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Palin and Pollan, Together at Last
Everywhere Sarah Palin goes, animals die.
At yesterday's turkey pardoning, Gov. Palin gave an interview in front of the killing cones, where Thanksgiving dinner meets its bloody, neck-snapping doom:
The folks at Huffington Post are upset about the callousness/obliviousness of it all, but here's what I say: If it's good enough for ethical-eating poster boy Michael Pollan, it's good enough for Sarah Palin, right? (To read about Pollan's stint at a plein-air abattoir, go here and search the book for the phrase "killing cones.") Pollan wants America to be in touch with where its food comes from. Well, thanks to Sarah Palin, cable news watchers will be a little more connected with the process that brings turkey to their plates this year. Good work, Sarah!
Palin flashback: Michael Pollan probably isn't on board with this one.
Read my review of Michael Pollan's Omnivore's Dilemma (with a killing cones reference!) here.
|11.21.08 @ 2:43PM|#
Ann Althouse nailed this one when she said "get over it you candy asses". Where do these people think their food comes from? The grocery store? My intense desire to make people like the ones who post at HUFFPO causes me to like Palin. She drives all the right people nuts for all the right reasons.
|11.21.08 @ 2:47PM|#
Yeah, I find myself liking her, too. She's certainly different for a politician. Whether she should enter national politics is another question, though I suspect she'd do better with some time to prepare for a campaign.
Naga Sadow|11.21.08 @ 2:48PM|#
Palin's a killing machine! She must be stopped! Oh . . . she's just hunting varmints? Nevermind.
The Angry Optimist|11.21.08 @ 2:51PM|#
If you have the time, energy and money to spend on caring about
whether turkeys get killed, maybe you should readjust your
priorities.
There are people all over the world barely surviving on
subsistence-level rations, and we have airheaded morons who have
the stones to twaddle on about fur coats and meat.
I have never understood how true, empathetic liberals can even
stand to have PETA-types in their tent. Most people in poor
villages in Africa would fucking kill you for being such a
self-righteous selfish prick by denying them a steak based on your
screwed-up "ethics".
Doug|11.21.08 @ 2:55PM|#
Let's be sure to remind the Huffers about that spared turkey when they start bitching about people who went hungry over the holiday.
taz|11.21.08 @ 2:57PM|#
If I remember correctly, I think that they use the Cones of
Death to cut the turkey's throat, and that little basin underneath
catches all of the blood that drains out.
I learned this from The Natural History of the Chicken, a
documentary about people who keep chickens as pets. It is both
incredibly entertaining and disturbing (most of the people are
completely nuts) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkxO91TLKVg
God, Sarah Palin is a shitty politician.
Naga Sadow|11.21.08 @ 2:59PM|#
Not funny Doug. I will go hungry over the holidays. Mainly cuz I volunteer to work every holiday except Cinco de Mayo(May 5th) to get away from my family. Individually we are fine, but put us together and the Seventh Layer of Hell is upon us.
|11.21.08 @ 3:01PM|#
I saw a deer literally torn in half (like, front half and back
half) on the road this morning. I have no idea what was able to do
that (trucks just turn them into a lump of meat).
It made me hungry thinking about venison. Turkeys getting their
heads chopped off? Child's play.
|11.21.08 @ 3:02PM|#
I don't have sound on the video. Is Sarah Palin for or against hunting from airplanes?
Just Plain Brian|11.21.08 @ 3:03PM|#
Turkeys getting their heads chopped off? Child's play.
This is why I don't like children, they're always chopping the
heads off of things.
Naga Sadow|11.21.08 @ 3:05PM|#
Episiarch,
A coked up mountain lion could do it. Check your stash, bro.
|11.21.08 @ 3:06PM|#
It is interesting how Palin is unbothered by it. It is like she
actually knows what goes on on a farm and expected it. If I didn't
know any better, I would think she is actually in touch with
reality. If she had been an out of touch politician who had never
seen anything outside of the four walls of her office, the whole
scene would have shocked her.
I don't think this hurts her one bit. Like the weenies on HUFFPO
would ever give her a chance anyway. I would also like to think
that most fair minded people would look at it and say "that is
where the turkeys we eat comes from what is the big deal?" To me
this shows a politician utterly at ease with herself. I don't think
Palin really cares whether the people on HUFFPO are shocked.
shecky|11.21.08 @ 3:08PM|#
Jezzus... you'd think they'd have come up with a quicker way to kill those things.
Man In Black|11.21.08 @ 3:08PM|#
I saw a deer literally torn in half (like, front half and
back half) on the road this morning. I have no idea what was able
to do that
Let's keep the speculation to a minimum, human.
|11.21.08 @ 3:09PM|#
A coked up mountain lion could do it. Check your stash,
bro.
Shit! I knew I shouldn't have left Mittens home without feeding
him!
|11.21.08 @ 3:10PM|#
I don't know. I can't really see Hillary Clinton giving a speech in front of a dumpster full of third-trimester abortion leftovers.
|11.21.08 @ 3:10PM|#
I am going to an event tonight and the menu includes Venison stew. God does bambi taste good. So does Babe for that matter.
|11.21.08 @ 3:11PM|#
watching that guy jerk up and down on that turkey while furtively looking at Sarah over his shoulder sends me into spasms. I can't stop watching it.
Naga Sadow|11.21.08 @ 3:15PM|#
Anyone seen the comments over a HuffingtonPost? They're going rabid over there!
|11.21.08 @ 3:17PM|#
There's something Pythonesque about it...or maybe Canadian
funny, did those two DJ's prank her again?
Is this the same farm where she pardoned the turkey?
"Hey, Sarah, come over here and stand in front of this bloody
killiing floor...it'll make for great press!"...
|11.21.08 @ 3:19PM|#
Naga,
The comments over there are pretty funny. I wonder how many of them
who are screaming about animal cruelty actually walk the walk and
are vegitarian? It is typical liberal elite bullshit. It is cruelty
to kill animals in a slaughterhouse and only an idiot scumbag would
ever set food in one. But damn this turkey sandwich is great.
Zeb|11.21.08 @ 3:19PM|#
I always found hedge trimming shears to be the tool to use when slaughtering turkeys. Nice clean cut, and you don't have to hold them down or pick them up or anything.
Warty|11.21.08 @ 3:20PM|#
You know, that seems like a pretty OK job. You get to be outside, you get to kill things, you get to ogle pretty ladies...what a life.
|11.21.08 @ 3:23PM|#
When I was a kid my grandparents had a big wheat farm in Kansas. They had a big chickenhouse for eggs and to have fresh chicken. My grandfather took me out one time when he was going to kill a chicken when I was about 6. The way you kill a chicked is cut its head off and then throw it in a big rubbermade trashcan until it stops flopping. His trick with his grandkids was to toss the chicken at you instead of the trashcan. I am telling you what, when you are six, that is pretty damn traumatic.
Naga Sadow|11.21.08 @ 3:23PM|#
Fax your resume, Warty. Live the dream!
John,
I was gonna post but noticed how many pages it has already filled
and decided against it. I don't need a ban from Huffington Post
either. I would be a laughingstock around here.
