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Obama Speech — the View From Elaine's
I happened to catch Barack Obama's big race speech yesterday morn in the odd environs of the Columbia University Journalism School, where I watched it with some of my fellow judges at the National Magazine Awards. The collective verdict of the nation's glossiest editors? Somewhere in the loamy middle between fan-fucking-tabulous and history-changing, once-every-half-century OMG. People were excusing themselves to call their wives ... did you watch that? Though the award judging is legendarily secretive, I can exclusively confirm to Hit & Run readers that one person told me that the room was so quiet where he was watching it that even Jacob Weisberg stopped using his Blackberry.
Hopping into an elevator together, a bunch of us agreed that it was a pretty terrific speech*. "But," said one, "we're not exactly the Real America."
This brings up an intriguing point -- Obama essentially punted the ball back into America's court yesterday, which is interesting on its own, but all the more so because his Republican opponent will probably not use any kind of code-word race-baiting in this campaign, and in fact will likely condemn his own allies if they do so. That could leave both the dirty political work and the cleansing national conversations to happen outside the realm of high-level presidential campaigning. (It will also probably lead to two candidates bashing the free speech of 527 groups, and competing with one another to see who would ban them quickest.) All else being equal (which it never is), I prefer my vicious and/or clarifying racial arguments taking place from the ground up, not stoked cynically from the top down.
* I thought The Speech was captivating and -- yes! -- audacious, up until the point he started committing the stump-fallacy of "once we solve X, then we can unleash Y." Especially when moving beyond Culture War race tensions would unite us ... uh, against corporations? And in favor of a throw-more-money-at-it approach to the lousy public school system? There's a time and place to empty your gumbo pot of campaign promises; a world-historical race speech doesn't seem to me to be one of them. Though maybe that's just because I disagree with many of his ideas.
|3.19.08 @ 11:18AM|#
Why do I keep getting the feeling that there's a certain class
of people out there who want stuff to feel historic and
momentous? It's almost as if the modern era is so bereft of
anything substantive, people are jonesing to feel like they're
living through something of Major Importance.
Honestly, it's like certain people are getting a sizzling little
emotional charge not out of the substance of any of this stuff, but
from being able to portray it in their own heads as "historic."
It's weird.
Guy Montag|3.19.08 @ 11:19AM|#
And in favor of a throw-more-money-at-it approach to the
lousy public school system?
Generally, aren't the worst performing school systems located in
cities that have been Leftist/Socialist Utopias for decades?
It appears that he is ready to share the experience with the rest
of the nation.
Jimmy|3.19.08 @ 11:21AM|#
Obama's speech "A More
Perfect Union" was just brilliant. Most impressive was his
ability stand with one foot in his White heritage and the other in
his Black heritage and speak frankly about race in a way neither a
Black or White man ever could.
Even more impressive for me, is that after 8 years with a
slack-jawed dufus in the Whitehouse, we can look forward to not
only a President that can string a 6 word sentence together without
drooling on himself, but he can actually WRITE such an elequent
speech.
That's right - Obama wrote
that speech he gave. By Himself. This speech, being lauded over
by both critics and pundits alike as "Historical", was written by
Senator Obama. He gets it. Without being told what to say and think
by polls and advisors - he really gets it.
The man is impressive and uniquely qualified to lead our country in
these Dark times.
Guy Montag|3.19.08 @ 11:23AM|#
Why do I keep getting the feeling that there's a certain
class of people out there who want stuff to feel historic and
momentous?
Seems to be a trait of the typing/chattering classes. Appears to be
concentrated amoung those who enjoy quoting others and rarely come
up with original ideas of their own.
I do not believe that Mr. Welch is actually in that class, but he
was surrounded by them during the event he wrote about.
|3.19.08 @ 11:26AM|#
Honestly, it's like certain people are getting a sizzling
little emotional charge not out of the substance of any of this
stuff, but from being able to portray it in their own heads as
"historic." It's weird.
It probably would have been if it hadn't been used as an apology
for a scandal.
|3.19.08 @ 11:29AM|#
I'm sorry, aren't libetarians convinced there are problems with
urban schools and health care?
I see assertions about the deep and abiding concern among
libertarians about these issues all the time.
Except when a liberal mentions them - mentions them, and doesn't
even describe what to do about them - in which case just saying
there are problems to address demonstates how awful he is.
Pick a side: either you're just as concerned about these problems
and have EVEN BETTER solutions, or only "socialists" think there
are problems there.
This both-sides-of-the-mouth shtick isn't going to cut it.
Other Matt|3.19.08 @ 11:30AM|#
Why do I keep getting the feeling that there's a certain
class of people out there who want stuff to feel historic and
momentous?
Why would you think this is new? Everyone searches for relevance,
and people who are of a political bent experience it by being a
part of "historic and momentous" events.
Though maybe that's just because I disagree with many of his
ideas.
His ideas in general suck, if you really look at them. Problem is,
he doesn't speak to them, and people get caught up in how he's
presenting and don't look for what he's actually planning. That's
kind of scary if you think about it.
|3.19.08 @ 11:30AM|#
My reply to an email I got from a friend saying how history
making this was:
A politician on the campaign trail promises that if elected we'll
all learn to love each other and live in peace and harmony. Oh and
every little girl gets a pony.
Wake me when it's over... No don't bother I already know how this
ends.
Meet the new boss.
Same as the old boss.
Other Matt|3.19.08 @ 11:31AM|#
I'm sorry, aren't libetarians convinced there are problems
with urban schools and health care?
joe, on an idea level, it's a matter of your solution being worse
than the current problem.
drawnasunder|3.19.08 @ 11:33AM|#
Let flow the sweet, pure tears of the little baby jesus and behold the healing awesomeness of Obama.
|3.19.08 @ 11:34AM|#
But that's the point, Other Matt: Obama didn't even mention any
solutions. He said that getting past racial trench warfare would
help us to find better solutions.
