Thought it might be a good idea to give you H&R readers a thread to discuss the Ft. Hood shootings.
The latest as of this posting:
Here's the Google News feed, sorted by date.
After reading the name of the one dead gunman I can only say: I hope to GOD this doesn't turn out to be some terrorist-type thing. A couple random nuts won't generate too bad of a government blowback, but anything with an al-Qaeda taint ... no, not good at all.
Almost as fast as I thought.
With the DC sniper radical Muslim connection constantly ignored here and in MSM it is not a surprise either.
It's quite obvious Cheney ordered the Army to use top secret drugs to control this guy's mind.
Fuck.
Now comes the bizarre expansion of government taking advantage of a tragedy.
I had this weird thought that the congressional bedwetters will ban the use of firearms in the military. Yeah it's a profoundly stupid idea, but nothing our current govment does can surprise me anymore.
that's exactly what we should do...take all the guns away from the military. It's clear that they can't be trusted with them!
yeah. And ammo is kept seperate two. When I was in the army the only time I had my weapon AND ammo was when I was qualifying.
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Let everyone carry a gun and watch your crime rates drop.
The guy was a major in the US Army. I doubt he would ever have attained that rank if he was religiously nuts enough to go on a shooting spree for Allah. We'll find out.
The fact that he had accomplices (supposedly) seems pretty weird, though, unless they were actually trying to do something like boost the PX of all its cash.
Doesn't follow. So he can be nuts enough to go on a shooting spree for... what reason? And attain that rank, but he can't be a radicalized Muslim? That makes no sense. You'd also be surprised at how easy it is to get promoted to major nowadays.
The first thought I had was that it was some loser loner, probably a private who got smoked all the time by his team leader and probably busted down in rank. When I heard it was three guys I immediately figured it was terrorism. Now reading the guy's name it seems to point toward being religiously/culturally motivated. That he is a major is certainly a strange twist.
AFAICT, He is a psyche MD, so could have entered the army pretty recently at a high rank. I'm nervous about AQ infiltration into the Army now, and I would never have thought it possible before.
Uh, did I claim it wasn't? I stated my initial reactions based on the unfolding information. Calling that speculation is tautology. So Radley Balko wins what exactly? Did I even contradict what he posted?
It doesn't sound like a 'terrorist attack', but that was my reaction when they first reported three gunmen. Now they are reporting one gunman and two soldiers taken into custody for unknown reasons.
As JW says below, in this type of event the first reports are always error-laden.
Stop thinking nuts and start thinking infiltrator who was supposed to not arouse suspicion until time to attack.
Mmmm, maybe. But at this point it looks to me like it might be "sudden jihad syndrome."
Don't bother reading early accounts of this incident, or at least don't draw any conclusions (I'm lookin' at you Obama!). All accounts will be incredibly inaccurate and we won't get a reasonably correct accounting of events for several days, if ever.
On the contrary, the most informative reports on 9/11 and in OKC were the early ones, before the official narratives were pieced together.
Obama must have been behind it, 'cause some French guy made a video showing that butter doesn't melt when you leave the fridge open.
Jesus. Please let this just be a random nut. You think Bush was bad? Wait until Obama thinks he has to out tough-guy the GOP on this.
That said, I'll start taking bets now as to how long it is unitl some jackhole of a congressvermin introduces legislation to make sure that "no family should ever have to endure a tragedy such as this ever again."
I give it less than 24 hours. What say you?
I don't know, I'm thinking it will be 'til about Saturday. They don't want to seem insensitive, you know, using a tragedy to push their personal agenda (which happens to fly in the face of the Constitution and a recent Supreme Court ruling). Wait a second...
We seem to be facing a new phenomena in which individuals or small localized groups decide to carry out attacks without belonging to a centralized group or under any kind of command and control structure. It's more like members of a particular subculture just randomly attack everyone else.
Clearly this is made possible by the peer-to-peer communication of the internet which can create ad hoc communities that convince marginal individuals that they are morally justified in carrying out violence and that the community will applaud them for doing so. These communities are international in nature.
How do you stop such a decentralized attack? More importantly, how do you ever make peace? One observation that has stuck with me for many years was made by a military advisor who trained 3rd world anti-communist forces. He said, "The major purpose of military discipline is not to make people kill. People are perfectly willing to kill on their own. The true major purpose of military discipline is to stop them from killing after the fighting starts. You can't make peace unless all the soldiers ultimately obey the diplomats." How can we ever make peace against mass violence with no organization to discipline those who commit the violence?
On the eve of WWI, Churchill observed that, "The wars of the peoples will be more terrible than the wars of the kings," meaning that wars of ethnic-states would be worse than wars between groups of elites. I fear we may soon find that the wars of individuals will be worse than the wars of the peoples.
Shannon Love, How do you stop such a decentralized attack? More importantly, how do you ever make peace?
By recognizing who your enemies are, instead of participating in the West's death cult, the prime rules of which include nonconfrontation and treating as evil most human judgement and any religious judgement by white people.
By recognizing who your enemies are, instead of participating in the West's death cult, the prime rules of which include nonconfrontation and treating as evil most human judgement and any religious judgement by white people.
While I agree with the general sentiment, in this particular case I don't think getting rid of the liberals would do any good.
Take a good look at the Middle East. They've done this shit to each other for how long?
Modern technology has just made it so they can go international.
The biggest 'war of the peoples' had military deaths topping 16 million people on a single front, never mind civilian casualties and the other fronts (you start staring numbers like 60 million deaths in the face)
Somehow I don't think individuals have the gusto to do what was done in the name of Der Vaterland, thankfully.
We've got the technology where people are literally doing genetic engineering in their garages. Individuals or small groups can deploy massively destructive technology.
More gravely, these diffuse conflicts would have no end. Formal wars begin and end in a few years, these decentralized culture based conflicts could span decades or centuries because they can't be stopped by signing a treaty or occupying territory or defeating an army.
A diffuse war spanning the entire planet and that gradually degraded the world economy could over time easily kill far more people than the formal wars of the past.
True, but let's not be coy about "these diffuse conflicts." It's radical Islam. What other diffuse, large-scale conflicts are there? Aren't all other such conflicts these days very localized?
