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Tippecanoe and Roslin, Too?
The chatter is all about how Gov. Palin's
inexperience will undermine the McCain campaign's ability to hammer
on Sen. Obama for his inexperience. The comparison seems a little
odd, though. If McCain is elected, she'll be picking up highly
relevant experience very rapidly, in the low exposure role of VP.
Obama won't have that luxury.
But there are two possibilities we must consider:
1) The William Henry Harrison scenario: McCain could, in theory, arrive in Washington be inaugurated on a cold and blustery day, give a 2-hour, 8,444-word speech, and succumb to pneumonia a month later, leaving Palin with 3 and 11/12 of a presidency to serve and nothing besides these parting words: "Madam, I wish you to understand the true principles of the government. I wish them carried out. I ask nothing more."
2) The Battlestar Galactica
scenario: McCain could also be killed when the
Cylons return and wipe out most of humanity with a nuclear
weapon. In Battlestar, the 42 officials in line ahead of
Secretary of Education Laura Roslin fail to check in, and she
assumes the presidency. She has no foreign policy experience,
either.
reason on the line of succession here. reason on the William Henry Harrison/McCain comparison here. reason with more Battlestar '08 connections here.
Elemenope|8.29.08 @ 4:51PM|#
Yes. Those scenarios are obviously comparable.
(What?!)
To be fair to the notion, the first scenario is not crazy (McCain
is old AND a cancer survivor), but the second scenario presupposes
a catastrophe that would likely obviate any need for mad l33t
diplomacy skillz. There would be more pressing problems.
Franklin Harris|8.29.08 @ 4:55PM|#
Isn't governing Alaska a bit like governing a post-apocalyptic wasteland, anyway?
Elemenope|8.29.08 @ 5:04PM|#
Note that President Roslin turned pro-life during the
show...
Notable only because it was likely that humans would fail to breed
up to the replacement rate. That was a situation that if not
rectified would have *doomed the species to extinction*.
Not exactly a comparable situation to our current one. I think
humanity as a species dying out changes some of the moral
calculus.
Seward|8.29.08 @ 5:05PM|#
Note that President Roslin turned pro-life during the
show...
Except for those she orders out airlocks.
Elemenope|8.29.08 @ 5:06PM|#
But who is Gaius Baltar?
We can't know that until after McCain dies and Palin chooses a
vice-president to succeed her in order to fend of a political
attack from the former terrorist running against her.
Duh.
Elemenope|8.29.08 @ 5:07PM|#
Except for those she orders out airlocks.
Silly colonial! Cylons aren't people.
Dagny T.|8.29.08 @ 5:07PM|#
But who is Gaius Baltar?
Could be one of the Clintons. Slick, self-serving, adept at using
popular autobiographies to shore up support. Possibly secretly
delusional.
Seward|8.29.08 @ 5:10PM|#
Elemenope,
They are sentient beings. Whether they are "people" or not is is
thus irrelevant. ;)
Dagny T.|8.29.08 @ 5:11PM|#
Yup, Epi, Edwards does fit most of my criteria, too.
Inappropriate/politically damaging affair? Check.
Populist rhetoric? Check.
Gives the impression of being one of the weakest men alive? Double
check.
|8.29.08 @ 5:19PM|#
Gives the impression of being one of the weakest men alive?
Double check.
Gaius is the best pathetic shithead narcissist character evar.
Elemenope|8.29.08 @ 5:23PM|#
All sentient species ought to be able to live in
harmony.
Sez who, exactly?
|8.29.08 @ 5:25PM|#
"All sentient species ought to be able to live in
harmony."
Still,
the only good Zargonian is a dead Zargonian.
|8.29.08 @ 5:27PM|#
All sentient species ought to be able to live in
harmony.
You tell that to the Romulans. See how hard they laugh before they
pwn your ass.
Dagny T.|8.29.08 @ 5:28PM|#
Sez who, exactly?
So much anti-cylon prejudice! Just think of the cute, cute little
half-cylon baby and everything will...
Wait. Forgot who I was talking to:
Just think of the hot, hot cylon women and everything will make
sense.
|8.29.08 @ 5:29PM|#
All sentient species ought to be able to live in
harmony.
