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In case you're wondering if there really are a lot of people at Invesco
I guess in some way I weep for my nation that this many people can come out on a working day to hear some politician give a speech, let alone to hear two of New Jersey's most embarrassing exports (is Southside Johnny going to make a surprise appearance too?). Still, I have to concede: Barack Obama draws a crowd. Here are some shots of the more-than-a-mile-long crowd waiting to get into the acceptance event, and a hint of the kind of logistical support this thing requires:
Our own David Weigel and cinematic master Alex Manning are in the building, and will be bringing you full video and text coverage of the audacious hopefest. The rest of us can only look on in envy, or despair, or drunkenness.
shrike|8.28.08 @ 8:59PM|#
Don't worry, McCain and the lone GOP entertainer - Lee
Greenwood, will pack them in in Minnesota.
Well, they may have to dig up John Wayne's bloated corpse for lead
act - but they will pack them in.
|8.28.08 @ 9:10PM|#
I'm not a fan of Obama, but I don't see why it's a bad thing for people to come hear him speak.
|8.28.08 @ 9:10PM|#
If I was an entertainer, I would not want to be introduced as "Please welcome grammy award winner...." As soon as I hear those words, I mute the sound because I know it is going to suck.
|8.28.08 @ 9:12PM|#
You have to be pretty profoundly dumb to think it is bad dozens
of thousands of people would come to see a politician on a
weekday.
It is DEMOCRACY and a lively interesting type at that.
Would you prefer they stay home and don't care ?
tim|8.28.08 @ 9:18PM|#
"I guess in some way I weep for my nation that this many people
can come out on a working day to hear some politician give a
speech"
What? How fucking cynical are you? Regardless of Obama's politics -
I find it inspiring that this many people are going out on a work
day to hear a presidential candidate speak live. At least they they
are somewhat engaged in the process and not on their asses at home
watching Ugly Betty.
|8.28.08 @ 9:21PM|#
Would you prefer they stay home and don't care ?
Fuck yeah. Participation in the tyranny of the majority is not a
good thing.
|8.28.08 @ 9:29PM|#
"I guess in some way I weep for my nation that this many
people can come out on a working day to hear some politician give a
speech"
What? How fucking cynical are you?
Very. That's one of the best things about Reason
contributors.
The rest of us can only look on in envy, or despair, or
drunkenness.
Or some combination thereof.
Name and address withheld|8.28.08 @ 9:33PM|#
My millionaire boss doesn't have to wait in line. He pulls up in
a limo and gets into the express line, which pretty much describes
his week in Denver
He's a great guy and all, and I appreciate how it makesmy job so
much easier, but I guess there will always be two Americas.
Tim|8.28.08 @ 9:41PM|#
A fat chick bitching about her quadruple heart surgery sans health insurance doesn't garner my sympathy.
|8.28.08 @ 9:44PM|#
In case there isn't enough talk about celebrity in America,
here's some extra fare from England. And it¹s not about Obama, or
Paris, or Britney. It's about Kate Moss.
Today the British Museum announced that 'Siren,' a nearly $2.8
million, 110-pound solid gold statue of Kate will grace the Greek
sculpture collection. The sculptor, Mark Quinn, says it¹s the
largest gold statue made since the time of ancient Egypt.
I wonder if the Obama artists are getting any ideas ....
|8.28.08 @ 9:46PM|#
The rest of us can only look on in envy, or despair, or
drunkenness.
Smacky beat me to it. I didn't realize these things were mutually
exclusive.
|8.28.08 @ 9:48PM|#
Today the British Museum announced that 'Siren,' a nearly
$2.8 million, 110-pound solid gold statue of Kate will grace the
Greek sculpture collection. The sculptor, Mark Quinn...
Wait a minute. That guy doesn't sound Greek at all.
SIV|8.28.08 @ 9:51PM|#
If anyone was watching the convention in the last few minutes
they had a "real person" lamenting that they closed the picture
tube plant in Marion Indiana in 2004 where he had worked since
1973. He blames the GOP and says a foreigner is now doing his
job.
Barack Obama and the DemocRATS ought to pledge to return the
picture tube making industry to Marion.Marion could use a buggy
whip factory too. Mule plows, everybody needs mule plows...
Maybe Marion could score an edison cylinder record cutting
factory.
|8.28.08 @ 9:57PM|#
SIV - you Bush rednecks will have the stench of Bush on you for
many years - and you deserve every bit of it.
Bill Clinton now looks deserving of Mt. Rushmore in comparison
(qualifier used)
Anothony Quinn|8.28.08 @ 9:58PM|#
"Wait a minute. That guy doesn't sound Greek at all."