Old farm boy|11.21.08 @ 3:26PM|#
Take one (1) piece of tree stump..
Drive in two(2) large nails in a "V"...
Holding the bird by the legs, insert the neck in the "V" and
pull....
Whack the head off with a small axe.
Don't drop the bird until it quits moving.
Wonder where the saying "runs like a chicken with it's head cut
off" comes from???
Drop the bird to soon. The body WILL run!
Growing up on a farm? Priceless.
dhex|11.21.08 @ 3:27PM|#
jesus that comments thread is pure fucking madness.
and i'm in the "palin is an idiot" camp.
|11.21.08 @ 3:28PM|#
She does this this interview after the cheesy turkey-pardoning
ritual?
Smooth. No, wait: smoove.
|11.21.08 @ 3:29PM|#
They are saying on Fox News that Hillary has accepted President McHopey's invitation to be Secretary of State. I can't wait to see how the "no blood for oil" folks plan to explain this.
|11.21.08 @ 3:30PM|#
It is incredibly smooth Joe. She shows again her innate ability to cause liberals to spontaneiously go bizerk and make asses of themselves. It is amazing how she can do that.
Naga Sadow|11.21.08 @ 3:31PM|#
dhex,
No fucking joke! Did you see how long that fucking comments page is
too? Sad part is that it's just gearing up!
Just Plain Brian|11.21.08 @ 3:32PM|#
Palin and Pollan, Together at Last
"Palin, Polan, Bay of Pigs Invasion
We didn't start the fire...."
|11.21.08 @ 3:34PM|#
I have no problem with turkey killing (that leads to turkey
eatin'), but it seems like a dumb idea to accept an interview right
in front of turkeys being bled. I mean, cows have to get killed for
steaks, but I think it would be moronic for Biden to do an
interview on the killing floor of a slaughterhouse too.
Besides, a politician standing in front of a turkey being killed
just makes one think, "Fuck, they're killing the wrong turkey."
|11.21.08 @ 3:34PM|#
Of course, it's necessary for animals to reproduce for us to get
the meat we eat, but how many folks think she'd give an interview
in front of a turkey "breaking" and inseminating crew?
I mean, I think it'd be hilarious, but I'm not sure she'd do
it.
|11.21.08 @ 3:35PM|#
Of course it is, John. The Palin can do no wrong.
You know this was a brilliant move, because she did it.
That's why so many other politicians hold interviews in
slaughterhouses; because of the awesome optics.
Just Plain Brian|11.21.08 @ 3:37PM|#
Besides, a politician standing in front of a turkey being killed just makes one think, "Fuck, they're killing the wrong turkey."
We have a winner!
|11.21.08 @ 3:40PM|#
Why is it bad Joe? Are you a vegitarian? Do you object to
slaughter houses? Do you eat meat like some people smoke pot; in
private not wanting to think about where it came from? The only
people who don't like this are people like you that hate her
anyway. I love how it brings out so much hypocricy in people.
Anyone who is not a vegitarian and objects to the slautering of
animals and has a problem with this is a hypocrite. And spare me
the tisk tisking about what politicians should and should not do.
Should politicians never appear in front of any necessary but
distastful thing?
Also, how about that Hillary Clinton nomination? I recall you
saying that was a bad idea. Well, it looks like it is going to
happen. I look forward to you tearing right into Obama over it.
Come on Joe. This is your big chance. Tell us what an idiot Obama
is for nominating her.
arthur|11.21.08 @ 3:41PM|#
She was at the turkey farm to pardon a turkey. Perhaps on Christmas she'll issue pardons of deserving Alaskan convicts in front of the state's execution chamber, while it's in use.
|11.21.08 @ 3:45PM|#
from huffpos thread:
Do they make those funnel things in a size large?
thread winner over there...
|11.21.08 @ 3:50PM|#
"from huffpos thread:
Do they make those funnel things in a size large?
thread winner over there..."
That is funny. Of course if someone said that about the Chosen One,
HuffPO would be calling the secret Service.
|11.21.08 @ 3:51PM|#
John | November 21, 2008, 3:40pm | #
Why is it bad Joe?
It's really not something you can explain; you either get why it's
a bad idea for the governor to hold the happy-cheesy post turkey
pardon interview in an active slaughterhouse, or you don't. I'm
afraid you're just going to have to remain confused here.
I know, why doesn't she do her next press conference while she's
taking a shit? Clearly, only people with some sort of bizarre
hangup would have a problem with the idea of people taking a shit;
ergo, it's brilliant politics for her to hold her next press
availability in the stall of a hotel ladies room.
John, if Sarah Palin told you to eat a shit sandwich, not only
would you eat it, you would actually convince yourself you liked
it, and proclaim that anyone who says otherwise is just being
partisan. Yes, this was a brilliant move. I'm sure we'll be seeing
politicans' all across America holding interviews in
slaughterhouses now, proving how utterly in tune you are with
normal people.
|11.21.08 @ 3:53PM|#
Joe,
They only people who having a fit about it are jackasses like you
that hate her anyway. It is a turkey farm and that is what they do
at turkey farms. There is nothing obscene or private about
it.
Everyone else thinks it is funny as hell. Stop taking your anger
and bitterness over the Hillary nomination to State out on
Palin.
|11.21.08 @ 3:53PM|#
I know, why doesn't she do her next press conference while
she's taking a shit?
That would be beyond awesome. When politics resembles
Jackass, we all win.
Cool Cal|11.21.08 @ 3:54PM|#
This only illustrates the idiocy of the progressive horde. I
remember when Palin was first nominated, and oddly, only because I
have a morbid fascination with Alaskan politics, I had heard of
Palin before most people had. I remember thinking that there are so
many substantive criticisms you can make of Palin - many even
before the sordid stuff started coming out. But the first things
most liberals latched onto were things like, "She hunts!" "She
shoots animals!" and "She eats the meat of an animal that is not
sanctioned for consumption by mainstream society! (and yes, it's
okay when CANADIANS do it)"
Immediately I refused to listen when any liberal complained about
her actual shortcomings as a politician because they were indeed
coming from a deeper knee-jerk cultural reaction to her rural ways
- ways that by the way are almost indistinguishable from those of
certain in the Great White North, but as I mentioned before, when
non-Americans engage in said behavior it's cultural, not provincial
... unless you're a Japanese Dolphin fisherman, in which case
Hayden Panatiere will be on you like white on rice!
dhex|11.21.08 @ 3:55PM|#
It's really not something you can explain; you either get
why it's a bad idea for the governor to hold the happy-cheesy post
turkey pardon interview in an active slaughterhouse, or you
don't.
put me in the "don't" camp - it's folky, and more important for
this particular memeplex, sends the loyal opposition into
apocalyptic fits of insanity.
TEAM RED TEAM BLUE GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE
|11.21.08 @ 3:55PM|#
SNL doesn't have a hair on their ass if they don't bring back Tina Fey tomorrow night and have Amy Poehler dry hump a dead turkey in a cone while she is talking.
|11.21.08 @ 3:55PM|#
"The Angry Optimist | November 21, 2008, 2:51pm | #
If you have the time, energy and money to spend on caring about
whether turkeys get killed, maybe you should readjust your
priorities.
