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But It Doesn't Say Whether He Was Born in a Manger!*
Markos Moulitsas gets a copy (a 2007 facsimile, run off by the state of Hawaii) of Barack Obama's birth certificate, which disproves the rumors I mentioned yesterday... or does it?
Yes, it does.
Obama himself probably has a dog-eared yellowing copy in a desk drawer somewhere; this document is what he or someone authorized by him was given by the state out of its records. Barring some vast conspiracy within the Hawaii State Department of Health, there is no reason to think his birth certificate would have any different data.
So says the guy who retired Dan Rather. What say you, citizens of the comment sections at Hot Air?
Enlarge and the text looks like it has been added on top of the green and white background, rather than typed on it as it would have been in 1961.
...
I find it odd that every work is pixelated around it, yet the black box is not.
...
Fathers race “African” (I don’t think they used those terms during that time… african is NOT a Legaly defined Race).
...
When official docs such as this are copied, the background pattern, exactly like this one, are made to say “Copy” when scanned or copied. This one doesn’t have it.
...
Looks like a photo shop. The certificate background around the font is fuzzy.
The comments in there are actually about 55/45 sane/insane, and I like Madison Conservative's admonition: "Guys, if you go down this road, it will collapse miserably. This is identical to the Bush National Guard situation, except you’re in the position of CBS. It’s low politics, and it’s a powder keg." That doesn't slow down Charles Johnson at LGF (who, credit due, never believed the stupid "whitey tape" hoax), whose thought process went like this:
It looks genuine. But Moulitsas is definitely not a trustworthy source. I need details on how he got this image before I’ll completely believe it.
UPDATE: The campaign did give it to Moulitsas for posting; he says so in the comments.
UPDATE: The interesting aspect of this story to me is that the Obama campaign apparently has close ties to a web site that hosts content like this: (cue nutball Kos commenter's diary about Israel).
What's next week's rumor going to be? I'm guessing an audio tape will reveal that Obama shot a man in Reno just to watch him die. It will be unclear if this was before or after the Nevada caucus.
*I'm stealing one of my preferred jokes from the HotAir pages.
UPDATE: Ho-kay. Charles Johnson fires back at my "smear attack":
Dave Weigel (who fell for the “whitey tape” hoax, then furiously backpedaled)
Nope. My first (June 2) post on the "whitey" story pointed out how risible it was, and how the stories I'd heard about it made no sense.
There's always been something "off" about this rumor. In the year 2008, when videos of Jeremiah Wright sermons and Mitt Romney whoppers were uploaded to YouTube regularly, and with ease, who was still hoarding video tapes? And the rumor has been twisted and mangled as different people have spread it.
In Johnson's eyes, that means I "fell for it." So you know where he's coming from.
he insinuates I was crazy to doubt Markos Moulitsas, and ignores the updates that make it clear I accept the Obama birth certificate as real
I posted two of his updates and left out only Johnson's blockquote of an argument that convinced him, even further, that the document was real. It was clear in his first update that he thought this. I didn't mean to "insinuate he was crazy to doubt" the Kos-ter in Chief; I just found it amusing that he theorized that Moulitsas committed fraud or was getting "leaks" from Team Obama, before discovering the delivery from Team Obama was above-board and described by Moulitsas in the link. Once he verified that, he moved lickety-split to his usual "Daily Kos is a pit of snakes and bigots and anyone who communicates with Moulitsas is suspect" line.
Weigel uses commenters to bash Hot Air and LGF
I quoted no LGF commenters. In the past I've linked to LGF threads and comments, but I've never attributed them to Johnson. Johnson wants the people who link him to treat him with a different standard than he applies to the BarackObama.com webmasters, which is fine: He's not running for president. Also I credited the majority of Hot Air commenters for not going the tinfoil hat route. (The really funny thing is that the commenters at both sites refuse to believe the "no, it's a real document" explanation offered by the webmasters.)
[he] excuses the sheer insanity posted in a Daily Kos diary by discounting it as a “comment” — which it is not
He quotes me in his own post calling the nutty anti-Israel stuff "a commenter's diary." Not a "comment." Why? I don't refer to blog "diarists" on first reference, because not every blog has them. Daily Kos (unlike LGF or this site) allows members (would that have been a better word than "commenter?") to post one diary a day, and Johnson linked to this thing by "nepos libertas," which was posted one month ago. (The diarist included a poll, in which all but 4 percent of readers called him an anti-Semite or idiot.)
I guess I shouldn't be surprised by this, as Johnson was one of the bloggers who bought the "the Terri Schiavo Senate memo is a fake!" conspiracy theory in 2005. It took him two weeks to call it "the Memogate II scandal that wasn't."
Nigel Watt|6.12.08 @ 2:16PM|#
When official docs such as this are copied, the background pattern, exactly like this one, are made to say "Copy" when scanned or copied. This one doesn't have it.
Yes, for all of those photocopiers available in Hawaii in 1961.
|6.12.08 @ 2:22PM|#
SO the three places i have seen this rumor are:
Reason.com
Daily Kos
and some crazy site with flashing text and written in some sort of
stream of consciousness wing nut dialect that hints at apocalypse
and the truth of 9/11.
When did Weigel descend so far?
|6.12.08 @ 2:25PM|#
The blind squirrel found a nut, and now it thinks it's Super
Squirrel.
This is identical to the Bush National Guard situation, except
you're in the position of CBS. Except for there not being any
other evidence for the claims made about Obama's birth, while there
was a great deal of evidence supporting the claims about Bush's
guard service.
When a nurse in a Kenyan hospital does what the former Speaker of
the Texas House did in 2004, and states that she delivered Obama,
then the situation will be like Rathergate.
Guy Montag|6.12.08 @ 2:32PM|#
NW,
You beat me to it:
When official docs such as this are copied, the background pattern, exactly like this one, are made to say "Copy" when scanned or copied. This one doesn't have it.
I believe that is a relatively new security feature in some
documents.
Episiarch|6.12.08 @ 2:32PM|#
Why did you have to link to LGF?
Because Dave thinks it'll be funny to have this thread overrun by
LGF maniacs?
|6.12.08 @ 2:33PM|#
Slightly odd that the father is named "Barack Hussein Obama," and his son is "Barack Hussein Obama II". Shouldn't the kid be "Jr." instead of "II"? Not that that's evidence of anything other than odd naming. I suppose you could name your kid "Fred Smith XXII" even if nobody else in your family was ever named Fred.
Guy Montag|6.12.08 @ 2:36PM|#
PapayaSF,
I did the same thing in naming my child because I hate that whole
Junior thing.
TallDave|6.12.08 @ 2:37PM|#
Why would anyone care what his middle name was?
What an odd non-scandal about non-damaging rumors that turned out
not to be true.
I am curious if they're going to release his medical records,
rather than the one-page doctor's note.
|6.12.08 @ 2:37PM|#
It's also fairly obvious that it's a recent official reprint,
not an exact copy of the original 1961 document. The "Rev 11/01
LASER" at the bottom sort of gives it away that it's not an
original.
Not that it matters since the state says it's an official copy,
except to wacky conspiracy theorists.
TallDave|6.12.08 @ 2:38PM|#
Why did you have to link to LGF?
