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Details, Schmetails
Some interesting exchanges from a Jewish Journal interview with John McCain:
McCain also defended his support of the controversial Rev. John Hagee, a staunchly pro-Israel evangelical who has been criticized for his anti-Catholic comments. I asked the senator how he would get pro-Israel evangelicals, who have been staunchly opposed to Israel giving up territory or compromising on the status of Jerusalem, to support any peace agreement.
"You can't jump ahead here," he said. "I know they favor a peace process. I know they favor that because of my close relations with them, and pastor John Hagee ... is one of the leaders of the pro-Israel-evangelical movement in America."
I started to correct him -- Hagee and other evangelicals most certainly don't support compromise on territory or Jerusalem, and McCain must know this. That's when I got my first taste of the famous McCain technique: I'll-talk-so-you-can't.
"Look," he cut me off, "I just have to tell you that we should be so grateful for the support of the evangelical movement for the state of Israel, given the influence that they have, beneficial influence that they have over millions of Americans, and then we'll worry about a peace process later on, but I know that they are committed to peace between Palestinians and Israelis as well." [...]
Does he think the war has strengthened Iran in the region?
"I think that our failures for nearly four years obviously did it," the senator said. "But I believe that that is being reversed as the surge succeeds, and I think that the Iranians are very possibly going to step up their assistance to the Jihadists, because they don't want us to succeed in Iraq.... Osama Bin Laden has said that the central front in the battleground is Iraq, and their Palestinian brothers are next. So what are the implications to the State of Israel if they prevail on Iraq? I think they're very obvious." [...]
On the domestic front, I praised the senator in his call for energy independence, but pointed out that every president since Richard Nixon has issued the same call. Why would he succeed?
"Because I believe I can inspire the American people," he said, "and I think that when the price of oil went over $100 a barrel that there was certainly a psychological barrier there."
Whole thing here; link via LA Observed. I'll be on The Charles Goyette Show on Phoenix's KFNX, 1100 on your AM dial, starting in a few minutes here at 10:05 EDT.
|4.4.08 @ 10:04AM|#
"Because I believe I can inspire the American
people,"
...apparently to defy the laws of thermodynamics.
Elemenope|4.4.08 @ 10:07AM|#
"Look," he cut me off, "I just have to tell you that we
should be so grateful for the support of the evangelical movement
for the state of Israel, given the influence that they
have...
Yeah. The Jews just *love* being pawns in other people's arguments.
Their gratefulness is palpable.
Episiarch|4.4.08 @ 10:07AM|#
I think I've asked this before, but when can we expect McCain to take out a restraining order on Matt?
Taktix®|4.4.08 @ 10:14AM|#
"I think that our failures for nearly four years obviously
did it," the senator said. "But I believe that that is being
reversed as the surge succeeds...
Say what you will about McCain, but he's managed to position
himself to both support and oppose the war.
That motherfucker...
Taktix®|4.4.08 @ 10:16AM|#
"Because I believe I can inspire the American people,"
...apparently to defy the laws of thermodynamics.
McCain doesn't see the real impact of the energy situation because
his vehicles run on raw, unfiltered anger...
|4.4.08 @ 10:21AM|#
Wife: You can disagree with the evangelicals but they're great
friends of the Jews because Israel is the Holy Land.
Hesch: You wait.
Fluffy|4.4.08 @ 10:21AM|#
There is no upper bound to the number of times McCain can proclaim his love for Hagee, but he won't be Jeremiah Wrighted about it.
Elemenope|4.4.08 @ 10:21AM|#
McCain doesn't see the real impact of the energy situation
because his vehicles run on raw, unfiltered anger...
McCain:
For - Flying Cars, Space Elevators (with American flags on them),
Perpetual Motion Machines
Against - Not bombing brown people
This platform has worked before...
Franklin Harris|4.4.08 @ 10:22AM|#
John McCain: He's twice the doddering old man you always thought Reagan was.
raimondo\'s tired anus|4.4.08 @ 10:26AM|#
The Jewish Journal? Matt, you're offering further proof that you're just a "neocon mouthpiece". Or something.
Abdul|4.4.08 @ 10:32AM|#
McCain's larger point may not be so dumb. In the sense that "Only Nixon could go to China," perhaps only a guy with the support of pro-Israeli evangenicals can actually talk Israel into concessions.
