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Revolutionary Violence in a Wall Street Gym
Lehman Brothers chief Richard Fuld
was attacked on a Sunday shortly after it was announced that the banking giant was bankrupt.
Following rumours that the incident had occurred, Vicki Ward, a US journalist, said "two very senior sources - one incredibly senior source" had confirmed it to her. "He went to the gym after ... Lehman was announced as going under," she told CNBC. "He was on a treadmill with a heart monitor on. Someone was in the corner, pumping iron and he walked over and he knocked him out cold."
|10.8.08 @ 10:23AM|#
I reckon he should have gone to that California spa with the fuckwads from AIG.
|10.8.08 @ 10:23AM|#
I would like to add my voice to the chorus that says that we completely disapprove of this, no matter how much we may understand it.
|10.8.08 @ 10:29AM|#
I would like to add my voice to the chorus that says that we
completely disapprove of this, no matter how much we may understand
it.
Can I technically disapprove while loving it?
Caveman|10.8.08 @ 10:29AM|#
I applaud this action. If every CEO, CFO, COO, etc knew that suffering physical violence was the penalty for fucking up, there would be far fewer fuck ups.
Elemenope|10.8.08 @ 10:32AM|#
With Epi on this one.
"He shouldn't have done that...but you gotta know you had it
coming."
JMR|10.8.08 @ 10:38AM|#
Does anyone else think this is probably the worst consequence any of these overpaid CEOs will ever face? (Good thing they spent so much tax money on bullshit political cases fighting against ANY attempt at honesty in money!) And no, I don't think their salaries are set in a free marketplace, or I'd have no problems with what they're paid, but I'm old-fashioned. An excellent salary demands (gasp) excellence.
|10.8.08 @ 10:40AM|#
So, who's the guy who cold-cocked him, and is he available to be
the next treasury secretary?
-jcr
|10.8.08 @ 10:43AM|#
pffft No matter how much of a fuck up Richard Fuld is, he didn't
fuck me. My government fucked me.
Where does Henry Paulson work out?
robc|10.8.08 @ 10:45AM|#
What Im wondering, in the area of violence, would it be wrong to
tar and feather my Rep who flip flopped on the bailout bill?
When did doing that to government officials become
unacceptable?
|10.8.08 @ 10:45AM|#
Paulson? Work Out? Have you *seen* him?
I think the last time he worked out was well before the ceremonies
that turned him into a lich. Or a Skeletor equivalent...
[Not as bad as Chertoff, who *is* Skeletor, but...]
no hugs for thugs,
Shirley Knott
Steve|10.8.08 @ 10:47AM|#
If he has only been hit once since all of this went down I think he is still coming out ahead...
economist|10.8.08 @ 10:48AM|#
Given his complicity in the theft, I wouldn't be bothered if they had killed him and sold his organs on the black market.
economist|10.8.08 @ 10:49AM|#
Tarring and Feathering seems like a perfectly acceptable punishment for any pol who voted for the monstrosity.
Red Green|10.8.08 @ 10:51AM|#
Fuld did not"fuckup". Fuld did what the rest have done, and are doing.It's planned and provided for. Where's mine?
|10.8.08 @ 10:53AM|#
Fuld is no innocent ghandi here, he was involved in a slapfest a while back at some kiddie soccer game. He is a violent personality himself - live by jungle law...
|10.8.08 @ 10:55AM|#
You can punch me in the face as hard as you like for $480
million. Twice even.
You didn't specify which kind of dollar. Let's all start a Monopoly
money collection so that somebody gets to deck NutraSweet.
Twice.
|10.8.08 @ 11:01AM|#
By the way, $480 million in Monopoly money would take 15,852
sets to gather up. 15,852 sets would cost $221,769.
You can punch me in the face for $221,769 US.
|10.8.08 @ 11:01AM|#
Executive compensation is so out of whack. What are we paying for? Each time an industry is exposed--à la financial services--we learn that the executives were usually buffoons. I don't at all want the government involved in this process, but it would be nice if boards and shareholders would start drawing a line somewhere. . .anywhere. While they are paying the market rate, they aren't paying for value. I think there are plenty of idiots who can run your company into the ground for a mere $1 million/year, so why not simply refuse to pay these nutty compensation packages?
|10.8.08 @ 11:04AM|#
You can punch me in the face for $221,769 US.
Don't tempt me.
