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Obama Runs Away for Office and Joins the Circus
A delightful display of cheerful cynicism and
despair from The Wall Street Journal's Kim Strassel, who
writes in the voice of a carnival barker touting the
Great Obama's magic act. Don't look too hard at the image at
right, or he'll hypnotize you.
Watch the Great Obama perform a feat never yet managed in all history. He will create that enormous new government health program, spend billions to transform our energy economy, provide financial assistance to former Soviet satellites, invest in infrastructure, increase education spending, provide job training assistance, and give 95% of Americans a tax (ahem) cut—all without raising the deficit a single penny! And he'll do it in the middle of a financial crisis. And with falling tax revenues! Voila!
And this:
For tonight's finale, the Great Obama will uphold America's "moral" obligation to "stop genocide" by abandoning Iraq! While teleported to the region, he will simultaneously convince Iranian leaders to peacefully abandon their nuclear pursuits (even as he does not sit down with them), fix Afghanistan with a strategy that does not resemble the Iraqi surge, and (drumroll!) pull Osama bin Laden out of his hat!
Shouldn't trust the man, though. Look at how much stuff he keeps in his pockets. Got to be a doubleheaded coin in there somewhere.
Via R. G.
Andy|10.10.08 @ 2:33PM|#
This is actually real stuff to hit Obama on.
Nah--not interested. Lets talk Ayers and hopefully Rev. Wright and
try to rile people up because he's black and has an Islamic
sounding middle name.
|10.10.08 @ 2:36PM|#
"This is actually real stuff to hit Obama on."
Well, McCain's policies aren't any more sensible.
Thus we keep hearing about the things you mention, and how Obama
supposedly can't talk without a teleprompter. (I really don't get
why that's such a powerful meme among McCain supporters. It's not
true, and it's lame. )
The Extispicator|10.10.08 @ 2:37PM|#
You've got it all wrong. Joe Biden said in the VP debate that, due to the economy and bailout, they may have to slow down on the aid to foreign governments. So, if you factor that in, the Great and Wonderful Ob can make the numbers work out.
TallDave|10.10.08 @ 2:40PM|#
100 economists wrote this letter:
Barack Obama argues that his proposals to raise tax rates and
halt international trade agreements would benefit the American
economy. They would do nothing of the sort. Economic analysis and
historical experience show that they would do the opposite. They
would reduce economic growth and decrease the number of jobs in
America. Moreover, with the credit crunch, the housing slump, and
high energy prices weakening the U.S. economy, his proposals run a
high risk of throwing the economy into a deep recession. It was
exactly such misguided tax hikes and protectionism, enacted when
the U.S. economy was weak in the early 1930s, that greatly
increased the severity of the Great Depression.
Apparently they haven't factored in the effect of Hope and Change
on GDP.
TallDave|10.10.08 @ 2:43PM|#
Of course, Obama probably doesn't actually care if the economy goes south as long as he can blame Republicans for it, as he did with the subprime mess. It's not like the media would call him on it.
Kolohe|10.10.08 @ 2:44PM|#
Damn, that mofo has some long fingers.
You know what they say about big hands?
Big gloves.
economist|10.10.08 @ 2:44PM|#
It's gonna take a lot of change to offset Obama's policies' effect on the GDP. Hopefully, it will at least be quarters.
|10.10.08 @ 2:45PM|#
Oh, look, the Democrat's economic policy is going to doom the
economy again.
So. Heard any of that music coming out of Seattle?
economist|10.10.08 @ 2:45PM|#
I like most of the article, except where they imply that leaving Iraq will result in genocide.
Kolohe|10.10.08 @ 2:47PM|#
A delightful display of cheerful cynicism and despair from
The Wall Street Journal's Kim Strassel
Which, you know, would have been great during the Great W's
performance. Esp when Hastert, Lott, and Delay were his assistants
and came on stage wearing pasties and g-strings.
MAX HATS|10.10.08 @ 2:48PM|#
Those "100 economists" are pulling a lot out of their 100 asses. Where does Obama propose across the board raises on taxes or "halting" international trade agreements? Complete BS.
BDB|10.10.08 @ 2:49PM|#
"So. Heard any of that music coming out of Seattle?"
I think I'll hook up the Super Nintendo and play Donkey Kong
Country.
economist|10.10.08 @ 2:49PM|#
Yeah, Nirvana's great. Too bad Obama's not going to be paired
with an opposition Congress. Then again, Bill Clinton wasn't facing
an opposition Congress his first two years either. Who knows, maybe
Obama and the Democrats will fuck up in a way that makes their
flaws clear and reminds Republicans of how well it worked when
their party actually some interest in reducing the size of
government.
Nah. We're all screwed.
|10.10.08 @ 2:49PM|#
When I tire of the elite, eastern establishment, mainstream media, I pick up the Wall Street Journal.
economist|10.10.08 @ 2:52PM|#
MAX HATS
Well, the tax increase is sort of implied by the pairing of 1. new
programs and 2.criticizing the Bush deficits (which I agree with
completely).
As for the halting of international trade agreements, that depends
on whether you believe Obama's "heated" public rhetoric on the
issue, or his private statements that he's just playing to the
ignorant yokel crowd.
|10.10.08 @ 2:52PM|#
So. Heard any of that music coming out of
Seattle?
