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The Friday Political Thread: EVERYBODY PANIC
Unconvincing Quote of the Week
"If I was president today, I would fire him." -
John McCain on SEC Chairman Chris Cox.
The Week in Brief
- You bought
AIG. How are you liking it so far?
- Short selling was banned.
- Neither candidate knew what to do about any of this.
- Sarah Palin
promised to reform Washington by doing things that Barack Obama
already did. (By the way, who thinks McCain would have chosen her
if he knew an economic crisis was coming down the pike?)
- Barack Obama wrestled back the
polling lead from McCain.
- Bob Barr won Texas.
Maybe.
- Joe Biden waved the flag and an
IRS form, at the same time!
Below the Fold
- Jonathan Chait
remembers when Dan Quale was a scrappy average American whom
those liberal elites just didn't understand. (He never hunted
moose, though.)
- Daniel Hopkins
does the work and buries the Bradley Effect.
- Phil Klein explains
why we should have seen the meltdown coming.
- Daniel McCarthy wants a
smarter future from the Ron Paul movement.
This week's Politics 'n' Prog was chosen for me. Shine on, you
delirious precious gem.
SIV|9.19.08 @ 6:04PM|#
Firing the SEC Chairman would have been better than what they have done(and have yet to do).
|9.19.08 @ 6:16PM|#
A lot of people opposed the bailout of Wall Street firms on the
grounds that it would create a moral hazard, encouraging people to
take greater risks in the future, knowing that the government might
bail out companies in similar situations.
Well, that ship has sailed. The government has already committed to
a couple of big bailouts. Darn those Wall Street elites, knowing
they can push around the government and get what they want! It
distorts the investment market!
So, if you're really serious about knocking down that moral hazard,
there's really only one option left:
Disgorgement.
People made these things happen. People took advantage of the
distorted climate. And some of those people made vast
fortunes.
So just how important is this issue of moral hazard?
SIV|9.19.08 @ 6:17PM|#
(By the way, who thinks McCain would have chosen her if he knew
an economic crisis was coming down the pike?)
I do
The "economic crisis" was widely predicted, the only question was
the timing.I'm sure Cindy McCain was aware of it and hedged
accordingly.
Who else should he have picked?
|9.19.08 @ 6:19PM|#
Do you think that Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi sleep with their eyes open, or do they wear blinders? I'd like to see a stare down between the two of them, although it could get boring after four hours.
tarran|9.19.08 @ 6:36PM|#
joe,
That's a very good question. i don't think there is any way to
practically force disgorgement. Who were the guys who bought A.I.G.
stock because they were taking advantage of the loose money? Who
were the guys buying A.I.G. stock because they thought the company
had a good business plan?
It's really hard to tell apart the people who were consciously and
willfully taking advantage of the loose money with a reckless
disregard for the future from the people who believed bad economic
theory or who followed the crowd sincerely. In other words mens
rea is rarely apparent.
Of course, there were people who did use the regulatory climate and
the easy money to enrich themselves while exposing their companies
to horrible liabilities. They did this knowingly and were
handsomely rewarded for it. These people are very well connected
politically, and I can't see any foreseeable government trying to
pry their ill gotten gains from their coffers.
Rather such a program would be used to persecute some group or
groups of politically weak scapegoats who would no doubt include
mainly people who peripherally profited from the chaos or were even
innocent of any wrongdoing at all.
I think that the most practical solution is to end the
interventions as quickly as possible. This is, of course, highly
impractical. What will happen is that people will clamor for more
intervention, which will create more problems, which will prompt
people to scream for more intervention, until the economy
collapses, or the president finds himself debating having the U.S.
Army shoot people.
Hopefully at that point they'll make the same decision Truman did
when he chose to roll back Roosevelt's policies rather than send
the U.S. army on sweeps through Michigan, confiscating livestock
and shooting any farmer who resisted.
|9.19.08 @ 6:45PM|#
I think, tarran, in the midst of a presidential election in this
climate, with the government having just signed onto a trillion $s
in bailouts, that your statement I can't see any foreseeable
government trying to pry their ill gotten gains from their
coffers. is not necessarily true.
I think it might be entirely possible for Congress to make
disgorgements from people who did use the regulatory climate
and the easy money to enrich themselves while exposing their
companies to horrible liabilities a condition of the bailout
packages.
Lefiti|9.19.08 @ 6:45PM|#
Daniel McCarthy wants a smarter future from the Ron Paul
movement.
Yeah, right. Wish in one hand, Daniel, and shit in the other. See
which one fills up.
Derrick|9.19.08 @ 6:52PM|#
Is everyone else as depressed over this financial meltdown (and the public cry for more regulation) as I am?
stephen the goldberger|9.19.08 @ 6:57PM|#
Is everyone else as depressed over this financial meltdown
(and the public cry for more regulation) as I am?
This financial meltdown and David Foster Wallace's suicide has
basically put me in a major funk all week. Weigel's snarky
"EVERYBODY PANIC" headline is pretty ridiculous given how serious
this shit really is.
|9.19.08 @ 7:05PM|#
That McCain quote is particularly unconvincing as the verb form should be "were," not "was."
SIV|9.19.08 @ 7:11PM|#
Was there even a mention of David Foster Wallace's suicide
here?
The credit meltdown cheered me up, then my hopes were dashed by the
proposed bailout.I can wait, it is going to get interesting
again.
GG|9.19.08 @ 7:20PM|#
- You bought AIG. How are you liking it so far?
How many shares did I get? And when will I receive my first
dividend check?
This week's Politics 'n' Prog was chosen for me. Shine on, you
delirious precious gem.
It's not Prog but CCR's Ramble
Tamble is also fitting.