(starts reviewing bank accounts and investments)
economist|10.8.08 @ 11:07AM|#
PL,
Good point. I figure that executive compensation is one of the
things that can be most easily cut (in terms of how it would affect
the company's performance, not in terms of resistance to it) when
you need to cut costs. If you're John D. Rockefeller or Andrew
Carnegie, maybe you can justify your multimillion salary. That
said, it's shareholder business, not government business, so the
government should stay the hell out.
|10.8.08 @ 11:09AM|#
AJAJAJAJAJA!! Best news have heard all week!
(I enjoyed reading this and I'm not ashamed to admit it).
|10.8.08 @ 11:14AM|#
Hmm,
Fuld's compensation package was worth 2x10^15th Zimbabwean
dollars.
(I'm just a lowly English major. Is that the right notation for a 2
with 16 zeroes after it?)
|10.8.08 @ 11:15AM|#
economist,
Agreed. To clarify, I was talking more about salaried executive
help, not so much founders of businesses. Bill Gates should be able
to cash in on his success. But someone like, say, Barry Diller or
Kerry Killinger, well, I don't get it.
What's interesting about shareholders is that the law seems to
disfavor concerted actions by them to deal with things like
mismanagement and loony compensation packages. I'm not sure why
that is, to be honest.
kinnath|10.8.08 @ 11:15AM|#
but it would be nice if boards and shareholders would start
drawing a line somewhere. . .
Bingo, we have a winner.
The owners of these businesses are solely responsble for their
failure.
Some level of regulation is useful to ensure that the shareholder
have enough visibility to detect malfeasance on the part of the
management. But it is not the responsibility of government to
prevent management from running a business into the ground.
economist|10.8.08 @ 11:17AM|#
Shit, I completely forgot about Bill Gates.
Middle Age senility?
Must look up in the dictionary.
robc|10.8.08 @ 11:18AM|#
The biggest change I would like companies to make is to run
multiple candidates for board positions. If 8 are being elected,
give me 16 choices, even if all 16 are hand picked by the
board.
Or, have some sort of nominating process where shareholders can
nominate candidates for the board, with a low threshold of
nominating shares to be on the ballot, so that minority
shareholders can easily suggest candidates.
robc|10.8.08 @ 11:21AM|#
SugarFree,
Should have gone with my instinct.
Bah. You should have just derived it from first principles.
Ive always been bad at memorization. I dont know how many formuli I
derived from scratch during a test as an undergrad because I
couldnt remember the formula.
economist|10.8.08 @ 11:23AM|#
robc,
I used to the same thing, but I was always rather slow. I remember
barely passing Calc II (originally a 64, with a curve a 73) thanks
to that.
|10.8.08 @ 11:26AM|#
You guys remind me of all those mean AP Calc kids who used to
beat me up in high school.
Not OK!
|10.8.08 @ 11:27AM|#
I dont know how many formuli I derived from scratch during a
test as an undergrad because I couldnt remember the
formula
I did this too, especially on the math team, because you never knew
what the hell they were going to throw at you.
robc|10.8.08 @ 11:30AM|#
Epi,
What about 0^0. Isnt that 0? or undefined? Damn, stupid conflicting
math rules.
economist|10.8.08 @ 11:32AM|#
0^0 is an indeterminate form. There's some calculus method to determine the limit for functions that approach that, but I can't remember it. I think I still have my old calc book though...
economist|10.8.08 @ 11:33AM|#
Sugarfree,
Not me. My high school didn't offer AP calc. I took high school
calc as a senior and took calculus I again as a college
freshman.
robc|10.8.08 @ 11:34AM|#
economist,
L'hopital's rule, I think. I know that applies in the 0/0
situation.
You need functions though, not just a general statement.
Im having 20 year old calculus flashbacks now. Ugh.
|10.8.08 @ 11:34AM|#
What about 0^0. Isnt that 0? or undefined? Damn, stupid
conflicting math rules.
Ask NutraSweet. He has "instinct".
Hogan|10.8.08 @ 11:35AM|#
0^0 is undefined. (it's like it can be infinity or nothing or anything so they just call it undefined). it doesn't conflict with everything else to the zeroth being 1.
I\'m not saying he should have|10.8.08 @ 11:35AM|#
You know the worst thing about CEO's? CEO's always want credit for some shit they supposed to do. A CEO will brag about some shit a normal businessman just does. A CEO will say some shit like, "I take care of my company." You're supposed to, you dumb motherfucker! What kind of ignorant shit is that? "I ain't never been bankrupt!" What do you want, a cookie?! You're not supposed to be bankrupt, you low-expectation-having motherfucker!
|10.8.08 @ 11:39AM|#
Ask NutraSweet. He has "instinct".