Remember the old thought experiment about going back in time and strangling Hitler in his crib? Imagine a world where Mohammed never lived. The Middle East would be largely Christian, partly Jewish, and maybe partly traditional Arab pagan. It's hugely non-p.c. to say so, but are there any non-Muslims who wouldn't bet that would be a vast improvement?
And here I thought I was the only one who'd ever entertained these kinds of fantasies.
Diffuse conflicts?
Ask you average gang-member or drug cartel member about never-ending diffuse conflicts.
And the Serbs and Croats, innumerable African tribes, Arab tribes, ad infinitum.
Shannon Love, How do you stop such a decentralized attack? More importantly, how do you ever make peace?
we need more pre crime analysts. NSA computers monitoring all internet comments to create lists of people who seem to not be properly socialized. The governemnt can then humanely attempt to re-educate these people we find are dangerous. We also need swat teams to be ready at all times to take out people amongst us who seem to have already cracked. People who have unflexable, dogmatic idealogies are should be watch particularly closely.
JW, this could be exponentially worse depending on his motivation. You can't ban guns on an Army base, so I think the anti-gunners won't have much to scream about. But if he was doing it for the 72 shorties in heaven, this is going to be nutty. And if he did it because he was nuttier than a fruitcake, expect some bullshit about how we need socialized medicine and it should pay for mental health visits and only if the troops were given better health care then you could get rid of your horrible wife. Something like that.
One report I saw said he was about to be shipped to Iraq. Maybe he really really didn't want to go?
[T]his could be exponentially worse depending on his motivation.
Great. The Spin Media will have a field day with this, determining the motivation for the tragedy. Wait for the forensic psychologists and psychiatrists and the tin-foilers to really dissect this to a absolutely inane conclusion with an infusion of hyperbole.
"You can't ban guns on an Army base"
You'd be surprised at how much gun control exists on a military base. It's been many years since I was stationed at Ft. Hood, but where, when, and how you could carry weapons was very controlled.
Furthermore, this whole event might have been slightly less tragic were the control of guns not so tight on a military base.
The first thing I thought when I heard about this was "how could someone get away with killing and injuring so many people on a base surrounded by guns?" I mean, the MPs have guns at least. Then I saw a photo of a SWAT team headed into the base to git 'im. Pretty weird when the cops who emulate soldiers have to go in to save the soldiers.
"You can't ban guns on an Army base, so I think the anti-gunners won't have much to scream about."
...and yet, they probably will anyway. As usual, certain special interests will be coming out of the woodwork to frame this tragedy to suit their own specific agenda.
I just heard on the television news that this Major Hasan was a "mental health professional." Curiouser and curiouser/
In my experience as Dr., only the most effective ones with the best outcomes with their patients tend to have fucked personal lives. Same tends to go for Drs. too.
House isn't a psychiatrist. And yeah, there is a fairly high rate of addiction and drug abuse in medicine and nursing.
Best surgeon I trained under made House look like a Tony sockpuppet.
Tons of drug and alcohol abuse. Further, the average lifespan of doctors is a lot lower than other people. And yet people listen to them about health? lol.
It's the hours as well, not to mention shitty diets, stress and the threat of being sued at the drop of a hat.
It would drive anyone bonkers.
(disclaimer: I also smoke cigarettes. I-rony huh?)
You can't ban guns on an Army base
Wrong. Guns essentially are (or at least were) banned on military bases already. I don't know if this was affected by D.C. vs. Heller, but it used to be that since it was federal property, state laws (like carry permits) did not apply. If you lived on post, you had to register your personally-owned firearm and store it in an arms room.
You are exactly right. It is a crime for anyone to bring a firearm onto a military installation. Even those (like me) who are licensed by the state are disarmed by the federal government to bring that gun onto the base (even though we drop bombs, control the nukes, etc.) Military bases are one of the best terrorist targets because we are sitting ducks. Does anyone else thing that is completely ridiculous? (A similar tragedy happened at Ft Dix a few years ago, I believe, but nothing came of it, personal protection-wise.)
You are exactly right. It is a crime for anyone to bring a firearm onto a military installation. Even those (like me) who are licensed by the state are disarmed by the federal government to bring that gun onto the base (even though we drop bombs, control the nukes, etc.) Military bases are one of the best terrorist targets because we are sitting ducks. Does anyone else thing that is completely ridiculous? (A similar tragedy happened at Ft Dix a few years ago, I believe, but nothing came of it, personal protection-wise.)
Also, wouldn't it seem odd if three guys armed only with hand guns would be able to shoot 40+ people if they were surrounded by armed and trained shooters? At Fort Bragg in the 1990s, a lone loser picked off a bunch of soldiers during P.T. until some Special Forces guys who happened to be jogging by tackled him. The gun ban on military posts is likely one of the compounding factors here, but I am somehow willing to bet that is conveniently lost in this story....
Agreed. They are really strict about all sorts of things beyond personally owned guns too.
The major is a "mental health professional".
Those people are the biggest fucking nuts.
Psychiatrists and psychologists are some of the most fucked up people on the planet.
The dead shooter was a mental health professional?
The Scientologists are going to have a field day.
Why Scientologists?
Most normal people realize how fucked up "mental health professionals" are.
What a terrible and senseless tragedy!
12 families devastated by the actions of 1-3 lunatics. Sickening
And possible some for the wounded as well...no news yet.
The nature of this with the additional suspects, an officer, and the ethnicity of the shooter, are going to make this a long-playing story.
Everyone will be able to parse something out of this to fit their own ideology.
This situation must be kind of problematic for the ban-guns crowd. Up next: cops go on shooting spree!
Anyway, very depressing.
My brother is supposed to report there in a couple of months to prepare to go "somewhere sandy".
This just in...It has been reported that the suspected shooter, Maj. Hasan, may have worked in the psychiatric area, i.e. mental health.
I sure hope the other two suspects, if actually involved, are named Mike Smith and Wang Chung--Methodist and Buddhist--otherwise, Congress and the president are going to do bad things to this country.
His correct name is nidal malik hasan and his alias is abduwali. Medical corps.
By the way, sympathies to the families and to the injured. What the hell is wrong with people these days?
These days? You get 300 million plus people, a couple million or so are gonna be nutjobs. Simply statistics.
Most of the "Islamofascists" are Sunni. al-Qaeda hates Shi'ites even more than they hate us.
But by all means, continue being ignorant.