There are exceptions.
All right, we'll give some land to the niggers and the chinks, but we DON'T WANT THE IRISH.
|8.29.08 @ 5:31PM|#
Just think of the hot, hot cylon women and everything will
make sense.
Time for a trip to Canada!
On second thought, with my arrest record, that is probably
unfortunately not going to happen with the new border rules.
Elemenope|8.29.08 @ 5:32PM|#
Just think of the hot, hot cylon women and everything will
make sense.
For most guys, pretty does not cancel out *homicidal* or
*psychotic*.
I'm one of those guys.
Elemenope|8.29.08 @ 5:33PM|#
On second thought, with my arrest record
What did you get pinched on, anti-Canuck hate speech?
Dagny T.|8.29.08 @ 5:36PM|#
On second thought, with my arrest record, that is probably
unfortunately not going to happen with the new border
rules.
That is really too bad. Canadians know how to do a long weekend
right.
The arrest was for obscenity charges, like Stagliano, right? It's
got to be that, or hacking the Pentagon.
|8.29.08 @ 5:37PM|#
What did you get pinched on, anti-Canuck hate
speech?
That plus the weapons charges. They don't look kindly on
gunrunning. And don't forget the indecent exposure charges.
|8.29.08 @ 5:40PM|#
The arrest was for obscenity charges, like Stagliano, right?
It's got to be that, or hacking the Pentagon.
Yours was better :-(
I actually do have a nice arrest record (6 times!) so I seriously
probably can't go to Canada any more.
Lefiti|8.29.08 @ 5:43PM|#
Once she succeeds McCain, Palin could become an American social conservative Margaret Thatcher. We'll have creationism required in all biology courses; abortion will be outlawed; gays and lesbians will be forced back into the closet, and Christmas will come out of the closet; illegal immigrants and anybody with a thick accent will be sent packing; the Ten Commandments will be posted in all federal buildings. Liberals, Sodomites, Satan worshipers, and Mormons will be shaking in their boots.
Elemenope|8.29.08 @ 5:46PM|#
Lefiti,
Do you really have to hijack *all* the threads with your inane
folderol?
Dagny T.|8.29.08 @ 5:50PM|#
I actually do have a nice arrest record (6 times!) so I
seriously probably can't go to Canada any more.
I'm torn between sympathy for your plight and curiousity about your
arrests, and am also aware that that constitutues a skillful move
on your part.
Lefiti|8.29.08 @ 5:54PM|#
Folderol? Palin is one of those right-wing Christians, isn't she How does she fit into Libertopia? I thought libertarians were pretty much secular, pro-science types with weak reasoning skills. Oh, I guess that last bit explains it.
Justin Slotman|8.29.08 @ 6:02PM|#
This is so totally the Tigh-Roslin ticket: reflexive belligerence and total inexperience united at last!
|8.29.08 @ 6:05PM|#
Gaius is the best pathetic shithead narcissist character evar.
Damned righter words have not been spoken.
Lefiti,
Man, you have no idea about what the presidency's about, do you? We
had years and years of a conservative presidency, Congress, and
judiciary, and abortion's still legal, evolution is still taught,
and government and religion are generally still kept apart. I don't
like the Right's rhetoric much more than I like the Left's, but the
fact remains that Americans will only tolerate so much from its
fringes. You sound positively Edwardian when you speak so.
|8.29.08 @ 6:12PM|#
The Veep assumed the presidency three times in the last century. The possibility makes me more worried about Obama, and more excited about McCain.
|8.29.08 @ 6:26PM|#
Liberals, Sodomites, Satan worshipers, and Mormons will be
shaking in their boots.
Unlikely. Liberals don't wear boots.
|8.29.08 @ 6:27PM|#
Has Sarah done a MILF gangbang?
That would easily win over the porn/drugs LP faction - but it could
undermine the fundie/aborto-freak rival LP faction....
robc|8.29.08 @ 6:33PM|#
lmnop,
For most guys, pretty does not cancel out *homicidal*
or and *psychotic*.
FTFY. "And" is right out. "Or" is okay, at least for a while.
