Tennessee for Miles and Miles and Miles...

Nick Gillespie | June 2, 2008

Columnist Ron Hart gets his Tennessee dander (?) up over Barack Obama's Illinois dander getting up over an ad attacking his wife (Obama's; not Hart's; yes, very confusing, apology offered in advance):

I love my native Tennessee.

We did not vote for Al Gore when he ran for president, sealing his loss. A local libertarian group broke the story of his home in Nashville using 10 times the average energy bill. Citizens also stormed the legislature when it tried to implement an income tax. You have to appreciate that.

And now, Tennessee Republicans have fired the first salvo that will define the campaign for the presidency. Their ad, raising the issue of Barack's wife's comment on the campaign trail made in 2008 that "For the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my country, " together with Obama's condescending remark that the people of small town America "cling to guns, or religion or antipathy to people who are not like them or anti-immigration..." are all fair questions....

Hart concludes:

We Southerners do not appreciate being talked down to by a Northern, never-had-a-real-job politician who wants to please everyone. To paraphrase a Southern saying: don't appease on our shoes and tell us it is raining.

They call Tennessee the Volunteer State, because people do not have to live there; they choose too—small towns and all.

Hart predicts that small-town-dwellers all over this land will reject Obama. Whole thing there.

Note: From 2000 to 2006, Tennessee's population growth was slower than the U.S. average, so folks are volunteering, but not at a breakneck pace.

I think Obama's small-town remarks were pretty awful, and the whole thing about his uncle at Auschwitz strikes me as the sort of thing a conservative Republican would really get beaten up over.

But what do you think, gentle Hit & Run readers, is Mrs. Obama fair game? Will Obama pay a price for his alleged elitism? Do people really choose to live in small towns?

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|6.2.08 @ 9:32AM|#

never-had-a-real-job politician

OW! That would actually mean something if there was a once-had-a-real-job politician in the race.

Episiarch|6.2.08 @ 9:37AM|#

But what do you think, gentle Hit & Run readers, is Mrs. Obama fair game?

It doesn't matter what we think; this is politics, she is opening her mouth, so of course she will be gone after.

Do people really choose to live in small towns?

According to John "Cougar" Mellencamp, they do, but he doesn't.

|6.2.08 @ 9:38AM|#

They call Tennessee the Volunteer State, because people do not have to live there; they choose too-small towns and all.

As opposed to the other 49 states, where they surround each municipality with barbed wire to prevent emigration.

You read a lot of dumb things on the internet, but that right there sets the pace for the rest of the week.

Guy Montag|6.2.08 @ 9:39AM|#

Citizens also stormed the legislature when it tried to implement an income tax.

Actually, that was an annual event for several years.

But what do you think, gentle Hit & Run readers, is Mrs. Obama fair game?

Of course, but the campaign and certain media will still strive to give her "immunity" because she is not the candidate, although she choses to comment on the campaign.

Will Obama pay a price for his alleged elitism?

Yes, but you won't see much of that price until election day. It will be ignored or excused by certain media, the types who identify with that brand of elitism.

Do people really choose to live in small towns?

Um, yes Nick. Don't you go back to one every summer all on your own rather than being ordered there by some government body or corporate "overlord"? Perhaps a "legal" spouse could count, but I would require more information on that theory to be convibced ;)

Well, there is the notion that i hear from some that small towns are difficult to "escape" from and many are run by a small gorup of thuggish business people (who, oddly enough, become victims when Wal*Mart or Home Depot come to town), but lits of people take that "Road House" movie a little too seriously.

Warren,

OW! That would actually mean something if there was a once-had-a-real-job politician in the race.

I thought being a Naval Aviator counted as a real job? Even if it was flying fixed-wings.

|6.2.08 @ 9:41AM|#

I think the Auschwitz story has already run its course: turns out it was a great uncle and Buchenwald, which is about as bad as saying grampa played football at Ohio State when it was grampa's brother who went to Ohio. Sure Auschwitz was liberated by the Soviets, but Obama probably first heard the story when he was in grade school, heard it from family members who made the same mistake he did, and repeated it as fact when it clearly wasn't. If that's anywhere as damning as McCain's misstatements concerning Iranian training camps for Sunni terrorists, you really need to rethink any perceived ability to make non-partisan judgments.

As to the issue of elitism: Obama can tell his stories of growing up middle class and working his way up and McCain can talk about his wife's estates and his ten homes. McCain probably doesn't want to make elitism an issue, plus his pill-popping and charity-skimming wife would probably not appreciate much attention being placed on candidate spouses.

But no matter what, rural America will always feel left out. That's part of its mystique, and it's what makes politicians visit it when they need a good photo-op.

Taktix&#174|6.2.08 @ 9:41AM|#

But what do you think, gentle Hit & Run readers, is Mrs. Obama fair game?

Yes,(See: 1st Amendment) and in good taste because she's out campaigning. I could see putting her off-limits in a gentleman's agreement if she was sitting at home crocheting mittens. But if she puts herself out there on the campaign, she's got to handle criticism.