Well, they link Glenn Greenwald here. Charles at least makes some
pretense at intellectual honesty.
|6.12.08 @ 2:39PM|#
Wait, LGF is calling another site out for the stuff that it allows people to post on their site? The same LGF which has such batshit crazy commenters that they would call Neil the voice of reason?
TallDave|6.12.08 @ 2:40PM|#
wacky conspiracy theorists.
I expect the wacky conspiracy theorists will now go one to claim
there is something on the original that isn't on the reprint. After
all, Dan Rather is still insisting those memos are from 1971.
|6.12.08 @ 2:42PM|#
Dave, give it a rest. Really. You're scaring me.
I am curious if they're going to release his medical records,
rather than the one-page doctor's note.
Me, too. Makes you wonder what he's hiding, doesn't it? ;-)
TallDave|6.12.08 @ 2:42PM|#
Mo,
OTOH, LGF isn't being used as a dispersal mechanism by the McCain
campaign.
|6.12.08 @ 2:43PM|#
Wait Obama's mother's name is Stanley? That's a boy's name!!!!
Obama had two dads!!!
This conspiracy theorying is fun.
No Name Guy|6.12.08 @ 2:44PM|#
Tall Dave, Daily Kos = Red State of the left.
LGF= Democratic Underground of the right.
TallDave|6.12.08 @ 2:44PM|#
Me, too. Makes you wonder what he's hiding, doesn't it?
;-)
Probably nothing, it just looks odd next to McCain's thousand-page
data dump.
My guess is they just don't want his cigarette smoking being
discussed.
TallDave|6.12.08 @ 2:45PM|#
No Name Guy,
Except DKos is run by a guy who said "Screw them" when 6 veterans
were burned alive on a bridge in Fallujah.
No Name Guy|6.12.08 @ 2:46PM|#
I can find equally wacky things at Red State, but McCain still
links to them (and links to DK as well, oddly).
I still say its way more mainstream than LGF.
|6.12.08 @ 2:46PM|#
His middle name is HUSSEIN! His middle name is HUSSEIN!!! Did
you hear me? HIS MIDDLE NAME IS HUSSEIN!!1!!
Hello? Anyone?
hrmph.
*ding*
His middle name is Mohammed! HIS MIDDLE NAME IS MOHAMMED!!
HIS...
|6.12.08 @ 2:48PM|#
Except DKos is run by a guy who said "Screw them" when 6
veterans were burned alive on a bridge in Fallujah.
Nice framing. You could also frame it as he said those words
regarding 6 mercenaries that left the Army and used taxpayer funded
training to make triple their salary for a mercenary outfit. It's
all how you frame things.
No Name|6.12.08 @ 2:50PM|#
God, did I just inadvertently send this thread back in time to
2003?
I'd rather stick my head in hot boiling water than re-live the
arguments of that era.
Hell, talking about the Clinton impeachment would be better.
TallDave|6.12.08 @ 2:52PM|#
You could also frame it as he said those words regarding 6
mercenaries that left the Army and used taxpayer funded training to
make triple their salary for a mercenary outfit. It's all how you
frame things.
Oh, well in that case it's OK they died horrible deaths. Screw
them!
Guy Montag|6.12.08 @ 2:52PM|#
Mo,
You sound like you are against people using their lifelong acquired
skills in persuit of their liveleyhood.
You also appear to be using the word "mercenary" as if it is
bad.
Do you suggest some sort of mind erasure when people complete their
term in government service and persue other things?
|6.12.08 @ 2:54PM|#
Rev 11/01 LASER
Revised Sep. 2001? Sep. 11 2001? Laser? like the laser that brought down the towers?
|6.12.08 @ 2:55PM|#
Joe-These Blackwater mercenaries apparently were. I'm not sure that should affect anything either way. Hell, I'm a veteran, and I promise you that has no bearing whatsoever on how valuable my life is.
Loose Change \'08|6.12.08 @ 2:56PM|#
Hmmmm... fire doesn't melt steel... but lasers do!
We're through the looking glass here people.
|6.12.08 @ 2:57PM|#
Guy,
I was merely noting that there are many ways to frame a single
statement. I simply said the exact same thing as TallDave but
framed it in a less flattering light.
I don't think there's anything wrong with mercenaries. However,
when you get paid to fight in Iraq and choose that, you take the
risks associated with that. Your risks are going to be higher and
sympathy reduced when you're not bound by the UCMJ. I do have a
problem that they're not bound by the same laws as our troops, who
don't have the choice of whether or not they go to Iraq.
Loose Change \'08|6.12.08 @ 2:58PM|#
Wait, I just realized the 11th month is November, not
September.
That's what the gov't wants you to think.
|6.12.08 @ 2:59PM|#
Enlarge and the text looks like it has been added on top of the green and white background, rather than typed on it as it would have been in 1961
Ummm, that's because the text has been printed on top of
the green and white background. This is a certification issued in
200X of a birth that occured in 1961 not a copy of the original
birth record. That's how agencies that handle these records all
over the country do it now.
Around 2001 or so I couldn't find lost the two copies of my birth
certificate and assumed they'd been lost.
Thinking that I might need one sometime I sent off to the State of
Hawaii for two replacement copies. What I got back was a document
exactly like the one in the link. All it
did was type the vital information about my birth. And instead of
"white" as the race of my parents (as it was on the original) it
said "caucasian". So, yes, it's quite possible that they would put
"african" for Obama's father's race, while it probably said "negro"
on the original.
Later on, I found the "originals". They were photostatic copies of
the original record of birth on file in the Territory of
Hawaii Department of Vital Statistics issued and hand signed and
sealed by some official of the territorial administration in
1948.
That's how things were handled in most states (and Canadian
provinces) until the 70s or eighties. The original record of live
birth (sometimes filled out by the parents and signed by the
doctor) was kept in a filing cabinet in the records office and when
someone requested a copy of their birth certificate a clerk got it
out and made a photostatic copy with a white signature area which
was then signed and sealed to make it "official". Since then
storage space has become scarcer and technology has allowed the
records to be digitized. Then when someone wanrs a copy it's simply
retreived and printed out on some kind of "safety paper" to make it
look official.
Honestly, this just buttresses my assertion that all conspiracy
theories rely on their believers' fundamental ignorance.
|6.12.08 @ 2:59PM|#
Art-P.O.G. | June 12, 2008, 2:56pm | #
Wait, I just realized the 11th month is November, not
September.
That's just what they WANT you to think. You have no idea how high
this thing goes.
Guy Montag|6.12.08 @ 3:01PM|#
Okay, point taken on the framing issue.
Now, why would you expect people on a State Department contract to
be under the UCMJ? Appearance?
Colin Clout|6.12.08 @ 3:02PM|#
TallDave, Mo, etc.,
FYI: whatever one wants to call them, I think there were four of
them not six.
|6.12.08 @ 3:05PM|#
That's just what they WANT you to think. You have no idea
how high this thing goes.
Shhhh, you don't want to piss off Big Gregorian.
Now, why would you expect people on a State Department contract
to be under the UCMJ?
Well, they're under contract to fight in a combat zone secured by
the US Military, it's a supremely bad idea for them to be held to a
different standard than our troops. One they're not as accountable
and to the local population, the one we're trying to win over,
they're our representatives. They claim they're not liable under
American or Iraqi law, so at the least they should be beholden to
our military law when they're doing military operations. What laws
do you think they should operate under? I picked UCMJ because it's
the most relevant considering the theater and the nature of the
work.
|6.12.08 @ 3:06PM|#
This is identical to the Bush National Guard situation, except you're in the position of CBS.