There are people all over the world barely surviving on
subsistence-level rations, and we have airheaded morons who have
the stones to twaddle on about fur coats and meat.
I have never understood how true, empathetic liberals can even
stand to have PETA-types in their tent. Most people in poor
villages in Africa would fucking kill you for being such a
self-righteous selfish prick by denying them a steak based on your
screwed-up "ethics"."
TAO, can you tell me how, exactly, caring about the suffering of
animals means that you don't care about the suffering of people?
Just so you know, the vast majority of the world's poorest people
are vegan, not out of choice but out of necessity, because animal
products require vastly more land and resources to procure than do
vegetable products. Providing large amounts of meat requires that
either large amounts of corn or other vegetable products are fed to
animals instead of people, increasing the price of food, or that
vast amounts of land, most of which can support much higher volume
agriculture, is used for grazing, again increasing the price of
food. And by the way, us vegans really aren't asking starving
villagers in Africa to give up steak when they can find it. We
aren't even asking YOU to give up steak if you want to have it. We
are deciding that we don't think it's worth it to subject another
living being to a life of torment culminating in a painful death so
that we can have a tasty morsel. And we think that maybe if a few
more people did similarly, Those poor African villagers, and those
poor Indian slum dwellers, and those poor Chinese factory workers
might be able to afford a diet beyond a little less rice or corn or
yams than it takes to subsist.
This doesn't mean that it's wrong to eat meat any more than it's
wrong to fly airplanes when people don't have access to cooking
fuel, but it does mean that going off on vegans for being uncaring
fucks is pretty stupid and oblivious. I'm not going to apologize to
anyone for thinking that it's wrong to force other conscious beings
to endure lives of pain and misery and acting on that.
As for Palin, I agree with pretty much everyone else that it's
totally stupid and hypocritical of people who eat turkey to be
shocked that she'd watch a turkey be killed. I'm no fan of Pollan,
but I do think that being willfully ignorant of what you're eating
and proud of it is obnoxious. At the same time, talking about how
brutal your campaign was while standing in front of an animal
that's about to get its throat slit shows slightly lacking
perspective.
Silentz|11.21.08 @ 3:56PM|#
How do they propose we kill turkeys for consumption? Starve them do death?
|11.21.08 @ 3:57PM|#
I think it's going to be a mailer, John.
A shot of Sarah Palin, with a turkey right in the middle of getting
its throat cut in the background. Maybe with some text about
slashing the state budget; then again, she might go for a
anti-envrionmental message about "chicken littles."
Totally, that's exactly what she'll do, because visuals of your
candidate standing in front of animals in the process of being
slaughtered is the type of thing every campaign manager dreams
about.
I'm just bein' mean ol' partisan joe here, saying it was dumb to do
the interview there. Really, it's going to be the next big thing in
political messaging. Next up will be Charles Grassley, talking
about entitlement reform as the Mexican hit cows with the stun gun.
Truly, a new dawn of political image-making has arrived, and I'm
just too out of touch to realize it.
|11.21.08 @ 3:59PM|#
Cool Cal,
I think you are exactly right. There are substantive complaints to
make about Palin. But those complaints are no more substantive than
the ones you can make about most politicians, especially ones who
have ran for VP. But liberals like Joe don't dislike Palin because
of those complaints. They hate Palin over culture and nothing more.
They are as a group the biggest bunch of hypocritical narrowminded
snobs on earth. Palin causes them to reflexively reveal all of
their most unpleasent traits.
|11.21.08 @ 3:59PM|#
dhex,
You realize that judging the political smarts of something by
whether it "throws the other team into fits of insanity" is pretty
much the definition of partisan blinkers, right?
|11.21.08 @ 4:01PM|#
John, you say yourself, proudly, that you like this and think it
was a great idea purely because of the reaction it produced in
people at the Huffington Post, and you're accusing other people of
basing their political opinions on culture war, rah rah team
crap?
Whatever.
|11.21.08 @ 4:02PM|#
Joe,
In case you missed it, the campaign ended the first Tuesday in
November. She is a governor and was pardoning a turkey. Who cares
what was in the background? Only bigoted twits like you who hate
her anyway care. As I said, she causes people like you to reveal
all of your most unpleasent traits. It is amazing the she is able
to do it, but she does.
SIV|11.21.08 @ 4:02PM|#
I feel as if I should have something to offer here as bloody
dead domesticated fowl are involved.......
How bout that Hope and Change of picking Geithner as Treasury
Secretary?
It will be like Bush is still President!
|11.21.08 @ 4:05PM|#
I find myself agreeing with joe here. It was pretty stupid to do the interview there - especially after pardoning the turkey. I am not squeamish at all, but the idea of pardoning a turkey and then giving an interview infront of them being killed just tickles that dark dark humor spot for me - while means it was probably a dumb political move.
|11.21.08 @ 4:05PM|#
The same people having fits about this video are the same ones that want pictures of our dead soldiers available on every media outlet that exists. Hypocritical assholes, put the cycle of life before human lifes.
|11.21.08 @ 4:06PM|#
Who cares what's in the background during the publicity shots
politicans' organize?
Ummmm...politicians? Their handlers? Their supporters?
What an idiotic question. Have you ever seen how much politicians
and campaigns spend on backdrops? Like the ones that Bush started
using, where the same phrase is printed over and over on some
colorful backdrop?
You're either completely ignorant of the entire field of political
media, or your still so giddy over The Palin that you've lost all
abiity to think straight.
Who cares what's in the background during a media event a
politician and her media people put together? Did you actually ask
that?
Hogan|11.21.08 @ 4:07PM|#
Last year I had the pleasure of a drive down a rural road during which the pickup in front of me stopped and the folks got out because there was a wild turkey in the right of way that they then clubbed to death with a stick. gobblegobblegobble!
|11.21.08 @ 4:08PM|#
But, no, it's not possible that it's bad optics to have your
candidate giving an interview and animals are being slaughtered,
because something something something about liberals.
Yeah, that's it. Keep 'em coming, John. I can't understand why some
Senate campaign hasn't snapped you up yet. You've got a real eye
for what sells.
The Angry Optimist|11.21.08 @ 4:08PM|#
Jorgen:
Not all land is interchangeable. You're assuming that if we stopped
using land and cattle-feed grade grain, that there would suddenly
be a glut of crops available for human consumption.
We are deciding that we don't think it's worth it to subject
another living being to a life of torment culminating in a painful
death so that we can have a tasty morsel.
Just ignore the millions of animals who get caught in combines
every year. You're aware of this, but I bet you don't grow your own
grain to make sure it does not happen, either.
Hogan|11.21.08 @ 4:10PM|#
Who cares what's in the background during a media event a
politician and her media people put together?
Seriously who does?
God that idiot Palin woman! If only they had brought out an
enormous backdrop for her to stand in front of that said "Family.
Tradition. Pardoning Turkeys." repeating diagonally. Doesn't she
know the game?!
