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"Sickening, Utterly Worthless, Shameful Trash" Finally Gets British Release*
Almost thirty years after its release, the British Board of Film
Classification (BBFC) will allow Britons to view the crappy
historical epic/porn film Caligula—not because it is wrong
to censor the works of Malcolm MacDowell, but because the film is
now deemed of "historical interest."
The Telegraph has details:
It received a short run in the US but was never shown in Britain, after being banned by the BBFC. The film was also derided by some as "insanely pornographic".
Now it will finally be sold in DVD format on shop shelves after the official censor changed its mind.
Sue Clark from the BBFC said: "Given that Caligula is a film of historical interest, we felt we could pass it uncut."
Alex Agran, from the film's distributors Arrow Films, responded: "When it came back uncut, we were stunned."
Malcolm McDowell, who played the emporer in the film, said four years ago he was "outraged" by Guccione's decision to lace the film with hard porn.
He said: "I'm proud of the work I did in Caligula, there's no question about that. But there's all the raunchy stuff, the blatant, modern-day porn that Bob introduced into the film after we'd finished shooting.
"That to me was an absolutely outrageous betrayal and quite unprecedented. Frankly, it showed that Bob had no class whatsoever."
Full story.
Horrifying, though safe for work,
clips from Caligula.
*Film critic Roger Ebert's judgment of the the original, uncut
version.
Old Bull Lee|8.26.08 @ 1:57PM|#
If you take out the extra porn, it still isn't that much of a
movie. There were plenty of other things that went wrong with
it.
I don't care, I like it anyway. The added lesbian scene is one of
best lesbian scenes I've ever watched. Plus Helen Mirren flesh adds
quality to anything.
Urkobold™|8.26.08 @ 2:02PM|#
THE URKOBOLD WISHES TO ASK A QUESTION: IS HELEN MIRREN FULLY REVEALED IN THIS MOVIE?
|8.26.08 @ 2:05PM|#
I like McDowell but he, Gielgud, Mirren, and the rest should really stop pretending they didn't know what they were getting into. His little fisting scene at the wedding should have tipped him off from the get-go. Oh, and the fact that it was produced by, uh, Bob Guccione.
|8.26.08 @ 2:13PM|#
Episiarch,
I don't know--it's not like those actors all have had a history of
doing this sort of film (don't forget O'Toole, by the way). I think
they thought they were pushing the edge a bit, but the final film
must've been quite the shocker.
Other Matt|8.26.08 @ 2:13PM|#
The added lesbian scene is one of best lesbian scenes I've
ever watched.
No kidding, one word, "Wow". Christ, has it been 30 years already?
Where does the time go?
|8.26.08 @ 2:15PM|#
I saw a play of Caligula in Old San Juan, PR about 15 years ago.
All of the actors were completely naked during the orgy scenes
(actual sex didn't take place though). The play took place in the
courtyard of an old Spanish building; I wondered if they were
cold...
I went with some friends- one guy's girlfriend was in the play and
he was just so proud of her (and horny).
|8.26.08 @ 2:23PM|#
Really? Her?
No. Old Bull Lee is a freak. He probably watches Airtight
Grannies.
|8.26.08 @ 2:27PM|#
At least that level of sexual depravity makes a degree of sense in the hedonistic court of Caligula, as opposed to the dorm room of two girls who just realize they don't have enough cash to pay the pizza delivery guy...
Jimmy|8.26.08 @ 2:31PM|#
"THE URKOBOLD WISHES TO ASK A QUESTION: IS HELEN MIRREN FULLY
REVEALED IN THIS MOVIE?"
She bears her soul, if that's what you mean.
|8.26.08 @ 2:31PM|#
it's not like those actors all have had a history of doing
this sort of film
O Rly? McDowell did Cat
People after all. Fun side note: I have an ex who looked
exactly
like Ms. Kinski in that film. Watching it with her was a
trip.
.jpg){kind=link}
Dagny T.|8.26.08 @ 2:32PM|#
He probably watches Airtight Grannies.