No they're not. The Bush "memo" was exactly reproducible in 30
seconds using a MS Word with the default settings. On the other
hand, some of the claims being made on the conspiracy side would
embarass 9/11 Truthers.
Guy Montag|6.12.08 @ 3:08PM|#
Mo,
They were under a State Department contract to provide security for
State Department assets.
Granted, the State Department does not handle their contractors as
well as the DoD, but you are really mixing things up here. Probably
not your fault from the way so much faulty mungled up reporting
that has been done in this area.
Taktix®|6.12.08 @ 3:11PM|#
Walker
Jefferson
Herbert Walker
Wilson
Earl
Rudolph
Milhous
Baines
Fitzgerald
David
S.
Delano
Clark
Calvin
Gamaliel
Woodrow
Howard
...
...
Grover
...
Alan
Abram
Birchard
Ulysses
...
...
...
...
...
...
Knox
...
Henry
Van
...
Quincy
...
...
...
...
...
Ok, now every president's middle name is no longer a secret.
Can we stop giving a shit and discuss policy?
Please?
|6.12.08 @ 3:14PM|#
MAGIC NEGRO! MAGIC NEGRO! MAGIC NEGRO! MAGIC NEGRO!AAAAAAAHAHHHHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!
DannyK|6.12.08 @ 3:16PM|#
Kos didn't exactly apologize, but he did later say that "nobody deserves to die" and that he was pissed off about these guys getting so much attention when the soldiers and civilians that died that day were pretty much ignored by the trad media.
|6.12.08 @ 3:24PM|#
DannyK,
He also discussed his own experience growing up in El Salvador, and
seeing what mercenaries were up to down there in the 70s and
80s.
So, I can cut the guy some slack for going off irresponsibly.
I wonder, how many American soldiers ended up dying in the revenge
attacks we launched?
|6.12.08 @ 3:26PM|#
"Another Smear Attack at Reason Online"
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/30315_Another_Smear_Attack_at_Reason_Online
There's even a variant of "for a magazin called reason" in this lgf
post. Great fun.
Brendan|6.12.08 @ 3:26PM|#
> Ok, now every president's middle name is no longer a
secret.
Very good.
Tiny quibble: Harry Truman's middle name was simply "S" with no
period.
Fluffy|6.12.08 @ 3:26PM|#
Charles Johnson is a fucking pussy who won't open registration
to his site because he knows the world would subscribe to tell him
that he's a worthless pussy coward.
And the suggestion that Johnson is somehow more credible than
Greenwald is an absolute absurdity.
MattGrudge|6.12.08 @ 3:27PM|#
There is a rumor of an intimate tape of Michelle and Obama lying
under the covers in bed. She lets out a horrendous fart, and
giggles, he giggles, and then she pulls the covers over his head,
and he starts to scream,
"Stop it, Michelle, that one was really bad."
She answers back,
"Make me, you little bitch, make me."
|6.12.08 @ 3:28PM|#
My cousin's sister's ex-boyfriend's sister says she was an intern in Chicago about 10 years ago and knew Obama. According to those in the know, he's hung like a horse, a good 10 inches at least.
Fluffy|6.12.08 @ 3:30PM|#
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/30315_Another_Smear_Attack_at_Reason_Online
Wow, this is a very short post to have two blatant lies in
it.
First, the liar says that Weigel "fell for the Whitey Tape hoax",
when Weigel covered the Whitey Tape hoax to make fun of morons like
the average LGF visitor who desperately wanted the hoax to be
true.
Then it asserts that somehow a diary at Kos is qualitatively
different than a comment at Kos, even though any commenting member
who wishes can start a diary at any time, and the distinction
between a "comment" and a "diary" is therefore merely one of site
layout and not posting authority or "officialness".
I'd say these things at LGF, but because they're fucking pussy
cowards, you can't register at their site to comment.
Taktix®|6.12.08 @ 3:33PM|#
My cousin's sister's ex-boyfriend's...
Wouldn't you're cousin's sister also be your cousin?
Just sayin'
Brendan,
Nice catch. I had assumed it was a conspiracy by the letter "S" to
take over control of the country. It sponsors children's programs
too...
|6.12.08 @ 3:34PM|#
I just went over to look at some of that comment section at Hot
Air.
Wow, I guess I've lived a sheltered life. I've never seen that much
batshit insanity and ignorance per square inch of written
space.
|6.12.08 @ 3:38PM|#
God, but don't you just love all that good anti-Semitic ranting that you can find over at Kos. Some of those writers over there can really put the folks in Hamas and al Qaeda to shame.
|6.12.08 @ 3:39PM|#
I think you are misinterpreting part of the birth
certificate
.
Rev 11/01 LASER is the name of his new
pastor/priest/padre/Reverend.
I think he was an American Gladiator. So, you know, its all
cool.
Lastly, "zmdavid" over at LGF asks if ...'we now call them "Double
Standard Online" instead of "Reason Online"?'
ooooooh, buuuurrrrn! I'm totally hurt, now.
It that comment close enough to one of the Rules of the drinking
game? 'cause I need a drink after reading so much idiocy today.
|6.12.08 @ 3:45PM|#
Hey Fluffy, Considering that there are probably between 25,000 and 30,000 registered commenters on LGF, you must be able to register once in awhile. And for the record, I am not a "fucking pussy coward".
No Name Guy|6.12.08 @ 3:45PM|#
Here we go, the psychos have come out of their echo
chamber.
"Thanks", Dave.
|6.12.08 @ 3:48PM|#
Rev 11/01 LASER is the name of his new pastor/priest/padre/Reverend.
And I thought Harry "S" Truman was a crazy name.
Fluffy|6.12.08 @ 3:50PM|#
Jen,
Go to the home page of LGF.
Look in the login section.
Look at the little word next to "Register".
What does it say?
It should just say, "Fucking Pussy Cowards" instead.
If you don't run the site and don't control the registration
policy, you may not personally be a fucking pussy coward. It's
likely that you are a dumbass, but that's a different subject. If
you are involved in running the site and its registration policy,
then yes, you are indeed an FPC. Sorry, those are the breaks.
|6.12.08 @ 3:51PM|#
Dave,
Look I don't need to know about every Obama bashing rumor you can
find somewhere on the internet. How about you only tell us about
the rumors you find credible from here on out?
Thanks
Warren
|6.12.08 @ 3:54PM|#
Hey,LGFers! Look over there, it's an interracial Muslim Gay Couple burning the flag while standing on the bible and urinating on a picture of Jesus! Go get 'em, folks!
|6.12.08 @ 3:57PM|#
Hey Fluff! Obviously it says "open" once in awhile or there wouldn't be ANY commentors. I am also not a "dumbass". From what you have written here, I don't think you'd have much to offer the discussion anyway.
|6.12.08 @ 4:01PM|#
Quick! They've opened registration!
Registration is now open for a limited time; please read all the
fine print before commenting, so that Stinky Beaumont doesn't have
to just take your account away immediately.
