It Feels Like a Hundred Years

David Weigel | April 7, 2008

I'm not surprised that the McCain campaign is getting opponents and reporters to back off the "100 years in Iraq" quote that's been dogging him. I was in the room when McCain said it, and I thought it was an entertaining tug-of-war between McCain and an anti-war questioner, not a campaign-shaking gaffe.

The wiggle room comes when McCain says he's okay with the 100 years "as long as our soldiers are not being wounded or maimed or killed." And that's where McCain's defenders have chosen to stand and fight. See, McCain doesn't want to fight a hot war for 100 years. He wants to have a base there until the Middle East stops producing threats to the U.S. To say otherwise is "an attack on McCain's character," as Michael Goldfarb puts it in that Weekly Standard link.

That's a dodge, though. It assumes that 1)there is nothing controversial about building permanent bases in Iraq, 2)that maintaining those bases would be completely positive effects on the region, and that 3)there's nothing wrong with a potential president telling the world we'll be in Iraq forever. Not much room for realpolitik there, eh? It's unfair to distort what McCain says, but it's wrong to portray this as harmless straight talk.

Headline explained here.

Comments

|4.7.08 @ 7:21PM|#

McCain also just said he doesn't want our troops there "a second longer than it takes to achieve or objectives".

At the same time, he "doesn't want Americans being wounded or killed".

So, we want to leave after we finish our objectives, and we don't want Americans to be wounded or killed. But advocating that we should leave because Americans are being wounded or killed is "surrender". WTF?

Nash|4.7.08 @ 7:28PM|#

It's not a campaign shaking gaffe until it gets pasted all over the internets. We haven't even seen the beginning of this because the only person who's really called him on it is RP and a few zingers from the Dem Side.

In the general there will be a callback to this comment over and over. He'll defend it like he has with the "nobody hurt" caveat and that might be good enough but someone needs to draw the line somewhere as to how many countries we can occupy simultaneously before going bankrupt. Somebody besides RP apparently.

Daniel Reeves|4.7.08 @ 7:35PM|#

Bomb bomb Iran! Yeah, that's it, McCain! We won't stop 'til World War III!

|4.7.08 @ 7:38PM|#

Daniel, my friend, in a time of war and the terrible sacrifice which it entails, the promise of a better future is not always clear. My friend, the battle that we face in our time is great....

/McCain voice

|4.7.08 @ 7:53PM|#

From the CFR website: All serious foreign policy experts from both political parties understand that we must maintain a permanent presence in South Korea, Germany and 130 other countries. The only disagreement is on who we should invade next.

Greeenspan says the CFR and Daivd Rockefeller have made foreign policy in this country the last century.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vieVwd7ppDk

9 minute mark....yet most of you refuse to think they matter.

|4.7.08 @ 7:55PM|#

Talk about Building 7 Gabe! And the North American Union! And the Five Jew Bankers of Geneva!

Kolohe|4.7.08 @ 7:56PM|#

You know what I like about you, Gabe?

Lonewacko believes in a special theory of conspiracy; you on the other hand, expand it to a general theory.

|4.7.08 @ 7:58PM|#

Oh, I forgot the Bilderberg Group. THE BILDERBERG GROUP! Tell us about them, and their secret plans for their OneWorldGovernment.

|4.7.08 @ 8:11PM|#

What about the reverse-vampires?!? Or have they gotten to you too?

|4.7.08 @ 8:16PM|#

Democrats won't call him on it because they are in favor of permanent bases in Korea and Germany. They can only reply "good point McCain, taxes and interventionism are good, we just wish you'd make us more popular in Paris and London"

|4.7.08 @ 8:23PM|#

It isn't a conspiracy...greenspan specifically names two of his best friends in New York....guess who they are...Henry Kissinger and David Rockefeller. In his speech he makes it clear it is his opinion that the CFR pretty much makes our foreign policy...it isn't a secret that Kissinger has had some affect on foreign policy the last 30 years...disregard building 7, disregard fluoride and mercury being good for babies...do you disagree that the experts at the CFR don't have a strong impact on american foreign policy? are you saying greenspan is wrong? or is it simply a conspiracy to quote anything that isn't directly printed in the NY times?

I'm just telling you that high level democrats are in favor of permanent bases in Korea and Germany and are constantly scouting new locations to put our bases like Darfur, Rowanda, etc....so you may hear them continue the silly attack of saying McCain said he wants a 100 year war.....but you won't hear them attacking tax expenditures on permanent bases at useless locations all over the world. If your analysis tells you that democrats are something different then I'd be glad to hear it.

|4.7.08 @ 8:23PM|#

Hey Gabe, go take a look at this.

Thats what I think of you're theory.

|4.7.08 @ 8:25PM|#

Shit, YOUR theory.

See, people usually can't even get grammar and spelling right. WTF makes you think they could keep a secret that big?

|4.7.08 @ 8:31PM|#

Gabe, with regards to building 7, I pretty much have the same response I have to the JFK assassination theory.

