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Another Isolated Incident
But not a drug raid. A prostitution raid.
It was a little before 8 at night when the breaker went out at Emily Milburn's home in Galveston. She was busy preparing her children for school the next day, so she asked her 12-year-old daughter, Dymond, to pop outside and turn the switch back on.
As Dymond headed toward the breaker, a blue van drove up and three men jumped out rushing toward her. One of them grabbed her saying, "You're a prostitute. You're coming with me."
Dymond grabbed onto a tree and started screaming, "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy." One of the men covered her mouth. Two of the men beat her about the face and throat.
As it turned out, the three men were plain-clothed Galveston police officers who had been called to the area regarding three white prostitutes soliciting a white man and a black drug dealer.
All this is according to a lawsuit filed in Galveston federal court by Milburn against the officers. The lawsuit alleges that the officers thought Dymond, an African-American, was a hooker due to the "tight shorts" she was wearing, despite not fitting the racial description of any of the female suspects. The police went to the wrong house, two blocks away from the area of the reported illegal activity...
So you'd think that after the police figured out they had the wrong house, they'd apologize, and possibly even compensate the girl and her family. According to the lawsuit, you'd be wrong:
After the incident, Dymond was hospitalized and suffered black eyes as well as throat and ear drum injuries.
Three weeks later, according to the lawsuit, police went to Dymond's school, where she was an honor student, and arrested her for assaulting a public servant. Griffin says the allegations stem from when Dymond fought back against the three men who were trying to take her from her home. The case went to trial, but the judge declared it a mistrial on the first day, says Griffin. The new trial is set for February.
I have a call into the Galveston district attorney and with Dymond Milburn's lawyer. We're going on a press account of one side of a lawsuit, here. So it's possible—and I would hope—that there are some important details missing.
Otherwise, a police mistake leads to an innocent 12-year-old getting violently snatched up and roughed up by a group of plainclothes cops jumping out of a van . . . and they charge her for resisting?
If I were to embrace the power|12.18.08 @ 3:07PM|#
Michael Addison shouldn't get the death penalty; he should get a medal.
ktc2|12.18.08 @ 3:10PM|#
Fast forward a few months:
The results of the Internal Affairs investigation reveals no
violations by the officers or the police department involved and
all procedures were properly followed.
Dymond is in juvy because she refused to plead guilty to lesser
charges.
10:1 odds.
The Democratic Republican|12.18.08 @ 3:11PM|#
If justice is not done, we must declare the rule of law and the Constitution dead and buried, and all rights pledged in that document return to the people -- including the right to defend those rights and institute a new regime.
|12.18.08 @ 3:11PM|#
What.
The.
FUCK?
Oooooooh, professionalism in douchbaggery. That's what Scalia was
going on about!
Radley Balko|12.18.08 @ 3:12PM|#
The results of the Internal Affairs investigation reveals no
violations by the officers or the police department involved and
all procedures were properly followed.
Just talked to the Houston Press reporter who wrote the
linked story.
Internal Affairs has already cleared the officers who snatched her
up.
The Angry Optimist|12.18.08 @ 3:12PM|#
The lawsuit alleges that the officers thought Dymond, an
African-American
Are we still using that worn-out, clunky phrase? What happened to
good ol' black? I say it all the time; I also call my friends
"crackers"...even if they're black, so I might not be the best
resource.
The Democratic Republican|12.18.08 @ 3:13PM|#
no joking -- this update was just given on the blog Radley
linked to:
Update: This is from the officers' lawyer, William Helfand:
Both the daughter and the father were arrested for assaulting a
peace officer. "The father basically attacked police officers as
they were trying to take the daughter into custody after she ran
off."
Also, "The city has investigated the matter and found that the
conduct of the police officers was appropriate under the
circumstances," Helfand says. "It's unfortunate that sometimes
police officers have to use force against people who are using
force against them. And the evidence will show that both these
folks violated the law and forcefully resisted arrest."
The Democratic Republican|12.18.08 @ 3:14PM|#
oh...Radley scooped me...
but on the real topic at hand: FUCK THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS
The Angry Optimist|12.18.08 @ 3:14PM|#
Internal Affairs has already cleared the officers who
snatched her up.
Boo. Sue the department for Battery and False Imprisonment. And if
we can Fluffy off of the anti-IIED, train, sue for that, too.
|12.18.08 @ 3:15PM|#
Out of all the "crimes" that make no sense at all, "resisting"
has to rank up there.
How can someone be charged for resisting an arrest when there was
no basis for arrest in the first place?
And if there is no basis for arrest and obviously in this case
there wasn't, the police were attackers committing a physical
assault just like any "civilian."
This is a girl who was assaulted ( and a victim of child abuse, no
less- and probably sexual assault on a minor) at her home at night
and resisted her attackers.
They are lucky Daddy didn't hear the scream and blow their fucking
heads off with a shotgun.
|12.18.08 @ 3:19PM|#
Internal Affairs has already cleared the officers who
snatched her up
Well, THAT didn't take long. Just long enough to ink up the rubber
stamp.
The Democratic Republican|12.18.08 @ 3:19PM|#
and according to the story, the officers were PLAIN-CLOTHES! So I guess the moral is just let yourself be kidnapped in the off chance that they are cops.
|12.18.08 @ 3:20PM|#
The lawsuit alleges that the officers thought Dymond, an
African-American, was a hooker due to the "tight shorts" she was
wearing
Right. The shorts. That's why they thought she was a
prostitute.
|12.18.08 @ 3:20PM|#
Assault& battery
Sexual assault on a minor
Child Abuse
Kidnapping
If they were "civilians" I'm sure we could add a few more...
"
But
these folks violated the law and forcefully resisted arrest."
Armed thugs attempt to KIDNAP a 12 year old girl who is not s
suspect in any crime and she and her parents are criminals for
protecting her.. Give me a fucking break..See shotgun comment
above.
The Angry Optimist|12.18.08 @ 3:21PM|#
One of them grabbed her saying, "You're a prostitute. You're
coming with me."
Prostitution is a misdemeanor. Unless she was actively soliciting
(keep in mind I know she's not a prostitute), but if she were,
doesn't she have to be actively soliciting before it becomes a
"breach of the peace" offense? Or is walking down the street in
tight shorts sufficient now?
The Angry Optimist|12.18.08 @ 3:22PM|#
Right. The shorts. That's why they thought she was a
prostitute.
Oh ho, *zing*.
Although I would say that for my money, the type of dress is more
evidence than race.
Ska|12.18.08 @ 3:23PM|#
Exactly DR. If someone says "police" before they grab you,
assume it's the truth. Make sure all your 12 yr old daughters know
that, lest they take their chances with a beating and a police
record.
FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK
|12.18.08 @ 3:23PM|#
But they probably TOLD her they were the police. Just because they came out of an unmarked van, and were plainclothed doesn't mean you can just assume they're lying! They're the police afterall. No one would lie about that.
|12.18.08 @ 3:27PM|#
all you libertarians are always complaining that police dont wait until people come out of their house to arrest them well they did this time and look what happened the perp didnt cooperate big surprise!!!
|12.18.08 @ 3:27PM|#
Not that her attire needs defending, but most people ( that I
know anyway)tend to dress down when they are hanging around the
house. Shorts & t-shirt, bath robe, underwear, whatever.
Depending on the weather and location, one might even run outside
nude and not think anything of it.
A black 12 year old looks like a white prostitute because of her
shorts. right.
There is just not a single statement by the thugs or their
lawyers/employer that makes any sense at all.
robc|12.18.08 @ 3:28PM|#
Why the fuck would any prosecutor push this forward?
