George Will Wants to Leave Iraq, Too

Matt Welch | September 3, 2009

The latest column from the country's most syndicated cut-and-runner:

After almost 6 1/2 years, and 4,327 American dead and 31,483 wounded, with a war spiraling downward in Afghanistan, it would be indefensible for the U.S. military -- overextended and in need of materiel repair and mental recuperation -- to loiter in Iraq to improve the instincts of corrupt elites. If there is a worse use of the U.S. military than "nation-building," it is adult supervision and behavior modification of other peoples' politicians. [...]

The [U.S.] advisers are to leave by the end of 2011, by which time the final two years of the U.S. military presence will have achieved . . . what? [...]

[I]f democracy is still just a glimmer that will be extinguished by the withdrawal of a protective U.S. presence, its extinction can perhaps be delayed for two more years but cannot be prevented. [...]

Two more years of U.S. military presence cannot control whether that is in Iraq's future. Some people believe the war in Iraq was not only "won," but vindicated by the success of the 2007 U.S. troop surge. Yet as Iraqi violence is resurgent, the logic of triumphalism leads here:

If, in spite of contrary evidence, the U.S. surge permanently dampened sectarian violence, all U.S. forces can come home sooner than the end of 2011. If, however, the surge did not so succeed, U.S. forces must come home sooner.

Link via Jason Pye's Twitter feed.

Comments

|9.3.09 @ 6:05PM|#

George Will is a racist.

|9.3.09 @ 6:18PM|#

A secular democracy in Iraq that respects human rights is, and always has been, a pipe dream.

I've been predicting for years on these very pages that Iraq's "democracy" will not surive for a year absent US troop involvement. Any claims of victory prior to that unlikely happenstance are complete bullshit. It's nice to see George Will come to the same conclusion, that all we're doing is delaying the inevitable.

Ray K|9.3.09 @ 6:37PM|#

George Will is not going to experience the Singularity.

|9.3.09 @ 6:45PM|#

Leave and tell them that if they overthrow their liberalish government, we're coming back and partitioning their asses. Otherwise, I'll feel guilty about Kurdlahoma.

TallDave Clone|9.3.09 @ 6:50PM|#

George Will is a traitor. Does he not understand that we can keep 'winning' forever? Victory is never saying you made a mistake.

GILMORE|9.3.09 @ 6:51PM|#

John-David | September 3, 2009, 6:05pm | #
George Will is a racist.

LOL
Wins thread

Cool Cal|9.3.09 @ 6:52PM|#

George Will is the Kwisatz Haderach!

But seriously folks, it doesn't help his case that he supported the war during the years of its more circumspect execution. Unfortunately, the only prominent conservative who unconditionally opposed "nation building" even as it was occurring under so-called conservatives, was the Statler to Rachel Maddow's Waldorf, Pat Buchanan, who doesn't exactly bring much else to the table in terms of principle.

anarch|9.3.09 @ 6:59PM|#

Mission accomplished.

kilroy|9.3.09 @ 7:00PM|#

"There are still civilians being killed in Iraq. We still have people that are attempting to attack the new Iraqi order and the move towards democracy and a more open economy. So we still have some work to do."

There are still civilians being killed in [the United States]. We still have people that are attempting to attack the [American] order and the move towards democracy and a more open economy. So we still have some work to do.

Shorter: We're never leaving.

Tricky Prickears|9.3.09 @ 7:33PM|#

...Pat Buchanan...

Pat Buchanan is a pure isolationist.

When did George Will move to Iraq?

Fluffy|9.3.09 @ 8:14PM|#

Last February Will was saying that withdrawing risked all we had achieved in Iraq and he disdained Democrats for even suggesting it:

http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/will021708.php3

After that, he was silent in his columns on the question of Iraq for the remainder of the election year. FOR THE REMAINDER OF AN ELECTION YEAR. He returned to the subject only in passing in a column in December.

It's transparently obvious that Will's sudden antiwar epiphany has only come about because a Democrat is in the White House.

The columns are still right, of course, but Will himself is reprehensible for the way he either reliably towed the GOP line or simply pretended the war[s] didn't exist until he could "safely" do so in opposition to a Democrat.

Doug|9.3.09 @ 8:15PM|#

Some people believe the war in Iraq was not only "won," but vindicated by the success of the 2007 U.S. troop surge.

The argument that the reduction in violence *proves* that the surge was successful has always left me dumbfounded. Frankly, I think it proves that the Iraqi military was incapable of policing their own state. Bailing out an ill-prepared military does not constitute "success" if the goal was to prepare Iraqis to stand on their own.

