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...And Arizona Makes it 20
The 20th state, that is, to pass a statute or resolution announcing non-compliance with the REAL ID Act. I've just been told that Gov. Janet Napolitano (D, and a possible Obama running mate) signed off on House Bill 2677. From the Arizona Republic, a little background from when the House sent Napolitano the bill.
State compliance is voluntary, but individuals will be required to carry identification that meets Real ID standards to board commercial flights or enter federal buildings. The program's implementation has already been delayed until the end of 2009.
Napolitano spokeswoman Jeanine L'Ecuyer said whether the governor will sign the bill is essentially a moot point given the lack of movement regarding the program.
"Real ID doesn't happen without the feds paying for it," L'Ecuyer said. "Real ID isn't going anywhere."
Arizona's home to my favorite or second-favorite anti-REAL ID coalition, including, as it does, members of the ACLU, pols from both parties, and anti-RFID activist Katherine Albrecht.
robc|6.17.08 @ 3:09PM|#
You know, this is the kind of thing that never passes without the 17th amendment. Thats the senator one right? The progessive era amendments all run together to me.
Ironic|6.17.08 @ 3:14PM|#
"State compliance is voluntary, but individuals will be required
to carry identification that meets Real ID standards to board
commercial flights or enter federal buildings."
A federal courthouse is a federal building. Does this mean I could
not be changed with a federal crime if I do not have a "Real
ID?"
Elemenope|6.17.08 @ 3:21PM|#
robc --
It was always a choice between rampant fat-cat corruption (that
would put today's to shame) and base panderers being made into
Senators. I still am not sure which one I prefer.
And yes, it was the Seventeenth.
|6.17.08 @ 3:21PM|#
Hah, Montana was among the first to say "apply oral suction to my love nub" to the federal government.
|6.17.08 @ 3:22PM|#
The federalistas will invoke highway funding extortion to get
their way, just like they did to raise the drinking age to
21.
/If only the states showed such resolve regarding the war on some
drugs.
|6.17.08 @ 3:34PM|#
Awwww....aren't you guys being a little too tough on this thing-after all, the purpose of the Real ID is to make sure that no Arabians with box cutters board a plane without proof of who they are?
YMNGH|6.17.08 @ 3:39PM|#
"Awwww....aren't you guys being a little too tough on this
thing-after all, the purpose of the Real ID is to make sure that no
Arabians with box cutters board a plane without proof of who they
are?"
For some reason I am reminded of a scene from The Life of Brian.
Brian is caught by a Roman Authority writing anti-Roman graffiti on
a wall and the authority chastises him for not using correct Latin.
He forces him to right that phrase over and over again on the wall
in correct Latin.
Taktix®|6.17.08 @ 3:45PM|#
We might be able to credit Sheriff Joe Arpiao as the sole reason
for Arizona's non-compliance.
If that asshole was running rampant in your state, you
wouldn't want him checking you papers either.
Fuck that guy. Arizona stories make me mad because the remind of
that douchebag, even if it's good news...
|6.17.08 @ 3:46PM|#
liberty mike, either you're very confused about your political positions or you forgot the winky [;-)].
|6.17.08 @ 3:46PM|#
The states are balking because of the costs. If the feds decide to pick up the tab, Real ID will become a reality.
|6.17.08 @ 3:50PM|#
"""The federalistas will invoke highway funding extortion to get
their way, just like they did to raise the drinking age to
21."""
They found a different way this time, by invoking their ability to
keep you from flying. I'm not really concerned about being banned
from federal buildings.
robc|6.17.08 @ 3:51PM|#
elemenope,
It was always a choice between rampant fat-cat corruption (that
would put today's to shame) and base panderers being made into
Senators. I still am not sure which one I prefer.
It was fat-cat corruption that also checked the power of the
feds.
Thats an easy call.
Douglas Adams|6.17.08 @ 3:57PM|#
"They found a different way this time, by invoking their ability
to keep you from flying. I'm not really concerned about being
banned from federal buildings."
All you have to do to fly is to fall down and miss the ground.
Colin|6.17.08 @ 4:02PM|#
If you're required to have a realid to get on a plane, what does
it matter if your state stands against it?
Either you get the id yourself, or you don't get on a plane.
For many, this won't be an option.
