"Under normal economic conditions we would prefer that markets determine the ultimate fate of private firms"

Matt Welch | December 12, 2008

By now, you should know what that means.

Comments

z|12.12.08 @ 10:23AM|#

Weren't TARP funds supposed to be allocated from the Secretary of the Treasury, without influence from political considerations from Congress or White House? Oh well, I guess they didn't mean it.

Nigel Watt|12.12.08 @ 10:25AM|#

It means we're well and truly fucked.

Benedict XVI|12.12.08 @ 10:27AM|#

Markets should determine everybody's fate. Interfering with the working of the Market is just unnatural. It's sacriligious! The Market is a divinely ordained disciplinary device.

Hail Market,
Full of grace,
Prosperity is with thee.
Blessed art thou among systems,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Capital.
Holy Market,
Mother of Goods,
pray for us consumers now,
and at the hour of our bankruptcy.
Amen.

|12.12.08 @ 10:28AM|#

I wonder if CNBC is charging the UAW for the infomercial currently in progress.

The sky is falling!!!!!!

Reb Schneerson|12.12.08 @ 10:34AM|#

Baruch ata adoMarket, eloheinu melek ha-olam asherkideshanu be-mitzvotav ve-tzivanu lalekhet bankrupt.

Alan Greenspan, Heretic|12.12.08 @ 10:38AM|#

"Over the past year, some of the critical pillars underlying market competition arguably have failed."

George Soros, Heretic|12.12.08 @ 10:41AM|#

"This idea was called laissez faire in the nineteenth century... I have found a better name for it: market fundamentalism."

|12.12.08 @ 10:47AM|#

I already despised Bush, but for some reason his craven waffling on this entire issue is really stoking the flames of hatred. He has no fucking political capital to lose! Do the right fucking thing you utter tool.

|12.12.08 @ 10:49AM|#

Do the right fucking thing you utter tool.

He literally can't. Every day is opposite day for George W. Bush.

SIV|12.12.08 @ 10:50AM|#

Senator Jim DeMint(R-SC) suggested that if the bailout passes American workers will riot.I hope he is right.

robc|12.12.08 @ 10:55AM|#

How is it even possible for a market to fail? A market is an abstract construct. If people trade good A for good B, a market exists. If people refuse to buy good A because it sucks (or any other reason), that doesnt mean the market has failed.

robc|12.12.08 @ 10:58AM|#

SIV,

Senator Jim DeMint(R-SC) suggested that if the bailout passes American workers will riot.I hope he is right.

I doubt it.

When the Kelo decision passed, those of us who support property rights should have showed up in CT armed and surrounded the house and refused to allow it to be taken. But we didnt.

When this bailout talk started, a few million armed opponents should have showed up in DC and (like TN with the state income tax) circled the capitol building making noise and etc until a few congressman died and they gave up the idea. But we didnt.

Etc...Etc...Etc

I am part of the problem. But I dont see enough people to make being part of the solution happen.

|12.12.08 @ 11:00AM|#

for the love of god, GWB just keeps adding more condiments to this crap sandwich of a presidency.

Democrats hated him and now he's determined to make republicans hate him too. May that man die unhonored, unwashed and in an unmarked grave (or in a marked grave under a urinal)

sage|12.12.08 @ 11:02AM|#

What are normal economic conditions? Is there some magic number for growth, unemployment, inflation, etc., that qualifies as "normal?"

cunnivore|12.12.08 @ 11:06AM|#

How is it even possible for a market to fail?

The market failed in the sense that it "failed" to give them what they want. Sort of like Neanderthals would think evolution failed.

|12.12.08 @ 11:10AM|#

"Under normal economic conditions we would prefer that markets determine the ultimate fate of private firms,"

AAAAARRRGGGHH!!!
BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT

I call Bull Shit. This makes the whole thing twice as rotten. These asshats have done nothing but manufacture pretexts for stuffing the public teat into their cronies gaping maws since day fucking one. And it's not even that they have the balls to deny their 100% corrupt and evil intent. It's that they get away with it. Most people actually believe them. And more than a few (I'm looking at you Naomi) live in a bizarro world were everything they do is for the market.

AAAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!

|12.12.08 @ 11:10AM|#

DeMint is just another embarassment like Newt, soon you will see.

Until yesterday Bernie Madoff was happy too. Some that a 'condition' as well.

|12.12.08 @ 11:12AM|#

The market has failed to provide me a buyer willing to pay what I want; Bail me out!

|12.12.08 @ 11:15AM|#

"What are normal economic conditions? Is there some magic number for growth, unemployment, inflation, etc., that qualifies as "normal?""

Normal economic conditions are whatever the next president inherits.

Citizen Nothing|12.12.08 @ 11:15AM|#

Market failure is an oxymoron.
George W. is just a moron.

|12.12.08 @ 11:15AM|#

Bush for CarCzar!

Citizen Nothing|12.12.08 @ 11:16AM|#

And where ARE all the Bush defenders who used to pop up here regularly?

|12.12.08 @ 11:19AM|#

CN, Bush is indefensible by even the stupidest partisan hacks at this point.

|12.12.08 @ 11:21AM|#

For the love of God someone get Bush a bigger pretzel!

Doug|12.12.08 @ 11:23AM|#

The stupid son of a bitch did enough damage when he had something to lose. Now that he's a lame dick [sic] his potential for destruction is mind boggling.

|12.12.08 @ 11:25AM|#

So practically, I have lost around 40% of my personal savings since june. Since I'm fucked anyway, is there a practical way for me to maximize my future security? Maybe I shouldn't quit my job...

|12.12.08 @ 11:28AM|#

nevermind, the actions herein have little/no effect on me or my control over my monies.

Jordan|12.12.08 @ 11:29AM|#

"Normal market conditions"

As opposed to a government-created depression.

Markets should determine everybody's fate. Interfering with the working of the Market is just unnatural.

You do realize that the "Market" is not some monolithic entity, right? It's just the interactions of people. So yes, people should determine their own fates. I'm sorry the thought of individual liberty makes dumbasses like you wet their pants.

cunnivore|12.12.08 @ 11:32AM|#

And where ARE all the Bush defenders who used to pop up here regularly?

I think you're confusing "Bush defenders" with "Iraq war defenders". The latter includes TallDave, RC Dean, and the others, but they have been very critical of Bush on domestic spending policy.

I don't really know of any regulars here who defend Bush's economic performance.

cunnivore|12.12.08 @ 11:35AM|#

While Bush deserves every bit of criticism he gets, keep in mind he's not doing this singlehandedly. In fact, if he does divert funds from the TARP to bail out the automakers, he'll just be doing what Congressional Dems wanted him to do two weeks ago.

As stupid and destructive as his actions have been, he could have done none of it without the D's being complicit.

SIV|12.12.08 @ 11:36AM|#

robc,

If it happens they won't be motivated by principles of liberty.It will be more like the Bonus March.

Travis|12.12.08 @ 11:41AM|#

"Vice President Cheney had told senator Thursday that it could be "Herbert Hoover" time if the bailout failed, which it did several hours later."

I've never wanted someone's pacemaker to fail until now.

Reformed Republican|12.12.08 @ 11:41AM|#

Interfering with the working of the Market is just unnatural.

Because we see how well all of the market interference of the past few decades has turned out.

Citizen Nothing|12.12.08 @ 11:42AM|#

Exactly, SIV.
If the revolution comes, I fear it won't be the kind most of us would welcome.

Travis|12.12.08 @ 11:43AM|#

"If the revolution comes, I fear it won't be the kind most of us would welcome."

Viva la Che!

robc|12.12.08 @ 11:46AM|#

SIV,

If it happens they won't be motivated by principles of liberty.It will be more like the Bonus March.

So what? It still needs to be done.

