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The Friday Political Thread: Four-on-the-Floor Edition
Quote of the Week
"It is as outrageous as having Nazis march through Skokie, Ill." -
The New America Foundation's Len Nichols
on a conference call with press. He was describing Barack
Obama's attacks on Hillary Clinton's health care plan.
The Week in Brief
- John McCain won
the 5-way Florida primary by five points, demonstrating that he
was completely unbeatable and that it was time to suck it up and
make him president.
- The Democrats debated at a table
and pretended to like each other.
- The Republicans debated at a table
and didn't pretend.
- Endorsements flew in the presidential race, mostly to Obama on
the Democratic side (a pack of Kennedys, both Seattle papers, most
California papers) and to McCain on the Republican side (everyone
not actually related to the Romney brothers).
- John Edwards and Rudy Giuliani left the presidential
race, and the reason offices ran out of champagne.
- President Bush gave his final State of the Union address.
Remember?
Below the Fold
- Quin Hillyer says that
now is the time for Fred Thompson, Rick Santorum, Butch Otter and
the rest of the conservative family to stop John McCain... by
running for president themselves.
- Stanley Karnow, who knows a little about this, looks
back to the Tet Offensive (forty years ago yesterday) for
lessons about our current crises.
- Adam Reilly profiles one of
Mitt Romney's notorious flacks. If you got a resume and the last
job listed was "Mitt Romney campaign," would you hire him?
- Steve Appleford
goes inside the Obama California operation.
- John Sugg
writes about some... newsletters? Is that what they're
called?
- Peter Gelzenis
conjures up some truly pristine Romney-hatred in the Boston
Herald. "Now, he limps back to us in Massachusetts, the least
favorite of his 22 home states. Mitt comes back looking more like
Willy Loman, his trunk heavy with the samples people failed to
buy."
Politics 'n' Prog this week is given over to a band I don't
actually listen to that much, but who have a political song that
seems to appeal equally to Ron Paul voters and 70s sci-fi
fans.
|2.1.08 @ 8:43PM|#
Someone please tell me I'm imagining that huge GoogleAds banner at the top of the page.
Libertarian Librarian|2.1.08 @ 8:55PM|#
If it is a Google ad for Obama bumper stickers it is not your imagination. Google has some work to do on their context ad placement.
Libertarian Librarian|2.1.08 @ 9:04PM|#
"Quin Hillyer says that now is the time for Fred Thompson, Rick
Santorum, Butch Otter and the rest of the conservative family to
stop John McCain... by running for president themselves."
I would LOVE a brockered convention! That would be fun! As a
complete political geek I wholeheartedly endorse Quin Hillyer's
plan to stop John McCain!
Joe Allen|2.1.08 @ 9:05PM|#
Due to the media, Ron Paul may be SILENT RUNNING, but he is still the DARK STAR of this election season.
sv|2.1.08 @ 9:11PM|#
karnow's article was surprisingly brief. i wish he would
elaborate more on our current conflict(s).
also -- Ron Paul please run an ad during the Superbowl! A good one!
It's not too late! (Who am I kidding -- of course it's too
late..)
sv|2.1.08 @ 9:11PM|#
speaking of ads, that snorg tees chick is really cute and kind of scary-looking at the same time.
|2.1.08 @ 9:18PM|#
Since reason.com decided to become a television station, my
workplace is filtering it out as a "streaming video" site. Now I
have to do actual work. Thanks guys.
SV - I heard someone on the radio tonight say that Fox refused to
carry political ads during the Super Bowl.
Tom Walls|2.1.08 @ 9:18PM|#
Dream Theater is absolutely horrible.
Check out Spock's Beard - a prog rock cliche in every note of this
16-minute performance::
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LZ8ArciKdZo
Steven Horwitz|2.1.08 @ 9:20PM|#
Yeah, but unlike the wankers Dream Theatre, Spock's Beard can actually write melodies.
Nutter|2.1.08 @ 9:20PM|#
Can you turn on Javascript in the comments section so we can run our own Adsense ads?
sv|2.1.08 @ 9:24PM|#
BP -- really? that rings true actually. oh well.
i have to admit, i dig that dream theater song. it's a lot better
than the dream theater stuff some friends tried to push on me years
ago, which i thought was just corny. it's also better than this
spock's beard business, which does fit the cliche to a T.
Nephilium|2.1.08 @ 9:28PM|#
Libertarian Librarian:
Not as much as the fact that my gMail ad is almost continuously a
Huckabee 2008 ad...
Nephilium... ordained Agnostic.
SIV|2.1.08 @ 9:30PM|#
Whatever John Sugg is, he's not a libertarian.
He writes filler copy for our local free shopper/coupon/strip club
advertising tabloid.
Lifer|2.1.08 @ 9:32PM|#
article about aforementioned snorg tees girl:
http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080112/NEWS01/80112066
SIV|2.1.08 @ 9:36PM|#
I don't see any ads. Advertising content doesn't bother me but they slow down the page-loading real bad so I run Adblock Plus in firefox.