Taktix®|6.17.08 @ 4:05PM|#
Either you get the id yourself, or you don't get on a
plane.
For many, this won't be an option.
This is all just a back door attempt to increase Amtrack
ridership.
Ironic|6.17.08 @ 4:06PM|#
Can I use an Embassy of Heaven driver's License to fly?
http://www.embassyofheaven.com/catalog/Vehicles.htm
stuartl|6.17.08 @ 4:09PM|#
From a civil liberty perspective, what is so onerous about the
real ID requirements? ID to get on a plane has been required for
years. There is nothing in Real ID that hasn't been on my VA
drivers license for 20+ years. From wikipedia:
Each card must include, at a minimum, the person's full legal name, signature, date of birth, gender, driver's license or identification card number. It also includes a photograph of the person's face and the address of principal residence. It is required to have physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes.
The cost of the technology levied on states may be high, which is
why the states object. Again from Wikipedia:
It will use common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements (the details of which are not spelled out, but left to the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of Transportation and the states, to regulate).
YMNGH|6.17.08 @ 4:15PM|#
"From a civil liberty perspective, what is so onerous about the
real ID requirements? ID to get on a plane has been required for
years. There is nothing in Real ID that hasn't been on my VA
drivers license for 20+"
Income tax has existed for 20+ years.
Wiretapping has existed for 20+ years.
The war on drugs has existed for 20+ years.
The war on poverty has existed for 20+ years.
Congress has violated the Constitution on many levels for 20+
years.
We have seen an erosion of liberty and privacy for 20+ years.
SIV|6.17.08 @ 4:17PM|#
So these States are opposing it as an unfunded mandate, not on civil liberties grounds. If there was fed $$$ available for compliance they would happily build gulags, death camps, and implant RFID chips into every resident
|6.17.08 @ 4:22PM|#
What it means is that if your stated doesn't comply, you'll need a passport in order to fly on domestic flights.
stuartl|6.17.08 @ 4:23PM|#
YMNGH -- From that perspective Real ID is actually an
improvement. My new license no longer includes my height, weight
(thankfully), hair and eye color.
SIV -- exactly.
|6.17.08 @ 4:26PM|#
I may be confused but not about my political positions.
Confused about your true identity?
About differential equations?
About your sexual orientation?
Orange Line Special|6.17.08 @ 4:28PM|#
Weigel/Reason fails to point out that most of the opposition to
RealID isn't from PrivacySupporters, but from supporters of illegal
activity.
Weigel/Reason also continues to fail to understand the completely
ineffectual support for anarchy inevitably leads to more
authoritarianism.
miche|6.17.08 @ 4:29PM|#
I flew yesterday without a valid ID. I lost it while drunk in Vegas. I had a first class ticket so was already in a short security line but there was nothing easier than the secondary search to fly without ID. I was the only person using that particular conveyor belt and I didn't even have to remove the 1 quart Ziploc bag of liquids from my bag. I think I will "lose" my ID before every domestic flight from now on.
|6.17.08 @ 4:29PM|#
Stuartl, I'll let your state government answer.
From the governor's taskforce on the Real ID act.
http://www.dmvnow.com/webdoc/temp/pdf/realidreport.pdf)
"The Task Force asked me, their Chairman, to express our concerns
about the
REAL ID Act. In summary, the REAL ID Act presents challenges in at
least three areas.
The Real ID act will have significant financial impact on the
Commonwealth and will
change the way Virginians obtain driver's licenses and ID
cards-documents that are
critical to everyone's way of life. Implementation of the Act could
also raise privacy
concerns.
• Financial: REAL ID will be expensive to implement. Because the
Federal
government has provided almost no funding, that financial burden
will fall
directly on the Commonwealth and its taxpayers.
• Individuals: Every driver or ID card holder and every applicant
for a new
driver's license or ID card will have to wait in line much longer
at the DMV,
and provide significantly more paperwork to obtain a driver's
license or ID
card. Indeed, many legitimate applicants for driver's licenses or
ID cards will
not possess the paperwork necessary to obtain a REAL ID license or
ID card.
Renewal by Internet or by mail, which have become expected
conveniences,
will be impossible or at least unavailable to Virginia residents
for many years.