Sorry, you can't have it both ways.

Will Obama pay a price for his alleged elitism?

Probably, but it depends on how much McCain can play up a "folksy good-ol-boy" image, which I don't see happening anytime soon.

Do people really choose to live in small towns?

Yes, they're called hicks. (NTTAWWT)

|6.2.08 @ 9:42AM|#

I thought being a Naval Aviator counted as a real job?
The military is not even close to a real job.

Colin Clout|6.2.08 @ 9:43AM|#

Was any Democratic candidate going to win significantly in the rural areas of the country?

Taktix&#174|6.2.08 @ 9:46AM|#

According to John "Cougar" Mellencamp, they do, but he doesn't.

Uhh, the seventh-largest city, in Indiana, doesn't exactly paint the picture of "big city."

Guy Montag|6.2.08 @ 9:47AM|#

Warren,

Now you are just being silly.

|6.2.08 @ 9:47AM|#

What does "fair game" even mean? It's one of those terms that's used not to clarify meaning, but to blur several different points together, so that someone who demonstrates one of those points can behave as if the rest has been demonstrated as well.

In this case, the point is to demonstrate that Mrs. Obama has been used as a public speaker, so she can justly be treated as a public figure as opposed to a private person (in terms of press hounding and whatnot), then, by using the term "fair game," stretch that uncontroversial point into a justification for all sorts of slimy treatment, and cry "Fair Game! Fair Game!" if anyone calls foul.]]

Of course, Barack Obama doesn't actually expect his "warning" to change the treatment of his wife by the media and his political opponents. It's just good optics for a man to be seen defending his wife's honor, and it helps to cast the attacks on her in a negative light.

|6.2.08 @ 9:48AM|#

The military is not even close to a real job.

O RLY?

robc|6.2.08 @ 9:48AM|#

Colin,

Obama might do well in rural black areas.

So thats: parts of Mississippi and, ummm, other parts of Mississippi.

But what do you think, gentle Hit & Run readers, is Mrs. Obama fair game?

If she is out there campaigning, then she is fair game.

Will Obama pay a price for his alleged elitism?

On net? Probably, although his elitism/campus liberalism is what seals his nomination and nails down the base.

Do people really choose to live in small towns?

Of course they do. This is America. Everyone chooses where they live.

AmcG|6.2.08 @ 9:49AM|#

Since First Lady is now a step on the road to President, then yes, a candidate's spouse has to be factor.

Obama's not to blame for that development, but it affects him just the same...

Taktix&#174|6.2.08 @ 9:49AM|#

Uhh, waiter, can I have a glass of water sent to Warren's table.

I think he may need to wash down the foot in his mouth.

|6.2.08 @ 9:50AM|#

If I was a more cycnical type, I'd suspect that Barack Obama deliberately said the name of the wrong concentration camp, so that the story about his uncle liberating a German concentration camp would get a few more days of press, while the people going after him for it keep loudly shooting themselves in the foot.

Guy Montag|6.2.08 @ 9:50AM|#

robc,

Oh, come on now. That is a bit unfair. He will do great in rural areas dominated by Harvard grads too, perhaps even Yale grads.

Guy Montag|6.2.08 @ 9:53AM|#

On the technical point of the 'rurality' of USAia, didn't the population finally shift to the majority living in cities in the 1990s? Has that reversed or lessened?

|6.2.08 @ 9:54AM|#

"Real job" is another such term.

Does it mean, "job where you had to work hard?" Work hard physically, or do long hours at a desk count?

Does it mean, subject to the rought-and-tumble of the market?

How does meritocracy come into it?

It can mean all of these things, and the point of the term is to jumble them all together.

Guy,
No I'm serious. The absence of needing to make a profit, along with several other significant differences (you can be sentenced to prison for not doing your job e.g.) make the military fundamentally different from what I would call a "real job".

I'm not saying that Naval Aviator doesn't require things like, hard work, dedication, and education. I'm just saying that the environment is divorced from "free minds and free markets".

Colin Clout|6.2.08 @ 9:54AM|#

So, which is worse, elitism or populism?

robc|6.2.08 @ 9:54AM|#

Guy,

But probably not Dartmouth grads.

Taktix&#174|6.2.08 @ 9:55AM|#

joe,

I agree that Obama's crocodile tears about his wife's treatment... it's just political calculation.

But you seem to be awful trusting of politicians. If Michele Obama can't handle criticism now, how the hell is she going to manage it over the next 4-8 years?

Look; politicians are politicians. Every fingernail clipping has some political purpose, and no aspect of any politician should be off limits. It's not just our right, but our duty to scrutinize every aspect of a politician, especially one that holds a great deal of influence over the candidate...

Fluffy|6.2.08 @ 9:55AM|#

Gillespie, you need to put the crack pipe down if you're trying to assert that Republicans get more "beat up" for gaffes than Democrats.