The Angry Optimist|11.21.08 @ 4:18PM|#
There are plenty of things that you can spend time, energy and money on. If you spend it on PETA, you have a messed-up sense of what does and does not help humanity.
|11.21.08 @ 4:18PM|#
I will be brining my turkeys, as usual, a honey-bourbon brine
with cinnamon, cloves, black pepper, and sage leaves. After rinsing
them and salting the skin, I lift the skin away from the meat and
rub softened butter in between to promote the rendering of the fat
and to crisp the skin. The cavity of the birds will be stuffed with
slices of apples and onions. I am planning on three rounds of
hickory smoking, with a target time of two hours and internal temp
of 155. (Carry over to 160 under tented aluminum foil.)
In addition, we'll be serving sausage and apple stuffing, fresh
cranberry relish, cranberry-grappa jelly, whipped potatoes with
chipotle butter, sweet potato casserole with a coconut-pecan crust,
flash fried haricot vert, and a pineapple-habanero-lime dipping
sauce for the meat.
|11.21.08 @ 4:20PM|#
"The Angry Optimist | November 21, 2008, 4:08pm | #
Jorgen:
Not all land is interchangeable. You're assuming that if we stopped
using land and cattle-feed grade grain, that there would suddenly
be a glut of crops available for human consumption."
It's true that not all land is interchangeable, and it's true that
some dry grasslands that are suitable for grazing are not great for
growing wet crops. It's also true that a whole heck of a lot of
people could go off of meat entirely before we'd shift from grazing
to agriculture on any land that can provide more nutrition from
grazing. By the time that becomes an issue, if it does, we'll
probably have sufficiently strong drought resistant crop varieties
that fairly dry land can support more people with agriculture than
with grazing.
"We are deciding that we don't think it's worth it to subject
another living being to a life of torment culminating in a painful
death so that we can have a tasty morsel.
Just ignore the millions of animals who get caught in combines
every year. You're aware of this, but I bet you don't grow your own
grain to make sure it does not happen, either."
I'm perfectly aware of the millions of animals that get caught in
combines every year. I'm also perfectly aware of the millions of
animals who die due to habitat loss because of the farmland that
supports me and the space I take up. I'm not pure, and I think it's
silly that some vegans do think that they're pure. I am, however,
doing what makes sense for me in my life to avoid causing harm to
other sensing beings. And I do think that a vegan diet does less
harm than an animal diet, because those combines mow through field
mice and the like to feed cows and chickens corn as well. And
because I think that quickly killing an animal that has lived in a
way that it can act on its natural instincts is less harmful to
subjecting an animal to a highly constrained life where it can't
act on its instincts.
Other Matt|11.21.08 @ 4:21PM|#
SNL doesn't have a hair on their ass if they don't bring
back Tina Fey tomorrow night and have Amy Poehler dry hump a dead
turkey in a cone while she is talking.
God that would be hilarious.
|11.21.08 @ 4:21PM|#
It was stupid in that conventional wisdom sort of way, but I am eternally grateful for her doing it. This video is absolutely fucking classic. It's one for the annals of time.
MattXIV|11.21.08 @ 4:22PM|#
I'll point out that the local news cameraman was the one who
framed the shot and the shot could have easily been made without
including any turkey carnage by either a closer zoom, moving a bit
to the right, or having Palin move a bit to the left. She probably
assumed the cameraman had chosen a position where the killing cones
weren't in the shot, seeing as competent cameramen avoid including
distracting background activity while taping an interview when
possible.
That said, feel free to resume culture war jackassery at your
leasure.
The Angry Optimist|11.21.08 @ 4:25PM|#
And I do think that a vegan diet does less harm than an
animal diet
Less harm? Less harm to what?
And because I think that quickly killing an animal that has
lived in a way that it can act on its natural instincts is less
harmful to subjecting an animal to a highly constrained life where
it can't act on its instincts.
Dead is dead. Have you ever seen something come out of the combine
head? It doesn't look less "harmful" to me.
Just Plain Brian|11.21.08 @ 4:28PM|#
I'll point out that the local news cameraman was the one who framed the shot and the shot could have easily been made without including any turkey carnage by either a closer zoom, moving a bit to the right, or having Palin move a bit to the left.
Entirely correct.
Personally, as a former local news cameraman, that's the thing I
find most amusing about this.
|11.21.08 @ 4:28PM|#
It's about time you candy assed libruls learned where there food
came from! And don't think your tofu salad is any more ethical. The
put shit on them to make them grow, then pound the shit out of
them, then let them ferment until they small like shit, and finally
process them until they have the consistancy of shit. You are what
you eat!
p.s. One of the funniest sites of my childhood was watching my mom
chase after a headless chicken...
The Angry Optimist|11.21.08 @ 4:28PM|#
I do think it is funny that half of the hysteria of HuffPo's
comments are "WHY WON'T SHE GO AWAY??! WAAAA!"
She'll go away once Team Blue stops paying attention to her.
Twits.
|11.21.08 @ 4:32PM|#
The Angry Optimist | November 21, 2008, 4:25pm | #
"And I do think that a vegan diet does less harm than an animal
diet
Less harm? Less harm to what?"
Less harm to animals.
"And because I think that quickly killing an animal that has lived
in a way that it can act on its natural instincts is less harmful
to subjecting an animal to a highly constrained life where it can't
act on its instincts.
Dead is dead. Have you ever seen something come out of the combine
head? It doesn't look less "harmful" to me."
Would you rather live your entire life in a dark box with several
other people crammed tightly enough together so that only one of
you can move your arms at a time, only to be killed and eaten at
the end of it, or would you rather live out in the open where you
could be a person, with all of the pleasure and pain that entails,
only to be killed at the end by a giant blade. The reason people
talk about what a person's life is like after they die, rather than
just discussing whether their cause of death was a particularly
painful one, or just saying that it's sad that the person is dead,
is that what quality of life is available before death matters.
dhex|11.21.08 @ 4:33PM|#
You realize that judging the political smarts of something
by whether it "throws the other team into fits of insanity" is
pretty much the definition of partisan blinkers, right?
hence "more importantly, for this particular memeplex."
i have all the bases covered, broseph.
dhex|11.21.08 @ 4:34PM|#
"I will be brining my turkeys, as usual, a honey-bourbon brine
with cinnamon, cloves, black pepper, and sage leaves. "
that sounds fucking delicious!
The Angry Optimist|11.21.08 @ 4:35PM|#
Less harm to animals...but you're still not doing all you can
do.
Why not?
Humans are omnivores. Asking humans not to eat meat is like asking
them not to have sex for fun. It's in our genes to eat meat.
Jorgen, you can go on ahead and try to convince me with emotional
prayers to the life and well-being of cute forest critters. I still
maintain that if you spend time going after veal producers instead
of sending aid to Third-World countries, you care more about
animals than people.
Neu Mejican|11.21.08 @ 4:36PM|#
If you are not listening to her, the video is less funny.
If you don't note the visual context when the words "on the
chopping block" are said, you miss half the humor...classic.
It's like Andy Kaufman is organizing her press.
The Angry Optimist|11.21.08 @ 4:37PM|#
You realize that judging the political smarts of something
by whether it "throws the other team into fits of insanity" is
pretty much the definition of partisan blinkers, right?