And even THAT is unacceptably "socialist."
|3.19.08 @ 11:34AM|#
Maybe it's because this sort of thing falls across my aesthetic
blind spot, but I really think all the pundits shooting in their
pants over this speech are going a little over the top. I mean, it
was a good speech, but when I start hearing words like "historic",
I have to believe some people don't get out often enough.
Just to put some perspective on this, keep in mind Lincoln's
Gettysburg address was panned by the pundits at the time, and
Republicans heckled Kennedy's "Ask not what your country can do for
you, but what you can do for your country" as effectively saying,
"Ask not what I can do for you, but what you can do for me" (not
that they were wrong).
How about just letting history decide what's historic, and in the
meantime put your weenies back in your pants, and go get a life,
mmmkay?
some guy|3.19.08 @ 11:37AM|#
people out there [who] want stuff to feel historic and
momentous?
In a world full of midgets, Obama seems like a giant.
Mad Max|3.19.08 @ 11:39AM|#
"The man is impressive and uniquely qualified to lead our
country in these Dark times."
What, exactly, is wrong with "Dark," honky?
|3.19.08 @ 11:39AM|#
Why would you think this is new? Everyone searches for
relevance, and people who are of a political bent experience it by
being a part of "historic and momentous" events.
Because I don't get the impression that people of a century ago
were sitting around searching for stuff they could latch onto and
excite themselves thinking, "Oooh oooh oooh, this is a Historic Big
Deal and it feels really cool, like being a real-life character in
those books I've read and movies I've watched!"
That's what this, on the other hand, seems like.
Matt Welch|3.19.08 @ 11:40AM|#
joe -- current incidents of discrimination, while less overt than in the past - are real and must be addressed. Not just with words, but with deeds - by investing in our schools and our communities.
|3.19.08 @ 11:41AM|#
Very impressive, beautiful and impassioned speech.
I'm a hardcore libertarian, and yet even I would have to go rooting
around in my biased worldview to sniff out any "socialism" in his
speech.
Well done, Senator. You may have gotten my vote.
|3.19.08 @ 11:43AM|#
jimmy, did you feel a thrill go up your leg?
i suffered through about half of it, then turned it off. gaseous
platitudes, what a surprise.
|3.19.08 @ 11:43AM|#
Not just with words, but with deeds - by investing in our
schools and our communities.
What politician wouldn't say that, Matt? I know
"investment" is a fancy word for "tax," but I've been hearing it
for so fucking long it just doesn't matter.
|3.19.08 @ 11:45AM|#
Am I the only one that feels that the voters in general in this
country are in that "midget" class. That the average voter is
getting his/her info from the heavily editted comments of the rev
Wright? That the mind was made up and they aren't really looking
for a reasonable explanation, no matter how eloquent and heartfelt
it may have been? Reality shows are huge here because we as a
nation love to see folks get their asses handed to them.
The average voter here doesn't have the willingness to practice
much forgiveness of what was initially presented to them as a major
faux pas.
Matt Welch|3.19.08 @ 11:47AM|#
Jamie -- I guess working on the editorial board of a newspaper in a progressive big city & state has made me particularly allergic to "investment" as the solution to schooling.
|3.19.08 @ 11:48AM|#
Matt,
Libertarians don't believe in investing in schools and
communities?
Funny, they all pretend to be excited about all the investment
private corporations make when they open a charter school.
dhex|3.19.08 @ 11:51AM|#
Because I don't get the impression that people of a century
ago were sitting around searching for stuff they could latch
onto
really?
alternate explanation: the pace and panopticon-esque information
flow of modern life makes the chaos of individuality seem
meaningless from a broad, top-down view.
alternate explanation (2): the pace and panopticon-esque
information flow of modern life makes the chaos of individuality
seem meaningless due to too much familiarity and too many warts.
with every subculture on display, there seems like there are fewer
frontiers of the mind in which to play, even if there are so very
many more.
|3.19.08 @ 11:53AM|#
"Meet the new boss.
Same as the old boss."
Right on, Warren.
This guy is the same as the other power seekers.
He does seem to have the ability to sway crowds with his rhetoric,
though.
Why do we wind up with the worst of our citizens running our
government?
That last is to include most of them, not just this snake oil
salesman.
|3.19.08 @ 11:55AM|#
I guess working on the editorial board of a newspaper in a
progressive big city & state has made me particularly allergic
to "investment" as the solution to schooling.
Me too. And I say that as a journalist in a small liberal
community. But hey -- everybody's sayin' it! Get on board,
Matt!
:-)
stephen the goldberger|3.19.08 @ 11:55AM|#
Someone made the interesting point, that even though the "real
america" might not get it, the superdelegates will probably get it,
and find it irresistable.
I personally thought it was the best speech I've ever heard/read in
my relatively short lifetime, although I've only really been aware
of such issues in the past ten years, and the major speech giver in
my life was George W. Bush, so...
In any case, I really want Obama to win the democratic nomination
right now, and I am immensely curious what his rhetoric will be in
the general election.
dhex|3.19.08 @ 11:55AM|#
joe, when a liberal presidential candidate says "we should
invest in xyz" do you think he means private investing?
if so pass the fucking bong already, you delicious statist
scoundrel!
Mad Max|3.19.08 @ 11:55AM|#
Did Obama mean private investment when he spoke of investing in
schools?
Here's the key test of that proposition: If the public-school lobby
screams bloody murder that Obama wants to abandon disadvantaged
students and turn the public schools over to Halliburton, that
would indicate to me that Obama is, in fact, open to alternatives
to the government-run school system.