Not sure why I Googled that. Well, I'm all grown up now.
|8.26.08 @ 2:33PM|#
McDowell is probably the freakiest of the bunch, but no, even he probably was shocked by the final film.
Dagny T.|8.26.08 @ 2:40PM|#
Epi,
She looked like that and you let her go? Fool.
Never seen it, but per Wikipedia, Ed Begley Jr. makes a cameo. Now
that's hot.
Old Bull Lee|8.26.08 @ 2:40PM|#
Mirren is pretty hot for her age:
http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&q=helen+mirren+beach&btnG=Search+Images
but it's not like a preference I have or anything.
You guys do realize she was in her mid-30s in this movie,
right?
|8.26.08 @ 2:41PM|#
It's been about a zillion years since I watched that, but it was
obvious that the hardcore scenes were very clumsily edited into the
final cut. MacDowell & Co. certainly contributed plenty of
softcore to the film, however, so his complaints ring a bit
hollow.
More on topic, it's rather amusing that the Brits do stuff like
this and then make fun of Americans for being uptight
fundamentalists.
|8.26.08 @ 2:42PM|#
"When it came back uncut, we were stunned."
What, they were expecting it to be circumcised?
Franklin Harris|8.26.08 @ 2:46PM|#
I like McDowell but he, Gielgud, Mirren, and the rest should really stop pretending they didn't know what they were getting into.
Some of McDowell's scenes are worse than the hardcore footage.
|8.26.08 @ 2:48PM|#
She looked like that and you let her go? Fool.
Besides sharing Kinski's looks she also shared the German-heritage
nuttiness. Grandma was a psycho Hitler Youth participant
(literally, from Deutchland), Uncle C. was schizophrenic, the list
goes on.
You guys do realize she was in her mid-30s in this movie,
right?
Still not impressive. Not bad, but not impressive.
Franklin Harris|8.26.08 @ 2:52PM|#
Yep, I think I've seen most, all uncut, of the films on the infamous list of "video nasties" banned by the British Courts.
Kinskifan|8.26.08 @ 2:52PM|#
She looked like that and you let her go? Fool.
Besides sharing Kinski's looks she also shared the German-heritage
nuttiness. Grandma was a psycho Hitler Youth participant
(literally, from Deutchland), Uncle C. was schizophrenic, the list
goes on.
Since it involves "she", aren't any comments on nuttiness
essentially redundant?
Russ 2000|8.26.08 @ 2:53PM|#
but it was obvious that the hardcore scenes were very
clumsily edited into the final cut.
The entire movie was clumsy.
I always thought Ebert's "sickening" review and the "ban" gave this
movie more business than it would have done without them. It's not
trash because it's sickening and worthless, it's a movie that tries
very hard to be sicking and violent and pornographic and winds up
being dull and boring. I've seen plenty of poorly done sick/violent
and sick/porno movies and none were as completely and utterly
boring as Caligula.
Franklin Harris|8.26.08 @ 2:54PM|#
Besides sharing Kinski's looks she also shared the German-heritage nuttiness. Grandma was a psycho Hitler Youth participant (literally, from Deutchland), Uncle C. was schizophrenic, the list goes on.
Ah, the German psychosis. Been there, done that. Best that you got
away from her while you could.
Dagny T.|8.26.08 @ 2:56PM|#
German-heritage nuttiness.
You go for the head cases, huh? I seem to remember a shrink in need
of therapy, among others?
|8.26.08 @ 2:57PM|#
Yep, I think I've seen most, all uncut, of the films on the
infamous list of "video nasties" banned by the British
Courts.
Dude, WTF? They banned Possession? And Tenebrae
but not Suspiria?
Oh man, I had forgotten about Cannibal Apocalypse. John
Saxon rules.
|8.26.08 @ 3:01PM|#
You go for the head cases, huh? I seem to remember a shrink
in need of therapy, among others?
It seems to be head cases who do a fantastic job of hiding that
they are head cases. Or I'm an idiot. Which is definitely
possible.
|8.26.08 @ 3:06PM|#
did you ever consider that you're the common element in all
this, Epi? Maybe you drive them to be headcases...