Derek|2.1.08 @ 9:43PM|#
John Suggs' article isn't even worth linking to, much less worth reading. Get over it Reason, the newsletters flap is dead and gone, and has been so for several weeks now.
Derek|2.1.08 @ 9:45PM|#
I should start a "Libertarians for Hillary Clinton" web site. I can unite all the Dondero-types who are looking for a way to jump off the sinking Giuliani/Romney "libertarian republican" ticket. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to embrace a libertarian Democrat like Hillary.
Nephilium|2.1.08 @ 9:47PM|#
Oh gods... the TSA has
started a blog...
Read angry comments before they turn off commenting...
Nephilium
Robert Hutchinson|2.1.08 @ 9:52PM|#
From Sugg's article:
the libertine Ayn Rand purists at Reason magazine
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH--
(gasp)
--AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
(I then passed out, but at least that kept me from reading any
further.)
Brandybuck|2.1.08 @ 9:56PM|#
Quin Hillyer: WTF? You've had almost a year to run a real
conservative candidate you could get behind. You were for Thompson
for a while, but as soon as he actually declared, you dumped him.
Paul is far more conservative than the remaining three
frontrunners, but your fetish for killing Muslims blinded you to
that fact. So know you'll probably get a RINO on your ballot.
John Snugg: Why did Weigel put this link in? It might have been to
keep the bash-paul-always fires burning, but the actual article is
extremely hostile to all libertarians, cosmo, paleo or otherwise.
He's just an angry guy yelping at those who are not like him.
Droll.
Eric Dondero|2.1.08 @ 10:04PM|#
Okay, all of us mainstream libertarians have decided that Romney
is a tool.The Reagan Library debate was excruciatingly painful to
watch.
But a brief shining mainstream libertarian light showed through the
fog....Mike Huckabee.
He has picked up the mantle of Federalism from Fred Thompson and
spoke Truth to Islamo-Fascist power. Mainstream,fiscal libertarians
could do worse as we saw the next night at the kodak Theater.
Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|2.1.08 @ 10:10PM|#
Eric, before you put a halo on Huckabee's head look at his actual record as governor of Arkansas. He was a big government governor through and through. He is neither libertarian nor conservative. He does not have my vote - even if he gets the nomination. If he gets the OGP nomination I am voting LP.
Click \'n\' Learn|2.1.08 @ 10:14PM|#
1. If you want Ron Paul to come close to winning something,
you're going to have to reduce the popularity of his
opponents. Blimps only go so far. So, if you want
RP to succeed, get out there and ask his opponents real
questions - the kind the MSM is afraid to ask - then
upload their responses to video sites. That will also have the
impact of striking back at the MSM by showing how bad they
are.
An excellent question you can ask McCain is here.
If you can ask that question in time, many fewer voters will vote
for an RP opponent, and many will start looking for an alternative,
and they might choose RP.
2. Reason's buddies at the SPLC have started
a new campaign. While at first glance their plans might make
libertarians uneasy, the bottom line is that their plans will help
the bottom lines of worthy companies that profit from illegal
activity. So, it's OK.
3. Mickey has (finally)
realized how bad Obama is.
4. LauraPetrie + Hillary on guitar + catchy = this week's prog
antidote.
|2.1.08 @ 10:23PM|#
The only prog I like nowadays is death metal prog. If you don't like it, it means you suck.
BakedPenguin|2.1.08 @ 10:24PM|#
PIRS, I believe that's a spoof. Dondero always posts his website
URL, and I don't think even he would ever go to Huck.
¡Ay caramba! ¡SoloLunático!
|2.1.08 @ 10:34PM|#
Gotta thank Baked Penguin for the La Villa earlier today...Dream
Theater isnt bad, but as SHorowits mentioned above...not much for
the melody.
Logan's run on the other hand...seems like we kind of headed in the
opposite direction with this year's first harvest of baby
boomers.
Wikipedia Fanatic|2.1.08 @ 10:51PM|#
"Whatever John Sugg is, he's not a libertarian."
[citation needed]
Kolohe|2.1.08 @ 11:03PM|#
Random Media Mendacity rant
So earlier this week I saw the clip of Bill Clinton saying (from
ABC news website, I think):
And maybe America, and Europe, and Japan, and Canada - the rich counties - would say, 'OK, we just have to slow down our economy and cut back our greenhouse gas emissions 'cause we have to save the planet for our grandchildren.'
And it was dutifully picked up by various right wing talk radio
(Hannity was one, IIRC) And I thought, 'wow, that's pretty bad, and
is likely to bite them in the ass in the fall. Perversely, he's
right as a matter of cause and effect, but what the heck was he
thinking?'
But then I see a clarification (on the Corner of all places) that
the rest of the quote was:
We could do that. But if we did that, you know as well as I do, China and India and Indonesia and Vietnam and Mexico and Brazil and the Ukraine, and all the other countries will never agree to stay poor to save the planet for our grandchildren.
So whomever did that first clip is being deliberately deceptive,
but nonetheless was able to spread unchecked for a while.