Would you really want to "win" this?
libertarian democrat|12.18.08 @ 3:29PM|#
I would imagine approximately 1/3 of cops are evil, 1/3 incompetent (which is where most of the problems we see come from, I think), and 1/3 are good, well meaning LEOs.
Naga Sadow|12.18.08 @ 3:29PM|#
ted,
I hope someone in a blue or black uniform kicks in your door. Hell,
throws a flash bang through your window too.
anonymous for obvious reasons|12.18.08 @ 3:30PM|#
If some cops beat my daughter about the face and throat leaving her with black eyes (and then had the fucking nerve to arrest her for resisting!) I can assure you a lawsuit and IA investigation would be the least of their worries. I would find a way to appropriately retaliate against those fucking douchebags. And by appropriate I mean sufficiently debilitating that they wouldn't be raiding any homes that didn't have a wheelchair ramps.
|12.18.08 @ 3:31PM|#
Someone who says "You're a prostitute, come with me" could be a
pimp, a sex slave trader, a John ( but not a John C.
Jackson).
And I hope I don't need to explain the difference between serving a
search warrant to a known suspect when he leaves the house and
kidnapping an unknown 12 year old child that does not resemble any
suspect.
robc|12.18.08 @ 3:31PM|#
anony,
I dont have a daughter, but if I did, they would have never left
the yard alive. Or I wouldnt have.
|12.18.08 @ 3:31PM|#
Cut the cops some slack, will you?
They're out there putting their lives on the line protecting drug
dealers from being solicited by prostitutes.
MAX HATS|12.18.08 @ 3:33PM|#
Every day the stories of police malfeasance here just make me
angrier. I might have to stop reading for awhile to maintain just a
little Christmas cheer.
Fuck.
Is SOP for arresting prostitutes really grabbing them and throwing
them in a van? How about "I'm a police officer and you're under
arrest?" How about that? Are we in the era of hyperviolent street
prostitutes who can only be taken in by surprise and superior
numbers? You've got to be kidding me. And she's twelve. Fuck.
|12.18.08 @ 3:34PM|#
The lawsuit alleges that the officers thought Dymond, an
African-American, was a hooker due to the "tight shorts" she was
wearing.
And all this time I thought that Chief Wiggums was just ripping
good satire, proving once again that truth is always WAY stranger
than fiction.
Naga Sadow|12.18.08 @ 3:35PM|#
robc,
Oh. Sorry ted. Edward/Lefiti is being a douche bag on another
thread.
Other Matt|12.18.08 @ 3:35PM|#
Not that it changes the underlying circumstances, but this is in
the original:
Since the incident more than two years ago,
Meaning, it wasn't like a matter of hours that the police were
acquitted. You know it would happen, but they should at least wait
a few days for appearances.
I don't have a daughter, but if I did, they would have never left
the yard alive. Or I wouldn't have.
Yeah, I kind of feel the same way, and I have two daughters and
some pretty good firepower at hand. I'd have been fucked over worse
than Ryan Frederick, but if you don't know, you gotta do what you
need to, it's your daughter.
Zeb|12.18.08 @ 3:36PM|#
Presumably plain cloths officers wear plain clothes to avoid
being immediately recognized as police. And yet they expect
immediate compliance with their crazy violent attempt to capture a
little girl?
The standard ought to be, it seems to me, that no one should be
expected to believe that someone is police until they see a badge
and photo ID.
robc|12.18.08 @ 3:36PM|#
If she really was a 12 year old prostitute, Im thinking there are better things to do than surprise arrest. Like, get her into a good shelter and then get her foster parents/counseling.
|12.18.08 @ 3:36PM|#
"""I dont have a daughter, but if I did, they would have never
left the yard alive. Or I wouldnt have.""""
The cops are lucky they weren't shot. I guess I should say, the
father and the cops are lucky the father didn't shoot.
|12.18.08 @ 3:37PM|#
Isn't that Ron Paul's district? Even though a lowly congressmen, it seems to me he's in a position to make a big stink about this.
|12.18.08 @ 3:38PM|#
My brain is consumed by fiery rage that has rendered me unable
to politely express my thoughts.
Wrong fucking race, wrong fucking block and goddamed internal
affairs, cover-up cocksuckers that they are, clears them. Fuck,
fuck, goddammit and fuck! Some Galveston cops, including whatever
malfeasant asshole signed the internal affairs report, need to lose
their jobs AT A MINIMUM! No severence pay, no
pension, no hiring recommendations should just be the beginning of
what these unconscionable pieces of shit get!
GRRRR!
|12.18.08 @ 3:38PM|#
The case went to trial, but the judge declared it a mistrial
on the first day, says Griffin.
Hmmm.
You don't suppose he looked at open shock and outrage on the faces
in the jury box, and just threw in the towel, do you? What do you
bet they claim the jury pool is "tainted" and opt for a bench
trial, next time?
robc|12.18.08 @ 3:38PM|#
The standard ought to be, it seems to me, that no one should
be expected to believe that someone is police until they see a
badge and photo ID.
You arent even required to pull over for police on the road until
you can get to a "safe" area in case its a fake cop pulling you
over. I dont see how this is any different. Until you prove you are
a cop, you are a kidnapper.
|12.18.08 @ 3:43PM|#
And so fucking what if she was a streetwalker? That ain't no way
to treat the fairer sex. What a bunch of cowardly douchebags.
Cop wife: How was work today.
Galveston cop: Great! I got to beat up some defenseless women
again! It was dangerous though, those twelve year olds are so
tough. I took three of us to take her down.
Cop wife: My hero!
|12.18.08 @ 3:43PM|#
Ted,
I think libertarians are far more concerned with the officers'
reasons for arresting peaceful civilians in the first place (see:
War on Drugs and nonviolent offenders) than we are with the
location of the arrest.
By the way, as stated in the article above, the "perp" was in fact
not a criminal at all. She was a 12 year old girl in her parents'
front yard.
I guess you're right though. Soon the Gestapo will be showing up to
arrest us for thought crimes, so Americans should just learn to
bend over and "cooperate."
|12.18.08 @ 3:44PM|#
For fuck's sake, "ted" is Reinmoose making a joke. Which I thoroughly appreciate because stories like this are too enraging otherwise.
|12.18.08 @ 3:46PM|#
Tell me again why it's inappropriate/in bad taste etc. to openly
talk about shooting the fuckers? Freedom doesn't go away in a coup
with obvious bad guys and good guys like in the movies. It goes
away like this. The water is boiling guys...
-K
Jennifer|12.18.08 @ 3:48PM|#
Maybe one reason they're waiting so long for this poor girl's
trial is to give her figure a chance to fill out, so these vile
cops aren't accused of pedophilia for manhandling a skinny
12-year-old.
When I was twelve, any pair of shorts I owned for more than a month
became "tight shorts" just because I was growing so fast.
Fortunately, I never underwent the trauma of large, scary men
coming into my yard, calling me a prostitute and beating the crap
out of me.
|12.18.08 @ 3:49PM|#
Why the fuck would any prosecutor push this
forward?
Habitually covering up for the cops fuckups makes you stoopid?
|12.18.08 @ 3:54PM|#
Too fucking true, ted. If she had been in her house, who knows
what kind of prostitute-y attire she could have been in, thereby
further cementing her guilt. Next time: no-knock raid, fellas.
Lesson learned.
But, seriously, is it necessary to hospitalize a twelve
year old girl? Rhetorical question, I guess.
|12.18.08 @ 3:58PM|#
is it necessary to hospitalize a twelve year old
girl?
You can't be too careful.