PC|4.4.08 @ 10:37AM|#
"Rev. John Hagee, a staunchly pro-Israel evangelical who has
been criticized for his anti-Catholic comments."
Yeah he hates Catholics and thinks that Jews are subhuman pawns for
the rapture. He is a pro-Israel in that sense just as the
paternalistic brand of slaveowners in the south were pro black.
Fluffy|4.4.08 @ 10:39AM|#
Oh wait, I forgot -
Welch, don't you realize that you're not entitled to post
criticisms of John McCain, because you once said you supported
public education?
Ba-dump-bump. [Cymbal]
Elemenope|4.4.08 @ 10:39AM|#
"Only Nixon could go to China," perhaps only a guy with the
support of pro-Israeli evangelicals can actually talk Israel into
concessions.
Yeah, except evangelicals aren't Jews...they're more like defective
Christians with head wounds.
So the analogy doesn't quite match up.
Fluffy|4.4.08 @ 10:44AM|#
I just have to tell you that we should be so grateful for
the support of the evangelical movement for the state of Israel,
given the influence that they have, beneficial influence that they
have over millions of Americans, and then we'll worry about a peace
process later on
Actually, doesn't anyone else besides me read this as saying, "We
don't actually need a peace process, because with the help of
evangelicals our support for Israel is strong enough that we can
just let Israel do whatever the fuck it wants"?
I think the "later on" here refers to "a time period after the
Israelis are allowed to brutalize the Palestinians into accepting
whatever terms Israel deigns to offer, or no terms at all".
Kind of like the terms the Iraqis will give the US for "permanent
security arrangements".
Elemenope|4.4.08 @ 10:53AM|#
Actually, doesn't anyone else besides me read this as
saying...
You aren't alone. This is part of that new (old) theory of foreign
policy that is based on the notion that some countries are just
plain better than others, and so earn perpetual forgiveness for
their bullshit.
|4.4.08 @ 10:54AM|#
"Because I believe I can inspire the American
people,
Yes. That's just what we've been lacking!
Our problem isn't that oil is still cheaper than the alternative,
that large political and corporate players have an interest in
maintaining the status quo, or that there's a large infrastructure
that favors the use of oil.
No. What we've lacked is mass quantities of inspiration from our
political leaders!
As long as we all feel wonderfully inspired, our cars will run
three times as long on half the gas and produce no emissions!
John, you're bloody brilliant!
|4.4.08 @ 10:56AM|#
Right-wing Evangelicals are "pro-Israel" the way some fishermen are pro-nightcrawler.
Rimfax|4.4.08 @ 11:00AM|#
I like the way that when he doesn't like where the questioning
is going, he interrupts and moves the target.
"Look, you're wrong about a point that you weren't really making,
but is easier for me to dismiss, but while I'm monopolizing the
discussion and before you actually correct me and press your real
point which I can't effectively rebut, I am going to segue this
discussion to this other slightly related subject which you can't
resist pursuing instead, in your vain hope to actually get a
straight answer out of me."
Episiarch|4.4.08 @ 11:04AM|#
You'll all be sorry when the Rapture comes and you get Left Behind! But John McCain, and Kirk Cameron, won't be.
Elemenope|4.4.08 @ 11:04AM|#
As long as we all feel wonderfully inspired, our cars will
run three times as long on half the gas and produce no
emissions!
John McCain: Hopemonger.
BakedPenguin|4.4.08 @ 11:08AM|#
Episiarch - Kirk Cameron will be swallowing bananas in paradise, all right...
Jesus|4.4.08 @ 11:09AM|#
If McCain (McWar on Cocaine) thinks the influence from the evangelical movement over millions of Americans is beneficial, I would ask "Beneficial to whom"?
Episiarch|4.4.08 @ 11:11AM|#
Are you implying that Cameron is a homo? He can't be--he's an evangelical Christian!
Elemenope|4.4.08 @ 11:20AM|#
He can't be--he's an evangelical Christian!
Defective, dude. With head wounds, I'm tellin' ya.
|4.4.08 @ 11:22AM|#
No, McCain won't get Jeremiah Wrighted (huzzah for neologisms) because Wright said bad, naughty, nasty things about the USA, while Hagee reserves his vitriol for those outside our borders. Oh, and those inside our borders who are already a part of semi-disenfranchised groups.