That is the sort of shit that should get someone fired.
|2.1.08 @ 11:18PM|#
"us mainstream libertarians"
Rittberg,
When they put you on the short bus and drove you to the regular
kid's school, they may have told you it was "mainstreaming", but
that doesn't make you "mainstream" by any ordinary definition of
the word.
BTW, maybe you and Rudy can start a vaudeville act or something. I
hear he's looking for a job these days, too.
-jcr
|2.1.08 @ 11:20PM|#
" Libertarians for Obama."
Oh, that's funny. How about "Libertarians for Sauron" while you're
at it?
-jcr
|2.1.08 @ 11:45PM|#
I was similarly amused by "the libertine Ayn Rand purists at
Reason magazine,".
You could never have read Reason before to think it was a magazine
of Ayn Rand purists. Nor could you have ever read Ayn Rand before
and call her a libertine. (Objectivism has plenty'o'faults, but
being libertine ain't one of them.)
Weigel I dunno why you even linked this guy, but I think 'libertine
Ayn Rand purists' should have been quote of the week, with or
without context.
Also I'm a little surprised Firefox says objectivism isn't a word.
Aw.
Ali|2.2.08 @ 12:08AM|#
Hello All!
I have been away for a few days and missed the "look" on Dondero's
face when Rudy announced his endorsement of McCain.
How was it? Must have been a great moment. Is there a thread where
this was discussed? I'd love to see it sometime.
So Eric, is it Romney now? He's certainly libertarian. Ask all the
people here in Massachusetts (taxasuchetts as some call it here).
Very libertarian that he thinks that the $15B Big Dig was very
important and that only government had to do it. Romney
Libertarian. LOL!
|2.2.08 @ 12:11AM|#
And on a completely unrelated note:
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_8141602
An Article about Ron Paul's Visit to Colorado...
http://www.denverpost.com/portlet/article/html/imageDisplay.jsp?contentItemRelationshipId=1811530
And if you look there... you can see me talking to Ron Paul!
|2.2.08 @ 1:10AM|#
Being completely unfamiliar with Spock's Beard, I clicked on the video and thought, at first - okay, bland and yachtrockish, but where's the prog clich....oh. OH. Eew. Didn't finish it.
Windypundit|2.2.08 @ 1:20AM|#
*** Sauron for President '08 ***
When the lesser of evils just won't do.
|2.2.08 @ 3:12AM|#
I just started Libertarians for Obama. Pass it along.
What? As one of those "hey guys, look at this goofy website with
the stupid shit pasted all over it" kind of things?
Libertarians for Obama.
That's almost as funny as Time Cube.
Bingo|2.2.08 @ 4:09AM|#
I'm still surprised Muse hasn't been featured in the prog and politics thread. They often feature apocalyptic dystopian science fiction scenarios as related to current events, c'mon Weigel!
Bingo|2.2.08 @ 4:11AM|#
also, Nephilum, the TSA blog is the most hilarious thing ever. There is no way its going to last a week without getting hacked or defaced in some way. Hands down, the most hated government agency.
|2.2.08 @ 5:19AM|#
I hate Dream Theater; a band trading on theatricality that can't act or write a decent script. All they have is 16th notes and tricky stuff with number-of-reps.
chris matthews|2.2.08 @ 5:54AM|#
Did you even read the Sugg's article before you linked it?What a
waste of perfectly good electrons.
That you'd expose your readers to that tripe when the author claims
to be a libertarian is very sad man.
Watch out libertarians!!! Suggs is going to come save us all with
government regulation, and Enron shows that the free market doesn't
work!!!
Is it too much to ask you to link to someone that's not blatantly
ignorant, or did you see the topic and feel compelled to associate
yourself with it?
If I spell the word racist in the form of linked together feces and
take a pic will you publish it and give me a byline?
DavidS|2.2.08 @ 7:31AM|#
That you'd expose your readers to that tripe when the author
claims to be a libertarian is very sad man.
Hear hear! I expect to be protected by Reason from arguments that I
disagree with. Unfortunately, many of the suggested links are quite
unsuitable. Please try harder.
John C. Randolph|2.2.08 @ 7:40AM|#
Enron shows that the free market doesn't work!!!
I get the deer-in-the-headlights look from my liberal acquaintances
every time I point out that the equities markets busted those
crooks long before any government agency figured them out.
-jcr
Cognitive Dissonant|2.2.08 @ 8:14AM|#
Newsweek's running a story on 'Obamacans'
"Some prominent Republicans have caught Obama fever."
I predict that, after the election, the name of the GOP will be
amended with a preceding "what's left of"
as in "what's left of the Republican party"
Fear mongers and violent aggressive freaks who evoke Jesus a lot
are no way to build a party.
Speaking of which, I was trapped in a hotel room for the day after
Bush's State of the Union speech. I watched Washington Journal and
was shocked (shocked!) by the callers who expressed support for our
adventures in the Middle East based solely on conforming with the
bible's endtime predictions.
|2.2.08 @ 8:33AM|#
"If I spell the word racist in the form of linked together feces
and take a pic will you publish it and give me a byline?"
