New at Reason.tv: Would ObamaCare Cover Sticker-Shock Treatment?
We hear the trillion-dollar figure all the time, but how much would ObamaCare really end up costing? If we've learned anything from previous government programs, it's that the actual price almost always shoots far beyond the advertised price. Is there any reason to think things would be different this time around?
Approximately 3 minutes. Written and produced by Ted Balaker. Associate produced by Nate Chaffetz and Paul Detrick.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time.
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psssssst
pssssst,
psssssst, the money isn't real so the cost doesn't matter. -
A trillion here, a trillion there and pretty soon it adds up to real money. And Zimbabwe.
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What you wingnuts don't understand is that by funding bread and circuses, the butter and peanut industries are being stimulated to produce, which results in increased jobs.
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What you don't understand is that causes inflation. Which will be a band aid when stitches were needed.
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my wife who works at a bank gave me this little gem
Money isn't real anymore. It's just numbers and dirty peices of paper. -
DO the writers who work for Reason magazine and reason online pick their own topics to write about? The reason i ask this is because there have been a slew of them lately, granted it's a major issue, but this and the two subpar articles from your newest intern made me wonder. Is someone giving you talking points to cover? A boss or sponsor maybe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl91YF1d3Kg
I watched this because a few commentators, John probably, but i know he's not the only one who thinks this way. They stated that Rachel and keith were scared and knew their bullshit was being called on or some lame shit like that. I don't watch cable news, but i came across this clip and i watched it.
How low will Reason sink? You can insult the intelligence of people like John and get away with it, and the usual readers will nod and continue to feed their Obama = boogy man fears, but anyone with a twelfth grade reading level should be able to laugh at some of the crap that's been posted here since November.
Get a Scrip for Xanax and grow up. I'll get my Balko directly from the Agitator, but sod this place. -
How low will Reason sink?
How long can I nurse this DRINK?
but sod this place
Even animals know to go in the corner. -
Nice thought, Ted; but I suspect your law would just create a larger cronyism of highballing. How about cutting to the chase: Any member of Congress (...) is forbidden from running for re-election.
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NLE: I agree with you completely. I'm really surprised that Reason is taking that side on this issue. I have been a fan of reason.com for years, and it boggles my mind that they could be in favor of the status quo with respect to health insurance. That's the definition of unreasonable.
Either the writers (well, the few you mention) at Reason are stupid, or they've been bought and sold by health insurance companies. I don't think they're stupid. So... -
Being against Marxism by the drink isn't a defense of the status quo, but a defense of what small sliver of liberty might be left in healthcare. There's a ton wrong with the current situation, but that's not any reason to double down on what is the worst part of the system: Government manipulation.
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The core argument of the video is dead on, but it should be 30 seconds, not nearly six times that long. Ditch most of the stock footage, show small dollar/big dollar estimate/actual costs for every example, and end with Obama's trillion dollar estimate and a larger outlined bill with a question mark in it symbolizing the likely actual cost.
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" it boggles my mind that they could be in favor of the status quo with respect to health insurance"
wow what a deliberate misstatement of facts. I've never read a single article defending the status quo. Actually I've read plenty that argue we need to get customers and providers back in direct contact in a market system, which we don't have now with employers forced to provide insurance and no one knowing what medical costs truly are, and costs skyrocketing as a result of that and subsidizine medicare and medicaid which both underpay.
No, I've never read a single article defending the status quo, but merely disagreeing with the particular reform Obama is proposing. But I guess disagreeing with that automatically means defending the status quo in your eyes. -
being against 'reform' means you want poor people to get cancer, you're a racist because the president is black, and the insurance companies are paying you to protest while simultaneously denying you coverage for your pre-existing condition.
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But I guess disagreeing with [Obamacare] automatically means defending the status quo in your eyes
No, plutosdad, it means you hate old people and puppies, and whatever you say is just a devilish capitalist plot to confuse the poor "100 million" uninsured who are "sufferin'", 'cuz they aint got no pills to help them with their "diabetuhssss" [aka huge fatness].