And who are you kidding? You and SugarFree are each other's One and
Only.
|8.26.08 @ 3:07PM|#
The trailer for Gore Vidal's Caligula is brilliant.
http://www.veoh.com/videos/v336120kqxq5xRN?confirmed=1
|8.26.08 @ 3:15PM|#
You go for the head cases, huh? I seem to remember a shrink
in need of therapy, among others?
As I can attest, and Epi too I'm sure, they are by far, the most
fun in bed.
I can do one better, Epi. My ex looked like a young Jackie Kennedy
with bigger tits and was half German, half Persian. Nucking Futs on
a galactic scale. I still half-expect to stumble across her on an
amateur porno web site one day.
What's the tie-in to this thread? She liked Caligula.
|8.26.08 @ 3:16PM|#
I'm proud of the work I did in Caligula, there's no question
about that. But there's all the raunchy stuff, the blatant,
modern-day porn that Bob introduced into the film after we'd
finished shooting.
When "the work I did" includes a scene where you shoves your fist
in another mans ass, then you should really avoid making statements
like this.
|8.26.08 @ 3:18PM|#
If you really want a good dramitization of the history of the Claudian dynasty go rent the BBC I Claudius mini series. It is really good and stands well to this day. If you really want some good Europorn and have a taste for Helen Mirren, rent The Cook The Thief His Wife and Her Lover. It is a lot more watchable than Caligula and you get all the Helen Mirren you could ever want. If you really want good europorn sans Mirren, go rent The Dreamers. Eva Green is God's gift to man. All and all, I really don't see the point of ever watching Caligula.
Bingo|8.26.08 @ 3:23PM|#
half German, half Persian.
It's like a eugenics program for unbelievably hot and completely
insane chicks!
|8.26.08 @ 3:23PM|#
If you really want a good dramitization of the history of
the Claudian dynasty go rent the BBC I Claudius mini series. It is
really good and stands well to this day.
I agree. And it has Captain Picard when he was a boot ensign right
out of the academy (bet you didn't know he was that old!)
|8.26.08 @ 3:24PM|#
Episiarch! Wrong again. Helen Mirren was no slouch. As for
today, she's aged better than just about anyone in Hollywood
without major reconstruction. Although, it is true, we have the
technology.
By the way, forget about the actors. What about Gore Vidal? I'm a
fan of his classical age historical fiction (Julian,
Creation) and bought the Caligula novel expecting
something similar. Wrong! Hard to believe how much pornographic one
can make mere text. I don't think the book was actually Vidal's,
incidentally. It must've been a novelization of the movie, based on
the script.
|8.26.08 @ 3:32PM|#
Nucking Futs on a galactic scale.
The thing is that I now try to avoid the crazies because I've
learned my lesson, but for some reason, it doesn't work. I just end
up with different kinds of crazy. Maybe it is me.
|8.26.08 @ 3:39PM|#
Proud of his work? He may be the only person involved with that
film wh would say that.
When I first saw the move I was convinced that everyone involved,
except Danilo Donati, had been deliberately thumbing their nose at
Guccione. That's especially true of Tinto Brass (who has made
several films I like) and Gore Vidal.
After reading a little bit about the making of the film, I'm
convinced that's what happened.
|8.26.08 @ 3:47PM|#
Maybe it is me.
No, no, it's not you. It's just inevitable.
Just man up and enjoy the fringe benefits before her meds kick in.
And yes, this is why god invented bourbon.
Dagny T.|8.26.08 @ 3:47PM|#
I just end up with different kinds of crazy. Maybe it is
me.
I kind of hope that's the case. Otherwise, it leaves us with the
uncomfortable dichotomy of us ladies either being hot and crazy, or
not and not. Not sure which sounds worse.
|8.26.08 @ 3:52PM|#
Russ 2000 has it right. Saw the damn thing when it first came out. It was boring. Behind the Green Door was Oscar material when compared to Caligula.
Paul|8.26.08 @ 3:57PM|#
"insanely pornographic".