They're selling independence,
Actors in the white house,
Acid indigestion,
Mortgage on my life,
Mortgage on my life.
Mike Laursen|9.19.08 @ 7:31PM|#
Is everyone else as depressed over this financial meltdown
(and the public cry for more regulation) as I am?
Is there a public cry for more regulation? Presidential candidates
and political pundits have made pretty predictable pronouncements,
but what does the person on the street think? Regular people I talk
to, even though most of them are liberal Democrats, seem to be
reacting with cynical resignation about government-corporate
cronyism, and grumbling about taxpayers paying for the bailouts,
rather than believing more regulation will solve the problem.
Doug|9.19.08 @ 7:39PM|#
I'm going to go home, grab a cold beer, and reflect on what very well may be the most entertaining week of my life. Then I'm going to wreak some anarchist havoc on the streets of Paradise City.
Orange Line Special|9.19.08 @ 7:39PM|#
1. The Obama campaign
released an extremely dishonest ad. See a list of those who
helped spread the lie, and also note that we're developing
something approaching a two-track PoliticalSystem: English and
Spanish.
2. Guess which country came in second behind Turkey in naming
the U.S. as responsible for 9/11, at 30%.
3. I discuss the latest venture from Reason's smiliest
buddy.
4. Always
look for the anti-prog label, and no beer play either.
|9.19.08 @ 7:45PM|#
You gotta admit, when Reason says they support free expression
they back it up.
Is there any other site on the web that would not
ban Lonewacko?
Kolohe|9.19.08 @ 7:50PM|#
from the Chait article:
"Today, Quayle is remembered as a disaster."
I support a passive voice jihad to go along with the subjunctive
crusade of the blond sword.
And really, disaster? Who won in '88?
We could do a lot worse than a President Quayle - and probably
will. (heck, we probably have.)
SIV|9.19.08 @ 7:54PM|#
Is there any other site on the web that would not ban
Lonewacko?
The ones he always links to.
I have to wash the thought of even clicking on a Natalie Merchant
link out of my eyes and ears.
Best pop song
ever?
I'd say best for 1977 anyways and that was a hell of a year.
GG|9.19.08 @ 7:56PM|#
Is there any other site on the web that would not ban
Lonewacko?
Michelle Malkin loves Lonewacko. She says he's "non-deranged."
tarran|9.19.08 @ 8:07PM|#
Joe,
So you think the people who were politically powerful enough to
convince politicians to bail them out are politically so weak that
they'll knuckle under when the government tries to confiscate their
wealth?
Wow... just wow...
alan|9.19.08 @ 8:16PM|#
- Jonathan Chait remembers when Dan Quale was a scrappy
average American whom those liberal elites just didn't understand.
(He never hunted moose, though.)
How does he remember that? He looks like he just made eagle
scout.
alan|9.19.08 @ 8:24PM|#
We could do a lot worse than a President Quayle - and
probably will. (heck, we probably have.)
I have no doubt that we have, and the sad thing about it is I voted
for him in 2000. I have a better excuse than most, that morning
before casting my ballot, I smoked a bowl of killer shit that my
ex-wife got while visiting family on the Res.
Fortunately for my conscious that is a true story. Word of advice
if you are voting this November, get high so you have an
excuse.
ktc2|9.19.08 @ 8:44PM|#
That's probably Richard Wright's most memorable song. The original album version is THE BEST. The gospel chick they got to do the vocals is just fucking awesome.
zoltan|9.19.08 @ 8:56PM|#
Weigel's snarky "EVERYBODY PANIC" headline is pretty
ridiculous given how serious this shit really is.
As someone who recently read Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy for
the first time, I thought it was a reference to "DON'T PANIC". And
so what if shit is serious? We don't need article after article of
how the apocalypse is going down without a little lightening
up.
Michelle Malkin loves Lonewacko. She says he's
"non-deranged."
How does this surprise anyone? The only difference between MM and
LW is that Malkin is not "lone".
EJM|9.19.08 @ 9:08PM|#
Best pop song ever?
Here's my nomination (at least, for the moment): original music
video; live version (from
2007); Goo
Goo Dolls cover; "Kids Incorporated"
performance.
economist|9.19.08 @ 9:15PM|#
The worst part about an Obama presidency is that people who
disagree with him can't go to Canada. At least of the left hates
McCain, they can move to Canada and live with a bunch of friendly
Canuck socialists.
Oh, wait, they don't want a bunch of freeloaders adding to their
tax burden?
Never mind.
|9.19.08 @ 10:19PM|#
"Was there even a mention of David Foster Wallace's suicide
here?"
Don't remember any here, but I heard an interview of him replayed
on NPR the day after he hung himself.
"Is there a public cry for more regulation?"
I think you are right a lot of people are grumbling about the
bailouts, but a lot are grumbling about those "Wall Street" types
causing all of this. You can bet if that wasn't in the air McCain
wouldn't be saying the stuff he is saying. And, grumbling about the
bailouts does not preclude wanting more regulation as many people
think the latter would maybe head off the former. The bail-outs are
seen as mopping up the mess of the de-regulation effort.
Mad Max|9.19.08 @ 10:20PM|#
economist,
According to some, Canada is
economically more free than the U.S..
Nice work, Republicans!
Isn't there something about this in the Book of Revelations?
Orange Line Special|9.19.08 @ 10:26PM|#
MichelleMalkin is one of the great commentators of our age. But you are a bunch of sockpuppets who are too stupid to even get a typepad account, so of course you wouldn't appreciate her commentary on IllegalImmigration.
Orange Line Special|9.19.08 @ 10:31PM|#
The first comment using "Orange Line Special" and this comment
are from me, the owner of the linked site.
