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"None of our freedoms are absolute, and the freedom of expression is not absolute"
That's from
Florida Republican state Rep. William D. Snyder, defending the
arrest of two Florida men for displaying alleged gang hand signals
on their Myspace pages. Not that those men have been charged with
any gang-related crimes, mind you, just with posting
pictures of themselves making hand signals. As The Naples Daily
News
reports:
Their arrests came weeks after a new anti-gang law hit the state books. House Bill 43, a 95-page bill that created or tweaked some 35 different statutes, stiffened penalties for gang-related crimes, upping certain charges when a documented gang member is involved.
One of its statutes applies to "any person" who uses "electronic communication ... to intimidate or harass other persons, or to advertise his or her presence in the community." The law covers Web sites, e-mail, faxes and texts, among forms of media.
The Lee County prosecutions appear to be the first in the state, according to officials with the Florida Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. The law itself is unique across the nation, according to the National Gang Center, a federal program that tracks anti-gang legislation and methods.
(Via Overlawyered.com)
Cabeza de Vaca|8.4.09 @ 8:47AM|#
Florida Republican state Rep. William D. Snyder should be arrested for gang activity. His gang is the second most powerful criminal organiztion in Florida.
|8.4.09 @ 8:51AM|#
This is bullshit. Snyder should know damned well that arresting
someone for flashing a gang sign is a first amendment violation,
especially when they're not flashing it at anyone in
particular.
-jcr
robc|8.4.09 @ 8:54AM|#
5 seconds.
that is how long the appeal lasts. The dumbest judge in the
universe throws this law out.
However, I realize it might be possible for a judge in Florida to
actually be dumber than the dumbest judge in the universe (this
seems like a contradiction, but this is Florida), so
youneverknow.
kilroy|8.4.09 @ 9:01AM|#
So when this gets thrown out do the defendants get any kind of reparations? Do they at least get a free kick to Snyders balls?
creech|8.4.09 @ 9:03AM|#
Is there, like, a website one can go to see what all the gang signs are so that one doesn't inadvertently use one? I hear the "Libertarian Gang" frequently uses the middle finger salute when confronted with overzealous LEOs, pols, judges, self-important busybodies, and the like.
Tomcat1066|8.4.09 @ 9:06AM|#
I've got a sign for Snyder. It ain't a gang sign though. It's my middle finger upraised as a salute to his idiocy.
|8.4.09 @ 9:06AM|#
The gang members should vote with their feet and move to a more gang-sign-friendly state.
|8.4.09 @ 9:09AM|#
Regarding former cop and current Rep. William D. Snyder, I wonder how he would feel if a law passed preventing law enforcement veterans from serving in the statehouse. I'm sure he'd find a new appreciation for the Constitution then.
Jozef|8.4.09 @ 9:18AM|#
I googled for the "Latin Kings" gang signs and didn't find anything special with them. They are flashing the number 19 in binary (10011), as anyone who counts binary on his fingers can immediately see (doing this is so much more efficient than counting in decimal - you can display up to 31 on a single hand). As far as I know, 19 is a pretty harmless number...
T|8.4.09 @ 9:21AM|#
I guess Rep. Snyder's freedom from being set on fire isn't absolute, then? Good to know.
Canter|8.4.09 @ 9:37AM|#
"Is there, like, a website one can go to see what all the gang
signs are so that one doesn't inadvertently use one?"
http://jonathancarter.co.za/files/images/geek_gang_signs1.jpg
Rocky|8.4.09 @ 9:37AM|#
kilroy | August 4, 2009, 9:01am | #
So when this gets thrown out do the defendants get any kind of
reparations?
Yes. Free tattoo removal, weight-loss program for their bitches,
day-care for their (known) spawn, and a belt.
Art-P.O.G.|8.4.09 @ 9:37AM|#
Freedom's a great thing and all but gangbangers suck ass.
Yeah, but last I checked, the gang-affiliated still had
rights...
...or did they?
|8.4.09 @ 9:51AM|#
Hit&Runners need a gang sign. The double bird or the
wincing shrug might do.
No, NutraSweet:
This, for what the government does to us.
|8.4.09 @ 9:58AM|#
One quick look at the party pics of any college student's facebook or myspace would lead to 1000s of arrests.
|8.4.09 @ 10:07AM|#
Hmm. That's not my definition of "fisting".
I was trying to be...reasonable.
This is for you.
Brian Sorgatz|8.4.09 @ 10:12AM|#
Florida doesn't believe in free speech. That's where cartoonist Mike Diana and rappers 2 Live Crew were charged with obscenity. Why does Florida hate the American way of life?
|8.4.09 @ 10:12AM|#
It strikes me that the cops could claim that just about any
movement or gesture of the hand or head or, for that matter foot or
knee was a "gang sign".
They likely wouldn't get many convictions but they could harass the
shit out of a lot of people for a long time.
|8.4.09 @ 10:15AM|#
Your weird obsession continues, Epi. Do you eat too much
cheese?
I try to counter it with lots of fiber.
They likely wouldn't get many convictions but they could harass
the shit out of a lot of people for a long time.
That would seem to be the point.
Michael|8.4.09 @ 10:21AM|#
Call me crazy if you must, but the first thing that came to mind was the possibility of someone suffering from multiple sclerosis or similar spastic disorder getting nabbed under this kind of statute. Most of us are already well aware of the discernment capabilities some arresting officers have displayed in recent memory.
|8.4.09 @ 10:25AM|#
"None of our freedoms are absolute, and the freedom of
expression is not absolute"
Yes it is, you cum-guzzling gutter slut.
JD|8.4.09 @ 10:33AM|#
Wow, you'd almost think Snyder was intentionally channelling Chavista functionaries... Someone should tell him that; it might make his head explode.