John McCain doesn't know the difference between Shia and Sunni, doesn't know the difference between Al Qaeda and Iran, and doesn't know who runs Iran's foreign policy. And those are just a few highlights of his long-running parade of absurd basic errors. And I heard more in the mainstream press about the Auschwitz error than all of McCain's dementia moments [or deliberate bullshit, take your pick] put together.

I did find it a little shocking that Obama didn't know basic facts about European geography and WWII history, but McCain gets a complete free pass for his boners. Ask your buddy Welch about it.

Steve|6.2.08 @ 9:55AM|#

Yes, Yes, and Yes.

|6.2.08 @ 9:55AM|#

I'm just a typical white person, so I wouldn't know.

Obama, anointed one he may be, is capable of saying incredibly stupid shit, and so is his wife. I've never encountered a human being who wasn't.

To answer your questions:

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes

|6.2.08 @ 9:56AM|#

Guy,

Sorta. The measurement wasn't "cities vs. non-cities" as we'd think of it, but "metropolitan areas vs. outside of metropolitan areas."

Some of the small towns in West Virginia, for example, are considered to be in the DC metropolitan area.

robc|6.2.08 @ 9:56AM|#

joe,

Does it mean, subject to the rought(sic)-and-tumble of the market?

Based on Warren's simulpost, yes, in part.

Taktix&#174|6.2.08 @ 9:57AM|#

I'm not saying that Naval Aviator doesn't require things like, hard work, dedication, and education. I'm just saying that the environment is divorced from "free minds and free markets".

Free minds and free markets don't exist without the basic means to protect them...

Guy Montag|6.2.08 @ 9:57AM|#

But probably not Dartmouth grads.

Is that where Warren whent to school? I do not recall meeting any of them in a military capacity during my 29 years of being around this stuff, but my sample would be limited, of course.

|6.2.08 @ 9:59AM|#

Taktix,

What makes you think Michelle Obama can't handle criticism? I think she's handled it just fine. You don't seem to have understood, rather than "trusting politicians," I'm talking about the "Don't pick on my wife!" thing as very savvy way of handling that criticism.

Look; politicians are politicians. *rolls eyes* Unless they're Ron Paul. I really don't need this lecture.

I'm just saying that the environment is divorced from "free minds and free markets".

Eh, other than the "prison if I try to leave", "real training/more education", and "15-month deployments to Iraq", it feels a lot like working at Taco Bell.

robc|6.2.08 @ 9:59AM|#

Guy,

Is that where Warren whent to school?

No clue. I was just making an Ivy League joke, and Dartmouth seemed like the right choice.

Episiarch|6.2.08 @ 9:59AM|#

Uhh, the seventh-largest city, in Indiana, doesn't exactly paint the picture of "big city."

I didn't say one word about "big city". Would you call 70,000 people a small town?

Guy Montag|6.2.08 @ 10:01AM|#

The real way for a woman to handle criticism is to complain about the boys ganging up and picking on her, like Mrs. Clinton did. Then she sent her husband out to yell at everybody about it too, so she had good prior planning.

|6.2.08 @ 10:01AM|#

Gillespie, you need to put the crack pipe down if you're trying to assert that Republicans get more "beat up" for gaffes than Democrats.

Fluffy,

Nick wrote that because a right-wing politican (Ronald Reagan) who made up a story about personally liberating a concentration camp got treated worse than a liberal politician (Barack Obama) who misstated the details of a true story about his great-uncle liberating a concentration camp.

|6.2.08 @ 10:02AM|#

Do people really choose to live in small towns?

Yup. The FedEx guy knows where I live. And there's this weird magical tube thingy whut comes right to my house (no wires, or nuthin'!) that allows me to keep track of what's happening in ~~civilization~~ the netherworld.

Of course Mrs Obama is fair game, and when she starts rambling about the EvilCorpConspiracy keeping the po'folk down, that should be trumpeted from the ramparts. Or shot through the tubes.

thoreau|6.2.08 @ 10:03AM|#

I'm willing to forgive anything and everything that Michelle Obama says in return for a solemn promise to never seek the Presidential nomination for herself.

Or at least a promise that if she ever does seek the nomination she knows when to fucking quit already.

|6.2.08 @ 10:03AM|#

We did not vote for Al Gore when he ran for president, sealing his loss.

Ha ha, how did that work out for ya!

robc|6.2.08 @ 10:04AM|#

Episiarch,

If you avoid the U, hell yes, Bloomington is a small town. By some definition of small. Im a city boy, so my scale may be different.

There are much smaller towns, Ive spent some significant time in some of them, but I still consider Bloomington small. Okay, smallish.

Guy Montag|6.2.08 @ 10:04AM|#

Art,

Just tried to find you on AKO, but there are a BUNCH of fols with your linked name :(

folks*

JohnD|6.2.08 @ 10:06AM|#

So Warren, you don't consider being a career Officer that risked his life flying combat missions as having a "real job"?

What the hell do you do for a living? Write for a 2 bit newspaper or magazine? You're not fit to wash Mcain's dirty underwear, you moron.