The second comment, however, is not from me and is also clearly
libelous. Whoever did that should book some time with an
attorney.
|9.19.08 @ 11:50PM|#
Is everybody too in shock to post? Or is it okay that capitalism died today because the stock market went up?
Jennifer|9.19.08 @ 11:53PM|#
Repost, cause I'm a Threadkiller (channeling Shirley
Bassey)
Slightly OT: How psychic is Simon LeBon?
Meet El Presidente
copyright 1986, Taylor, Rhodes, LeBon
Yeah mmm yeah yeah (yeah) mmm yeah (yeah) mmm
Miss November Tuesday bend your rubber rules
Take your time but don't take off your high heeled shoes
She's in demand at dinnertime (she's in demand)
A pinup on a factory wall (pinup on the factory wall)
And when gentlemen retire (when men retire) guess who's in
control
She blew your money on taking that cruise if that isn't funny
Well watch out teacher
Ooo ooo, ooo ooo when the chambers empty she said
Ooo ooo, ooo ooo meet El Presidente
Dress in flimsy clothing use your lipstick line
To color fear and loathing with that pink disguise
You never refuse when she lies back put a stripe on the union the
star in the jack
She's on the case at dinnertime (at dinner time)
She's on the evening news (seen her on the evening news)
And if you dare step out of line (step out of line)
You're gonna be abused you may not like it you may not be
scared
But hell have no fury like a young girls ego
Ooo ooo, ooo ooo when the chambers empty she said
Ooo ooo, ooo ooo meet El Presidnete
Ooo ooo do do do do do do, ooo ooo do do do do do do
Ooo ooo do do do do do do
You might adopt and attitude (attitude)
Look on the morals side (looking on the morals side)
But when police are after you (after you) where's the best place to
hide
But this production they gave her a gun ain't no director so watch
out actors
Ooo ooo, ooo ooo when the chambers empty she said
Ooo ooo, ooo ooo meet El Presidente
Ooo ooo, ooo ooo when the chambers empty she said
Ooo ooo, ooo ooo meet El Presidente
P.S LMNOP, do you post on TWOP?
Elemenope|9.20.08 @ 1:46AM|#
LMNOP, do you post on TWOP?
I do not know this "TWOP". Is this Television Without
Pity? If it is, then "no".
I try to keep my Internet posting down to a manageable handful of
sites.
Elemenope|9.20.08 @ 1:47AM|#
The second comment, however, is not from me and is also
clearly libelous. Whoever did that should book some time with an
attorney.
How so?
|9.20.08 @ 1:48AM|#
So, if you're really serious about knocking down that moral
hazard, there's really only one option left:
Disgorgement. impeachment
Fixed.
Seriously, none of the crap the Bush administration has done
recently, with the acquiescence of the Democratic Congress, is
remotely close to an enumerated power.
Oh, wait, impeachment would take someone other than Democrats or
Republicans running Congress.
*cough cough Libertarians *
|9.20.08 @ 1:56AM|#
Oh, and pollster.com has the
electoral college essentially a dead heat, with the swing states
mostly clustered in an eight state swath running from Virginia and
Pennsylvania over to Minnesota.
Apparently, J sub D's gonna be the deciding vote. :o)
|9.20.08 @ 2:04AM|#
J sub D | September 19, 2008, 7:45pm | #
You gotta admit, when Reason says they support free expression they
back it up.
Is there any other site on the web that would not ban
Lonewacko?
I'm pretty sure Lonewacko hasn't banned himself from his own
site.
And I'm sure there's hundreds of thousands of sites where, while
they may or may not support free expression, they're too damn lazy
(or too damn desperate for someone -- anyone -- to comment) to slam
the ban hammer down.
And finally, Teh Intertubez being what it is, there are probably
lots of sites where he'd fit right in.
Jennifer|9.20.08 @ 2:08AM|#
Yes, I mean Television Without Pity, where someone is using the
name Elemmennope.
I didn't think "Project Runway" was your style. "Psych" or "Burn
Notice", on the other hand...;)
Elemenope|9.20.08 @ 2:20AM|#
I didn't think "Project Runway" was your style. "Psych" or
"Burn Notice", on the other hand...
You know, it's funny, because of the live-in S.O., I've caught many
shows by immersion and/or osmosis that I'd never otherwise touch
with a pole. Thus, I have an embarrassingly
more-than-working-knowledge of shows like American Idol,
Sex and the City, America's Next Top Model and,
yes, even Project Runway.
Actually, she doesn't get blamed for that last; my old roommate's
wife was a Textiles Marketing and Design major, and so she took a
professional curiosity to the show. It was unavoidable.
I think Psych is pleasantly OK, and Burn Notice
is fucking great.
Jennifer|9.20.08 @ 2:38AM|#
Exactly the opposite for me.
I lost track of "Burn Notice" this season, but I love "Psych".
"Project Runway" (and Bravo's other Wed. night competitions) is the
only one of those listed that I watch at all. :)
And I'm sure my husband would prefer not to know as much as he does
about "Grey's Anatomy".
lonewacko is a doody head!|9.20.08 @ 8:07AM|#
Maybe some of you should address LoneWacko's points instead of
piling on with the adolescent ad hominems.
Or at least come up with better ad hominems.
Me, I find it somewhat disturbing and not insignificant that 30% of
Mexicans think the U.S. government is behind 9/11.