You do know that the Iranian regime and Hezbollah are Shiite, right? They certainly fit the term "Islamofascist."
I was going to say the same thing but P-SF has already proven that he's just as ignorant as I am.
Hezbollah? Bah! A bunch of pussies who just play on the weekends.
What's wrong with all the stupid fuckers who can't drive and kill 40,000 people in the US every year?
Perhaps they didn't have any training in how to drive and kill 40,000 people every year. ;-)
"NBC News’ Pete Williams reported that U.S. officials identified the gunman as Maj. Malik Nadal Hasan, an Army psychiatrist who had been promoted to major in May."
Whoa, shit.
Might be worth noting that a psychiatrist is an M.D, so he came in as a (land-going) captain. That was his first promotion.
Doubt it was anything jihad related, more of a "postal" event rooted in frustration of seeing widespread psychiatric damage the war has caused Soldiers. I wonder if he has prior deployments? Medical corps officers don't deploy as often as Combat Brigades.
Possible that in the course of his psychiatric interviews ith soldiers that he began hearing lurid details of what some soldiers have done to his coreligionists abroad and got so incensed that he felt it necessary to strike back? I'm not suggesting that there is any coordinated lack of humanity among our troops, but rather speculating as to events that might have set this guy off after many years of service without any (thus far) reported incidents of troublemaking.
Guns are banned on Army bases.
Loaded guns are banned on Army bases in Iraq.
I think that needs to change.
By banned on Army bases, I mean banned in the same way as they are banned in NYC, you can have them if you are doing something "the authorities" are telling you to do.
Same thing in with loaded weapons in Iraq and Afghanistan. That is why the few times when insurgents have been able to get inside of a base, they have had easy pickings of US troops.
I think that is as wrong as beating your parents.
Your nerves? Well, hell, you're nothing but a God-damned coward. I'm not going to have a man sitting here crying! In front of these brave men who have been wounded in battle! Don't admit this yellow bastard. There's nothing wrong with him. I won't have a man who's just afraid to fight stinking up this place of honor! You will get him back up to the front.
This may be a case where a shrink snapped after hearing too much bad shit, and because he was the shrink he was able to recruit the most damaged individuals to assist him. He'd know how to get them to join him, right?
That's my feeling for how this will go. The shooter may be at least partially ethnically or religiously inspired as well, but I would not be surprised at all to discover that the other shooters are not Muslims but are among the guy's present or former patients.
Ding Ding Ding.
Looks like you and I were right Fluffy (eventhough we were slightly at odds in a prior thread today dealing w Gitma Detainee statements).
Per his cousin who was just interviewed on Fox News, it sounds like he was distraught from what he was hearing from people returning home from Iraq and Afghanistan, whether that be lurid details about what was done to the people of those countries or whether it be the sheer psychological impact of the wars upon the soldiers being sent there. Any ethnic/religious motivation would appear strictly rooted in his desire to perhaps protect his coreligionists from meeting the same fate that he had heard several of his patients discuss in their talks.
Also, Kay Bailey Hutchison who is being continually briefed on this event said that she was hearing that he was specifically targeting individuals at the start of this rampage. Perhaps stories he had heard from these individuals incensed him, or perhaps it was being verbally harangued by these individuals. Again, all speculative and I do not wish to suggest that the people he targeted deserved their fate being that I know not the details, but it seems like he had a motivation other than Jihad!
Psssst! Hey you Rhömites! Hey you Ernst Rhöm wannabes! I got it on good authority that the name of the killer of the 12 men, along with 31 wounded, is Dali Lama Goldberg -- a person of Bhuddist and Jewish extraction /s
But seriously, I knew the person who did the killing was one of your Muslim heroes who will kill my family for beliving they have the right to live in that zionist entity.
You guys so support the Muslim terrorists that you will probably find a way to rationalize this killing, too.
My Reasonoid buddies! Why don't we take bets whether the Muslim Community in the U.S. (all 1.8 million of them) will whine in self pity instead of expressing sympathy for Malik Nidal Hassan's victims? It is typical of the evil and self centeredness of the Islamic savages.
Remember when you guys made fun of me for doing this song? Well, I worked for Rabbi Meir Kahane, Zt"l and if people listened to him we wouldn't have been in the trouble we are in today.
"And thou shalt call him Ishmael and he will be a wildman. His hand against everyman and everyman's hand against him."
Genesis 16:12
"The Arabs are savages who just don't want to use their mind."
Ayn Rand
Underzog,
you and lonewhacko should hang out. You could argue about which
race of brown people is the worst.
UnderDipshit, you need to shake up your insults a little. "Rohmites" is kinda played out. At least do a horizontal move to "Mengeleites" or "Himmlerites" or something.
This is yet another argument for strict gun control. Obviously this guy had mental problems. If only we had the right laws in place (the ones the NRA always lobbies against) we could have made sure he didn't have access to guns.
I'd like the federal government to investigate thoroughly and find out exactly who was giving this guy access to weapons, and make sure they're punished accordingly.
He was an Army Major on an Army base.
He was the federal government.
Hmmm, are you suggesting that weapons should be taken away from the Federal government? That only individual citizens and corporations should be allowed guns?
Interesting idea.
The federal government was giving him access to weapons, so I'm pretty down with punishing the feds.
Moreover, the possession of weapons is strictly controlled on army bases. We trust these guys with weapons patrolling the streets of the third world, but we cannot trust them with weapons among their own peers?
It seems to me that the perpetrators of these attacks would likely have been a little deterred to going to war with an entire friggin army if said army actually had been permitted the operative root of army: ARMED.
Furthermore, STFU Lonewhacko
If only we had the right laws in place (the ones the NRA always lobbies against) we could have made sure he didn't have access to guns.
You evince a near religious faith in the power of the state to actually carry out your high ideals. You believe that simply passing "the right laws" that we can produce any outcome we wish.
Well, we can't. If we could we'd all be riding unicorns and eating chocolate cake for breakfast. Grow up.
I had chocolate cake for breakfast, and riding a unicorn is only a talented geneticist away.
I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't bet much on the idea that camel fucking is particularly safe.