Let see. Who here got laid in high school with a math formula and
who got laid with a faggy poem I wrote in ten minutes?
Faggy poem = FTW!
squarooticus|10.8.08 @ 11:39AM|#
0^0 is undefined.
I think it's better labelled "indeterminate", because the limit
exists along any path in the domain. E.g., lim x->0 x^0 = 1 but
lim y->0 0^y = 0.
economist|10.8.08 @ 11:40AM|#
robc,
No, I think L'Hopital's rule only applies for 0/0 and possibly
infinity over infinity. I don't know. Shows how much we mechanical
engineers actually used L'Hopital's rule (though many other things
in calculus have been critical)
Dread|10.8.08 @ 11:41AM|#
Can I technically disapprove while loving it?
Yes.
While I'm not in favor of physical violence, I think it is high
time we bring back public shame.
These twats (corporate and government) should be jeered, mocked,
and have rotten vegetables thrown at their cars.
economist|10.8.08 @ 11:42AM|#
SugarFree,
Neither. I got laid by...uh...shit. I was kind of wasted, so I
don't remember.
|10.8.08 @ 11:46AM|#
I had a friend on the football team who actively lobbied the school administration to hold a pep-rally for my math team.
Kreel Sarloo|10.8.08 @ 11:47AM|#
When did doing that to government officials become unacceptable?
The day that tar and feathers and horsewhipping went out of style
was a sad day indeed.
I could live with letting women wear shoes if we could bring them
back.
dhex|10.8.08 @ 11:51AM|#
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
what about people who are highly competent at violence?
|10.8.08 @ 11:51AM|#
Let see. Who here got laid in high school with a math
formula and who got laid with a faggy poem I wrote in ten
minutes?
I got laid by being me--cool and fun and good-looking.
You needed a poem.
|10.8.08 @ 11:52AM|#
Dollars? I want Euros or gold. Something stable.
Uh, "Euros" and "stable" are oxymoronic. Gold though, now that is
stable.
Mike Laursen|10.8.08 @ 11:52AM|#
Great. One of the guys who didn't take public bailout money gets punched.
|10.8.08 @ 11:55AM|#
I did what I could with what I have.
Also, math team? Really?
And not for the sheer nerdiness of the math team, but it is rather
my deep disappointment that you participated in after school
events. You were a joiner. [shudder]
KyleG|10.8.08 @ 11:56AM|#
It is getting to the point that these kinds of acts are becoming more acceptable. Not a good thing for those people.
|10.8.08 @ 12:00PM|#
Gold though, now that is stable.
Until it isn't. Over long time frames, gold is actually pretty
volatile.
|10.8.08 @ 12:01PM|#
One of the guys who didn't take public bailout money gets
punched.
It's not because he didn't *want* public money.
In a robust performance in front of the committee, Mr Fuld said
that he would wonder "until they put me in the ground" why the US
government had not rescued the 158-year-old firm.
|10.8.08 @ 12:01PM|#
Someone was in the corner, pumping iron and he walked over
and he knocked him out cold.
How, exactly, do we know it was a guy who punched him out?
He was on a treadmill with a heart monitor on.
Why would the CEO of Lehman's have a heart monitor, anyway?
dhex|10.8.08 @ 12:04PM|#
"Why would the CEO of Lehman's have a heart monitor,
anyway?"
he finds the flat line calming.
[rimshot]
|10.8.08 @ 12:04PM|#
And not for the sheer nerdiness of the math team, but it is
rather my deep disappointment that you participated in after school
events. You were a joiner
If you want to get accepted at Johns Hopkins, you have to have your
extracurriculars. Besides, I enjoyed the math team. We
never "practiced", were #1 in CT for small schools, and usually
took #1 in the New England's for small schools.
And you have to do sports, man. Gotta stay in shape.
|10.8.08 @ 12:05PM|#
I'd like to see a printout from the heart monitor: tick, tick, tick, tick, zing! tick....
Dread|10.8.08 @ 12:27PM|#
I've always preferred the pillory.
I'd be fine with that.
Put them all in Times Square or the Capitol mall.
|10.8.08 @ 12:32PM|#
He should have caved his head in with a dumbell. By the way, is it difficult to get into the congressional gym?