LoneWackMOOSE|9.20.08 @ 8:52AM|#
Me, I find it somewhat disturbing and not insignificant that 30% of Mexicans think the U.S. government is behind 9/11.
theyTookOurParanoia!!!!!
robc|9.20.08 @ 9:36AM|#
I cant address LW's points because I dont see them. Are there people here who havent filtered him out? Why?
|9.20.08 @ 9:38AM|#
Is there any other site on the web that would not ban Lonewacko?
The ones he always links to.
SIV, you click on his links? I just stab myself in the thigh with a
pencil. It's less painful and over quicker.
robc|9.20.08 @ 9:40AM|#
As a general anti-government supported monopoly postition, I bet
if there were competing electric companies in Louisville that one
of them would have got me power by now in order to get a contract
with me. Im at 6 freakin days and no end in sight. Im in my office
watching Ryder Cup this morning.
Nice putt Kenny!!!!
I guess I could have walked to the course and scalped a ticket.
SIV|9.20.08 @ 9:52AM|#
Jsub,
I don't click.I hover and look at the url. Nearly every one is a
self link.
|9.20.08 @ 9:53AM|#
Me, I find it somewhat disturbing and not insignificant that
30% of Mexicans think the U.S. government is behind
9/11.
And the percentage of native born citizens who believe that is
???
Google to the rescue.
From two years ago -
9/11
conspiracy theorists multiply
A recent Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll of 1,010 Americans found that 36 percent suspect the U.S. government promoted the attacks or intentionally sat on its hands. Sixteen percent believe explosives brought down the towers. Twelve percent believe a cruise missile hit the Pentagon.
It appears that Mexicans are slightly less deranged than Americans.
A good point for incresing immigration from out neighbor to the
south, I'd say.
|9.20.08 @ 9:56AM|#
SIV,
Nice to hear. I had hoped your weren't foolish enough to give him
any traffic.
|9.20.08 @ 10:55AM|#
"rather than believing more regulation will solve the
problem."
Then they probably don't know about the deregulation that caused
the problem.
Come on, Reasonites! Wall Street acted entirely predictably. The
acted like stupid greedy humans. That's why we need regulation -
people are fucking stupid.
You call it deregulation. I call it a pre-bailout. Because that's
what it always is - the prelude to a big fucking bailout on the
public dime.
|9.20.08 @ 11:14AM|#
"Is there a public cry for more regulation?"
The WSJ is proclaiming the death of free-market capitalism today,
so, yeah, it kind of looks like it to me.
"You call it deregulation. I call it a pre-bailout."
Maybe true, but it didn't have to be that way. In retrospect, with
every deregulation should come a disclaimer: IN CASE THIS WASN'T
CLEAR, YOU PEOPLE ARE ON YOUR OWN NOW. It's like legalizing crack
and then paying people unemployment when they lose their jobs for
crack-induced shenanigans.
|9.20.08 @ 11:36AM|#
"In retrospect, with every deregulation should come a
disclaimer: IN CASE THIS WASN'T CLEAR, YOU PEOPLE ARE ON YOUR OWN
NOW. "
That's frankly unrealistic. Like, Mao's "Great Leap Forward"-class
unrealistic.
You seriously expect the rest of us to just bend over and get
reamed when the financial wizards' orgy collapses? That's going to
happen whether they get bailed out or not.
Bailouts will happen when the failures are big enough. That's why
the people who argue for deregulation in the first place spend so
much time talking about the wisdom and prudence of the great minds
of business. They want to sucker everyone into believing that
deregulation is safe and they can be trusted.
|9.20.08 @ 12:28PM|#
GG: Thanks a lot for the link, damn you! ;-}
Reports that BHO has his minions going door to door to "get up in
your neighbors face".
I usually make a human chalk outline on my front porch every friday
evening (along with copious amounts of fake blood) to deter the
Jehovah-tards. They can't seem to resist ringing my doorbell early
Saturday morning to tell me the "good news".
I guess now I'll have to add a few 2A-affirming bullet holes in my
front door to help deter BHO's motherfuckers.
Now if I can just get enough garlic bulbs together, I will be able
to deflect any deranged GOP-tards as well.
Please archive this for my upcoming trial, as proof that I made an
attempt to avoid conflict.
tarran|9.20.08 @ 12:33PM|#
Jon H, you ignorant slut. :)
How the common man would have been been screwed by a lack of
bailout?
Far less than they are by the bailout.
The crisis was caused by government regulation intended to
get more people to "own" homes and the Federal Reserve printing
lots of money to pay for George Bush's wars and expansion of the
welfare state.
The problem was that as the newly printed money flowed out into the
economy, prices began to rise. So long as the rising prices were
limited to homes (because the guys with the newly printed money
were loaning them on extremely generous terms to anybody who could
grip a pen and drag it accross a contract) everyone was happy. they
reasoned that if someone was saddled with a loan they couldn't pay,
they would sell the house for far more money than they paid for it
and the principal would be apid off.
Then the rising prices startign showing up in other sectors.
Bernanke decided to stop printing money and soem even argue that he
effectively removed some money from the economy.
Now there wasn't newly printed money available to make loans
anymore. And people stopped bidding up the house prices. In fact
they were only willign to pay what they could borrow, wich was
increasingly less.
Many investment houses wrongly concluded that the rise in prices
would go on forever. Of course, businessmen are human. They were
being encouraged by govenrment officials to make the loans. It was
one step removed from coutnerfeiting in profitability. And it was
legal!
They also made a disastrous calculation, confusing risk with
volatility. Of course, a few voices were crying out in the
wilderness that this was not the case, but egged on by shareholder
pressure, managers who listened to those voices were systematically
replaced. After all, they were walking away from huge
profits.