You probably don't hate smokers either, don't you?! You capitalist slime! -
What is it that Obama has proposed? He'd like a public option. It's up to Congress to write the law. I wish Obama would participate more in the process, draft his own law and put it out there. "Obamacare" is codeword for "whatever healthcare reform the democrats are talking about and/or ultimately pass." It doesn't refer to any particular plan, because there IS no plan.
So, by opposing "Obamacare" Reason is most definitely defending the status quo. Well, at least the couple of Reason's writers who are opposing "Obamacare." There may be some other writers here who are not so unreasonable. I'd hope so. -
""Obamacare" is codeword for "whatever healthcare reform the democrats are talking about and/or ultimately pass." It doesn't refer to any particular plan, because there IS no plan."
-BruceM
Obama has been actively pushing and campaigning for the THOUSAND PAGE PLAN put out by the democrats. It is the PLAN he wants to see pass and therefore is essentially "his PLAN". Otherwise he would veto it upon arrival.
"So, by opposing "Obamacare" Reason is most definitely defending the status quo."
-BruceM
No its not. -
From the article linked in my name and the I-slept-in-a-holiday-inn-last-night dept:
The previously-mentioned TechSkeptic just wrote an excellent post about the bizarre US health-care-reform situation. In brief, opponents of real reform are standing next to their rusted-out AMC Gremlin and insisting that all it needs is a lick of paint and some new seat-covers to be as good as any other car in the world today. And you shouldn't believe what people from other countries tell you about the cars over there, because that's all Communist propaganda.
I'm on the other side of the planet, and so don't actually spend a lot of time thinking about the plight of sick Americans. But I do watch The Daily Show, and the US health-care situation is an interesting example of a common problem.
I wonder if the USA will ever find its way out of this mess, where elected representatives choose talking points that are blatantly counterfactual, safe in the knowledge that a bunch of right-wing authoritarian voters (I strongly recommend Bob Altemeyer's book The Authoritarians, which is a free download) will believe them. This "authoritarian follower" population gives the cheerful promulgators of all sorts of lies guaranteed support from that ironclad 30% of the US population that never gave up on Dubya. And, often, a lot more than 30% of the US voting population fall into line.
There's a lot more behind the weird American authoritarian hatred for anything-called-socialism than mere common-or-garden cognitive dissonance, though. Bob Altemeyer has, for more than 40 years now, been doing psychological research on why authoritarian followers and their usual leaders, "social dominators", behave in the way that they do. He's ended up with a very large stack of evidence of far higher quality than is usual in the social sciences, and discovered some very surprising things. Once again - read the book. I found it entirely fascinating, and often blackly hilarious.
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Isn't Altemeyer the one who created his own definition (and indicators) of "Authoritarian" so that only conservatives could satisfy it, and then proceeded to do a bunch of survey research to "prove" that the Bushitler regime was being run by anti-democratic despots and the sheeple who follow them? I think there was a review of this book in Reason some time back, but I'm too lazy to search the archives.
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Because the people who said there was no problem with the economy can be trusted to present an informed decision on healthcare, especially when they parrot republican talking points, but steadfastly claim they aren't republican. Confused you bethcha
I think Reason is very much vested with defending the status quo, i think Gilesppes(sorry) comment about crony capitalism is better than crony socialism is very telling. I'm not sure what crony socialism is on the horizon, but we've had at least twenty years of crony capitalism. In a crunch i believe Reason will sacrifice the individual for corporatism. There's really no other conclusion if you've been reading here the past few months. HOw quick are people to defend laws protecting corporations/lenders at the expense of the individual will Reason support. Do a search for bankruptcy, credit cards, or student loans, and the answers will be illuminating. Reason's version of "there outta be a law." -
Look on the bright side, at least you can start putting those Cosmotarian rumors to rest. Unless you act differently when you aren't with the boys.