In ANY criminal/military investigation there are going to be loose ends. That goes for everything, be it petty crime or terrorist acts. Any lawyer worth his salt can tell you that. Loose ends != conspiracy.

David Rockefeller|4.7.08 @ 8:57PM|#

I Knew I couldn't trust Greenspan to keep a secret.

Hat Pines|4.7.08 @ 9:03PM|#

Why do we still have bases in Germany ?

The Cold War is over.

Travis|4.7.08 @ 9:15PM|#

Hat Pines,

We only think the cold war is over it's all a trick by the CFR.

|4.7.08 @ 9:22PM|#

jeez my company firewall won't even let me go to that website. oh well

You guys won't even talk about one issue, I said disregard wtc 7...we were talking about why the democrats will not say anything about the idea that we should have permanent bases in Korea and Germany...and you guys immediately said "conspiracy theory".

However, now that you've dragged me into it, they haven't kept it secret. Robert Baer former 20 year-CIA anayst in charge of Al Quada says it was a inside job,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDXurOmeJxc


former prime minister of Italy says it was a CIA/Mossad job(not my theory just his)

There are hundreds of guys like this:
Lt. Col. Shelton F. Lankford, U.S. Marine Corps (ret) - Retired U.S. Marine Corps fighter pilot with over 300 combat missions flown. 20-year Marine Corps career.
Letter to the Editor 2/5/07: Regarding 9/11 "Our government has been hijacked by means of a "new Pearl Harbor" and a lot of otherwise good and decent people who are gullible enough to think that the first three steel-framed buildings in history fall down because they have some fires that the fire fighter on the scene said could be knocked down with a couple of hoses and through which people walked before they were photographed looking out the holes where the plane hit . One of these - bldg 7, was never hit by a plane and even NIST is ashamed to advance a reason for its collapse. And, miracle of miracles, these three buildings just happened to be leased and insured by the same guy who is on tape saying they decided to "PULL" the last one to fall." http://michigandaily.com

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/#Bearden


as for the warren commission, and the 9/11 commission they had Allen Dulles(cia head) as a key member of the warren comission and he was fired by JFK months earlier...McCloy head of the CFR...if you look into the guys and the resaons they wanted JFK gone it becomes clear that there were not "loose ends" but pure lies and intentional fabrications...then when they are proven wrong, silence or lies about lies come out.

why put Henry Kissinger as head of the 9/11 commission? bush was trying to coverup

then why did he quit?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcxjJDlbnC4

the guys he got to take his palce were just as bad....all you have to do is look.

|4.7.08 @ 9:31PM|#

It is simple why we still have bases in Germany. To stop the expenditures would mean a real loss of power by political and military elite. The return of power to individuals through lower income confiscation is not desirable to those in power, if justifications are needed by those in power they will be created.


Now does that mean there is a "conspiracy", i guess in the technical sense that some people are acting in their interest with some half-intelligetn predictions of what will occur int he future. However, it is all there in plain sight. Some people do plan to some degree, the opposite of conspiracy theories is the purely accidental theory of history. If you believe that all incidents in history are purely by accident then you are somewhat thick. Just because you are not intelligent enough to plan your dinner doesn't mean that some other people on this planet are slightly more competent.

|4.7.08 @ 9:32PM|#

"Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a parliament or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

- Hermann Goering, Hitler's Reich Marshall at the Nuremberg Trials

Travis|4.7.08 @ 9:36PM|#

Gabe,

I've read See No Evil & Sleeping with the Devil by Robert Baer. First of all he wasn't in charge of investigating Al-Qeada for the last 20 years. He was just one of the few CIA agents that could speak arabic & farsi. He also made some predictions in Sleeping with the Devil about the future Saudi Arabia that didn't come.

|4.7.08 @ 9:36PM|#

Just for fun...how many of you knew that the Bush family was friends with the Hinckley family...why is that all teh lone wackos are friends of the bushes or CIA connected or both?

According to the March 31, 1981, edition of the Houston Post, and reported by AP, UPI, NBC News and Newsweek, Hinckley is the son of one of George H.W. Bush's political and financial supporters in his 1980 presidential primary campaign against Ronald Reagan; John Hinckley Jr.'s older brother, Scott Hinckley, and Vice President Bush's son Neil Bush had a dinner appointment scheduled for the next day.[4]

Associated Press published the following short note on March 31, 1981:

The family of the man charged with trying to assassinate President Reagan is acquainted with the family of Vice-President George Bush and had made large contributions to his political campaign ... Scott Hinckley, brother of John W. Hinckley Jr. was to have dined tonight in Denver at the home of Neil Bush, one of the Vice-President's sons ... The Houston Post said it was unable to reach Scott Hinckley, vice-president of his father's Denver-based firm, Vanderbilt Energy Corp, for comment. Neil Bush lives in Denver, where he works for Standard Oil Co of Indiana. In 1978, Neil Bush served as campaign manager for his brother, George W. Bush, the Vice-President's eldest son, who made an unsuccessful bid for Congress. Neil lived in Lubbock, Texas, throughout much of 1978, where John Hinckley lived from 1974 through 1980.

|4.7.08 @ 9:44PM|#

Travis, well I didn't mean he was the CIA guy giving Al Qaeda the orders...brezinski takes credit for that...but being a arabic & farsi 20 year CIA vet he knows more about Osama Bin Laden than Fluffy....and he says it looks like an inside job. Sue me for believing him, you keep believing Goerge Bush if that is working out for you.

