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Is Barbara Boxer the Orville Faubus of the Climate Committee?
If you were watching the Sotomayor snoozefest today (though, in fairness, it did feature some testimony from clever folks like Ilya Somin and David Kopel), you probably missed Harry C. Alford, president of the National Black Chamber of Commerce, testifying before the Committee on Environment and Public Works about his group's study of the Markey/Waxman Climate Change Bill. When Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA) contradicted Alford's concerns about the legislation, she did so by citing a statement from the NAACP and the CEO of 100 Black Men of Atlanta. Translation: There are black people that agree with me too! The witness promptly accuses Boxer of being "racial" by segregating evidence by color, and asks Boxer why she is "trying to put up some other black group to pit against me." A fair point, though one wonders why, if Alford believes that there is no racial component to such issues, his group is called the National Black Chamber of Commerce.
"We are referring to the experts regardless of their color. And for someone to tell me, an African-American, college-educated veteran of the United States Army that I must contend with some other black group and put aside everything else in here—this has nothing to do with the NAACP and really has nothing to do with the National Black Chamber of Commerce. We're talking energy and that road the chair went down, I think, is god-awful."
The video, though, is far more entertaining:
Jeff P|7.16.09 @ 6:27PM|#
Barb's deadpan utterance of "As someone who is married to...a veteran" is comedy genius.
Jordan|7.16.09 @ 6:35PM|#
Awesome. I can just see the confusion:
"But I'm one of the good guys! What do you think I am, a
Republican?"
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MNG|7.16.09 @ 6:47PM|#
Oh c'mon, there was no racial angle to including this guy in the line-up to begin with? She called his tokenism, good for her...
|7.16.09 @ 6:49PM|#
haha, calling him for his tokenism. I love how racism is perfectly acceptable when blacks try to break out of the liberal cage. Back to your ghetto hole you mangy cur!!!
Cal Lipigian|7.16.09 @ 6:52PM|#
"You don't know when I came"
Boy, if I had a nickel for every time I heard a middle aged woman
say that....
kilroy|7.16.09 @ 6:57PM|#
Boy, if I had a nickel for every time I heard a middle aged
white woman say that....
FTFY
|7.16.09 @ 6:57PM|#
Alford tore that pig-ignorant, tax-sucking, condescending idiot
a new asshole. Bravo!
-jcr
kilroy|7.16.09 @ 7:04PM|#
Oh, and I didn't know black people weren't allowed in the regular Chamber of Commerce.
|7.16.09 @ 7:05PM|#
MNG-
You tried to cover for Justice Ginsburg this morning after Mad Max
highlighted a telling statement she made in the New York Times
Magazine piece.
Now, you want us to take leave of our senses and pretend that Boxer
wasn't playing identity politics? Sure, Mr. Alford played the same
card-but Boxer initiated the racialism/tokenism/identity/diversity
bullshit that has long been a democrat party staple.
|7.16.09 @ 7:07PM|#
JCR-
Even though Mr. Alford played the race/identity card himself, I
relished his upbraiding of that harlot.
|7.16.09 @ 7:08PM|#
Alford is an idiot.
On the one hand he questions Boxer for "speaking for the black
community" and on the other he wonders why she putting into the
record (among other things) a statement from the NAACP?
When you are speaking for the BLACK chamber of Congress, you are
essentially bringing race into conversation. WHy is it out of
bounds then to bring up the opinions of other black
societies?
Why does he keep repeating that he's a veteran? Is that supposed to
give him extra credibility?
|7.16.09 @ 7:10PM|#
Boxer initiated the racialism/tokenism/identity/diversity
bullshit that has long been a democrat party staple.
One would think when you show up representing the Black Chamber of
Commerce you already engaged in identity politics, no?
Oh, and I didn't know black people weren't allowed in the
regular Chamber of Commerce.
I didn't know that either.
The Angry Optimist|7.16.09 @ 7:10PM|#
Look, are you guys saying that Alford played the race card
merely by being a member of a black organization? Because...that
doesn't make sense.
Within the limited context of the hearings, here comes a black
dude. Boxer goes "Oh RLY, black guy? Look at what your precious
NAACP and Jet magazine have to say about all this?"
And the guy rightfully gets pissed. It would be like if someone
from the Log Cabin Republicans* came in to testify and Boxer goes
"Oh yeah? well look at what HRC said about this!"
How is that relevant?
* - non-existent animals that they are now, I am sure.
The Angry Optimist|7.16.09 @ 7:11PM|#
When you are speaking for the BLACK chamber of Congress, you are essentially bringing race into conversation.
No, you don't. This is patently false, and your reflexive defenses
of the dumbest and evilest Dems is getting.....telling.
KingShamus|7.16.09 @ 7:15PM|#
Alford might not be completely right, but stupid Barbarian Boxer
is almost always 100% wrong.