If they hadn't wanted to cop a cheap feel, they would have stood
back and tased her.
Reinmoose|12.18.08 @ 3:58PM|#
Why doesn't shit like this get national media attention? We get all outraged because the governor of Illinois was caught doing something politicians do all the time, but holy crap, don't talk about our national heros as though they did something other than with 100% honor!!
|12.18.08 @ 3:58PM|#
I wish this story was an unfunny joke or something, it's just so
fucked.
The LEOs are acting as bullies. The responses of some of you
indicate that you probably have the resources and will to seek
retribution for this incident. Obviously the LEOs "pick on" folks
that cannot or will not seek proper retribution. (although that
adjunct mayor case confuses me)
I'm not frequently in contact with any police officers, but given
my location and demographic info, I'm not likely to. The LEOs
engage in a significant amount of profiling that sets up this whole
scenario.
Also, keep in mind, I have no clue what I'm talking about. Fuck
tha' police!
|12.18.08 @ 3:59PM|#
Even accepting this was an "honest mistake" (which is a stretch)
what ever happened to "We made a mistake, we're sorry"?
What the fuck, charging a TWELVE YEAR OLD with resisting
arrest.
These fucking cops are not just stupid and/or delusional. They're
fucking pussies too.
I know, somone needs to get their pictures on a billboard with the
words:
"I'm a cop. I got beaten up by a TWELVE YEAR OLD GIRL. But I showed
her, I blacked both her eyes."
MikeB|12.18.08 @ 3:59PM|#
I believe that the father would have been well within his rights to shoot these scum even if he was aware that they were cops. Something like this is unacceptable and he is morally obligated to protect her reguardless of the occupation of her attackers.
Neu Mejican|12.18.08 @ 4:03PM|#
I do believe this case emphasizes the need for community
oversight boards in regards to the police. Those with the power to
use force need to be subject to having that power taken away by an
independent arbiter...at it is best if that arbiter is one who
might benefit from the application of that force, or be harmed by
its abuse.
I am surprised at the girl being charged with resisting, but not so
much with the father being charged if he manhandled some cops. The
concept of a monopoly on force and all requires it. Details, of
course matter, but Dad may have had other options, particularly if
the cops identified themselves during the incident. If he found out
they were cops and continued to attack, the prosecutor may not be
off his rocker.
Details matter, and I ain't seeing enough here to get beyond
skeptical of claims from both sides.
Jennifer|12.18.08 @ 4:04PM|#
Jennifer,
Unless you're into that sorta thing.
I'm not even making jokes about this. Twelve years old, at home,
sent out into the yard to do an ordinary little chore like turning
on a breaker, and then the whole thing explodes into a nightmare
with three grown men grabbing you, putting their hands over your
mouth, and beating you about the face badly enough to get two black
eyes, and throat and eardrum injuries?
Goddamned sociopaths.
|12.18.08 @ 4:04PM|#
Troy, well of course. I'm sure there are plenty of pimps that manage their hookers with coutesy and compassion, just like there are LEOs that have the ability to exercise sound judgment.
Other Matt|12.18.08 @ 4:05PM|#
The cops are lucky they weren't shot. I guess I should say,
the father and the cops are lucky the father didn't
shoot.
That's kind of what I was trying to say. I would consider it almost
an expected reaction for the father to reign some kind of deadly
force upon their skulls. To not do so would be, well, un
father-like. Hence, in that position, I would be more fucked than
Ryan Frederick, as I would either be dead or in jail with 3-4 dead
plainclothes cops in the ground, with the only possible upside that
my jail mates may consider me some kind of a folk hero or
something. Having not ever had the pleasure of an official visit, I
don't know, does prison work that way? Doesn't really matter.
I'm not even making jokes about this.
As well you shouldn't. Did you read how she's had nightmares about
police cutting her fingers off for two years?
|12.18.08 @ 4:06PM|#
I am disgusted about the public reaction to this too.
I a sane and just world the citizens of Galveston of all races and
creeds would be in from of the courthouse with buckets of tar and
bags of feathers and a rail for someone to ride out of town on if
another public official tries to bring any more harm to this
girl.
For the love of an all merciful God, you people she's a child,
she's only TWELVE YEARS OLD. You do not arrest TWELVE YEAR OLD
girls for being frightened.
MikeB|12.18.08 @ 4:07PM|#
Details matter, and I ain't seeing enough here to get beyond
skeptical of claims from both sides.
I don't think they do. They were at the wrong house and attacked a
twelve year-old girl. The father should have attacked them no
matter who they were.
Boston|12.18.08 @ 4:08PM|#
The lawsuit alleges that the officers thought Dymond, an
African-American, was a hooker due to the "tight shorts" she was
wearing, despite not fitting the racial description of any of the
female suspects.
That might be the most mind blowing sentance i have ever read.
|12.18.08 @ 4:11PM|#
Now I know that if I ever want to mug someone, I will just shout "Police!!" as I'm beating the fuck out of them. They will be too scared to fight back since they will just get worse charges later, on top of their beating.
Jennifer|12.18.08 @ 4:11PM|#
Radley:
In all seriousness, if/when the cops or prosecutors return your
call, ask them outright, "Are you saying that if strange men in
civilian clothes step out of a van and tell a young girl 'We're
cops, come with me,' the girl is legally obligated to go with
them?" If they say no, then ask why this girl is being prosecuted.
If they say yes, then ask why he police are trying to turn
Galveston into a kidnappers' paradise.
Chances are they will give some rambling answer that is neither
"no" nor "yes," but whatever they do tell you will make for a good,
if infuriating, story. I would also quote them exactly,
with every "um" and "er" and "ahem" lovingly noted.
|12.18.08 @ 4:17PM|#
Neu Mejican
I realize you're trying to be the voice of reason here with the,
"...but Dad may have had other options...", but for the father
there is a state of mind defense here.
Any reasonable father would attack the attackers
manhandling his TWELVE YEAR OLD daughter whether he knew the
aggressors were cops or not.
There is such a thing as the law being an ass. And this time it's
being about the shittiest one possible.
Neu Mejican|12.18.08 @ 4:18PM|#
MikeB | December 18, 2008, 4:07pm | #
Details matter, and I ain't seeing enough here to get beyond
skeptical of claims from both sides.
I don't think they do. They were at the wrong house and attacked a
twelve year-old girl. The father should have attacked them no
matter who they were.
Well then, I guess I wouldn't want you on a jury if I was ever
wrongly accused of something.
You do realize that all the information here comes from the party
bringing the law suit, right? You realize that they may have an
incentive to exaggerate, right?
I am not defending the cops here, I am saying that a one-sided
account of a dispute is hardly enough to make a decision about the
merits of a particular person's actions.
Details, of course, actually do matter.
Law suit claims the cops simply yelled "You're a prostitute." Might
be true. What also might be true is that the cops first yelled.
"Police, you are under arrest" or some such thing...
The assumption that excessive force was used initially goes against
a basic principle in our society that one is considered innocent
until proven guilty.
As much as I love JsubD's visceral reaction here...it assumes that
the incident happened as described.
I am skeptical.
MNG|12.18.08 @ 4:20PM|#
Internal affairs srtikes again. We need citizen review boards in EVERY locality. Certainly liberals and libertarians can unite behind this and ram it down the cop loving conservatives throats in this nation. WTF?
Reinmoose|12.18.08 @ 4:20PM|#
I second Jennifer's request
They don't teach fucking police compliance and undercover tactics
in elementary school. Police are the people who help us when we are
in danger - not those that cause us harm. I'm maybe a little
surprised she didn't call out for the police, or something
structured like "fire" or "rape" or something.
|12.18.08 @ 4:20PM|#
A bet a dozen doughnuts that at least one of those pigs was over 6 foot tall. A bet another dozen that they all have small dicks.
creech|12.18.08 @ 4:20PM|#
Institute for Justice needs to set up a division to represent
these kinds of victims.