As for predicting the future in Saudi Arabia, I am not shocked that his prediction didn't come true, it seems lots of people have had some bad predictions(it is hard work). Nevertheless, Baer seems to have more credibility on this topic than anyone at Reason or anyone on this board. Yet your calling me crazy for questioning government "loose ends" that appear to be lies.

|4.7.08 @ 9:52PM|#

Whoa.

|4.7.08 @ 9:56PM|#

Scott C. Grainger, BS CE, PE - Licensed Professional Civil Engineer and/or Fire Protection Engineer in the States of Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, New York, Utah, Virginia, Washington, and Wyoming. Owner of Grainger Consulting, Inc., a fire protection engineering firm (23 years). Former Chairman, Arizona State Fire Code Committee. Former President of the Arizona Chapter of the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. Current Member of the Forensic Sciences Committee and the Fire Standards Committee of ASTM International (formerly American Society for Testing and Materials ). Senior Member, National Academy of Forensic Engineers.
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:

"Approximately 50% of my work is forensic. I am licensed in 9 States. In addition to my forensic work, a good portion of my work is in the design of structural fireproofing systems.

All three [WTC] collapses were very uniform in nature. Natural collapses due to unplanned events are not uniform."


and Fluffy knows more about how buildings collapse than this guy....sorry I don't believe that. You guys may be correct that Goerge Bush is very trustworthy about this stuff, but you don't know more about civil engineering and demolitions than all these people saying the offical story doesn't make sense.

|4.7.08 @ 9:58PM|#

McCain's defense is built around saying that people concerned by his statement have misunderstood it.

Apparently, he doesn't actually want a shooting war to last 100 years.

He just wants us to be there for a hundred years.

The problem is, this doesn't get him off the hook. He wants us to be in Iraq for 100 years? After what we've learned over the past five and a half years, really?

SIV|4.7.08 @ 9:58PM|#

Well I believe their is all kinds of shit we don't know about the Kennedy Assassination and the Warren Report is a work of fiction.

But all that 9/11 and Bush stuff is crazy talk.

TallDave|4.7.08 @ 10:10PM|#

1)there is nothing controversial about building permanent bases in Iraq

Technically, our bases in S Korea aren't permanent, but they've been there for 50 years now so the distinction is fairly meaningless. As long as any country that has some semblance of liberal democracy is in danger we will likely defend it, be it Iraq, Afghanistan, South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, W Germany, etc.

2)that maintaining those bases would be completely positive effects on the region

If it doesn't, the Iraqis can ask us to leave, but we'll still be in Kuwait and Qatar. And I doubt the Kurds will want us gone anytime soon though.

Of course, sanctions and the permanent bombing campaign that we called "containment" didn't win us any friends either. And we still had to keep troops in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait "permanently," as long as the regime was still around.

3)there's nothing wrong with a potential president telling the world we'll be in Iraq forever

There's nothing wrong with telling the world we'll defend our allies for as long as it takes.

Of course, the Soviets probably would have liked a withdrawal timetable from W Germany, and the North Koreans probably wanted to know when we were leaving the peninsula. And some people argued our troops' presence was the problem.

|4.7.08 @ 10:11PM|#

Col. Ronald D. Ray, U.S. Marine Corps (ret) - Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense during the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated Vietnam veteran (two Silver Stars, a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart). Appointed by President George H.W. Bush to serve on the American Battle Monuments Commission (1990 - 1994), and on the 1992 Presidential Commission on the Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces. Military Historian and Deputy Director of Field Operations for the U.S. Marine Corps Historical Center, Washington, D.C. 1990 - 1994.

Alex Jones: Colonel, is it safe to say or is the statement accurate that you smell something rotten in the state of Denmark when it comes to 9/11?

Col. Ray: I'm astounded that the conspiracy theory advanced by the administration could in fact be true and the evidence does not seem to suggest that that's accurate. That's true.

TallDave|4.7.08 @ 10:14PM|#

Oh dear God we've been invaded by Truthers.

Oh well, have a nice thread.

|4.7.08 @ 10:26PM|#

Lt. Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) - Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter. U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. (PhD in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering, Cal Tech). Former Head of the Department of Aeronautical Engineering and Assistant Dean at the U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology. 22-year Air Force career. Also taught Mathematics and English at the University of Southern California, the University of Maryland, and Phillips University.


