New at Reason: Cathy Young on the Wildly Overblown Issue of Political "Hate Speech"

June 18, 2009

Political hate speech has been all the rage in recent days. After the shocking attack at the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, DC by a white supremacist, New York Times columnists Paul Krugman and Frank Rich have charged that the right-wing media are creating a dangerous climate of hate in America. Meanwhile, conservative outrage has focused on David Letterman's nasty jokes about former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin and her family's trip to New York. The charges on both sides are wildly overblown, but they also point to a real problem—one to which, unfortunately, both sides respond with stones thrown from its own glass house, writes Cathy Young.

Read all about it here. 

Comments

WWJGD|6.18.09 @ 4:43PM|#

Why are people so mean to Naomi Wolf? :(
To me, she has come off as a left-winger who is slowly coming to the realization that both parties are wrong and could become a good voice for liberty/freedom/free-markets/kittens. Sometimes eccentric, but I think it's unfair to call her the Left-wings Glenn Beck.

Zeb|6.18.09 @ 4:45PM|#

I find it very funny how a lot of people on the right now are trying to imitate one of the most irritating attributes of many on the left, i.e. getting all hysterical about some stupid perceived slight. And it all seems to circulate around Palin.

Guess what, jumping all over Letterman for screwing up a bad joke is just as stupid as the people who couldn't forgive that guy for saying "niggardly" even after it was explained to them. And if too many people listen to the right wing nutters on the radio, its probably because no one else is saying anything intelligent either.

Cal Lipigian|6.18.09 @ 4:53PM|#

Letterman has apologized while claiming he was thinking of 18-year-old single mother Bristol.

Does your use of the word "claiming" mean to imply that there is any doubt that he was referring to Bristol? The joke does not make any sense if he is referring to Willow. Whether or not you find a Letterman joke funny, they do follow certain formulas.

|6.18.09 @ 4:56PM|#

I find it very funny how a lot of people on the right now are trying to imitate one of the most irritating attributes of many on the left, i.e. getting all hysterical about some stupid perceived slight.

This isn't anything new. See the Media Research Center and other conservatives constantly whining about left-wing bias in the media. They find "left-wing bias" in shit you can't believe.

Elemenope|6.18.09 @ 4:59PM|#

The joke was tasteless, and he apologized to the wrong person. Who cares if Mama Palin's feelings were hurt? It was a joke about Bristol being a slut in so many words, and that is to whom the apology was owed.

But so what? It's not even in the same ballpark as encouraging violence. False equivalence. And even then, so what? People who act violently are solely responsible for their acts. Do the cheerleaders bear some moral responsibility? Probably. But never legal responsibility, and I don't think any one is calling for them to be so.

|6.18.09 @ 5:06PM|#

What I don't get is how these lift-wingers never batted an eyelash over thir own side's denunciation of America as "terrorist-genocidal-imperialist-facist-warmonger", insistence on spreading exageratted propaganda about baby-killing sanctions, white phosphorous, depleted uranium, cluster bombs, etc.

And then they start freaking out about how anti-aborionists are "inciting violence".

Fuck. The left has been intentionally inciting violence against "capitalism" and anything connected with it for well over 100 years, and NOW they are worried about "political ate speech"?

|6.18.09 @ 5:08PM|#

Letterman has apologized while claiming he was thinking of 18-year-old single mother Bristol.

That makes it only slightly better. Letterman shouldn't be making fun of any of Palin's children, since they didn't volunteer for the spotlight. It was as lacking in class for him to make sexual jokes at Bristol's expense as as it would have been for Johnny Carson, around 1965, to make such jokes at the expense of Lynda Byrd or Luci Baines Johnson, or than it was for it was for Republicans to make jokes at the expense of Chelsea Clinton and Amy Carter when their fathers were president.

MNG|6.18.09 @ 5:11PM|#

There are, and always will be, angry right wing (and left wing and in-between) people. While I'm no lover of Limbaugh and Hannity if those guys didn't feed the right raw meat some actual "hater" might. In some sense those guys channel the hate into at least more "mainstream" and legit issues.

MNG|6.18.09 @ 5:13PM|#

"Letterman shouldn't be making fun of any of Palin's children, since they didn't volunteer for the spotlight."

Oh bullshit. The joke is on Sarah Palin. Teen pregnancy is a big problem in the US, one that conservatives take a certain stance on. And here comes this potential President who can't even deal with the problem under her own roof, much less the nation as a whole. That shit is fair game.

"than it was for it was for Republicans to make jokes at the expense of Chelsea Clinton and Amy Carter when their fathers were president."

Yeah, I'm sure you were out there protesting that then...

GG|6.18.09 @ 5:17PM|#

Meanwhile, conservative outrage has focused on David Letterman's nasty jokes about former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin and her family's trip to New York.