Taktix&#174|6.2.08 @ 10:10AM|#

*rolls eyes* Unless they're Ron Paul. I really don't need this lecture.

Who?

Colin Clout|6.2.08 @ 10:10AM|#

I can't wait until the election is over, that way we can start commenting on one or the other exclusively.

Episiarch|6.2.08 @ 10:10AM|#

There are much smaller towns, Ive spent some significant time in some of them, but I still consider Bloomington small. Okay, smallish.

70,000 people is not a "small town" in the sense of what Mellencamp was singing about.

|6.2.08 @ 10:13AM|#

Just like a socialist Democrat, he wants to control our thoughts and independence, moving us toward a monolithic group of PC lemmings marching to his every command.

Damn. At least I can take comfort in the fact that no Republican politician would try to infringe on my rights.

Furthermore, Obama's appeal is to idealistic college students who have yet to get a paycheck with taxes taken out. In short, I am not sure how much stock we should put in the decision of these kids to support Barack since we, as a society, do not think they have enough sense to be allowed to drink an alcoholic beverage yet.

When I was in college, the vast majority of kids had jobs or had worked before. Granted, most of us did not have to support ourselves, but wait till the student loans come up...and that's leaving aside how dumb the legal drinking age is. PFC Ross McGinnis gave his life for his country, won a Medal of Honor...and is not old enough to drink in the States. Also, everyone I know (except the Muslims and the Mormons) had alcohol before they were 21.

In short, Obama has no right to make up the rules of politics as he goes along, especially when it only serves him and his naïve view of the world.

I don't even know what this means. I guess he's naive cause he's young and not as experienced as McCain.

|6.2.08 @ 10:14AM|#

I didn't say one word about "big city". Would you call 70,000 people a small town?

Yes. I lived in South Bend for grad school (#4 in Indiana) and it felt plenty small to me. It's not "population of my high school" small, but 70,000 is pretty small.

I love how Southerners feel that they matter in elections. They don't. The South is the Republican version of the Northeast. The Rs get the South and Texas, the Ds get the Northeast and California and the real battle happens in the Midwest and Mountain West (plus PA and FL). Though VA is likely up for grabs this year, partly because VA is a hybrid of Southern and Northeastern due to the DC 'burbs.

Oh, calling someone's great-uncle "uncle" is pretty common and misremembering Auschwitz for Buchenwald is pretty small potatoes.

Colin Clout|6.2.08 @ 10:14AM|#

A lot of folks think that we might see a flood of superdelegates declare before the day is over.

|6.2.08 @ 10:15AM|#

I think it is Howard Dean's wife who never appears at campaign stops for him and pretty much stays out of the limelight. Chairman Dean's wife is legitimately out of bounds. If a politician's spouse is going to be out giving stump speeches then she ought to be held accountable for what she says and thinks. If what she says is irrelevant and no reflection on the candidate, why is she out giving stump speeches?

I am starting to think that Obama is just not that bright or at least doesn't think particularly well on his feet when he doesn't have scripted material. It is not just the Auszwitz gaff. It is the "all 57 states" gaffe and the Arkansas being closer to Kentucky than Illinois gaffe. It is not difficult to see how badly the media would have mauled Bob Dole or Dan Quail or either Bush for such gaffes.

He has utterly mishandled the Wright affair. The philosopher Husserl talks about the phenomenology of an event. The idea is that the truth about something is never known in moment but is revealed through time. The Obama Philadelphia speech makes me think that perhaps Husserl had a point. At the time it was hailed as a brilliant speech that diffused the issue. As time has revealed the truth, the speech looks now to be a disaster for Obama that did nothing but tie him to a moon bat church for another two months giving said moon bats ample opportunities to embarrass him and just needlessly delayed his inevitable break from the church.

|6.2.08 @ 10:17AM|#

Pardon my ignorance. please. Is the declaration of a superdelegate the final word or is it something that can change at the convention?

My name appears on AKO the exact same way my Hotmail name appears. I just ask that you don't have me put under investigation ;)

folks* fools. Fixed it for ya ;)

Colin Clout|6.2.08 @ 10:18AM|#

brotherben,

It is my understanding that they can change their position at any time.

Taktix&#174|6.2.08 @ 10:20AM|#

It is the "all 57 states" gaffe and the Arkansas being closer to Kentucky than Illinois gaffe.

I will vote McCain over Obama, but it's a bit unfair to attack these statements. Regarding the first one, should we criticize the Beatles for the song "8 days a week?"

As for the second, I don't assume he was talking about geographically close.

|6.2.08 @ 10:21AM|#

*and is was* not old enough to drink in the States @19

|6.2.08 @ 10:22AM|#

So if they collectively decide Hillary Clinton is more electable in Nov. they can abandon Obama in the best interest of the party?

|6.2.08 @ 10:23AM|#

I will vote McCain over Obama,

...as long as he doesn't make Huckabee VP. You can thank me later for fixing that, Taktix. ;)

Fluffy|6.2.08 @ 10:24AM|#

It's not just our right, but our duty to scrutinize every aspect of a politician, especially one that holds a great deal of influence over the candidate...