DADIODADDY|10.8.08 @ 12:42PM|#
violence...bailouts...math...higher math...currency
speculation...violence
it's true, violence begats violence. I just never knew how.
|10.8.08 @ 1:00PM|#
"economist" tells us that executive compensation is shareholder business, not government business. sorry buddy, that's the old paradigm. if we're gonna put government money into a business, then we acquire the right to determine executive compensation.
|10.8.08 @ 1:06PM|#
if we're gonna put government money into a business, then we
acquire the right to determine executive compensation.
Nice way to sum up the libertarian fear of universal health
care.
|10.8.08 @ 1:10PM|#
If we're going to nationalize the financial services industry,
we should impose the government "GS" graded pay scale. See what ol'
Hammer thinks of that.
I'd be fine with the pillory; especially if we can throw vegetables
(preferably canned) at the occupants.
|10.8.08 @ 1:11PM|#
PL and economist
IIANM one of the SEC rules of the 30s vested a lot more power in
the management of public companies. I'm not sure why, but it's
effect is to make takeovers much harder and more costly.
It came up a lot in Reason articles in the 80s during
takeover mania. The view then seemed to be that most of the "harm"
from takeovers would happen to the current officers not the
shareholders or some nebulous "public interest".
Not being very bright, I have forgotten the exact details. But I
think it may have been what allowed the AIG and WaMu management and
board to keep potential buyers with offers not consistent with the
officers interests away from the shareholders.
Anyone here have a clue?
|10.8.08 @ 1:13PM|#
OH, part of my point is that the same rule is what has allowed companies to raise executive compensation to levels that are somewhat hard to square with shareholders' interests.
|10.8.08 @ 1:17PM|#
Isaac,
Shareholder derivative actions rarely succeed, which makes me think
that you may be right. A lot of this is dependent on Delaware law,
too.
|10.8.08 @ 1:23PM|#
"You can punch me in the face as hard as you like for $480
million."
I believe that Fuld asserts that due to vagaries of the market it's
"only" 350 million now. So let's keep this in perspective. (The guy
has got balls but, lest we forget, he also has A LOT of money.)
|10.8.08 @ 1:30PM|#
This is so unfair.
Barney Frank MADE that guy leverage the hell out of Lehman to buy
MBSs. And then he touched him where his bathing suit goes.
|10.8.08 @ 1:37PM|#
robc | October 8, 2008, 11:21am | #
SugarFree,
Should have gone with my instinct.
Bah. You should have just derived it from first principles.
Ive always been bad at memorization. I dont know how many formuli I derived from scratch during a test as an undergrad because I couldnt remember the formula.
I was the same way. All you have to do is pay attention to units,
use what you know, and connect the dots to get what you need. I'm
glad I had a couple of good teachers that stressed the importance
of units.
I think it's better labelled "indeterminate", because the limit exists along any path in the domain. E.g., lim x->0 x^0 = 1 but lim y->0 0^y = 0.
I was always taught that x^y (where y=0) was one because you are
essentially saying "x times itself y=0 times", and a way to write
this is:
1*(x*x*x....*x)
And if x and y are both zero, then you don't multiply by zeros at
all, so you just have:
1
Though that's more of an intuitive approach, and taking the limit
is probably more technically accurate.
|10.8.08 @ 3:53PM|#
"two very senior sources - one incredibly senior source" had
confirmed it to her.
What's an "incredibly senior source"? Someone who's 300 years old
or something?
Cushy Oiler|10.8.08 @ 6:13PM|#
The 0^0 case is consistent with other exponentiation
rules.
x^0 = x^(1-1) = x/x
For x = 0, this is 0/0 which is indeterminate because the
definition of division is that z=x/y if and only if z*y=x, and this
is true for any z if x=0 and y=0.
For other x, x/x is always 1.
|10.8.08 @ 7:08PM|#
What's an "incredibly senior source"? Someone who's 300
years old or something?
Yeah, that seemed a bit illiterate. I have to agree -- I was kind
of wondering how old the incredibly old senior is, too, and
moreover what that really, I mean, like, totally, rilly, rilly old
person is doing at the gym.
Mike Laursen|10.9.08 @ 1:22AM|#
In a robust performance in front of the committee, Mr Fuld
said that he would wonder "until they put me in the ground" why the
US government had not rescued the 158-year-old firm.
It may have had something to do with Lehman executives endorsing
Obama, and Lehman employees contributing much more to Obama's
campaign than McCain's.
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