• Privacy: Every step must be taken to ensure that implementation
of the Act
does not imperil Virginians'. Implementation could pose problems
for police
officers and victims of domestic violence and sexual assault if
residential
addresses must appear on their driver's licenses and ID
cards."
Wiki is for lazy people who don't want to search for real
information.
Ironic|6.17.08 @ 4:34PM|#
Stuartl, this is far from an improvement. States are required to maintain databases of information about their citizen-slaves and residents and then share this personal information with all other states. So not only will my local elected mafia have information about me but the elected mafia of every other state as well.
|6.17.08 @ 4:42PM|#
For the record, I'm not as opposed to the identification as I am
the federal database it will be connected to.
I would bet that the real ID is a federal ID that will be
administered by the states. I'll go out on a limb and guess that
your federal ID number will be your state ID number with a prefix
or suffix that identifies the state it was issued. Say my ID# is
7786321 and the code for NY is 34, them my federal number will be
34-7786321 or 7796321-34
SIV|6.17.08 @ 4:46PM|#
TV,
I'm glad VA is concerned with the privacy of it's police officers.A
nod to abused women as well.
No one else deserves "privacy".
|6.17.08 @ 4:47PM|#
I don't see the airline industry standing idly by while they
have to refuse service to (ie, refuse money from) entire state
populations.
Somebody's going to have to blink in this standoff.
Zeb|6.17.08 @ 4:47PM|#
Drivers licenses should be for driving. They are not beer licenses, they are not getting on an airplane licenses.
|6.17.08 @ 4:48PM|#
On a related topic, I'm driving six hours to see a client next
week. It's only a one hour flight, but because of all the TSA
bullshit, I'm driving instead. I can bring my real shaving kit, not
that ziplock back with the tiny toothpaste tube. No one is going to
pull me out of line for a strip search, or confiscate more knife,
or make me put my laptop in a separate bin, or ask what piece of
electronic equipment is. I don't have to show up at the airport two
hours early to stand it line.
For longer trips I will have to fly, which means I'll have to get a
Real ID when they come out. But when I do, it will be used ONLY for
flying, and kept in a shielded envelope.
|6.17.08 @ 4:48PM|#
liberty mike, you are aware of Dr Paul's position on RealID, are you not? Are you daring to reject the positions of "the greatest politician since Jefferson", as Lew Rockwell put it?
Ironic|6.17.08 @ 4:51PM|#
SIV, in Ohio if most people get killed the person who committed the crime will face life in prison. If a police officer gets killed the person who committed that crime will face the death penalty. It shows you the priorities of some states.
First Litte Pig|6.17.08 @ 4:52PM|#
I heard a very disturbing thing today related to RealId. A
friend of mine went to the MVD (DMV everywhere else) to renew his
license. As he was waiting the woman in front of him was getting
her photo taken and the civil servant kept asking her to keep her
hair out of her face. This went on for a bit and my friend made a
comment that this must for future facial recognition programs....
the civil servant told him that it was and that rather than getting
his ID that day they now had to send all the information to
Washington and he would be getting his new one in a couple of
weeks.
I assume that his story is true and if so, are we facing a new
requirement under RealId (the facial recognition) about which we
had been previously unaware? Or did I not get the memo?
|6.17.08 @ 4:54PM|#
SIV, par for the course! It's all about police and victims, everyone else can take a hike.
Future Freedom FIghter|6.17.08 @ 4:55PM|#
I guess I will wear Spock ears and a clown nose the day I start the revolution.
|6.17.08 @ 4:56PM|#
Ironic, Priorty of some states? In almost all states, assulting an officer is a greater offense than assulting your average Joe.
Ironic|6.17.08 @ 4:57PM|#
Trickyvic, true, we have to protect those who enforce the laws that oppress us.
stuartl|6.17.08 @ 5:01PM|#
Wiki is for lazy people who don't want to search for real
information.
Was the insult really necessary? It was an honest question. I have
a job that requires most of my attention and normally only have
time to research the cliff notes version (I have no clue how
frequent posters like joe hold down a job). And besides the pain in
the ass, there is nothing new for a VA driver in your four
bullets.
Ironic, thanks. Of course the govt could probably purchase the same
information from a commercial database used to target
customers.