Travis|4.4.08 @ 11:24AM|#
McCain is really the antichrist it wasn't skin cancer he had removed it was the mark of the beast.
The Democratic Republican|4.4.08 @ 11:25AM|#
there's nothing wrong with evangelicals until they stumble into politics.
Elemenope|4.4.08 @ 11:27AM|#
Oh, and those inside our borders who are already a part of
semi-disenfranchised groups.
Like...Catholics? Granted, I live in Rhode Island, so my perception
of how Catholics get along in the USA is a tad distorted, but
still.
Matt|4.4.08 @ 11:30AM|#
and I think that the Iranians are very possibly going to
step up their assistance to the Jihadists
Sounding both ominous and prophetic there
|4.4.08 @ 11:34AM|#
Right-wing Evangelicals are "pro-Israel" the way some
fishermen are pro-nightcrawler.
That comment was fucking nasty. I agree 100%.
Travis|4.4.08 @ 11:35AM|#
I use to listen to Rev. Hagee on the radio everyday growing up. I doubt he views himself as being anti-catholic, anti-gay, anti-muslim he just believes they're evil & will burn in hell for all of eternity, thats all.
|4.4.08 @ 11:41AM|#
Hagee wants a hypothetical rapture ASAP during his lifetime MUCH
more than he wants anything like real peace, IMO. The real irony is
that I'm called anti-semitic for calling such "support" what it is
-- harmful to both Israel and the USA. Sigh. Reality still isn't
hate.
JMR
|4.4.08 @ 11:42AM|#
and I think that the Iranians are very possibly going to
step up their assistance to the Jihadists
Ignoring, of course, that the Iranians are quite cozy with the
Malaki government we support.
But hey, we have inspiration! We can transform the Middle East with
hope and happy thoughts!
|4.4.08 @ 11:43AM|#
I think that the Iranians are very possibly going to step up
their assistance to the Jihadists, because they don't want us to
succeed in Iraq
It's been less than five years since Bush lied about al Qaeda
connections as a way to drum up support for a war with Iraq, and
now McCain is telling the same lie about Iran. Will it work
again?
|4.4.08 @ 11:44AM|#
That's when I got my first taste of the famous McCain
technique: I'll-talk-so-you-can't.
That's not just a McCain technique. It's used widely in
politics.
|4.4.08 @ 11:46AM|#
Like...Catholics? Granted, I live in Rhode Island, so my
perception of how Catholics get along in the USA is a tad
distorted, but still.
Yes, I was talking about the Irish actually :)
Travis|4.4.08 @ 11:48AM|#
"I think that the Iranians are very possibly going to step up
their assistance to the Jihadists"
Well at least he didn't say Al-Qaeda was being supported by Iran
this time.
Abdul|4.4.08 @ 11:57AM|#
It's been less than five years since Bush lied about al
Qaeda connections as a way to drum up support for a war with Iraq,
and now McCain is telling the same lie about Iran. Will it work
again?
It's not a lie this time. From the New Republic:
the 9/11 Commission actually did find extensive ties between Al
Qaeda and Iran (in that several of the hijackers passed through
Iran in the months leading up to the attack, that "Iran made a
concerted effort to strengthen relations with Al Qaeda after the
October 2000 attack on the USS Cole," that Iran harbored Al Qaeda
members after the fall of the Taliban, etc.
Linky:
http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/04/03/grasping-at-straws.aspx
See also: "9/11 Commission Finds Ties Between al-Qaeda and Iran"
www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,664967,00.html
|4.4.08 @ 11:58AM|#
...apparently to defy the laws of thermodynamics.
"Have you built the world's first perpetual motion machine?"
"The ocean is a perpetual motion machine. Fluid Karma is a
simulation of the principles you see working right here. As long as
the waves continue to crash, Fluid Karma will exist."
|4.4.08 @ 12:00PM|#
"A perpetual motion machine is a machine designed to defy one of
the laws of thermodynamics."
"I think for someone who writes about science..."