On the other hand, given dhex's complete lack of partisan
blinkers, he could just be making fun of you for talking
about the Governor of Alaska....she lost, remember? Or are you
suffering from withdrawals?
Neu Mejican|11.21.08 @ 4:40PM|#
TAO,
I think you are off base here.
Compassion is not a zero-sum resource.
Jorgen can care about how animals are treated without diminishing
his care for the suffering of humans.
Now, time is a zero-sum resource, so if you want to criticize based
on the way people use their time, I guess that is fair, but if
there is a moral dimension to how we treat others, at least part of
that seems to adhere to the way we treat animals.
The concept of cruelty to animals is fairly wide-spread cross
culturally.
No?
|11.21.08 @ 4:41PM|#
dhex,
Brining is so easy. Even something as simple as 1/2 cup kosher salt
and a 1/2 cup brown sugar dissolved in a gallon of water for the
turkey to rest in the night before makes a huge difference to
moistness of the bird. My turkeys have converted at least 8 "I
don't like turkey" people. And don't over-cook them. All the bad
bacteria in a turkey dies at 145, and the flavor dies at 170. Most
tell you to take it to 180. I want turkey, not sand.
ellipsis|11.21.08 @ 4:42PM|#
Alaska is one of those states, like Wyoming and Idaho, where
this actually helps her image instead of hurting it. But it doesn't
make for a good national publicity. Which is why I think the best
she's ever going to be able to muster is a senator or
representative.
I lived in Idaho for a while, and I can tell you this is good
politics in that section of the world. (Think John times 100-200k.)
Which is why wild western states rarely produce national
figureheads.
|11.21.08 @ 4:45PM|#
"The Angry Optimist | November 21, 2008, 4:35pm | #
Less harm to animals...but you're still not doing all you can
do.
Why not?
Humans are omnivores. Asking humans not to eat meat is like asking
them not to have sex for fun. It's in our genes to eat meat.
Jorgen, you can go on ahead and try to convince me with emotional
prayers to the life and well-being of cute forest critters. I still
maintain that if you spend time going after veal producers instead
of sending aid to Third-World countries, you care more about
animals than people."
I don't do all I can because I put my well being above the well
being of others. It's the same reason that I pass homeless people
and don't buy them a sandwich.
I assume you also think that someone who spends their time fighting
for lower taxes instead of trying to feed starving children cares
more about rich people's taxes in the first world than they do
about starving children. Or someone who spends their time playing
baseball instead of educating third world farmers cares more about
baseball than they do about human welfare. Or that someone who
spends their time yelling at a vegan on the internet instead of
adopting foster kids cares more about being a dickhead than about
the well being of children. It doesn't actually take me any extra
time to be a vegan, and it saves me money, but if I want to spend
my time yelling at veal producers, it's my right to do so, and it
doesn't prove that I don't care about people any more than the fact
that I spend any time doing anything other than trying to make poor
people better off. Given that your handle is "The Angry Optimist"
rather than "Mother Theresa" or even "Norman Borlaug", I kind of
doubt that you spend all of your time in the way that would make
the world the absolute best place for others to live in.
Neu Mejican|11.21.08 @ 4:47PM|#
I'll point out that the local news cameraman was the one who
framed the shot and the shot could have easily been made without
including any turkey carnage by either a closer zoom, moving a bit
to the right, or having Palin move a bit to the left. She probably
assumed the cameraman had chosen a position where the killing cones
weren't in the shot, seeing as competent cameramen avoid including
distracting background activity while taping an interview when
possible.
According to the Fox news reports, the response from Palin's camp
informed them that the cameraman ask her if she was okay with the
killing cone being in the background and she said "fine."
Warty|11.21.08 @ 4:48PM|#
SugarFree, I'm gonna drop by your house for dinner. Is it OK if I fuck your wife?
Neu Mejican|11.21.08 @ 4:49PM|#
Jorgen,
Mother Theresa
Oh no.
Here we go.
MT is one of the favorite punching bags around here.
The Angry Optimist|11.21.08 @ 4:51PM|#
Jorgen - et tu? You presume a kind of moral superiority with
your veganism, and it's exceptionally irritating. If you do not
want to play the "I do more to cut down on 'harm' than you do"
game, next time do not come on and imply that meat-eaters are doing
all kinds of wanton and reckless "damage" to animals, because it is
complete and total question-begging.
if you want to reduce the "harm", go help poor people first. Don't
presume to be morally superior because you reduce the "harm" done
to animals.
And don't say you don't think that, because if you didn't think it
was the morally superior position to take, you wouldn't take
it.
Compassion is not a zero-sum resource.
I disagree. There absolutely are limits to human's emotional
resources.
Just Plain Brian|11.21.08 @ 4:52PM|#
According to the Fox news reports, the response from Palin's camp informed them that the cameraman ask her if she was okay with the killing cone being in the background and she said "fine."
Should have figured, although I'll bet he only asked because he was
afraid of losing his job if he didn't.
|11.21.08 @ 4:52PM|#
Neu Mejican,
yeah, I think Mother Theresa was a pretty worthless saver of the
human race, especially considering crap moves like opposing the
legalization of divorce in Ireland while cheering on Diana's
divorce. That said, I think she probably tried harder to help folks
out than does The Angry Optimist.
The Angry Optimist|11.21.08 @ 4:54PM|#
erm, I never said that it's good or bad to "help", just that I resent the implication that if you're doing MORE to reduce harm, then meat-eating must, ipso facto, be doing more harm.
|11.21.08 @ 4:55PM|#
SugarFree, I'm gonna drop by your house for dinner. Is it OK
if I fuck your wife?
I've finally figured out who you are. Frank Booth. It all
makes sense now.
Neu Mejican|11.21.08 @ 4:56PM|#
Compassion is not a zero-sum resource.
I disagree. There absolutely are limits to human's emotional
resources.
And what is the source of those limits?
I think there are limits to a human's attention, sure, but how does
my compassion for X (a momentary response while I am paying
attention to context X) diminish my ability to have compassion for
Y in the moment that I am paying attention to Y?
|11.21.08 @ 4:56PM|#
SugarFree, I'm gonna drop by your house for dinner. Is it OK
if I fuck your wife?
More the merrier, food-wise. But your going to have to the rest up
with her. And she's kind of mean. But she is, quite literally, a
naughty librarian, so anything's possible.
Just Plain Brian|11.21.08 @ 4:57PM|#
That said, I think she probably tried harder to help folks out than does The Angry Optimist.
That bitch got off on watching people suffer. Must be nice to have
your personal fetish make you look like a saint, but my money's
still on TAO being the better human being.
Jordan|11.21.08 @ 4:59PM|#
WTF. Are some of you under the impression that pardoning a turkey is meant to be a serious event or something? No wait, you're just hacks who have some bizarre visceral hatred for Sarah Palin.
|11.21.08 @ 5:03PM|#
"The Angry Optimist | November 21, 2008, 4:54pm | #
erm, I never said that it's good or bad to "help", just that I
resent the implication that if you're doing MORE to reduce harm,
then meat-eating must, ipso facto, be doing more harm."