Video 9/11/04: "A lot of these pieces of information, taken together, prove that the official story, the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 is a bunch of hogwash. It's impossible. … There's a second group of facts having to do with the cover up. … Taken together these things prove that high levels of our government don't want us to know what happened and who's responsible.…

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6900065571556128674

thoreau|4.7.08 @ 10:28PM|#

TallDave vs. Truthers: No matter who wins, we lose.

|4.7.08 @ 10:36PM|#

TallDave | April 7, 2008, 10:10pm | #

"Technically, our bases in S Korea aren't permanent, but they've been there for 50 years now so the distinction is fairly meaningless. As long as any country that has some semblance of liberal democracy is in danger we will likely defend it, be it Iraq, Afghanistan, South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, W Germany, etc."

or we might fund there dictator or caligula like regime ala Sadam Hussein, House of Saud, Eygpt, giving money to the Taliban in 2001 etc


Talldave:
"If it doesn't, the Iraqis can ask us to leave"

at which point the insurgents will be sent to Abu Grahb to be educated about democracy.

Talldave:
"Of course, sanctions and the permanent bombing campaign that we called "containment" didn't win us any friends either."


those ungrateful Iraqi peasants didn't know how good they had it with the 13 years of bombing raids and the trade embargoes.

Talldave:
"There's nothing wrong with telling the world we'll defend our allies for as long as it takes.

Of course, the Soviets probably would have liked a withdrawal timetable from W Germany, and the North Koreans probably wanted to know when we were leaving the peninsula. And some people argued our troops' presence was the problem."

Oh yes, we must defend the germans from the onslaught of the red army. I'm sure the dumb russian won't think to call in their half trillion dollar loan to the US, no they'll gladly keep lending us money to fund the army that will fight them in the war for Germany.

|4.7.08 @ 10:39PM|#

As far as I can tell, I'm the only truther here right now. You can just refer to me in the singular.

Just assume I am totally neutral, can you help discredit Dr Bowman for me? he seems to be a pretty smart guy with a lot closer relationships to a couple of presidents than you guys.

|4.7.08 @ 10:42PM|#

Commander Ralph Kolstad, U.S. Navy (ret) - Retired fighter pilot. Former Air Combat Instructor, U.S. Navy Fighter Weapons School (Topgun). 20-year Navy career. Aircraft flown: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom, Douglas A-4 Skyhawk, and Grumman F-14 Tomcat. Retired commercial airline captain with 27 years experience. Aircraft flown: Boeing 727, 757 and 767, McDonnell Douglas MD-80, and Fokker F-100. 23,000+ total hours flown.
Statement to this website 8/20/07: "I started questioning the Sept 11, 2001 "story" only days after the event. It just didn't make any sense to me. How could a steel and concrete building collapse after being hit by a Boeing 767? Didn't the engineers design it to withstand a direct hit from a Boeing 707, approximately the same size and weight of the 767? The evidence just didn't add up. ...

At the Pentagon, the pilot of the Boeing 757 did quite a feat of flying. I have 6,000 hours of flight time in Boeing 757's and 767's and could not have flown it the way the flight path was described.

I was also a Navy fighter pilot and Air Combat Instructor, U.S. Navy Fighter Weapons School and have experience flying low altitude, high speed aircraft. I could not have done what these beginners did. Something stinks to high heaven!

Where is the damage to the wall of the Pentagon from the wings? Where are the big pieces that always break away in an accident? Where is all the luggage? Where are the miles and miles of wire, cable, and lines that are part and parcel of any large aircraft? Where are the steel engine parts? Where is the steel landing gear? Where is the tail section that would have broken into large pieces?

I also personally knew American Airlines Captain "Chick" Burlingame, who was the captain of Flight 77 which allegedly hit the Pentagon, and I know he would not have given up his airplane to crazies!

And at the Shanksville Pennsylvania impact site, where is any of the wreckage?!!! Of all the pictures I have seen, there is only a hole! Where is any piece of a crashed airplane? Why was the area cordoned off, and no inspection allowed by the normal accident personnel? Where is any evidence at all?

When one starts using his own mind, and not what one was told, there is very little to believe in the official "story". ...

This guy seems more credible than Tall Dave as well

|4.7.08 @ 10:47PM|#

Wayne Madsen - Former U.S. Navy Intelligence Officer, specialist in electronic surveillance and security. Formerly assigned to the National Security Agency and the State Department. Currently, investigative journalist, nationally distributed columnist, and author. Senior Fellow, Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC), a non-partisan privacy public advocacy group in Washington, DC. Frequent media commentator on terrorism and security matters.

Speech 11/11/06 : "After five years of talking to many individuals in the intelligence community, in the military, foreign intelligence agencies, and a whole host of other people, people from the air traffic control community, the FAA, I came to the conclusion that after five years what we saw happen on that morning of September 11, 2001, was the result of a highly-compartmentalized covert operation to bring about a fascist coup in this country. ...