Has anybody heard such protests from the ps lobby yet? If not,
maybe it's because they interpret "investment" the same way all
Democratic candidates do.
|3.19.08 @ 11:57AM|#
The only part of his speech that really had me rolling my eyes was when he said his mixed-race background had encoded something special in his DNA, or some such bone-headed racial refrain, that makes him uniquely qualified to speak about race.
|3.19.08 @ 11:59AM|#
I have to say that it was a very good speech, a speech that was worthy of any college campus or Sunday church outing. That being said, I don't think it had anything to do his campaign or his issues with his favorite church leader. That being said, take this as what it is, and stop raging on the guy just because you don't like him or his political beliefs. This country is made up of many different ideas and people. I don't care what REv. WRight said, its his first amend. right to say what he likes. He is harmless to me, and honestly is speaking the truth as he (HE) sees it. Screw it. My issue with this is about how both sides the right and the left can't seem to keep their religion out of their damn politics. Separation of Church and State! I am not against religion, it works well for many, just keep it out of my government and politics.
|3.19.08 @ 11:59AM|#
I'm appalled at the significance people are giving a speech.
Words. Not even policy, just rhetoric. The content of which was
required by the razor's edge he walks on race issues at
this point. I'm not denigrating his oratorical skills or saying
that he did not do a good job addressing the Wright issue, but this
is hardly some great turning point in U.S. history. Ye gods, I
thought one thing we would all agree on is that talk is
cheap.
In any event, Obama remains inexperienced, substantively weak
(talking about race and proposing anything substantive is
impossible for him right now, and note that he's not doing that).
If this is all so central to his campaign message, why now? Why not
a year ago? It's damage control, however artfully presented.
Sorry, joe, you can go back to your hagiography, already in
progress. I'm just grumpy and cynical.
|3.19.08 @ 12:01PM|#
However, I did hear on good authority that "The era of big
government is over!" That was in a speech, too. And also well
delivered.
Egad.
some guy|3.19.08 @ 12:03PM|#
It was an ok speech, delivered well, better than most of what today's midgets can manage. Hardly Churchillian, but what is, these days?
Neu Mejican|3.19.08 @ 12:07PM|#
Interesting:
Fox News Poll: Did Obama's speech change your opinion of
him...
12% yes
87% no
1% neither
The important question is how many of that 12% moved from
unfavorable to favorable.
The 87% should be split according to his previous support among the
audience --those who say "I liked him, did not change my opinion or
I oppose him and still do."
what|3.19.08 @ 12:07PM|#
Obama regularly criticizes the "throw money at it" philosophy and supports charter schools/merit-based pay for teachers
|3.19.08 @ 12:07PM|#
It was a great speech.
It said nothing about policy.
We shouldn't be all giddy.
We shouldn't be all cynical.
It was a great speech.
Next!
Neu Mejican|3.19.08 @ 12:09PM|#
I forgot an important component of the Fox News Poll...
A good chunk of that 87% probably didn't see the speech and felt
they needed to chime in that it hadn't changed their opinion
because the didn't see it.
Who participates in these unscientific polls anyway?
|3.19.08 @ 12:11PM|#
"(Obama) said getting past racial trench war would help us find
better solutions."
Anyone disagree with this assertion? Of course not. I'm just
disappointed Sen. Obama's speech didn't end "And that's what I've
been trying to tell Rev. Wright for the last twenty years." If you
are going to talk the talk, you should have walked the walk or some
voters will conclude that it wasn't really an issue for you until
you were called on it.
Mad Max|3.19.08 @ 12:11PM|#
"Separation of Church and State! I am not against religion, it
works well for many, just keep it out of my government and
politics."
That's right. For instance, it's all right to teach "thou shalt not
kill" or "thou shalt not steal" in the church or synagogue, but
trying to make such religious sentiments the basis of publc policy,
as libertarians do with their "no initiation of force or fraud"
doctrine, is simply sectarian.
If your personal religious beliefs don't allow murder or stealing,
that's fine, just don't commit any murders or thefts. But don't
presume to impose your religious views on others. There are other
perfectly acceptable viewpoints. For instance, Freddy Nietszche was
all into the will to power, which sometimes may involve taking
stuff without the consent of the wimpy owner, or offing people who
deserve to die.
Long live secularism!
|3.19.08 @ 12:12PM|#
Because I don't get the impression that people of a century
ago were sitting around searching for stuff they could latch
onto
really?
Er, when you snip my sentence like that, then yeah -- it makes
sense to sarcastically ask, "really?"
But I didn't write that people a century ago weren't searching for
stuff to latch onto. I wrote that they weren't searching for THIS
PARTICULAR stuff to latch onto to THIS PARTICULAR emotional
end.
The points about the information age and the perceived meaningless
of individuality are correct. That's exactly what it's all about.
Couple that with the decline of religion and, yes, it's easy to see
why people would be hungering to find new ways to infuse their
lives with bigger meaning.
|3.19.08 @ 12:12PM|#
I personally thought it was the best speech I've ever
heard/read in my relatively short lifetime,
I heard a good part of it on the radio, so maybe (like Kennedy) he
comes across much better on TV, but
I wasn't knocked out by the delivery. I thought it was kind of
stiff.
As for the content, color me unimpressed. The speech was riddled
with questionable equivalences. After the bit about his white
grandmother I actually had a hard time believing that he was
accusing his own grandmother of being a racist on national TV to
further his own political career.
As for the rest of the speech, it struck me as a mishmash of
questionable equivalences. His reasoning for not leaving Rev.
Wright's flock struck me as laughably unconvincing; apparently,
because there are some batshit crazy guys circulating somewhere in
black America, there's no reason to distance yourself from the
batshit crazy guy running your church.
|3.19.08 @ 12:14PM|#
Pro Libertate, can you teach me how to slump against the wall,
blow out a stream of smoke, and mutter, "It's all just bullshit,
man?"
Please?
It sounds so much cooler than actually sticking your neck out.