Yeah, I'm with Bob.

Randy Bottoms|6.18.09 @ 5:21PM|#

DEATH TO THE HATERS!

creech|6.18.09 @ 5:24PM|#

And, god forbid, anyone here ever made jokes about Sen. Santorum's kids. Has Letterman, Conan or any other tv comedian made jokes about Obama yet? Biden gets lots of jokes but anything I've heard on Obama is pretty good natured stuff.

Gilbert Martin|6.18.09 @ 5:26PM|#

"Fuck. The left has been intentionally inciting violence against "capitalism" and anything connected with it for well over 100 years, and NOW they are worried about "political ate speech"?"

Yeah you'd be hard pressed to find any of them that went out of their way to denounce any of the ACTUAL violence committed by those anti-globalization protesters that always occurs wherever there happens to be a G-7 summit meeting or something.

Mister DNA|6.18.09 @ 5:27PM|#

I used to read Orcinus on a semi-regular basis, but since Obama's ascendancy, it's become little more than a Left-Wing version of LoneWacko's blog.

I would agree with David Neiwert that Glenn Beck is a blowhard and a dipshit, but I think anyone who is swayed by Beck's rhetoric doesn't stand much of a chance in the first place; they're probably swayed by Nigerian banking scams, too.

Re: Hannity and Ted Nugent... as someone who actually owns (and listens to) Intensities in Ten Cities on vinyl and CD, I'm always amazed at Ted Nugent's status as a conservative "culture warrior". We're talking about someone whose latest album has a song called "Bridge Over Troubled Daughters".

|6.18.09 @ 5:33PM|#

The joke is on Sarah Palin.

Good Ghod, MNG, rationalize much? Sure, sure, Sarah's national profile is why he made the joke, but he made the joke about her daughter running down to the dugout and banging A-Rod. That's singling out her daughter (even, charitably, assuming he meant the 18 year old, not the 14 year old who was actually at the game).

And, that shit about how if you're going to bitch about attacks on the children of one party, you should bitch about attacks on the children of the other party cuts both ways, you know.

|6.18.09 @ 5:34PM|#

Mister Kamikaze, The Nuge was on Aqua Teen. That sort of removes any ability to be a "culture warrior".

</|6.18.09 @ 5:34PM|#

I think it's unfair to call her the Left-wings Glenn Beck.

Unfair to Glenn Beck!

Urkobold™|6.18.09 @ 5:38PM|#

Letterman has apologized while claiming he was thinking of 18-year-old single mother Bristol.

AS WAS THE URKOBOLD. OH, YEAH, BRISTOL, YOU MILF. THE URKOBOLD LIKES IT THAT WAY.

B|6.18.09 @ 5:42PM|#

Amazing how a guy who hates Jews, Neoconservatives, George Bush, the Weekly Standard and Fox News and is a 9/11 "Truther" to boot. And before you ask, no I am not describing Jeremiah Wright. It is absolutely amazing that the left was able to successfully portray the Holocaust shooter as some sort of right wing nut job when his anti-semitism and Trutherism place him firmly in the left-wing camp. Christ, the fucker was even a registered Democrat.

B|6.18.09 @ 5:44PM|#

The first sentence in my above post should read:
Amazing how a guy who hates Jews, Neoconservatives, George Bush, the Weekly Standard and Fox News and is a 9/11 "Truther" to boot is being portrayed as a rightwinger.

Mister DNA|6.18.09 @ 5:48PM|#

Episarch,

There's a DEVO/Nuge connection: Nugent was also in Tapeheads.

Brett Stevens|6.18.09 @ 5:51PM|#

"Freedom" means people can have whatever views they want.

In my mind, that includes saying it in public, even if someone is cripplingly offended.

Next thing you know, they'll be denying science as "hate speech."

B|6.18.09 @ 5:51PM|#

"Oh bullshit. The joke is on Sarah Palin. Teen pregnancy is a big problem in the US, one that conservatives take a certain stance on. And here comes this potential President who can't even deal with the problem under her own roof, much less the nation as a whole. That shit is fair game."

If I have ever encountered a bigger douchebag than you, I don't seem to recall it. A politician's kids are fair game because of what the parent stands for? Give me a fucking break, you arrogant turd. And making jokes about having sex with a 14 year old girl? Pretty fucking classy. And don't give me the "he made fun of another daughter" bullshit.

And I would love to fucking know how you are so certain we approved of making fun of Chelsea Clinton. You have no fucking clue at all, asshole. And if you are outraged over that, yet continue to insist it is allright to make fun of Palin's daughters, then you are an even bigger fucking hypocrite than I thought. And I suppose you thought it was allright to call Palin a slut as well didn't you?
Are you defending the attacks on Palin because you secretly thought she was Jewish?