Fluffy|6.12.08 @ 4:04PM|#
Hey Fluff! Obviously it says "open" once in awhile or there
wouldn't be ANY commentors.
It obviously said "open" at one time. It hasn't said "open" on any
of the intermittent occasions where the site came to my notice for
years.
I am also not a "dumbass".
If you approve of any of the content at LGF, you sure are.
Let me guess: you're a lifelong Republican, who strongly supports
the President, even though he has betrayed every principle the
party ever stood for. Am I close? You're either a dumbass, or
you're scum.
From what you have written here, I don't think you'd have much
to offer the discussion anyway.
You, on the other hand, have plenty to offer the discussion here.
Please stay and be a pinata. Thanks.
Fluffy|6.12.08 @ 4:09PM|#
Wow, they really opened registration.
Damn, that's some pretty good service right there.
No Name Guy|6.12.08 @ 4:10PM|#
30,000 registered commentors, all with the same ridiculous bed-wetter opinions.
PC|6.12.08 @ 4:10PM|#
"No Name Guy | June 12, 2008, 3:59pm | #
Why don't they just leave it open all the time?"
Because they think it "enhances" the "quality" of the comments.
Keep in mind these are the same kind that believe in the "fight em
there and they won't come here" BS.
No Name Guy|6.12.08 @ 4:11PM|#
"because they think it "enhances" the "quality" of the
comments."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Fluffy|6.12.08 @ 4:12PM|#
OK, I have now registered.
Now I will lay in wait, ready to strike.
Who wants to have a pool on how many posts it takes me to get
banned?
|6.12.08 @ 4:14PM|#
I am also not a "dumbass". From what you have written here,
I don't think you'd have much to offer the discussion
anyway.
This is true...
they have no use for your biased "facts" at LGF, Fluffy.
Unless you are gonna offer some unsubstanciated rumor or gin up
conspiracy theories, you have nothing to offer their
discussions
Gandalf|6.12.08 @ 4:14PM|#
"because they think it "enhances" the "quality" of the
comments."
It does its job. People who are not on message will find it harder
to register. Echo Chamber enhanced.
PC|6.12.08 @ 4:16PM|#
Fluffy | June 12, 2008, 4:12pm | #
As long as you don't go around cursing you can actually stick
around for a while. There are a handful of dissenters and you can
get away with quite a bit. The way registration policy is designed
it keeps dissenters from registering because they don't view it
everyday. The inside jokes and groupthink may drive you to curse
though.
Redstate has the more draconian banning policy, or at least it had.
Does anyone even go there anymore?
BC|6.12.08 @ 4:20PM|#
an audio tape will reveal that Obama shot a man in Reno just
to watch him die
...and his real name is Sue.
Fluffy|6.12.08 @ 4:20PM|#
Wow, Charles Johnson himself showed up in that thread to
denounce me.
He took time from his busy day of hating Muslims to single me
out.
Charles is one of those nancy boys who doesn't just wet the bed
when he thinks about Muslims - he also shits his pants and faints
on to a couch whenever anyone curses.
|6.12.08 @ 4:21PM|#
The inside jokes and groupthink may drive you to curse
though.
No shit!
Oh, you meant over at LGF. Never mind.
No Name Guy|6.12.08 @ 4:25PM|#
I wonder if Chuckie J. lives inside some kind of sealed led bunker with air filtration device and a water purifier, just in case those scary scary Muslims try to kill him.
Orange Line Special|6.12.08 @ 4:25PM|#
Regarding Kos as a CredibleSource, over five years ago he posted a PropagandaPicture from a fringe U.S. website, claiming that it was from "the" AlJazeera. When pointed that out, I was banned by Kos. If he told me the sky was blue, I'd double-check first to see if it's changed.
Bill|6.12.08 @ 4:25PM|#
I'll admit that it's mainly Radley B that I read here but I'm no doubt a loyal Reason reader. Heated comments are nothing new but WTF is up with some of these? Then again, I guess I better shut up, having a differing opinion makes some people apoplectic... by Fluff's standards apparently, since I don't think flagrant flame throwing is beneficial, I'm a f-p-c.
PC|6.12.08 @ 4:26PM|#
"Oh, you meant over at LGF. Never mind."
Actually I was talking about Hotair, I skipped over most of this
thread to keep from cursing. LGF, just from intuition is probably
much worse.
|6.12.08 @ 4:26PM|#
The 8th President of the US was Van Buren, Martin. There is no record in New York or Hawaii that he was born Martin Van Van Buren.
TallDave|6.12.08 @ 4:27PM|#
LGF is anti-jihadist, NOT anti-Muslim. You'll find more posts
supportive of liberal/moderate Muslims there than any other site
with anything near its traffic.
Charles is one of few people willing to openly confront radical
Muslims, and he's not afraid to be called a racist for it unlike
most people who run fleeing from anything that could be deemed
"insensitive".
Here's a typical offering:
Textbooks at a private Islamic school in northern Virginia
teach students that it is permissible for Muslims to kill
adulterers and converts from Islam, according to a federal
investigation released Wednesday.
Other passages in the school's textbooks state that "the Jews
conspired against Islam and its people" and that Muslims are
permitted to take the lives and property of those deemed
"polytheists."
PC|6.12.08 @ 4:28PM|#
I was too late to game, looks like they closed registration
again.
But back to the Birth Certificate thing, if some of them question
the scanned image of Obama's certificate just wait until they see
McCain's...papyrus doesn't scan anywhere near as well.
Seitz|6.12.08 @ 4:28PM|#
When pointed that out, I was banned by Kos.
Are you sure it's because you pointed that out, and not because
you're simply a gigantic douche? Because I suspect it's the
latter.
Bill|6.12.08 @ 4:29PM|#
"Wow, Charles Johnson himself showed up in that thread to
denounce me.
He took time from his busy day of hating Muslims to single me
out.
Charles is one of those nancy boys who doesn't just wet the bed
when he thinks about Muslims - he also shits his pants and faints
on to a couch whenever anyone curses."
I don't know Charles from the man on the moon, but if he's such a
terrible guy, you ought to be able to point out tons of terrible
things he does, as opposed to just ranting. If you have any solid
evidence at all that he hates all muslims or that he wets his bed
etc etc, I'd love to see it. Somehow I think that probably isn't
going to happen though.
Seitz|6.12.08 @ 4:29PM|#
But back to the Birth Certificate thing, if some of them
question the scanned image of Obama's certificate just wait until
they see McCain's...papyrus doesn't scan anywhere near as
well.
It's almost impossible to run a stone tablet through a
photocopier.
Fluffy|6.12.08 @ 4:30PM|#
Oh, poor Bill!
Quick, get him some smelling salts!
Look, Charles Johnson is disturbed because he thinks it's not
"classy" to accuse him of being a fucking pussy coward.
But running a site dedicated to hatred of Muslims apparently makes
him one of the boni.
And Bill agrees, whimpering a bit over in the corner.
TallDave|6.12.08 @ 4:31PM|#
I don't know Charles from the man on the moon, but if he's
such a terrible guy, you ought to be able to point out tons of
terrible things he does, as opposed to just ranting. If you have
any solid evidence at all that he hates all muslims or that he wets
his bed etc etc, I'd love to see it. Somehow I think that probably
isn't going to happen though.
