incomes dropped 2.6%, according to a new report from Sentier Research.

    http://news.investors.com/arti.....behind.htm

    Its recovery summer!!

  • Loki||

    My wife and I's household income has dropped 12.9%, and that' not even taking into account inflation or after tax income. My wife hasn't had a raise in 2 years, and I got laid off last year and had to take a job that pays 24.5% less pre-tax in absolute terms than I was making.

    Yay, my life sucks.

  • R C Dean||

    Saw an analysis that said voters tend to blame Dems for high unemployment and Repubs for lasses in household income.

    Weird.

  • ||

    People get paid in lasses? They should hold out for household income in fair maids and bonny ploughboys

  • Brett L||

    I would like to get paid in lasses. Or at least tail.

  • ||

    Yeah, but you're cheap. You'd probably be satisfied with a strategically shaved yak. Or at least be reminded of your kinfolk

  • Brett L||

    I have very high standards. Human, female, and alive.

  • R C Dean||

    Yes, even RC can get an RC'z Law.

  • John||

    http://www.statesman.com/blogs.....econd.html

    Man arrested for second time for filming police. This is now established law. Those fuckers need to be held personally liable for this.

  • Coeus||

    Texas cops. These authoritarian assholes are the type of people who are drawn to this job. Regardless of how many "personal stories" a certain cop apologist argues against incident after incident, this is what I see. All the time. On the streets I travel, with my own eyes.

  • John||

    So do I. I am an upper class white guy. The type of person who gets treated well by cops. And I hate their guts. If I were a minority I would probably want to shoot them.

  • Brett L||

    That's weird, they've been filming cops on 6th Street since I was there in the 90s.

  • Coeus||

    It's not weird if you realize that the cops wanted to fuck with him.

  • ||

    A MAN'S attempt to rob a New Zealand dairy at knife-point has ended in dismal failure because his intended target was too busy putting chips into the freezer.

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breakin.....z24kiWMlHN

  • Bee Tagger||

    Thanks, Cleveland:

    Parked next to a sign reading "No Parking. 7am to 6pm. Truck Zone" at 6:15 for the Indians/Yankees game.
    Car gone after game.
    Literally, no one available at any official phone number to tell us how to get the car but one stop down the rabbit hole was at least able to confirm it was towed.
    Had to come back Saturday morning (from Pittsburgh) to get the car between the hours of 10am and noon.
    The employee who handles parking tickets/tows decided not to show up to work. The only thing that prevented this debacle from extending to Monday was the assortment of ready-to-riot Clevelanders there to pick up their cars.
    Since we definitively did not park illegally, the best bet is that the cars in front of us were there before 6pm and they just decided to tow all of them. The tow report just says "parking violation." All of the cars had out-of-state plates. What kind of malicious person tows an out-of-state car who has decided to travel to their city to watch their sports teams play and spend money knowing full well they won't be able to get their car that night and will undoubtedly ruin their weekends?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Cleveland hopes you enjoyed your visit and looks forward to seeing you again, cherished visitor!

  • Drax the Destroyer||

    Fuck Cleveland.

    It's only a matter of time before non-lethal (and Lethal?) anti-"theft" (towing) measures are developed for exactly this kind of fucking bullshit. Maybe something that would eliminate a person's legs below the knee after an appropriate and descriptive audio warning. There's got to be some non-legal money in that market.

  • tarran||

    It's Cleveland.

    There are nice people in Cleveland. There are city/municipal workers in Cleveland. The intersection of the two sets is so small that it might as well be a null set.

  • Mike M.||

    We can expect this kind of B.S. to only happen more and more as our "great" American shitties continue swirling down the bankruptcy toilet.

  • R C Dean||

    What kind of malicious person tows an out-of-state car

    One with a quota and/or being paid per car towed.

  • Loki||

    What kind of malicious person tows an out-of-state car who has decided to travel to their city to watch their sports teams play and spend money knowing full well they won't be able to get their car that night and will undoubtedly ruin their weekends?

    A government employed public union member douche nozzle? Seriously, fuck Cleveland, and fuck anyone who takes a job that basically involves fucking people over (pretty much describes 99.9% of government jobs) just so the city/ state/ feds can extract more funds from people.

    Also, they probably deliberately target out of staters because they're less likely to go through the hassle of fighting the fine, and more likely to bend over and take it up the ass.

  • The Rantin Arkansan||

    Samsung shares are down 7 percent on the first day of trading since a California jury ruled in favor of Apple in a recent patent suit. The loss is worth 10 billion euros.