Leftiti|8.29.08 @ 6:44PM|#
And in the death, as the last few corpses lay rotting on the slimy thoroughfare, the shutters lifted in inches in Temperance Building high on Poachers Hill and red mutant eyes gaze down on Hunger City. No more big wheels. Fleas the size of rats sucked on rats the size of cats and ten thousand peoploids split into small tribes, coveting the highest of the sterile skyscrapers like packs of dogs assaulting the glass fronts of Love-Me Avenue, ripping and rewrapping mink and shiny silver fox, now legwarmers. Family badge of sapphire and cracked emerald... Any day now... The year of the Palin presidency.
|8.29.08 @ 6:53PM|#
Lefti-
If one is to be taken seriously, one must acknowledge that, as a
general rule, libertarians have significantly higher IQs than
communists, progressives, socialists, fabians, marxists, leninists,
stalinists, maoists, pol- potists, trade unionists, feminists,
greens, laborites and most of all, every single elected
democrat.
|8.29.08 @ 7:03PM|#
Lefti-
Oh, I gotta give ya my version of the Fairness Doctrine.
Libertarians, as a general rule, also have significantly higher IQs
than tories, conservatives, neo-conservatives, paleo-conservatives,
rightists, rightwingers, nationalists, fascists, authoritarians,
royalists, theocrats, religious fundamentalists and most of all,
every single elected republican-save one, but he's not really a
republican.
James Leroy Wilson|8.29.08 @ 7:11PM|#
The headline made me think of the perfect GOP slogaan: "P.O.W. and a woman, too!" And indeed, that will be the sole content of their platform and message. They have nothing else to run on.
squarooticus|8.29.08 @ 7:23PM|#
Pro Libertate:
We had years and years of a conservative presidency, Congress, and judiciary
This demonstrates to me that you don't know what "conservative"
means. GWB and the neo-cons, along with most of the modern GOP, are
not conservatives, despite the poorly-chosen label.
Conservatives are much closer to libertarians than to the big
government, central-control, differently-socialist, theocratic
warmongers who now run the GOP.
Justin Slotman:
This is so totally the Tigh-Roslin ticket: reflexive belligerence and total inexperience united at last!
I don't think I've laughed so hard in weeks at a post here. Good
insight!
shrike|8.29.08 @ 7:40PM|#
This demonstrates to me that you don't know what
"conservative" means. GWB and the neo-cons, along with most of the
modern GOP, are not conservatives, despite the poorly-chosen label.
Conservatives are much closer to libertarians than to the big
government, central-control, differently-socialist, theocratic
warmongers who now run the GOP.
100% correct. But you must admit that YOUR definition of
"conservative" equates to that of a classical liberal.
Bush has been an unmitigated disaster. Only the fundie idiots on
here think differently.
You gotta flush the shit out of the can before real progress will
occur. Guys like SIV and Gilbert Martin are the shit that has to
go.
squarooticus|8.29.08 @ 7:46PM|#
But you must admit that YOUR definition of "conservative" equates to that of a classical liberal.
That sounds about right: real conservatives believe democracy
works, but that government should be as local as possible, and with
as little power as is needed to maintain order.
That does sound suspiciously like (classical) liberalism.
|8.29.08 @ 7:51PM|#
Bush has been an unmitigated disaster. Only the fundie
idiots on here think differently.
What fundie idiots on here?
Frankly, shrike, you don't have a great "beam-mote" ratio or
"pot-kettle" ratio to be throwing elbows like that.
shrike|8.29.08 @ 8:00PM|#
Cut the shit.
You know damn good and well that SCOTUS "originalists" like Scalia
are here to overturn established law on personal religious
grounds.
When you get down to it - their "Federalist Society" is all about
reinstituting a theocracy - which is anathema to
Libertarianism.
shrike|8.29.08 @ 8:10PM|#
That is what is wrong here in the US political scene - we can't
decide if the Puritans rule of not.
Until then - economic matters will take a back seat.
|8.29.08 @ 8:34PM|#
"real conservatives believe democracy works"
What "real conservatives" have you been reading? Many conservative
theorists were less than enthusiastic about democracy which they
saw as tending toward mob rule.