I find it interesting that she didn't demand that Alford call her
'Senator' like she did to that military dude a few weeks back. I
guess she can't make a private citizen bow and scrape like she can
a member of the armed forces.
|7.16.09 @ 7:16PM|#
You know what's telling? That no one at Hit & Run has posted a damned thing about robot zombies.
MNG|7.16.09 @ 7:17PM|#
TAO
You don't think the guy was put forward to put a "black face" on
this issue?
That's naive.
The C of C regularly takes a shit on the National Black Chamber of
Commerce. But they found them to be useful idiots here. Boxer
called them on the tokenism.
MNG|7.16.09 @ 7:18PM|#
I'm curious, very curious here TAO. Shouldn't you be denouncing this guy for his backward racial identity politics? I mean, can't this guy get past his race! I mean, who sees whether someone is black or white anymore but plain old racists! Why, this guy is no different than George Wallace, right?
Tim Cavanaugh|7.16.09 @ 7:20PM|#
A fair point, though one wonders why, if Alford believes
that there is no racial component to such issues, his group is
called the National Black Chamber of Commerce.
Though I never thought I'd see a stick that wasn't worth hitting
Barbara Boxer with, this is the relevant point. There's an implicit
message that he's there repesenting the Black Community.
It is insulting for her to assume one representative of
the BC is as good as any other, but that point needs to be made
deftly. I think he kind of flubbed it by using a badgering
manner.
MNG|7.16.09 @ 7:21PM|#
Hey TAO or PL
If I leave a life estate to TAO, remainder to PL, and TAO then
sells his interest in the life estate to Underzog, and Underzog
dies, and TAO and PL are alive, who has the possessory interest in
the estate?
I'm pretty sure it's Underzog's heirs, right?
Damn me for picking up this Property casebook at the Friends of the
Library sale! They don't give the answers in the comment and
questions sections...WTF?
|7.16.09 @ 7:22PM|#
Chicago Tom-
I don't like that Alford played the identity card. But why defend a
state actor who has traded in such currency her entire political
career? A state actor who has no problem feeding at the public
trough-everyday. A state actor who rigs the game and its rules to
benefit herself and her sponsors/cronies/contriburos. A state actor
who daily plots to reduce your freedom.
The Angry Optimist|7.16.09 @ 7:24PM|#
Shouldn't you be denouncing this guy for his backward racial identity politics?
Yes. That's 100% correct - I despise any institution that sets
itself apart solely on something so irrelevant. Things like
Jet, BET etc. all rub me the wrong way, because I don't
think there's anything special in race, so I don't think there are
experiences that permit any media outlet or advocacy group to base
itself on a trivial and socially-constructed-and-therefore-false
thing such as race.
You don't think the guy was put forward to put a "black face" on this issue?
I don't know why he was there, but Boxer certainly did
this as an "A ha! Look at what these black groups
said about it!", and that is irrelevant and yes, condescending. The
fact that you see a black guy taking a conservative position, and
instantly think "TOKEN!" is telling about you AND the esteemed
Senator from Cali.
|7.16.09 @ 7:26PM|#
The duration of the life estate is tagged to TAO, but the interest doesn't revert back or go to the remainderman until his death. So I think you're right.
The Angry Optimist|7.16.09 @ 7:27PM|#
MNG - alright, I'll play nicer, since I see you're in a humorous
mood.
Anyway, the answer should be "PL" - the interest in the estate that
I sold was as a "life estate", and therefore UZ's interest
extinguishes when he dies. I get nothing.
|7.16.09 @ 7:27PM|#
Cool. I've heard very good things about Moon. I hope I get a chance to see it at the theater.
|7.16.09 @ 7:29PM|#
Maybe I'm wrong. It's been a long time since Property. But I thought the life measure was TAO's.
MNG|7.16.09 @ 7:29PM|#
Er, I'm just not naive. The fact that you see the guy and don't
think "a-ha, this guy was chosen to give the "black guy's" slant on
this" is more telling. You do have CNN and C-Span, don't you?
Right-leaning folks are always, always desperate to find a black
face that parrots their line. We've discussed this before...Every
year we have these things called "elections", and every year
without fail about 90% of blacks, adults with brains and not under
any Gorilla Grodd mind control, go out and cast their vote
signifying their opinion against right-leaning opinions...So when a
black guy shows up on the right leaning side, it's natural to say
"uh, is something up with that?"
The Angry Optimist|7.16.09 @ 7:30PM|#
oh jeez, here we go. I guess I assumed that when I conveyed the life estate, I tagged it to the "new life" of UZ. If it remained unchanged, then yeah, the remainder goes to UZ's heirs, but only until I die.
|7.16.09 @ 7:30PM|#
What if the contract eveidencing the sale of the life estate interest provides that in the event Underzog predeceases TAO the life estate interest reverts to TAO?
MNG|7.16.09 @ 7:31PM|#
TAO
In all due respect, because you are a wizard at the law, I think PL
is right. The life estate was yours. You transfer it, but you can
only transfer the estate during your life span. If the person you
transfer it to, Zoggy, dies, then I think his heirs get it until
you die.