Neu Mejican|3.19.08 @ 12:16PM|#
Obama on education
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/
Competitive Grants for Evidence-Based Models to Help Students
Graduate: Studies show that a majority of students who leave high
school without a diploma continue to pursue the goal of high school
graduation. Unfortunately, states and districts lack the resources
to make substantial investments in alternative education pathways.
Non-profit and community-based organizations have tried to fill in
the gap, but they lack substantial resources. As president, Barack
Obama will establish a competitive grant process open to existing
or proposed public/private partnerships or entities that are
pursuing evidence-based models that work - such as Diploma Plus or
Teacher Advisor programs. These grants will decrease the dropout
rate by increasing the capacity of state and district leaders as
well as outside leaders - foundations, politicians, entrepreneurs,
and community leaders - to collaborate on improving graduation
rates.
Mike Laursen|3.19.08 @ 12:17PM|#
Dammit, I gotta side with joe.
When liberals talk about societal problems there's often a subtext
of "we need much bigger government" that you're sure is there, but
often isn't explicitly stated.
I've been working really hard on reacting to what liberals actually
say, not to my assumptions about what they say. I know I get tired
of people assuming a whole subtext to my political ideas, based on
their past experience with hardcore Libertarians or
Objectivists.
Thing is liberals and libertarians are from the same family tree,
and are concerned about the same things. Liberals just haven't
really taken a good look at how government actually works.
Guy Montag|3.19.08 @ 12:17PM|#
JK,
I know "investment" is a fancy word for "tax,"
Actually, it is a fancy word for "spend" and, politically, "like a
drunken sailor" is silent, but implied.
The fancy word for "tax" is "contribution", with "at the barrel of
a gun" being understood by the contributors.
stephen the goldberger|3.19.08 @ 12:17PM|#
I wasn't knocked out by the delivery. I thought it was kind
of stiff.
Yeah i didnt see the entire speech delivered, I just heard
soundbites and read the whole thing on my own.
javier|3.19.08 @ 12:24PM|#
it was a good speech. actually a politician that spoke to us
like adults.
however, i had a few problems.
he seemed to say if you are against affirmitive action, it is some
how based on whites uncomfort with blacks getting a hand and not
them, when some actually oppose it from a belief in
individualism.
|3.19.08 @ 12:24PM|#
joe,
You turn the dial to rude too quickly. What has Obama done in his
career to impress me, or even you? Even as a speech, where was this
earlier? Why give mere words some gigantic value when they've
proved over and over again to be valueless?
I daresay I've stuck my neck out more than you have. I don't
reflexively defend even libertarian people just because they're on
"my side".
I haven't said that the association with Wright was necessarily a
big deal and think it probably isn't. All I've said is that a
speech means exactly nothing, except that it was an artful way of
dealing with this iteration of this crisis. That's it. I think my
cynicism about politicians is well supported and the wise course of
action. I don't think undue excitement about a politician who
otherwise is unimpressive makes any sense at all.
D.A. Ridgely|3.19.08 @ 12:25PM|#
I heard a good part of it on the radio, so maybe (like
Kennedy) he comes across much better on TV...
I have little doubt that if everything we knew of either Obama or
Hillary was from entirely the newspapers people would neither like
him nor hate her nearly as much. Part of that, of course, is simply
the over-exposure Hillary had for so many years (which is not to
deny that to know her better is to like her less) but it somewhat
surprises me how starkly the charisma factor is playing out in the
Democratic race this time around.
D.A. Ridgely|3.19.08 @ 12:27PM|#
EDIT: "was from entirely ..." obviously should be "was entirely from ..."
RTFS|3.19.08 @ 12:29PM|#
After the bit about his white grandmother I actually had a
hard time believing that he was accusing his own grandmother of
being a racist on national TV to further his own political
career.
I must have missed that part... guess I was actually paying
attention to the part where he mentioned that everybody,
even his grandmother - has ugly biases, and how that doesn't
necessarily make them a bad person.
dhex|3.19.08 @ 12:32PM|#
For instance, Freddy Nietszche was all into the will to
power, which sometimes may involve taking stuff without the consent
of the wimpy owner, or offing people who deserve to die.
hey nietzche called and said you should try reading some of his
books sometime.
also he would like a chocolate bundt cake recipe for his new
cookbook, The Will To Flour, a followup to his earlier success,
Twilight of the Muffins.
|3.19.08 @ 12:33PM|#
Except when a liberal mentions them - mentions them, and
doesn't even describe what to do about them
Wait a second Obama has been in the Senate for like 4 years and is
running for President and he has only pointed out what is wrong
with shit yet has said absolutely nothing about he will fix said
problems?!?!
Why are we even listening to this asshole at all? And why are we
listening to Obama?
Elemenope|3.19.08 @ 12:37PM|#
Libertarians don't believe in investing in schools and
communities?
Even Pericles was a Keynesian. Seemed to work out well for the
Olive Kingdom...then again, they established power based on free
trade. Either way, wealthy kingdoms with notable success invested
heavily in the "physical plant", so to speak, of their
civilizations. I don't see how ours is any exception.
For instance, Freddy Nietszche was all into the will to power,
which sometimes may involve taking stuff without the consent of the
wimpy owner, or offing people who deserve to die.
If you are going to misuse the name of a philosopher you obviously
haven't read, at least have the decency to spell it correctly.
Gilbert Martin|3.19.08 @ 12:38PM|#
"His reasoning for not leaving Rev. Wright's flock struck me as
laughably unconvincing; apparently, because there are some batshit
crazy guys circulating somewhere in black America, there's no
reason to distance yourself from the batshit crazy guy running your
church."
His reasons for joining it in the first place was purely political
- he needed to establish his bona fide "blackness" in the Chicago
political environment that he wanted to advance in.
Obama is just another slick politician - not some "transcendent"
figure.