"with as little power as is needed to maintain order"
Again, what conservatives are you reading? Burke thought an
established church was crucial to preserving order and that the
government should step on religous dissenters. He also supported a
vigorous law enforcement apparatus.
|8.29.08 @ 8:37PM|#
I can't wait for the Veep debate! (Alben Barkley of Tennessee,
Truman's Veep, coined the word.)
For the record, such as it is here, "experience" counts for nought
in my peaceful anarchist opinion.
Ben Franklin thought he was party to a "republic."
We couldn't "keep it." (Sorry, Ben.)
So the definition of our best leader today is: "Who is 'nimble and
quick' enough to get out in front of whichever way the hoi polloi
seem to be heading.
In view of my foregoing, Palin looks like an excellent choice.
|8.29.08 @ 8:46PM|#
I'm torn between sympathy for your plight and curiousity
about your arrests, and am also aware that that constitutues a
skillful move on your part.
Yoda taught me well.
ed|8.29.08 @ 9:41PM|#
It's been 63 years since a sitting president (FDR, who did in fact sit most of the time) died in office of natural causes. So we have a presidential candidate on one side with no executive experience running against an opponent whose running mate has some executive experience, who incidentally happens to be hot, and who can fish and hunt and stuff. Why is this a problem again?
Eddy|8.29.08 @ 9:53PM|#
"Unlikely. Liberals don't wear boots."
Of course they do, but "shaking in their Uggs" doesn't have the
same ring to it.
|8.29.08 @ 10:02PM|#
"So we have a presidential candidate on one side with no
executive experience running against an opponent whose running mate
has some executive experience, who incidentally happens to be hot,
and who can fish and hunt and stuff. Why is this a problem
again?"
Well, according to her wikipage she did not seem adverse to using
eminent domain as Mayor of Wasilla and before she opposed the
bridge to nowhere she supported it saying the project needed to be
completed "while our congressional delegation is in a strong
position to assist."
On the other hand there is quite a bit to like. That she has shown
an ability to stand up to some of the corrpution rife in her own
party in Alaska is quite admirable. She also has a more nuanced
view of gay rights than you might guess...
apaulogist|8.29.08 @ 10:08PM|#
The prograssives stole the word "liberal."
The Neocons stole the word "conservative"
Noam Fucking Chomsky is attempting to steal the word
"libertarian."
Gov. Palin was an inspired choice, but I still can't vote for
McCain because he's still a douchebag. I will be rooting for him
now from my position on the fringe though.
Biden? What a crappy choice for O'Bama. Now the electorate has to
choose between left-warmongers and right-warmongers.
What are the choices for a Paul cabinet position?
ed|8.29.08 @ 10:22PM|#
the electorate has to choose between left-warmongers and
right-warmongers
Palin is a "warmonger"? Assuming you intended the plural, how did
you come to that conclusion? Because she has a son in the
army?
And Obama is a "warmonger" too? Wow.
Time to sleep it off, apaulogist, if that is indeed your real
name.
Thanks for playing, and come back again real soon.
|8.29.08 @ 10:32PM|#
joe! Obama has countered with a stunning announcement! This may be the greatest presidential campaign ever.
Gilbert Martin|8.29.08 @ 10:36PM|#
Poor little shrike.
I see the nurse forgot to adjust his meds again.
Either that or they're short staffed at whatever nuthouse he's
confined to.
|8.29.08 @ 11:34PM|#
I've looked on all the Palin threads and I can't believe no one has referenced Heinlein's "The Happy Days Ahead" from Expanded Universe
David|8.30.08 @ 12:06AM|#
Ahh, obscure historical references to the election of 1840, and
its parallels to 2008. Might I say how much I fucking love
Reason?
BTW, Roslin differs from "Tyler, too" in that she was not put on
the ticket to appeal to ideologically opposite voting bloc. If you
can recall you US History class, Harrison needed someone to swing a
few southern votes his way, and Tyler did this perfectly. However,
when Harrison, the Whig, died, Tyler, the Democrat-at-heart, was
commander-in-chief, and he proceeded to veto numerous bills written
by Whig leader Henry Clay. He was subsequently expelled from the
party. Perhaps Joe Lieberman would have made a better "Tyler, too"
comparison.