Egosumabbas|12.12.08 @ 11:47AM|#

"If the revolution comes, I fear it won't be the kind most of us would welcome."

Guns, Gold, and MRE's my friend. Guns, Gold, and MRE's.

robc|12.12.08 @ 11:47AM|#

Im not calling for revolution, Im calling for using the threat of violence to keep politicians in line. When was the last time a US Rep went home and was tarred and feathered getting off the plane?

Citizen Nothing|12.12.08 @ 11:50AM|#

I still wonder about the "Gold" component of your equation, egosum.
The value of gold, like federal reserve notes, is largely in the mind of the beholder.

|12.12.08 @ 11:55AM|#

Of course, as the WSJ notes, most economists say that the Detroit automakers can't be allowed to fail, and that government must save them somehow. Of course, like the financial bailout they all disagree about how to do it, and don't like any options, including those presented, but all agree that "something must be done."

So I guess Bush is making the mistake of listening to the experts and the educated again, just like with the financial bailout, instead of small-town, uneducated populists like Joe the Plumber (who, gasp, like Mises and Palin, and hated McCain defending the financial bailout).

robc|12.12.08 @ 11:55AM|#

Tennessee's 2000/2002 income tax protest was (mostly) peaceful. The fact that they basicly surrounded the state capital for the whole session isnt a revolution.

SIV|12.12.08 @ 11:55AM|#

The value of gold, like federal reserve notes, is largely in the mind of the beholder.

If decreased demand for jewelry and industrial metals causes the price of gold to collapse I'll buy some. If nothing else I can always cast it into useful items like fishing sinkers and bullets.

Egosumabbas|12.12.08 @ 11:56AM|#

"Citizen Nothing | December 12, 2008, 11:50am | #

I still wonder about the "Gold" component of your equation, egosum.
The value of gold, like federal reserve notes, is largely in the mind of the beholder."

You severely underestimate the appeal of shiny objects in dark economic times, my friend. It's like moths to a flame.

|12.12.08 @ 11:57AM|#

The value of gold, like federal reserve notes, is largely in the mind of the beholder

Violence is the only true currency, my friends.

Egosumabbas|12.12.08 @ 11:58AM|#

Just look at ghetto culture and the appeal of bling, or the appeal of gold in China and India. It's only in affluent times that people are satisfied with abstractions such as credit cards and fiat money.

|12.12.08 @ 12:01PM|#

With this legislation, AMTRAK will be self-sufficient by 1992 1995 1998 ad infinitum.

Are perennially unprofitable routes discontinued? Are the employees wages and benefits below the national average? Will legislators even allow the termination of loser routes in their district/state?

No, no, and fuck no.

Good luck closing a widget plant in the appropriations committee chairman's district.

Egosumabbas|12.12.08 @ 12:11PM|#

I wonder if anybody else besides me made it a point to vacate any city larger than 500,000 people.

|12.12.08 @ 12:36PM|#

When was the last time a US Rep went home and was tarred and feathered getting off the plane?

When was the last time one was called a "loathsome, thieving, cocksucker" to his face?

Naga Sadow|12.12.08 @ 12:55PM|#

Egosumabbas,

You're all right.

Kolohe|12.12.08 @ 2:34PM|#

I've been hoarding all bottlecaps I can get my hands on.

perilisk|12.13.08 @ 11:22AM|#

"I've been hoarding all bottlecaps I can get my hands on."

They started using gold out west though.

Jeffersonianideal|12.16.08 @ 11:26AM|#

Ponzie, Ponzier, Ponziest

Mr. Madoff's $50 billion dollar investment fraud has been considered by business analysts to be one of the worst this country has seen. While Madoff's sinistrous plot is certainly monumental in terms of size and scope, there remains a government administered Ponzie type plan that Madoff could not imagine in his wildest dreams. In place since legislation made the New Deal plan law in 1935, Social Security has taken in over $10.7 trillion dollars since 1937 according to the Social Security Administration, making the wealth redistribution program the biggest Ponzie scheme ever.