I did address your argument Torpid (or other name ending in -pid). But I rather enjoy how instead of responding to those who did address your argument and pick out the one person who defended you thinking your remark was too assinine to be anything other than satire, and the one who just responded w a simply "fuck you" Would you care to address my points concerning the possession of guns on an army base to be more controlled than the DPRK state press? Of course not, because it would point out the absolute idiocy of your position. Either way, I'll stress it again: If members of the military, people trained to shoot and kill when being fired upon, were permitted to carry a pistol around with them, do you really think one lone gunman would be able to pick of 11 soldiers and injure another 31 before being shot dead? I sincerely doubt that. More proof that gun control = FAIL.
This is yet another argument for strict gun control.
Ha, that's a good one. Please explain to us how a system of gun control would work if even military officers who were also psychiatrists with M.D.s could not be trusted with guns. Does everyone get a psych exam with a gun license? Do you think a shrink couldn't pass any psych test you could come up with? Or do you ban guns and somehow ensure that absolutely nobody has one?
Yeah, that'll work. The unarmed guy says to the armed guy "GIVE me that gun because I SAID so." It's gonna work out just fine.
So will all the retarded Leftists now start shouting about how we should take all the guns away from the government?
JB-
"Leftists" like Tommy Jefferson often reminded us that we would be pretty foolish to give the gubmint any guns in the first place.
It was perpetrated with hand guns, but what the heck lets ban anything that looks like an assult rifle anyway.
And let's ban camel fucking while we're at it. Just for the amusement.
I wanna be there with a tape recorder when they charge the first defendant who violates this law.
For a magazine called Drink!, the commentariat seems to be betting oddly heavily against an act of religious wackjobbery...by a guy with a name about as religious-wackjobby as Ezekiel Ham Nimrod.
Well see the problem is that people here are foreseeing that religious nutjobs of one stripe will use this tragedy to show that all members of another religion are inferior and need to be group punished.
Kind of like what Underzog did upthread.
They will take this tragedy as evidence that the invisible guy in the sky is talking to them, and not the other guys. That the other guys are lying or wrong about their beliefs in the invisible guy in the sky.
Therefore government and law should be more obedient of the what the invisible guy in the sky tells the good guys. Specially when it relates to what the invisible guy in the sky says should be done about the guys with the wrong religion.
Sorry, that was kind of confusing.
kwais, Congratulations on doing exactly what you project on to other people.
Right - other than the fact that he didn't call for a group punishment, that is.
Cunt.
Right - other than the fact that he didn't call for a group punishment
Yes, banning religion is good for every individual. Reality leans athestic, after all.
Please quote the portion of his post where he called for the banning of religion.
Thanks.
I wouldn't worry about it. Neither does the guy you are trying to follow. If ya know what I mean.
It's always good to blame Ezra!
Meanwhile, from AP:
Federal law enforcement officials say the suspected Fort Hood, Texas, shooter had come to their attention at least six months ago because of Internet postings that discussed suicide bombings and other threats.
One of the Web postings that authorities reviewed is a blog that equates suicide bombers with a soldier throwing himself on a grenade to save the lives of his comrades.
“To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate. Its more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause,” said the Internet posting. “Scholars have paralled (sic) this to suicide bombers whose intention, by sacrificing their lives, is to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers.”
I hope the feds never see that post where I compared urinating on the president to feeding the homeless.
the commentariat seems to be betting oddly heavily against an act of religious wackjobbery
If it turns out this guy acted alone, I'd still want to determine if he acted to get virgins in Paradise, or to commit a political act of mutiny. Because killing soldiers because you want to go to Paradise is religious wackjobbery and killing soldiers because you oppose a particular military conflict is not.
Does anyone remenber how back in 1999, this airline jet piolt plunged his jet into the ocean of the east coast while shouting Allah Akbar over and over again and everyone wondered what the hell was that all about?
Test run.
Egypt Air.Nov2, 2009. The final transcript is interesting (last 5 pages of transcript. It gives the impression that the pilot shut off the engines to the horror of his crewmates. He keeps repeating, "I rely on God")
I don't see why it couldn't be both religiously and politically motivated. Like all acts of Moslem terrorism. The 9-11 attackers weren't just dreaming of virgins, they wanted to hit a country they despised for political reasons. Same with all the suicide bombers in Israel and Iraq, etc.
actually, the muslim American community has already condemned the attacks and called for full prosecution of any perpetrators:
Noting the Arabic nature of the gunman’s name, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a Washington interest group, condemned “this cowardly attack in the strongest terms possible and ask that the perpetrators be punished to the full extent of the law.”
”No political or religious ideology could ever justify or excuse such wanton and indiscriminate violence,” the council said in a statement. “The attack was particularly heinous in that it targeted the all-volunteer army that protects our nation. American Muslims stand with our fellow citizens in offering both prayers for the victims and sincere condolences to the families of those killed or injured.”
”No political or religious ideology could ever justify or excuse such wanton and indiscriminate violence,” the council said in a statement.
Right, they rely on descriminate violence. Killing other musselmen is a hate crime.
"actually, the muslim American community has already condemned the attacks and called for full prosecution of any perpetrators"
Standard practice.
CAIR doesn't speak for American Muslims. This is good given the half dozen or so senior CAIR members convicted of aiding terrorist organizations.
If they stick to their pattern, they will soon release a, "We condemn this act but..." followed by a long explanation of why this is all ultimately the fault of Zionist.
I'm curious, has the American Psychiatric Association condemned the attacks yet? That seems just as relevant as whether a Muslim organization has.
"In 2009, Hasan completed a fellowship in Disaster and Preventive Psychiatry at the Center for Traumatic Stress."
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/soldi.....id=9007938
a proposed amendment to ban Islam in America
The Jewish Defense League Marching song
"There's no need to fear. Underzog is here!" (and people should've listened to me and Rabbi Meir Kahane, Zt"l, too)
maybe you and your rabbi should go circle a city and shout for seven days and see what happens
There's no need to fear read idiotic juvenile posts
from nitwits, Underzog Eric the .5b's Indisputably
Non-Coercive Idiot Filter for Reason Hit & Run is here!
You should not be closing your mind to alternative viewpoints. Personally, I enjoy his rants notwithstanding the epithets he has hurled at me.
Then exchange email addresses.
When alternative viewpoints are either affected or insane, I feel totally free to close my mind to them. Just like I'm not going to invite the homeless guy who rummages through the apartment dumpster every night, ranting about how toilet paper is a government conspiracy, to my political discussion group.
Sounds like it would be a fun little group.