But please point me out if I'm wrong. This question is bedeviling
me!
The Angry Optimist|7.16.09 @ 7:32PM|#
er, is it possible, MNG, that even though blacks overwhelmingly
vote Democrat, that it's possible....just possible, mind, that they
don't wholesale agree with every aspect of the Democrat
agenda?
Radical thinking, I know, but try.
|7.16.09 @ 7:32PM|#
The idiot Ba(r)ba(ra) Boxer with 1 digit IQ is creamed by a smart businessman. I suppose all the State-Run Media will be on 24/7 Alert to defend Baba Boxer by laying down their bodies defending her, showing how fanatically communist leftist zealots they are. It is hilarious Boxer reading off NAACP documents to pander to race. She read like 5 year old, just like Obama threw GIRLY pitch. Bunch of sissies and corrupt Mafiosos tripping all over each other and themselves. Where is the SLUTTY Letterman? Has he made any jokes yet? Or he CAN'T RECALL, like Hillary? The Democrats, Chunkie Schumer and others, were all having group orgasm over Sotomayor. Uh, ooohh, aahhh, uh..... uh..... The Democrats are bunch of IDIOTS who represent their IDIOT constituents. The 80% Kool-Aid Kooks are still drunk and can't wake up. They would rather not wake up, I suppose since their "beloved leaders" are tripping all over themselves and making total jack ass of themselves.
MNG|7.16.09 @ 7:32PM|#
I just read TAO's latest post AFTER I posted mine. Sorry
all!
Stupid property law! If we were communist imagine how easy this
would all be ;).
MNG|7.16.09 @ 7:35PM|#
Hey, look John, I'm no "in general" defender of Boxer. In fact,
many Dem senators strike me as sharp as balloons. Let's see, I
admire Webb from VA. Sometimes I like Dorgan.
But look: when you are invited to be one of the limited number of
witnesses at these hearings, and you are billed as the "Black"
business leader, then it's pretty accepted that the side arranging
the line-up wanted you to represent the "black" view, and so it's
totally ok for the other side to point out that "guess what, you
don't."
MNG|7.16.09 @ 7:36PM|#
LM
That's not in the casebook I have, but I imagine that would be
upheld as contracted for.
The Angry Optimist|7.16.09 @ 7:36PM|#
that's not "our John", ladies and gentlemen.
Anyway, I think my first answer has to be flat wrong, because if a
LE owner could wholesale transfer the interest, then he would
perpetually transfer it to someone younger and destroy the purpose
of the LE in the first place.
I think libertymike is correct in that the conveyance of interest
could specify who the remaindermen are, although then you would
have this weirdness:
M to TAO for life, then to PL upon TAO's death.
TAO to UZ for life, reverter to TAO upon UZ's death?
Can a life estate owner vest another life estate in
someone? I suppose if MNG ultimately has the reverter when TAO
dies, you could...seems goofy.
The Angry Optimist|7.16.09 @ 7:38PM|#
But look: when you are invited to be one of the limited number of witnesses at these hearings, and you are billed as the "Black" business leader
See, I'm not seeing that "billing". If Alford was introduced in
such a way as "Aaaaand here's the Black Perspective!", then yeah,
what Boxer did is totally legit. you can call it naivete or good
faith, but I assumed that he was an antagonistic witness who just
happened to be from an organization that bills itself as
"black".
Paul|7.16.09 @ 7:39PM|#
Oh merciful God, please, God please let there be just one more government shut-down in my lifetime.
MNG|7.16.09 @ 7:39PM|#
"I think my first answer has to be flat wrong, because if a LE
owner could wholesale transfer the interest, then he would
perpetually transfer it to someone younger and destroy the purpose
of the LE in the first place."
I think you're right here, and very insightful I might add. Like I
said, you know your law dude...I just hope you go into corporate
and not politics!
ed|7.16.09 @ 7:40PM|#
Whoa. Thanks for posting this. Harry C. Alford is My New Hero of the Day! One might question his motives, but anyone who bitch-slaps The Boxer is OK in my book. Kudos!
The Angry Optimist|7.16.09 @ 7:41PM|#
shit yeah I am going corporate. I thought about politics when I was younger, but I hate D.C. culture and wouldn't make it week before my head exploded.
MNG|7.16.09 @ 7:41PM|#
TAO
I see your point @ 7:38, but iirc these slots are heavily arranged,
limited, and therefore my conclusion, which I admit is
"probablistic", that this guy was carefully chosen for a specific
reason...And I don't think it was his persuasive oratory...
MNG|7.16.09 @ 7:42PM|#
Well, disagreeing with you as I do, but acknowledging your knowledge of law, I am glad you are not going into politics ;)
MNG|7.16.09 @ 7:44PM|#
Hey TAO, speaking of law, I've been reading and re-reading the
case INTERNATIONAL NEWS SERVICE V. ASSOCIATED PRESS, and must say I
was very curious as to how you thought about this case (about how
any libertarians thought about it, so please anyone with an opinion
join in).