He used his association with the preacher and the church to advance
himself when he was in an environment where that was an asset to
him. Now that it's not, he tried to spin away his association by
first claiming he never heard any of the stuff the reverend was
spewing, which was a lie and patently absurd. That didn't work, so
he had to try something else, hence the speech to redirect the
focus away from what he did and didn't know about Wright and when
did he know it to the notion that this whole episode is an
illustration of OUR lack of dealing with the "unfinished business"
of race.
|3.19.08 @ 12:41PM|#
Mike L., you have a bit of a general point, but there's no
evidence that it applies to Obama on this. Whatever his rhetoric,
his voting record at the federal and state level is pretty pure
left-liberal, and so it's not much of a stretch to assume we know
what he means by "investment."
My view: barring some catastrophe, there's no way Obama gets
elected president. His appeal to moderates and even some
Republicans and libertarians was largely predicated on rhetoric
about post-racial unity. Unfortunately, the degree to which he
defends Wright indicates his actual beliefs seem to be aligned with
black liberation theology, which is just a candy coating of
Christianity around a gooey center of racial grievance and
Marxism.
The only other option is that he doesn't really believe this
claptrap, and has been cynically going along with it to please his
wife and get elected in Chicago, but that's politically fatal
nationally.
And, of course, Democratic party bigwigs must know he can't get
elected nationally now, but he has the most delegates, so what can
they do? Heh.
|3.19.08 @ 12:42PM|#
Wow, I never thought there would be another "Wayne" posting
here. I don't have a lot of heartburn with what he said
though.
I think it was the best speech I have ever seen by a politician. I
like Obama's voice. I like the way he talks in short phrases and
pauses between them. If you aspire to public speaking you ought to
watch that speech 100 times and plagiarize his style and
delivery.
Guy Montag|3.19.08 @ 12:43PM|#
Even after all of this discussion and comment, nobody but nobody has topped the imagery of Rev. Wright's "ridin' nasty" statement.
T|3.19.08 @ 12:47PM|#
I don't think undue excitement about a politician who
otherwise is unimpressive makes any sense at all.
Aww, c'mon, PL. It was a really good speech! Surely that's worth
something?
I dunno. I was listening to Heller on C-Span last night, and
skipped the Obamapology.
|3.19.08 @ 12:51PM|#
This Rev Wright situation really does put the Dems in a pickle. Clearly they ought to nominate BO because he is by far the best candidate. But does he stand a chance in the general election now that white voters realize that he has a past even darker than the cocaine and the shady real estate deals?
Mad Max|3.19.08 @ 12:53PM|#
Sugar Free,
You should follow the advice implied by your name and not get such
a sugar rush before posting things on the Internet.
dhex,
I'm still waiting for Nietszche to come out with *God Is Dead and
I'm Not Feeling So Good Myself.*
|3.19.08 @ 12:53PM|#
I did like the speech, but I have to agree that it was exactly
that... a speech. Now, Obama is young enough that he may be open to
ideas as opposed to running on a single solution to problems.
That's fine.
But I don't kid myself that he's going to be any knight in shining
armor, riding a white horse. The best I can hope for is for him to
be for more market-based solutions to problems, seeing as they tend
to cost less and work as well, or better, than command and control
policies. That still means there's a lot of centralized control,
but at least it would be an improvement.
Scientist|3.19.08 @ 12:54PM|#
Who participates in these unscientific polls anyway?
Well not me, that's for sure!
|3.19.08 @ 12:55PM|#
Obama's speechwriters are brilliant -- unless Obama himself
actually wrote this speech, which no one has established.
Beautiful words, hiding in them this ugly reality of what the SOB
would like to do to us:
"And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective
corners, we will never be able to come together and solve
challenges like health care, or education, or the need to find good
jobs for every American."
Ummm, so much for the Tenth Amendment and limited government if
this socialist gets in power.
Standard libertarian disclaimer #1: The other front-running
candidates, inevitably, are also statist SOBs.
Elemenope|3.19.08 @ 12:55PM|#
But does he stand a chance in the general election now that
white voters realize that he has a past even darker than the
cocaine and the shady real estate deals?
Maybe I'm just tone-deaf to the apparently great dark fears at the
base of the White middle class subconscious (which is odd, because
I am a middle-class honky), but I fail to see what exactly is so
fucking scary about a guy going to a church that has a pissed-off
angry black preacher.
dhex|3.19.08 @ 12:58PM|#
max, mad: hey, i'm here to help people learn about themselves,
and each other, and hopefully one day heal this great nation by
turning everyone against steve vai fans.
they are the perfect scapegoat.
on a (slightly) more serious note: fred is one of those guys who -
like thomas kuhn - is quoted and namechecked by many yet read by
very, very few. people tend to overlook stuff they don't like when
using him in the pro and overlook stuff they would agree with when
using him in the con. his antidemocratic tendencies come to mind
for both of those categories.
anyway, the concept of the will to power is worth learning about,
for what it's worth.
|3.19.08 @ 1:00PM|#
"Maybe I'm just tone-deaf to the apparently great dark fears at
the base of the White middle class subconscious (which is odd,
because I am a middle-class honky), but I fail to see what exactly
is so fucking scary about a guy going to a church that has a
pissed-off angry black preacher."
Suppose you were running for president (middle class honkey that
you are), and it turned out that you had been a close confidant of
David Duke? He was the godfather to your children, and you had sat
at his knee for twenty years while he shaped your world-view on all
manner of topics? Do you think that might taint you a bit?
Neu Mejican|3.19.08 @ 1:05PM|#
But does he stand a chance in the general election now that
white voters realize that he has a past even darker than the
cocaine and the shady real estate deals?
I am always amazed at how easily people buy into the pretend
scandal aspects of a campaign...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html
Even in the midst of this scandal, Obama beats McCain in 5 polls
and loses in 4.