That's South Park's beat, pal.
|2.2.08 @ 10:54AM|#
I get the deer-in-the-headlights look from my liberal
acquaintances every time I point out that the equities markets
busted those crooks long before any government agency figured them
out
You need to find smarter liberals, because the fact that all of the
investors money was lost before the government even began to pay
attention is exactly the problem with laissez-faire economic policy
that liberals are always pointing out.
Thank goodness there wasn't any oversight cramping Enron's style.
That would have been even worse than if the Fed had established
better mortgage-lending standards.
|2.2.08 @ 10:58AM|#
We could do that. But if we did that, you know as well as I
do, China and India and Indonesia and Vietnam and Mexico and Brazil
and the Ukraine, and all the other countries will never agree to
stay poor to save the planet for our grandchildren.
Kolohe, I, and many others, have made that exact same point here.
Incomplete and out of context quotes are among the dirtiest of
political dirty tricks.
I despise Bill Clinton as a person, but that is below the belt.
|2.2.08 @ 11:03AM|#
It's like Willi Schlamm said: "The trouble with socialism is socialism. The trouble with capitalism is capitalists."
|2.2.08 @ 11:03AM|#
All this talk about universal health care.I'm waiting for universal food,house and beer.
Dedalus|2.2.08 @ 11:04AM|#
"John Sugg writes about some... newsletters? Is that what
they're called?"
Weigel, you're such a dick.
MCW|2.2.08 @ 11:45AM|#
The wingnuts on Fox are already trying to scare
voters by talking about tax hikes. Of course the
tax hikes will only be on the super rich, but they
don't tell you that.
Why should we care if other peopels taxes are raised? Its not like
we will ever be the super rich.
|2.2.08 @ 11:55AM|#
Why should we care if other peopels taxes are raised? Its
not like we will ever be the super rich.
Why should we MCM care if other peopels taxes are
raised? With his loser attitude, it's not like
we MCM will ever be the super rich.
Our work here is done.
Neu Mejican|2.2.08 @ 12:11PM|#
*** Sauron for President '08 ***
When the lesser of evils just won't do.
Actually, Sauron was the lesser of evils...your slogan would need
to be
"Melkor for President 08...when the lesser of evils just won't
do."
For the bumper sticker it could be
"Morgoth Bauglir, the most evil man this year...Melkor 08"
http://www.glyphweb.com/ARDA/m/melkor.html
http://www.glyphweb.com/ARDA/d/darklord.html
chris matthews|2.2.08 @ 12:22PM|#
[i]Hear hear! I expect to be protected by Reason from arguments
that I disagree with. Unfortunately, many of the suggested links
are quite unsuitable. Please try harder.[/i]
Ahh, the wonderful word of relativism, where every monkey that
bangs out a couple of verbs and nouns is worthy of
attention...
I thought the motto was "free minds and free markets", instead I'm
lead to petulant blathering from an uneducated socialist.
If I wanted MSNBC, I'd be watching it.
tarran|2.2.08 @ 12:25PM|#
Notice how excited MCW is; he's been told that the government is
going to take stuff from other people and give it to him.
Let's hear it for legal plunder! Why take on the risks of burglary
when you can get the tax-man to do it for you!*
*Warning: Taxes on aimed at a wealthy minority on occasion destroy
an industry. If the central bank is inflating the money supply,
the middle class can find
itself subject to the tax as well. An unexpected war or
financial crisis can cause
a lower threshold for being hit with the tax.
|2.2.08 @ 12:28PM|#
Don't take advice on taxation from people who are
philosophically opposed to it.
They might have some useful observations, but their advice on what
to do is not based on improving the tax system, but destroying
it.
x,y|2.2.08 @ 12:29PM|#
One of the many problems with using Enron as an example of a free-market failure is that fraud will exist regardless of the economic system in place. It's more of a red herring than an indictment.
MCW|2.2.08 @ 12:34PM|#
Tarran theres a very way to fix the inflation problem write in the law that the top tax will always apply to the top 1%, regardless of their income.
|2.2.08 @ 12:35PM|#
Yeah, the difference between Paris Hilton and you? Paris
Hilton's attitude.
No, the difeerence between Bill Gates and me is attitude (and
ability).
The difference between Derek Jeter and me is attitude (and
talent).
On Paris Hilton, do you have a problem with inheritances? Or is it
just when dumbass sluts are the beneficiaries?
Anarcho Agora|2.2.08 @ 12:41PM|#
I'm philosophically opposed to taxes, here's my advice:
It's the spending that ails us...not the taxes.
We need to fix the spending problem before we can legitimately
begin wringing our collective hands over the method and frequency
of collections.
Take it...
It's good advice...
|2.2.08 @ 12:48PM|#
J sub,
I don't have a philosophical problem with inheritances, but I don't
consider it to be a sacred right for heirs, either.
An Heir Tax is one of many possible ways to raise revenue, and
should be weighed against others in a pragmatic manner. It also
happens to be, to my knowledge, the only tax that does not take
money from the people who earned it, which is a point in its
favor.
