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Financial Crisis Quotation of the Day
In the Washington Post today, former director of the
Congressional Budget Office Douglas Holtz-Eakin pretty much
says it all about the AIG dust-up and much else:
The ... lesson is that no matter how bad you think market capitalism is, the federal government has proved it is worse. Congress originally banned these very bonuses, then stripped the ban out of the stimulus bill and is now threatening confiscatory taxes on the lawful recipients. The Treasury knew about the bonuses and vouched for their legality but now wants double the money back somehow. How, exactly, the Treasury expects any straight-thinking financial entity to enter into a voluntary public-private "partnership" to solve the financial crisis given this track record is a mystery to me.
Yes, indeed.
Lefiti|3.19.09 @ 9:56AM|#
I think this comes under the rubric of having your ears tickled. You fucking libertarians are shameless in your predilection for any fucking sop that shores up the faith. Keep those blinkers in place!
|3.19.09 @ 9:57AM|#
One of the sad things is that no matter how bad things get screwed up, all our leaders have to do is mutter "something something the last eight years" and justify further incompetence.
|3.19.09 @ 10:04AM|#
Lefiti is a puzzling fellow, indeed. What are his secret
motivations? Who are his paymasters? I hope they're getting a
discount rate.
And what of Art-P.O.G.? Libertarian cosmotarian or apolitical
eccentric?
|3.19.09 @ 10:04AM|#
Left Titty,
It's really funny to see someone like you, with your faith in
demonstrably corrupt, masively incompetent government, trying to
take a cheap shot at us for having "faith" in the free
market.
It's not faith that shows us that freedom is the way to go, it's
history and experience.
-jcr
|3.19.09 @ 10:05AM|#
How, exactly, the Treasury expects any straight-thinking
financial entity to enter into a voluntary public-private
"partnership" to solve the financial crisis given this track record
is a mystery to me.
You'd think so, but a few hundred billion dollars can affect
"straight thinking".
|3.19.09 @ 10:06AM|#
Another reason why nobody should ever be bailed out for any reason. That goes for auto, banking, single mothers, sports teams, shopping centers and everyone else. How did we get here? Why do BOTH parties utterly fail to understand this?
The Angry Optimist|3.19.09 @ 10:08AM|#
not to be a pain in the ass, but I do start to wonder why OLS
and Lefiti are still prolific around here and I'm behind an
anonymizer.
Meh. reason doesn't really have its priorities in
order, but no matter.
If you guys want another real story on this AIG thing, notice how
the White House, with the aid of the media in the commission
thereof, pulled a hitjob on Chris Dodd.
|3.19.09 @ 10:10AM|#
all our leaders have to do is mutter "something something
the last eight years" and justify further incompetence.
Hell, it worked for FDR. There are still people stupid enough to
worship that SOB.
-jcr
|3.19.09 @ 10:12AM|#
TAO,
not to be a pain in the ass, but I do start to wonder why OLS
and Lefiti are still prolific around here and I'm behind an
anonymizer.
Also consider the Lefiti spoof wars. Didja notice is wasn't much a
big deal until joe started getting spoofed? That's when the
banhammer came out. Curious.
|3.19.09 @ 10:13AM|#
TAO,
I think that Dodd may have just realized that he might not be able
to bluff his way out of the mortgage scandal, and decided to take
one for the team. That way, he'll have a bunch of his fellow pols
who owe him a favor, which will be worth a fortune when he becomes
a lobbyist in a couple of months.
-jcr
PC|3.19.09 @ 10:13AM|#
"How, exactly, the Treasury expects any straight-thinking
financial entity to enter into a voluntary public-private
"partnership" to solve the financial crisis given this track record
is a mystery to me."
I thought this was the Fed.
The Angry Optimist|3.19.09 @ 10:14AM|#
The other day, I think it was Jesse who was actually
arguing with Lefiti; and so too Jacob Sullum was arguing
with OLS.
I mean, why are these guys even allowed around here, anyway?
|3.19.09 @ 10:15AM|#
You'd think so, but a few hundred billion dollars can affect
"straight thinking".
I would expect that execs will be notably cooler to any
arrangement, no matter how much capital it makes available to "the
system", that requires them to put the majority of their
compensation at risk.
|3.19.09 @ 10:16AM|#
This is the state of the affairs today: Our leaders are so
stupid, and we are collectively so stupid, that they think they can
turn on a dime and take diametrically opposing positions over and
over and over again. And they are usually right.