This wouldn't be such a problem if you had a few 10,000 firms
comprising the U.S. banking and capital indsutry. Unfortuantely,
the financial indsutry is dominated by a few players, why? Of well,
that's thanks to the U.S> govenrment tax policy which taxes
dividends viciously and capital gains at a much lower rate. Guess
what? It means that a company that is foolish enough to return
profits to investors (and thus increase their tax liability) are
eschewed in favor of companies that keep the dollar and make their
business larger. The only hope the share holder has of seeing a
return on his investment, then, is to sell the stock for more than
he purchased it. So rather than an investment generating revenue
due to the businesses soundness, the stock market is converted into
a quasi Ponzi scheme.
If these businesses fail, the factories continue to run. The houses
won't fall down. The crops will continue to grow in the fields.
People will get laid off from industries where production exceeds
demand, and will be absorbed into industries where there is a
profitable, unmet demand.
The bailouts will prevent this healthy process. The short selling
ban is designed to prop up stock prices above their equilibrium
value. The bailouts are goign to suck money that could be used in
productive profitable investments and redirect them to keeping
businesses that are operating at a loss, that are conuming more
wealth than they produce, going longer.
The Great Depression was not caused by the the lack of regulation
pre-Hoover. Int he absence of Hoover and FDR's attempts to do the
same thing the U.S. government is doing, the Depression wouldl have
lasted perhaps a year, two at most. Instead the government bailed
out failing banks, devalued the currency, imposed laws restricting
who could invest in what, who could produce what and how much of
it, and we got 16 years of depression. I won't even go into the
absurdity of the Federal Government forcing farmers to destroy
their crops in order to keep food prices high while people were
starving in the cities.
The thing you are failing to see is that failure is how people
learn. The collapse of these companies would be an object lesson to
future businessmen. Instead they are learning the valuable lesson
that if you do what the government asks you to do, no matter how
imprudent, the taxpayer will assure your profits.
And that has nothing to do with deregualtion. The deregulation that
you think would have saved you would have merely postponed the
collapse farther into the future.
|9.20.08 @ 12:53PM|#
Nice find, Jennifer. I can't believe anyone else remembers "Meet
El Presidente." It's sub-"Ordinary World" in its fame.
Although for a minute there, I thought you were nominating it for
"Best Pop Song."
BakedPenguin|9.20.08 @ 1:41PM|#
BDB, Lonewacko / Orange Line Special threatened to sue me, or at
the least called one of my comments 'libelous'.
Let's see what he thinks of the
illustrated special I made for him over at Urkobold.
BDB|9.20.08 @ 1:44PM|#
BakedPenguin--
I'm sure you will be getting a call from a LibelAttorney now.
What kind of queefbait threatens to sue people over the comments
section of a blog when he won't even use his real name?
BakedPenguin|9.20.08 @ 1:54PM|#
BDB, it's all the more hypocritical because that asshole is so full of venom he must be poisonous to the touch. He insults anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with him, and even many people who do.
BDB|9.20.08 @ 1:56PM|#
I think a hispanic guy must have run away with his wife or
something, personally.
He's a modern day Samuel Morse, except without the redeeming
scientific knowledge. Instead, he just shares his
IrrationalXenophobia and ConspiracyTheories.
VM|9.20.08 @ 2:06PM|#
BDB, Baked:
actually it was DUNDEROOOOO who ran away with his Canadian
girlfriend. you know, the one that none of us ever saw, but oh yes,
he said that she was FromCanada and WasReallyHawt it's just that
they met that OneSummer, and it was LoveAtFirstSite. She's just in
Canada. And DUNDEROOO took her from him.
BakedPenguin|9.20.08 @ 2:39PM|#
Moose - and the photo of her looked suspiciously like the ones that come with the wallet?
Jennifer|9.20.08 @ 2:53PM|#
Thanks, Joe.
I dug out the CD last spring and thought the song described Hillary
pretty well, but that was when she was going down. But it fits
Palin even better.
Dress in flimsy clothing use your lipstick line
To color fear and loathing with that pink disguise
My favorite song on the album is "American Science".
I'm a big fan of the groove.
|9.20.08 @ 2:57PM|#
Lonewacko: Here's a picture of
my girlfriend.
Innocent bystander: Isn't that Natalie Wood?
Lonewacko: Well, err, umm, Lot's of people say she looks just like
her. She really does.
|9.20.08 @ 3:19PM|#
That's OK. I've retained Johnnie Cochran. Nobody wants to mess with zombie Johnnie Cochran.
Kolohe|9.20.08 @ 3:34PM|#
Quibble:
"that's thanks to the U.S> govenrment tax policy which taxes
dividends viciously and capital gains at a much lower rate."
Dividends have also been taxed at a preferential rate since
2003
BDB|9.20.08 @ 3:39PM|#
Seriously if I got a phone call saying LoneWacko was suing me, I'd laugh my ass off for about 45 minutes.
Kolohe|9.20.08 @ 3:44PM|#
Innocent bystander: Isn't that Natalie Wood?
Lonewacko: Well, err, umm, Lot's of people say she looks just like
her. She really does.
Wait, what Ms. Wood looked like in that picture? or what she looks
like
now?
And besides, I always thought Mr Kelly had an unhealthy obsession
with Natalie Merchant.
Kolohe|9.20.08 @ 3:54PM|#
BP-
Nice.
But I would think he would be more worried about the RedChinese wrt
Triumph.
Kolohe|9.20.08 @ 3:58PM|#
On a more somber note, this sucks. IIRC, this is one of the hotels that US military people frequently use when visiting Islamabad.
|9.20.08 @ 4:38PM|#
On a more somber note, this sucks. IIRC, this is one of the
hotels that US military people frequently use when visiting
Islamabad.