Fluffy|9.3.09 @ 8:45PM|#

Doug, the other problem with the quotation marks around "won" is that it makes it quite clear that Will thinks the people that reason thusly are quite daft.

It would have been nice of him to communicate this, when John McCain was making the "vindication" argument a centerpiece of both his primary and general election campaigns. But Will kept silent about it. And Will hates McCain, so that silence requires explanation.

$|9.3.09 @ 8:47PM|#

he either reliably towed the GOP line or simply pretended the war[s] didn't exist until he could "safely" do so in opposition to a Democrat.

Or it's now that he's being dishonest.

I'd think so, incentive-wise.

|9.3.09 @ 8:52PM|#

George Will is a smart guy, unless he's talking about modern culture ("jeans", cough).

He's only one of many pundits and poli's who have changed their mind. And although I was an early and unenthusiastic supporter of the Iraq war, I (and I can't be the only quasi-conservative who thinks this way) think we should get out now, too. And by "now" I mean about a year ago.
There is nothing more that can be done. And J sub D's scenario is unfortunately the most plausible.

|9.3.09 @ 8:55PM|#

Fluffy
GW was always pretty dubious (except in those halcyon days of early 2003 when nearly everybody thought it would be the greatest thing ever) about the mesopotamian adventure and most especially about the "nation building" part.

anon|9.3.09 @ 9:10PM|#

Wait, wait wait, hold up.

It's "tow the line?"

Tow? I thought it was "toe." As in, to put one's toes on the line, as in to follow it closely.

This isn't the case? This does make "towing the lion" make more sense. But I still like my interpretation much better.

Towing the line? That's fucking retarded.

kinnath|9.3.09 @ 9:22PM|#

I argued quite strenuously for the invasion of Iraq -- I thought it was quite justified. However, the neo-con, nation-building mindset that was driving US policy totally failed to realize that as soon as the war was won (meaning Iraq's army was defeated and its leadership removed from power), the number of ground troops needed to be tripled to maintain order in these recently conquered lands. The correct solution was to wipe out Saddam's forces, then walk away and tell the UN over our shoulder that they better get in there quick before all hell broke loose.

|9.3.09 @ 9:30PM|#

anon

In some exotic cyber-realms, "towing the lion" is expected for all intensive porpoises.

;P

|9.3.09 @ 9:35PM|#

kinnath

I see. Make a fucking mess, then leave it for others to clean up. It may have escaped you, but the people who are tring to kill one another in Iraq are fanatics who have little regard for the consequences of what they do. Just like you.

Fuck you and the Bush you rode in on.

Underzog|9.3.09 @ 9:44PM|#

I don't trust "the Messiah." He is trying to decimate our military. His solidarity is with his fellow Muslims.

Underzog|9.3.09 @ 9:47PM|#

"Pat Buchanan is a pure isolationist."

Pat Buchanan is not a pure isolationist. If he was he would not be calling for U.S. aid to Hamas (his mockery of Bush's mid east democracy plan).

Pat is an anti-Semites like some of my buds at... you know where.

Pat despises me like some of my playmates on this board do. And to think in 1983 I met him and his lovely wife and wished him luck in his upcoming debate against Barney Frank (D Mass.).

I would not wish Pat Buchanan luck again. He did not seem so anti-Semitic to me then.

"There's no need to fear. Underzog is here!"

Hugh Akston|9.3.09 @ 9:50PM|#

Wow. How do you guys expect me to follow that?

|9.3.09 @ 9:54PM|#

If there is a worse use of the U.S. military than "nation-building," it is adult supervision and behavior modification of other peoples' politicians. [...]

This is especially difficult in a society that has a very different foundation for there social mres and values. Correct me if I am wrong but from what little knowledge of Islam that I have, it isn't very compatible with a western democracy style of government.

|9.3.09 @ 9:54PM|#

dammit, should have been social mOres and values.

|9.3.09 @ 10:07PM|#

brotherben @ 9:54

"Correct me if I am wrong but from what little knowledge of Islam that I have, it isn't very compatible with a western democracy style of government.

Not sure I buy that. Western democracy evolved over several hundred years. 400 years ago, one could have made a similar argument about Christianity as the various factions slaughtered one another in the name of Christ.