Yes, I do think that meat eating does more harm. That is why I
avoid it. If you sincerely believe that meat eating does the same
amount of harm or less harm than does veganism, then we're both
making eating decisions based on the welfare of others (human and
animal), and that's great. I'm open to hearing you out about why
eating meat is less harmful. If you eat meat because it tastes good
and resent being reminded of ethical considerations that you don't
really have a refutation for, then you should really either own up
to what you're doing or at least stop shouting at others that they
are "such a self-righteous selfish prick by denying them a steak
based on your screwed-up "ethics"."
|11.21.08 @ 5:04PM|#
"That bitch got off on watching people suffer. Must be nice to
have your personal fetish make you look like a saint, but my
money's still on TAO being the better human being."
Yeah, Mother Theresa would probably be even more annoying of an
asshole on Hit and Run.
Just Plain Brian|11.21.08 @ 5:06PM|#
I think there are limits to a human's attention, sure, but how does my compassion for X (a momentary response while I am paying attention to context X) diminish my ability to have compassion for Y in the moment that I am paying attention to Y?
We've got 6 Billion people on earth, and counting, I don't think
it's that far-fetched an idea that there's a limit to how many of
those people the human mind can truly have compassion for, at least
on any kind of individual basis. Maybe in the abstract, or as a
general principle, but certainly not as individuals.
The Angry Optimist|11.21.08 @ 5:11PM|#
I'm open to hearing you out about why eating meat is less
harmful.
See, you're the one with the presumption about harm.
"Jorgen doesn't meat. Because meat = harm and harm = bad."
When you start talking about "harm", you've already assumed moral
superiority.
resent being reminded of ethical considerations that you don't
really have a refutation
A refutation? You have not even stated a rebuttable ethical
premise.
Just Plain Brian|11.21.08 @ 5:16PM|#
Yeah, Mother Theresa would probably be even more annoying of an asshole on Hit and Run
If your standard is who annoys you less, then I'm
afraid we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I think it's a safe bet that TAO has never said anything as evil as
this:
"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot,
to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being
much helped by the suffering of the poor people."
|11.21.08 @ 5:24PM|#
I see, TAO. Because I base my decisions around ethics, I'm
assuming ethical superiority. I assume this is why you beat women,
kill people in the streets, rape children and run people over with
your car on purpose, because you want to make sure that you aren't
assuming ethical superiority. Now it's all clear to me.
As for a rebuttable ethical premise, how about this:
1) It is wrong to cause suffering to beings capable of
suffering.
2) The process by which commercially available meat is produced
entails more suffering for beings capable of suffering than does
the process of producing nutritionally equivalent foods.
3) Paying someone else to do something is morally equivalent to
doing it yourself.
Therefore, eating a diet composed of foods that require less
suffering to produce than does commercially available meat is
ethically preferable than eating commercially available meat.
Similarly, eating food that was harvested without a mechanical
reaper is ethically superior to my diet. Refusing to eat foods that
are produced by burning down the rain forest is better than eating
them. Buying jewelry that is made in a lab or taken from mines that
don't use slave labor is better than buying diamonds and gold from
mines that do use slave labor. etc etc etc. And again, when you
start off by talking about the starving African farmers who would
kill me for being a self centered fuck who doesn't want them to eat
steak, you look kind of silly getting hot and bothered about me
presuming moral superiority.
Warty|11.21.08 @ 5:24PM|#
I've finally figured out who you are. Frank Booth. It all
makes sense now.
This explains my mysterious love for PBR.
That, and the fact that I'm in walking distance of a bar that has
$2 fill-any-sized-mug-with-PBR on Wednesdays.
|11.21.08 @ 5:25PM|#
The Angry Optimist -- I don't recall Jorgen saying anything that
suggested he felt "morally superior" to meat-eaters. In fact, he
said just the opposite -- that eating meat wasn't wrong, and that
anyone who acted shocked at where turkey meat comes from is
"willfully ignorant" and "obnoxious." It's you, TAO, who have
adopted an attitude that vegans or others who care about animal
suffering are somehow foolish or unserious.
I'm not a vegan or a vegetarian, but I don't understand the
mind-set that treats an animal's death as light-hearted
entertainment, or something to joke about.
All that being said, I'd gladly work on a Japanese dolphin fishing
boat if it would guarantee that Hayden Panetierre would notice
me.
|11.21.08 @ 5:27PM|#
Just Plain Brian:
I don't like Mother Theresa either. I'm sorry I ever mentioned her.
Next time I'll make a similar point with an uncontroversial friend
of humanity, like Chairman Mao, Che Guevara or Lyndon B.
Johnson.
Warty|11.21.08 @ 5:29PM|#
I've been banging a vegan chick lately. I make fun of her a lot for it, but I've found that I actually like nutritional yeast. That's about all I can contribute to this discussion.
|11.21.08 @ 5:30PM|#
And Potted Plant is right. I'm trying to do right when I can, as are many meat eaters. I do a lot of things that aren't the most ethical things I can do out of convenience, or fear, or desire for entertainment. I don't think I'm a bad person for spending money on myself when I could spend it on people who need it more, and I don't think that meat eaters are bad people because they choose to do something that I think is wrong. I do think that people who trash me for my choices are obnoxious.
Just Plain Brian|11.21.08 @ 5:33PM|#
I don't like Mother Theresa either. I'm sorry I ever mentioned her. Next time I'll make a similar point with an uncontroversial friend of humanity, like Chairman Mao, Che Guevara or Lyndon B. Johnson.
LOL, fair enough.
All that being said, I'd gladly work on a Japanese dolphin fishing boat if it would guarantee that Hayden Panetierre would notice me.
Now that's something we can probably all agree on!
|11.21.08 @ 5:37PM|#
"All that being said, I'd gladly work on a Japanese dolphin
fishing boat if it would guarantee that Hayden Panetierre would
notice me."
Ah, the lengths a man will go to just to get shot in the face by
Hayden Panetierre.
jtuf|11.21.08 @ 5:47PM|#
Primatologist Jane Goodall recently published a manifesto called "Harvest for Hope" in which she laments that "we have been hypnotized into believing that it is perfectly reasonable to walk into a supermarket and find any kind of food, from anywhere, anytime of the year." She would prefer us to "think about meals the way our ancestors did," (from the ethical-eating article)
Um, chimps are omnivores. My Animal Behavior professor showed us
video of them hunting monkeys. The chimps didn't use a gun or
killing cone to kill the monkeys quickly. Their teeth and bare
hands took longer, and I imagine the process was rather painful.
Does Goodall want us to bite the heads off street pigeons and serve
them up for Thanksgiving dinner?
|11.21.08 @ 5:58PM|#
"Um, chimps are omnivores. My Animal Behavior professor showed
us video of them hunting monkeys. The chimps didn't use a gun or
killing cone to kill the monkeys quickly. Their teeth and bare
hands took longer, and I imagine the process was rather painful.
Does Goodall want us to bite the heads off street pigeons and serve
them up for Thanksgiving dinner?"
I think it's pretty silly to look to animals with no sense of
morality to see what we ought to do. Chimps also eat eachother's
babies. Orangutan's regularly rape eachother. As for Goodall, I
will admit that we'd save some gasoline and the like if we didn't
eat strawberries in the winter, but I also really like strawberries
in the winter. And since I'm a vegan, I can be smug and self
righteous anyway.