*exasperated sigh*
What seems so obvious to us in the west is a complete mystery to so
many in the world.
|9.20.08 @ 5:41PM|#
The government must bail out the financial system "because if we don't, it will have a tremendous impact on American consumers, homeowners, taxpayers and the rest," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said at a citizens' workshop in San Francisco.
But, she added, "We cannot deal with this unless this bailout helps families stay in their homes."
Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., called the plan "a good foundation," but said it was missing "some kind of supervisory authority, and some kind of protection for homeowners and taxpayers."
From here
Every goddammed idiot involved with this chinese fuck story is
going to get fucking bailed out.
|9.20.08 @ 5:44PM|#
Screwed up the link I did. Screwed it up totally. What to do,
the question is.
Try again?
Ahhh. That is better, much.
|9.20.08 @ 5:47PM|#
BDB,
I know. Don't think for a moment that I support it just because
it's on my home turf. As far as I'm concerned, Ford, GM and
Chrysler can all be bought by Honda and Toyota at a fire sale.
After bankruptcy breaks the UAW contracts.
BDB|9.20.08 @ 5:49PM|#
Oh, I wasn't suggesting you would support it. Just saying,
that's what Harry and Nancy want in exchange for bailing out Wall
Street. Kind of a bi-partisan Hitler-Stalin Pact.
Detroit can go suck dick as far I'm concerned. They make horrible,
unreliable, gas guzzling cars that nobody wants to buy. I won't
shed a tear for them.
BDB|9.20.08 @ 5:51PM|#
I especially hate GM because they try to guilt trip me into buying their shitboxes with the pseudo-nationalist "our country" ads.
Kolohe|9.20.08 @ 5:56PM|#
Every goddammed idiot involved with this chinese fuck story
is going to get fucking bailed out.
*especially* the Chinese.
SIV|9.20.08 @ 6:03PM|#
BDB
Detroit made some of the finest and most beautiful cars the world
has ever seen. Everything went to shit when they couldn't do it in
the regulatory climate that came in with the 1970s. There are
occasional flashes of the old brilliance but they are screwed by
unions, the government and especially their own management.
BDB|9.20.08 @ 6:05PM|#
Oh, I agree they were great in the past. The Big Three are like a supermodel who used to be beautiful before she got hooked on methamphetamines.
BDB|9.20.08 @ 6:08PM|#
Then agian, why do the Japanese auto makers and the German auto makers not suck? Are Germany and Japan less regulated than the USA?
Elemenope|9.20.08 @ 6:14PM|#
Then again, why do the Japanese auto makers and the German
auto makers not suck? Are Germany and Japan less regulated than the
USA?
Sweet zombie Jesus, BDB! Don't bring that up!
The idea that business can and does flourish in those scary
over-regulated European countries (and Japan) frightens the
pack.
Holy frankenchrist, it's like you want them to stampede or
something.
SIV|9.20.08 @ 6:26PM|#
Take a look a t what "ordinary" Germans and especially Japanese
drive. They are exporting the higher end stuff. They would kill for
Corvettes at anything near the price we pay for them.
IIRC American cars are more reliable and have less manufacturing
problems than German autos.
American cars suffer under a stigma from what they were in the late
70s to mid 90s. That and the kind of snobbery that thinks anything
American is bad.
|9.20.08 @ 6:36PM|#
The troubles of the Big 2.5 are varied and many. As are the
causes. The fact is that Toyotas and Audis have to meet the same
standards to sell cars as GM and Ford. Another fact is that
Daimler-Chrysler didn't work out so damn well, even with teutonic
management.
I grew up in the whole Big 3/UAW culture when Toyota was a joke and
Mercedes North American sales were in the thousands. It's too late
in the day to detail all of the problems facing the domestic
manufacturers, but they are many varied and systemic. Short
synopsis - management and labor got fat, dumb and happy together
post WWII and have only recently begun to wake up to the reality of
a global auto business.
TaTa is coming and the Japanese are fearfully looking at Hyandai
Kia.
The Boss once sang about some economic reality.
They're closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks
Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back
to your hometown
Elemenope|9.20.08 @ 6:44PM|#
SIV --
Toyotas and Hondas run for-fucking-ever. I'm pretty sure they'd run
if you fired a six-pack of .45 slugs into the engine block first
and then fed a gallon of fine sand into the gas tank.
GG|9.20.08 @ 6:44PM|#
A draft of the plan to "fix" the markets power grab popped up
over at the
NYT:
Sec. 2. Purchases of Mortgage-Related Assets.
(b) Necessary Actions.--The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without limitation:
(3) designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them;
Sec. 8. Review.
Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.
Congress and
Comrade GWB will happily sign this abomination, too.
I'm too distressed to even try:
Section 1. Short Title.
This Act may be cited as ___________________.
JMR|9.20.08 @ 7:07PM|#
My problem with the GM part of the big 2.5 is their constant Ditech commercials. If GM's attempt at a financial business melded with a car business is going so poorly that they've come hat in hand to my government for my tax dollars, they need to NOT bombard me with stupid ass commercials, which cost money (tax money?) to buy. Dammit.
|9.20.08 @ 7:12PM|#
Ken,
Do you think anyone is going to prison over this? Anyone
significantly up the chain of command?
|9.20.08 @ 7:21PM|#
Anybody see this?
Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous
nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in
banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less
burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation. -
John McCain, in a magazine piece released this week.
My theory is that the gods hate John McCain.
BDB|9.20.08 @ 7:23PM|#
SIV--
I'm sorry but Japanese cars are great. German cars, too, as long as
you don't get VW (mostly because they started manufacturing in
Mexico).
British and French cars are worse than American, though.