FL Pig, the facial recognition SW must be fairly new, I took my son
to a VA DMV to pick up a driver's license a few months ago and he
had no problem with the long hair covering his face. I do, but that
is another story.
miche|6.17.08 @ 5:06PM|#
First Little Pig:
Just renewed my little one's passport and she had to pull her hair
back and remove her necklace and earrings. The passport came in and
to add another level of ridiculousness to it all, it's full of
liberty quotes, scenic pics of America and a RFID chip.
Ironic|6.17.08 @ 5:07PM|#
"Ironic, thanks. Of course the govt could probably purchase the
same information from a commercial database used to target
customers."
No prob. This is one reason some people oppose those discount cards
some stores offer. Many bookstores, some grocery stores and a few
drugstores offer you coupons if you sign up for a program that
tracks your purchases.
http://www.nocards.org/
|6.17.08 @ 5:13PM|#
""Was the insult really necessary? It was an honest
question.""
No insult intended. I use wiki myself when I want a quick source
instead of really searching. In other words, when I'm too lazy to
get real info, which happens every now and then. Having said that
there is always a better source.
"""there is nothing new for a VA driver in your four
bullets."""
There may not be new information on your DL but the information
required to get or renew your license is new for VA drivers. I live
in NY and our DL's are acceptible under the real ID definition. SO
why would you and I have to get new DL to comply? It's not the DL
its self, it's the data for the database they want and that where
the civil liberty problems live.
"""I took my son to a VA DMV to pick up a driver's license a few
months ago and he had no problem with the long hair covering his
face."""
That wasn't a facial recognition then, or his hair wasn't covering
much of his face. The FR photos are very picky and require you full
face to be shown under the proper lighting.
|6.17.08 @ 5:17PM|#
"""I might also stuff my cheeks with cotton balls."""
That's a good one. But don't be suprised when your questioned by
Department of Motherland security because you face doesn't match
the photo.
Episiarch|6.17.08 @ 5:21PM|#
This is what's going to happen. The government will collect a
shitload of data. They will, of course, be colossally negligent
with it and tons will be stolen. They will make many, many errors
and create confusions that fuck up peoples lives in a horror of
bureaucracy.
Eventually it will get bad enough and enough important and
middle-class people will be ensnared and screwed by it that the
outrage will force Congress to radically reform it, maybe even drop
it.
Along the way, trillions will be spent, countless people will be
inconvenienced at best and totally fucked at worst, and the best
part is it will have almost zero impact on terrorism or
crime.
Fight it now and maybe it won't have to happen.
|6.17.08 @ 5:23PM|#
Chris Potter-
I am not familiar with the Austrian school's position on the Real
ID.
|6.17.08 @ 5:25PM|#
I wonder if having a beard for the pic and then shaving it off would interfere with the facial recognition. Hmm...
Christ on a Cracker|6.17.08 @ 5:30PM|#
As of 2011, Anyone entering a government building must possess a ReadID and no more than 0.2 inches of facial hair.
|6.17.08 @ 5:30PM|#
No prob. This is one reason some people oppose those
discount cards some stores offer. Many bookstores, some grocery
stores and a few drugstores offer you coupons if you sign up for a
program that tracks your purchases.
You do realize it's possible to shop without using your card even
if you have one, right? So, if I want to save money on Dr. Pepper,
burn pads, and ground turkey, I can use the card for that
transaction, and then go back and buy a subversive magazine like
Reason without the card. Plus, I'm not nearly paranoid or
self-absorbed enough to think my local grocer is interested in what
Chris Potter is buying. The data they care about is the
aggregate.
|6.17.08 @ 5:32PM|#
Art P.O.G.-
(1) True identity. I know that I am not adopted but my parents have
disowned me. They thought that I was too contentious.
(2) Differential equations. Yes. They confuse me.
(3) Sexual orientation. Art, you of all people should know the
answer to that question is "dont' ask" and "don't tell."
Syd|6.17.08 @ 5:34PM|#
If the article is correct, Arizona is the tenth state to reject Real ID, not the twentieth.
|6.17.08 @ 6:31PM|#
|6.17.08 @ 6:31PM|#
|6.17.08 @ 6:34PM|#
"""The federalistas will invoke highway funding extortion to
get their way, just like they did to raise the drinking age to
21."""
They found a different way this time, by invoking their ability to
keep you from flying. I'm not really concerned about being banned
from federal buildings.
Just like passing off the war on some drugs to the corporations.