Pitney, Holmes or Brandies?
The Angry Optimist|7.16.09 @ 7:46PM|#
even assuming the worst about the reason the gentleman was there (and it's likely, admittedly), I think that it's very problematic for Boxer to do what she did regardless. Assume that the Republicans were race-baiting; that doesn't make it proper to operate on that level.
The Angry Optimist|7.16.09 @ 7:49PM|#
Pitney if Pitney were crafting the legislation; Brandeis for being legally correct.
MNG|7.16.09 @ 7:50PM|#
Boxer's idea is: oh, so they are playing the black card, well, I
can show that blacks disagree.
It is kind of sad in a way, they are not playing this card to
convice blacks, but whites, both sides want to show whites "hey,
you don't care about blacks?" If the other side is going to pull
that, I think it proper to respond like that, though of course I'd
rather live in a world without such nonsense. On a truly
disinterested, logical level, who cares? But this ain't
disinterested logic, these folks are playing politics in the
USA...
The Libertarian Guy|7.16.09 @ 7:51PM|#
"I think he kind of flubbed it by using a badgering
manner."
She gets what she deserves.
MNG|7.16.09 @ 7:53PM|#
I thought Brandies too. It seemed sucky what they were doing,
copying the AP's work and selling it, but I thought Brandies was
right: it just did not fall under any extant judicial tool of the
time.
I do find it interesting that you think Pitney's approach would be
good for legislation. Wouldn't that hinder "liberty;", the liberty
of folks to copy the bulletin boards that were in view? I'm not
trying to be a smartass or trap you here. I want to say Pitney and
Holmes were right, froma utilitarian view for sure (I mean, surely
the decision is better for those of us who like promptly reported
accurate news)...
|7.16.09 @ 8:05PM|#
Good thing Mr. Alford isn't a gay, female, Asian, double amputee
- Dim bulb Barbie would have had to get the endorsement of the
NAAGFADA.
Cudos Mr. Alford - the woman is a condescending dope.
The Angry Optimist|7.16.09 @ 8:11PM|#
well, I'm not anti-IP. I see his holding as analogous to the way
that drug patent laws operate (in a way): you cannot intervene in
the business at the precise point that the effort is going to pay
off, and to have such a scheme would make news profitless.
Analogously, you cannot instantly reproduce a generic drug after
Merck has spent 500 million dollars developing it.
ed|7.16.09 @ 8:13PM|#
the woman is a condescending dope
That's "Senator" Condescending Dope, if you please.
Kevin|7.16.09 @ 8:59PM|#
I'm a Californian, and I am so tired of Boxer and Feinstein. I generally don't wish ill on anyone, but if Barbara Boxer died tomorrow I'd have a wake for her. A grand party themed "Ding Dong The Witch is Dead!" She just makes my blood boil. Of course, the euphoria would be short lived, as the next day i would come to the realization that the idiot California electorate would just replace her with another brain dead Statist dipshit.
|7.16.09 @ 9:11PM|#
MNG,
The whole problem with real property is that they don't want your
dead hand acting generations down the road. So if your will or even
your inter vivos transaction seems to set up a disfavored
restriction on alienability, you're screwed, and some fertile
octogenarian gets your property. Okay, I made up that last
part.
hmm|7.16.09 @ 9:35PM|#
I can't stand the race card. But that man just called her
bullshit with a giant bitch slap. That was fucking great. You black
folk should thank us and support us. Amazing.
The stupid elitist bitch. She's a purse clutcher when a black man
enters the elevator.
Stupid fucking
ho.
Michael|7.16.09 @ 9:49PM|#
"Then we're gonna put the N-A-A-C-P
resolution that passed, saying..."
Cross my heart and hope to die, I've never once heard anybody refer
to it that way. It's as though everything this woman has ever
learned about the world around her came from spreadsheets and
PowerPoint presentations.
Chef|7.16.09 @ 9:50PM|#
Ooh, Barbara, every time we kiss, hot lava
Every time that we make love, thats's lava, hot lava
Lava so hot it makes me sweat,
Lava so warm and red and wet,
Sphincter is rumbling, must find a safer place
Soon the wrath of Pele, will spew upon your face
Great nectar of the gods, spews chunks coming from your
crater
makes the lava we know
Ooh, Barbara, every time we kiss, hot lava
Every time that we make love, there's lava, hot lava
Make me call you Senator,
Make you call me Tax Payer
Lava so hot it makes me sweat,
Lava so warm and red and wet.
MJ|7.16.09 @ 10:03PM|#
The fun thing about the left being in power is when they start to eat their own kind.
|7.16.09 @ 10:04PM|#
Even though Mr. Alford played the race/identity card
himself,
He did nothing of the kind. Boxer tried "hey, these black people
agree with me, so STFU", and he countered with "so what if they're
black? Am I supposed to ignore this study in my hand because some
of your best friends are black, you patronizing old white
lady?"