Tricky Prickears|6.18.09 @ 6:08PM|#

Speaking of Terrible Ted.

|6.18.09 @ 6:22PM|#

When you choose to go into politics, you take your family with you.

Just sayin'.

Al|6.18.09 @ 6:27PM|#

I heard about David Letterman's terrible joke, and now I finally looked to see what he said and . . . people are getting upset about that?

Just how thin-skinned have Americans become? I can't believe anyone can seriously attack Letterman on account of that joke.

Despite not liking Clinton at the time, I bristled at the attacks on Chelsea Clinton as being mean-spirited and pointless - but Letterman at least has the excuse that one of the Palin daughters did in fact get herself knocked up in contravention of the conservative values her family publicly advocates. That has meaning. It says that conservatives ought to keep reality in mind when they come up with their policies, and this brouhaha shows that many conservatives are hypocrites who demand to be treated with kid gloves even while they extend an iron fist.

And no, the lefties aren't any better. A pox on both their houses.

Mister DNA|6.18.09 @ 6:32PM|#

Holy shit. Why hasn't a link to this blast from Reason's past been posted yet?

|6.18.09 @ 6:45PM|#

Mister DNA, thanks. I'll cop to a misdemeanor schadenfreude rap in again taking such delight in Santorum's defeat.

|6.18.09 @ 6:48PM|#

Letterman shouldn't be making fun of any of Palin's children, since they didn't volunteer for the spotlight.

Oh bullshit. The joke is on Sarah Palin. Teen pregnancy is a big problem in the US, one that conservatives take a certain stance on. And here comes this potential President who can't even deal with the problem under her own roof, much less the nation as a whole. That shit is fair game.

"than it was for it was for Republicans to make jokes at the expense of Chelsea Clinton and Amy Carter when their fathers were president."

Yeah, I'm sure you were out there protesting that then...

Uhh, I was. It classless to belittle the relatives of those you despise if they are not voluntarily in the spotlight.

Hillary? She asked for it.
Michell Obama or Laura Bush? Less so.
Bristol Palin or the Obama rugrats? Not one fucking bit acceptable.

And as for dealing with that shit under one's own roof, perhaps we should discuss what goes on under the Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee's family roof.

MNG|6.18.09 @ 7:14PM|#

If a prominent Democrat had taken controversial stances on the War on Drugs and his young son was arrested for doing cocaine, would it then be offensive if Letterman made a joke about the son scoring some blow while his father spoke at a rally?

No, it wouldn't be. The joke is OK because it references something related to an issue the Democrat has taken stances on, and his son's troubles indicate that the guy is probably not the best person to make national policy on this issue...

Ditto Palin. The religious right has nutty views on teen promiscuity, pregnancy, and out-of wedlock births, so when her own teen daughter gets knocked up that topic is totally fair game.

MNG|6.18.09 @ 7:17PM|#

"And if you are outraged over that, yet continue to insist it is allright to make fun of Palin's daughters, then you are an even bigger fucking hypocrite than I thought."

The jokes on Chelsea Clinton were totally based on simply her looks. They had absolutely nothing to do with policy positions.

MNG|6.18.09 @ 7:23PM|#

The joke is supposed to be that this Religious Right icon (you know, the ones who keep pushing "family values", "true love waits", the evils of the out of wedlock teenage pregnancy crisis, etc., on the rest of the world) has an out of wedlock teenage pregnant daughter, that this bullshit ideology has resulted, when applied to her actual family, with a promiscuous daughter...

I frankly found it hilarious. Like I said, it's the same as if a prominent opponent of drug use prevention had a teen-age son get arrested for doing blow and a comedian made fun of it*.

*I specifically use this example because I'm a well known advocate of drug legalization around these parts, and so I would disagree with the policy point the joke was trying to make, while understanding where it was going.

|6.18.09 @ 7:41PM|#

Nope, you don't make fun of your opponents kids who get into trouble. It's classless. You'll note I am not calling for diversity and tolerance commissions, sanctions or policing. I'm just calling loutish behavior what it is.

ed|6.18.09 @ 7:53PM|#

After the shocking attack at the Holocaust Memorial Museum...

It was a random attack. Nothing "shocking" about it.
In fact, to attribute "shocking" to a random attack subverts the author's intention here.

Michael Ejercito|6.18.09 @ 8:55PM|#

The joke is supposed to be that this Religious Right icon (you know, the ones who keep pushing "family values", "true love waits", the evils of the out of wedlock teenage pregnancy crisis, etc., on the rest of the world) has an out of wedlock teenage pregnant daughter, that this bullshit ideology has resulted, when applied to her actual family, with a promiscuous daughter...

