Damon W. Root | June 8, 2009
That's the question three Indiana state pension and construction funds want the Supreme Court to decide. As The Washington Post reports:
The Indiana funds contend that the sale of most of Chrysler's assets to a new company -- to be jointly owned by Fiat, the United Auto Workers union and the U.S. and Canadian governments -- breaches numerous laws. For one, they argue, the process tramples on the funds' rights as senior lenders to Chrysler because they would recover less than junior lenders. The Indiana funds hold about $42 million of the $6.9 billion in secured loans. Under the agreement hammered out by the Obama administration with most of the first-lien lenders, the group would recover about $2 billion, or 29 cents on the dollar.
The funds also contend that the quick bankruptcy proceedings pursued by Chrysler and the Obama administration -- a federal bankruptcy judge approved the sale 32 days after the automaker filed for one of the largest bankruptcies in U.S. history -- did not comply with bankruptcy law. The Indiana funds are also arguing that the Treasury illegally used money from the federal Troubled Assets Relief Program, meant for financial institutions, to prop up Chrysler.
And as the Legal Times' Tony Mauro notes, this is a tricky one for the Court:
Taken together, the challenges have hurdles including standing to overcome, and the Supreme Court may not want to stand in the way of an arrangement devised by the political branches that its supporters say will save thousands of jobs. But the applications also point out that if the high court does not intervene now, a deal that raises major questions relating to bankruptcy law and the power of the executive branch will go unreviewed, and the questions unanswered.
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Is anybody else getting the feeling that nobody in the federal gubmint has a goddamned clue what they're doing?
It's constitutional because the government says it is constitutional!! Now get back in line!!!
"Is the Chrysler Bankruptcy Deal Constitutional?"
Of course not, but the government tossed the Constitution out with
trash back in the "New Deal" era and it's still rotting in the
landfill today.
the challenges have hurdles including standing to
overcome
Huh? Not a lawyer, so help me out. How does a creditor not have
standing in challenging a bankruptcy? Seems to me that they are
about the only entity with standing.
Is it constitutional? Definitely not. Would the court ever rule in such a way? Definitely not.
This is a tricky one, mostly because of timing. Even if the
Court does want to take it up, doing so will put the Fiat deal on
hold until it decides, which, on the usual calendar, wouldn't be
until this fall. That kind of delay could kill the deal.
The Court could pull a Justice Marshall here, and write an opinion
on the merits that is pure dicta that would point out the
Constitutional problems with all this, while dismissing on
standing.
My bet: the Court passes on this one, out of
cowardice/institutional self-preservation.
The Chrysler bankruptcy is a shameless violation of bankruptcy law (GM's will be too) but I don't know if it violates the constitution. I mean whatever part of the constitution the SCOTUS has any regard for.
RC,
Couldnt SCOTUS do an emergency hearing? Do they ever do that?
Stay the order today, hear arguments tomorrow, decide by Thursday?
I dont think the deal falls thru delaying until Friday.
Of course it isn't Constitutional! The whole Auto Bailout has
been unConstitutional since Day 1. The issue was struck down in
Congress, and Bush/Paulson went over their heads, misusing TARP
funds to bailout the Auto Makers without Congressional approval.
Congress NEVER voted to give money to the Auto companies!
The President (both Bush and Obama) see the TARP bill for what it
really is: An allowance to the exuctive branch as part of an
unprecedented power grab. A slush fund for the purpose of doing
something Congress doesn't authorize, and a clear violation of the
seperation of powers.
I knows me some serious stuff about the domestic auto industry.
All of which is useless here.
I don't have a clue what SCOTUS will do here. I appears to this
casual observer (IANAL, thanks be to Odin) that we have serious
problems with executive overreach, trampling the prerogatives of
both the judicial and legislative branches. I just don't know if
SCOTUS is in the mood for an Obama smackdown.
Here are the funds involved:
The Indiana State Police Pension Fund;
The Indiana Teacher's Retirement Fund;
The Major Moves Construction Fund.
So the party bought and paid for with union largesse is about to
royally fuck their own? I don't know what the Major Moves
Construction Fund is but I'm feeling some serious schadenfreude
right now.
Couldnt SCOTUS do an emergency hearing? Do they ever do
that?