Hey, I can accept that.

We need to scrutinize the wives of the candidates because they are in a position to exercise great influence over the candidates.

So we can rightfully talk about Michelle Obama's opinions.

Of course, that talk should be balanced by an equal amount of talk about how McCain's wife is a pillhead thief, who demonstrated her influence over McCain by making sure he used his political power to try to minimize the penalty she paid for being a pilllhead thief, and by making sure he used his political power to try to intimidate a whistleblower who came forward to point out that she was a pillhead thief.

|6.2.08 @ 10:24AM|#

brotherben,
No at any time = until the convention. The convention is the shit or get off the pot day

|6.2.08 @ 10:25AM|#

I will vote McCain over Obama, but it's a bit unfair to attack these statements. Regarding the first one, should we criticize the Beatles for the song "8 days a week?"

I don't think it was a rhetorical flourish or was it? Was he talking about the primaries? Even if you throw in PR, Guam and the USVIs, I don't see how you get to 57.

Everyone knows the rules of the game. If he were a Republican he would have been hammered as being stupid. If you are going to run for the nomination of a party that claims to have a monopoly on intelligence and mercilessly pounds the other party for small gaffes, you better not make any of those gaffes yourself.

|6.2.08 @ 10:26AM|#

I believe so, but obviously that would cause a lot of problems, too.

Taktix&#174|6.2.08 @ 10:27AM|#

...as long as he doesn't make Huckabee VP. You can thank me later for fixing that, Taktix. ;)

That's assuming I had a gun to my head and had to choose between the two.

I'm still reluctantly voting for Barr, and maybe waving a sign or two for the LP.

If Huckabee manages to weasel his way into the presidency, I'll shoot the fucker myself...

Fluffy|6.2.08 @ 10:27AM|#

If he were a Republican he would have been hammered as being stupid. If you are going to run for the nomination of a party that claims to have a monopoly on intelligence and mercilessly pounds the other party for small gaffes, you better not make any of those gaffes yourself.

Please direct me to evidence of the hammering McCain got for saying that Al Qaeda in Iraq was sponsored by Iran.

Not the blogger hammering, not the Kos hammering, but the wide-circulation print and major news network hammering he got for it.

|6.2.08 @ 10:28AM|#

Erp, not Nov., I meant Convention. What Mo said.

Art-P.O.G,

yup, it's a big ole kettle a crap, no matter how ya cook it.

Colin Clout|6.2.08 @ 10:28AM|#

John,

If he were a Republican he would have been hammered as being stupid.

Republicans make verbal gaffes all the time which are not covered significantly by the press.

Colin|6.2.08 @ 10:29AM|#

At the Campaign Spot on NRO, they're reporting that some dude claims that there's a tape of Michelle chastising "whitey" on the same stage as Farrakhan.

|6.2.08 @ 10:32AM|#

Fluffy,

There is the Atlantic, http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/irans_helping_sunnis_or_shiite.php

MSNBC, http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/08/869803.aspx

Washington Post http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/03/18/a_mccain_gaffe_in_jordan.html

ABC

blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/mccain-stumbles.html - 159k -

That mainstream enough for you? Further, lets talk about Quale not being able to spell Potatoe or Bush I not knowing what a super market scanner was. If Obama were a Republican the meme would be that he is stupid.

Taktix&#174|6.2.08 @ 10:32AM|#

I don't get why you guys assume a Repub or a Dem will get hammered more for gaffes. The punditry class has a big-enough tent now, and both candidates will have people attacking them relentlessly for their misstatements.

They need this, in fact, to distract us from both candidates' views.

Oh, calling someone's great-uncle "uncle" is pretty common and misremembering Auschwitz for Buchenwald is pretty small potatoes.

I would agree with that. I would also note that no one has fact-checked the point of the story - that his (great-)uncle hid in the attic for six months after he got back.

|6.2.08 @ 10:33AM|#

"At the Campaign Spot on NRO, they're reporting that some dude claims that there's a tape of Michelle chastising "whitey" on the same stage as Farrakhan."

There have been rumors about that tape for a while. I heard that Hillary's camp has had it for months but have been holding it back as a nuclear option.

|6.2.08 @ 10:36AM|#

Please direct me to evidence of the hammering McCain got for saying that Al Qaeda in Iraq was sponsored by Iran.

You mean, like this?

Fluffy|6.2.08 @ 10:37AM|#

John,

Three blogs.

Most material on FirstRead does not make it on to the air. The same is true of the ABC blog.

Ambinder is a blogger for a second tier magazine.