Radley, sit down with IJ and get the ball rolling. I'm sure a lot
of us would like to contribute, be watchdogs for this kind of shit
in our community, and even travel to protest outside courthouses.
And the NAACP and ACLU and the LP, etc. etc. need to get off their
asses and make sure out of control cops get busted, jailed, fined
or whatever else is appropriate.
|12.18.08 @ 4:21PM|#
Oh, and I guess when I said about when they stopped locking up crazy people years ago they just turned arond and ran for office I was wrong, some of the became cops and prosecutors.
Egosumabbas|12.18.08 @ 4:22PM|#
Hey Radley, can you get Ron Paul on this case? This *must* be in or near his district.
|12.18.08 @ 4:23PM|#
If the sole source claimed the police subsequently built a
bonfire in the yard, and cooked and ate her, I would be sceptical.
This story is believable.
Why do you suppose that is?
Neu Mejican|12.18.08 @ 4:24PM|#
Isaac,
Of course, that seems like a reasonable defense if things went down
as described in the article.
A jury should hear both sides and make a call. If it turns out that
the prosecutor is bringing a frivolous suit to protect bad acting
cops, sanctions should follow...yadda yadda.
But, come one folks, critical reading of media accounts is required
if you are to navigate the world. Don't just swallow everything you
read here because it fits so nicely into your preconceived notion
of how cops behave.
Remember, Reason, god love it, has an agenda which, in part,
depends upon demonstrating that government act harmfully and
incompetently. As a result, they cherry pick stories to fit that
narrative. I will give props to RB for, at least, highlighting the
fact that there may be more going on here. I do note, however, that
he decided to post the story PRIOR to getting all the facts.
Neu Mejican|12.18.08 @ 4:27PM|#
What this means is...if RB were writing for the newspaper I used to be an editor for, and came to me with this story...I would have said, "Looks good. Confirm the facts through an independent source, and we'll post it. But right now, all you've got is an accusation. No facts."
The Bearded Hobbit|12.18.08 @ 4:28PM|#
.. the monthly magazine of the NRA has a column that lists
recent events where a firearm has stopped someone from being harmed
.. you never hear about any of those stories in the "major" media
either but over the years people outside of the NRA hear about them
and it might change a few minds .. I feel that Radley is providing
this same service and I offer a hearty "keep up the good
work"!!
.. Hobbit
|12.18.08 @ 4:28PM|#
Words almost fail me on this one...
Yeah, there might be another side to this story, but it would have
to be pretty damned amazing to outweigh the outrage of what we've
heard so far.
To me, the biggest villain in this is the prosecutor who is going
after the girl and her father. I hope he has to drink himself to
sleep...
Reinmoose|12.18.08 @ 4:30PM|#
NM -
I hear you. But I gotta side with P Brooks here.
Also, what possible alternative story can you imagine the police
releasing that would sufficiently counter the charge by the
12-year-old's family enough that we'd say "oh, well clearly they
were at fault and need to be arrested?"
Neu Mejican|12.18.08 @ 4:30PM|#
This story is believable.
Why do you suppose that is?
Because it is artfully painted in broad enough strokes, with vague
enough details that you fill in the gaps with your preconceptions
about the characters in the morality play?
|12.18.08 @ 4:34PM|#
NM
Given the amount of proven police and prosecutorial
misconduct taking the plaintiffs claims at face value is not in the
least unreasonable.
Neu Mejican|12.18.08 @ 4:34PM|#
what possible alternative story can you imagine the police
releasing that would sufficiently counter the charge by the
12-year-old's family enough that we'd say "oh, well clearly they
were at fault and need to be arrested?"
I have a good imagination. I can come up with plenty of alternate
versions of the story that lead to that conclusion.
Most involve there being a break in the action whereby the police
informed the citizens of who they were, what they were doing, and
that the reaction of the citizen was the initiation of
violence to prevent them from carrying out their job.
The details about how force was initiated are the ones that are
missing here.
|12.18.08 @ 4:35PM|#
The concept of a monopoly on force and all requires it.
Details, of course matter, but Dad may have had other options,
particularly if the cops identified themselves during the incident.
If he found out they were cops and continued to attack, the
prosecutor may not be off his rocker.
Just take it, right? Some guys beat up your daughter on your own
fucking property and dad is supposed to think "He's a cop and has
special rights that you and I, who after all are just lowly
"civilians", little people, don't? You shouldn't stop strangers
from fucking assaulting your own daughter because they claim to be
police?
You'd make a good slave with that attitude.
|12.18.08 @ 4:35PM|#
Because it is artfully painted in broad enough
strokes
I suppose she could have been startled to see a stranger walking
slowly toward her, saying, "I'm a police officer. I'd like to ask
you a few questions."
So startled, she ran full speed into a tree, knocking herself
senseless, and blacking both of her eyes. And then she might have
dreamed that she was sucked up into a tornado, and deposited in a
bizarre land, with witches, dancing scarecrows, and talking
lions.
Neu Mejican|12.18.08 @ 4:36PM|#
Isaac,
People here are taking a third hand accounting of the details of a
lawsuit as if it was the truth.
A little bit of skepticism is warranted.
Neu Mejican|12.18.08 @ 4:38PM|#
JsubD,
Some guys beat up your daughter on your own fucking property
and dad is supposed to think "He's a cop and has special rights
that you and I, who after all are just lowly "civilians", little
people, don't? You shouldn't stop strangers from fucking assaulting
your own daughter because they claim to be police?
You'd make a good slave with that attitude.
Fuck off.
Your version of this story is, at best, a fantasy.
In my statement, I am assuming that the circumstances are
sufficiently different that your scenario does not hold.
So, yeah, fuck off.
|12.18.08 @ 4:43PM|#
Even accepting this was an "honest mistake" (which is a
stretch) what ever happened to "We made a mistake, we're
sorry"?
Hahahahahahahahaha! You really think that was a possibility? That's
cute.
Reinmoose|12.18.08 @ 4:43PM|#
NM -
In your scenerio I can at best (at best) see cause for having a
beef with the father. But the 12 year old? Come on - assaulting a
public servent? Sounds more like someone's looking for personal
revenge on that one.
EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy|12.18.08 @ 4:44PM|#
Accepting as true the following facts:
* Miss Milburn was surprised at the time of the initial
arrest.
* Miss Milburn was subsequently released and not charged with
prostitution related offenses.
* Three weeks later the police came and rearrested her
at school
You can take it as a given that the resisting charge is a putative
measure taken because the Milburn family wasn't cooperatively
acceding to being mistreated.
The public arrest was meant to embarrass her, to show her---and
everyone else---the cost or opposing the police.
|12.18.08 @ 4:46PM|#
The details about how force was initiated are the ones that
are missing here.
Considering the propensity for the police to lie in order to cover
up what we might charitably call their utter stupidity, I am
prediposed to believe the girl's story.
Predisposed- I admit it.
"How force was initiated" on the part of the father probably did
not involve a significant degree of circumspection.
If that girl had been Mayor of Houston, you'd probably still be
saying, "Let's wait until the facts are all in."
Citizen Nothing|12.18.08 @ 4:47PM|#
See, this is why Neu usually irks me more than goofballs like
leftitti.
As for me, a cop's account is always suspect for the same reason a
"perp" is innocent until proven guilty.