These people need to be brought to justice, if not by our own Congress, then by an international tribunal in the Hague, in the Netherlands. Bush, Blair, Rumsfeld, Cheney should be sitting in the same dockets where Milosevic and the Croatia-Serbia war criminals sat." http://video.google.com

|4.7.08 @ 10:48PM|#

Raymond L. McGovern - Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates, CIA, responsible for preparing the President' Daily Brief (PDB) for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. 27-year CIA veteran. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer.

Video 7/22/06: "I think at simplest terms, there's a cover-up. The 9/11 report is a joke. The question is: What's being covered up? Is it gross malfeasance, gross negligence, misfeasance? … Now there are a whole bunch of unanswered questions. And the reason they're unanswered is because this administration will not answer the questions. … I just want to reassert, what Scott [Ritter, former Major in the U.S. Marines Corps, former Chief Weapons Inspector for the United Nations Special Commission in Iraq] said and this is the bottom line for me, just as Hitler in 1933 cynically exploited the burning of the parliament building, the Reichstag, this is exactly what our President did in exploiting 9/11. The cynical way in which he played on our trauma, used it to justify attacking, making a war of aggression on a country that he knew had nothing to do with 9/11. That suffices for me, I think Scott is exactly right, that's certainly an impeachable offense." http://video.google

|4.7.08 @ 10:49PM|#

Melvin A. Goodman, PhD - Former Division Chief and Senior Analyst at the Office of Soviet Affairs, CIA,1966 - 1990. Senior Analyst at the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, State Department, 1974 - 1976. Professor of International Security at the National War College 1986 - 2004. Currently Senior Fellow at the Center for International Policy and Adjunct Professor of Government at Johns Hopkins University. Author and co-author of several books on international relations, including: Wars of Eduard Shevardnadze, Gorbachev's Retreat: The Third World, and Bush League Diplomacy: How the Neoconservatives Are Putting the World at Risk.

Congressional briefing testimony 7/22/05: "I think the 9/11 Commission has taught me that we need to be extremely rigorous and extremely tenacious in pursuing that truth, because there is a corporate mentality in this country that is working against allowing the truth to surface, even in tragedies, such as the 9/11 tragedy. ...

I want to talk about the [9/11] Commission itself, about the flawed process of the Commission and finally about the conflict of interest within the Commission that is extremely important to understand the failure of the Commission. ...

The final report is ultimately a coverup. I don't know how else to describe it." http://www.vt911.org

|4.7.08 @ 10:51PM|#

Senator Max Cleland - Former member of the 9/11 Commission,(he was on the commission!!!!!)


resigned in December 2003. Currently serves on the board of directors of the Export-Import Bank of the United States. U.S. Senator from Georgia 1997 - 2002. Secretary of State of Georgia 1982 - 1996. Administrator of the U.S. Veterans Administration 1977 - 1981. Former Captain, U.S. Army. Awarded Silver Star and Bronze Star for bravery in Viet Nam. Triple amputee from war injuries.

Article New York Times 10/26/03: "As each day goes by, we learn that this government knew a whole lot more about these terrorists before Sept. 11 than it has ever admitted." http://www.commondreams.org


Article Boston Globe 11/13/03: "If this decision stands [to limit access to White House documents], I, as a member of the [9/11] Commission, cannot look any American in the eye, especially family members of victims, and say the Commission had full access. This investigation is now compromised. . . . This is `The Gong Show'; this isn't protection of national security." http://www.


Article Salon 11/21/03: Regarding the 9/11 Commission "It is a national scandal." http://dir.salon.com


Resigned from the 9/11 Commission, 12/03, after having served on it for 12 months. Former Senator Bob Kerrey from Nebraska was selected to replace him. The 9/11 Commission Report was issued 7 months later.


Interview Democracy Now 3/23/04: "One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up." http://www.democracynow.org

|4.7.08 @ 11:06PM|#

John Lear - Retired commercial airline pilot with over 19,000+ total hours flown in over 100 different types of planes for 10 different airlines in 60 different countries around the world. Flew for over 40 years. Holds every certificate ever offered by the FAA and has 23 different FAA type ratings. Held 17 world records including speed around the world in a Lear Jet Model 24, set in 1966. He was presented with the PATCO award for outstanding airmanship in 1968, and the Symons Wave memorial. Flight experience includes Boeing 707 and 727, McDonnell Douglas DC-8, Lockheed L-1011 and many others. Son of Bill Lear, founder of Lear Jet Corp.
Audio interview with Rob Balsamo 3/9/07: Regarding the Flight Data Recorder information for Flight 77, which allegedly hit the Pentagon, released by the NTSB

John Lear: There's a lot things in that tape that came up, that if you're a pilot, you say, "Hey, wait a minute. That's bull****. That could never happen in a million years." ...

Rob Balsamo: What did you think about 9/11 after you saw it?