Metal Messiah|8.30.08 @ 12:07AM|#
The biggest difference between Tigh and McCain is that Tigh
didn't crack while he was being held prisoner.
Though one has to wonder whether Barack Obama and Joe Biden will
protect us against a surprise Cylon attack better than John McCain
and Harriet Miers Sarah Palin.
B|8.30.08 @ 12:51AM|#
"We had years and years of a conservative presidency, Congress,
and judiciary'
I'm sorry, but anyone who calls George Bush a conservative should
just quit and call it a day.
JB|8.30.08 @ 1:22AM|#
Obama doesn't have foreign policy experience. Giving a speech in Berlin doesn't count. Maybe he got some 'experience' watching a shizer film while there, but that doesn't have much to do with policy.
Deus ex Machina|8.30.08 @ 2:28AM|#
Wasn't one of the subplots of season 2 Roslin's flashback to the secret affair she had with the then President?
|8.30.08 @ 5:44AM|#
I am a huge fan of Battlestar Galactica and 24. But invoking
Laura Roslin in this thread seems tantamount to our esteemed
elected officials justifying waterboarding because it is what Jack
Bauer would do. Can we get back to a reality-based
discussion?
By the way, let's not forget that a woman VP candidate was
nominated years ago and won the ONLY electoral college vote cast
for a woman thus far: Tonie Nathan of the Libertarian Party.
|8.30.08 @ 5:50AM|#
Sorry, Nathan received the FIRST electoral college vote ever cast for a woman. I haven't forgotten Mondale-Ferraro.
|8.30.08 @ 6:09AM|#
Stephen,
I concur, I had high hopes for this thread too.
I heard some people before mention how Palin would be a dream come
true, next to Barr getting 30% or something. I had never heard of
her, so when the news came out I rushed to H&R.
What I found out so far is that some people would have sex with
her.
Which is not really news in any way because there was somebody on
these internets that was saying he(or she?) would have sex with
Hillary.
|8.30.08 @ 6:44AM|#
there was somebody on these internets that was saying he(or she?) would have sex with Hillary.
I didn't say I'd like myself afterwards.
BakedPenguin|8.30.08 @ 9:39AM|#
I concur, I had high hopes for this thread too.
Well, you could go to the
CATO podcast page where they discuss her record.
No real surprises in the podcast. She's pretty good from a
libertarian perspective, other than abortion (if you're a pro-life
libertarian, she's almost perfect). She is less of a social con on
other issues, such as gay marriage, etc. Strong supporter of the
2nd amendment, supports offshore + ANWR drilling
Fiscal con - she killed the bridge to nowhere and sent federal
money back.(!)
She came from a working class family, which the McCain campaign
might use to counter the "how many houses?" ads.
|8.30.08 @ 10:55AM|#
ART-P.O.G.-
Funny. I see that you have your sense of humor this morning in
addition to your morning after self inquisition, "what was I
thinking?"
|8.30.08 @ 11:18AM|#
I had high hopes for this thread
I don't know why.
But I respect and admire your optimism. And I am perfectly willing
to believe Governor Palin could do a better job as President than
any of the three Senators idiots.
|8.30.08 @ 11:19AM|#
LOL, Palin is a joke! All doubt has been removed that McBush is
completely off his rocker! I cannot believe that anyone with a
single ounce of common sense would be taking McBush seriously. It
just does not make ANY sense!
Whistler
http://www.anoweb.alturl.com/
Bill Clinton|8.30.08 @ 11:31AM|#
"there was somebody on these internets that was saying he(or
she?) would have sex with Hillary."
Wasn't me.
Neu Mejican|8.30.08 @ 11:32AM|#
McCain is trying to have his conservative base cake and eat his
Hillary refugees cake too...
It might be inspired, but I am not sure the Hillary supporters are
going to be fooled, and I think he lost some moderate cred with his
choice.
It is all about the bases now, and the Democrats are gonna get more
people to the polls, imo.
Travis|8.30.08 @ 11:48AM|#
This bar owner is awesome.
http://www.kwqc.com/Global/story.asp?S=8882264
LarryA|8.30.08 @ 12:01PM|#
In Battlestar, the 42 officials in line ahead of Secretary
of Education Laura Roslin fail to check in, and she assumes the
presidency. She has no foreign policy experience,
either.