I wonder if you seem similar hypocrisy in the anti-gun movement.

|6.18.09 @ 8:58PM|#

So if we ban speech altogether, there should be no more violence, right? Why hasn't the government thought of this sooner!

Then if that doesn't work, we can regulate or ban thought, too. Easy peasy.

Doug|6.18.09 @ 9:19PM|#

My 2 cents:

1. "Conservative" talk radio cast the first stone. Limbaugh was the first to adopt the arrogance and sarcasm. Now it's standard operating procedure; think Maddow and Olbermann.

2. Political Correctness has transformed us into a bunch of frilly-panties wearing pussies that go ape-shit when we hear something we don't like. We've lost our ability to tune out stuff we find offensive.

3. The anonymity that the Internet provides has made us bolder in what we say to each other. How many times have we said something to someone online that we'd NEVER say to them face-to-face.

Feel free to flame the living shit out of me because I refuse to give a damn.

Doug|6.18.09 @ 9:34PM|#

Oh, and I'll go on record now and predict that Sarah Palin gets tossed from office next year. I don't appreciate the negative publicity she's brought to the great state of Alaska and I seriously doubt I'm the only one that feels that way. Besides, she seems to have lost all interest in state affairs. She got a taste of national politics and doesn't seem to give a rat's ass about us anymore. I don't think Alaskans will tolerate that for another term.

zoltan|6.18.09 @ 10:11PM|#

2. Political Correctness has transformed us into a bunch of frilly-panties wearing pussies that go ape-shit when we hear something we don't like. We've lost our ability to tune out stuff we find offensive.



I agree! Kids are a funny subject, such easy targets.

Mad Max|6.18.09 @ 10:38PM|#

'The joke is supposed to be that this Religious Right icon (you know, the ones who keep pushing "family values", "true love waits", the evils of the out of wedlock teenage pregnancy crisis, etc., on the rest of the world) has an out of wedlock teenage pregnant daughter, that this bullshit ideology has resulted, when applied to her actual family, with a promiscuous daughter...'

I'm not quite sure I follow.

Precisely what conclusion are we supposed to draw from the fact that Sarah Palin's daughter got knocked up? That true love *doesn't* wait? That out of wedlock pregnancy is OK, even in teenagers?

Or that Governor Palin should *pretend* that out-of wedlock pregnancy is OK, whether it is or not, in order to avoid charges of hypocrisy?

Or that Governor Palin should disband the Alaska Police for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice, which is currently terrorizing the state, arresting fornicators, and throwing acid in the faces of unveiled women? (I mean, I *assume* the Alaska police are doing that, since Alaskans elected such a Taliban figure to be their governor)

|6.18.09 @ 11:13PM|#

Letterman at least has the excuse that one of the Palin daughters did in fact get herself knocked up in contravention of the conservative values her family publicly advocates. That has meaning.

"Her family" doesn't publicly advocate anything as far as I know, but certain individuals in her family do. I don't know what values Bristol Palin advocates, but she isn't responsible for exemplifying her mother's values if she doesn't share them, and if so, she doesn't deserve cheap shots.

|6.19.09 @ 12:49AM|#

So what if Bristol got pregnant before marriage? According to her religious denomination, getting pregnant before marriage isn't hypocrisy, it's a mistake. Real hypocrisy would be secretly getting an abortion and pretending it never happened.

You liberals act like not only should Bristol have been stoned, but her parents too for not locking her up in a chastity belt. What a bizarre world you live in.

Art-P.O.G.|6.19.09 @ 7:38AM|#

Bristol Palin's 18 yrs old and so I don't quite understand why some people get butt-hurt when a tasteless joke (involving Pay-Rod no less!) is made about her. Although maybe I'd understand if I had children of my own. Or if I thought it was the 19th Century and that womenfolk must be protected from immodest talk.

Although, quite frankly, despite my pervasive politness I have an unsociable streak a 1/4-mile wide, so maybe I'm not the person to ask about something like this.

I do think that the talk about Chelsea's looks was cruel. Maybe it's the absurdity of the idea of A-Rod knocking up Bristol, but it seems less offensive to me.

|6.19.09 @ 10:15AM|#

"than it was for it was for Republicans to make jokes at the expense of Chelsea Clinton and Amy Carter when their fathers were president."

Yeah, I'm sure you were out there protesting that then...

Hey, MNG, go fuck yourself. Sideways. You don't know what the fuck I was doing then, and unless you know me personally and are in a position to say that I was applauding that kind of abuse you can just shut the fuck up. I criticize Republicans and Democrats equally when I believe they're wrong, and you are a fucktard who seems to believe that anyone who criticizes someone on the left must obviously be evil, and being evil, must be a hypocrite who excuses any kind of evil from the right.

Go die in a fire.