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Reason Writers Around Town: Katherine Mangu-Ward on Hillary Voters
In the third installment of her weeklong debate in
the Los Angeles Times with blogger Amanda Marcotte,
Katherine Mangu-Ward ponders the appropriateness of white shoes
after Labor Day and whether any Hillary voters will cast a ballot
for Palin.
Read today's exchange here.
Read the second installment here.
Read the first installment here.
Clamboy|9.10.08 @ 5:51PM|#
Reason:
But enough about Palin. Let's talk about Hillary votes.
So, Hillary voter, what do YOU think about Palin?
Reason
All Palin! All the time.
Clamboy|9.10.08 @ 6:00PM|#
BTW, Kim Jong Il likely had a stroke. Hasn't been seen since Aug
14.
Russia threatens to target US missile shield sites.
Interfax: Venezuela.
Lehman falls 45% on capital concerns.
7.5 Mag Earthquake in Iran.
But I digress.
|9.10.08 @ 6:13PM|#
Clamboy reminds me - did we see anything on Reason about the
handover of Anbar province to the Iraqis?
When was the last time Reason said anything about Iraq, anyway?
|9.10.08 @ 6:19PM|#
"Voters aren't that stupid
Counterpoint: Amanda Marcotte"
I gotta give this one to Katherine.
BDB|9.10.08 @ 6:24PM|#
RC Dean-
Everything is now about Palin and lipstick and pigs and who is
being more sexist or something. Didn't you get that memo? That's
the most pressing issue facing our nation right now.
Seward|9.10.08 @ 6:24PM|#
R.C. Dean,
Does this Anbar transfer mean that the Sunni fighters the U.S. is
currently paying no longer get those payments?
Clamboy|9.10.08 @ 6:56PM|#
"Interfax: Venezuela."
That should have read: Two Russian bombers land in Venezuela, but I
was in a hurry to leave the office.
That Russia and Venezuela are conducting joint military exercises
is major news. Perhaps someone from Reason can head down there and
ask the bomber pilots why they're there and what do they think
about Palin.
BDB|9.10.08 @ 7:01PM|#
Putin has to be laughing his ass off right now over what our news media is discussing.
Paul|9.10.08 @ 7:02PM|#
BTW, Kim Jong Il likely had a stroke. Hasn't been seen since
Aug 14.
But what's his position on Palin?
Anyhoo, out of curiosity, I read Marcotte's profile on Wikipedia.
Almost feel sorry for her. It reminds me of the idiom that suggests
that women could rule the world... if they could get along with
eachother for five minutes.
Paul|9.10.08 @ 7:06PM|#
joe:
Voters are only stupid when they don't agree with you. Everyone
agrees on that.
Media Geek|9.10.08 @ 7:08PM|#
I think I know what Reason is doing here. They have come to realize that the hyper-coverage of Obama over the last year produced reader fatigue (Obama is so last year know). They're hoping to do the same with Palin. But. Unfortunately. There. Is. So. Little. Time.
|9.10.08 @ 7:08PM|#
Putin has to be laughing his ass off right now over what our
news media is discussing.
Nah. He's evilly chortling over what Russia's news media isn't.
|9.10.08 @ 7:14PM|#
Most voters, like all other forms of humanity, are too fuckin'
dumb for words. I'm constantly flabbergasted by the stupidity and
ignorance displayed by my fellow Homo sapiens.
Dems and Republicans, Libertarians and Commies, men and women, the
old and the young, the rich and the poor ...
|9.10.08 @ 7:16PM|#
Its back to identity politics! God, guns and gays for the
ignorant rural rednecks who fear "scary European ideas and
liberals" and the ACLU.
Jesus fucking Christ. Americans are too stupid to survive.
Gorgeous Gus the Wonder Dog|9.10.08 @ 7:24PM|#
"In the third installment of her weeklong debate in the Los
Angeles Times with blogger Amanda Marcotte, Katherine Mangu-Ward
ponders the appropriateness of white shoes after Labor Day and
whether any Hillary voters will cast a ballot for Palin."
I can't wait for installments four and five.
|9.10.08 @ 7:39PM|#
I sit with baited breath, waiting for installments four and five
of the Palin Chronicles.
God help us.
Dagny T.|9.10.08 @ 7:41PM|#
Marcotte basically countered KMW's assertion that voters
flip-flop and aren't always rational with the fact that "it's the
media's fault." Ick.
Media responsibility? Last I checked, there are zillions (yup,
zillions) of places to get your news. Some are more reliable than
others, but that's up to the consumer to figure out. Caveat
emptor and all that jazz. If one media outlet gets too
"shallow [and] stupid," change the channel &/or website.
And, surprise!, there's no massive media conspiracy to force us to
focus on Hil's pantsuits or Obama's weight. That's what we
want to read.
The evil, male-driven media makes us focus on gender? The deus
ex machina is always a tempting solution, but usually doesn't
pan out in reality.
|9.10.08 @ 8:00PM|#
Just got done voting at the walk-in voting booth at the mall, for a bunch of people none of whom has any chance whatsoever of getting elected. And none of whom has any chance of getting endorsed by the local papers. Actually, since I consider any endorsement by the Honolulu Advertiser as proof that the person endorsed is a ruinously bad choice, that second sentence is probably redundant.
|9.10.08 @ 8:16PM|#
*Off-topic* but I couldn't help it.
Bush supposedly looked into Putin's eyes and saw his soul.
Considering the general demeanor of our CIC, and the fact that
Vlad's last name sounds like a juvenile BR joke...is anyone else
surprised that Bush didn't break out into huge beavis like guffaws
when he was face-to-face?
|9.10.08 @ 8:37PM|#
Why bother to write about Hillary? The democrats narrowly
escaped a crushing defeat by picking Obama, and we don't have to
worry about that bitch again for at least four years.