Jennifer|12.18.08 @ 4:48PM|#
In my statement, I am assuming that the circumstances are
sufficiently different that your scenario does not hold.
So what circumstances do you imagine that justify sending a
12-year-old honor student to the hospital with black eyes and
throat and eardrum injuries? You think maybe the cops were looking
for a mass murderer, not a prostitute, and the child is one of
those super-Amazon 12-year-old girls that would make three grown
men have to respond with such violence for fear of their personal
safety?
|12.18.08 @ 4:52PM|#
Neu, when Kathryn Johnston was murdered in Atlanta, I called
every fucking bit of it* right. Right down to the rubber stamp
warrant and planted drugs.
Maybe I should have given the fine boys in blue from Atlanta "the
benefit of the doubt", but I just assumed they were lying
assholes.
Me. White. Middle class. Career military. Never been arrested. Have
gotten away with more tickets than paid.
Why would I be so judgemental about the law enforcement system? Oh
yeah, I read and connect dots. I've talked to cops when they've let
their guard down. I have a relative who was a cop and quit.
Wanna make a bet on this one? I bet the settlement for the wronged
family is seven or eight figures. Loser reads Lonewacko links for a
month and makes favorable reports back to H&R.
* Actually, I didn't predict the snitch being honorable and
refusing to help cover up a murdert.
Neu Mejican|12.18.08 @ 4:53PM|#
Reinmoose,
I have already said as much upthread.
But, you never know. Maybe the girl sucker punched one of the cops.
Without the facts it is impossible to determine.
Again, details matter
|12.18.08 @ 4:54PM|#
I think it bears emphasizing again that the men were
PLAINCLOTHES policemen.
If three guys dressed in normal work clothes jumped out of a van
and tried to grab me, I would fucking resist, whoever they said
they were.
And I would certainly tell my 12-year-old daught to resist them
with every ounce of her strength.
|12.18.08 @ 4:54PM|#
In my statement, I am assuming that the circumstances are
sufficiently different that your scenario does not hold.
I'll have to remember that for the next GlobalHysteria thread.
Neu Mejican|12.18.08 @ 4:56PM|#
As for me, a cop's account is always suspect for the same
reason a "perp" is innocent until proven guilty.
In this lawsuit, the perps are the cops.
|12.18.08 @ 4:56PM|#
What the fuck?!?
What could the internal affairs report have possibly said to
explain how "no violations by the officers or the police department
involved" and that "all procedures were properly followed"?
Considering
- They were in plain clothes and didn't announce themselves as
police officers.
- The person they tried to take into custody didn't fit the
description of the suspect.
- An officer "grabbed her" and said "You're a prostitute. You're
coming with me.", indicating that he could have easily been a
kidnapper, sex slave trafficker, etc.
- And everything else.
Does anyone know if the ACLU or someone is working on this?
Is anyone in the media doing a special report on this or
something?
Any letter/email campaign directed at the prosecutor's office or
Galveston police internal affairs?
Anything?
|12.18.08 @ 4:57PM|#
I think I could take a sucker punch from a twelve year old girl without beating the shit out of her.
|12.18.08 @ 4:58PM|#
Neu, I know you like playing devil's advocate, but you really went for the gold on this one.
Neu Mejican|12.18.08 @ 4:58PM|#
I think I could take a sucker punch from a twelve year old
girl without beating the shit out of her.
Not to ruin your self-image or anything, but I have met a 12 year
old girl or two that would lay you out cold with that sucker
punch.
kinnath |12.18.08 @ 5:00PM|#
But, you never know. Maybe the girl sucker punched one of
the cops. Without the facts it is impossible to
determine.
Even assuming the girl fought back with every ounce of energy in
her body, the police put her in the hospital. There is no rational
way to conclude that the police are blameless.
|12.18.08 @ 5:01PM|#
All this is according to a lawsuit filed in Galveston
federal court
This is not exactly a story somebody overheard at the laundromat; I
believe these claims would be subject to the laws regarding
perjury.
Again:
The case went to trial, but the judge declared it a mistrial on
the first day, says Griffin.
WTF?
Neu Mejican|12.18.08 @ 5:01PM|#
Epi,
Group think needs to be challenged whenever it arises.
Due process rights exist for a reason.
Other Matt|12.18.08 @ 5:01PM|#
In their statement, they say how the girl "Broke the law." Any idea what law they say she broke, other than resisting kidnapping?
|12.18.08 @ 5:02PM|#
Neu,
Well, you sold me--maybe my partner would beat the little cunt to
death. Details matter.
ktc2|12.18.08 @ 5:02PM|#
Creech,
IJ is a "conservative" organization. They wont dare start defending
alleged prostitutes and druggies because they'd lose their donor
base immediately.
Neu Mejican|12.18.08 @ 5:03PM|#
Even assuming the girl fought back with every ounce of
energy in her body, the police put her in the hospital. There is no
rational way to conclude that the police are blameless.
Didn't you hear? She ran face first into a tree while running from
the cops.
;^)
|12.18.08 @ 5:05PM|#
Group think needs to be challenged whenever it
arises.
Hyeh. Don't let up on your quest for "truth, justice, and the
American way."
|12.18.08 @ 5:09PM|#
Several people have talked about using force to defend
themselves. Once you do it, your life is over; there is no fair
trial for killing a cop.
Large segments of the public will reflexively side against you, you
will lose your job, home, and possessions, etc. At that point, you
have nothing to lose.
When you consider it like this, the police lobbying for laws that
make killing a police officer a capital offense may end up being
their undoing because it no longer matters if it's one cop or one
thousand.
Shoot the intruders first, then worry about their employer. If you
do discover that the intruders happen to work for the police
department, you may as well put yourself in the mindset that you're
looking at your own death in the mirror. You're dead-you either get
executed, die rotting in jail, or die on your knees surrendering to
the cops ("accidental discharge", "sudden movement", etc.)
At that point, you should probably consider yourself to be in
"sending a message" mode-that is, kill every single one of them at
the scene and burn their bodies if you get a chance (let the
families bury a charred corpse-may inspire some interesting
intra-familial conversations about integrity and restraint). Then
do your best to kill every responder before they kill you.
You're goal should be to make it so costly to be a scumbag cop that
other cops have no choice but to think twice about acting that way.
Fellow cops may also learn not to allow other cops to act that way
lest they end up responding to a situation started by a scumbag
cop.
It's extreme, excessive, and sheds a lot of blood, but so do police
tactics as of late.
|12.18.08 @ 5:10PM|#
ktc2 - I think you need to look into IJ a bit more. They are not
a conservative organization, they are a libertarian organization.
They might not take this case since their lawyers specialize in
licensing and takings law, but I doubt it would be because of fear
of losing their donor base. I'm a regular supporter and them taking
this case would result in even more regular support. I wouldn't be
surprised if that was true for a fair fraction of their donor
base.
-K
Neu Mejican|12.18.08 @ 5:10PM|#
P Brooks,
Later, I have to go take my tights and my cap to the
cleaners.
They've been sullied with the dirt of injustice.
EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy|12.18.08 @ 5:13PM|#
@me earlier
[conditional on some facts] the resisting charge is a putative measure taken because the Milburn family wasn't cooperatively acceding to being mistreated.
I should note that I would consider this kind of behaviour, like
any other use of official powers for personal gain or
aggrandizement, to be malfeasance of office, and that this part of
the story is every bit as trouble as the allegation of, uhm, poor
arrest procedure.
|12.18.08 @ 5:17PM|#
I have to go take my tights and my cap to the
cleaners.
Odd-I always picture you in a beret.
Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.
|12.18.08 @ 5:17PM|#
When my daughter is 12 years old this won't be an issue. She
will be taught to tell even someone dressed as a policeman that
she's not allowed to accompany any stranger, any where, but that
she'll be happy to give him her home address so that he can discuss
the matter in person and present his credentials to her father, who
is listening to the conversation right now via cell phone and has a
GPS fix on her location.
If anyone - even a guy in a police uniform - tries to drag her away
she'll physically destroy him. She'll be taught to do so with her
bare hands if she has to, until she can find a blunt object to
finish the job, and be taught not to stop until the guy is
definitively crippled for life.
That's the new standard, right or wrong, and it has been shown
repeatedly to be the proper response by the very law enforcement
officers who are supposed to stand as a barrier against such
things.
If even one kidnapping, rape, molestation, or assault is prevented
it will be worth it, because it's for the children!
Neu Mejican|12.18.08 @ 5:18PM|#
P Brooks,
My latest photo
http://www.gamerevolution.com/images/misc/Image/the_tick.jpg
Neu Mejican|12.18.08 @ 5:20PM|#
I must admit, I like this older photo better...
http://www.monmouth.com/~asalerno/images/tick5.gif
MikeB|12.18.08 @ 5:24PM|#
Here is how I look at lawsuits. I beleive that anything easily
checked is probably the truth and everything else is a wild
exaggeration. Therefore, here is how I read this story.
1) Three plain cloths police arrested a twelve year old girl in her
own yard.
2) No crime was committed for the arrest
3) They injured her in the process.
4) Father protected his daughter.
5) Girl and father were charged by Prosecutor.
6) IA Clears cops.
Therefore, barring any amazing testimony on the part of the police,
they are guilty and should lose all their assets and freedom. Of
course they have a right to a jury trial, but as they treat
everyone guilty until proven innocent, the officers deserve the
same.
The Angry Optimist|12.18.08 @ 5:28PM|#
I'm wholly with Neu on this one. It would be best to wait until either the response to the lawsuit were public, the IA report somehow sees the light of day, or both, prior to assuming the worst about the story.
Other Matt|12.18.08 @ 5:34PM|#
Several people have talked about using force to defend
themselves. Once you do it, your life is over; there is no fair
trial for killing a cop.
That's true, which is why I said in the original post on the
matter, I'd be completely fucked. However, pretend you have a 12 yr
old daughter if you don't have children, you see three guys trying
to force her into a vehicle. Are you going to stand by and do
nothing? I've got some pretty lethal stuff at the house, including
firearms as well as other stuff, all of which will be brought to
bear on someone trying to kidnap my daughters to the best extent I
can bring it, until either they are I are dead. It's really that
simple, if you're a father you just do that. The sad part is that
their older brother, who is about a month away from legally being
an adult himself, will probably pick up where I fall, then he'll be
fucked too.
Something needs to change in this equation.
|12.18.08 @ 5:38PM|#
You are assuming that all those statements are indeed
facts.
Yes, and hopefully I'm wrong about that. Or if I'm not, I hope at
least these cops suffer some consequences for this.
If it has been 2 years since this happened though, why is the
officers' description of events is not already out there (or if it
is, why wasn't it in the article)?
And even if the police announced themselves and the girl sucker
punched one, I still think the cops' response could be excessive
given the girl's injuries (and the fact the she was a 12-year old
girl with 3 cops).
EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy|12.18.08 @ 6:09PM|#
@NM
But, you never know. Maybe the girl sucker punched one of the cops. Without the facts it is impossible to determine.
Had the young lady resisted effectively or by surprise, she'd have
been charged with it promptly. Not three weeks
later.
I'm of the opinion that the charge was probably retaliation.
Similarly for the father.
Nate|12.18.08 @ 6:38PM|#
Hi, I know this adds nothing to the discussion, but I feel
compelled to write it here nonetheless. Please forgive me.
What the *fuck*. Fuck these motherfuckers. Fuck them all.
|12.18.08 @ 6:43PM|#
Shame. It should be an instinct that we DEMAND from all LEOs.
Honesty. It should be a trait that if abandoned or circumvented,
the absence of it is punishable by law. If our LEOs do not tell the
truth, then because of the office that they hold there needs to be
severe consequences. There was a mistake here. If the LEOs had any
sense of shame they would just admit it and let the chips fall
where they may. After all it was their incompetence and shoddy
police work that lead to this travesty. Anyone inside the legal
system that backs them in this travesty should be liable also. It
never ceases to amaze me that if you are a foreigner, gay, or black
then often your rights in Texas are what ever the Texans in power
say they are.
Most likely these people do not have the financial resources to
stand against the Galveston machine. What would we be reading about
right now if the 12 year old in question had the last name Obama
and the Father that came to his daughter's rescue was named
Barack?
cunnivore|12.18.08 @ 7:46PM|#
Neu Mejican seems to be under the impression this is a court of
law.
I suppose you're withholding judgement on the 9/11 attacks too,
since we haven't heard al-Qaeda's side of the story yet.
David Ross|12.18.08 @ 7:48PM|#
Based on Ron Paul's views as he recorded them in his newsletter, we're going to hear a lot of nothing. He supported the Constitution Party last month, not Libertarian. If he were British he'd be BNP.
Kolohe|12.18.08 @ 7:58PM|#
But, you never know. Maybe the girl sucker punched one of
the cops. Without the facts it is impossible to
determine.
twelve year olds, dude.
|12.18.08 @ 8:53PM|#
The only thing more shocking and disgusting than the cops actions, is that anyone would defend them.
|12.18.08 @ 9:14PM|#
Kolohe|12.18.08 @ 10:35PM|#
from Charles WT link above:
20. The family's five (5) month old puppy grabbed the officer's leg. The officer threatened that if they did not grab the dog, he would shoot it.
This almost reached the platonic ideal of a Balko piss-everyone-off
story.
Also, here is likely
the house in question
Here's
the side view with what is probably the tree she was holding
onto.
I think looking at google street view, while kinda creepy I admit,
helps to imagine how this thing went down. First, note that there
is no front yard, once you're out of the house, you're on the
sidewalk. And the house is at an intersection, so you are literally
'a corner kid' if your chores involve going around to the side of
the house. And it's a dark corner, the nearest streetlight being
diagonally across the intersection. Plus, that corner is on the
back side of an (inner city) locally branded supermarket, which
undoubtedly draws some associated business comprised of people that
are not part of the chamber of commerce. So my guess is that one of
the other corners of that supermarket was the actual target (or
alternatively, the waterfront two blocks in the other
direction)
Disclaimer: Google maps is notoriously bad with exact addresses,
but the house fits the description ('father was upstairs on the
balcony'). Also, I think at least two hurricanes may have passed
through since these events transpired and/or when the photos were
taken (at two different times: the weather is different, and in one
set, there looks to be a for sale sign in front of the house, but
not the other). so who knows if this is what the property looked
like then (or now).
Kolohe|12.18.08 @ 10:44PM|#
Hmm, reading the doc further:
The reported location [of the suspicious activity] was Avenue P and One-Half (P1/2) and 24th Street, Galveston, Texas.
This is, in fact, the exact corner where the Milburn's live, not two blocks away - if I am reading the complaint (and google maps) correctly, and if google maps is providing good data (all big ifs of course)
|12.18.08 @ 10:47PM|#
I still want to know why an officer was trying to cover her mouth while she was screaming for her dad. That's the behavior of a kidnapper, not an LEO.
|12.19.08 @ 12:55AM|#
OK, the list of "isolated incidents" is getting too long to link to. My posts in other forums have longer sections of links than actual comment.