The AIG retention bonuses are disturbing, and I think AIG probably
should've worked out something very deferred to avoid directly
paying them with public money. That said, AIG's hubris is not even
within an order of magnitude as bad as the hubris of the Obama
administration and of Congress. In a rational world, all of the
screechers in our government would be forced to resign over their
dangerous, unethical, dishonest, and unconstitutional behavior.
TofuSushi|3.19.09 @ 10:16AM|#
True Liberals are not for corrupt government. We are for good
government.
Thank goodness for the November 08 revolution that got the right
people in charge again.
|3.19.09 @ 10:17AM|#
Nancy Pelosi is going to tax ALL Wall St. bonuses at 90%. (at least those who work for TARP recipients). My buddy and his wife (who both got bonuses from JPMorgan) are considering divorce to get under the 250k limit.
The Angry Optimist|3.19.09 @ 10:19AM|#
The galling quote is from Grassley, though, given that he sat on
the conference committee that finalized the bill.
For my money, JCR, it just looks like another bus-toss for Obama.
He's done it to others; why not here?
|3.19.09 @ 10:19AM|#
Sorry, I only got as far as the picture of Barney Frank. Then I
stopped and thought:
ZOMG! HOW ARE THESE PEOPLE IN CHARGE?!
TofuSushi|3.19.09 @ 10:19AM|#
domo,
Are you proud of being friends ith tax cheats who are taking milk
from the mouths of innocent little underprivileged babies?
Other Matt|3.19.09 @ 10:20AM|#
Nancy Pelosi is going to tax ALL Wall St. bonuses at 90%.
(at least those who work for TARP recipients). My buddy and his
wife (who both got bonuses from JPMorgan) are considering divorce
to get under the 250k limit.
If they didn't divorce prior, will it save them?
The Angry Optimist|3.19.09 @ 10:21AM|#
I'm with PL. AIG bonuses = kind of bad.
Grandstanding about AIG bonuses when you signed and approved the
bill knowing full-fucking-well that they were going to get paid =
galling hypocrisy of the first order.
I want to pound my shoe on my desk and threaten the Government with
nuclear annihilation.
|3.19.09 @ 10:24AM|#
domo,
Are you proud of being friends ith tax cheats who are taking milk
from the mouths of innocent little underprivileged
babies?
I have never met Tim Geithner in person, but I'm sure he's a nice
guy...
The Angry Optimist|3.19.09 @ 10:26AM|#
Please do not feed the unfunny spoofs of trolls or their
all-too-real brethren.
you see, Sugarfree? On what planet is TofuSushi a worthwhile
addition to the debate? I don't get it.
|3.19.09 @ 10:27AM|#
If they didn't divorce prior, will it save them?
Divorce is effective for tax purposes DEC 31 of the calendar year,
so it should work. But it depends on how the law is written -
whether the 250k applies to an individual, or a household.
|3.19.09 @ 10:27AM|#
I'm with PL. AIG bonuses = kind of bad.
Grandstanding about AIG bonuses when you signed and approved the
bill knowing full-fucking-well that they were going to get paid =
galling hypocrisy of the first order.
I want to pound my shoe on my desk and threaten the Government with
nuclear annihilation.
Right. The bonuses are bad... but they were enabled by the bailout,
which was/is also bad. More than bad. It's the goddamn problem.
But, then, the government is also bad: maybe 95% of the people who
make it up are stupid and the other 5% are actually
evil.
Bad, bad, bad.
And it's only getting worse.
JiggleTits|3.19.09 @ 10:30AM|#
"Are you proud of being friends ith tax cheats who are taking
milk from the mouths of innocent little underprivileged
babies?"
tiresome...
Other Matt|3.19.09 @ 10:31AM|#
I have never met Tim Geithner in person, but I'm sure he's a
nice guy...
+1
and another +1, and a beer if you catch me in the bar after
cleaning up the juice I just sprayed all over my office laughing at
that one.
Reinmoose|3.19.09 @ 10:31AM|#
You'd think so, but a few hundred billion dollars can affect
"straight thinking".
Funny, you only required $20.
|3.19.09 @ 10:35AM|#
The days of a rational world are over now that the children have assumed control, with the help of their press enablers.
|3.19.09 @ 10:36AM|#
It's so mindnumbingly crazy that they passed a bill that
protected bonus payouts then act like they had nothing to do with
it. My God, are we incapable of punishing these idiots? I'm not
kidding and not even being a libertarian when I think every open
mouth should be out of office--right now.