He didn't play the race card, he expressed the very same outrage at
her racism that any decent person would.
-jcr
jtuf|7.16.09 @ 10:23PM|#
In the video, Senator Boxer also pointed out oil company funding for the study that opposes the global warming bill in an attempt to invalidate the study. By that logic, we should throw out all the government funded studies used to support a global warming bill that would give the government much more power.
Fist of Etiquette|7.16.09 @ 10:23PM|#
God, I love when race baiting is tossed back at Congressional
Democrats, regardless of the hypocrisy of the dude doing the
lobbing.
Also, nice stress on the word "ma'am" peppered throughout.
|7.16.09 @ 11:09PM|#
There's an implicit message that he's there repesenting the
Black Community.
Et tu, Tim? No, there is an explicit message that they represent
Commerce. Science H Logic, if those uppity blacks dare to have an
organization explicitly for black people then, goddammit, we are
going to cram them into the "black people" box? Why didn't she ask
him if he missed MJ, since they all know each other?!
If I start the "Okies who are Assholes" organization there is
nothing that implies I represent either the Okie or asshole
"community". I simply represent like minded Okies and
assholes.
I guess I missed the white guy meeting where it was agreed that if
you represent an organization of black people you are speaking for
"black people" or "for the Black Community" cause, you know, they
are all alike? The National Black Chamber of Commerce represents
95,000 businesses but if they are brought before Congress it simply
must be because of their skin color? If the Chamber of Commerce
speaks before Congress then Boxer can mention the opinions of
NASCAR or George Michael because they "implicitly represent the
white community"?
It must be tough being a Republican. If you do not completely
pander to blacks, you are racists. If you try and find black people
and organizations who agree with your positions, again, it is
because you are racist. If you do find black people who agree with
your position, they HAVE to be tokens, because the racists are
counting. Yes, of course Boxer is a racist.
Any chance that the people of this organization of 95,000
business owners might actually have something relevant to
say, besides the "black perspective"? Mr. Alford isn't a MAN, only
a black man?
B|7.17.09 @ 12:11AM|#
I am so glad someone called this bitch on that. Boxer is, without a doubt, the stupidest Senator in Congress. Yes, that is including Maria Cantwell.
B|7.17.09 @ 12:17AM|#
"The C of C regularly takes a shit on the National Black Chamber
of Commerce. But they found them to be useful idiots here. Boxer
called them on the tokenism."
Yeah, because Boxer was the brilliant and clever one here. Give me
a fucking break. And acting like the NAACP supporting a proposal
from an ultra-liberal Democratic president is some sort of
gaem-changing trump card is absolutely fucking hilarious
B|7.17.09 @ 12:20AM|#
The NAACP endorsing a cap and trade bill is about as important and relevant as the American Home Builders Association weighing in on a bill about medical regulations.
Anonymous|7.17.09 @ 3:00AM|#
No, there is an explicit message that they represent
Commerce.
Black commerce, presumably; or perhaps the "black angle" on
commerce in general, which makes even less sense, unless they're
going to argue a point they would flatly call racist.
The National Black Chamber of Commerce represents 95,000
businesses but if they are brought before Congress it simply must
be because of their skin color?
The National Chamber of Commerce represents hundreds of thoudands
of individuals, but if they are brought before Congress it simply
must be because of commerce?
Any chance that the people of this organization of 95,000
business owners might actually have something relevant to say,
besides the "black perspective"? Mr. Alford isn't a MAN, only a
black man?
Any chance that the people of this organization of 95,000 chemical
engineers might actually have something relevant to say, besides
the "chemist's perspective"? Mr. Alford isn't an engineer, only a
CHEMICAL engineer?
Charles Montgomery|7.17.09 @ 4:52AM|#
Came here to see someone make a joke about the pot
calling the kettle black.
left disappointed .... :-(
|7.17.09 @ 5:37AM|#
nice post..
___________________
Britney
The
best place for the best ENTERTAINMENT
|7.17.09 @ 5:58AM|#
I love when race baiting is tossed back at Congressional
Democrats,
It was even more fun when Hillary Clinton hoist herself on that
petard during the campaign.
-jcr
|7.17.09 @ 7:58AM|#
Why is Reason edited on the 8th grade level?
Why can't you Wookie Suiters be bothered to open a book, or even
open Wikipedia? Put down the World of Warcraft, bong and Cheetoes,
Liberatardians.
His name was ORVAL FAUBUS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orval_Faubus
Kilroy|7.17.09 @ 8:01AM|#
I'm a white guy with a business. Can I join the Black CofC? If not, and he was representing the Black CofC (not a verteran, or a "man", or a business leader) then he was representing "Black".
|7.17.09 @ 8:17AM|#
Black commerce, presumably; or perhaps the "black angle" on
commerce in general, which makes even less sense, unless they're
going to argue a point they would flatly call racist.