Your homeless friend has a point, but he's only half right. The TP lobby is in cahoots with Reynolds to build an aluminum superconductor.
Here is Dr. Hasan's whole biography: http://www.healthgrades.com/di.....708AB4.cfm
More info here: http://www.huliq.com/3257/8849.....alik-hasan
"...Major Nidal Malik Hasan is a graduate of Virginia Tech University, where he was a member of the ROTC and earned a bachelor's degree in biochemistry in 1997. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001. He worked at Darnall Army Medical Center, which is in Fort Hood. At one time he served at Walter Reed Army Hospital
Major Nidal Malik Hasan is also, according to Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchinson (R-TX), originally from Jordan. He was also, according to Hutchinson, going to be deployed to Iraq, and was quite unhappy about it. He was on active duty.
As a psychiatrist, it is unclear why Major Nidal Malik Hasan would have "gone postal," as this type of event is commonly called. That question may remain open for a considerable period of time..."
HE GOT TO GO TO UVA AND I DIDN'T!? I DEMAND SATISFACTION!
Jordan? Was he Jordanian or West Bank Palestinian?
He went to Virginia Tech. That is a different university. A clue is that it has a different name.
Ops.
Thank you ;)
I am not sure why the above does not appear to be English script to Squirrel.
libertymike,
an open mind is not to be treated like an open sewer. I try to
keep the toxic and stupid shit out.
Yes, there is a difference between an open mind and a hole in the head. ;-)
Ha ha ha.... You're so clever. When are you going to get your own sitcom?
Why would I do that when this one is available, complete with
trolls cartoon characters like you? ;-)
Are there any patriots here? Let's rally and sing The Star Spangled Banner
Yours truly leading, of course.
"There's no need to fear. Underzog is here!"
I'm amazed that pretty much everyone here is so quick to deny or downplay any possible Islamic connection. P.c. run amok.
You don't have to be a neocon Moslem-hater to be able to connect the dots here. Regardless of the precise nature of this guy's motivations, odds are it had something to do with his Moslem identity and/or religious beliefs.
Does anyone remember the Moslem convert U.S, soldier who killed several of his fellow soldiers with grenades toward the beginning of the Iraq war?
Btw, did we ever learn anything about the motivations of the D.C. sniper, John Mohammed?
I'm amazed that pretty much everyone here is so quick to deny or downplay any possible Islamic connection. P.c. run amok.
Really? In this fucked-up country of us, almost nothing amazes me any longer. If anything, I'm amazed incidents like this aren't happening MORE frequently.
The radical leftist P.C. scum that controls everything has pretty much already succeeded in destroying the country.
People have been saying our country has been destroyed (by one group or another) as long as we've had a country. They've always been wrong.
I would say rather than PC run amok, it is more a case of really really hoping that it is not (in any organized way) and Islamic terrorism thing. I am far more afraid of the government's response to this sort of thing than of any potential attack.
Here's my thinking: I'm more worried about the government going nuts if this guy actually was an al Qaeda sleeper or something else Islamic terroristicalish. I'm fine taking action against real threats, but I'm not fine about the end-runs around constitutional government we could expect in that case.
It shouldn't have to be said, but remaining true to our ideals and to the pragmatic benefits of a free and liberal society is far more important than conducting the WoT by any means necessary.
I'm amazed that pretty much everyone here is so quick to deny or downplay any possible Islamic connection. P.c. run amok.
Who's downplaying it? It's been acknowledged and (IIRC) nobody
thinks his religion should be ruled out as a motive. I will say I
doubt he's part of a major organization. Of course I
foolishly rationally thought that about Tim McVeigh.
I don't see why not. He is Muslim and committed a terrorist act. So he is an Islamic terrorist.
McVeigh was Christian and, if IIRC, of the fundamentalist variety and committed a terrorist act. So he is/was a Christian terrorist.
One is currently worm food and the other should follow suit.
Quickly.
Of course, "lapsed Catholic agnostic terrorist" isn't that catchy so nobody thought to use it.
McVeigh was Christian and, if IIRC, of the fundamentalist variety and committed a terrorist act. So he is/was a Christian terrorist.
Bzzzt. The phrase "Christian terrorist" implies that his terrorist acts were motivated by his Christianity. They were not. Nice try though.
Attempted Threadjack:
NYC Health Department distributes H1N1 vaccine to Wall Street Banks and NY Federal Reserve ahead of the sick, children and elderly.
http://www.reuters.com/article.....QI20091105
"The Arabs are savages who just don't want to use their mind."
[citation needed]
Slightly misquoted and out of context, Rand was discussing why she supported Israel, from http://www.aynrand.org/site/Pa.....b_conflict
Ayn Rand on Israel (Ford Hall Forum lecture, 1974)
Q: What should the United Sates do about the [1973] Arab-Israeli War?
AR: Give all the help possible to Israel. Consider what is at stake. It is not the moral duty of any country to send men to die helping another country. The help Israel needs is technology and military weapons—and they need them desperately. Why should we help Israel? Israel is fighting not just the Arabs but Soviet Russia, who is sending the Arabs armaments. Russia is after control of the Mediterranean and oil.
Further, why are the Arabs against Israel? (This is the main reason I support Israel.) The Arabs are one of the least developed cultures. They are typically nomads. Their culture is primitive, and they resent Israel because it's the sole beachhead of modern science and civilization on their continent. When you have civilized men fighting savages, you support the civilized men, no matter who they are. Israel is a mixed economy inclined toward socialism. But when it comes to the power of the mind—the development of industry in that wasted desert continent—versus savages who don't want to use their minds, then if one cares about the future of civilization, don't wait for the government to do something. Give whatever you can. This is the first time I've contributed to a public cause: helping Israel in an emergency.
Thanks. So the quote is actually "The Arabs... are savages who don't want to use their minds."
Huh. Kind of lost a little bit of respect for the Randster here.
FoxNews had the shooter's cousin on. Cousin stated that Hassan was U.S. born and of middle eastern heritage. He was a life long Muslim. He wanted to be in the military since childhood. He had become increasingly distressed about his deployment due to all the horror stories he'd heard from soldiers he was treating after they returned from war. He was alledgedly being harrassed and ridiculed for his heritage and his faith. He had met with a military lawyer about the harrassment and was rattling the chain of command to try to get out of his own upcoming deployment.