Exactly.
|6.12.08 @ 4:31PM|#
I've already seen copies floating around that show that the middle names were "Muhammad Hussein" with a religion of Muslim. So believe whatever you will. The copies were in perfect condition as well....didn't look like they were messed with either.
No Name Guy|6.12.08 @ 4:33PM|#
BREAKING! John Quincy Adams used gambling devices in the White
House basement! He may have also given a pure American virgin to be
one of the Czar's mistresses when he was ambassador to
Russia!
Developing...
|6.12.08 @ 4:34PM|#
Actually, I hear McCain's birth certificate is signed by God. At that point in creation, there was no one else around to do it.
TallDave|6.12.08 @ 4:35PM|#
But running a site dedicated to hatred of Muslims apparently
makes him one of the boni.
Yeah, here he is pouring on the hate.
The Free Muslim Coalition Against Terrorism
These are the fellow human beings we need to support, as they
battle the forces of darkness within their own communities: Sign
Petition to Punish Religious Leaders who Preach Violence and
Justify Terrorism: Free Muslim Coalition Against Terrorism.
What a jerk.
No Name Guy|6.12.08 @ 4:38PM|#
Hey Dave, David Duke (and the President of Iran) both have held
conferences with ultra-Orthodox Jews.
Must not be such a bad guy, right? Certainly not anti-Semitic! Just
anti-Zionist! /snark
|6.12.08 @ 4:39PM|#
LGF, the site that if you linked from a site he didn't like,
you'd be graced with a screen full of some little animated
something or other and "You are an Idiot" repeated over and over in
the most annoying sound possible?
Childish to the nth degree. But this thread is a great one to come
back to the webs for. I left because I was sick of politics, I see
nothing has changed. The bedwetters are still out in force.
TallDave|6.12.08 @ 4:39PM|#
Here's another of many posts defending moderate Muslims:
Why We Rarely Hear from Moderate Muslims
Because this is what happens when they try to do the right thing:
Britain's first Muslim MP to stand down after death threats.
"A Labour MP is stepping down after receiving death threats over
his role in bringing three racist killers to justice.
Mohammad Sarwar, who became Britain's first Muslim MP in 1997, said
he feared the lives of his family were also in
jeopardy."
Sounds like Sarwar is just another bedwetter. He should "man up"
and ignore all these death threats against his family.
Fluffy|6.12.08 @ 4:40PM|#
You'll find more posts supportive of liberal/moderate
Muslims there than any other site with anything near its
traffic.
Johnson considers every Muslim association in the United States of
any size to be a jihadist group or front group.
He must be using a funny definition of "moderate".
If you have any solid evidence at all that he hates all muslims
or that he wets his bed etc etc, I'd love to see it.
http:\\www.littlegreenfootballs.com
Bill|6.12.08 @ 4:41PM|#
*Sigh* Fluff, looks like a serious case of projection from over here - *I'm* not the one who comes unglued because someone dare disagree with me. So I'll take your non-response to indicate that you don't have any evidence whatsoever of anything you accuse the LGF guy of right? But hey, if getting slightly annoyed by some child smacking his plastic spoon off of his high chair is all that it takes for me to 'agree', so be it. Hopefully mommy will hear the noise and tuck you in bed early tonight.
TallDave|6.12.08 @ 4:42PM|#
No Name,
Saying LGF is anti-Muslim is like saying a site dedicated to
criticizing the KKK is anti-white.
No Name Guy|6.12.08 @ 4:43PM|#
No, its like saying David Duke isn't anti-Jew. Hes just
anti-Zionist.
Also, it would be like saying Jared Taylor isn't a racist. Just a
race realist.
Seitz|6.12.08 @ 4:43PM|#
I've already seen copies floating around that show that the
middle names were "Muhammad Hussein" with a religion of Muslim. So
believe whatever you will. The copies were in perfect condition as
well....didn't look like they were messed with either.
Right, because birth certificates typically list "religion".
TallDave|6.12.08 @ 4:45PM|#
No Name,
No, that's a terrible analogy. David Duke belonged to the KKK, a
white supremacist group.
No Name Guy|6.12.08 @ 4:46PM|#
Dave they're not white supremacists, just white
separatists. /snark
You can frame it any way you like.
TallDave|6.12.08 @ 4:47PM|#
Johnson considers every Muslim association in the United
States of any size to be a jihadist group or front
group.
Well, let's see some examples of instances where he's unfairly
called a group extremist.
TallDave|6.12.08 @ 4:48PM|#
Dave they're not white supremacists, just white separatists.
/snark
And Johnson is neither.
No Name Guy|6.12.08 @ 4:50PM|#
Actually, I heard Charles Johnson attended a cross burning
once.
Prove me wrong!
TallDave|6.12.08 @ 5:00PM|#
Probably the main reason you don't hear a lot of criticism of
Johnson himself is that he doesn't do much opinionating; he mostly
just collates a lot of reports of Islamic extremism.
I don't read regularly, but today's offering is probably typical.
We have a piece critical of white supremacists (ironically David
Duke is mentioned), a link to an investigation that tied a U.S.
group to the Muslim Brotherhood, some stuff about Obama, a piece
critical of a CAIR spokesperson who appears to be trying to
restrict criticism like is happening in Canada, another piece on
efforts to limit free speech here in the U.S., and a piece critical
of Pat Buchanan's magazine for suggesting an Israeli connection to
9/11.
Oh, and this:
GAZA (Reuters) - Abu Hafss is not happy.
A year after Hamas Islamists seized control of the Gaza Strip, Abu
Hafss is waiting impatiently to see a sword remove the hand of a
thief or a woman stoned to death for adultery.
I think Charles is more libertarian thana lot of people here.
|6.12.08 @ 5:13PM|#
I'm starting to think the good Reverend Wright is onto something. God damn America. Can any of you athiest bible scholars tell me if our collective desire for bad shit to happen to others is a sin? JFC!
Fluffy|6.12.08 @ 5:20PM|#
Bill,
If I ran a site where I obsessively-compulsively posted about every
crime committed by a black person anywhere in the world, and where
I had claimed that every major African-American organization was
secretly a terrorist group because some member of each group once
had lunch with somebody who went to school with a childhood friend
of Huey Newton, people might start to think I had some sort of
"problem".
I posted a link to his homepage half as a joke, and half to
encourage you to get off your ass and browse the site.
*Sigh* Fluff, looks like a serious case of projection from over
here - *I'm* not the one who comes unglued because someone dare
disagree with me.
What are you talking about? You show up and start whining that the
posts are too mean, so I accused you of being a wimp. It's
precisely the fact that your poor dear heart can't take a little
"apoplexy" that I'm making fun of. I'm not "unglued" by the fact
that you disagree with me in the least. I'm just annoyed by the
whiny way you showed up to whine about "flaming". Show up in some
of the religion threads if you want to see flaming, noob.
And BTW, TallDave, one of the many reasons I think that the folks
at LGF are douchebags is the fact that in the space of a couple of
hours they can have a post complaining about the erosion of free
speech rights, and another post demanding that a private
school be shut down for its content.
Fluffy|6.12.08 @ 5:26PM|#
Well, let's see some examples of instances where he's
unfairly called a group extremist.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/lgf-search.php?searchString=cair
There's his obsession with CAIR for starters.
|6.12.08 @ 5:36PM|#
Oh, well in that case it's OK they died horrible deaths.