The National Black Chamber of Commerce represents 95,000 businesses
but if they are brought before Congress it simply must be because
of their skin color?
The National Chamber of Commerce represents hundreds of thoudands
of individuals, but if they are brought before Congress it simply
must be because of commerce?
Any chance that the people of this organization of 95,000 business
owners might actually have something relevant to say, besides the
"black perspective"? Mr. Alford isn't a MAN, only a black
man?
Any chance that the people of this organization of 95,000 chemical
engineers might actually have something relevant to say, besides
the "chemist's perspective"? Mr. Alford isn't an engineer, only a
CHEMICAL engineer?
I wouldn't want to sign my name to that post, either.
Your absurd implication is that if an organization is for "black
businesses" what they say about business, the subject of the
hearing, doesn't matter, cause they are black. The Chamber of
Commerce can speak about Commerce, but if it is only black
businesses, you tell them what the NAACP says?
Was the hearing about race? Nope, but when those darkies talk, they
all speak for their "community"?
To bad you are too lazy, or simply to racist to read their website.
It took all of about 2 minutes. They NEVER claim to represent the
"black community" only business owners who are black.
From your post I must assume that you believe that the NAACP speaks
for all black people? Because they are a monolithic group who are
all the same, because of the melanin in their skin?
|7.17.09 @ 8:18AM|#
Enh. There's a Jewish Chamber of Commerce, there's a Korean
Chamber of Commerce, there's all sorts of ethnically divided
chambers of commerce (no Honky Chamber of Commerce, but that's an
argument for another day). The fact that a black C of C exists is
not anything to get worked up over, and the fact that they sent a
man to make a commerce-related argument at Washington is not prima
facie evidence of tokenism. It's simply one of many business
communities making their voices heard.
Boxer's quoting of NAACP would be relevant if the guy had said
anything remotely racial at the start, but he didn't. She brought
race into the discussion, and steadfastly refused to engage the man
on the points he was making. Condescending? You damn skippy, and
emblematic of a certain party's belief that blacks are their
private ideological foot soldiers.
Good for him for telling her to shove it.
|7.17.09 @ 8:24AM|#
She saw his Negros and raised him 100 more!
What? You expected Boxer to consider the content of his arguement
and not judge him on the color of his skin?
Pluh-leaze! She's not a damn Republican!
Gilbert Martin|7.17.09 @ 8:26AM|#
"When Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA) contradicted Alford's concerns
about the legislation, she did so by citing a statement from the
NAACP and the CEO of 100 Black Men of Atlanta. Translation: There
are black people that agree with me too!"
Execpt that the whole point of the hearings is about the ECONOMIC
effects of the cap and trade bill on busnisess. Somebody from a
Chamber of Commerce presumably actually knows something about
business. Whereas the NAAACP and the CEO of 100 Black Men of
Atlanta don't know diddly squat about it.
|7.17.09 @ 8:27AM|#
I'm a white guy with a business. Can I join the Black CofC?
If not, and he was representing the Black CofC (not a verteran, or
a "man", or a business leader) then he was representing
"Black".
You can't join the "Daughters of the American Revolution" either.
Do they also speak for the "daughter community"? The "American"
community? Do they get to decide whom they represent, or, from
their name, do YOU decide for them?
It doesn't matter what they say, once they mention that they are
"black" they have a different "perspective", not based upon the
organizations stated purpose, but, you know, your certainty that
they are so different they MUST HAVE a different "perspective"
based, not upon their experiences, but their skin color?
kilroy|7.17.09 @ 8:40AM|#
Don't get me wrong, Boxer was being racial. But I believe it was
reciprocal racism, which is equally wrong and stupid. The guy was
representing business and his issues should have been addressed but
by the organization he was representing he was specifically
representing black businesses. There was no reason to represent him
as anything other than a Prominent Business Leader. If you
introduce him as a Prominent Black Business Leader then the racial
theme is in play.
If he'd been a black guy representing the Jewish CofC and she'd
rolled out the NAACP then I'd say she alone played the race card.
If, one the other hand, she'd cited a report from an opposing
Jewish organisation then we'd be back to reciprocity.
Idiots on the right, idiots on the left.
|7.17.09 @ 8:41AM|#
I watched the tapes & have to disagree with your comment on
the National BLACK C of C. I'll bet there are similar organizations
for other groups & see no problem at all with it.
The point Mr. Alford was trying to make is that his group
represents actual, productive, employee hiring businesses and the
businesses connected with "climate change" had vested interests in
the accuracy of data presented and could cite scholarly reports
justifying whatever posiion the businesses held.
The groups "Madam" Boxer cited had political vice business
orientations and the reports she waved around were not based on
science. I agree with Mr. Alford's dismay.
I have to admit REALLY enjoying his put down of Boxer's California
pedigree when she showed an obsessive interest in Mr. Alford's
residence.
Kasper Hauser|7.17.09 @ 8:46AM|#
So. Kilroy, Boxer "was being racial", but "didn't pull the race
card?". How does that work?