I speak as the proud owner of a '90 Honda Civic that's lasted
forever. Meanwhile, my girlfriends 1996 (!) Ford Contour has it's
engine constantly overheat.
BDB|9.20.08 @ 7:25PM|#
Joe--
Obama will win unless they find something along the lines of a
videotape of him smoking crack with Bill Ayers and Rev. Wright, or
if Obama calls a white guy filming him "cracker" and welcomes him
to the "real world of Chicago".
|9.20.08 @ 7:35PM|#
I drive a Civic, too. It is exactly the same as it was nine years ago, except dirtier.
|9.20.08 @ 7:37PM|#
They're changing the rules of the VP debate to take it easier on
the Republican nominee.
What do you like better:
Sarah Failin', or
Sarah Flailin'?
BDB|9.20.08 @ 7:38PM|#
Joe-
It also helps Joe Biden, since he can be a windbag. The agreement
was bi-partisan.
|9.20.08 @ 7:46PM|#
The Republicans asked for it, and the Democrats acceded, because
they want so very much to have a vice-presidential debate.
This came from the McCain camp.
Kolohe|9.20.08 @ 8:04PM|#
Then again, why do the Japanese auto makers and the German auto makers not suck? Are Germany and Japan less regulated than the USA?
Sweet zombie Jesus, BDB! Don't bring that up!
The idea that business can and does flourish in those scary over-regulated European countries (and Japan) frightens the pack.
Holy frankenchrist, it's like you want them to stampede or something.
To be fair, I think the US divisions of the Japanese auto companies
(and possible the German ones too) are their most profitable.
Off to look it up.
NSA Operative|9.20.08 @ 8:05PM|#
"I drive a Civic, too. It is exactly the same as it was nine
years ago, except dirtier."
It's missing the hood emblem, I happen to know. Whether you ever
see it intact again depends on your behavior between now and
Election Day.
BDB|9.20.08 @ 8:27PM|#
To be fair, I think the US divisions of the Japanese auto companies (and possible the German ones too) are their most profitable.
I'd believe it since I also read Buick is one of the most popular
cars in China. Buick. Your grandparents car. A status
symbol in China.
Kolohe|9.20.08 @ 8:29PM|#
Can't really find anything that splits the profit out by region
(as opposed to by sector). But as a data point Honda sells 1.85 mil
autos in North America and 615 thousand in Japan. (3:1) But has net
sales of 5.2 trillion Yen in North America compared to 1.3 trillion
Yen in Japan (4:1)
(source 2008 annual report for the FY ending March 31, 2008)
BDB|9.20.08 @ 8:36PM|#
Remember though Kolohe that North America is a much bigger market than Japan.
|9.20.08 @ 8:39PM|#
I still maintain that while she's a lightweight intellectually, Palin has shown me something in standing up to her own party. And I still think she was political gold. Energized the base, make independents interested.
BDB|9.20.08 @ 8:42PM|#
The Biden/Palin debate will either be a political massacre of epic proportions or a textbook study in how to play the expectations game
Kolohe|9.20.08 @ 8:42PM|#
For additional context on the above datum, GM sells sold 4.5
million autos with $112 billion (i.e. 11 trillion yen) in net
sales.
Honda has approx 59% in
domestic content in US sales, GM is 73%.
|9.20.08 @ 8:44PM|#
"Sweet zombie Jesus, BDB! Don't bring that up!
The idea that business can and does flourish in those scary
over-regulated European countries (and Japan) frightens the
pack.
Holy frankenchrist, it's like you want them to stampede or
something."
One of the best articles I ever read in reason critiqued a
libertarian think tank that rated the best places to do business
based on how stifling the regulatory scene was. It had like Topeka
Kansas as the best and NYC as one of the worst. The article went on
to say how obviously things are very complex and NYC was just a
much more dynamic place in regards to business and culture. Good
stuff, though I'm sure the purists ("arrrgh, regulation, BAD!")
canceled their subscriptions....
BakedPenguin|9.20.08 @ 8:45PM|#
To be fair, I think the US divisions of the Japanese auto companies (and possible the German ones too) are their most profitable.
They're losing a lot on currency conversion.
Kolohe|9.20.08 @ 8:47PM|#
BDB-
Yep, that's why I think the ratios between Japan and N.A. numbers
are interesting, but not necessarily the raw numbers themselves.
And looked up the equivalent GM N.A #'s, as well as what % of the
product is actually manufactured in the sales region.
Orange Line Special|9.20.08 @ 8:48PM|#
None of the people above are really the owner of the link site. I'd suggest the person spoofing me call an attorney in preparation for a libel suit.
Gov. Sarah Palin (R-AK)|9.20.08 @ 9:29PM|#
JRR Tolkein? That's kind of an elitist author isn't it Joe? You elite snob!
Orange Line Special|9.20.08 @ 9:33PM|#
The previous comment wasn't me. I am not stupid enough to threaten libel lawsuits over anonymous blog comments, or to have some DumbAss notion that as "owner of the link site" I also own the handle "Orange Line Special" on reason.com or to believe some court of law is going to give TwoShits that someone dared to spoof me in the blog comments, or that any lawyer I took this case to would laugh my xenophobic ass out of his office. I may at times have GrandioseDelusions of my relevance and importance but even my SelfAbsorption has its limits.
highnumber|9.20.08 @ 9:37PM|#
I may at times have GrandioseDelusions of my relevance and importance but even my SelfAbsorption has its limits.
Clearly, this comment was not left by the RealLonelyWhacker.
Orange Line Special|9.20.08 @ 9:37PM|#
None of the above posters are from me. They're all spoofs. I'd recommend that you not spoof me, unless you're prepared to book time with an attorney.