If grunge comes back then it really is the end times.
Holy shit, he's not the Obamessiah...he's the anti-Obamessiah!
TallDave|10.10.08 @ 2:55PM|#
Why would Obama want the economy to do well?
http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2008/10/obama_vs_sp_500.php
Those "100 economists" are pulling a lot out of their 100
asses. Where does Obama propose across the board raises on taxes or
"halting" international trade agreements? Complete BS.
Sigh.
We are very concerned with Barack Obama's opposition to trade
agreements such as the pending one with Colombia, the new one with
Central America, or the established one with Canada and Mexico.
Exports from the United States to other countries create jobs for
Americans. Imports make goods available to Americans at lower
prices and are a particular benefit to families and individuals
with low incomes. International trade is also a powerful source of
strength in a weak economy. In the second quarter of this year, for
example, increased international trade did far more to stimulate
the U.S. economy than the federal government's "stimulus"
package.
Ironically, rather than supporting international trade, Barack
Obama is now proposing yet another so-called stimulus package,
which would do very little to grow the economy. And his proposal to
finance the package with higher taxes on oil would raise oil prices
directly and by reducing exploration and production.
We are equally concerned with his proposals to increase tax rates
on labor income and investment. His dividend and capital gains tax
increases would reduce investment and cut into the savings of
millions of Americans. His proposals to increase income and payroll
tax rates would discourage the formation and expansion of small
businesses and reduce employment and take-home pay, as would his
mandates on firms to provide expensive health insurance.
|10.10.08 @ 2:57PM|#
Episiarch, how would you grade Al Jourgensen, purely as a
guitarist?
I don't really think of him as a guitarist, because there's so much
mixing going on, kind of like KMFDM. So I guess I'd have to rate
him as "good enough to play Jesus Built My Hotrod, which is good
enough for me."
Barack Obama|10.10.08 @ 2:58PM|#
I will give tax breaks to 95% of Americans, even the 40% that
pay no taxes!
What do you mean, "welfare?" No, no, it's a tax cut.
I'm Barack Obama, and I approved this messiah. Er, massage.
Message! I meant message.
|10.10.08 @ 2:59PM|#
100 economists who define "halting trade agreements" as
"continuing with existing trade agreements," and "opposition to
trade agreements" as "support for trade agreements with
environmental and labor protections."
Republican hacks can be economists, too.
|10.10.08 @ 3:01PM|#
Barack Obama | October 10, 2008, 2:58pm | #
I will give tax breaks to 95% of Americans, even the 40% that pay
no taxes!
FICA taxes aren't taxes, because little people pay them.
ACORN|10.10.08 @ 3:02PM|#
Looks like law enforcement in 5 states is already onto our little operation.
BDB|10.10.08 @ 3:02PM|#
Look! I can find a bunch of economists that think the exact
opposite!
http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12342127
BDB|10.10.08 @ 3:02PM|#
Yes Dave, ACORN did it. And soon you will be in the Liberal Fascist Gulag they're currently constructing in Gary, Indiana.
Barack Obama|10.10.08 @ 3:03PM|#
Yeah, it's not like I said I would renege on NAFTA or anything!
Come on!
Oh, wait, I did.
Well... uh... HOPE AND CHANGE!!!
I'm Barack Obama, and I approved this message.
economist|10.10.08 @ 3:03PM|#
joe,
I personally think the economists should have avoided saying
anything about Obama and trade agreements, as his actual views are
unclear due to the discrepancy between his public and private
statements.
|10.10.08 @ 3:03PM|#
Guys, guys, guys,
He is not going to keep his campaign promises. He'll fuck things up
as much as he can get away with, but he's too smart a politician to
even attempt half the shit he's promised.
He's a lying pandering politician who has managed to
ensure* that even if Michigan is close (it won't be) I will not
vote for him.
* I have my pet issues. That pesky 1st amendment is one of
them.
|10.10.08 @ 3:04PM|#
ACORN | October 10, 2008, 3:02pm | #
Looks like law enforcement in 5 states is already onto our little
operation.
Yeah, including those "We flagged these registrations for possible
irregularities" notes on the forms you were required by law to turn
in will generally draw the attention of the most eagle-eyed
election registrars.
Several weeks later.
BDB|10.10.08 @ 3:04PM|#
"He is not going to keep his campaign promises. He'll fuck
things up as much as he can get away with, but he's too smart a
politician to even attempt half the shit he's promised.
"
J sub gets it.
|10.10.08 @ 3:04PM|#
"This is actually real stuff to hit Obama on."
It's tricky to accuse your opponent of lying and making empty
promises to play Santa Claus when you're wearing a red suit trimmed
with white fake fur and toting a bulging sack stuffed full of shiny
wrapped presents, each containing a shit sammitch, and a label on
each saying "Don't open (or smell) until after the election."
Barack Obama|10.10.08 @ 3:04PM|#
I publicly stated that I would renege on NAFTA, but then I assured the Canadians and Mexicans that it was just a joke for the foolish masses.
Warty|10.10.08 @ 3:04PM|#
Uncle Al is a surprisingly good guitarist, which is especially
apparent on the later albums.