I don't know. I doubt they could consider the raft of
Constitutional issues raised by this case in a few days. They would
be very hard pressed to decide this case by the end of the current
session - the parties need to brief it, opinions need to be
drafted, they already have a full plat, etc.
I haven't even read the whole post, much less the supporting
links, but...
All morning, the yammerers on CNBC have been saying that the
government's argument consists largely of whether the harm suffered
by the plaintiffs outweighs the potential harm suffered by the
other parties. No mention of any actual legal arguments.
Should be a slam dunk for the Constitutional Scholar's team.
So I started on my high fiber diet, and long story short, I am a leaf on the wind.
They would be very hard pressed to decide this case by the
end of the current session - the parties need to brief it, opinions
need to be drafted
Havent these people heard of "pulling an all-nighter"? I realize it
might kill some of the older members of the court, but is that a
bad thing?
The Indiana funds hold about $42 million of the $6.9 billion
in secured loans. Under the agreement hammered out by the Obama
administration with most of the first-lien lenders, the group would
recover about $2 billion, or 29 cents on the dollar.
I suspect these funds bought their bonds at issue; unlike the evil
rapacious vulture fund fiends (who bought on the cheap in the
secondary market, from people smarter than the guys in Indiana),
they will, in fact, suffer a massive loss.
Here are the funds involved:
The Indiana State Police Pension Fund;. . .
I wonder what the consequences will be for driving a big Chrysler
sporting a UAW bumper sticker in the great state of Indiana.
Constitutionality hasn't been a requirement for the government to act in a long time, if ever.
While the question in the headline may be relevant in the
abstract, none of the issues before the court in this case are
constitutional in nature. They all seem to involve interpretation
of bankruptcy law and the TARP legislation.
So, whatever happens, the court is *NOT* going to find the
bankruptcy unconstitutional.
robc,
Standing involves more than just an interest in the deal.
To have standing, the plaintiffs would have to demonstrate that
they've suffered harm. For example, in the "misapplication of TARP
funds" claim, they would need to demonstrate that they are
suffering a harm because of that misapplication.
Shuttergreek and robc,
It's actually even more than that. The requirement for standing is-
(1) injury in fact, which means an invasion of a legally protected
interest that is (a) concrete and particularized, and (b) actual or
imminent, not conjectural or hypothetical; (2) a causal
relationship between the injury and the challenged conduct, which
means that the injury fairly can be traced to the challenged action
of the defendant, and has not resulted from the independent action
of some third party not before the court; and (3) a likelihood that
the injury will be redressed by a favorable decision, which means
that the prospect of obtaining relief from the injury as a result
of a favorable ruling is not too speculative.
When challenging appropriations legislation like TARP, they'll
likely lose on prong 1 because the court will say that they have no
particularized interest (greater than any other member of the
public) that is protected by that legislation.
They would be very hard pressed to decide this case by the
end of the current session - the parties need to brief it, opinions
need to be drafted
Back in 2000, they decided Bush v Gore in a very short time -- less
than a month IIRC -- obviously due to the extremely time-dependent
nature of the case.
What people keep forgetting is that ANYTHING is "constitutional"
if the Congress passes it. It's only unconstitutional when the
SCOTUS declares it so (in practice).
Congress writes a law, President signs it. There's nothing
unconstitutional about that.
Not that I agree with the laws being written.
It will also be an unfair deal for Ford, who've managed to stay clear of this mess for now. Don't you think the Gov't will go with Chrysler or GM when they need vehicles being that they have so much invested in it. With Ford on the outside looking in.
It's illegal under TARP and bankruptcy law. AND TARP itself is
unconstitutional. Double Whammy.
While I'm not sure SCOTUS would strike down TARP as a violation of
separation of powers, both the bankruptcy and the bailouts are
flat-out illegal under the law as written, and I can see how the
courts could rule otherwise.
Er CAN'T see how the courts could rule otherwise.
Seriously, can anyone see how the court could AVOID recognizing the
bailout/bankruptcy as illegal?
adam,
I can see how standing on the TARP issue could come into question,
but not the bankruptcy asset decision. It seems to clearly meet all
the points.
When challenging appropriations legislation like TARP,
they'll likely lose on prong 1 because the court will say that they
have no particularized interest (greater than any other member of
the public) that is protected by that legislation.