Well, I did play Zeus while I was impregnating 20 somethings with
my octogenarian wang.
|8.28.08 @ 9:58PM|#
Barack Obama and the DemocRATS ought to pledge to return the
picture tube making industry to Marion.Marion could use a buggy
whip factory too. Mule plows, everybody needs mule plows...
Maybe Marion could score an edison cylinder record cutting
factory.
Sure! After all that's what America promised.
|8.28.08 @ 10:04PM|#
...while I was impregnating 20 somethings with my
octogenarian wang.
Surely that's enough to make any man an honorary Greek. But all
this Mark Quinn dude has done is make a giant golden, heroin-chic
statue. I don't think he makes the cut.
|8.28.08 @ 10:13PM|#
At this point I have to conclude that sending a troupe of shit-flinging monkeys to Denver would have produced more useful reporting than the Reason crew has this past week.
Mr. Chartreuse|8.28.08 @ 10:14PM|#
[i]If anyone was watching the convention in the last few minutes
they had a "real person" lamenting that they closed the picture
tube plant in Marion Indiana in 2004 where he had worked since
1973. He blames the GOP and says a foreigner is now doing his
job.[/i]
They tuk ur jerb!
|8.28.08 @ 10:24PM|#
How could McCain vote with Bush 90% of the time when the president doesn't vote?
Barak Obama|8.28.08 @ 10:33PM|#
Ask not what you should do for your government, but rather, what can your govenment should do for you.
memphisto|8.28.08 @ 10:47PM|#
tim took the words right out of my mouth.
Smacky
Very. That's one of the [reasons libertarians are so
marginalized.]
FTFY
The Owners Manual|8.28.08 @ 11:24PM|#
I guess in some way I weep
Damn, Tim. Get back to us when you're over your period.
memphisto|8.28.08 @ 11:37PM|#
Sorry, The tim I agreed with was the "How fucking cynical are you?" tim, not the boob weeping for a country where people are involved in the political process.
Les|8.28.08 @ 11:45PM|#
not the boob weeping for a country where people are involved
in the political process.
I think he was weeping because a lot of those people really think
they're "involved in the political process." And there's a lot of
evidence to suggest that unless you're a politician, a lobbyist, or
a multi-millionaire, you're not "involved in the political
process."
memphisto|8.28.08 @ 11:51PM|#
Les
"I think he was weeping because a lot of those people really think
they're "involved in the political process."
I'm sorry. I can't find the place you are quoting from.
I thought he was just being snarky and immature. It may be that we
have lost control of our government, but I don't see how apathy is
a solution.
memphisto|8.28.08 @ 11:58PM|#
Tim
"A fat chick bitching about her quadruple heart surgery sans health
insurance doesn't garner my sympathy."
And they say libertarians are heartless;-)
(Obviously I'm having trouble keeping tim and Tim apart but from
the tone of the quote above I'd say that 'Tim' is Cavanaugh.)
Les|8.29.08 @ 12:42AM|#
(Obviously I'm having trouble keeping tim and Tim apart but
from the tone of the quote above I'd say that 'Tim' is
Cavanaugh.)
I'd be surprised as that's not really Tim's style. He may be
cynical, but he's not an asshole.
I'm sorry. I can't find the place you are quoting
from.
I wasn't quoting Tim, I was quoting your phrase, actually. I was
taking the liberty of guessing at why he might be so cynical and
there's no reason to think I got it right. Mostly I was projecting
my own beliefs that very, very few of the people lined up were
truly "involved in the political process."
It may be that we have lost control of our government, but I
don't see how apathy is a solution.
Refusing to join a gathering to reverently cheer a guy who's
changed his position on a variety of important issues in order to
raise his poll numbers doesn't equal apathy. In fact, it could be
argued that holding Obama accountable for his manipulative
salesmanship is more productive, more of a solution than cheering
him on regardless of what he says and does.
memphisto|8.29.08 @ 1:26AM|#
Les
Mostly I was projecting my own beliefs that very, very few of the
people lined up were truly "involved in the political
process."
Certainly it depends on the connotation of "involved". By involved
all I meant was that they were there for a political event. While I
agree that they (we) aren't in control, at least they are paying
attention and doing something. I was beginning to fear that the
population had given up. And honestly I can't remember anything
like this in my lifetime.
Cynical as I am, I just can't help but find it a little encouraging
for democracy (whether I like Obama or not) that almost 100K people
did come out on a worknight to hear a politician.