John Lear: Well, you know, five minutes after it happened, I knew that it was a scam. ... No Boeing 757 ever crashed into the Pentagon. No Boeing 757 ever crashed at Shanksville. ... And no Arab hijacker, ever in a million years, ever flew into the World Trade Center. And if you got 30 minutes I'll tell you exactly why he couldn't do it the first time. Now, I'd have trouble doing it the first time.

Rob Balsamo: Yeah, same here.

John Lear: Maybe if I had a couple tries to line up a few building, I could have done it. But certainly not the first time and certainly not at 500 or 600 miles an hour.

Rob Balsamo: Yeah, as a matter of fact, one of our members, he was a 737 Check Airman. He was in the sim at the time on September 11 and right after it happened they tried to duplicate it in the simulator and they said they couldn't do it. They were trying to hit the Towers and they couldn't do it. ...

John Lear: Yeah, it would be an amazing feat of airmanship. ...

John Lear: People ask, you know, why do I think that 9/11 was a scam. They say, "Why would the government do that?" And I said, there's three basic reasons. Number 1; they wanted to take away all our liberties and they had to pose a threat to do that. Number 2; they wanted a reason to go into Afghanistan. ... Then the third thing was we had to have a pretext for going into Iraq. http://video.google.com

|4.7.08 @ 11:11PM|#

Dennis Cimino - Commercial pilot rating for 25 years. Systems Engineer. Navy Combat Systems Specialist (Radar, ECM, UHF/VHF/HF COMMS., GPS, INS, SATNAV).
Statement to this website 6/3/07: "I have been a licensed pilot with a commercial rating, multi-engine, IFR, since 1981. Prior to that I served as an Electronic Warfare / Electronic Signals Intelligence (EW ELINT) specialist in the U.S. Navy, with many 'first time' signal intercepts in the national (NSA) sigint database. Since I left the Navy in 1979, I have been heavily involved in DoD weapons system testing and certification. I have held high level clearances most of my career.

There is no doubt in my mind that what transpired on September 11, 2001, was an inside job carried out by members of our own government. Based on my experience as a commercial pilot, I do not believe that it's possible for four large commercial airliners to have gone off course for as long as they did and as far as they did and were not intercepted by Air Force pilots, without the explicit cooperation of highly placed people in the military and government.

I also do not believe that both of the WTC Twin Towers could have been identically pulverized and that both identically collapsed into their own footprints as a result of a single airplane impact and the fire from a few thousand gallons of jet fuel. I also do not believe that WTC Building 7, which wasn't even hit by an airplane, could have entirely collapsed as a result of a few fires, particularly in a manner that is entirely consistent with a controlled demolition.

Additionally, the visible evidence at the Pentagon is inconsistent with an impact by a Boeing 757. There was virtually no debris from the 80-ton airplane, except a few small pieces that were picked up by hand. Nor was there any evidence of holes in the building that surely would have resulted from the impacts of the two 6-ton RB-211 engines on the alleged Boeing 757. Similarly, at Shanksville, PA, the small gash in the earth is far too small to have resulted from the impact of a Boeing 757.

All of these factors have convinced me that our government was fully onboard with what took place on 9/11. The official account of 9/11 is absolute B.S. We, as citizens of this great country, need to do research, question the government, and demand a full, impartial investigation to determine what actually took place that day."

|4.7.08 @ 11:28PM|#

That's quite enough, Gabe.

|4.8.08 @ 12:09AM|#

Before the internets, people like Gabe used to stand on street corners and proclaim how the World Was Going To End.

Now they come and cut-and-paste all over comment threads.

Gabe, no one wants to listen to you. You're a turd of a regurgitator, spewing out gibberish, totally obliviously to netiquette and the fact that no one wants to read what you've just barfed up all over the thread. We're not interested in your fantasies. Get lost.

|4.8.08 @ 12:17AM|#

I think McCain is being realistic -- we still have bases/troops in Cuba that were put there after the Spanish-American War. That's 110 years and counting...

Mr X|4.8.08 @ 12:26AM|#

For a unique argument against McCain you can't beat this. The whole site really makes you think

|4.8.08 @ 12:44AM|#

That Robert Baer he is such an idiot. Dave Weigel and grumpy realist know way way more about terrorism and Osama Bin Laden than that moron. If Dave Weigel can figure out that Dick Cheney and Henry Kissinger are incredibly upfront and trustworthy regarding issues that affect the military budget then you'd think a doofus like Robert Baer would get a clue and realize that there is nothing to the conspiracy theories. Heck I'm not even goign to talk about how the fire melted the beams in wtc 7 and routinely brought that building down, it is so obvious that it has been investigated thoroughly, I read all about it in the 9/11 commission report.

|4.8.08 @ 12:46AM|#

grumpy realist uses AOL. That dude is hardcore.

|4.8.08 @ 12:52AM|#

Gabe, so Bush and Chaney were clever enough and smart enough(i thought Bush was a dummy according to his critics) to plan 9/11 but they were not smart and clever enough to have the military planned WMD's in Iraq??