Screw them!
You have to remember people who are contracted to do a job for the
US are less then human, while union workers working for the
government are special citizens entitled to special rights.
This is how ppl like Kos and Joe think.
Fluffy|6.12.08 @ 5:47PM|#
This is how ppl like Kos and Joe think.
The contractors can quit and go home any time they want.
Our troops have been ordered to be there.
So I would say that I feel bad for our troops, but not particularly
bad for the mercenaries, and if the propaganda machine whirls into
operation to try to gin up sympathy for dead mercenaries as part of
the general campaign to maintain support for the war, I'm not going
to play. I find it very easy in such an instance to harden my heart
like Pharaoh, because I refuse to be manipulated.
Fluffy|6.12.08 @ 5:53PM|#
And, and BTW TallDave -
If Johnson is only "anti-jihadist", can I assume that means he
doesn't have a problem with Fatah? Are they OK in his book?
|6.12.08 @ 5:54PM|#
Nigel Watt | June 12, 2008, 2:28pm | #
When did Weigel descend so far?
Dude, it's funny. Calm down.
Weigel going off the reservation is serious business.
|6.12.08 @ 6:02PM|#
So I would say that I feel bad for our troops, but not
particularly bad for the mercenaries, and if the propaganda machine
whirls into operation to try to gin up sympathy for dead
mercenaries as part of the general campaign to maintain support for
the war, I'm not going to play.
You are a fucking asshole.
and a stupid one at that.
I think this is where libertarians are missing the boat. Ron Paul's
message is so different then this it is earth shattering. But here
let me put this pile of shit in your face so you can smell
it.
Why is your message "fuck them" and not "our government took our
money to put them there to be killed"?
Fluffy|6.12.08 @ 6:02PM|#
Hold on a second - are people actually saying that Weigel
shouldn't be paying attention to debunking this rumor, because it's
been limited only to a few fringe sites? Because that's definitely
not true. That hypocritical bastard Jay Severin stroked himself
talking about the rumor for about an hour on the radio yesterday.
This rumor was all over the place.
Or are you guys criticizing Weigel because he doesn't believe the
rumor is true, and has "sunk" to the level of the people who are
also debunking the rumor? I'm not sure what you're trying to say
here.
|6.12.08 @ 6:10PM|#
Quick! They've opened registration!
Where the hell is Mo and Ali when you need them.
I was too late to game, looks like they closed registration
again.
Ya snooze, ya looze.
Fluffy|6.12.08 @ 6:14PM|#
Why is your message "fuck them" and not "our government took
our money to put them there to be killed"?
Oh, I'm just about as pissed off about the money as anyone could
want me to be, Mr. Corning. Believe me. I am more pissed every day
about it. Trust me.
But the context in which this question arose was one of media
coverage. Kos became annoyed at the huge amount of media coverage
the contractor issue generated, and resented the fact that this
coverage assumed that all viewers would feel natural sympathy for
the noble contractors, and hatred for the Evil Barbaric enemy. He
also resented the way casualty math works in the media: 6 dead
contractors is a much bigger story than 600 dead Iraqis.
And I have to say I agree. 6 dead US soldiers is rightfully a much
bigger story than 600 dead Iraqis. 6 dead contractors is not. Those
6 dead contractors get a share of the general sympathy I have for
all the non-US-soldier victims of the war, and since there are
about 600,000 dead Iraqis right now that gives them 1/100,000th of
the sympathy I have for the other war dead.
|6.12.08 @ 6:17PM|#
Or are you guys criticizing Weigel because he doesn't
believe the rumor is true, and has "sunk" to the level of the
people who are also debunking the rumor? I'm not sure what you're
trying to say here.
The rumor is untrue and the publicity around it is as far as i can
tell is generated by Weigel and most importantly does not reflect
the heart and soul of the Republican party.
Maybe he is looking for a book deal so he can misinform dems about
Republican a'la "Whats wrong with Kansas."
No Name Guy|6.12.08 @ 6:18PM|#
You really think theres nothing wrong with Republicans right now Joshua?
|6.12.08 @ 6:23PM|#
Kos became annoyed at the huge amount of media coverage the
contractor issue generated,
6 Americans killed working for the US government in a war zone and
he is pissed about the coverage?? and his response is "fuck
them"??
Yeah Kos is an idiot who does not deserve the time of day.
Kolohe|6.12.08 @ 6:23PM|#
Hold on a second - are people actually saying that Weigel
shouldn't be paying attention to debunking this rumor
I have said that if I werre in Weigel's place, I wouldn't be doing
it, because, even though it's fun, it would be beneath my and my
magazine's dignity.
|6.12.08 @ 6:24PM|#
You really think theres nothing wrong with Republicans right
now Joshua?
Only just about fucking everything...
But weird rumors dug up from Truther sites?
No.
No Name Guy|6.12.08 @ 6:27PM|#
Alright, we're on the same page then.
Something wrong with them, I think, is that their entire
Presidential campaign is beginning to revolve around tearing down
their opponent.
Now, every campaign goes negative to some degree, but it seems like
thatsxs ALL Republicans are doing this year. Whens the last time
Red State (is that mainstream enough?) gave a good reason to elect
McCain. Count the number of times they do that vs. posts on Wright,
Ayers, his middle name, his wife, Rezko etc etc.
Sura 109|6.12.08 @ 6:30PM|#
TallDave | June 12, 2008, 4:27pm | #
LGF is anti-jihadist, NOT anti-Muslim.
Yeah, and all Muslims are jihadists, isn't that right? You're not
fooling anybody.
You'll find more posts supportive of liberal/moderate Muslims there than any other site with anything near its traffic.
Then I'm sure you can quote us some examples.
Charles is one of few people willing to openly confront radical Muslims,
His rank and serial number are? With what unit is he serving? Iraq
or Afghanistan?
and he's not afraid to be called a racist for it unlike most people who run fleeing from anything that could be deemed "insensitive".
Yeah, Chucky is a brave, brave man, hiding behind a blog with
closed registration and banning people who disagree with him.
|6.12.08 @ 6:38PM|#
It was FOUR Blackwater employees killed at Fallujah.
This is driving nuts. Apparently the crime was horrific enough to
use it to blast Kos with, but not serious enough to actually know
what happened. Everytime someone says six, it reminds me they
really don't now what happened there. Which is kind of
disrespectful to the FOUR guys whose dead bodies you are beating
Kos over the head with in the first place.
Not that I'm a huge Kos fan, but seriously, at least get it
straight.
|6.12.08 @ 6:39PM|#
Something wrong with them, I think, is that their entire
Presidential campaign is beginning to revolve around tearing down
their opponent.
I see nothing wrong with going negative in the slightest.
I have the sinking suspicion that many libertarians feel the same
way. If i can't get less government then at least I can get some
blood sport. Hell with all this heated debate flying around someone
might actually say something crazy like "cut spending".
At the very least we might get a divided get-nothing-done
government.
Fluffy|6.12.08 @ 6:49PM|#
6 Americans killed working for the US government in a war
zone and he is pissed about the coverage?? and his response is
"fuck them"??
Well, as I recall an American girl got killed by a bulldozer
protesting in the Occupied Territories, and the LGFers of the world
said, "Fuck her, she shouldn't have been there!" The contractors
shouldn't have been there.
|6.12.08 @ 7:11PM|#
Quick! They've opened registration!