Neu Mejican|2.2.08 @ 12:50PM|#
joe,
Don't take advice on taxation from people who are
philosophically opposed to it.
An ideas worth is not really connected to the source.
|2.2.08 @ 12:55PM|#
An Heir Tax is one of many possible ways to raise revenue,
and should be weighed against others in a pragmatic
manner.
Yeah, maybe should consider something like that. We could call it
an estate tax or an inheritance tax.
It also happens to be, to my knowledge, the only tax that does
not take money from the people who earned it, which is a point in
its favor.
I'm glad to see you infer that windfall tax schemes take money from
those who earned it. Is this a breahthrough? ;-)
|2.2.08 @ 12:59PM|#
N.M.,
By all means, listen to their ideas. Heck, that's what I come
for.
But don't take their advice. That's a different matter.\
J sub D,
DEATH TAX DEATH TAX DEATH TAX DEATH TAX DEATH TAX DEATH TAX DEATH
TAX DEATH TAX DEATH TAX DE...ooh. I wet 'em!
|2.2.08 @ 1:01PM|#
but I don't consider it to be a sacred right for heirs,
either.
I rabidly agree with you there. I despise the inheritance lawsuits.
If a sane person leaves Skip or Buffy out of her will, tough luck
preppies.
Get a job
Sha na na na, sha na na na na
Nephilium|2.2.08 @ 1:02PM|#
joe:
Ehhh... don't really agree that an estate tax doesn't take money
away from the person who earned it. If I earn X dollars, why is
there a difference if I were to give it to someone before I die, or
after I die? Not to mention that right now estate taxes hurt small
business owners the most.
Of course... I'm also really irritated by taxes right now... just
filled out all my tax forms, and have the joy of seeing how much
was taken from me...
Stupid feds... thinking I'm rich.
Nephilium
|2.2.08 @ 1:04PM|#
DEATH TAX DEATH TAX DEATH TAX DEATH TAX DEATH TAX DEATH TAX
DEATH TAX DEATH TAX DEATH TAX DE...ooh. I wet 'em!
Now my advice for those who die,
Declare the pennies on your eyes.
'Cause I'm the taxman,
Yeah, I'm the taxman.
;-)
|2.2.08 @ 1:07PM|#
Do the super rich actually pay estate taxes? I would imagine they have enough money to game the system by putting it in offshore accounts and whatnot so that they don't pay a dime.
|2.2.08 @ 1:09PM|#
Nephilium,
You own nothing after you die. Your soul is departed, and your body
has all the rights of nail trimmings.
The Inheritance Tax takes money away from the heirs of the person
who earned it.
Not to mention that right now estate taxes hurt small business
owners the most. This is that "weighed in a pragmatic manner"
bit I was talking about before. As I understand it, the way rich
heirs get around this is to sell part of the business to investors.
I don't see how this hurts the business, just the heirs.
x,y|2.2.08 @ 1:18PM|#
You own nothing after you die. Your soul is departed, and your body has all the rights of nail trimmings.
True, but all you should have to do is set-up a will so that the
transfer of your $ (to whomever) becomes effective the
minute/hour/day before you die. This eliminates the objection that
you cannot own anything -- and cannot therefore transfer anyting --
after you die (an objection I agree with).
|2.2.08 @ 1:21PM|#
And we have this stupid ass exemption for "family farms". Why
not an exemption for family bars, family bowling alleys and my
favorite, family massage parlors? Why are the "family farm" so
damned sacred? It's not like the US is in any danger of losing the
ability to feed ourselves.
I'm not saying "#$@*& you, farmers", I'm saying "you ain't that
special".
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.2.08 @ 1:35PM|#
J sub D,
What exactly happens at your "Family Massage Parlor"?
Nephilium|2.2.08 @ 1:41PM|#
Warty:
Generally (at least to my understanding), the way the rich get
around an estate tax is to set up a trust while they're alive. This
avoids the capital used in setting up the fund being hit by an
estate tax.
x,y:
I'm definitely not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV... but I don't
think you can set up a will to give items in the past.
joe:
Meh... I'm not even sure if there is a soul to depart. I'll just be
an ex-Nephilium when I die. But I do find it amusing that the only
real way to avoid the estate tax is to give everything to my heir
before I die, and then beg an allowance from them. (I can see the
arguments now...) And as to how it can hurt a business, most people
aren't at the top of their game after a family member dies. So I
doubt they'll be able to make the best decision at that time.
Nephilium
Cheap Trick|2.2.08 @ 1:48PM|#
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rp_qMbDmB8Y
You work hard, you make money
There ain't no on in the world who can stop you
You work hard, you went hungry
Now the taxman is out to get you
You worked hard
And slaved and slaved for years
Break your back sweat a lot
Well, it's just not fair
He hates you, he loves money
And he'll steal your shit and think that it's funny
|2.2.08 @ 1:49PM|#
What exactly happens at your "Family Massage
Parlor"?