After all, you can just find another place to work that doesn't
drug test, right? Just like you can find some private carrier to
fly you somewhere for a reasonable price without going through all
that ID stuff.
I wonder if jury duty on a federal case would force one to get a
new ID just to enter the courthouse, a publi place paid for with
federal tax dollars, for his lawful duties as a juror.
|6.17.08 @ 6:42PM|#
"I wonder if having a beard for the pic and then shaving it
off would interfere with the facial recognition. Hmm...
I would imagine there would be about a nanosecond that the computer
would be fooled. Then it would compare other facial features like
the geometry of the nose, eyes, ears and the spatial orientation of
those features that are unique to your handsome mug.
Then you would be "made" and the jackboots would be dispatched to
your location where justice could be administered and you could be
taught a lesson. Disguising your face with a Nixon mask would be
more effective to fool the computer, but alas doesn't fool
humans.
/Groucho Marx glasses and rainbow fro wig for the win.
The Bearded Hobbit|6.17.08 @ 8:23PM|#
.. I wish NM would dump this sh*t .. ain't ever gonna happen ..
this place is turning into statist paradise ..
.. my beef is that they are banning PO Box addresses from the
license .. all of my mail comes to my PO Box .. I have my PO Box on
my checks so that it matches my ID .. but they are going to require
physical addresses from now on .. great .. whenever my mail comes
with a physical address on it the Post Office stamps "USE CORRECT
ADDRESS" on it, if it isn't returned to sender .. sheesh, I wish
Big Brother would at least strive for some consistency in their
overlord capacity ..
.. Hobbit
|6.18.08 @ 12:14PM|#
From a civil liberty perspective, what is so onerous about
the real ID requirements? ID to get on a plane has been required
for years. There is nothing in Real ID that hasn't been on my VA
drivers license for 20+ years.
The process of getting a driver's license has become much more
onerous than it was 20 years ago. When my daughter got her license
a year ago, we were very nearly unable to provide the documents
required. Luckily, she was under 19, so we were only required to
provide one proof of identity (in her case, her birth certificate),
but if she'd waited a few more months, she'd have been SOL, because
she didn't have a second proof of identity satisfying the DMV's
requirements (listed here:
http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/pdf/dmv141.pdf). (Because she was
home-schooled through high school, she didn't have a "certified
copy of school records/transcript issued by a school accredited by
a U.S. state, jurisdiction or territory OR a Virginia Department of
Education Certificate of Enrollment form").
(She'd also have been SOL if we'd lost her birth certificate,
because now you need ID to get a replacement copy of your birth
certificate.)
I had to enlist the help of my state delegate to satisfy all the
documentary requirements, and he put he in touch with a DMV
representative in Richmond, who spends all her time helping people
satisfy the new, more burdensome requirements. She told me they
have quite a problem with old people who never bothered getting a
driver's license, but now find that they need some kind of
government-issued ID in order to travel. I guess that if they can't
get it, they'll have to live off the grid, like the "blanks" in the
old Max Headroom TV show.
|6.20.08 @ 1:54PM|#
Actually YMNGH, it hasn't been absolutely mandatory to show ID
to board a flight, as Gilmore v. TSA demonstrated.
The carriers tended to throw a fit but usually found ways to
accomodate poorly-documented flyers. Even after the September 11
attacks, it has been legal to fly without ID, as long as one was
willing to submit to additional inspections.
What I would like to see is the real history of attacks on aircraft
during the period where no one even cared if passengers were
carrying concealed weapons. I'm sure that any basic review of the
data will demonstrate that there was no pandemic of chaos in the
skies, barring the occasional admittedly harrowing diversion to
Cuba.
I bet people "made lemonade". Were I hijacked, I would have taken
the opportunity back then to pick up a box of Montecristos.
|6.21.08 @ 1:54PM|#
But the liberty lovin' state of tx is full speed for real
id.
At the Republican Party of Texas convention, despite apparent
overwhelming support for this crap, lite gov darth dewhurst got a
respectable round of boos when he unequivocally stated we'll be
re-issuing all d/l's and id's, complete with (probably) full sets
of fingerprints digitally ensconced.
After the boos he quickly changed the subject but he never expected
any opposition. RPT is on record as favoring id for damn near every
transaction, and voices of opposition have made no headway.
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