By the way, The Last Sucker might be the best Ministry album of
all. Listen if you haven't.
the innominate one|10.10.08 @ 3:04PM|#
I like how TallDave's evidence for what Obama would do is to quote further from his 100 economists' claims of what Obama would do, rather than quoting from Obama's planned policies. Very convincing.
Nice Survey|10.10.08 @ 3:06PM|#
From BDB's link:
A total of 142 responded, of whom 46% identified themselves as
Democrats, 10% as Republicans
...
though the McCain campaign should be buoyed by the fact that
530 economists have signed a statement endorsing his
plans
Oops!
|10.10.08 @ 3:06PM|#
The root word of reneg is renegotiate.
Where on earth did you find 100 economists who don't relize that
trade deals often include environmental and labor
protections?
AEI?
BDB|10.10.08 @ 3:06PM|#
I just figured it out.
That guy screaming about international socialism and Rev. Wright
the other day at the WI Town Hall?
That was TallDave.
BDB|10.10.08 @ 3:07PM|#
No shit, TallDave. And how many Republicans were in the ones you
linked to? That was kind of the point.
But hey, what about Bill Ayers!? Remembre, Rick Davis said we don't
want to turn the election into a "CNBC news show".
|10.10.08 @ 3:07PM|#
Jourgensen + Biafra:
Nowadays, most of us need someone to run our personal life.
Someone to see that the plants are watered.
Someone to make sure the place is clean.
Someone to make sure dinner is waiting.
Someone to call for theater tickets.
Someone to make up those cheap excuses.
What we need is Lard!
Lard!
The answer.
The dancer.
The ointment.
The dream.
Absorb it.
Inflame it.
Respect it.
Molest it.
Lard!
Lard!
Elemenope|10.10.08 @ 3:07PM|#
I will give tax breaks to 95% of Americans, even the 40%
that pay no taxes! What do you mean, "welfare?" No, no, it's a tax
cut.
I didn't expect people would be making fun of Milton Friedman on
this thread.
Ah well.
|10.10.08 @ 3:07PM|#
BDB | October 10, 2008, 1:04pm | #
2008: ACORN DID IT!
BDB | October 10, 2008, 3:02pm | #
Yes Dave, ACORN did it.
somebody bump BDB, he's startin to skip.
|10.10.08 @ 3:08PM|#
Atabrat, I used to own that EP.
That's it! They're coming out now! Where are my pliers?!?
BDB|10.10.08 @ 3:09PM|#
Just trying to point out how much they sound like the lefty moonbats they made fun of four years ago (Diebold).
TallDave|10.10.08 @ 3:11PM|#
innominate,
I assumed the confusion was over what specific policies Obama has
advocated, not whether 100 economists (including 4 Nobel winners)
are misrepresented them. FFS, these are right on Obama's policy
page:
stand firm against agreements like the Central American Free
Trade Agreement
Obama and Biden believe that NAFTA and its potential were
oversold to the American people. They will work with the leaders of
Canada and Mexico to fix NAFTA so that it works for American
workers.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/
Elemenope|10.10.08 @ 3:11PM|#
The WSJ harping on Obama's economic plan reminds me of
a bible passage...
Matthew 7
3 Teh sawdust iz in ur brothrz i, makin u confused. Why u caer
so much when u gotz a board in ur i LOL?4 Why u sez "O hai takin
teh sawdust out of ur i"? U gotz board in ur i!5 Taek teh board out
of ur i furst dumass. Den taek teh dust out of ur brotherz i aftr
dat. Duh.
|10.10.08 @ 3:12PM|#
FICA taxes aren't taxes, because little people pay
them.
That's been the Democratic party line forever. If you want to call
them taxes now, go full honest and call them regressive
taxes.
And yeah, with the boomers coming up to the trough, lets cut us
some social security contributions taxes.
economist|10.10.08 @ 3:12PM|#
Elemenope,
I think he was making fun of the fact that Obama is suggesting that
he will be able to fund all his programs by raising taxes on the
top income bracket, and it won't cause any long-term reduction in
revenue.
TallDave|10.10.08 @ 3:12PM|#
Just trying to point out how much they sound like the lefty
moonbats they made fun of four years ago (Diebold).
How many Diebold employees arrested for vote fraud so far?
BDB|10.10.08 @ 3:12PM|#
Keep it up, TallDave. Bitch and moan, that really makes you guys look like winners.
FDR|10.10.08 @ 3:13PM|#
FICA taxes aren't taxes, because little people pay
them.
FICA taxes are NOT TAXES!!
They are a retirement savings system.
Come on lefties, let's keep our playbook straight.
TallDave|10.10.08 @ 3:15PM|#
BDB,
You brought up ACORN, not me. They're the ones being arrested for
vote fraud, not Diebold. I don't know if it's enough to swing the
election, but it's weird you would invoke illegal activity on your
side as some indicator that your side is more sane.
|10.10.08 @ 3:16PM|#
Dude, BDB...stop with the ACORN prognostications already. you say it every day, on every thread.
|10.10.08 @ 3:17PM|#
And this is why you have to be an idiot to believe anything
TallDave writes.
stand firm against agreements like the Central American Free
Trade Agreement
vs.