Cliché Bandit|8.4.09 @ 10:35AM|#
Has anyone thought of arresting that stupid representative for
treason? To the point about it getting thrown out, that is
irrelevant. The fact that this jackass could get that law passed in
the first place and that no one seems to have a problem with it
down there means eventually it will be held up in court. Remember,
it is for the "children".
The tree of liberty...blood...you get the
idea*
* For fear of printing gang related rhetoric which is,
evidently, not an absolute right I have redacted any possible
offending phrases. Sorry for the inconvenience.
|8.4.09 @ 10:36AM|#
someone correct me if i'm wrong, but IIRC the feds outlawed the tradmark of the Mongol's MC and were granted confiscatory powers of members' patches and vests with the logo on it. So if you're of this motorcycle club and you're pulled over by an LEO, they can take your jacket from you or your bike (if it had the logo).
kilroy|8.4.09 @ 10:42AM|#
"I was trying to be...reasonable. This is for
you."
The text in the URL was enough.
Drink!
The Angry Optimist|8.4.09 @ 10:53AM|#
the Floridian government should be subjected to a massive Sec.
1983 lawsuit for civil rights violations.
And if anyone wants to tell me how to effect a citizens' arrest for
treason, I would really think about it.
|8.4.09 @ 10:56AM|#
Yeah, you can call it freedom of expression, but the first
amendment is a restriction on government. Congress shall make no
law...
That's pretty absolute.
Rhywun|8.4.09 @ 10:59AM|#
One quick look at the party pics of any college student's facebook or myspace would lead to 1000s of arrests.
That was my thought too. Does this law apply to all douchebag
hand-signals, or just those exhibited by those with a certain uh,
look?
hmm|8.4.09 @ 11:00AM|#
Think of all the stupid MySpace and FaceBook girls that are going to be rounded up. With extra special link sauce.
|8.4.09 @ 11:08AM|#
I might change my mind on this law if it can be changed to apply to anyone who wears popped collars.
highnumber|8.4.09 @ 12:00PM|#
Anecdote:
The Wife's uncle is a Chicago cop. The Wife's aunt had a couple of
kids, about 18-20 years old, kind of goofy, like one may have had a
green mohawk at the time. A few years ago a bunch of family was
gathered for something. A picture was being taken. The Wife's
cousins made some hand gestures. The uncle freaked out, started
yelling about them flash gang signs. He went apoplectic. The
cousins were snickering. A huge family rift ensued. To this day
those two sides of the family are a don't-invitem-item. About a
year ago I figured out that the cousins had been flashing "the
shocker."
T|8.4.09 @ 12:19PM|#
hmm. Would this be an arrestable offense? Because if that's the case, I need to stay out of Florida during football season.
|8.4.09 @ 12:27PM|#
I wonder what they'll do if some of the gangbangers are clever enough to start using ASL.
|8.4.09 @ 12:42PM|#
The law itself is unique across the nation
Which ought to be a huge warning sign that it is unconstitutional,
and will not survive legal challenge.
Spartacus|8.4.09 @ 1:03PM|#
You can't blame Snyder too much. Spending time in Tallahassee will cause brain rot. It's a known fact.
highnumber|8.4.09 @ 2:54PM|#
Let's just end this silly fight. Spending time in Tallahassee,
Gainesville, Orlando, Fort Lauderdale, Miami, Jacksonville,
Pensacola, Taintville...the list goes on, all will cause brain
rot.
Right, ProGlib?
|8.4.09 @ 3:10PM|#
So now we have to incarcerate every wannabe "gangsta" from the suburbs unless this is racial targeted legislation.
Paul|8.4.09 @ 4:08PM|#
"None of our freedoms are absolute, and the freedom of
expression is not absolute"
Finally, something Democrats and Republicans can agree on.
Paul|8.4.09 @ 4:13PM|#
Nice link JD. I liked this in the sidebar:
Pro-government lawmaker says that government's actions against radio stations are constitutional
But I'm assured it's all democratic... or something.
highnumber|8.4.09 @ 4:40PM|#
Well, ProGLib, first off, please note the cities I did not
mention.
But the truth is that you became smarter while in Chicago. By the
time you moved back to Florida, in fact, you had acquired a
self-awareness that you retained despite the move back to
Florida...anywho, yours is a tragic story. I am reminded of a short
story by Daniel Keyes, though Charly seemed to leave his
self-awareness behind.
|8.4.09 @ 4:52PM|#
Yes, thank you for leaving out Tampa, but I lived in Tallahassee
as a youth and went to school in Gainesville, so I got sensitive.
And insulting Taintsville. . .well, you're a braver soul than
I.
Short story or novel version? Even my wife, who isn't a big reader,
loved the novel.
Rhywun|8.5.09 @ 2:57AM|#
About a year ago I figured out that the cousins had been flashing "the shocker."
Yeah, that's what it usually is. Mamas, don't let your babies grow
up to be douchebags. (No offense, but I loathe that shit.)
dhex|8.5.09 @ 9:56AM|#
ha, if you think flashing it is bad, the guido who lives on my block has a shocker decal on the back of his car. no shit. i stared at it for a good two minutes, thinking i'd finally scored one of those freebie trips that dare had always told me about.
Rhywun|8.5.09 @ 12:30PM|#
I guess that's the "WOW" of the new millennium. On the bright side, I heartily approve of such efforts at self-identification.
coyote1284|8.5.09 @ 4:37PM|#
The only freedoms that are absolute are the ones that the populous absolutely and actively keeps for themselves. ANY government will inevitably erode freedom, even those that initially set out to define and uphold those freedoms.
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