And the saying is "Fools to the left of me, Jokers to the right",
but nevermind....the idiot stuck in the middle is you.
kilroy|7.17.09 @ 8:49AM|#
Kasper Hauser,
Sure she pulled the race card... second.
And thanks for the ad hom, I can now dismiss you entirely.
ed|7.17.09 @ 8:51AM|#
jane | July 17, 2009, 8:34am | #
I bet Barb's husband doesn't call her Ma'am
He calls her "Sweet Cakes." Then out comes the ball gag and
whip.
|7.17.09 @ 8:52AM|#
The folks defending Boxer here on the grounds that Alford was
brought in as a "token" to speak for the Black community are
fundamentally (and I think unwittingly) arguing that race-based
organizations like the Black C of C or the Black Student Co-op on
many college campuses are flawed, because they separate on race
artificially where no division is needed, or is no longer needed.
Ironically, most conservatives would generally agree with this
argument; but many gave up long ago. But as others have said, it is
fun to see the left hoisted on its own petard from time to
time.
So, if the Black C of C has the right to exist... then, is its
purpose to promote all black people (race)? I would answer no. Or
just the black business owners that choose to join (commerce)? I
would answer yes; on the grounds that the "Black" experience in
commerce in this country is unique and knowing their opinion is
valid... as would be the opinion of the NAACP, an explicitly
race-based organization; but for completely different reasons. And
I think Alford even said something like, then why aren't they here
testifying? Good question.
|7.17.09 @ 8:57AM|#
Why is there a Black Chamber of Commerce? Is there an Asian,
Muslim, European Chamber of Commerce too?
The racist accusations of blacks towards non-blacks is like the pot
calling the kettle black (no pun intended). Can we just move on and
drop the segregated groups already?
|7.17.09 @ 9:01AM|#
Yes, there are Korean, Chinese, Jewish, Italian, Irish Chambers of Commerce. Just do a google search and you'll find tons of them.
|7.17.09 @ 9:05AM|#
Everyone missed the two key points.
Boxer and Progressives (mostly Democrats) are brainwashing people
to believe in Climate Change (previously Anthropomorphic Global
Warming).
They want to create another crisis to futher destroy our economy
and America.
Mr. Alford and his organization have been studying energy policy
since 1996. He wanted to present his findings to the
committee.
Obviously, to Boxer, RACE TRUMPS INTELLIGENT discourse. ONLY SHE
CAN BE RIGHT.
She IS truly RACIST.
Look up Milankovitch Cycles on Wikipedia. Based on SCIENCE, they
explain many things, but not all. They are coming back in
vogue.
Recently scientists found an extreme warming period 50 million
years ago, with no credible explanation yet.
RACE and STUPIDITY. That's what Boxer and Progressives are all
about.
Visit Chuckdevore.com if you want to get rid of RACIST Boxer.
kilroy|7.17.09 @ 9:11AM|#
As a matter of fact Alford is on the board of directors of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce so there was NO reason for him not to represent the broader category of business, unless there was a different point being implied.
|7.17.09 @ 9:16AM|#
MNG, A life estate ends when the life of the holder ends. TAO sold his interest to Underzog, Underzog died. The estate now belongs to PL. The answer is obvious, just like Boxer's bigoted assumption that all black men think alike. You must be so proud of her.
|7.17.09 @ 9:56AM|#
Alford represents the BCC and the BCC did a study that
purportedly shows that Cap and Trade would hurt minority-owned
businesses. His evidence, instead of being considered by Ms. Boxer
was dismissed because she found other Blacks on her side (who had
no "studies", only a resolution).
In other words, because he was black, she dismissed the content of
his evidence and judged him solely on the basis of his skin.
It was not "racial" or "playing the race card", it was racist...or
as Ms. Boxer (notice I didn't say "Senator") would no doubt put it
if she were addressing a Negro..."R-A-C-I-S-T"
|7.17.09 @ 10:12AM|#
What Boxer's reflexive use of another black group to respond to
the representative of this black group tells us is that
she puts black people, all black people, in a box. Her
instinctive reaction wasn't to the content of his presentation, but
to the color of his skin.
That's what he was responding to, and rightly so.
|7.17.09 @ 10:26AM|#
"As a matter of fact Alford is on the board of directors of
the U.S. Chamber of Commerce so there was NO reason for him not to
represent the broader category of business, unless there was a
different point being implied."
But...the U.S. Chamber of Commerce didn't do the study.
|7.17.09 @ 10:26AM|#
Boxer is amazingly obtuse. Excuse me - I mean stupid.
The guy had been invited to present the results of a study his
group had conducted. Before even hearing what he had to say, she
whips out an NAACP "resolution" expressing support for the
legislation. As Mr. Alford so rightly asked, "so what?" What does
their "resolution" mean?
I and my little group of special-interest buddies can pass a
resolution in support of the notion that the earth revolves about
the moon, but that doesn't make it so. Any group can pass any
resolution they want.