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I have no idea who's paying Reason what (and frankly couldn't care less). But it's stunning to me that you'd question a libertarian magazine's fight against increased government control.
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(Not "question" as in disagree with. "Question" as in doubt motivations.)
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I have been a fan of reason.com for years, and it boggles my mind that they could be in favor of the status quo with respect to health insurance.
I think Reason is very much vested with defending the status quo . . . .
I know this was published way back in July 2009, so you may not remember it, but Ron Bailey's Markets, Not Mandates: How medical markets would improve health care and reduce costs seems inconsistent with those statements. A few selections:[L]et's take a moment to dream: What would real reform look like? It would be consumer driven, transparent, and competitive. . . .
Third party payments are the main source of dysfunction in the American health system. . . .
So the first step toward real reform is to give consumers responsibility for buying their own health insurance. The employer-based health insurance system must be dismantled . . . . -
Tom,
Boo hoo hoo boo hoo hoo
Sorry i think past the knee jerk reaction.
Oh, and the opinion that without Big government we wouldn't have corporations with too much power over the individual is the biggest fallacy i've ever heard. Frankly, i've made the decision that there are some things i rather have the government do. The government (wow i can't believe im defending leviathan) isn't the villian in this scenerio (economic and healthcare) Regulatory capture is a problem, but im more concerned with whos done the capturing first, and the incompetant officials second. Shrinking govt. which needs to be done, isn't the cure all for the ills we now face. -
Oh, and the opinion that without Big government we wouldn't have corporations with too much power over the individual is the biggest fallacy i've ever heard.
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Oh, and the opinion that without Big government we wouldn't have corporations with too much power over the individual is the biggest fallacy i've ever heard..
Right off, a fallacy.
Big corporations don't have power over anyone. You can buy their product, or not. You can work for them, or not. Your choice, as long as the government isn't backing them. -
Most people worry about hooligans at soccer matches, but now it's starting to surface that conservatives are fielding hooligans at Town Hall style meetings, especially the ones that are related to health care reforms. Protesters are being dispatched to meetings where health care, or Obamacare as it's called, is being discussed in order to stifle discussion. A recent episode of the Rachel Maddow show got a memo from Think Progress intercepted from conservative think tank, Right Principles in which they outline how to do it. This tactic has been used before, notably during recounts in the 2000 election. No one likes hooligans, and the rest of us end up needing fast cash to undo their damage.
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Obama Pretty Blatantly Lies About Single Payer at New Hampshire Town Hall
"I have not said that I am a supporter of a single-payer system," Obama tells the crowd in New Hampshire.
The Wall Street Journal's Washington Wire, August 19, 2008: "Obama Touts Single-Payer System for Health Care"
Barack Obama said he would consider embracing a single-payer health-care system, beloved by liberals, as his plan for broader coverage evolves over time.
"If I were designing a system from scratch, I would probably go ahead with a single-payer system," Obama told some 1,800 people at a town-hall style meeting on the economy. -
hey obama wtf
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I have to vent. I saw a headline this morning that said Obama to "act" to save safety net. He doesn't "act" to save $hit! Nor does Congress. They merely steal from some citizens and give the loot to their constituents. The people who truly "act" for the benefit of others are the wealth-generators, the victims of this highway robbery! Yet the Obamatrons take all the credit for "acting" on behalf of the poor.
Speaking of poor, a stupid thing I hear on NPR this morning: poor are families of 3-4 that make a mere $50k per year. Clueless!!!
Another stupid thing from NPR yesterday. When an "expert" was asked if states are forced to pay caregivers less than private insurance companies for the same care, would the caregivers not be motivated to decline to provide care to patients covered by the Public Option, the "expert" stated that the doctors might have to call a "friend" to see if he/she would be willing to provide care for the patient. After that idiotic reply, the interviewer moved on to the next question as if that were a reasonable answer. OMG WTF!!!
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Pardon my poor grammar on the previous post.
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