I would think that Ass Hunters 3 would be a little more
'insanely pornographic'. Can one not get pornography in the UK? Or
are only mainstream movies that push the boundaries ripe for
banning?
|8.26.08 @ 4:00PM|#
Otherwise, it leaves us with the uncomfortable dichotomy of
us ladies either being hot and crazy, or not and not. Not sure
which sounds worse
Hot and a little bit crazy--just a little--is good. However, a
little crazy unfortunately often changes into "this goes to 11", so
it's a hard thing to find.
For instance, Isabelle Adjani in Possession
(banned in the UK!): too crazy.
|8.26.08 @ 4:03PM|#
The thing is that I now try to avoid the crazies because
I've learned my lesson, but for some reason, it doesn't work. I
just end up with different kinds of crazy. Maybe it is
me.
Duh?
Other Matt|8.26.08 @ 4:04PM|#
The thing is that I now try to avoid the crazies because
I've learned my lesson, but for some reason, it doesn't work. I
just end up with different kinds of crazy. Maybe it is
me.
Maybe you're just getting a big enough statistical sample to see
the truth of the situation.
Could be worse, you could be hooked on redheads like me.
Concur with the bourbon comment, I do end up walking around the
house about three days a week going "Why is all the rum gone?!"
|8.26.08 @ 4:08PM|#
I think a clarification is in order. There's crazy, which can be
applied to most women, and there's psycho, which applies to a
certain class of women.
I've dated psycho bitches from hell, and I think it's important to
not confuse them with the general population of women at large.
|8.26.08 @ 4:08PM|#
go rent the BBC I Claudius mini series
I think I was about 7 or 8 when that series came on PBS. I watched
every show. I guess my parents let me watch it because it was
supposed to be educational or something. I just watched it again
this past month. I still get surprised when I see Derek Jacobi and
he isn't fat and limping around.
Isabelle Adjani you say Episiarch? I think I will have to add that
one to my Netflix queue. She has the kind of crazy I find
irresistable.
|8.26.08 @ 4:11PM|#
Oh, I wanted to say, along the lines of what others have said here, that I was a hormone-flooded teenage boy when Caligula came out. I saw it in a German kino that let you smoke and drink. It was really the perfect environment to see a movie like that and I hated it. It was the first time I had ever seen an "adult" movie and realized just how gross and boring they could be.
|8.26.08 @ 4:18PM|#
I've dated psycho bitches from hell
Today, we are all that guy. Agreed on the clarification.
Psycho is fun as hell, but mercifully, flares out quickly. Crazy is
a slow burn that grinds you down, incrementally and steadily, over
time. My tequila and beer intake is higher than ever after 12 years
of marriage.
How did men do this before internet porn?
Dagny T.|8.26.08 @ 4:21PM|#
For instance, Isabelle Adjani in Possession (banned in the
UK!): too crazy.
Until I followed your link, I thought the Gwyneth Paltrow movie
was being referred to. No tentacle creatures in that one,
though.
We (blech) Millennials have so much to catch up on.
|8.26.08 @ 4:31PM|#
We (blech) Millennials have so much to catch up
on.
I would say that it would be far better for us to make our own
disturbingly pornographic movies. Much more fun for the producers
and it would greatly speed the gradual amnesia that will finally
save us all from the horrors that the Baby Boom generation
unleashed upon us all. And really, who *doesn't* want that?
|8.26.08 @ 4:35PM|#
"I agree. And it has Captain Picard when he was a boot ensign
right out of the academy (bet you didn't know he was that
old!)"
He had hair back then to. He was the perfect Sejanus. I read both
of the Graves novels and loved them. Usually when I like a book I
can't get into the movie because the characters in the movie just
don't match my expectations. I can't watch any of the BBC versions
of All Creatures Great and Small for this reason. I just love the
characters too much and can't tolerate seeing them differently than
I imagine them to be. But I Claudius hit it perfectly. Every
character in the series is exactly or close to exactly how I
imagined them in the book.
|8.26.08 @ 4:40PM|#
I liked both the Graves' books and the BBC series. However, Livia almost certainly was nothing like the character in the book. Augustus, if anything, was more ruthless prior to marrying Livia than after. Still, Graves did a great job, and quite a bit of his story is historically accurate.
|8.26.08 @ 4:44PM|#
Graves did a great job, and quite a bit of his story is
historically accurate
Because he ripped off Suetonius as much as he could. Not that
there's anything wrong with that. Suetonius is like The
National Enquirer of the Early Empire.
|8.26.08 @ 4:46PM|#
"However, Livia almost certainly was nothing like the character
in the book."