That basically renders it impossible for anyone to challange the
legality of ANY appropriations spending.
If so, that's a major hole in the system, IMO.
While I understand the need for something like 'standing' in
normal, everyday law, I don't like the idea of being required to
prove that I, personally, have been harmed by the government. We
all know we are harmed by it every day, but to be able to prove it?
It's like trying to prove a negative.
When it comes to Constitutionality issues, I don't think there
should be such a high bar for determining 'standing'. Any American
citizen with the dollars to pay for it should be able to challenge
the Constitutionality of a particular piece of
power-grabbing/misuse of power.
That basically renders it impossible for anyone to challange
the legality of ANY appropriations spending.
Yup. And that won't change. You are not eligible to demand
accountability from your government.
That basically renders it impossible for anyone to challange
the legality of ANY appropriations spending.
Yup. It seems to me that there are many federal laws that have no
pathway for challenge due to standing.
And it can also prevent enforcement of federal laws. Back
in the 90s, when Clinton was galivanting with his NATO friends
through the former Yugoslavia, he explicitly violated the War
Powers Act. Congress failed to authorize military action, and the
90-day limit on military force in the Act was violated. A group of
congress-critters sued, saying their votes against authorization
gave them standing. The SCOTUS disagreed, rendering the War Powers
Act completely dead.
"When challenging appropriations legislation like TARP, they'll
likely lose on prong 1 because the court will say that they have no
particularized interest (greater than any other member of the
public) that is protected by that legislation.
That basically renders it impossible for anyone to challange the
legality of ANY appropriations spending.
If so, that's a major hole in the system, IMO."
That's basically true. The few court cases that touch on
appropriations issues usually deal with some government contractor
or some other person who isn't getting paid because the government
is claiming that it can't legally pay him. Appropriations 'law' is
more made by the Comptroller General and the various executive
agencies comptrollers and lawyers.
That basically renders it impossible for anyone to challange
the legality of ANY appropriations spending.
Of course we can! We just have to do it at the ballot box.
I don't like that fact any more than you do, but c'est la vie. If
you're not willing to work through the political process, but want
to run crying to the courts for this type of thing, tough.
I don't like that fact any more than you do, but c'est la vie. If you're not willing to work through the political process, but want to run crying to the courts for this type of thing, tough.
Yeah, only pansies whine about being subject to the tyranny of the
majority...
The basic challenge by the Indiana funds, as I understand it, is not one of constitutional law, although that is also an issue, but one of basic fundamental bankruptcy law! That is, the funds are secured creditors and the bankruptcy court must honor their secured positioning over unsecured creditors. By turning over valuable assets to Fiat -an unsecured interested party, it would be like me giving all my good stuff (coin collection, vehicles, awesome golf clubs) to my brother, and telling my secured creditors that they are free to help themselves to anything they want in my sock and underware drawer. If this and the GM bankruptcy case go through as the Administration has orchestrated, then creditor rights as we have come to know them in theis country, go out the window.
Ginsburg has issued the stay, so I guess there is some level of reasonableness to the standing.
If you're not willing to work through the political process,
but want to run crying to the courts for this type of thing,
tough.
Tell it to all those gay folk wanting to get married, Tulpa.
Hmm. I would think that Ford might have standing to challange
the TARP spending, on takings grounds. That is, if the government
explicitly funds a competitor, which allows them take market share
away from you, or causes your stock price to fall, that could be
considered a taking. Ford shareholders could challange also.
They've lost money because Ford's stock declined because it was
placed in direct competition with a subsidized company.
Of course takings law is complete eviscerated already ... but I'm
just saying theoretically.
Not to mention shareholders of Honda, Toyota, smaller banks
etc.
Aren't Bank of America's shareholders already sueing over a similar
issue ?
Tell it to all those gay folk wanting to get married,
Tulpa.
If they want to condemn themselves to either a lifetime of
unhappiness or a messy divorce by getting married, they obviously
aren't listening to me anyway.
Well, they could get lucky and have their spouse die before boredom
and discord set in, but that's like catching lightning in a
bottle.
The Gooferment creates a "plan". (It just happens to enrich the UAW. One of Obama's biggest supporters.) The losers appeal to the Gooferment's courts. And, they expect "justice"? Yeah, right. And, the "tooth fairy" is going to put a little something under their pillow too!
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