Obama and Biden will fight for a trade policy that opens up
foreign markets to support good American jobs. They will use trade
agreements to spread good labor and environmental standards around
the world and stand firm against agreements like the
Central American Free Trade Agreement that fail to live up to those
important benchmarks. Obama and Biden will also pressure
the World Trade Organization to enforce trade agreements and stop
countries from continuing unfair government subsidies to foreign
exporters and nontariff barriers on U.S. exports
|10.10.08 @ 3:20PM|#
J sub D,
If you want to call them taxes now, go full honest and call
them regressive taxes.
OK. Taxes taxes taxes taxes taxes taxes. Payroll taxes. FICA taxes.
That's all I've heard them called.
And regressive taxes, too. We should totally flatten that bitch
out. Who's with me?
*chirp chrip chirp*
|10.10.08 @ 3:22PM|#
They're the ones being arrested for vote fraud
No ACORN employee has ever been arrestes for vote fraud. Not one.
Ever. In the entire existence of the organization.
Not one single ACORN employee has ever been arrested for vtoe
fraud.
Did somebody say something about believing what TallDave
writes?
Sambo|10.10.08 @ 3:22PM|#
"Yeah, including those "We flagged these registrations for
possible irregularities" notes on the forms you were required by
law to turn in will generally draw the attention of the most
eagle-eyed election registrars."
ACORN is racist.
There. I said it. It had to be said.
They canvas the bus stops of downtown Minneapolis during rush hour.
All of them are black. All of them.
They only approach black folk. Black folk. Not Asians. Not white
people. Not Hispanics. Not Native Americans.
Black folk. Black folk.
Been doing it for years.
They also tell people who respond with "No thanks, I'm already
registered" that they should fill out the form anyway because their
current voter registration could have errors on it, which could
prevent them from voting.
Black folk.
|10.10.08 @ 3:23PM|#
CAFTA | October 10, 2008, 3:20pm | #
So.... Obama is for or against me?
I really didn't think it was that complicated.
See above.
|10.10.08 @ 3:24PM|#
Jourgenson + MacKaye:
(Pailhead = best Alien project ever)
Born as a blank page
We must pick and choose
Our destinations and
The paths we'll use
What shall we say is sacred
What will be abused
It's no wonder
The world is confused
Murder and weather
Is our only news
I will refuse!
Your offer is tempting
But it's not what it seems
You take advantage
Of everyone else's dreams
You create the perfect picture
By dressing up the scene
Trust our hopes and lives
To your death machines
Your point is not well taken
Because that's not what it means
I will refuse!
CAFTA|10.10.08 @ 3:25PM|#
I really didn't think it was that complicated.
Congrats, you just proved why no one should read anything you
write. Your expanded text didn't change the meaning one iota.
|10.10.08 @ 3:26PM|#
Well, ToolDave, if the expanded text didn't change the meaning, why did you feel the need to cut it?
the innominate one|10.10.08 @ 3:27PM|#
I've been approached by ACORN. I'm as caucasian as the next Irish-English-German descendant American with a bit of alleged mahogany and aboriginal American in the woodpile.
|10.10.08 @ 3:28PM|#
so, the answer is "yes" to "Is Obama against CAFTA?"
At least in its current form. Which kind of makes him an idiot.
|10.10.08 @ 3:29PM|#
How do we know, J sub, how do we know?
You list all of the lying, pandering politicians in one
column.
Then you list those who aren't in another.
Then do the math.
Bill Clinton was going to reform health care. He had Dem majorities
in both houses and HillaryCare went down in such flames it cost him
the congress for the next 6 years.
GWB was going to reform social security (we shall not speak of
humility and foreign policy). Never even got to a floor vote.
The crap on trade treaties is just blatant lying to please the
ignorant boobs who are convinced than Rani (or Pedro, or Jacques)
took their jobs. The "environmental and labor protections
guarantee" carrot is not worth the paper it will be printed
on.
Deep down his intelligent supporters know all of this. joe and
company are already working up excuses why such and such promises
were left on the campaign trail come 2009. The sub-prime meltdown
will of course suddenly change priorities on Nov. 5.
The recession (that's two successive quarters of negative growth)
just started and will more than likely still be going on in 2010.
The GOP will pick up seats in both houses as a result.
Things will suck but it's still better than McCain.
Sambo|10.10.08 @ 3:31PM|#
"Black folk.
Black folk?
Black folk!
Black folk?!?
Black folk!
Black folk!"
Whom am I supposed to believe? You, or my lying eyes and ears?
|10.10.08 @ 3:32PM|#
Barack Obama argues that his proposals to...halt international
trade agreements would benefit the American economy. ...It was
exactly such misguided tax hikes and protectionism, enacted when
the U.S. economy was weak in the early 1930s, that greatly
increased the severity of the Great Depression.
Assertions:
1. Barack Obama proposes to halt international trade
agreements.
Obama and Biden will fight for a trade policy that opens up
foreign markets to support good American jobs. They will use trade
agreements to spread good labor and environmental standards around
the world...Obama and Biden will also pressure the World Trade
Organization to enforce trade agreements...
Assertion 1 false.
2. Barack Obama and Joe Biden's trade proposals are "exactly such
protectionism" as that enacted at the beginning of the Great
Depression.