The sons do maintenance and security. The daughters do the books
and "customer service".
Our motto, "Let us lend you a hand".
VM|2.2.08 @ 1:51PM|#
But I do find it amusing that the only real way to avoid the
estate tax is to give everything to my heir before I die, and then
beg an allowance from them.
nah - that didn't work out too well for Mr. Lear
|2.2.08 @ 1:51PM|#
x,y,
True, but all you should have to do is set-up a will so that
the transfer of your $ (to whomever) becomes effective the
minute/hour/day before you die Yes, and you can set up your
business so that your employees get a paycheck at 1:22 AM every
other Friday. Is the employer's "right to pay" being intruded upon
because the employees then owe income taxes?
In case it isn't clear, I'm not saying people have no right to will
their estate to whom they choose - they do. I'm saying, the heirs
don't have a right to get that money tax-free.
I'll just be an ex-Nephilium when I die. I know you
intended that as a passing remark, but that's actually a very
poignant image. *sniff*
x,y|2.2.08 @ 1:58PM|#
Well, I am a lawyer, and I'm not sure what the law says (it probably varies from state to state). But I'm not making an argument about the law says you can and can't do. As a market anarchist, I don't think the laws are legitimate anyway. I'm just saying what should be the case.
BakedPenguin|2.2.08 @ 2:02PM|#
nah - that didn't work out too well for Mr. Lear
Indeed, Moose. For those interested in Japanese film (or film in
general), Akira Kurosawa did an excellent revision of that tale
with his Ran.
Ex Nephilim?
Would this
qualify?
Ali|2.2.08 @ 2:02PM|#
Would someone please tell me how Dondero reacted (if any) when Rudy endorsed McCain? Is there a link to a specific thread?
x,y|2.2.08 @ 2:02PM|#
Sure they have a right to get that money tax free. No transfer of money -- or wealth -- should ever be taxed. It doesn't matter if we're talking about employees or beneficiaries under a will.
x,y|2.2.08 @ 2:03PM|#
Ali,
I believe he ignored it. As he does every time someone points out
an inconvenient fact.
BakedPenguin|2.2.08 @ 2:11PM|#
Ali, he actually gloated that Giuliani got 13% or whatever, while Paul got 3%. Then he retconned himself to say that he always kinda liked Romney, too, and that 101 Famous Libertarians you never heard of also had mad man-crushes on Massachusetts Mor-bot Mitt.
Ali|2.2.08 @ 2:12PM|#
x,y:
Yeah, I would not be surprised. Is he now full throttle behind
Mitt? Cool, it would be priceless to see him loose that contest,
too.
Eric, if you're reading these comments now, it is not that I do not
like you (though you do get on my nerves, and almost always
disagree with you on like everything), it is just that the joy of
seeing your arguments go down the drain, give me pleasure.
aguyinohio|2.2.08 @ 2:24PM|#
The fun part of the Suggs article was how he was verbally
gang-raped in the ass by all the people that commented on the
article.
That's what I love about the internet - idiots are not
tolerated.
|2.2.08 @ 2:33PM|#
For those here arguing in favor of the Death Tax, basically
you're saying that it is a good idea to:
1) Make death a taxable offense.
2) Give a large tax bill to grieving children suffering through one
of the most traumatic moments in their life.
3) Apply the tax to those naive enough about finance to not give
their estate away to their children before they die, rather than
after, or set up generation-skipping trusts, or otherwise employ
tax attorneys to find ways around this repugnant confiscation of
wealth by an avaricious government.
I understand the POV of those who find all this acceptable and or
even think it's a great idea. I can even accept that some good
people may not have thought it through and realized the
implications of supporting this tax. It's the people who've had
this explained to them and yet gleefully support it, and gloat over
the chance to stick it to grieving, crying children whose parent
has just died, and consider it one of the best taxes ever, that I
consider reprehensible ghouls and avaricious thieves to be
avoided.
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.2.08 @ 2:36PM|#
Ali:
Would someone please tell me how Dondero reacted (if any) when Rudy endorsed McCain? Is there a link to a specific thread?
As I recall he spent most of those few threads talking about either
how great Romney was or arguing against no one that Paul's percent
of the vote was very small. If anyone mentioned any past statements
or difficulties libertarians might have with any of his preferred
candidates, he fell back on his "you don't use your real name so I
won't respond" dodge. This was even to Cesar, who apparently does
use his real name, both as a handle and as his email address.
Of course, I can't be sure any of these posters were actually Eric
Dondero, as I think he's almost as common a handle on here for
people who want a little spice in a thread as is Edward.
aguyinohio:
Idiots - not tolerated on the internet? Are we on the same
internet?
x,y|2.2.08 @ 2:42PM|#
So I just now read the Suggs piece. This part slayed me:
Deregulation gave us Enron, the threat to the republic posed by media consolidation, the savings-and-loan disaster two decades ago, and most recently the horrendous housing-and-mortgage crisis. The libertarian assumption that unfettered business acts responsibly and for the good is illusion. We forget that government isn't the enemy; it should be an agreement among free people on efficient management of a society.