Clearly, her only reason for whipping out the NAACP resolution was
to point out that there are BLACK people who agree with her side.
Which totally side-steps and disregards any substantive discourse
on the topic - which Mr. Alford was there to present.
Boxer is the dimmest bulb in the Senate.
|7.17.09 @ 11:39AM|#
Best of all, when Alford first said the word "condescending," he
pronounced it "condenscending," just like the stoner/slacker Brad
Pitt pronounced it from the couch in Tarantino's "True
Romance."
I choose to believe that Alford did this on purpose, to subtly
communicate that he can hang, not only with black businessmen but
also with white hipsters.
|7.17.09 @ 11:54AM|#
Alford answers the last question you posed in this interview yesterday posted here. He says his focus is on economic issues, while the other groups are more focused on social ones. But watch the whole thing.
|7.17.09 @ 12:03PM|#
The ma'am mistook Mr. Alford as a plantation resident. He sure set her straight! Rock on, Mr. Alford!!!!!!!!!!
Howard Veit|7.17.09 @ 2:04PM|#
During my lifetime I have interviewed at least thirty elected reps of all parties and in most cases found them all very bright, well educated, and very tricky. The only exception to the "bright" part has been Barbara Boxer who I found to be almost stupid. The only reason she got elected to anything is identity politics and the liberal touchstones of abortion, abortion, and corporate greed. I remember when she was caught overdrawing her DC checking account by thousands and thousands and blamed it all on "I can't figure it out." In my experience interviewing her she was almost never able to answer a direct question on any issue and as soon as she could she tossed me out. She was ambushed here by a racist, but she deserves it.
|7.17.09 @ 2:44PM|#
That's 100% correct - I despise any institution that sets
itself apart solely on something so irrelevant. Things like Jet,
BET etc. all rub me the wrong way, because I don't think there's
anything special in race, so I don't think there are experiences
that permit any media outlet or advocacy group to base itself on a
trivial and socially-constructed-and-therefore-false thing such as
race.
Wow, I am so fucking sick of white people lecturing me on how
minority folks shouldn't form groups to support each other, because
race doesn't matter.
As much as most libertarians like to pretend otherwise, there is
still A LOT of racism (and sexism) in the business community. It's
more soft and subtle than in the old days, but it's still
there.
I'll add that Barb Boxer and her defenders can eat a bag of broken
glass as far as I care.
|7.17.09 @ 2:48PM|#
Alford kept calling her "Ma'am." Why didn't she correct him on
that?
Maybe that protocol is just for men in uniform.
|7.17.09 @ 2:51PM|#
Holy shit, I just watched the video. Sen. Boxer needs to be fucked up the ass with a rusty umbrella stick. Watch the fucking video, MNG and ChiTom, and tell me she's not condescending to the entire black community!
|7.17.09 @ 3:01PM|#
His name was ORVAL FAUBUS.
What are you, the president of his fan club or something?
-jcr
|7.17.09 @ 3:02PM|#
Alford kept calling her "Ma'am." Why didn't she correct him
on that?
Because it's better than being called "bitch", as she so richly
deserved?
-jcr
Virginia Law Student|7.17.09 @ 4:07PM|#
I love the obscure governor reference. I'd bet money that anyone under the age of 35 and not from Arkansas has about a 2-3% chance of understanding the reference.
|7.17.09 @ 6:20PM|#
"John C. Randolph | July 17, 2009, 3:01pm | #
His name was ORVAL FAUBUS.
What are you, the president of his fan club or something?
-jcr"
No, but unlike a Reason writer or editor, I am educated.
If Orval was a Star Wars character or in Lord of the Rings his name
would have been spelled correctly.
|7.18.09 @ 12:07AM|#
---So when a black guy shows up on the right leaning side, it's
natural to say "uh, is something up with that?"---
So when a black businessman shows up on the conservative leaning
side, its natural for an elite racist liberal to say "umm, say my
good man, why aren't you over in the slave cabins with all the
other good slaves"? (like they did to Michael Steele, Clarence
Thomas, Condi Rice...)
---every year without fail about 90% of blacks, adults with brains
and not under any Gorilla Grodd mind control ---
The arrogant, elitist speaks, but his ideological messiah is
driving the adults with brains (who got fooled by the media
covering for our stealth candidate) are becoming
conservative:::
Gallup (hardly a right-wing organization) released a survey
yesterday showing that regardless of party affiliation and despite
the results of the last election, the self-identified political
views of Americas across party lines are becoming more
conservative.
http://www.politicswest.com/42127/gallup_americans_all_political_stripes_becoming_more_conservative
|7.19.09 @ 4:48PM|#
@ChicagoTom | July 16, 2009, 7:08pm | #
"Alford is an idiot.....Why does he keep repeating that he's a
veteran? Is that supposed to give him extra credibility?"
Calling Boxer "Senator" instead of "Ma'am" gives her
"credibility"?
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