Obama and Biden will fight for a trade policy that opens up
foreign markets to support good American jobs. They will use trade
agreements to spread good labor and environmental standards around
the world...Obama and Biden will also pressure the World Trade
Organization to enforce trade agreements...
Assertion 2 false.
Sambo|10.10.08 @ 3:33PM|#
"Black folk!" As I told you onnce before, Joe, I'm old enough to have endured the Jim Crow south. I really see these ACORN canvasers as being no different than a coloreds only bathroom. When you could find one.
|10.10.08 @ 3:34PM|#
The Angry Optimist,
You may not come in my house wearing those muddy boots. I welcome
people into my house if they take off their muddy boots.
This is not remotely difficult. Playing dumb is an exercise in
wasting one's credibility.
Sambo|10.10.08 @ 3:35PM|#
"I've been approached by ACORN. I'm as caucasian as the next
Irish-English-German descendant"
That's not how it's being played in the battle ground state of
Minnesota.
|10.10.08 @ 3:37PM|#
J sub D,
Bill Clinton was going to reform health care. He had Dem
majorities in both houses and HillaryCare went down in such flames
it cost him the congress for the next 6 years.
GWB was going to reform social security (we shall not speak of
humility and foreign policy). Never even got to a floor
vote.
Both presidents worked to enact both of those proposals, as they
said they would on the campaign trail. (Actually, did Bush ever say
that on the campaign trail? As I remember it, he just sort of
sprung it on people).
That they weren't ultimately successful in getting their agendas
through, that they pushed for them even to their own political
detriment, makes exactly the opposite point you intended.
CAFTA|10.10.08 @ 3:38PM|#
if the expanded text didn't change the meaning, why did you
feel the need to cut it?
Obviously the relevant question was whether Obama was against
CAFTA, not his many wonderful justifications for being against
it.
|10.10.08 @ 3:38PM|#
I really see these ACORN canvasers as being no different
than a coloreds only bathroom.
You also call yourself "Sambo," so I'm not going stay awake at
night worrying about your judgement on racial issues.
CAFTA|10.10.08 @ 3:39PM|#
Playing dumb is an exercise in wasting one's
credibility.
Hahahahahahahahahahaha!
Did joe really just write that?
I, Obama, Lied about my ties t|10.10.08 @ 3:42PM|#
The Cleveland Leader reports this morning that Barack Obama is
lying about his involvement with the group ACORN, which recently
added Missouri to the list of states in which its activities are
under investigation. While Obama's site maintains that he never
trained ACORN activists -- whose training apparently encourages
them to play fast and loose with election laws -- Chicago ACORN
leader Toni Foulkes has thanked Obama for doing precisely
that:
Since then, we have invited Obama to our leadership training
sessions to run the session on power every year, and, as a result,
many of our newly developing leaders got to know him before he ever
ran for office. Thus it was natural for many of us to be active
volunteers in his first campaign for State Senate and then his
failed bid for U.S. Congress in 1996. By the time he ran for U.S.
Senate, we were old friends."
The Los Angeles Times has reported the same. Given all the
improprieties with which ACORN has been associated in the past, as
well as the accusations against it this year, it's easy to see why
Obama hopes the media will ignore this issue.
CAFTA|10.10.08 @ 3:42PM|#
Obama and Biden will fight for a trade policy that opens up
foreign markets to support good American jobs.
How, when we're cancelling trade agreement?Surely no one, not even
joe, is stupid to believe this will happen merely because Obama
says so. This is like promising to double someone's investment by
throwing their money in a fire.
By reneging on NAFTA and cancelling CAFTA, Obama will CLOSE foreign
markets, not open them.
These people really are drinking the Koolaid.
|10.10.08 @ 3:44PM|#
You realize that this:
Obama and Biden will fight for a trade policy that opens up
foreign markets to support good American jobs.
contradicts this:
They will use trade agreements to spread good labor and
environmental standards around the world
Right?
|10.10.08 @ 3:45PM|#
Obviously the relevant question was whether Obama was
against CAFTA,
Actually, the relevant question was whether he was against trade
agreements. The statement you felt the need to edit confirms that
he does support trade agreements, so you edited it to make it
appear that he does not.
You might as well argue that John McCain opposes funding the Iraq
War, because he has argued and voted against funding bills for the
Iraq War that include timelines for withdrawal.
An honest person would state the position thusly: Barack Obama
supports trade deals, and wants them to include labor and
environmental protections.
Smoot-Hawley|10.10.08 @ 3:45PM|#
By raising tariffs on foreign goods, we will protect American
jobs and open foreign markets!
Come on, it could work!
the innominate one|10.10.08 @ 3:46PM|#
Sambo | October 10, 2008, 3:35pm | #
"I've been approached by ACORN. I'm as caucasian as the next
Irish-English-German descendant"
That's not how it's being played in the battle ground state of
Minnesota.
Well, I'm merely in Florida, so I don't understand about close
elections and battleground states.
|10.10.08 @ 3:46PM|#
I've been approached by ACORN. I'm as caucasian as the next
Irish-English-German descendant
Why am I reminded of "some of my best friends are black"?
|10.10.08 @ 3:48PM|#
joe, If you call GWB and reforming social security an effort,
you're delusional. If I bat with a left handed stance and one arm
behind my back, can you really say I made an effort to get the base
hit?