Do you really feel like McCain is that strong a candidate?
Mad Max|3.19.08 @ 1:05PM|#
dhex,
Please not that I used the word "sometimes" in describing theft and
murder under Freddy's worldview.
I am aware that he spoke favorably of superior people taking an
aritocratic and tolerant attitude toward their inferiors, even
being nice to them, as a sign of their superior-ness or
something.
Anyway, the more I read Freddy the less I comprehend him, but I
know he can't be portrayed as a stickler for the 10
Commandments.
|3.19.08 @ 1:11PM|#
A defining speech indeed. When he mentioned and finally admitted that he had previously heard remarks that could be considered controversial and that he strongly disagree with many of his (Rev. Wright) political views. As soon as these words were uttered, he realized that it was a grave mistake to go against his statement just days ago. Quick thinking Obama indeed: "I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.". By this, he defined every American is guilty of the same offense as he. What a joke? And instead pointing him out for lying under broad daylight and take offense by his insinuation, many applaused despite being slapped. Sad.
Agent Urkobold™|3.19.08 @ 1:12PM|#
Obama is tainted? Human taints are a disease, a cancer of this planet. Taints are a plague, and the Urkobold. . .is the cure.
Charles|3.19.08 @ 1:12PM|#
I'm reaching the point where I don't care if Obama's preacher called me out by name as an example of the kind of white devil who needs exterminating. I consider myself a politics junkie type, but moderation! It was an interesting story, but not particularly important in the qualifications for president sense. It was a pretty good speech, but only because of the sad state of the art of political rhetoric in this country.
Mike Laursen|3.19.08 @ 1:17PM|#
also he would like a chocolate bundt cake recipe for his new
cookbook, The Will To Flour, a followup to his earlier success,
Twilight of the Muffins.
Wow, you have actual Nietzche material?! That's impressive. I'm
even more impressed if you ad-libbed that.
|3.19.08 @ 1:25PM|#
"Even in the midst of this scandal, Obama beats McCain in 5
polls and loses in 4.
Do you really feel like McCain is that strong a candidate?"
I will admit that having McCain in the opposite corner betters BO's
chances considerably.
Neu Mejican|3.19.08 @ 1:26PM|#
a close confidant of David Duke?
Do you not see the difference between David Duke and Wright?
I am not supporting Wright's views, but there are degrees of
wrongness even on the topic of race.
I would put right more in the Pat Buchanan range than the David
Duke range.
|3.19.08 @ 1:27PM|#
Mike Larsen,
There's a panoply of Nietzsche cooking literature. Aside from those
mentioned above, there's also Twice Baked Zarathustra.
Mike Laursen|3.19.08 @ 1:28PM|#
Mike L., you have a bit of a general point, but there's no
evidence that it applies to Obama on this.
I gotta admit I don't know his voting record well. That's
intentional. I think the institution of the Presidency is just too
damned powerful no matter who holds the office. Consequently,
Americans are way too wrapped up in President worship/fear/loathing
and following the Presidential horse race. I don't intend to vote
for anybody for President.
Elemenope|3.19.08 @ 1:29PM|#
Anyway, the more I read Freddy the less I comprehend him,
but I know he can't be portrayed as a stickler for the 10
Commandments.
Funny you should say that...Nietzsche actually identified the
law-making capacity of the Jews as a great cultural step
forward in the history of ideas (and on that basis
includes them amongst his identification of the four great western
civilizations, alongside the Greeks, the Persians, and the
Germans).
He just thought the Christian idea of applying Jewish
rules to people who were not Jewish was damn silly.
I guess you'd better keep studying. ;)
Neu Mejican|3.19.08 @ 1:31PM|#
And the much maligned cookbook
Human, All Too Human
It's a COOK BOOK!!!!!!
Elemenope|3.19.08 @ 1:33PM|#
Human, All Too Human
It's a COOK BOOK!!!!!!
Now, that's fucking funny. Nietzsche and the Twilight
Zone, together at last.
|3.19.08 @ 1:35PM|#
I wondered if anybody would remark on the "taint" thing. It's like being in fifth grade again :-).
|3.19.08 @ 1:37PM|#
Weak what, though? Nietzsche never specified. At least, not until he wrote that cookbook. Ick.
Mike Laursen|3.19.08 @ 1:39PM|#
Laursen, with a 'u'. I'm not some damned Swenska all driving around in my Volvo and talking like, "Borgee borgee borgee." (Are Volvos Swedish? I'm not even sure.)
|3.19.08 @ 1:45PM|#
Generally, aren't the worst performing school systems
located in cities that have been Leftist/Socialist Utopias for
decades?
Yeah, look how sucky Berkley is!
Elemenope|3.19.08 @ 1:49PM|#
Generally, aren't the worst performing school systems
located in cities that have been Leftist/Socialist Utopias for
decades?
Yeah. Boston Latin...fucking terrible.
Mike Laursen|3.19.08 @ 1:49PM|#
I think you mean Berkeley. And I think they were talking about K-12 education.
highnumber|3.19.08 @ 1:52PM|#
As soon as these words were uttered, he realized that it was
a grave mistake to go against his statement just days ago. Quick
thinking Obama indeed: "I'm sure many of you have heard remarks
from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly
disagreed."
Hey, Substance!
He thinks so quickly that he put those words in the text that was
leaked before he even gave the speech.
Leaked
text from yesterday morning
(I found the link here at H&R!)
|3.19.08 @ 1:55PM|#
I don't know that Alabama is a leftist/socialist utopia. But the fact is that the schools here with the worst academic performance are the ones with the highest percentage of black students. The way the schools are funded here at a local level, these districts also tend to be poorer,predominantly black areas, that result in less per student funding.
|3.19.08 @ 1:56PM|#
Sorry for the curious omission of the "u". I must've lost it while cleaning up my extra "whats".