"Refusing to join a gathering to reverently cheer a guy who's
changed his position on a variety of important issues in order to
raise his poll numbers doesn't equal apathy."
Of course not. But sitting home and not paying attention does. And
at least they weren't doing that.
As far as changing positions to garner favor, (a) both (all?)
candidates have done it (whether for the polls or to gather support
from power players in the party) and (b) I don't see being
responsive to the will of the people is such a bad thing. (Likewise
with 'flip-flopping', show me a man who hasn't ever changed a
position and I'll show you a man who has never learned anything.)
Politics is compromise and elections are salesmenship. I don't find
it disengenuous that a man running to unite the country is
moderating his ideas somewhat. And after these years of
'compassionate conservitism that decrys nation building' I don't
trust much of what's said during an election.
Also, I don't think the people who were there were "just cheering
him regardless of what he says and does." That seems far more a
Republican trait to me. Anyway, this is actually the time for that.
Conventions are pep-rallies.
"Manipulative salesmanship"? Now who's not being cynical enough? I
honestly don't see how Republicans can say such things with a
straight face after the last two elections.
Remember, the real reason to vote for Obama is because the
Republicans can't be allowed to continue what they've done to the
country.
Les|8.29.08 @ 3:25AM|#
mephisto,
While I agree that they (we) aren't in control, at least they
are paying attention and doing something.
I guess that's the problem I have. I don't know what they're doing.
They're expressing themselves, and I'm all for that, no doubt. But
I get nervous when people cheer politicians. I think our elected
leaders, even the best, don't deserve cheering. The deserve polite
scrutiny, at best.
I was beginning to fear that the population had given
up.
I'll feel better about that when we see what the voter turnout is,
I suppose.
But sitting home and not paying attention does [equal apathy].
And at least they weren't doing that.
Well, going to hear the guy speak doesn't mean they're paying
attention. How many folks there are aware of the issues on which
Obama has changed his mind?
As far as changing positions to garner favor, (a) both (all?)
candidates have done it (whether for the polls or to gather support
from power players in the party) and (b) I don't see being
responsive to the will of the people is such a bad
thing.
(A) is no excuse for pandering. And in terms of (B), there's a
difference between being responsive to the will of the people and
pandering. When one year you're saying that inarguably failed
policies like our embargo on Cuba and marijuana prohibition need to
be changed, and the next year you defend the status quo on those
policies, that counts as pandering.
I think the reason the Founding Fathers created a Republic is
because sometimes the will of the people is flat out wrong. At
those times, it's the duty of our elected leaders to ignore the
will of the people.
(Likewise with 'flip-flopping', show me a man who hasn't ever
changed a position and I'll show you a man who has never learned
anything.)
Oh, I agree completely. But surely we can agree that Obama didn't
change his mind regarding marijuana and Cuba because he realized
that our current policies really are working.
I don't find it disengenuous that a man running to unite the
country is moderating his ideas somewhat.
If he's moderating his ideas from "practical" to "impractical,"
from "new and historically successful" to "old and historically
failed," I think "disingenuous" is the right word.
Also, I don't think the people who were there were "just
cheering him regardless of what he says and does." That seems far
more a Republican trait to me.
And many a Republican see it as a Democratic trait. I think the
fact is that there are loyalists on both sides who are more
interested in party and ideological victory than in practical
solutions to our problems. I see not a bit of difference between
people who cheer Hillary Clinton and people who cheer Bush. Both
are loyalists to their own emotional investments to the point where
they will cheer demonstrably dishonest, incompetent people.
"Manipulative salesmanship"? Now who's not being cynical
enough? I honestly don't see how Republicans can say such things
with a straight face after the last two elections.
Oh, I do hope you don't think I'm a Republican. I'm most certainly
not. But my understanding of politics and history has convinced me
that Democrats and Republicans are, first and foremost,
politicians. And all politicians are salesmen (and saleswomen). And
they all want to know what they have to do to get us in a car
today.
Remember, the real reason to vote for Obama is because the
Republicans can't be allowed to continue what they've done to the
country.
The Democrats have done a fine job in helping them every single
step of the way. That said, if I lived in a state that was up for
grabs, I'd vote for Obama (nose held, of course), because I do
utterly loathe what the Bush Administration has done. Fortunately,
I live in California, which Obama will easily take, so I have the
luxury of voting for someone who won't win, but who I can believe
in. I just have to figure out who that is!
Tim Cavanaugh|8.29.08 @ 10:29AM|#
For the record, Les pretty accurately described my thought process, with two caveats: I wasn't actually weeping and I am, in fact, an asshole.
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