Livia was evil in the book. She was a shrew who poisoned Germanicus
and everyone else between Tiberious and the thrown. The only good
thing Claudius says about Livia in the entire book was that she
always made appointments to the provinces on the basis of merit.
That is it. In every other sense, she is an evil shrew.
If there is any character that deviates from the book to the series
it is Augustus. Augustus is a complete dolt in the series. In the
book he is more formidable but still totally dominated by his evil
wife.
|8.26.08 @ 4:49PM|#
Sorry, John, I wasn't clear. What I meant was that the historical Livia was nothing like the Livia in the book or in the TV series.
|8.26.08 @ 4:53PM|#
Pro,
Making Livia so obviously evil is the one real liberty Graves took
with the history. He did it I think to make a better story. The
coniving matriarch and the dottering hen pecked patriarch makes for
a good story. Also, both Setoneus and Tacitus hint at Livia being
guilty of the crimes Graves accuses her of, they just don't offer
any proof. So, it might be true or Livia might be a victim of
slander. We will never know. But Graves doesn't give Livia any
worse of a treatment than Procopius gave Theodora.
|8.26.08 @ 4:59PM|#
Augustus clearly did some bad things and blaming Nancy Reagan--I mean, Livia--for his crimes is a way of not directly condemning the Deified Augustus.
Paul|8.26.08 @ 5:08PM|#
Psycho is fun as hell, but mercifully, flares out
quickly.
Psycho isn't always fun as hell. It starts out fun, and then when
you find yourself in a surreal setting being interrogated by police
by no fault of your own... let's just say that psycho loses its
charm.
|8.26.08 @ 5:12PM|#
Most likely, the real people in the Julio-Claudian dynasty were
very little like they were portrayed by Suetonius and Cassius Dio.
Ancient historians not only had political axes to grind, but
purposely created exaggerated accounts for purposes of
entertainment and moral instruction. The modern concept of
historiography was basically foreign to them.
Further, Suetonius and Cassius Dio wrote many decades after the
fact--over a century, in the case of Cassius Dio--and were working
from secondary sources themselves. The primary sources on Caligula
are limited.
|8.26.08 @ 5:19PM|#
"Most likely, the real people in the Julio-Claudian dynasty were
very little like they were portrayed by Suetonius and Cassius
Dio."
I think that goes a bit too far. Yes they were writing for
entertainment, but they were not that far removed from the events.
They could certainly get away with exaggeration but only to an
extent. It is difficult to imagine that they could have portrayed
Nero or Caligula as they did had both of them been sane, competent
rulers. Was Germanicus the irreproachable figure that Tacitus makes
him out to be? Considering that is progeny included both Caligula
and Nero, I highly doubt it. But he was most certainly a good
soldier and well thought of by the Romans at the time or Tacitus
couldn't have held him up to such high esteem and still been
believed.
I think the characters in Tacitus and Cassuius Dio are probably a
lot like the Hollywood versions of Kennedy or Roosevelt are today.
Dramatized but with a central kernel of truth.
|8.26.08 @ 5:23PM|#
Could be worse, you could be hooked on redheads like
me.
Yeah, I've got that problem too.
If we ever meet, I'll buy you a pint and we can swap crazy Redhead
stories.
Franklin Harris|8.26.08 @ 6:43PM|#
Dagny T. wrote:
I kind of hope that's the case. Otherwise, it leaves us with the uncomfortable dichotomy of us ladies either being hot and crazy, or not and not. Not sure which sounds worse.
In my case, I seem to be attracted to a bundle of qualities that
seem to be highly correlated with craziness.