    I guess having $1 billion stolen from you has a negative impact on your financials. Who knew?

  • Zeb||

    Seriously, how the fuck can you have a patent for "roughly rectangular with rounded corners and a touchscreen"?

  • R C Dean||

    I don't even know how they can claim any kind of "innovation" on the concept: people have been writing up/dreaming about/working on the basic tablet format for decades.

  • fried wylie||

    "Science Fiction to sue Apple over design theft."

  • Brett L||

    You'd think the set designer for ST:TNG would be all over that.

  • jasno||

    The case won't stand. The jury clearly failed to follow the extensive instructions, which couldn't have even been read in the 3 days it took to hand out a verdict. They accidentally charged Samsung $2 million more than they were supposed to. They completely skipped over prior art questions because 'it was bogging them down'. The head of the jury is a software patent holder with a clear conflict of interest. In interviews afterwards, the jurors admitted to trying to 'punish' Samsung rather than simply assigning a dollar value based on reasonable licensing costs.

    Really, this case was way too complicated to ever be tried by jury.

    http://www.groklaw.net/article.....2510525390

  • Virginian||

    Yeah I mean its a Silicon Valley jury right?

    Big fucking shock that they ruled in favor of Apple.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    What kind of malicious person tows an out-of-state car who has decided to travel to their city to watch their sports teams play and spend money knowing full well they won't be able to get their car that night and will undoubtedly ruin their weekends?

    That's a rhetorical question, right?

    Everybody knows that's what kkkorporations do.

  • Grandpa Whithers||

    An attorney for the family of a man who died while being held down by Minneapolis police is battling the city over an officer's tiny personal pen camera that shot video of the man's death and the home computer onto which the officer downloaded it.

    Lawyer Robert Bennett has accused officer Timothy Callahan of withholding the video for six days before turning it over to police. Bennett said it might have been edited.

    Lawyers for the city called Bennett's claims "baseless and offensive," saying the video was never edited and is consistent with a video taken by a Taser that police used in the incident and a video captured by an independent security camera.

    Bennett has sued the city over the death of David Smith, 29, at the downtown YMCA on Sept. 9, 2009.

    Callahan and officer Timothy Gorman were called to the YMCA by staff who complained that Smith, who was mentally ill, was being disruptive and acting bizarrely.

    The video, shot by a pen camera that Callahan owned and had clipped to his shirt pocket, shows him and Gorman Tasering Smith, causing Smith to collapse to the floor, where the two officers held him face down for over four minutes. He stopped breathing, and although emergency workers revived him, he had no brain activity and was later declared dead.

    The Hennepin County medical examiner concluded Smith died of cardiopulmonary arrest due to asphyxia, caused by the officers kneeling on his back and buttocks so he could not turn over or breathe. It was ruled a homicide.

  • Grandpa Whithers||

  • Enough About Palin||

    Morning Joe. They start talking about Romney and the issues and what does that cunt Mika do? She interrupts to ask, "Well what's Romney going to do about Todd Akin?" Useless. Bitch.

  • John||

    What the fuck is he supposed to do?

  • VG Zaytsev||

    What would Obama do?

    Send a couple of SS agents to discuss his future health. or

    Tell the media to STFU. or

    Invite him to speak at the convention.

  • Loki||

    Neil Armstrong's dead. No word on whether or not his death is related to having his mailbox knocked over by some hooligan with libertarian sympathies, but it wouldn't surprise me.

  • John||

    Probably took a couple of years off his life.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    Any chance that any of the original moon walkers will still be alive when the next one gets there?

  • John||

    No one born after 1935 has walked on the moon. So I would guess no.

  • Drax the Destroyer||

    Any chance there is any money left to actually afford blowing it on another vanity moon landing by the time the last moon walker takes a dirt nap?

  • robc||

    Some billionaire will do it.

  • robc||

    Jerry Pournelle quote, that hopefully I wont mangle: "I always knew I would live to see the first man on the moon, I didnt think I would see the last."

  • Loki||

    Any chance that any of the original moon walkers will still be alive when the next one gets there?

    HAHAHAHAHA!!!

    Oh wait, was that a real question? What are the odds that any of us will still be alive when the next one gets there?

  • Mike M.||

    I say that China will do it within the next ten years.

  • wareagle||

    related to the topic: Armstrong died of complications from heart surgery. At 82. That won't happen with Obamacare because no one at 82 gets heart surgery unless they are totally private pay. Grandpa won't be getting hip replacements on the public nickel, either.