Certainly, the freedom of speech and other freedoms peoples in the western democracies today were nowhere in evidence back then. Milton's great essay Aeropagitica argues eloquently for freedom of speech - except for Roman Catholics. A man was hanged in Scotland ca. 1700 for denying the existence of god. Sunday blue laws persisted throughout the western democracies until the 1970s.

|9.3.09 @ 10:17PM|#

Aresen, good comments. I guess to tie it into what I said, I really don't want us standing there holding the hands of Iragis or Afghanis for the next three or four hundred years hoping they will change like we did. To me, it really is none of our business how they govern their country and we were and are being willfully ignorant to think they are gonna just become the country we want them to be in a few short years.

|9.3.09 @ 10:22PM|#

It's "tow the line?"

No, it is "toe the line". "Towing the lion" is a running gag here.

Thank god, Underzog is here. And I thought this thread would be devoid of insanity.

Sunday blue laws persisted throughout the western democracies until the 1970s.

You still can't buy alcohol on Sunday in MA, CT, or RI. Actually, MA may now have Sunday sales.

|9.3.09 @ 10:54PM|#

botherben

Actually, I think us staying there will retard, not accelerate, the change to democracy.

Nobody likes being told to do something "for their own good."

Hugh Akston|9.3.09 @ 10:56PM|#

Nobody likes being told to do something "for their own good."

I know 69,456,897 voters that might disagree with you Aresen.

|9.3.09 @ 11:01PM|#

Is there some unwritten rule that says the rightwing can only have a brain when the dems are in office?

|9.3.09 @ 11:04PM|#

TrickyVic, it isn't a brain. It is a salespitch.

|9.3.09 @ 11:05PM|#

I know 69,456,897 voters that might disagree with you Aresen.

Shouldn't that be 69,456,897 + 59,934,814 = 129,391,711?

Douglas Gray|9.3.09 @ 11:42PM|#

When the Muslims ruled Spain, it was considered a golden age, where Jews, Christians and Muslims co-existed, not in a perfect state of equality and rule of law, but reasonably well for the times. So, the Muslim faith per se is not the problem.

The LAPD has had only limited success in achieving "success" in South Bureau. How can we expect the U.S military to magically create a safe and just society in Iraq?

How about something more believable, like Jack and the Beanstalk.

guy|9.4.09 @ 3:23AM|#

You can't buy liquor on Sunday in TX, nor can you go to the shopping mall in numerous places all around the country.

PicassoIII|9.4.09 @ 3:45AM|#

Cool Cal wrote:
Unfortunately, the only prominent conservative who unconditionally opposed "nation building" even as it was occurring under so-called conservatives, was the Statler to Rachel Maddow's Waldorf, Pat Buchanan..

Um, Ron Paul?
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2002/cr091002.htm

Tricky Prickears|9.4.09 @ 5:21AM|#

You still can't buy alcohol on Sunday in MA, CT, or RI. Actually, MA may now have Sunday sales.

Add Gloucester City, NJ to that. At one time it had the most bars/sq. mile in the US. Correction, you can buy alcohol in the liquor stores, but the bars can't serve alcohol.

edna|9.4.09 @ 8:04AM|#

Unfortunately, the only prominent conservative who unconditionally opposed "nation building" even as it was occurring under so-called conservatives, was the Statler to Rachel Maddow's Waldorf, Pat Buchanan, who doesn't exactly bring much else to the table in terms of principle.

john derbyshire? not only did he oppose it, he opposed it strenuously, loudly, and articulately right from the beginning, and in direct opposition to the editorial policy of the magazine which writes his checks. unlike pitchfork pat, derbyshire is no bigot.

btw, as an austinite, i can attest that one can indeed buy alcohol in texas on sunday. just not before noon.

|9.4.09 @ 8:11AM|#

Fluffy already said it better, but George Will is clearly flip-flopping due to who is in the White House. These arguments could easily have been made years ago.

George Will was one of the few pundits I respected. Not anymore. Still glad he's tooting the withdrawal horn, but it's too late to retain my respect.

hurlybuehrle|9.4.09 @ 9:14AM|#

Abbreviated George Will: Do as I say. Not as I said six years ago.

And MA has limited alcohol sales on Sundays. Roughly from about noon to 5pm. Bars don't appear to have any restrictions as to when they can serve. Overall it's MUCH less strict than PA, where I grew up.

kinnath|9.4.09 @ 9:15AM|#

Fuck you and the Bush you rode in on.

I never supported Bush. But thanks for caring.

robc|9.4.09 @ 10:08AM|#

You still can't buy alcohol on Sunday in MA, CT, or RI. Actually, MA may now have Sunday sales.

Ditto IN. I can in Louisville. But that is because we are more progressive than New Englanders.

JB|9.4.09 @ 12:10PM|#

You still can't buy alcohol on Sunday in MA, CT, or RI. Actually, MA may now have Sunday sales.

Retarded puritan bullshit.