And there was never a meme claiming Bush I was stupid. Not for a second. The supermarket scanner story was an amusing anecdote not because it implied stupidity, but because it implied he'd been in one office or another, with servants and valets paid for by the taxpayer, for so long that he had no clue about basic changes in shopping that literally every other American knew about. Bush I had lot of verbal tics and committed the occasional gaffe, but no one ever called him stupid.

|6.2.08 @ 10:37AM|#

Further, lets talk about Quale not being able to spell

I need a judge's ruling on this? Is mis-spelling Dan Quayle's name an instance of joe'z law?

Fluffy|6.2.08 @ 10:38AM|#

R C Dean,

That's a link to a MediaMatters item pointing out that McCain was NOT getting hammered for his gaffe.

Fluffy|6.2.08 @ 10:39AM|#

Yeah, Joe's law has struck again. One point to R C Dean for the spot.

Colin Clout|6.2.08 @ 10:40AM|#

John,

If said tape existed it would be on the tubes.

|6.2.08 @ 10:42AM|#

Fluffy,
Correct that the supermarket scanner thing* was a "Bush is a Yalie elitist" dig, not an intelligence one.

If the Atlantic counts as a source for McCain getting hammered, does the National Review count as one too? In that case, Obama has been hammered for his 57 states comment as well.

* Which looking back was unfair. Apparently, it was next-gen really cool scanners that he was looking at.

Fluffy,

Those are three stories written by MSM reporters in mainstream magazines. Yes, they are called blogs but they are still the MSM. They are a hell of a lot more important and widely read than some moron on KOS. Just because the MSM is calling its coverage "blogs" now doesn't diminish the importance of their coverage.

The meme on Bush was that he was senile and out of touch with reality. I guess you can call that "not being called stupid" but it strikes me as a pretty meaningless distinction. You not going to admit you are wrong, so I will stop wasting my time with you. But name me one Republican with as mediocre as Al Gore who was ever called smart? Al Gore was the son of a senator and a law school drop out. Yet he is a "genius". The meme is always Democrats are smart Republicans are dumb except when Republicans are so smart you can't call them dumb in which case Republicans are either evil, out of touch or both.

Colin Clout|6.2.08 @ 10:43AM|#

R.C. Dean,

If you return to that link and look at the sidebar titled 'LATEST ITEMS" you might find something interesting.

|6.2.08 @ 10:44AM|#

"John,

If said tape existed it would be on the tubes."

It may soon be there. We will see. I would say it is better than 50 50 that it exists.

|6.2.08 @ 10:49AM|#

Did people think Al Gore was a genuis? I never have or did. I think they thought he was a bit "wonkish" and that came from people reading his books/articles and hearing him speak. If you go back and look at the debates between Gore and Bush there's an obvious intellectual difference. This is why Bush wanted few debates. His own people knew he came off as unintelligent compared to Gore.

I don't remember people thinking Bush I was dumb. Strange, yes. Dumb, no. The guy ran the CIA.

What is Joe's law?

Fox News is mainstream, right? It's the most watched cable news network? In that case, it did get air on a major news network.

Colin Clout|6.2.08 @ 10:50AM|#

John,

Based on what exactly?

|6.2.08 @ 10:53AM|#

"The meme is always Democrats are smart Republicans are dumb except when Republicans are so smart you can't call them dumb in which case Republicans are either evil, out of touch or both."

But Republicans have courted this image. They've railed against "pointy-headed intellectuals" and "liberal college professors." They've courted the South (not exactly known currently as a bastion of professionals and intellectuals). They've donned plaid shirts and climbed into pick upt trucks for photo ops.

When I lived in Virginia I remember Chuck Robb vs. Oliver North. In North's commercials he wore a plaid shirt and jeans, strolled around on a farm, and praised his wife's "flap-jacks." Robb wore a tailored suit and tie, appeared in his law office, and used words like "ideological" in his ads.

Colin Clout|6.2.08 @ 10:55AM|#

Mo,

Yeah, I also remember it as "Bush is an elitist" deal not that he was stupid or senile.

____________________________________

John,

Since a "meme" is a unit of social knowledge if folks are remembering it as an issue of "elitism" rather than "stupidity" then the former is correct at least for those who are remembering it as the former.

Fluffy|6.2.08 @ 10:55AM|#

The meme on Bush was that he was senile and out of touch with reality. I guess you can call that "not being called stupid" but it strikes me as a pretty meaningless distinction.

Right, except for the distinction that it had nothing to do with being called stupid, it's utterly meaningless.

Next up, John will talk about the meaningless distinction being drawn between cats and dogs, and between eating ice cream and having a red hot pocker shoved up your ass.

But name me one Republican with as mediocre as Al Gore who was ever called smart?

Reagan.

Great man, first-class political instincts, admirable in many ways ideologically - but utterly provincial, uncurious, and a mediocre intellect at best.

I also think Jack Kemp was the Republican version of Gore - he was pretty mediocre, but because he was "wonky" he was thought of as really brilliant.

And you're soooooooo right - nobody ever thought Michael Deaver, James Baker, Richard Nixon, or George Herbert Walker Bush was smart. Never ever.