People assume Enron operated in a free market, but it didn't. It
operated in a mixed economy. If you're going to blame the failings
of a company on the environment in which it operated, the most you
can say is that a mixed economy is incapable of preventing fraud.
And as I mentioned before, even this is ridiculous. Fraud will
exist regardless of the type of economic policies implemented (or
not implemented in the case of a free market).
Next, I don't know any libertarian who thinks or assumes that
unregulated businesses act responsibly and for the (greater) good.
A more reasonable assumption is that unregulated businesses will
act in their best interests, but this also applies to regulated
businesses. So seeing as how no one is actually making this
argument or assumption, I have to assume this is nothing more than
a strawman.
Ali|2.2.08 @ 2:44PM|#
1) Make death a taxable offense.
So wouldn't the death tax be an incentive for medical science?
MCW|2.2.08 @ 2:47PM|#
Why can't we tax people who make over $1 million at 50%? The rich will still make at least $500,000 a year and isn't that plenty to live on anyway? I'm so sick of whining of the rich. If you can't live on that kind of money reduce your standard of living, its not like your going to starve.
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.2.08 @ 2:55PM|#
We might also tax bold text. Or perhaps even italics.
x,y|2.2.08 @ 2:56PM|#
Why can't we tax people who make over $1 million at 50%?
We (the state acting through its elected officials) can and often
do. If you aggregate taxes paid at all levels (federal, state, and
local income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, etc.), people
often remit more than 50 percent of their income to all levels of
government.
The rich will still make at least $500,000 a year and isn't that plenty to live on anyway?...If you can't live on that kind of money reduce your standard of living, its not like your going to starve.
What gives you the right to make decisions for other people?
I'm so sick of whining of the rich.
This is rich coming from a first-class whiner.
|2.2.08 @ 3:07PM|#
prolfeed has the same "argument" for every issue: use the most
inflammatory language he can come up without contribuing any
intellectual content at all.
You forgot the part about stomping on kittens.
|2.2.08 @ 3:07PM|#
gloat over the chance to stick it to grieving, crying
children
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!
|2.2.08 @ 3:10PM|#
What gives you the right to make decisions for other
people?
You are making decisions for other people, and deciding what they
can get by with, just as much when you close down a program they
use as when you tax them.
BakedPenguin|2.2.08 @ 3:10PM|#
You forgot the part about stomping on kittens.
IM IN UR EST8, RIPPIN OFF UR BEQWEST **splat!**
|2.2.08 @ 3:14PM|#
Mew, mew, I just want to say good-bye to daddy one last time,
please, just...SPLAT!!!
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!
Sincerely,
Everybody who disagrees with prolefeed about politics
BakedPenguin|2.2.08 @ 3:16PM|#
gloat over the chance to stick it to grieving, crying children...
prolefeed, I'm a lot closer to your position than joe's on this
matter, but I can't pass up the chance to link to this.
x,y|2.2.08 @ 3:19PM|#
joe, I think you're confusing making decisions for other people with allowing them to do as they please. It's the latter I advocate (which can only be twisted into "making a decision for someone by letting them do as they please" by a disingenuous spinmeister).
|2.2.08 @ 3:22PM|#
Nope, I'm not confused at all. Or spinning. Or being
dishonest.
You're simply attaching a moral value to one method of reducing
people's choices, and a lower moral value to another.
Believe it or not, some people actually recognize that there are
other concepts worthy of consideration than whether something
involves an activist government. Like, what actually happens in
people's lives.
x,y|2.2.08 @ 3:41PM|#
If you're not confusing the two concepts, joe, then would you care to explain how someone will make decisions for another in a market anarchist society? The underlying distinction is that the decisions imposed on others now are backed up by the coercive force of the state. In a market anarchist society, this is only possible if you're willing to behave like a government. Seeing as how I'm not, how would I possibly be making decisions for other people?
Eric Dondero|2.2.08 @ 4:20PM|#
Please note someone is posting under my name above. I did not post anything about Huckabee. That's someone posting under my name.
|2.2.08 @ 4:22PM|#
You know Dondi, I frequently badmouth you, but this shit of
people posting under your name has got to stop. It's
bullshit.
And I gotta admit, you're right on McCain. Romney is a much better
choice for libertarians.
|2.2.08 @ 4:23PM|#
Derek, I'm with you on McCain. Romney is not the greatest, but
at least he's got a generally Pro-Business record.
Now with Ron Paul tanking everywhere, we libertarians need to
seriously think about getting behind Romney.
|2.2.08 @ 4:24PM|#
Yeah, Ron Paul has tanked. I was very dissapointed in his
Florida showing. 3%? Geez, I was expecting more like 10%. At least
that's what his campaign was leading us to believe.
He should drop out now, to save the libertarian movement the
embarrassment.
|2.2.08 @ 4:26PM|#
Well Dondero, you're guy Giuliani didn't make it. But I can
understand why you'd go with Romney. He's pretty good on tax
issues. He's generally a fiscal conservative. And he's centrist on
social matters.