Terry Michael|3.19.08 @ 2:02PM|#
Obama's address on race was so unusual because it was 19th Century style political discourse, an actual coherent, nuanced argument rather than a sound-bite vehicle masquerading as a speech. And it should make libertarians rejoice--at least those of us concerned about liberal racism. He directly confronted the leftie racialists who insist that no progress has been made since the Civil Rights Act and challenged black victimology, at the same time he acknowledged the anger in older generations, both white and black. Now, let's see if the political reporting community has enough sense to see this as something bigger than posturing to solve an immediate political problem. As a former DNC press secretary many years ago, one of the worst parts of my job was pandering to the practitioners of identity politics inside my party. As a libertarian Democrat, I see something very new in Barack Obama. He's doing something our "first black president" could have done, had he had the courage.
|3.19.08 @ 2:02PM|#
I am uncertain what all the conditions were and are that
resulted in this disparity. I assume some of the blame lies in
lingering racial injustice that created the economic disadvantage.
I also assume that some of the blame lies in the black community
itself. This cuts to the heart of a large part of the black
liberation that the reverend preaches.
But that isn't going to stop this runaway train that the senator
finds himself on. Julia Roberts said in "pretty woman". "It is
easier to believe the bad stuff."
|3.19.08 @ 2:21PM|#
"The State, that is the coldest of all cold monsters. Coldly,
also, it lies, and the lie that creeps from its mouth is this: "I,
the State, am the People."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
|3.19.08 @ 2:23PM|#
But the fact is that the schools here with the worst
academic performance are the ones with the highest percentage of
black students.
I am uncertain what all the conditions were and are that
resulted in this disparity.
How about this, brotherben: Blacks are, ON THE WHOLE, IN GENERAL,
not as smart as whites, at least not as school-smart. Hence,
predominantly black schools underperform. No amount of
hand-wringing or "investment" will change this.
Mad Max|3.19.08 @ 2:27PM|#
Elemenope,
I said Freddy wasn't a stickler for the Ten Commandments, and you
seem to agree, since, like me, you don't think Freddy saw the
Commandments as applicable to modern society (except maybe Jewish
society).
It was General Tso who wrote *Hunan, All Too Hunan.*
Elemenope|3.19.08 @ 2:27PM|#
One might say: all the means by which one has so far attempted
to make mankind moral were, through and through, immoral. (Twilight
of the Idols, The 'Improvers' of Mankind)
One pays heavily for coming to power, for power makes stupid.
(Twilight of the Idols, What the Germans Lack)
Liberal institutions cease to be liberal as soon as they are
attained: later on, there are no worse and no more thorough
injurers of freedom than liberal institutions. These same
institutions produce quite different effects while they are still
being fought for; then they really promote freedom in a powerful
way. (Twilight of the Idols, My Conception of Freedom)
All Nietzsche, all the time!
|3.19.08 @ 2:29PM|#
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to teach him to hold in
higher regard those who think alike than those who think
differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Elemenope|3.19.08 @ 2:32PM|#
I said Freddy wasn't a stickler for the Ten Commandments,
and you seem to agree, since, like me, you don't think Freddy saw
the Commandments as applicable to modern society (except maybe
Jewish society).
True 'nuff. Though, one would be hard put to argue that Nietzsche
approved of many of the actions forbidden by the Decalogue; he just
though that "thou shalt not"s were no longer an appropriate way to
approach certain ends, given especially what he thought were the
damaging side-effects of such rule-giving to human fulfillment.
Elemenope|3.19.08 @ 2:35PM|#
Rendering oneself unarmed when one had been the best-armed, out
of a height of feeling--that is the means to real peace, which must
always rest on a peace of mind...rather perish than hate and fear,
and twice rather perish than make oneself hated and feared. This
one day must become the highest maxim. (The Wanderer and his
Shadow, 284)
Verily, I have often laughed at weaklings who thought themselves
good only because they had no claws. (Zarathustra, On those who are
Sublime)
The whole of the West no longer possesses the instincts out of
which institutions grow, out of which a future grows: perhaps
nothing antagonizes the modern spirit so much. One lives for the
day, one lives very fast, one lives very irresponsibility:
precisely this is now called "freedom." (Twilight of the Idols,
Critique of Modernity)
|3.19.08 @ 2:35PM|#
"How about this, brotherben: Blacks are, ON THE WHOLE, IN
GENERAL, not as smart as whites, at least not as school-smart.
Hence, predominantly black schools underperform. No amount of
hand-wringing or "investment" will change this."
But is it genetic or society induced?
Elemenope|3.19.08 @ 2:43PM|#
That's hot.
Especially since in that famous photograph, it's the woman
carrying the whip.
Neu Mejican|3.19.08 @ 2:55PM|#
How about this, brotherben: Blacks are, ON THE WHOLE, IN
GENERAL, not as smart as whites, at least not as school-smart.
Hence, predominantly black schools underperform. No amount of
hand-wringing or "investment" will change this.
All declarative sentences.
Interesting.
Research into this topic would tend to disagree with these
assertions.
Read up on the Flynn Effect.
Most of the movement in IQ scores occurs at the bottom of the
distribution as environmental conditions improve (read
intervention, better nutrition, better schools, more opportunities,
better access to media, etc...).
Also see
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/312/5782/1900
Mad Max|3.19.08 @ 3:11PM|#
Here's a little thing Nietsche wrote after his mental breakdown.
(Apologies to Cypress Hill)
I'm on the attack
I'm Freddy Nietszche and I also sprach
Hit you in the brain pan
Thank you' Ma'am
With cool philosophy my books are crammed
Damn
Why don't y'all understand?
Yo, I can't stand your stench
Your ass will get whupped by the ubermensch
Your member is shrinking
I'm thinking
I make just as much sense when I've been drinking.