Where the hell is Mo and Ali when you need them.
Dude, I wouldn't post there if my life depended on it. I'd probably
tear out my eyes to end the pain after a week.
FYI, I haven't been Muslim since I was 18. Not because they're evil
or anything, but because organized religion isn't my thing.
I see nothing wrong with going negative in the
slightest.
There's a difference between going negative and pointless and silly
speculation. There's a difference between, "He took bribes and
here's the evidence" and "His wife may have said 'whitey' 4 years
ago, my friend's cousin's uncle's college roommate has the tape" or
"His middle name isn't 'Hussein' it's the more offensive
'Beezulbub'".
|6.12.08 @ 7:55PM|#
I stop in at LGF almost daily hoping to register. I'm persistent. I have a new identity with E-mail address ready. It'll happen.
|6.12.08 @ 8:02PM|#
Actually, the American girl (Rachel Cory?) died in a bulldozer
accident. Make that "accident". If you lie down in front of a
bulldozer, and are stupid enough to not get up when the operator
does not see you...that's only sort of an accident.
As I recall, the girl was protesting the destruction of houses that
concealed tunnels that were being used to import bombs that would
be used to blow up innocent people. And didn't her family try to
sue Caterpillar? It may not be right to dance about on her grave,
but her actions come pretty close to deserving a Darwin
Award.
I recall seeing pictures of her where her outrage is a match for
the famous professional angry Muslim. Here it is:
http://mikeely.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/rachel-corrie-2.jpg
I like the expression on some of the kid's faces - like "WTF is
with this white broad"
Roger Maltz|6.12.08 @ 9:05PM|#
Pathetic political blogger sniping. YAWN. Thanks for all the sweet UPDATEs, Dave.
|6.12.08 @ 10:16PM|#
Dude, I wouldn't post there if my life depended on it. I'd
probably tear out my eyes to end the pain after a week.
The pleasure of watching heads explode over there would be worth it
to me though.
FYI, I haven't been Muslim since I was 18.
Edward Luttwak says, "Once a Muslim, always a Muslim." There's no
quitting, kinda like the Mafia.
Over50 no alias|6.12.08 @ 10:31PM|#
The image has obviously manipulated but that does not imply that
the document is not genuine.
In most jurisdictions of which I am aware, when you order a copy of
a birth certificate for someone born relatively recently (say after
1900) you do not get a photocopy of the original piece of paper.
What you get is a computer generated image printed on a current
document form based on information held in a computer
database.
The text is not "pixelated" it is antialiased. If an image of a
diagonal line is printed on a raster device (such as a laser
printer or computer monitor) the finite resolution of the device
will cause the line to look jagged. To ameliorate this effect (to
some extent) the color or grayscale value in an image can be
manipulated to soften the "jaggies". This is called
antialiasing.
If you look closely at an enlarged image you see that the letters
and black bar are both antialiased. What you don't see is an
antialiased background (just as you'd expect). The software that
prints the image has prettied up the image by using an antialias
process to make the image clearer and easier to read. The pattern
on the form is not antialiased since it is printed on some high
resolution commmercial device rather than a laser printer. If it
looks like the iimage has been overlain on the form, that's because
it has been.
You might also notice that 314 pixels from the top of the form,
running through the state seal of Hawaii, is a crease. The crease
has disrupted the image of the seal (as you can see at high
magnificate).
So, to summarize, here's the process: take a modern form from the
stack in the Hawaii dept of vital statistics, print the certificate
from stored data (antialiasing so it looks good), send it to the
requestor, requestor scans it and sends the jpeg off to the web. No
fraud just modern info technology process.
mcgurk|6.12.08 @ 10:36PM|#
Reason magazine... don't waste too much bandwidth defending
Obama.
It's Obama's job to provide proof of his American citizenship.
That's the deal; its been that way for presiential candidates for a
little while at least.
And providing Kos a bitmap isn't quite proof. We need an official
birth certificate. What the campaign has done is worthless.
Focus on that, fucknut.
|6.12.08 @ 10:45PM|#
you folks need to differentiate the difference between mercenary
and contractor, for real! I know it rings better in the ear but it
simply is not accurate. Those contractors were killed pulling
security for a convoy delivering goods. They weren't seeking out
and engaging the enemy which is something Mercenaries do.
I know it will fall on deaf ears but I had to say it. If your going
to hate this war do so but be honest about it. Otherwise your just
as bad as those you accuse.
No Name Guy|6.12.08 @ 10:53PM|#
McGurk, I believe in order to file a candidacy for the U.S. Senate (let alone the Presidency) one is required to present proof of U.S. citizenship. So hes done that already. Are you from Little Green Bedwetters?
|6.13.08 @ 12:56AM|#
"FYI, I haven't been Muslim since I was 18. Not because they're
evil or anything, but because organized religion isn't my
thing."
Bullshit. If you left islam you're now an apostate which means the
death penalty for you in several muslim countries.Still, it's good
they're not "evil or anything".
|6.13.08 @ 1:00AM|#
"McGurk, I believe in order to file a candidacy for the U.S.
Senate (let alone the Presidency) one is required to present proof
of U.S. citizenship. So hes done that already. Are you from Little
Green Bedwetters?"
So had McCain but it didn't stop the New York Slimes from making
his citizenship a major news story..one that had to go all the way
to the Senate to be resolved. Funny how Democrats always get a pass
from the MSM while Republicans are fair game.
|6.13.08 @ 1:40AM|#
Well, as I recall an American girl got killed by a bulldozer
protesting in the Occupied Territories, and the LGFers of the world
said, "Fuck her, she shouldn't have been there!" The contractors
shouldn't have been there.
Hey look conservatives are fucked....lets try to be more fucked
then they are!!!
|6.13.08 @ 1:47AM|#
Hey I should work for the daily Kos as their ad guy.
here is my first attempt at copy:
"The progressive blog working hard to be more fucked then Little
Green Footballs."
"Ya we suck, but look how much more LGF sucks."
"Weigel came to our convention and we got him laid."
"Finding weird far right strawmen to tear down for you"
|6.13.08 @ 9:02AM|#
Bullshit. If you left islam you're now an apostate which
means the death penalty for you in several muslim
countries.
Yeah and my friend that cheated on her husband is supposed to be
stoned, according to the Bible, what's your point? Apparently, my
apostasy has never been an issue the dozens of times I've traveled
to Arab countries before, but I'll watch my back in the future.
|6.13.08 @ 9:04AM|#
So had McCain but it didn't stop the New York Slimes from
making his citizenship a major news story..one that had to go all
the way to the Senate to be resolved. Funny how Democrats always
get a pass from the MSM while Republicans are fair game.
Obama - born in Hawaii
McCain - born in Panama
One of those two places is not a state. I'll give you a hint, the
state doesn't have a big ass canal.
SuprKufr|6.13.08 @ 9:45AM|#
If Islam is a religion that:
A) supports slavery
B) supports f*cking 9 year old little girls
C) supports killing non-muslims or forcing non-muslims to accept
muslim law
D) supports dismemberment
E) supports freaking the f*ck out when anyone does anything that
it's most conservative and fundamentalist preachers dislike the
tiniest bit
Then I would say that LGF is anti-Islam. If those things are NOT
part of Islam, then LGF is NOT anti-Islam. But it's a big "if",
right?