My assessment of this is basically the same as it was for the V.T. shooter. He was being bullied and harrassed and got what he felt was no justice through official channels so he dealt with it the way he felt was best. If he targeted the harrassers, he did so as his way of "winning." There are a lot of folks that are less than stable mentally and they, IMO, reach a point where they justify such actions. Not all of us have the ability to resolve conflict in a societally rational manner.
My assesssment is he was a hateful motherfucker who killed a bunch of people as part of his suicide.
I may be projecting just a bit. I've dealt with depression since I was a child and I have a real aversion to conflict.
I'm going to have to go with the Rabbit. Even if he was bullied these actions are that of a person with deeper issues. Be those issues conditioned or genetic.
I'm not in any way condoning his actions. Like I said up above, a lot of people are mal-adjusted and don't have the capacity to deal with some situations in acceptable ways. Jennifer Love cited studies yesterday showing that about 4% (IIRC) of males are at least slight sociopaths. That's a lot of guts walkin around ticking.
Jennifer Love cited studies yesterday showing that about 4% (IIRC) of males are at least slight sociopaths.
I'm not going to get all Szasz but wouldn't at least half of us libertarians have oppositional defiant disorder or some similar sociopathology?
No.
Libertarianism (contrary to what the trolls might think) is not a
"disordered condition or pathology".
It is a rational philosophy and response to a given environment,
in this case, political climate and how it threatens (or
protects) self.
Some Libertarians might have narcissistic traits (and one or two on this board might be more so anti-social based on consistent postings), but would hardly qualify for a full blown disorder.
ODD is a psych DX used in pediatrics, particularly school-aged children.
Ref: DSM-IV TR
Yep, CNN sez he is alive. That changes everything. Why didn't he have the common sense to shoot himself like all the others do?
no virgins? ultimate chicken shit that can kill others but too scared to off himself and face his perceived hell? Shot by a cop which most likely means 148 shots fired, 2 hitting the target, one in the leg and one in the ass.
Just some possibilities.
Still a shame and a disgusting action. Death will be a welcome reprieve from the hell that awaits him on earth if he lives.
I am very much glad he is not dead. I have always wanted to know what goes through the heads of crazy fuckers like this. Maybe we can learn something.
I don't relish suggesting this, but he may be more valuable alive than dead. But perhaps a little discomfort to his person might not be out of line, present injuries notwithstanding.
Islamo-fascists really don't need another martyr.
Oh, that's right. We don't waterboard anymore.
How are you right-wing gun nuts going to deal with the fact that this took place on a fucking military base? Soldiers are armed, aren't they? Shouldn't they have taken this guy out the way you morons fantasize you would if only you were allowed to carry guns?
I hate to agree with John's realdoll. Fuck you, moron. Soldiers on base are very disarmed.
Sigh...
Edward, my moronic, delusional entertainer, let me explain.
In the military, weapons are very tightly controlled. They are issued only to people who need them to stand watch or who are about to enter a combat zone.
Ammo is also very tightly controlled - only being issued right before use, and unless combat conditions make it impractical, every round has to be accounted for.
The early reports are that the shooting happened at a medical clinic.
There are no armed guards standing watch... Nearly all patients have no weapons assigned to them, and those that do are probably forbiddent from bringing them onto the premises.
Thus, a man with a gun walking into the area has a lower likelihood of facing armed resistance than walking into a bar off base.
This may seem shocking, until one realizes that the modus operandi for the military is to have a large number of draftees who don't want to be there, are being brutalized by their non-coms and hate the fucking officers. The officers and non-coms who came up with the culture of very strict soldier disarmament weren't stupid.
Tarran, you had me with you until the last paragraph. You do know that there isn't a draft any more, right?
That last paragraph makes it seem like you've been unaffiliated with the military for a veeery long time. There is currently no draft, there isn't any brutalizing going on at any level (I'm sure there are some that will say there is, but they typically equate being yelled at or a chest poke with brutality). There's not much officer hatred going on that I've seen.
Currently the reason for disarmament would be avoidance of liability and general safety. Accidental shootings of civilians don't play well in the press, and having real world weapons and ammo commonly available in what is primarily a training environment is pretty dangerous, particularly when training scenario's are developed to be as realistic as possible.
Cheers!
Sigh...
I'll explain. The military didn't radically alter its procedures vis a vis firearms after the U.S. government decided to stop actively drafting soldiers.
The procedures were the product of dealing with slave-soldiers, and haven't been altered very much since then.
I'm guessing you either never served in the military or were one of those disgruntled draftees you refer to. Not to disparage draftees in general; almost all were good people and good soldiers by all accounts. The shitbag draftee is mostly a myth created by the anti-war movement and perpetuated today by people who don't know any better.
I think I can explain the gun restrictive environment on Army posts. Army leadership has been inculcated with risk aversion from a lot of things I won't delve into here. The tight restrictions on firearms are due to high-ranking officers and NCOs looking out for their careers. They are a lot more scared of facing disciplinary action for allowing eighteen year old soldiers to drink in their barracks and play with guns than they are of their soldiers shooting them in the back.
Most officers and NCOs probably realize that if a soldier wanted to get a gun and shoot their team leader or platoon leader or battalion commander, they could very easily go off post to one of the many pawn shops, buy a pistol for next to nothing, and kill whomever they wanted. Like you said, they aren't stupid.
Sorry, I see below you said you served in the Navy. It's no wonder you think enlistedmen hate officers and NCOs, and that enlistedmen are chattel, as that pretty much is true in the Navy as far as I can tell.
The culture is different in the Army. Part of the reason might be that junior officers, NCOs, and enlistedmen mostly suffer through the same things. I've never understood why the Navy treats its EM like absolute shit though. Hold over from the days of the cat-o'-nine-tails?
Dealt with in comments upthread, I won't bother to save you the effort of reading them.
Indeed, talk about a kick in the pants (not to mention his Islamic honor) to be brought down by a woman.
I hope she picked up the check, then. That's nonsense when they ask you out and then expect you to pay.
From ABC Radio: He held the view that suicide bombers were like soldiers throwing themselves on hand grenades.
BTW, the woman who stopped him is still alive too.
What is this knuclehead's real name? He is a Muslim convert-why doesn't the press ask about his background or when/why he converted? He got the rank of Major simply because he is a doctor-they do not have to "earn" the rank.