Clintoin made one, count 'em, one effort to do
anything other than fiddle at the margins wwith health care. It was
a centerpiece of his campaign. Gays in the military? _ Don't ask,
don't tell. And the number of homosexual discharges rose throughout
his administration.
Lying pandering assholes both of them. Clinton was a better
executive by far. Still a lying pandering asshole.
|10.10.08 @ 3:49PM|#
How, when we're cancelling trade agreement?
Oh, are we cancelling trade agreements? Got a link?
Please, I'm sure we'd all love to see that. So far, all we've got
is They will use trade agreements to spread good labor and
environmental standards around the world and stand firm against
agreements like the Central American Free Trade Agreement that fail
to live up to those important benchmarks. Obama and Biden will also
pressure the World Trade Organization to enforce trade
agreements
So we're cancelling them, using them, and pressuring the WTO to
enforce them all at once? But only those last two made it into the
position paper. Odd, that.
By reneging on NAFTA and cancelling CAFTA Renegotiating
NAFTA to include environmental and labor conditions is not
renegging on it. Renegotiatring CAFTA to include those conditions
is not cancelling it.
CAFTA|10.10.08 @ 3:49PM|#
An honest person would state the position thusly: Barack
Obama supports trade deals, and wants them to include labor and
environmental protections.
In other words, he opposes existing trade deals such as CAFTA and
NAFTA, which do not have those protections, and he also opposes any
new deals which do not have those protections, and since (this may
shock you) other countries are not lining up to offer those
protections, his position amounts to opposing free trade.
CAFTA|10.10.08 @ 3:50PM|#
Good Lord, you really are this dumb, aren't you?
I give up, this is a waste of time.
Sambo|10.10.08 @ 3:51PM|#
"Well, I'm merely in Florida, so I don't understand about close
elections and battleground states."
I'm just relating what I have been witnessing for years.
|10.10.08 @ 3:51PM|#
RC Dean,
I realize that you believe that. I also realize that you believed
Clinton's tax plan would put us into a recession in the 1990s, and
that a liberal, democratic order would spontaneously arise in Iraq
in short order after the toppling of Saddam.
As for environmental and labor protections making it impossible to
open foreign markets, no, I don't realize that, because it's not,
y'know, true.
Kolohe|10.10.08 @ 3:52PM|#
|10.10.08 @ 3:52PM|#
Smoot-Hawley | October 10, 2008, 3:45pm | #
By raising tariffs on foreign goods, we will protect American jobs
and open foreign markets!
Come on, it could work!
Good thing no one is proposing to raise tarrifs on foreign goods.
That would just be nuts.
C'mon, hack, could you make a little bit of an effort to have some
knowledge of the field you're writing about?
|10.10.08 @ 3:56PM|#
J sub D,
joe, If you call GWB and reforming social security an effort,
you're delusional. If I bat with a left handed stance and one arm
behind my back, can you really say I made an effort to get the base
hit?
He campaigned for it for half a year, organized a national tour in
which he personally barnstormed thte country, and featured it as
the primary political push of his administration immediately upon
re-election.
Clintoin made one, count 'em, one effort to do anything other
than fiddle at the margins wwith health care. Like you said,
he lost Congress after that.
Both of them pushed quite hard for those proposals, spent a great
deal of their political capital. You can't say they didn't try,
just because they were beaten.
the innominate one|10.10.08 @ 3:57PM|#
RC Dean:
I don't know, is it because you're racist? I'm caucasian.
MAX HATS|10.10.08 @ 3:57PM|#
Good to know that the economic arguments against Obama have
about the same level of factual basis as the "ZOMG TERRORIST"
arguments.
Obama is against one particular trade agreement. Therefore he is in
favor of raising tariffs. Signed, 90 something republican hacks.
Uh, okay. Sure.
That is about as substantial as "Obama serves on the same
republican founded and funded education board as a 60's era radical
- therefore they are best friends forever."
I'm curious - is there a solid case against Obama that isn't
predicated on massive distortions?
|10.10.08 @ 4:01PM|#
In other words, he opposes existing trade deals such as
CAFTA and NAFTA, which do not have those protections
Actually, CAFTA, there were side agreements on labor and
environmental protections that got included into NAFTA. Why don't
you read about them on the NAFTA wikipedia page? Which would also
have the virtue of giving you a minimal base of understanding about
the facts involved, so you could have a statistically-significant
chance of holding your own in this argument.
Please, keep saying how stupid I am immediately after demonstrating
your ignorance.
, and he also opposes any new deals which do not have those
protections, and since (this may shock you) other countries are not
lining up to offer those protections, his position amounts to
opposing free trade. Since we have not had an administration
that tried to negotiate those elements into trade deals for the
better part of the last decade, it's tough to say whether they are
achievable in future deals or not. I know I'm certainly not going
to take the word of someone so passionately opposed to them when he
says they are impossible.
|10.10.08 @ 4:02PM|#
CAFTA | October 10, 2008, 3:50pm | #
Good Lord, you really are this dumb, aren't you?
I give up, this is a waste of time
I love the Breakfast Club, too!