Them vocally regretting the "mistake" wouldn't bother me, nor would
them suggesting that the next round would be tougher for AIG and
others if they abuse the public funds they're getting. But brazen
lies and unconstitutional behavior needs to be stopped--by removal
from office. Without this, things are just going to get worse and
worse.
|3.19.09 @ 10:38AM|#
Thanks, Massachusetts, for sending this flaming a-hole to Congress over and over. Thanks a lot.
|3.19.09 @ 10:40AM|#
LONDON, March 14 (Reuters) - Investors may cautiously welcome
finance chiefs' willingness to do whatever it takes to fix the
global financial system and revive growth, marginally benefitting
riskier assets like stocks at the expense of government bonds on
Monday.
But the lack of a globally coordinated fiscal response to the
economic crisis from finance ministers and central bankers of the
world's 20 leading economies could yet dampen optimism and cap any
followthrough from last week's stock market bounce.
----------------------
mahesh17
Drug Intervention Washington-Drug Intervention Washington
Alan Vanneman|3.19.09 @ 10:44AM|#
I don't think AIG "volunteered" for a public/private
partnership. I think they wrote a memo to the federal government
saying "bail us out or we take the whole world economy down with
us." AIG could have gone bankrupt, after all, in which case the
guys now collecting bonuses would be penniless, not to mention
facing endless lawsuits from angry creditors.
Yes, the "outrage" is hysterical--people are looking for
scapegoats--but let's not forget that it was the Wall Street crowd
who came to DC demanding a handout. Beggars can't be choosers.
Under both the Bush and Obama Administrations, the Treasury Dept.
has tried to reassure Wall Street that nothing has changed. But
that isn't true.
The Angry Optimist|3.19.09 @ 10:48AM|#
Fine and fair, Mr. Vanneman, but the Government didn't have to listen. It did listen, however, and is now retroactively trying to change the terms of the agreement even though it had full knowledge that the bonuses were going to get paid from the public coffers.
|3.19.09 @ 10:52AM|#
The scary thing is that the govt knows it can't just tax AIG
bonuses, because it would fall afoul of the equal protection clause
- so they are going to hit everyone who works for a TARP recipient.
In doing so, they are confiscating a majority of peoples comp -
people who worked for JPM whose company didn't want/need the TARP
in the first place! people who didn't do anything to collapse the
economy.
question: do they want to target AIG bonuses and need this as an
way to get around the law, or do they want to target all bonuses
and are using AIG as an excuse...
Gilbert Martin|3.19.09 @ 10:53AM|#
So why aren't the bonuses being paid to Fannie Mae and Freddie
Mac employees just as worthy of being yanked back as the one's at
AIG.
The government took over 100% of those institutions.
If Congress wants to be all retroactive, it should go after
Franklin Raines and grab back the multi-millions he made while at
Fannie Mae.
JiggleTits|3.19.09 @ 10:56AM|#
"When we have an wage-free society we will all be free."
zzzzzzzzzzzz...
Gilbert Martin|3.19.09 @ 10:58AM|#
How about taking back 100% of Congress' pay?
Clowns like Frank and Dodd are every bit as complicit in causing
the financial mess as anyone in the private sector they are
screaming about.
|3.19.09 @ 11:01AM|#
I suggest that government employees income be taxed at 90% until the government is running a surplus...
|3.19.09 @ 11:03AM|#
I suggest that government employees income be taxed at 90%
until the government is running a surplus...
And that property taxes in the DC area be raised to 90%.
Other Matt|3.19.09 @ 11:07AM|#
My God, are we incapable of punishing these
idiots?
These idiots are the ones put in power to punish the last idiots.
We needed "Hope" and "Change", now we have it. You sure you want to
go down that spiral for another cycle?
Other Matt|3.19.09 @ 11:07AM|#
And that property taxes in the DC area be raised to
90%.
Personal property too, don't forget.
..|3.19.09 @ 11:09AM|#
I mean, why are these guys even allowed around here,
anyway?
If y'all keep rising to their bait they'll never leave.
Narcissists require feedback. Don't give it to them.
kinnath|3.19.09 @ 11:12AM|#
If y'all keep rising to their bait they'll never
leave.