Neu Mejican|12.19.08 @ 2:45AM|#
So, CharlesWT, why aren't you the one Reason is paying?
Why did RB not do this kind of leg work?
|12.19.08 @ 8:07AM|#
Neu--While you are, of course, correct that this is a single
sourced allegation and should be veiwed with a certain amount of
skepticism, I believe you are off the mark on this one with such
broad-spectrum skepticism.
What facts, exactly, are in question here that we shouldn't take at
face value? That the police didn't try to arrest the wrong person
at the wrong address? That a 12-year old girl shouldn't be expected
to not get hysterical when 3 grown men claiming to be police grab
her and try to stuff her in a van? That the police didn't arrest
her 3 weeks later at school for resisting arrest? That the police
didn't try and arrest a young girl who clearly wouldn't have been
acting like a prostitute when she briefly went outside her house to
to flip a breaker switch and their whole defense is that she was
wearing tight shorts? That they didn't try to arrest someone of
a completely different race than the reported suspects?
Yes, much of this comes from the plantiff's filing asking for
damages and should be viewed with skepticism, but this thing
doesn't even begin to pass the smell test on the facts that aren't
in question. To suspect that the police's account of the events
isn't exactly an honest accounting, but rather one to cover asses,
isn't a stretch. Not even a small one.
|12.19.08 @ 9:57AM|#
all of which will be brought to bear on someone trying to
kidnap my daughters to the best extent I can bring it, until either
they are I are dead.
And that's really the bottom line. I could not live with myself if
I stood by and watched three men stuff a 12 year old girl into a
van (regardless of whether she was my daughter).
And once I started shooting, I doubt we would take a break to
examine credentials and discuss neighborhood geography.
Could I gun down three armed men before I went down myself?
Probably not (although the .45 does have carry 15 rounds), but in a
scenario like that, you have to try. Duty is a heavier than a
mountain, and all that.
K.T.|12.19.08 @ 10:20AM|#
PLEASE follow up on this until we know all the facts. If the one-side of this story tells all, this simply takes the cake. I've now seen everything.
JLW|12.19.08 @ 11:31AM|#
Kolohe said:
"And it's a dark corner, the nearest streetlight being diagonally
across the intersection."
This happened at 7:45 pm on August 22, 2006. It is not dark at 7:45
pm on an August night here in Texas. Daylight Savings Time is in
effect.
|12.19.08 @ 11:34AM|#
The police may have thought she was an adult. She was 5'6" and 120 pounds at the time. This is no excuse for their behavior, but may have contributed to their using excessive force. Perhaps even these guys would not have ruffed up an average size 12 year old.
Neu Mejican|12.19.08 @ 1:12PM|#
JW,
My skepticism is aimed particularly at charges that they used
excessive force (attempting to stuff her into a van is her claim,
not an undisputed fact, so this is included). Without knowing the
details, it is hard to judge why force was used. The girls injuries
indicate that there is a good chance excessive force was used, but
given the vague one-sided account, it is impossible to tell.
I haven't had a chance to look at the report CharlesWT posted yet,
so I am still reserving judgment.
My main criticism, by the way, was not aimed at the girl, and I was
not defending the cops...my main criticism is aimed at RB (and the
rag that he linked to, I guess) for posting only one-side of the
story when it is not that hard to get both sides of the
story.
The reason this is a problem is apparent from the reactions on this
comments thread. People take the account as true and instantly jump
to the emotional "fucking cops" reaction without knowing what
really occurred. It is piss poor journalism.
RB is good enough that he will follow up, I imagine, but why the
pre-emptive post?
As for your basic facts.
Arresting the wrong person, a mistake, not criminal behavior, not
abuse of power. That is why we have that "innocent until proven
guilty thing." Everyone that is arrested should be assumed to be
innocent...and treated accordingly. This family claims they were
not treated accordingly, and their claims should be heard, but
making a claim against the cops doesn't mean they don't also
deserve the presumption of innocence also.
And, indeed, it will be important to be skeptical of the cops
account as ass-covering is a powerful motivation. That is why we
have due process. To weigh the competing claims.
Trial by media is, in my opinion, a very dangerous trend in our
society...journalists do it because of the wonderful visceral
reaction it gets (read JsubD above, and the bulk of the other
comment here if you don't believe me). Consumers of news shape what
gets reported with this kind of reaction and encourage this kind of
sloppy reporting.
|12.19.08 @ 1:30PM|#
Neu--I agree with you for the most part, but the
pattern of behavior of the police is the most telling
slice of data we have in this event. The posting by CharlesWT is
the plantiff's filed complaint, so no "other" side yet.
Singling out any one of the actions as a singular event and yes,
their action could be reasonably defended against malice or
incompetence on their part, but taken as a whole, based on what we
have, and there is a distinct pattern of abuse and/or incompetence
on the part of the police.
As to due process, I'm curious as to why the trial was declared a
mistrial on the first day. This whole thing could be a series of
unfortunate circumstances, though I seriously doubt it.
As to Radley's posting, I don't have a problem with it per se and I
too would like to see a follow-up as the trial moves forward. Yes,
his posting could be more thorough, but this is Hit &
Run a fast moving blog by nature and not a fully formed
investigative resource. Take it for what it's worth.
Neu Mejican|12.19.08 @ 1:38PM|#
JW,
but this is Hit & Run a fast moving blog by nature and not
a fully formed investigative resource. Take it for what it's
worth.
I do. See my comment above. H&R is not, however, being fast and
loose here. H&R is being deliberate (look at their pattern of
posts of this nature...no matter how hard they try, the plural of
anecdote is not data). Any accusation of abuse of power helps
promote the worldview and agenda of Reason, so there is not a
motivation on Reason's part to present the balanced case. It serves
H&R's interests to promote the reactions we see on this thread.
It fits nicely into a set of preconceived notions that Reason is
promoting.
So, double skepticism is warranted.
|12.19.08 @ 1:48PM|#
"""That they didn't try to arrest someone of a completely
different race than the reported suspects?"""
Scorched earth, arrest them all, let the courts sort it out.
Does that sound about right?
|12.19.08 @ 1:51PM|#
Neu--I'm curious as to why you think that Reason shouldn't have
an obvious agenda as to what they write and decide to cover. That's
kinda the whole idea and why I come here and not to Daily Kos or
LGF.
People read where they are comfortable with the editorial standard
of the publication. You, joe and a few others come here to be the
contrarian's contrarian and that's cool by me. It does make the
place more interesting than an echo chamber.
|12.19.08 @ 1:53PM|#
I will add that Radley has been very thorough, IMO, in his own, original stories.
Neu Mejican|12.19.08 @ 3:27PM|#
JW,
Neu--I'm curious as to why you think that Reason shouldn't have
an obvious agenda as to what they write and decide to cover. That's
kinda the whole idea and why I come here and not to Daily Kos or
LGF.
I don't think they shouldn't.
But knowing what their agenda is (and I hope everyone here knows
what it is), I am disappointed when people don't use basic
skepticism regarding the veracity of a story that fits so nicely
into the narrative that H&R is trying to create.
There is a difference between: "If this is true, I am outraged"
(which is, to his credit, RB's stance in the post) and the one I am
seeing in the comments which is...
"This proves what I have always said, Cops are muther fuckin
cowards that beat down 12 year olds for fun."
[/hyperbole-parody]
As for RB's original stories, I agree, for the most part.
|12.19.08 @ 4:14PM|#
Neu Mejican - You and your Details Matter bullshit. Yeah details
matter like the little detail of making sure everyone knows you are
the cops before trying to snatch a little girl from HER YARD in the
night. Details like white prostitute not black, details like right
block not the wrong block.