Orange Line Special|9.20.08 @ 9:45PM|#
I'll also be suing "Urkobold" as soon as blogger gives me his IP address and identification.
Kolohe|9.20.08 @ 10:09PM|#
On the subject of bailouts just saw this linked on
fark.
The owner's of the Nationals haven't paid the rent for the stadium,
so "the city has had to use funds from a special business tax for
debt service on the stadium project."
The owners say that haven't paid the rent because the stadium isn't
"substantially complete."
It must be difficult for Mr. Lerner to walk hauling around those
big brass balls of his.
Orange Line Special|9.21.08 @ 12:28AM|#
All the posts above threatening lawsuits are spoof posts. I did
not make them.
I am tired of people trying to make me look bad by writing this
BS.
If this keeps up, I will be subpoenaing Reason's server records and
sue the posters for libel. And I will win.
NSA Operative|9.21.08 @ 12:34AM|#
JRR Tolkien works in a totally separate division decrypting e-mail traffic written in Early Anglo-Saxon. I know this is classified information, but that pipe-smoking Elvish-chanting oldster really rubs me the wrong way, and if Richard Armitage can get away with it why can't I.
own goaled|9.21.08 @ 12:36AM|#
Who is the greater fool -- the fool or the one who pretends to be the fool?
tarran|9.21.08 @ 12:39AM|#
Who is the greater fool -- the fool or the one who pretends to be the fool?
It depends - how funny is the pretender?
Jewel|9.21.08 @ 1:09AM|#
"Bob Barr won Texas. Maybe."
How fucking adolescent. The bitch can't win the presidency and he
knows it. So what does he do? He acts like a 13-year-old
girl.
The people of Texas -- the PEOPLE, get it? -- want both Obama and
McCain on the ballot. The PEOPLE! Go ahead, poll that, and see what
you get.
Nevertheless, this bullshit little schoolgirl is going to waste the
time and money of the good people of Texas because he's a little
13-year-old bitch. Why? Because like all adolescents, that's all
he's got (e.g., daddy and mommy say I can't drink beer, but THEY
drink beer). Useless, tax-wasting, 13-year-old bitch.
zoltan|9.21.08 @ 2:11AM|#
What's wrong with adolescents drinking beer?
And hurrah for Barr; as a Texan I'm proud someone's calling on the
duopoly political system for not following the rules. He has every
right to make sure others followed the law the same as he
did.
Who gives a shit what the people want? Their elected
representatives wrote the law--that's what they're there for--and
the law states a deadline. If the people want their candidates on
the ballot, then the people should have alerted them to those
deadlines.
Besides, 13-year-old girls aren't as bad as Obama or McCain.
BDB|9.21.08 @ 9:02AM|#
So the posts threatening lawsuits weren't by you, except for the
last post where you threatened a lawsuit?
Ok. That makes total sense.
|9.21.08 @ 9:54AM|#
JRR Tolkein? That's kind of an elitist author isn't it
Joe?
Well, obviously. Count the middle names. That's a pretty good
sign.
Jim Bob, where the hell did you find that? "I can't shove my fist
in your childhood dreams."
And I think it was Edward, no Lone Wacko, who used to threaten
lawsuits. Don't mess with the bull, you Urkobold freaks, you will
get the horns.
BakedPenguin|9.21.08 @ 10:07AM|#
Yes, it was Edward who used to threaten lawsuits. Perhaps he actually went to a lawyer, who might have told him that obvious satire / parody such as the Adventures of Lonewacko is not considered libel.
SolitaryWackMoose|9.21.08 @ 10:13AM|#
WHY DID WACKO CHANGE HIS NAME FROM 'THE LONE WOLF' ALL THOSE
YEARS AGO???
BETCHA PEOPLE WITH LUPUS SUED.
Jewel|9.21.08 @ 10:35AM|#
"Who gives a shit what the people want? Well clearly not 13-year-old girls like you.
EJM|9.21.08 @ 1:41PM|#
Mel B. tells us how to react to this.
I honestly thought that you were referring to the former Spice
Girl, not Mr. Brooks.
|9.21.08 @ 2:26PM|#
joe,
Random vid I found browsing the Tube. I think that dude's pretty
damn funny, though- the deadpan cracks me up.
dhex|9.21.08 @ 9:06PM|#
I'd suggest the person spoofing me call an attorney in
preparation for a libel suit.
i suggest LoneWacko makes us all some hot MicrowavePopcorn because
he's more entertaining than a DoubleFeature.
Orange Line Special|9.21.08 @ 11:05PM|#
The satire's pretty funny, thanks!
However, the reason for libel is that the combination of my handle
(OLS) together with a link to my site (the old URL leads to the new
URL, so they're basically the same), combined with a statement that
might be misconstrued as something other than satire/parod does
obviously qualify as libel. There may be other internet law issues,
but I would have to find a specialist to deal with those.
All kidding aside, those engaging in non-satires should seek legal
advice.
|9.22.08 @ 1:20PM|#
OrangeLineSpecial,
According to Wikipedia, there are several defenses against the
charge of libel. This one applies:
Claimant is incapable of further defamation-e.g., the claimant's position in the community is so poor that defamation could not do further damage to the plaintiff. Such a claimant could be said to be "libel-proof," since in most jurisdictions, actual damage is an essential element for a libel claim. Essentially, the defense is that the person has a bad reputation before the libel, hence there was no further damages by the statement.
zoltan|9.22.08 @ 4:00PM|#
"Who gives a shit what the people want? Well clearly not
13-year-old girls like you.
Hey good job actually answering the argument and not resorting to
ad hominem attacks.
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