As my men were fond of pointing out to me.
"Sir, you're an O-3, I'm an E-5... that means I was promoted two times more than you..."
He also claims that his cousin was systematically harrassed for being a Muslim. He's really hitting that point hard, which begs the question: At what time, specifically, was the shooter's cousin contacted by CAIR?
Why don't you STFU about CAIR until there is some actual evidence of their involvement, Gramps?
Actually that wouldn't surprise me; I encountered plenty of... ahem... emotionally stunted people in the military that worried me:
1) Some were people who just could not function - sad sacks who screwed up everything they touched and were reviled by their shipmates. One particularly extreme case tried committing suicide in a quarter-assed manner.
2) Then you had the bullies. Ran into one guy who hated atheists... Really hated them.... Though they were immoral people who couldn't be trusted. His chief was a racist who gave blacks shit jobs, fucked with their duty rotation, etc. I think one of the black sailors would have killed the chief if he thought he could have gotten away with it.
We has a guy freak out because he was the only non-fillipino guy in his work-center. Don't know who initiated the conflict (he blamed them, they blamed him) but after a few months, the CO had forbidden people from speaking any language other than English unless it was for a class or as part of their duties, and there was talk about what to do with the Phillipino mafia...
I left the Navy well before 9/11. I do know that since 9/11 there has been an influx of evangelical Christians who view the U.S. millitary as being God's instrument in a war between Moslems and Christians. These guys caused real problems in the Air Force Academy a few years ago. I could see that a Moslem psychiatrist would take a great deal of shit from them.
Thus, the claim that he faced religious harassment is quite plausible, although we should reserve judgment until the actual investigation results are publicized.
Do we know yet if he was being "harassed" for being Muslim or if it was really people reacting to his radical attitudes?
If the reports that he had been talking about joining the U.S. military since he was a kid, and had joined the millitary over his parents' objections, I doubt he was some jihadi. This is buttressed by the reports that he was not shooting randomly but targetting particular individuals.
My guess, and without the results of the investigation it's only a guess, he went postal because of a problem he had with his superiors.
As far as the blog post where he supposedly praised suicide bombers, it struck me more as an explanation of the suicide bombers' mindset in a term that made sense to Americans: most religions forbid suicide as being immoral, yet the guy leaping on top aof a grenade is considered a hero even if it is, technically, a suicidal act.
It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.
Looks like he was an MD major. I'm guessing this was his first post and he couldn't deal with the fact he may actually have to pay that government dime back with some unpleasant time doing shit you don't want to do.
This of course coupled with the fact he is a worthless twisted fucktard.
He was stationed at Walter Reed Hospital for six years prior to his being stationed at Ft Hood. He worked with soldiers wounded in action as well as those with PTSD.
Med school, internship, residency.
THe MD out of Bethesda is 6+ years. He was stationed at school.
I'm just waiting for Jack Thompson and Dave Grossman to blame this on violent video games. Or this. Or that. It's going to be open season for a scapegoat... *sigh*
I remember reading that during the Civil War, a huge fraction (like 15%?) of Union soldier injuries were due to accidental discharge of firearms. I've heard there were large numbers of similar injuries to US troops during WWII.
Odd as it sounds, keeping the guns and ammo out of everybody's hands on a military base on US soil (in absence of active invasion) might actually have some rationale behind it.
But keeping them unarmed in the middle of Iraq, or any other combat zone? That makes no sense.
Meanwhile, I also read that it's only been a couple of days since A.Q. put word out that people should attack the infidels (read: US and Europe) "at the grass roots level". It was a call to encourage isolated acts of terrorism. Would be interesting to know if this guy got the word.
I noticed recently more girls wearing hajab around Wilmington than usual. Think it is related?
Suki, you ignorant slut. Not that I hav a problem with the slut part. I'm pretty accepting of anything in hot Asian woman format. Except ignorance. Lay off the pipe, woman. Or I'll have to don my wifebeater, drink a quart of whiskey, and beat you upside the head with my shaky yet strong pimp hand. Recognize, beyatch!
Have anything but an ad homonym Star Wars Next Generation boy?
Go read what I was responding to, then read what I noticed. I have heard the same thing Ebeneezer Scrooge did in several reports over the past weeks. I also noticed what I noticed. Then I ASKED A FUCKING QUESTION YOU IGNORANT STAR WARS NEXT GENERATION FISH CHOPPING SYTH!
Wait. "Star Wars Next Generation"? You may have fallen afoul of copyright/trademark laws. I hope for your sake, Pro Lib doesn't find out.
His take on this story. A link to our little thread here and some appropriate erotica links.
"Ad homonym": To the word that is pronounced like another but has different meanings?
I have 7 loaded guns in my bedroom with me right now. None of them have ever gone of when I didn't want them to.
I carry with me in my daily activities a loaded gun wherever I go. It has never gone off by accident.
Nor do the guns the military have go off unless the trigger is pulled.
Accidents happen when people come to expect that weapons are unloaded.
If you were not posting so many other hateful things to me I would heart you for this most awesome comment.
Allahu akbar insha Allah he be shaheed, what a brave mujahid
I think this happened a bit too late to be included in Inayats publication about "great contributions by muslim soldiers for the empire".
I am going to say this...I just feel this.
I feel that there is going to be an attack on Muslims somewhere
in the US. Remember, tommorow is Friday in the states. I ask
Allah to protect the Muslims everywhere and make us steadfast in
the face of our enemies. Ameen.
The man must have been dreaming about qisaas 24/7.
The FBI have shot dead one of our brothers recently and they've arrested about 20+ of our brothers in the States (in the past 3 months) and these brothers are being kept in solitary confinement without any charges, i.e. they are still considered innocent until proven guilty. Do they honestly think they can continue in their oppression?? Indeed, the promise of Allaah is HAQQ and He, jalla wa 'ala, will bring an end to the dhalimoon! And He will do it in ways they could have never imagined. Allaahu akbar wa lillaahil hamd!
This shows that if a Muslim living in america truly desires to
participate in jihad and seeks martyrdom it is possible.
If this was an act of "war" it was a collosally stupid one...
The U.S. army inducts more troops every day than were killed or injured in the attack.
It will strenthen the resolve of Americans who view moslems as barbaric savages to be exterminated off the face of the Earth.