Yes indeed details are important and it is the COPS LACK of
checking details that brought this whole incident about. It is THE
COPS lack of detail that very well could have cost them all their
lives. If it was my daughter they had grabbed they would be dead
right now not maybe, not possibly, but definetly, DEAD. So who
should be worried about getting the details right, the cops or the
people sitting in their homes bothering no one? Seems to me if your
intention is to slide open a van door and in plain clothes grab a
girl off the street you have damn well better have your fucking
details right else risk dying right then and there for their LACK
OF DETAIL. If these are the best critical thinking skills cops can
produce I rather just risk taking my chances without any cops. Oh
thats right I already am on my own even with them. Just that now I
have to worry not only about criminals but also the police. FUCKING
LOVELY.
We called Galveston Gilligans Island when I living in Houston. Some
things never change.
J Sub D is right you would make a wonderful slave. But hey you go
on believing cops can do no wrong and always tell the truth even
when they fuck up I know it is easier that way, right.
|12.19.08 @ 5:32PM|#
Ooooohhhh this angers the shit out of me!
"The city has investigated the matter and found that the conduct of
the police officers was appropriate under the circumstances,"
Helfand says. "It's unfortunate that sometimes police officers have
to use force against people who are using force against them. And
the evidence will show that both these folks violated the law and
forcefully resisted arrest."
That is all fucking bullshit I say. Since when do our public
servants have the power over the people of this country in such
away that they can brutalize our children without due cause and
without warrant. Mistaken identity is NO FUCKING EXCUSE! Then to
fucking blame her for resisting and lay a claim of assault? On her
and her father? These officers need hogtied and so do any city
council members, judges, DAs etc etc.. who place fault on this girl
and her family. The resaulting so-called assault was in defense of
an unwarranted assault to fucking begin with. Had that been my
daughter, there would be three dead cops right now. I would have
shot them dead in my own damn yard because no none. NO ONE will do
this to my children or family. I'm not afraid of jail, but let it
be known we need to fight back and stop this kind of shit. Who runs
this country anyway? Is it US or THEM? Last I look, it was WE the
people! We should demand that our status be recognized and pull
those out of office whom don't do our bidding. If WE the people say
that we want these officers to lose their jobs over incidents like
this then there should be no question. It is our tax paying dollars
that pay their fucking wages
|12.19.08 @ 6:31PM|#
Will - Just think had this been someone say mugging a little old
lady and the cops had roughed him up it would be all over the news.
Rodney King etc ring any bells.
So now we have cops that beat you no matter who you are when they
"encounter you" or taser you etc for the cops and of course your
protection and safety.
Add to that the media only sensationalizing the beat downs given to
actual criminals. Not that I am for that or anything for a criminal
at the time of arrest. Then these criminals oops I mean cops many
times get off or in a small percentage of times the real criminal
gets paid off in tax money. Either way the regular tax paying
civilian loses.
Yet when they fuck up like this and have corruption up so high you
can't see the top anymore (I am from New Orleans I know corruption)
the media says nothing because the case does shine the good light
on our benevolant dictators, our hero's and savior's of all
mankind, the fucking cop's! Also I am sure many of the media
outlets are well aware of the corruption and cover ups yet say
nothing because they know it does happen all the time and they
could be next in line for a good old fuckin via the justice system
for doing so.
Perhaps someone should dress a blow up hooker doll in tight shorts
and call it in to the cops like Kop busters.
Neu Mejican|12.19.08 @ 6:34PM|#
Dee,
J Sub D is right you would make a wonderful slave. But hey you
go on believing cops can do no wrong and always tell the truth even
when they fuck up I know it is easier that way, right.
You, my friend, are an idiot.
If you look up thread you will notice that my first response to
this was to point out that this case illustrates why there is a
need for strong citizen oversight of the police. Rather than saying
that the cops can do no wrong, the first thing I said was...BECAUSE
THE COPS CAN ABUSE THEIR POWER THERE NEEDS TO BE STRONG
OVERSIGHT.
So, like JsubD, you can, what was it...oh yeah, fuck off.
|12.19.08 @ 7:44PM|#
Yep I am an idiot and your a genius. Why didn't we think of
policing the police a long time ago? Oh yeah thats right we have
been trying to do that oh FOR FUCKING EVER.
So put your opium pipe down and quit dreaming. Those in control of
you will never cede control of themselves to you. Those you are a
slave like the rest of us only "details matter" to you. I could
give a fuck about you or details.
Neu Mejican|12.19.08 @ 8:09PM|#
Those you are a slave like the rest of us only "details
matter" to you.
Huh?
Oh yeah thats right we have been trying to do that oh FOR
FUCKING EVER.
Robust citizen review boards exist in many communities.
http://www.nacole.org/
|12.19.08 @ 10:39PM|#
Please send an e-mail of complaint to the top Galveston County prosecutor, Kurt Sistrunk. Demand dismissal of the charges against the girl and her father, and demand prosecution and incarceration of the brownshirt thugs masquerading as law enforcement officers. The prosecutor's website claims they don't have the capability of responding to e-mails and says to use the phone or snail mail, but I managed to find his e-mail address out. It is kurt.sistrunk@co.galveston.tx.us
|12.20.08 @ 10:26PM|#
Neu Mejican, no doubt you know more about prostitution arrests
than I do. It seems to me that SOP for such an arrest is to have a
uniformed officer quite close by to make the actual arrest. Yet in
this case, there do not seem to have been any uniformed officers
nearby. Why do you suppose that was?
Also, can you think of a sound, logical police reason why police
officers would want to put their hand on the mouth of a 12 year old
girl?
I can't. The only people I can think of who would act that way are
kidnappers.
Question: is it possible that the three officers were
"freelancing", and got caught doing it, and now are using the
authority of office to cover it up?
Neu Mejican|12.21.08 @ 3:02PM|#
Anti Dhimmi | December 20, 2008, 10:26pm | #
I guess anything's possible.
Occam's Razor, however, would work against your convoluted
explanation.
Again, I point out that are assuming you have the facts.
You are certain that the cops tried to cover her mouth? Really?
|12.21.08 @ 10:22PM|#
Neu Mejican, can you explain why there were no uniformed
officers involved in the incident? Wouldn't it make sense for the
plain clothes officers to obtain a solicitation from the alleged
prostitute, then turn her over to the uniformed officer for arrest?
Isn't it potentially dangerous to have only plainclothes officers
making such an arrest?
Would you please apply Occams' Razor to the procedures
described?
(Assuming for the sake of argument that you know what tool you are
using)
The only evidence I have for the officers placing their hands over
the mouth of a 12 year old is from the complaint. What evidence do
you have that proper police procedure was followed in this
arrest?
Justin|12.23.08 @ 8:25PM|#
Why report this before "all the facts" are in Neu? I'll tell you
why - because the police should FEAR citizens, not tolerate
them.
As far as I am concerned, cops accused of excessive force are
guilty until proven innocent, for the same reason that citizens are
innocent until proven guilty. To fucking protect citizens.
I used to think the ol' british system of disarming police was
retarded. Now I am in favor of a british police force and an armed
citizenry. Make those bastards club the puppies to death.
Nobody Important|12.25.08 @ 3:26PM|#
Mike Hunt | December 19, 2008, 11:42am
so honor students can't be hookers???
www.imdb.com/title/tt0086896/
Angel (1984)
Tagline: High School Honor Student by Day. Hollywood Hooker by
Night.
|12.28.08 @ 11:55AM|#
I'm confused. Is Miss Milburn still in juvie, or were the charges dropped? Either way, I hope she wins big time against these bastards.
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