If I didn't have class
I'd birth your tragedy by kicking your ass
Bro', I got ta maintain
A philosopher like me is goin' insane
Tell my woman to strip
And I won't forget my Kool Whip.
Whip it out and have my ho kneelin'
I ain't boring like an Appolonian.
Misunderstand my views? I suggest you don't try it
I'll rip out your brain and then I'll fry it.
My shit's fat like a sumo slammin' that ass
Punks just jealous `cause they can't outwrite me
Who is the most erudite? Me!
It's very plain
A philosopher like me is goin' insane
dhex|3.19.08 @ 3:14PM|#
fred's aphorisms are a mixture of funny, true and shockingly
sexist. he does manage to stay fairly current and readable despite
the culture and language gaps.
Anyway, the more I read Freddy the less I comprehend him, but I
know he can't be portrayed as a stickler for the 10
Commandments.
well, no, but what does that have to do with anything?
other possible cookbook titles:
the soufflé science
thus cake, zarathrustra
ecce homo: how milk becomes what milk is
|3.19.08 @ 3:22PM|#
Look, despite a difference of opinion about Nietzsche's philosophy, can't we all at least agree he had a fantastic mustache?
|3.19.08 @ 3:25PM|#
History changing? I honestly could barely get through it. Like all of Obama's speeches, it was intellectually vapid gibberish. The cosmo left will fall all over themselves to find the "brilliance" in that speech, but for the everyday American all Obama accomplished was cementing in their mind that he's half black. A successful speech would have persuaded people to forget that fact.
Neu Mejican|3.19.08 @ 3:27PM|#
cementing in their mind that he's half black. A successful
speech would have persuaded people to forget that fact.
Only if you believe that that fact is a liability among the
majority of Americans.
I don't think it is for most people...some, sure, but not most.
|3.19.08 @ 3:33PM|#
Now, I would vote for Obama if he were half-human, half-Vulcan. Guess his name would then be Spobamack.
Mad Max|3.19.08 @ 3:36PM|#
How about a half-man, half-Elf who sails into the West to plead with the gods to save men and elves from the tyranny of the evil one?
|3.19.08 @ 4:03PM|#
Guess his name would then be Spobamack.
I was thinking "Tuvok Obama" is a very Vulcan sounding name.
|3.19.08 @ 4:55PM|#
Terry Michael,
I concur exactly - thank you for putting in words what it is about
Obama that appeals to me over and above any pure-play paleoliberal
policy slate.
|3.19.08 @ 5:11PM|#
I thought the speech was very good.
More importantly for Obama, I think it accomplished what he was
really aiming to do--shore up his base among affluent, white
liberals and the young'uns. Just look at how busy Chris Matthews
was fondling himself over the speech on Hardball. That
pretty much tells you all you need to know.
The 'lunchpail voter' and the hardcore union lunkhead isn't going
to vote for Obama under any circumstances, but Obama had to worry
about the effect of Rev. Wright's nastiness on the swooning
yuppies. I think he fixed that problem yesterday.
And if he gets the nomination, this will all be old news in
September and October.
|3.19.08 @ 6:59PM|#
It was a great speech, up until this part:
"This time we want to talk about the fact that the real problem is
not that someone who doesn't look like you might take your job;
it's that the corporation you work for will ship it overseas for
nothing more than a profit."
I have a couple of problems with this. First, it's incoherent.
Having your job "shipped overseas" is just another way in which
"someone who doesn't look like you" can take it. Thus disgruntled
white workers are really being asked to transfer their resentment
from one group of non-white competitors to another. Worse, they are
being told that it's naïve of them to resent people who win jobs
because of political preferences, but savvy to resent people who
win them by offering to work harder for less money.
Obama gets away with this by pointing the figure not at the poorer
workers who get the jobs, but at the demonic corporation, which is
guilty of transferring jobs from richer to poorer people "for
nothing more than a profit." Yes, making money is the only reason a
corporation hires anyone, just as making money is the only reason
you go to work for one, and maximizing the value of your money is
the only reason you purchase one corporation's products over
another's. I'm all for Obama's attempt to get beyond racial
demagoguery, but I'm concerned that he is merely replacing it with
economic demagoguery.
alan|3.19.08 @ 11:00PM|#
Excellent analysis, Chris. For Obama to be a true agent of change he not only has to transcend Jesse Jackson, which he has done, he also has to turn away from the rhetoric of Dick Gephardt. It is the later part, the intellectual immaturity of almost every Democrat except Bill Clinton that prevents me from throwing my support to Obama.
alan|3.19.08 @ 11:05PM|#
of course that should read, 'the intellectual immaturity on matters pertaining to economics'.
|3.20.08 @ 11:42AM|#
How tiresome is Obama. He is black by choice and should have little in common with the the aggrieved black masses that are so much the problem. Nothing he said or nothing he will say will prevent the country from continuing in its path of racial separateness and confrontation. He must absolutely disown such a large proportion of the black community in order to convince me that he really wants to see a color blind society that I have no reason to support him. Ther can be no "conversations" about race in America as long as all discussion is prefaced by the belief that all whites are racists. Obama has to get others such as Jackson ands Sharpton to disown their own successes at agrieving the others of their race for their to be enough room for any "conversation" that is not simply lecture. Obama is not the man for it. No politician can be.
Neu Mejican|3.20.08 @ 12:35PM|#
Robert,
Ther can be no "conversations" about race in America as long as
all discussion is prefaced by the belief that all whites are
racists.
That would be a belief held by a very small minority. Certainly not
one held by Obama.
Unless you are talking about the soft version of that belief.
The belief that everyone is racist, on some level.
A lot of people believe that, but it does not single-out whites as
particularly racist.
And, fwiw, a conversation about the difference between believing
that there exists structural or institutional racism in our society
and the belief that all whites are racist might be worth the
effort.
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