It doesn't bring about peace, it just expands war. What was the name of your religion again? ;)
9/11 was a collosally stupid one too, as is every time those childish Palestinians fire rockets into Israel.
The political spin on both sides of the aisle is going to be sickening. Instead of 13 dead human beings, they will become just a series of blood-soaked shirts for assholes to wave at each other.
It is a horrible tragedy. But, if it was done in the name of Islam, that is fairly important. Certainly, there is enough bed wetting whenever some nut shoots an abortion doctor. But when a Muslim goes bersker and shoots 12 people in the name of the jihad, I guess it is just bed wetting to be concerned about it.
Whenever there is violence committed by someone in this country, be it environmentalists, Christians, or whoever, it is incumbant on the rest of the people in that group to make it clear that they don't endorse violence and that this kind of thing is not a part of their movement. If Muslims come out and condem this guy and anyone who defends him, then it is just a one off and a sensless tragedy.
John,
Even if every Muslim in the country condemn him individually on video, it wouldn't satisfy some people.
So far, he seems like someone that became more radicalized over time, possibly from his work with PTSD soldiers. It becomes a chicken and egg problem: Did he embrace radical Islam because he was going crazy or did he go crazy from embracing radical Islam? The polar opposites will interpret it in a self-serving manner. I know this is inevitable, but it still sickens me.
I'd like to stick to facts at this point: Whatever else he is... he's proven himself to be a complete piece of shit.
He was clearly crazy. Embracing Islam was just a way for him to express his crazyness. This isn't really an isolated incident. The Muslim in Arkanas killed those people at the recruiting station. There were people in New Jersey arrested for plotting to attack Fort Dix. Also in Arkansas, there were people arrested for plotting to shoot down National Guard planes. There seems to be a concerted effort on the part of radical Islamists to attack military targets in the US.
That is a problem. I am not sure what we do about it, but I this is not a one off incident. There have been others and there will be others in the future.
It is actually worse that this guy is a lone nut. If it was an organization, you could solve the problem by just killing or imprisoning the people in it. But this is much deeper than that.
I don't see a sollution to the problem of the odd Muslim deciding to go die for the jihad. All you can do is hope the numbers are really low.
John, thats just silly. Do you really think this guy was part of conspiracy that involved every Muslim in America? What do you want US Muslims to do anyway? Individually condemn the shooter and put up the videos on youtube? And if they don't do this, does that mean they are somehow complicit?
So when someone blows up an abortion clinic, people who are against abortion have no duty to condem it and say that that is not acceptable? I somehow doubt that. How many attacks must there be before Muslims realize they have a problem in their community/ This guy didn't come from Mars.
Bake dem Jews in the oven penquin:
"What sugarfree said...."
It seems not every Muslim condemns his actions /sarcasm
Muslim from Hasan's Mosque expresses sympathy for Hasan's martyrdom
"There's no need to fear. Underzog is here!"
I wonder if his name had been Santos Sanchez or Lee Chun-Soo, people would be speculating about Mexican or Korean terrorists.
No, because there is essentially no precedent for that. If the imaginary Santos Sanchez was linked to La Raza, and had i-net posts about how they need to kill off whitey and take back their land, there would be questions to be answered about the threat that people like him might pose. Muslim terrorists have already proven themselves to be crazy, and a very real threat.
So Malik Nadal Hasan has definitely been linked to Al-Queda or Hezbollah or some other Muslim group then? Or is the all the speculation and bedwetting on display here merely because of his name?
I'm kinda thinking the latter.
Um...what in the world are you referring to? Did I or anyone else say he's been linked to anything? Did I even speculate on anything? I went back and re-read what I posted and I'm still utterly confused by your post.
All I said was that there wouldn't be the immediate questions for someone with a different name affiliation because of the lack of precedent. No bed-wetting involved.
No, you did not say he was linked to anything, nor speculated anything.
My point is that there is a lot of speculation and bed-wetting about this guy's motives based simply on his name.
What do any of us know about this guy except for his name? Nothing. Only in the last few hours have slightly more details come out. And I'm taking all that info with a big pinch of salt too.
Maybe if his name had been Paulie Giaranero, half the posts here would be speculating about mob ties.
Once again, not likely. There is no recent national news regarding mob hits. It's not near the top of anyone's worries. But nice try.
Hey, feel free to speculate all you want on minimal information. Most people do it. Most people are also fools.
I'll continue to remain skeptical of the "news" reporting on incidents like these for the first 24 hours or so.
Ravac, its not just his name. He blog posted sympathetically to suicide bombers. He repeatedly argued with his co-workers against the Iraq/Afghanistan war (not that I disagree), and defended their actions against the American military.
He shouted Allahu Akbar before he pulled the trigger.
It isnt just his name.
This is a direct result as to why Muslims should not be allowed into our military. Did his name not ring a bell? Oh yeah, this really makes sense to allow the enemy into our camp. This country is in deep trouble and yet we still keep trying to reach out to teh very ones who want to destroy us. Why is it so impossible for all the bleeding hearts out there to acknowledge the fact that muslims want us dead? Why is this concept so hard to see?
Admittedly, his post took it pretty far, but can you really argue that the military shouldn't look a little more closely at Muslims, because of the current world climate?
If he and his family werent allowed to immigrate, he wouldnt have beeen in the Army.
case in point.
False Flag Attack; When the government needs to keep a war going.
"hey guys...lets get a muslim...not jus t afake one, but one who dresses up funny...we'll kill a bunch of folks and blame it on him...the two other special forces shooters will get flushed down the memory hole. We'll characterize him as "anti-war" ya....that will do it...anti-war folks go on shooting sprees....LOL americans will eat that up!"
STFU Gabe. Seriously. STFU. Whatever it was, it wasn't a false flag attack. Stop insulting our intelligence and the people who were killed by claiming that it was.
"All those times we saw Hasan running down the street waving a scimitar and ululating, we just figured he was mocking our preconceptions."
Hey you Röhmites! Are you now saying that Ayn Rand does not agree with me and agrees with you in your support of Islamic terrorism against Israel and possibly America, too?
Here's what Ayn Rand said about your precious Arab/Muslims Ayn Rand on the Arabs and Israel
Ayn Rand also despised you Libertarians for your hippie irrationality; however, I find you amusing and always good for a laugh.
"There's no need to fear. Underzog is here!"
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