I would hope, of course, that her lying, sniveling, arm-twisting
and race-baiting this time around would have sunk her nomination
prospects for good, but that's probably giving the members of the
pinko wing of the Ruling Party too much credit.
-jcr
B|9.10.08 @ 9:20PM|#
"Does this Anbar transfer mean that the Sunni fighters the U.S.
is currently paying no longer get those payments"
You gotta love it. Every time someone points out the obvious
progress in Iraq, there is always some moron with his hands over
his ears, or eyes in this case, shouting "la la la la la".
B|9.10.08 @ 9:22PM|#
"I would hope, of course, that her lying, sniveling,
arm-twisting and race-baiting this time around would have sunk her
nomination prospects for good, but that's probably giving the
members of the pinko wing of the Ruling Party too much
credit."
I challenge you to provide one legitimate example of race-baiting
by Hillary Clinton.
Bill Clinton|9.10.08 @ 9:23PM|#
Jesse Jackson won South Carolina twice--in '84, and '88. He ran a good campaign, and Senator Obama has run a good campaign.
B|9.10.08 @ 9:25PM|#
Of course a sizable portion of Hillary die-hards are going to vote for McCain. A McCain victory is the only way that Hillary will ever be able to run for president again, unless the Democrats suddenly decide eight years from now that age is not an issue. Of course their hypocrisy knows no bounds, so you never know.
B|9.10.08 @ 9:27PM|#
"Jesse Jackson won South Carolina twice--in '84, and '88. He ran
a good campaign, and Senator Obama has run a good campaign."
I said a legitimate example, not an example that is racism only in
the feverish minds of thin-skinned Obama supporters. Or maybe you
missed the story concerning the memo from the Obama campaign. You
know, the one where they state they are going to equate every
perceived slight with racism. Hell, it even discussed making up
shit.
|9.10.08 @ 9:56PM|#
*Yawn*
You know what's the only thing more tired than people talking about
how dumb Americans/humans/Everyone else is? The people who don't
realize that those people *dumber* than they are actually decide
the fate of the world. Far better to educate/enlighten them than
constantly bemoan how stupid they are.
|9.10.08 @ 10:44PM|#
I sit with baited breath
Maybe he just a tuna sandwich, and he has a secret lesbian
fetish
MJ|9.10.08 @ 10:48PM|#
Though I disagree with her mostly, I think Marcotte has the better side in this. Hilary voters are unlikely to vote for McCain/Palin just because Palin is a woman. I think they are on the whole primarily motivated by ideology and secondarily by identity politics. Palin does not share their politics so her identity as woman will not trump their liberalism. There might be some Hilary women who are upset about how the primaries turned out to vote GOP as a "take that" to the Obamans, but I doubt they would be more than a very narrow fringe. On the other hand, women who lean toward voting GOP anyway but were tepid at best about the McCain ticket will likely have more enthusiasm to vote in numbers with Palin on the ticket, both for her ideology and for being a woman. That is likely the point of Palin's selection, not the pipe dream of turning liberal women to vote for a GOP ticket.
MJ|9.10.08 @ 10:57PM|#
"In part, it's because an honest education of the public on the
candidates' major policy differences would hand this election to
Obama in a landslide, driving down ratings because people wouldn't
be chewing their nails staring at the screen every minute in
anticipation of what's going to happen."
Really? Obama thinks it's a good idea to raise capital gains taxes
in an inflationary economy out of a sense of "fairness" but
Marcotte thinks that Obama's policies are just so obviously better
that he'd win for sure if someone would only explain them to the
voters properly. Amanda, your delusions are just so cute.
MJ|9.10.08 @ 11:05PM|#
"The main group of voters as concerned about gender as the
mainstream media might be right-wing men who become very anxious at
the idea of female authority,..."
Right wing men are anxious about women in authority? Uh yeah, sure.
Right wing men are anxious about the kind of woman you'd want to
put into authority does not mean they don't like female authority
figures at all. Th enthusiasm for Palin on the right would seem to
debunked Marcotte's thesis even before it was made.
Urkobold™|9.11.08 @ 9:24AM|#
BATED BREATH IS DISGUSTING; THEN AGAIN, IF THE URKOBOLD COULD BATE WITH HIS MOUTH, HE'D NEVER LEAVE HIS HOME.
|9.11.08 @ 10:23AM|#
"Most voters, like all other forms of humanity, are too fuckin'
dumb for words. I'm constantly flabbergasted by the stupidity and
ignorance displayed by my fellow Homo sapiens."
QFT. Many times I have thought and said the same thing... the
masses are asses.
(just being an echo... Im tired of all the Palin talk).
|9.11.08 @ 10:41AM|#
Many times I have thought and said the same thing... the
masses are asses.
Unfortunately, its a short step from this to the conclusion that
the masses need large chunks of their lives organized and managed
by their Betters. I'll pass, thanks.
LarryA|9.11.08 @ 1:55PM|#
In part, it's because an honest education of the public on
the candidates' major policy differences would hand this election
to Obama in a landslide, driving down ratings because people
wouldn't be chewing their nails staring at the screen every minute
in anticipation of what's going to happen.
This from the one who starts out, "Voters aren't that stupid?" This
is a typical "We know what's right and the voters are too
uninformed to see the Truth" liberal. (There are counterparts on
the conservative side.)
I mean, really, is there anyone who is even mildly interested in
the election left, who does not understand what the Obama and
McCain policies are?
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