Franklin Harris|11.21.08 @ 6:44PM|#
I didn't know there was an actual working model of the beheading machine in "Caligula." And it's used on turkeys. Interesting.
|11.21.08 @ 6:49PM|#
Joe,
I think everybody on here understands why a typical phony, scumbag
pol would have moved the post pardon interview off the farm. But
we're libertarians, and by definition don't care for typical phony
politician gamesmanship. Here we have a politician who is actually
familiar enough with a working farm that she's completely unfazed
when she sees a working farm at work. That's refreshing. It's
intellectually honest. And we'd be a lot better as a country if
more people appreciated it.
|11.21.08 @ 7:26PM|#
SugarFree | November 21, 2008, 4:18pm | #
I will be brining my turkeys, as usual, a honey-bourbon brine with
cinnamon, cloves, black pepper, and sage leaves. After rinsing them
and salting the skin, I lift the skin away from the meat and rub
softened butter in between to promote the rendering of the fat and
to crisp the skin. The cavity of the birds will be stuffed with
slices of apples and onions. I am planning on three rounds of
hickory smoking, with a target time of two hours and internal temp
of 155. (Carry over to 160 under tented aluminum foil.)
In addition, we'll be serving sausage and apple stuffing, fresh
cranberry relish, cranberry-grappa jelly, whipped potatoes with
chipotle butter, sweet potato casserole with a coconut-pecan crust,
flash fried haricot vert, and a pineapple-habanero-lime dipping
sauce for the meat.
Good Lord, that sounds good!
SIV|11.21.08 @ 7:44PM|#
I'd gladly work on a Japanese dolphin fishing boat for $5 more an hour, and cash per diem, and the experience.I like fishing.
The Angry Optimist|11.21.08 @ 8:32PM|#
I don't think that meat eaters are bad people because they
choose to do something that I think is wrong.
That does not make any sense. IF the reason that you choose to be a
vegan is because it is "wrong to cause suffering to sensing
creatures", THEN by definition you must impart some morality (or
lack thereof) onto the individual who does not make that
choice.
You cannot simultaneously claim you are doing X for moral reasons
and say that Y agent, who does not conform to your morality, is
still OK in doing so.
By saying "it is wrong to cause suffering to
beings who can suffer", you MUST be imparting "wrongness" onto
people who do cause suffering to beings that can suffer.
|11.21.08 @ 8:35PM|#
While it wasn't the brightest spot to do an interview, from an
"icky" point of view, she does come across fairly well.
If the Hufflepufflepost people had just shrugged, rolled their eyes
and ignored it, it probably would have been a net negative for
Palin. By going all hissy about it, they have made themselves
ridiculous, which probably makes it a net plus for Palin. Maybe the
Hufflepufflepost people should watch a few nature videos, like
this one, they might realize that mother nature is a
bitch.
Turkeys are incredibly stupid and nasty. If there is a creature
which deserves to be eaten, it is a
turkey.
|11.21.08 @ 9:33PM|#
Killing Cones would make a great title for a blues song: if I had listened to my second mind ...
Just Plain Brian|11.21.08 @ 9:47PM|#
Killing Cones would make a great title for a blues song
Either that, or a name for a death metal band:
"Off their new album 'Palinesque', here's Killing Cones with
"Pallin' around with terrorists"..."
transpose|11.22.08 @ 1:39AM|#
The partisanship over here and at HuffPo both make me ill.
Was it idiotic and contradictory for Palin to go through the
'turkey pardoning' ritual and then give an interview RIGHT IN FRONT
of the farmer slaughter a bunch of other turkeys?
Yes. Sorry folks.
Does it automatically mean she's a better or worse candidate?
Not really. Obviously her publicists and handlers should be doing a
better job - or doing their job at all, which they clearly weren't
if this went on air.
I think it's amusing that Palin missed the irony here, but in the
interest of full disclosure, I'll also say that I always thought
she was an inept and incompetent candidate that had no place on the
national scene. I also didn't drink the Obama Kool-Aid; I've been
singing his flaws and how I think he'll screw everyone over since
the beginning, so I'm not as interested at continued finger
pointing at Palin.
What I don't get is the repeated insistence on this comment thread
that the HuffPo people are all "sissies" for not being down with
the animal slaughter. Meat eaters that can't stand killing an
animal - much less watching it die - irritate me. Why would you
justify eating meat then? (Yes, I am a vegetarian.) But assuming
that all those that get their knickers in a twist over this most
recent Palin antic aren't vegetarians and are hypocrites is equally
inane. Just because you couldn't fathom being a vegetarian and
having those values doesn't mean that others do not and cannot live
by them.
|11.22.08 @ 1:52AM|#
joe --
Palin is currently the governor of Alaska. You know, a rural state
where a governor who is comfortable giving an interview in front of
a slaughterhouse gets her votes.
So, from a purely political perspective:
I suspect this might hurt her in some swing states if she plans to
run for president in 2012 -- though it might help in newly swing
states like North Carolina or Virginia with lots of rural voters --
but if she is eyeing a run for Congress from Alaska this might help
her.
Somehow, though, I doubt she is counting on getting a lot of votes
from partisan, very liberal Democrats from Massachusetts, or even
thinking that Mass is in play for Republicans.
Context.
jtuf|11.22.08 @ 6:16AM|#
Jorgen | November 21, 2008, 5:58pm | #
"Um, chimps are omnivores. My Animal Behavior professor showed us video of them hunting monkeys. The chimps didn't use a gun or killing cone to kill the monkeys quickly. Their teeth and bare hands took longer, and I imagine the process was rather painful. Does Goodall want us to bite the heads off street pigeons and serve them up for Thanksgiving dinner?"
I think it's pretty silly to look to animals with no sense of morality to see what we ought to do. Chimps also eat eachother's babies. Orangutan's regularly rape eachother. As for Goodall, I will admit that we'd save some gasoline and the like if we didn't eat strawberries in the winter, but I also really like strawberries in the winter. And since I'm a vegan, I can be smug and self righteous anyway.
I agree that basing morality on what animals do is foolish. That
was my point. Goodall sugested basing our eating choices on what
our ancestors did. I disagreed with her logic, because our
ancestors a million years ago probably did grusome stuff similar to
today's chimp behavior. If you choose a vegan/vegitarian/low meat
lifestyle to reduce your environmental impact or avoid causing pain
to animals, I respect that. I just don't have respect for food
advocates that pressure others to eat like them out of a false
belief about what is "natural" or "ancestral behavior".
Just Plain Brian|11.22.08 @ 7:31AM|#
Obviously her publicists and handlers should be doing a better job - or doing their job at all, which they clearly weren't if this went on air.
Don't be so sure, it seems like her publicists are doing a
fantastic job of keeping her in the public eye. Weeks after the
election there are still plenty of people talking about Sarah
Palin, and now the story is about this turkey thing instead of
whether she thinks Africa is a country.