And in my most recent folly, that also included her having an
Internet handle take from an Ayn Rand novel. So you could be hot
and crazy. Just sayin'.
Franklin Harris|8.26.08 @ 6:47PM|#
Hot and a little bit crazy--just a little--is good. However, a little crazy unfortunately often changes into "this goes to 11", so it's a hard thing to find.
For instance, Isabelle Adjani in Possession (banned in the UK!): too crazy.
Oh, yeah. Too crazy even for me in that one. And that's coming from
someone who thinks most of Asia Argento's roles are just the right
amount of crazy.
Franklin Harris|8.26.08 @ 6:49PM|#
Helen Mirren was no slouch. As for today, she's aged better than just about anyone in Hollywood without major reconstruction.
She amazingly made Ayn Rand hot. 'Nuff said.
|8.26.08 @ 6:54PM|#
And that's coming from someone who thinks most of Asia
Argento's roles are just the right amount of crazy
My friend is friends with Dario and he was doing a documentary on
him during the filming of Two Evil Eyes. Asia was there as
a kid and is in some of the pictures--and she has a huge honking
schnozz. She must have gotten a nose job.
Franklin Harris|8.26.08 @ 6:58PM|#
If you really want some good Europorn and have a taste for Helen Mirren, rent The Cook The Thief His Wife and Her Lover. It is a lot more watchable than Caligula and you get all the Helen Mirren you could ever want.
Unfortunately, the Region 1 DVD of The Cook The Thief His Wife
and Her Lover is out of print and going for upwards of $60
used on Amazon. Fortunately, I bought that DVD right before it went
OOP.
For the record, Mirren is sexiest when evil, as in John Boorman's
Excalibur.
Dagny T.|8.26.08 @ 7:01PM|#
And in my most recent folly, that also included her having
an Internet handle take from an Ayn Rand novel. So you could be hot
and crazy. Just sayin'.
Franklin Harris,
Not to put too fine a point on it, or anything, eh? ;)
Yeah, (perhaps unfortunately) I suspect that is where I
fit in on that continuum.
Franklin Harris|8.26.08 @ 7:03PM|#
Oh man, I had forgotten about Cannibal Apocalypse. John Saxon rules.
I met Saxon last year. He's a lot shorter than you'd expect, only
an inch taller than me.
B|8.26.08 @ 9:58PM|#
"Malcolm McDowell, who played the emporer in the film, said four
years ago he was "outraged" by Guccione's decision to lace the film
with hard porn."
I know I would be totally fucking stunned if Bob Guccione, of all
people, decided to put porn in a film.
|8.27.08 @ 12:23AM|#
I could have sworn that Helen M got completely nekkid in that
movie. Maybe I'm just thinking of the end, where Caligula was
carrying her corpse down the street and her lady parts were
flapping in the breeze. It's been a long time since I saw it.
John Saxon's face disturbs me. He's weird looking.
Franklin Harris|8.27.08 @ 1:51AM|#
Helen Mirren is nude in Caligula, breasts, at least. But you are confusing the end of the film with the scene earlier on, when Caligula drags around the naked corpse of his sister, played by Teresa Ann Savoy, who also starred in another Tinto Brass film, the 1976 Nazisploitation flick Salon Kitty.
|8.27.08 @ 8:20AM|#
Trailer
For a Remake Of Gore Vidal's Caligula
NSFW, but funny. Saw it for the first time at the Whitney's
Biennial. Also when I uttered the line "A naked chick eatin'
cornflakes? Now that's art!" and caused my brother-in-law to run
into a sculpture with his face. (Sculpture unhurt, face
unimproved.)
|8.27.08 @ 5:53PM|#
Often when guys generalize women and dismiss them as crazy or
mentally ill, it's just a cover for having been dumped by them.
What probably happened was that Epi's hot foreign psychologist
girlfriend wised up to his bullshit misogynistic attitude and
dumped his ass. I bet that's what really happened.
It's ok, Epi, now you have a network of other pathetic guys here on
the internet who will decry and bash women and their sinister and
insane ways alongside you, in lieu of a girlfriend. Cold comfort,
but it's something.
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