Given that in the BSG universe there were 1. People, and 2. Cylons
who were trying to kill all the people, the lack of "foreigners"
would seem make foreign policy experience irrelevant, and rather
hard to come by.
On Palin's side, she is governor of a state with a large Eskimo
population, and a rather long border with Canada. And given
Alaska's reputation for odd people, I'd say she probably has more
experience dealing with different social groups than even a senator
from Chicago.
The main asset one needs in dealing with other cultures is an
appreciation of the fact that not everybody thinks the same way. On
that level, I don't think Obama has moved his mind out of Chicago
yet.
It might be inspired, but I am not sure the Hillary supporters
are going to be fooled,
OTOH there's the "We need to elect a woman, but why did it have to
be Hillary?" vote.
It just does not make ANY sense!
Whistler, are you by any chance walking by a graveyard?
BDB|8.30.08 @ 1:06PM|#
The more I think about it, the only state she really puts out of reach for Obama is Montana.
toddb|8.30.08 @ 1:29PM|#
Seems like an inspired choice to me...old white guy picks
someone that counters the age/minority issues. She is going to
appeal to independent voters as a D.C. outsider. The Hillary voters
weren't going to jump ship and vote Republican anyway, so they
aren't the female vote you are trolling for. The abortion issue is
the one that Dems will push as too extreme and Reps are already
spinning that she is not against ALL abortion but supports
reasonable restrictions (partial birth, minors without consent)
which puts her right in the sweet spot for most moderate
voters.
Down side: They will have to keep her off the stage with McC who
looks even more semi-dead standing next to her.
Franklin Harris|8.30.08 @ 2:28PM|#
Sorry, Nathan received the FIRST electoral college vote ever cast for a woman. I haven't forgotten Mondale-Ferraro.
Neither had I. But I was trying to!
BakedPenguin|8.30.08 @ 4:46PM|#
McCain is trying to have his conservative base cake and eat
his Hillary refugees cake too...
If he really wanted to get the PUMAs, he would have found a woman
who was pro-choice. More likely his campaign was trying to go after
undecided women, as well as trying to get social con support.
Jerome Cole|8.31.08 @ 7:20AM|#
"Liberals, Sodomites, Satan worshipers, and Mormons will be
shaking in their boots.
Unlikely. Liberals don't wear boots."
Don't Doc Martin's count? Lesbians, environmentalists, and
anarchists (The bad ones who torch SUVS, not the ones reading
Murray Rothbard) seem to really like them.
Then again I have been outside of the USA for nearly six years and
even when I was back in the States I seemed to be stuck on about
1996, so maybe times have changed.
What exactly are the "liberals" and commies wearing these days?
BDB|8.31.08 @ 12:34PM|#
"Then again I have been outside of the USA for nearly six years
and even when I was back in the States I seemed to be stuck on
about 1996, so maybe times have changed."
You don't want to come back, then. Trust me.
|8.31.08 @ 1:55PM|#
"Fiscal con - she killed the bridge to nowhere and sent federal
money back.(!) "
She was all for it, even saying the deal should be closed while the
Alaska Congressional delegation had pull, then when it became a
press boongodggle she killed it and sent it back.
James J.B.|9.1.08 @ 12:23AM|#
I always liked William Henry Harrison - His nicknane was "Old
Hickory" After dying of a cold they should have called him "Old
Sickory"
ZING!!!!!
Thanks I'll be here all week!
HotConflict|9.2.08 @ 1:33AM|#
Battlestar Galactica has been imitating real LIEF for a while
now.
The idea of terrorism in the show is an obvious example.
Check out this podcast on Battlestar Galactica and Islam!
http://www.hotconflict.com/blog/2007/11/battlestar-gala.html
|9.2.08 @ 10:59AM|#
"What exactly are the "liberals" and commies wearing these
days?"
Crocs
who had more experience, Edwards or Palin? why again are liberals
up in arms about 'experience'? Does Edwards as President scare you
less or more than Palin, he was on your ticket 4 years ago now.
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