If they had let her do this interview with a more appropriate
backdrop, none of us would be talking about it.
mmm trukey|11.22.08 @ 9:46AM|#
Growing up we killed about 150 chickens, 10-20 turkeys, and bought one cow worth of beef by walking up to the one we wanted and pointing to it while it mooed every year. If you can't kill it then you shouldn't be eating it.
|11.22.08 @ 10:39AM|#
prolefeed,
She's also a former Vice-Presidential candidate who has made no
secret of her interest in running for President of the United
States in four years, and who realizes, and glories in, the fact
that she can still command significant national media
attention.
Her problem is that she doesn't realize that there aren't enough of
the "Real Americans" living in "the pro-American parts of America"
- ie, the kind of people to whom it wouldn't even occur to that
slaughtering livestock on camera is a bad visual, particularly
after a turkey-pardoning event, to put up even Bidenesque
numbers.
|11.22.08 @ 10:44AM|#
Just Plain Brian,
No press is bad press? It's a theory.
But I'd point out that Palin managed to get some pretty bad press
during the campaign, and it didn't help things.
And the problem with this is that it feeds into the same clueless
image as "In what sense, Charlie?" and "All of them. Whatever they
put in front of me." She either let herself get pranked, or she
didn't realize the problem with having livestock killed in the
background during your interview.
BTW, her people came out today and said she didn't realize what was
going on. 1) So sorry for the "there's nothing wrong with this!"
crowd and 2) Another story about Sarah Palin being unaware of
things. Yay.
God, I hope they nominate that woman.
|11.22.08 @ 12:33PM|#
Check it out, I found the theme song for the Sarah Palin fan
club.
"Where There Was Me and You" from High School Musical
It's funny when you find yourself
Looking from the outside
I'm standing here but all I want
Is to be over there
Why did I let myself believe
Miracles could happen
Cause now I have to pretend
That I don't really care
I thought you were my fairytale
A dream when I'm not sleeping
A wish upon a star
Thats coming true
But everybody else could tell
That I confused my feelings with the truth
When there was me and you
I swore I knew the melody
That I heard you singing
And when you smiled
You made me feel
Like I could sing along
But then you went and changed the words
Now my heart is empty
I'm only left with used-to-be's
And once upon a song
Now I know your not a fairytale
And dreams were meant for sleeping
And wishes on a star
Just don't come true
Cause now even I can tell
That I confused my feelings with the truth
Cause I liked the view
When there was me and you
I can't believe that
I could be so blind
It's like you were floating
While I was falling
And I didn't mind
Cause I liked the view
Thought you felt it too
When there was me and you
ellipsis|11.22.08 @ 1:42PM|#
She's also a former Vice-Presidential candidate who has made no secret of her interest in running for President of the United States in four years...
Um, yeah. If she gets nominated, the Republican primary machine is
even more full of half-wits than I previously imagined. Which is
saying something.
|11.22.08 @ 4:01PM|#
The size of the half-wit contingent isn't the key factor, but whether the plutocrats choose to destroy her and lead them to some other candidate.
|11.22.08 @ 5:56PM|#
This woman continues to outrage me! She is an absolute jackass and her chances of winning any position higher than governor of alaska is slim to none. It is absolutely amazing that she is governor of anything. She needs to stop terrorizing this country and go back to mothering her children and her child's soon to be child!
|11.22.08 @ 6:09PM|#
joe sez It's really not something you can explain
That's just fucking beautiful.
Particularly when he goes on to try to 'splain it.
|11.22.08 @ 6:21PM|#
NM sez It's like Andy Kaufman is organizing her
press.
That's just fucking brilliant!
Oh, to SF and others on turkey-prep, have you ever tried covering
the bird with bacon in the roasting pan? Did that year before last
and it was fantastic.
|11.22.08 @ 6:22PM|#
I don't think I'm a bad person for spending money on myself
when I could spend it on people who need it more, and I don't think
that meat eaters are bad people because they choose to do something
that I think is wrong.
Meet jorgen, the anti-Rand.
Jeremiah |11.22.08 @ 7:40PM|#
Those "Fake Americans" in the "Anti-American portions of
America" are clear evidence of a decadent civilization plunging in
decline.
National Veterinary Care For Cats and Dogs Now!
zoltan|11.22.08 @ 9:21PM|#
Somehow, though, I doubt she is counting on getting a lot of
votes from partisan, very liberal Democrats from Massachusetts, or
even thinking that Mass is in play for Republicans.
Mass was in play for Romney at the state level.
Crow Eating Dumbass|11.23.08 @ 9:56AM|#
"John, if Sarah Palin told you to eat a shit sandwich, not only
would you eat it, you would actually convince yourself you liked
it, and proclaim that anyone who says otherwise is just being
partisan."
John, joe just ate your (non-vegan) lunch! Holy shit that was
good.
"Humans are omnivores. Asking humans not to eat meat is like asking
them not to have sex for fun. It's in our genes to eat meat.
Jorgen, you can go on ahead and try to convince me with emotional
prayers to the life and well-being of cute forest critters. I still
maintain that if you spend time going after veal producers instead
of sending aid to Third-World countries, you care more about
animals than people."
And TAO making a fool of himself too, how did I miss this thread!
Note the naturalistic fallacy (natural=moral) and the false dilemma
(can't work against veal producers AND for the poor in Africa too)
all in one brief post!
"Given that your handle is "The Angry Optimist" rather than "Mother
Theresa" or even "Norman Borlaug", I kind of doubt that you spend
all of your time in the way that would make the world the absolute
best place for others to live in."
Oh I love it! Jorgen calls TAO on his always annoying moral
superiority feint, and then as usual the less than introspective
TAO follows up by trying to cast his opponent as doint the
same:
"You presume a kind of moral superiority with your veganism, and
it's exceptionally irritating."
Man, I was on the wrong thread!
CED|11.23.08 @ 10:08AM|#
"If you eat meat because it tastes good and resent being
reminded of ethical considerations that you don't really have a
refutation for, then you should really either own up to what you're
doing or at least stop shouting at others that they are "such a
self-righteous selfish prick by denying them a steak based on your
screwed-up "ethics".""
That's that mattress man. As is his usual line TAO accuses Jorgen
of "not making an argument" ("You have not even stated a rebuttable
ethical premise") when his own entire array of comments has been
around one theme: "how dare you condemn my eating habits as wrong,
I am not a bad man!"
Jorgen then responded with about as plain an argument as you can
get, in syllogism form no less (@ 5:42)! And that I can see, TAO
never responds to it...Instead he whines about Jorgen imputing
moral stain on him and his self-righteous coat of many colors (@
8:32).
TAO, you're at times a bright young man with some admirable
libertarian leanings but with a right-wing asshole side that is
becoming stronger every day and making your posts become less and
less well reasoned. You should try sitting down and honestly trying
to see where people who have ideas different and strange from yours
come from instead of quickly determining "vegetarians are like PETA
and those people are stupid" or the like...
Mixed Medical Metaphor|11.23.08 @ 2:51PM|#
Animal-rightist insanity has metastasized in the center and left,infecting even the animal skin meat eaters.
economist|11.23.08 @ 5:04PM|#
Anyone notice the coffee cup with the blurred-out sleeve?
Could Sarah Palin be a hoity-toity STARBUCKS customer?
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