  • Drax the Destroyer||

    They'd still give Armstrong heart surgery. I'm sure many Soviet heroes got prompt health care as well.

  • jasno||

    Why is that a bad thing? I mean, if the government is going to pay for healthcare(not that I'm for it), should they really be spending money to keep an 82 year old alive?

    As long as you aren't prevented from spending your own money on healthcare, who gives a shit?

  • Coeus||

    Whitehouse commemorates Neil Armstrong with an enormous photo of Barak Obama.

  • ||

    what's the guy on the right wearing on his head?

  • Coeus||

  • Brett L||

    The world's biggest beanie propeller.

  • Enough About Palin||

    Two in 'Republican women for Obama' ad exposed as Democrats

    Mother and daughter team of Maria and Delia Ciano shown not to be 'Republicans' as video ad suggests

    http://dailycaller.com/#ixzz24krI7Gu6

  • Randian||

    Fixed Link because that's gold, Jerry! GOLD!

  • DJF||

    But they play Republicans on TV so it should still count.

  • Randian||

    They went to one of the ladies' Facebook page and these were her likes:

    Democracy For America
    Tar Sands Action
    Amy Goodman
    Barack Obama
    Costoftaxcuts.com
    Being Liberal
    MoveOn.org
    Bernie Sanders Tells You A Secret the GOP Would Rather You Didn’t Know
    Miss Piggy Delivers the Best Takedown of Fox News We’ve Seen All Month
    Think Progress
    The Best Quote From Barack Obama We’ve Seen This Week
    Dow and Monsanto Join Forces to Poison America’s Heartland
    Climate Reality
    Grist.org
    The Amazing Victory Scored With Obama That More People Should Be Talking About
    The Sierra Club
    The Buffett Rule
    Obama For America–Colorado
    UniteWomen.org
    Denver Young Democrats
    Obamacare
    Latinos For Obama
    Michelle Obama
    Veterans For Obama
    I Love It When I Wake Up In the Morning and Obama Is President
    Obama Truth Team
    Democratic Party
  • ||

    "Miss Piggy Delivers the Best Takedown of Fox News We’ve Seen All Month"

    What next? "Terrence Phillip deliver the best reason for supporting quantitative easing and Obama's economic management"?

  • Bee Tagger||

    Just when I thought their confidence in having the media in their back-pockets couldn't get higher.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Even NorKo party hacks don't push that much propaganda about their Dear Leader.

  • Loki||

    I Love It When I Wake Up In the Morning and Obama Is President

    This is a real fucking facebook page? God I'm glad I don't have a facebook account. Holy fucking shit.

  • Randian||

    It's tragic, isn't it.

    It is one of the reasons why I'll subscribe to John's view of politics today* that says I don't want Romney to win but I really want Obama to lose.

    * subject to change without notice.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    Randian, that is the only way I am going to make it throught this election. Terrible of me to hope for sadness and despair for millions, but there it is.

  • Bee Tagger||

    If there are as many fence-sitters as the media wants me to believe there are, it shouldn't be too difficult to find 2 who supported McCain but now are supporting Obama.

    Perhaps this is more of that "composite character" thing. These two women are portraying two women that surely exist, so that means it's truthful.

  • Skip||

    The Dims think anyone who saw a Ronald Reagan movie used to be a Republican.

  • Virginian||

    My mom, who I love very much, pulls this out. Literally claims to be a swing voter because she voted for Gerald Ford in 1976. Every other vote, at every other election (and she votes every time she can) has been straight Democrat.

    Democrats love this canard, they love it more then any other.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    "Well what's Romney going to do about Todd Akin?"

    Once he gets his grimy paws on the murder drone joystick, he'll solve the "Akin problem" once and for all.

  • John||

    http://www.realclearpolitics.c.....tion_.html

    Chuck Todd "The shadow of Bush and Katrina haunt GOP convention". So when New Orleans floods again and FEMA and the City fuck everything up again, the story will not be about Obama it will be about Bush and Katrina.

  • R C Dean||

    I saw that. Good lord, but Chuckles and the NY media are doing everything they can to keep the distraction memes going.

    Heard that the Dem convention is facing a li'l storm of its own. Right after their convention is when the August economic numbers, including unemployment, get released.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Don't worry. The BLS bureaucrats will lie their asses of to make Obama look better.