Nash|4.8.08 @ 1:05AM|#

"The problem is, this doesn't get him off the hook. He wants us to be in Iraq for 100 years? After what we've learned over the past five and a half years, really?"

You underestimate the typical voter's lust for American Hegemony. They really do love empire. People don't like the killing no, and they don't really like expensive gasoline, but they LOVE, both neocon and liberal "doing the right thing" and making the world safe for democracy at the simple cost of sending someone else to go do it. They see Iraq as a debacle that we should still occupy to "stabilize" them and prevent "chaos" in the Middle East because that means even more expensive gasoline, infringements on human rights and so on and so forth.

Most Americans hate the war and simultaneously hate the idea of America not "doing something about this" either. We love interventionism and will continue to do so until we either get crushed by an up and coming empire and are forced to recoil or we just dump all our nukes into the far east and call it a millennium.

Our empire will not be stifled from within. It's going to take a monumental beating at the hands of other nations to make us cease and desist.

|4.8.08 @ 1:06AM|#

I'm not even saying they planned 9/11, just that they are helping perpetuate a coverup about what happened. That alone is treason, Nice strawman though, if your going to make crap up like that you might as well call me a anti-semite or isolationist.


In any case, what do they need WMD for? they are doing quite alright without them....they have the big budgets and contracts they wanted. We've got the new departments of Homeland security, universal wiretapping, patriot act 1 and 2, permanent bases in Iraq.

Brandybuck|4.8.08 @ 1:36AM|#

Brandybuck's Law: "It is impossible to believe in just one conspiracy."

Gabe is proof. When I saw Gabe's first post, I knew it wouldn't be much longer before he admitted to believing in all the other conspiracies currently in vogue. So of course he ends up being a 9/11 Kooker. Hey Gabe, do you also believe that Sonny Bono was assassinated? Is the government spraying us with chemtrails?

Yup, conspiracies are like Ritz Crackers. You can't believe just one. Before you know it you've eaten the whole box and are attending UFO conventions in Roswell.

Elemenope|4.8.08 @ 1:47AM|#

I'm still waiting for him to start on the Gnomes of Zurich.

|4.8.08 @ 1:48AM|#

Empire seems to be a lot more expensive than it used to be. Britain was able to dominate India for 200 years and turn a profit on it too. But this sort of imperialism requires a huge military advantage. In the heyday of Britain's empire a few thousand Redcoats were sufficient to defeat any army an Indian ruler could muster. But the people in South Asia are much better armed and educated nowadays. Maintaining a huge military advantage now requires main battle tanks, MRAPS, helicopter gunships and all the logistical support needed to sustain them in the field.

|4.8.08 @ 2:07AM|#

brandybuck, here are your talking points. Mercury is good for babies. The CFR doesn't exist and has nothing to do with foreign policy in this country. Robert Baer doesn't know naything about terrorism compared to fluffy. Kissinger and Cheney are honest public servants who merely want to serve you. Anything else is a conspiracy theory.

|4.8.08 @ 2:31AM|#

Gabe's Law:
"It is impossible to believe in just one historical accident"

At first it was just oops we got the government involved in every major industry in the country all to the benefit of the biggest corporations that didn't have to compete with new entrants anymore and we did it all to fight a war to end all war that ended up resulting in Germany causing the biggest war ever. and oops we got the income tax out of that deal too. We also accidently started a central bank to smooth out the economy but golly gee we ended up causing the great depression by accident and we ended up accumulating all the assets of the country into the hands of the few banks that wanted to create the fed....then golly gee we accidentally got our president shot by a lone wacko after he tried to shut down the fed, then oops we had the USS liberty attacked by Israel and accidentally lied about it ....then oops gulf of tonkin helped us escalate the Vietnam war but it turned out we accidentally reported it wrong.

I'm willing to believe in accidents and conspiracies, your view seems a little biased.

Nash|4.8.08 @ 2:37AM|#

Kennedy's assassination had nothing to do with the federal reserve. That's been debunked:

"http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/weberman/jfk.htm"

And we all know the government is totally incompetent but life in the industrial revolution wasn't all peachy either.

|4.8.08 @ 10:17AM|#

Gabe Harris' rants have reminded me of the fact that Earl Ravenal was pretty much driven out of the Libertarian Party in the early eighties by assholes like him (cough, Raimondo, cough). With him went the people who were responsible for the most successful campaign in LP history.

Earl Ravenal and Ted Galen Carpenter are both members of the CFR (though I don't remember where they were on the grassy knoll) as is practically every other academic with a connection to foreign policy or diplomacy. It is pretty hard to find someone with any kind of foreign policy credentials who is not a member.

Members of the CFR hold a wide variety of foreign policy opinions. Candidates hire the ones that will promote the foreign policy they want. Noninterventionists need not apply to campaigns of Republicans or Democrats has been the rule for some time now.