"I don't wanna get into this with you, man."
"Why not?"
"Cuz I'd kill you. I'd kill you, and your fuckin' parents would sue
me, and it would be a big mess, and I just don't need that."
"Fuckin' faggot."
Kolohe|10.10.08 @ 4:05PM|#
By raising tariffs on foreign goods, we will protect
American jobs and open foreign markets!
Come on, it could work!
Good thing no one is proposing to raise tarrifs on foreign goods.
That would just be nuts.
Because raising environmental and labor standards is cost free. And
refusing to do business if they aren't elevated wouldn't reduce
trade. So I guess there's a difference.
Kolohe|10.10.08 @ 4:09PM|#
Face it joe, Obama is really bad on trade.
and to back to a drying well, a majority
economists who otherwise perfer him overall, and perfer most of
his individual policy positions over McCain's, don't like Obama's
postiion on trade.
|10.10.08 @ 4:19PM|#
Kolohe,
Because raising environmental and labor standards is cost
free.
Raising environmental and labor standards in exchange for reducing
and eliminating tarrifs is a net reducation in costs.
Would such a deal reduce those costs as much as some would like?
No, some people would never be satisfied. Nonetheless, it would not
be "increasing tarrifs," it would be reducing them.
|10.10.08 @ 4:21PM|#
Face it joe, Obama is really bad on trade.
I'm sure he is, by your standards. And by those the guy I just beat
up on, who needs to make up new handles on every thread.
|10.10.08 @ 4:26PM|#
Apparently, he is so "bad on trade" that to make the case to
libertarians that he is bad on trade, it is necessary to misstate
his actual positions.
"Barack Obama wants to pass trade deals, but include conditions on
labor and environmental standards!" doesn't cut it as a
denunciation, even around here, I guess.
ed|10.10.08 @ 4:30PM|#
100 economists wrote this letter
Well, 100 other economists wrote this one:
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah index.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah funding.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah rates.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah recovery.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah pot of gold.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah ponies.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah Obama is Lord.
Name Randomized for TallDave\'|10.10.08 @ 4:30PM|#
I'm mad, MAD, MAD ABOUT IT! I'm mad about INTERNATIONAL SOCIALISM! Promise me you will talk about Rev. Wright! And Ayers! I'm mad about...about hooligans! Yeah! Associations! Rezko!
|10.10.08 @ 4:39PM|#
I won't tell you his name. Let's call him T. Dave. No, wait, that's too obvious. Tall D.
BDB|10.10.08 @ 4:40PM|#
Yup. The attacks sure are working well. So much so that a
Republican Congressman is telling them to chill out and fears a
backlash.
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/ray.lahood.palin.2.837484.html
|10.10.08 @ 4:49PM|#
RE: @Joe 3:22
No ACORN employee has ever been arrestes for vote fraud. Not
one. Ever. In the entire existence of the organization.
Not one single ACORN employee has ever been arrested for vtoe
fraud.
Prosecutors in King and Pierce counties filed felony charges
Thursday against seven employees of ACORN, the Association of
Community Organizations for Reform Now, claiming they turned in
more than 1,800 phony voter-registration forms, including an
estimated 55 in Pierce County.
Elsewhere, four ACORN canvassers in Kansas City, Mo., have pleaded
guilty in federal court to felony voter-registration fraud.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003808207_votefraud27m.html
|10.10.08 @ 5:00PM|#
Clinton promised environmental and labor protections guarantees
for NAFTA.
From J sub D |
October 10, 2008, 3:29pm
The crap on trade treaties is just blatant lying to please the ignorant boobs who are convinced than Rani (or Pedro, or Jacques) took their jobs. The "environmental and labor protections guarantee" carrot is not worth the paper it will be printed on.
From Human Rights
Watch
Mexico, the United States, and Canada have ignored critically important labor rights obligations under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), Human Rights Watch said in a comprehensive new study released today.
and from The
CATO Institute
Although the treaty encourages high environmental standards and the harmonization of environmental statutes, the sovereign right of nations to set their own levels of environmental protection is repeatedly and explicitly reaffirmed in the treaty. The supranational bureaucracy established to oversee the enforcement of domestic environmental law is an intentionally cumbersome body whose mission is both tightly controlled and narrowly defined. And the environmental goals and objectives outlined in the treaty are just that--goals that for the most part few would argue with. The means of achieving those goals are left for each country to decide.
Like I said, campaign promises that will not be kept.
Kolohe|10.10.08 @ 5:13PM|#
Apparently, he is so "bad on trade" that to make the case to
libertarians that he is bad on trade, it is necessary to misstate
his actual positions.
from my link above:
On the issue of international trade, only 42 percent of our Democratic economists support Obama's plans, with 34 percent favoring McCain. Independents favored McCain on this question by 63 percent to 16 percent,
These people are not republican shills, joe.
|10.10.08 @ 5:26PM|#
I also realize that you believed Clinton's tax plan would
put us into a recession in the 1990s, and that a liberal,
democratic order would spontaneously arise in Iraq in short order
after the toppling of Saddam.
Ah, joe - still with the misrepresentations. I don't recall
believing either of those things.