  • ||

    Syphilitic porn star speaks exclusively to syphilitic website

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/a.....scare.html

  • Proprietist||

    I was really surprised when the infected stars came out and admitted it publicly. Then I realized that's a great way to distinguish oneself from a glut and get lots of people to watch your videos.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    The entire reason this subthread is here is because P Brooks posted that Chris Matthews was crazy to think that Mitt is a secret racist based on "dogwhistling". And it does seem silly to scrutinize his speeches for dogwhistling when his entire pre-1978 experience as a Mormon is somehow placed off-limits for comment. That's all.

    But the Orthodox version of Chris Matthews' (secular) religion prohibits him from making vile exclusionist attacks on Romney's church. He has no problem, however, dismissing the very notion of legitimate arguments against Obama's policy vision; objections to a vast rejiggering of American society and the economic structure of the country cannot possibly be motivated by anything other than race. Because he is the one who is completely obsessed by race.

    I hear it almost every fucking day.

  • Proprietist||

    Jesus... if there was one city in America that needed more cops it would be Camden, NJ.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....latestnews

    On the plus side, perhaps it will be a perfect testing ground for a certain Somalia-influenced political ideology?

  • tarran||

    They are getting more cops - it's a union busting move to hire police at lower pay via the county.

  • The Late P Brooks||


    I Love It When I Wake Up In the Morning and Obama Is President

    Sweet Goatfucking Jeeziss on a cross of gold.

    "Personality cult? What personality cult?"

  • sloopyinca||

    This may seem petty to cop apologists, but it's theft in my opinion. Officer takes department vehicle on vacation. Taxpayers pay for lease, fuel and maintenance of vehicle.

    Officer not charged because he's going to retire anyway, and what's the point in charging him since the fedgov is paying the bills anyway?

  • R C Dean||

    Officer not charged because he's going to retire anyway,

    What on earth does his retirement have to do with prosecuting (or not) fraud/theft?

  • Coeus||

    In their minds, they really and truly believe that losing their job is a worse punishment than being put through the legal system. Really shows you the value they put on that authority, doesn't it?

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Don't forget dunphy routinely claims that firing cops should require due process, and that firing cops for statements they make is a constitutional violation of their First Amendment rights (as opposed to simply a good policy).

  • sloopyinca||

  • The Late P Brooks||

    What on earth does his retirement have to do with prosecuting (or not) fraud/theft?

    He promised to not do it anymore. That's the way it works for everybody.

    hth

  • Coeus||

    I swear to god these fucks are going to end up making me sympathetic to fucking pro-lifers.

    The title: Payl Ryan says rape is just another 'method of conception'.

    “In this case, when Ryan says ‘the method of conception’ is irrelevant, he’s talking about rape,”
  • R C Dean||

    But, weren't the prolifers saying the method of conception is irrelevant their ownselves?

    I am confuse.

  • R C Dean||

    I mean prochoicers.

    Whatev.

  • Coeus||

    Yes, but when he says it, it means he likes rape. Or something. Just as long as we're not talking about the economy.

  • Enough About Palin||

    Democrat Ben Akselrod, a candidate for New York 45th Assembly seat, sent out thousands of mailers to constituents forewarning about the increase crime in the “Negrohood”:

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-G.....hood-Crime

  • R C Dean||

    So, is that one of them there racist dogwhistles I keep hearing about?

  • Brett L||

    I'd blame Word, sue M$, and claim that Clippy is a racist.

  • Brett L||

    Javelins are for killing.

    BERLIN -- A German sports official died Monday a day after being struck in the throat by a javelin.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    I never got to throw for my HS track team because someone heaved one and it went right into some dudes right leg while he was warming up for the hurdles. Event vanished the next year.

  • Enough About Palin||

    We had a kid get hit in the head with a shot-put. He was never the same after that.

  • ||

    2. Mormons did not permit blacks to participate in temple ordinances and therefore did not recognize their marriages as valid within the faith.


    The first part is true (ie the temple thingy). The second is false.

    Both civil marriages and marriages conducted in a convert's former church were recocognized as valid. The Mormon church also conducts church marriages presided over by local authorities in local chapels which are every bit as valid as a temple marriage.

    The only difference between a church marriage and a temple marriage is that one is for life only and the other is for eternity.

    If you're going to rail on Mormon hoey make sure you get the hooey right. :)

  • John||

    And not all Mormons are even allowed in the Temple. You can be a Mormon without being a "Temple Mormon". Thus, you won't be getting married in the Temple. But your marriage is still valid.

    And you can't expect fluffy to get anything right on religion. He is too angry and bitter to think straight about it.

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