Not much different than the first time your five-year-old says
"fuck". He or she has no idea what he or she just said, but it gets
a lot of attention.
|3.19.09 @ 11:18AM|#
Whoever spoofs TofuSushi is far more entertaining than the real one. depending on who is doing it. YMMV.
TofuSushi|3.19.09 @ 11:33AM|#
domoarrigato,
Just because I think your friends should be in jail is no reason to
dislike me.
|3.19.09 @ 11:35AM|#
When we have an wage-free society we will all be
free.
For certain values of "free", this is true.
JB|3.19.09 @ 11:42AM|#
Government is dumb, and Obama is really dumb.
When is he going to release those test scores of his?
JB|3.19.09 @ 11:44AM|#
Yeah, I no longer read comments by Lefiti.
Tofusushi is purposefully trying to be ironic, but it gets old
after awhile and he is only slightly funnier than Jon Stewart
(which is a very low bar).
JB|3.19.09 @ 11:47AM|#
I love Obama's recent tactic: I'm not supposed to know what's in
the bills I sign!
Not reading the porkulus is really coming back to bite Obama and
the demotards in Congress.
alan|3.19.09 @ 11:48AM|#
SugarFree | March 19, 2009, 10:12am | #
TAO,
not to be a pain in the ass, but I do start to wonder why OLS and
Lefiti are still prolific around here and I'm behind an
anonymizer.
Also consider the Lefiti spoof wars. Didja notice is wasn't much a
big deal until joe started getting spoofed? That's when the
banhammer came out. Curious.
To be honest, the management here coddling the all too Precious One
just added fuel to my fire to annoy him until he left.
But THO is under a ban? Jeez-Loueez . . .
The Angry Optimist|3.19.09 @ 11:55AM|#
wherever this THO guy is, I stand in solidarity with him, alan!
:P
jkjklol. :D
|3.19.09 @ 11:57AM|#
wherever this THO guy is, I stand in solidarity with him,
alan!
Not me. I think The Hairy Optimizer is an asshole.
|3.19.09 @ 12:12PM|#
How about taking back 100% of Congress' pay?
Good start. I'd also reduce the session to no more than thirty days
in a year. Serving in the legislature needs to be like serving on a
Jury. It should NEVER be a way to make a living.
-jcr
WeNeedAnAmendment!|3.19.09 @ 12:48PM|#
"Congress shall meet every year and hold its sessions..."
I've always thought this should read:
"Congress shall meet no more than once a year and hold its
sessions..."
|3.19.09 @ 1:20PM|#
WeNeedAnAmendment!
We need a whole bunch of amendments. I'd like to see one requiring
every Congress to hold its sessions in a different city, with no
city eligible to repeat for 20 years.
The Angry Optimist|3.19.09 @ 1:29PM|#
RC - NO! I'm in the 15th largest city in the nation, and I don't want those fools traipsing about my fair city for most of a year.
|3.19.09 @ 1:32PM|#
I say that we tell Congress that we've built them a Fortress of
Solitude at an undisclosed location within the Arctic Circle to
protect them from terrorists and other malcontents, then ship them
off to. . .an undisclosed location in the Arctic Circle that,
sadly, doesn't really include a Fortress of Solitude or, for that
matter, any shelter at all.
Bon voyage!
|3.19.09 @ 1:34PM|#
The irrationality of investors may produce bubbles, but the rationality of politicians turns busts into ever-loving clusterfucks.
Gilbert Martin|3.19.09 @ 1:55PM|#
"I love Obama's recent tactic: I'm not supposed to know what's
in the bills I sign!"
Another good one is Obama proclaiming that he wasn't the one who
wrote the bonus contracts.
But of course he was the one who signed the legislation that
approved honoring them.
Zeb|3.19.09 @ 2:58PM|#
If only Frank could have been chairman of the queers, pot and gambling committee instead.
|3.19.09 @ 4:57PM|#
I say that we tell Congress that we've built them a Fortress
of Solitude at an undisclosed location within the Arctic Circle to
protect them from terrorists and other malcontents, then ship them
off to. . .an undisclosed location in the Arctic Circle that,
sadly, doesn't really include a Fortress of Solitude or, for that
matter, any shelter at all.
I vote for a Club Med type place on some unnamed Carribean
island.
|3.19.09 @ 5:21PM|#
Well, okay, but only so long as we're lying about the island being in the Caribbean. And about the Club Med.
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