Neu Mejican|4.8.08 @ 10:52AM|#

Gabe,

Watched the plans hit the WTC from 5th avenue.
Watched the fires consume them.
Watched the fires cause their collapse.
Watched all of this with a former steel worker.

He said, "that fire is going to collapse those buildings if they don't get it under control."

Later "they're gonna go pretty soon, that steel's ready to buckle"

Then the first tower fell.
I was able to learn from that and predict the timing of the second collapse pretty accurately.

Maybe the guy standing next to me was one of the government moles sent out to confuse people.

Should I believe you or my lying eyes?

Twit.

|4.8.08 @ 11:46AM|#

Watched all of this with a former steel worker.

Umm, was this person someone who worked in a steel mill or a person who erected the steel in buildings/bridges.

If the latter I am sure he would prefer to be called an ironworker.

All three [WTC] collapses were very uniform in nature.

No, in fact, they weren't. Debris fell blocks away. And according to all the analyses I have heard about, it fell in a manner absolutely consistent with the kind of damage that had been done.

Britain was able to dominate India for 200 years and turn a profit on it too.

Actually, no. India was fabulously profitable for the British East India Company but was a net drain on the British economy.

The technique of business owners to privatize profits while socializing costs is an old one. It is favored by many politicians who get to collect campaign funds and votes. They usually justify their support for such programs in the name of "national greatness" of "creating jobs".

For an example of this, since "someone" bought up the WTC, see the WTC itself. It was proposed originally by a group led by David Rockerfeller to stop the movement of business out of NYC. The Port Authority's eminent domain powers, originally intended for acquisition of land for transportation infrastructure, was used to assemble land for a commercial office development which added absolutely no needed space and destroyed an existing vibrant business district. For most of its existence the WTC was a drain on the revenues of the Port Authority to the extent that it failed to meet many of its maintenence responsibilities thus leading to the degradation of its bridges and tunnels and the threat to public safety that entailed.

The Gabe Harrises of the world need look no further than the documented abuses of the system by the "Rockerfellers" of the world. I'm still mystified as to why they subscribe to the kind of crackpot theories (with the attendant manufactured "evidence") of conspiracists.

|4.8.08 @ 11:51AM|#

..."national greatness" or "creating jobs".

There's a couple of question marks missing too. Insert where required.

Of course the foregoing longwinded rant could simply say "unintended consequences, anyone?"

Neu Mejican|4.8.08 @ 12:07PM|#

If the latter I am sure he would prefer to be called an ironworker.

Isaac, we've been through this before.

Technically an "Ironworker" is a structural metal and platework fabricator. Often called "Ironworkers" in the past because that was the metal they worked with, the term "steelworker" is often used as well since that is the primary building material in modern times. The distinction between the two terms is regionally more or less important and not known outside narrow circles.

This man identified himself as a steelworker.
He may have been a structural metal and platework fabricator (that was the impression I got), or he may have been someone who made steel beams (didn't sound like it).

|4.8.08 @ 1:03PM|#

He wants us to be in Iraq for 100 years?

The fundamental dishonesty in people attacking McCain over his remark is that he doesn't want us to be in Iraq for 100 years, but he's willing to stay that long if necessary.

Kind of like how you don't want to pay your taxes/mortgage every month/year, but you're willing to do so if necessary to stay off the streets/out of jail.

Brandybuck|4.8.08 @ 2:06PM|#

Gabe: Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity, arrogance or merely a shared common ideology.

Neu Mejican|4.8.08 @ 2:55PM|#

RC Dean,

The fundamental dishonesty in people attacking McCain over his remark is that he doesn't want us to be in Iraq for 100 years, but he's willing to stay that long if necessary.

The fundamentally honest part of the criticism is that it points out that John McCain thinks that it is a good idea, the right method, the appropriate response to the situation, even if he would prefer not "needing" to stay in the region, he thinks that we need to stay to get the outcome we want. That, seems to me, is pretty damning of his views on how to deal with the issues in Iraq.

|4.8.08 @ 3:07PM|#

Cool, NM.

|4.8.08 @ 5:08PM|#

want: 1. to feel a need or desire for; wish for to want a new dress. 2. to wish or need (often followed by an infinitive. I want to see you....6. to feel inclined; wish (often followed by to: We can stay home if you want to.

The Random House Webster's College Dictionary 1995 version is fundamentally dishonest.

(We get that he wants to stay there because he thinks there are good reasons to, RC. We disagree with him. Honestly.)

|4.8.08 @ 10:30PM|#

Actually, no. India was fabulously profitable for the British East India Company but was a net drain on the British economy.

Winston Churchill once criticized Indian independence efforts partially on the basis they would cause unemployment in Britain. That British India was running at a net loss puts these statements in a new light. It seems that British India was, in part, a kind of expensive social security scheme to reduce British unemployment.