Look, I'll certainly grant you that Obama gets "bonus IQ points" by the media and the public at large because of his speech pattern, and W gets IQ points deducted because of his. But 1) it's hardly the pervasive pattern your resentments tell you it is, and 2) W has deliberately assumed the manner of a good old boy for effect, and since he's freely chosen to make himself look like a sap [or at least to accentuate it] I don't feel badly for him when his put-on works.

|6.2.08 @ 10:58AM|#

fwiw, a quick search shows that Mr. Hart's assertion that Tennessee is the "volunteer state" because folks are willingly moving and staying there is factually inaccurate. I must therefore conclude that the rest of his article is incorrect, pandering, politicized bullshit

|6.2.08 @ 11:00AM|#

My parents (who still live there) sent me clippings of the Tim Kaine v. Jerry Kilgore governors race. Kaine was a former mayor of the capital city. He was an urban guy. He wore suits and talked fancy and extolled his professional record. Kilgore was from the rural country. He wore (what else) plaid shirts. He talked with a heavy accent. And he avoided debates, over and over.

I don't live in the South anymore, so I don't see it as much here. But the South is the center of the GOP remember, so their image is greatly effected by how they act there.

The GOP works hard to adopt a populists "we're nuthin' fancy" image and then complains that they are seen as not intellectual. Jesus.

thoreau | June 2, 2008, 10:03am | #

I'm willing to forgive anything and everything that Michelle Obama says in return for a solemn promise to never seek the Presidential nomination for herself.

Hey, if wants to run for City Council, and then Lt. Governor, and then Congress, and a few years later finds that she polls well in the Democratic primary, I wouldn't have a problem with her running for presdident.

That would be a nice change of pace, as these things go.

|6.2.08 @ 11:06AM|#

RC,

Further, lets talk about Quale not being able to spell

I need a judge's ruling on this? Is mis-spelling Dan Quayle's name an instance of joe'z law?

In this case, the writer was not insulting someone's intelligence, so no. However, there is enough of a joez-esque quality present that RC's Law starts to kick in.

|6.2.08 @ 11:08AM|#

joez Law of Teh Internetz:

When you write a comment on a blog thread insulting someone's intelligence, you will make a spelling error that makes you look like an idiot.

E.g., "Get a Brain, Morans!"

|6.2.08 @ 11:09AM|#

I did live for a time on Oklahoma during the Coburn-Carson Senate race. If you ever get a chance to look at some of the Coburn-Carson debates you'll see what I'm talking about. Carson played the part of an ultimate professional and public servant. He wanted more and more debates, and he performed well in them. Coburn was terrible, and he made insane statements (like that the bathrooms of OK City schools were bastions of lesbianism).

Of course, in OK the latter image is a more winning one. The GOP embraced it there, and in many places. And then bitches about being seen as anti-intellectual. They can't have it both ways...

|6.2.08 @ 11:11AM|#

" did live for a time on Oklahoma during "

Damn Joez Law of Teh Internetz!

Taktix&#174|6.2.08 @ 11:19AM|#

Coburn was terrible, and he made insane statements (like that the bathrooms of OK City schools were bastions of lesbianism).

*enters Oklahoma into Orbitz search engine*

Hmm...

Rhywun|6.2.08 @ 11:38AM|#

And then bitches about being seen as anti-intellectual.

*America* is basically anti-intellectual, which is how we got the ludicrous spectacle of Hillary folksing it up recently. If Obama continues to just play himself and ignores whining, insecure Southerners like Ron Hart, I'll be really impressed.

|6.2.08 @ 11:41AM|#

Don't miss this summer's hilarious teen-tease blockbuster:

"Fast Times at OkieCity High"

Written, produced, and starring: Taktix (R)

|6.2.08 @ 11:43AM|#

It would be fall-down-on-the-floor funny if Barack Obama tried to dress up in camo and go duck huntin'. I don't think that's going to happen.

Naw, it's cool, Barack. Just go out into the woods with Jethro, Billy, Big Hank, Little Hank, and Dwight. It's cool, they've all got shotguns.

What's the matter?

|6.2.08 @ 12:31PM|#

Hell yes, she's fair game. As was Geraldine Ferraro's husband. As is McCains wife. As is Hillary's co-president. As was Jefferson's mistress. That line was crossed a couple hundred years ago.

Does anyone think that Mary Todd Lincoln's name didn't come up in 1860? If you don't want your family brought into the mud wrestling arena, don't enter the tournament.*

*Minor children are off limits. That will cost you my vote in a nanosecond.

Taktix&#174|6.2.08 @ 12:37PM|#

Don't miss this summer's hilarious teen-tease blockbuster:

"Fast Times at OkieCity High"

Written, produced, and starring: Taktix (R)

I'm still looking for a casting director...

|6.2.08 @ 12:46PM|#

Hart is the best libertarian humorist writing today. He is dead on with this. And the Volunteer comment --is a joke dumb ass.

We get his column here and everyone seemes to love it. He is dead on.

taktix,

maybe bill dance?