I think A-E (above) suck. Are they part of Islam or are they not? I
think that's a valuable discussion to have. To say "LGF says that
ALL Muslims are jihadists!" is a tired attempt to avoid that
valuable discussion.
Question for joe: confirm the following:
1. the Muslim prophet Muhammad had slaves
2. the Muslim prophet Muhammad is a "perfect model of
conduct"
Are either of those untrue? Discuss the ramifications. (Prediction:
joe will be a liberal pussy through-and-through. Second prediction:
joe will be a liberal pussy by mocking my use of the phrase
"liberal pussy" and *still* dodging the question.)
|6.13.08 @ 11:20AM|#
Whatever, pinhead. I'm not interested in your threadjack.
Abominable behavior by Johnson. Weigel actually singles him out for
taking a reasonable position on this and trying to lead his
commenters out of their conspiratorial lunacy, but that's not good
enough, because Weigel didn't engage in enough Rah Rah Team Red
Kos-bashing. Pathetic - just as pathetic as the wingnut "guests"
flooding the comments here.
Bill|6.13.08 @ 11:30AM|#
@Fluff:
'If I ran a site where I obsessively-compulsively posted about
every crime committed by a black person anywhere in the world, and
where I had claimed that every major African-American organization
was secretly a terrorist group because some member of each group
once had lunch with somebody who went to school with a childhood
friend of Huey Newton, people might start to think I had some sort
of "problem".'
So your implication is that LGF does all of that, according to you?
Most of the stuff I've ever seen there in the way of 'crimes'
almost always involve people getting killed or maimed and it's
usually pretty horrendous stuff. Sorry Fluff, that's a lot
different than posting 'every crime committed' by...
'I posted a link to his homepage half as a joke, and half to
encourage you to get off your ass and browse the site.'
I got it, I just think it was a pathetic response. As with the
previous post, every single response you've given me makes tons of
accusatory remarks that are nothing more than your opinion stated
as though they are facts.
'What are you talking about? You show up and start whining that the
posts are too mean, so I accused you of being a wimp.'
-I didn't show up anywhere, I read Reason daily and have for quite
a while. You accuse me of being a wimp, which makes sense in a way.
From what I've seen in your responses, you have no problem making
accusations and negative characterizations of people you know
little about. Notice Fluff - I didn't say a single word about any
other negative comments in here. I wasn't whining about anything. I
just happen to like this site and got annoyed that *your* childish
trolling and name calling was lame. And WIMP? I love Internet Tough
Guys. Your not a wimp b/c you post anonymously and run your big
mouth like your hard - I spoke my mind as I normally do, with full
links to who I am and where to find me. Then again, most internet
tough guys are punks so it's part for the course.
'It's precisely the fact that your poor dear heart can't take a
little "apoplexy" that I'm making fun of.'
My dear heart can take it. This whole thing occupied about 5
minutes of my time yesterday and that was pretty much it for me.
Again, it's just sad you can't take people disagreeing with you
without getting unglued.
'I'm not "unglued" by the fact that you disagree with me in the
least. I'm just annoyed by the whiny way you showed up to whine
about "flaming".'
Not unglued? Looks at when you started posting and all the time you
spent afterward. But I guess if I was all big and tough like you,
and started name calling like a tough guy, I wouldn't be whiny huh?
Face it Fluffy, it had nothing to do with the way I said anything,
it's what I said. And you sat there jamming your fingers into your
keyboard getting all worked up as you did it, because I dared to
disagree with the Brave and Intelligent Fluffy. WTF ever
'Show up in some of the religion threads if you want to see
flaming, noob.'
--Ouch, oh that hurt. Anonymous internet toughguy called me a noob,
what am I to do. And just to be clear, I could give a rats a55
about flames, I just don't like stupid ones. However after reading
more of your stuff, i've started to appreciate them - I'll make
sure I look for your replies when I'm want someone to laugh at.
Fluffy|6.13.08 @ 1:07PM|#
Bill,
I would take your complaints about my posting style more seriously
if you actually contributed around here. But I frankly have no idea
who you are, and I know who everybody around here is, because I
post a lot.
You can make fun of that if you like, and talk about how I waste
time here if you want to. I really don't care. As far as I am
concerned, you're just some asshole who wandered here to defend the
neocon psychopaths at LGF, and your concern trolling and "I read
Reason all the time" posts are really weak.
And by the way, SuprKufr, the Patriarch Abraham also owned slaves.
And he raped at least one that we know of. Actually, the Bible
indicates that God ordered him to rape his slave. Additionally,
when this slave ran away, God sent an angel to be a sort of
fugitive slave catcher. So I guess it's hard to know if God would
have gotten all busted up about Muhammad owning slaves or not.
an onni mus|6.13.08 @ 2:47PM|#
Its a certification of live birth. Not a birth certificate. It isn't contemporaneous but after the fact. It is a certification that he was born in Hawaii. The actual birth certificate would include more info. THe hospital, doctors name, RELGIOUS PREFERENCE etc.
|6.13.08 @ 2:59PM|#
Apparently, my apostasy has never been an issue the dozens
of times I've traveled to Arab countries before, but I'll watch my
back in the future.
What?!?!
Muslims can be secular and liberals?!?!
Shit man you need to inform the Democrat party cuz they really
think that is an impossibility.
|6.13.08 @ 3:08PM|#
Whatever, pinhead. I'm not interested in your
threadjack.
Abominable behavior by Johnson. Weigel actually singles him out for
taking a reasonable position on this and trying to lead his
commenters out of their conspiratorial lunacy, but that's not good
enough, because Weigel didn't engage in enough Rah Rah Team Red
Kos-bashing. Pathetic - just as pathetic as the wingnut "guests"
flooding the comments here.
First the thread is dead, so it can't be a threadjack.
Second Weigel is not fucked because he does not bash Kos on
this...he is fucked because this is a non-story and anyone with a
brain knows that the rumors are bullshit....republicans
included.
Third Kos bashing is welcome on any thread.
|6.13.08 @ 3:14PM|#
"Yeah and my friend that cheated on her husband is supposed to
be stoned, according to the Bible, what's your point? "
Yeah....the difference is when was the last time the Christian
Church advocated "stoning" ? Cool for you to flit in and out of
those Arab countries without watching your back but what if you
lived there ? You don't even know what islam is do you ? Hey I tell
you what, I'll openly carry a Koran into any US airport and you
brandish a Bible in Saudi Arabia....then come back and tell us
islam "is not evil or anything".
Butthead|6.13.08 @ 10:57PM|#
hey Beavis, this guy said we could score with, like, a million virgins if we blow some stuff up.
Beavis|6.13.08 @ 10:58PM|#
Whoa, cool! FIRE! Heh heh!FIREFIREFIREIFIRE!
Heh heh, virgins, FIRE, boingoingoingoing!
Thomas E. Anderson II|6.13.08 @ 11:01PM|#
Beavis and Butthead,
Hain't yew them two kids that have been..hwhackin' off in my
toolshed?
|6.14.08 @ 1:44AM|#
I could not leave the country with out a official hospital birth
Certificate.
Obama is running for the president.
where is his original hospital birth
certificate ????
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