"You're just reading a bunch of stuff you read off the
internet!"
lol
|4.4.08 @ 12:04PM|#
It's been less than five years since Bush lied about al
Qaeda connections as a way to drum up support for a war with
Iraq,
Are you sure about that timeline? The war started more than 5 years
ago.
and now McCain is telling the same lie about Iran. Will it work
again?
I think it would be a harder sell this time.
|4.4.08 @ 12:09PM|#
It's not a lie this time. From the New Republic:
Abdul, do you think the US should declare war on
Iran?
Saudi Arabia?
Syria?
Yemen?
Somalia?
Pakistan?
|4.4.08 @ 12:10PM|#
Abdul,
Both of those statements - al Qaeda members "passed through" the
country, and the country's intelligence services made contact with
al Qaeda members - were the heart of the "Saddam is supporting al
Qaeda" charges last time.
It's the same story.
Abdul|4.4.08 @ 12:16PM|#
Joe,
So what you're saying is that the 9/11 commission, time Magazine,
and the New Republic are carrying McCain's water because they want
war with Iran?
I think a better explanation is that Iran is willing to strengthen
America's enemies, despite niggling differences in theology. Hell,
Iran has made diplomatic overtures to Venezuela, with which it has
little in common except anti-Americanism and oil reserves that it
can't refine.
Elemenope|4.4.08 @ 12:29PM|#
"The ocean is a perpetual motion machine. Fluid Karma is a
simulation of the principles you see working right here. As long as
the waves continue to crash, Fluid Karma will exist."
"Did I just see one car doing another?"
"Don't worry, that's the European version."
"Oh. OK."
|4.4.08 @ 12:31PM|#
Nope. What I'm actually saying, you can read in the comments
above.
I think a better explanation is that the same media organs that
were hawkish and gullible last time continue to be hawkish and
gullible.
Oh, and btw, al Qaeda's long history of blowing up Shiite mosques
and slaughtering Shiite civilians in Iraq, Afghanist, and Pakistan
is not, in fact, a "niggling theological detail." Al Qaeda
considers Shiite Islam to be a heresy, and the Iranian government
to be their enemy. This is why the speculated Iran/al Qaeda link is
even dumber than the Iraqi/al Qaeda link: though hostile towards
the Saddam regime, they weren't actively carrying out attacks
against it and its supporters.
|4.4.08 @ 12:49PM|#
Didn't Al Qaeda pass through the US on the sept? IF that is the criteria for beign a terror state then the US qualifies as much as IRan...they lived herer, they trained here In flight schools and even on US military bases like in Pensacola Florida. Some of the terrorist were stopped at the airport and held up because they were on the terror watch list, but the CIA says "let them through they work for us".
|4.4.08 @ 12:57PM|#
Terrorist trained in the US. Pensacola trainer threatened with
court martial to shut-up.
http://www.onlinejournal.com/archive/10-30-01_Hopsicker-printable.pdf
|4.4.08 @ 1:00PM|#
Abdul -
I'm waiting for a response. I'm in the mood to unload on a neocon's
stupid ass. Please. tell me where we should go to war after the
glorious Iraq victory.
Elemenope|4.4.08 @ 1:03PM|#
Please. tell me where we should go to war after the glorious
Iraq victory.
I, for one, vote Switzerland. We'll take their chocolate, their
watches, and their women, and wipe those "never been conquered"
smirks right off their smarmy well-fed faces.
|4.4.08 @ 1:05PM|#
To be fair to Abdul, he didn't make a statement that we should
invade Iran. He made a statement about evidence of al Qaeda
links.
These are not the neoconservatives you're looking for.
Taktix®|4.4.08 @ 2:02PM|#
Yes, but how are we to get past their legions of citizens armed with extremely handy pocket knives?
alan|4.4.08 @ 2:03PM|#
Much more relevant than any damn thing that comes out of TNR's
editorial board.
http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/04/al-qaeda-2-well.html
LarryA|4.4.08 @ 3:08PM|#
You'll all be sorry when the Rapture comes and you get Left
Behind! But John McCain, and Kirk Cameron, won't be.
The world will be a better place afterward.
I, for one, vote Switzerland. We'll take their chocolate, their
watches, and their women, and wipe those "never been conquered"
smirks right off their smarmy well-fed faces.
Switzerland = mountains where everyone has an assault rifle in
their closet. They've earned the "never been
conquered" smirks. I hope you're willing to walk point.
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