As for environmental and labor protections making it impossible
to open foreign markets, no, I don't realize that, because it's
not, y'know, true.
Sure, joe, its theoretically possible, but in the real world,
especially the real world looking at a major economic contraction,
these are pretty much mutually exclusive goals.
You do realize that, don't you? That the rhetoric on free trade is
cancelled out by the rhetoric on "protections"?
MAX HATS|10.10.08 @ 5:39PM|#
Well, I certainly am convinced. Obama's reticence on a single
trade agreement for reasons that have clear precedence in American
trade negotiation history obviously means that he will create
tariffs.
To paraphrase Dark Helmet:
Liberals will win this election. Because conservatives are
dumb.
|10.10.08 @ 6:31PM|#
J sub D,
Clinton promised environmental and labor protections guarantees
for NAFTA.
And labor and environmental protection side-deals were eventually
negotiated and added to NAFTA. Sadly, they were weak and difficult
to enforce, leading to...
Mexico, the United States, and Canada have ignored critically
important labor rights obligations under the North American Free
Trade Agreement (NAFTA), Human Rights Watch said in a comprehensive
new study released today.
You can't very well ignore obligations if there aren't any.
And the environmental goals and objectives outlined in the
treaty are just that--goals that for the most part few would argue
with. The means of achieving those goals are left for each country
to decide. Which is why Barack Obama, and much of the modern
left, wants such conditions to be incorporated as binding elements
in future deals.
|10.10.08 @ 6:35PM|#
Sure, joe, its theoretically possible, but in the real
world, especially the real world looking at a major economic
contraction, these are pretty much mutually exclusive
goals.
Since the real world frowns on trade deals as a whole during major
economic contractions just as much as on increased labor and
environmental standards, that point would seem to cut both
ways.
You do realize that, don't you? That the rhetoric on free trade
is cancelled out by the rhetoric on "protections"? I believe
that you believe that. What does "the rhetoric is cancelled out"
mean, anyway? That you'd consider a deal that reduces tariffs and
quotas but formalizes labor and environmental standards a wash?
You're entitled to your opinion.
|10.10.08 @ 6:55PM|#
As a matter of fact, MayorOmalleySux, not only has no employee
of ACORN ever been arrested for voter fraud, but not a single
person in American history has ever been arrested for committing
voter fraud via a fraudulent registration.
Sure, people get in trouble for handing in phony registration
forms. ACORN has been defrauded several times by people like those
described in our link - but it doesn't lead to voter fraud. Trying
to cheat in an election through false registrations these days is
incredibly risky, and doesn't provide any bang for the buck.
The real action is in voter suppression and ballot fraud. That's
how you steal an election, not by submitting registrations with the
names of people who neither exist, nor show up to vote.
|10.10.08 @ 8:39PM|#
At least nine states have now launched criminal investigations of ACORN, which has endorsed Barack Obama, and which the Obama campaign has paid $800,000 to support its voter registration activities.
|10.10.08 @ 8:44PM|#
"No ACORN employee has ever been arrestes for vote fraud. Not
one. Ever. In the entire existence of the organization.
Not one single ACORN employee has ever been arrested for vtoe
fraud.
Prosecutors in King and Pierce counties filed felony charges
Thursday against seven employees of ACORN, the Association of
Community Organizations for Reform Now, claiming they turned in
more than 1,800 phony voter-registration forms, including an
estimated 55 in Pierce County.
Elsewhere, four ACORN canvassers in Kansas City, Mo., have pleaded
guilty in federal court to felony voter-registration fraud.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003808207_votefraud27m.html"
I have read this too but in Joe's mind, my reading and personal
experience are simply discounted because I'm just another stupid
nigger.
Syd|10.10.08 @ 10:46PM|#
Matilda: you and Joe are talking at cross-purposes. You are talking about voter registration fraud, not vote fraud. They're not the same thing.
|10.10.08 @ 10:49PM|#
As a matter of fact, MayorOmalleySux, not only has no
employee of ACORN ever been arrested for voter fraud, but not a
single person in American history has ever been arrested for
committing voter fraud via a fraudulent registration.
See, stuff like this just cries out for a link.
And you have to admire joe's hair-splitting of voter registration
fraud and vote fraud. That's campaign-level obfuscation.
ACORN has been defrauded several times by people like those
described in our link
See, ACORN's the victim here. The fact that this happens over and
over and over again in their campaigns just shows how big-hearted
and trusting they are.
C'mon, people. Obama used to work for them, and has given them
nearly a million dollars. Their association with the Dali Bama has
purified their hearts. Its impossible for them to do wrong!
db|10.11.08 @ 9:47AM|#
Obama - ObaWa - Obi Wan?
"This is not the socialist economic policy you think it is."
"You will bring Captain McCain and the Wookie Hunter to
me...now."
the innominate one|10.11.08 @ 4:37PM|#
for you,
db
RC, I bet every organization that pays people to collect signatures
and pays by the number of signatures gets defrauded.
The Wine Commonsewer|10.13.08 @ 1:44AM|#
Screw California. I live here. They can't even keep the freeways
maintained, much less build one of them. Ain't been a new freeway
built since Moonbeam was doing Ronstadt.
Damned if I'll vote for this steaming pile of you know what.
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