Gilbert Martin|6.2.08 @ 1:12PM|#

"But what do you think, gentle Hit & Run readers, is Mrs. Obama fair game?"

Of course she's fair game.

Obama sent her out to campaign for him and she is running around making political speeches and saying things like "Obama is going to require you to work", etc.

Obama seems to think he is entitled to determine what can and cannot be discussed in the campaign. Nobody was supposed to talk about Rev Wright, nobody is supposed to label him a "liberal" (even though that is exactly what he is), nobody is supposed to say anything about his wife, etc, ect.

Sorry but it doesn't work that way.

Guy Montag|6.2.08 @ 1:47PM|#

Art,

My name appears on AKO the exact same way my Hotmail name appears.

Found it! Check your mail, I said hello.

Guy Montag|6.2.08 @ 1:50PM|#

Does anyone think that Mary Todd Lincoln's name didn't come up in 1860? If you don't want your family brought into the mud wrestling arena, don't enter the tournament.

JsD wins with the hidden death threat theme of today's election linked to the past!

|6.2.08 @ 2:02PM|#

and for a not so hidden threat, check out the 10:27 a.m. post from Taktix

Guy Montag|6.2.08 @ 2:09PM|#

brotherben,

Missed that one, but subtlty gets more points when I am casting the only thread-winner vote :)

[uber-dooper Leftist conspiracy nut voice]

Now, let's review:

1. Mrs. Obama mentions that her husband coud be shot at a gas station (bringing back memories of the years-ago DC sniper shootings for some)

2. Mrs. Clinton has a photo-op at a gas station

3. Mrs. Clinton talks about a male Democrat candidate being assasinated in California

4. Mrs. Clinton picks Eight Bells to win a horse race, and the horse is murdered

5. ????

6. Sooper-dooper-secret-illuminiti delegates vote Hillary!

[/uber-dooper Leftist conspiracy nut voice]

|6.2.08 @ 2:54PM|#

5. she releases (anonymously of course) an old video of Obama from his crazy college days. The video is actually a equine bestiality snuff film entitled "Big Brown and the Mare of Detroit"

Danny|6.2.08 @ 2:55PM|#

Man, I don't even have the heart to take on these arguments. If this is the best oppo they've got, Obama is going to crush his opponent.

If Clinton had a nuclear bomb in her purse, wouldn't she have thrown it by now? Pulling it out after losing the nomination is just muturally assured destruction, it seems to me.

bubba|6.2.08 @ 3:15PM|#

I'm amused that this thread managed to include an accusation that John Cougar is a hypocrite for living in a metropolis of 70,000.

|6.2.08 @ 3:36PM|#

Do people really choose to live in small towns?

No they don't. Evil Rethuglicans round up big city folks in the middle of the night and relocate them to small towns. It's sad driving through these small towns and seeing people chained up and unable to leave.

Guy Montag|6.2.08 @ 3:48PM|#

Brandybuck,

So, the Wal*Mart is just a front for this activity?

|6.2.08 @ 4:46PM|#

Hart is funny as shit. You dumb asses that do not get the jokes should also get a life.
The South carries the elections, it is what matters. He is one of us in the South and we should heed his view of things.

The new PJ O'Rourke!!

Zeb|6.2.08 @ 4:59PM|#

I chose to live in a small town. And I don't cling to guns, more like lovingly caress. Fortunately the God folks around here keep a pretty low profile.

|6.2.08 @ 5:21PM|#

"So if they collectively decide Hillary Clinton is more electable in Nov. they can abandon Obama in the best interest of the party?"

They certainly can. The problem is that it seems to me that it would be general election suicide. I mean that would do a number on Democratic voter turnout that would be the GOP's wet dream. This is why the parties hate this kind of long drawn out primary. There is a fear, not exactly an unrealistic one either, that the longer this goes on, the more hurt feelings will result in lost votes.

Any polls favoring Clinton over McCain are inherently flawed because they are based on traditional turn-out percentages. Should the Dems take the nomination from Obama, it's easy to see how those turn-out percentages could wind up being grossly inaccurate.

|6.2.08 @ 6:06PM|#

|6.2.08 @ 11:26PM|#

I haven't seen a fucking gun rack for years

Many years ago (when I was living in Connecticut, of all places)I bought a Jeep pickup, which came with a gun rack in the rear window. I kept my lacrosse stick in it.

|6.3.08 @ 9:51AM|#

I don't understand why this site edits hate speech against every classification of people except southerners. I haven't seen a fucking gun rack for years, but somehow you northern idiots automatically believe we all have one. How about coming on down and witnessing why we're blowing your asses away economically.

Dude, you're the first one to bring up a gun rack. Oh and the only southern state in the top 20 of income is Virginia. 8 of the bottom 10 are southern states (plus Kentucky and Montana). What's your next assertion Mexico is economically better than the US?

|6.3.08 @ 9:55AM|#

Reason doesn't edit the comments. At all. Ever.

Quitcherbitchin.

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