I hope your guy Romney beats McCain. We need to save the US from
Obama and his Nation of Islam buddies. And McCain is too boring to
beat Obama.
Elemenope|2.2.08 @ 4:29PM|#
It's the people who've had this explained to them and yet
gleefully support it, and gloat over the chance to stick it to
grieving, crying children whose parent has just died, and consider
it one of the best taxes ever, that I consider reprehensible ghouls
and avaricious thieves to be avoided.
Oh. My. God. Someone actually employed a "but, think of the
CHILDREN!" argument here.
I thought a Libertarian-leaning site would at least be free of
that crap.
p.s. Count me amongst the "reprehensible ghouls". Dead people need
no money, and the very few people who would be affected by this tax
(you know, those who would have inherited fifty million
dollars or so) will have only twenty-five million to soothe their
moment of pain, if we had a reasonable 50% rate on fortunes that
approach ungodly large status. I surely don't weep for them;
they'll be fine with the half of a fortune they didn't
earn that they do get to keep.
|2.2.08 @ 4:31PM|#
Posting under somebody elses name (impersonating) is pretty classless. Jokes are OK, e.g. Dondero's mother/alter ego, but just impersonating another poster is chickenshit.
Ali|2.2.08 @ 4:36PM|#
J sub D-
Thanks my friend. I am glad to see that people are able to see the
(hehe) stylistic difference between me and impostors. That was a
strange impersonation, though. hmm!
|2.2.08 @ 4:38PM|#
LMNOP, how about 0% up to 25 million (each beneficiary) 50% above 25 million, adjusted annually for inflation. I can live with that. That way, my 1 million family massage parlor business wouldn't have to be sold to Topless Manipulation® Inc. when I die. And no exceptions for farms!
|2.2.08 @ 4:47PM|#
x,y,
By eliminating choices that people have under a liberal democratic
society - mainly choices that poorer and weaker people have because
of the commitment of resources to providing them with those choices
- reform our society into an anarcho-capitalist one would be
deciding for them that they will not be going to the doctor, not be
living in that apartment, or not be sending their kid to
school.
You say "I'm not making choices for other people," as if there is
some great moral distinction between leaving them with no choices
and telling them they have to pick A when B is also available. It's
Pilate-like in its formalist denial of responsibility.
|2.2.08 @ 4:50PM|#
Donderrroooooo,
I think everybody figured that out. At least I did, as soon as I
saw the comment.
Big-J Joe, did you actually, really score the "Joe@hotmail.com"
account? That is so cool if you did.
|2.2.08 @ 4:58PM|#
Hey, check this out:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2/2/132238/0494/147/448344
The zip code from which the largest amoung of Ron Paul donations
comes is Fairfield, Iowa.
Honor system: what's in Fairfield, Iowa that makes this an
interesting story? Anyone?
VM|2.2.08 @ 5:03PM|#
what's in Fairfield, Iowa that makes this an interesting
story? Anyone?
the county fair?
[ducks]
*googled. oooh... Makes sense, sorta...*
|2.2.08 @ 5:07PM|#
Honor system, I was clueless. Browsed the link. Funny as hell. Politics makes strange bedfellows, indeed.
Elemenope|2.2.08 @ 5:13PM|#
LMNOP, how about 0% up to 25 million (each beneficiary) 50%
above 25 million, adjusted annually for inflation. I can live with
that. That way, my 1 million family massage parlor business
wouldn't have to be sold to Topless Manipulation® Inc. when I die.
And no exceptions for farms!
I dig it.
|2.2.08 @ 5:16PM|#
Tax inheritances like income, except add another zero at the end of each bracket, and give people 5 years to pay.
alisa|2.2.08 @ 5:33PM|#
The inheritance tax debate sometimes winds up sounding like a
class war, and that's not very interesting.
Here's a thought: taxing inheritance, like taxing gifts over a
certain value, is an additional tax over and above the income tax
on the money at the time it was earned. This is an incentive not to
give gifts or inheritances; instead, people are motivated to spend
more, or to give more to charity.
If you accept that different activities can be taxed at different
rates (which I realize not everybody does) then there's nothing
wrong with it in principle. The relevant question is, are those
desirable incentives? Given our low savings rate right now, I don't
think we should be telling people to burn up all their cash before
they die.
Elemenope|2.2.08 @ 5:41PM|#
alisa --
The purported (and I'd say, accurately described) target of a
progressive inheritance tax are estates so large that it is
difficult to "unload" it all on consumption spending.
And, if they have estates that size to begin with, I don't think
insufficient savings was their problem.
|2.2.08 @ 5:43PM|#
Open thread claim! If you think your city has problems ...
I'm aware that big city politics are generally awash in cronyism,
nepotism and self serving actions.
Here in Detroit, we can compete with the best (worst?) America
has to offer.
But Milton -- Kilpatrick's choice to replace Christine Beatty,
who resigned as chief of staff Monday in the wake of a scandal --
comes to the job with his own set of problems. He and his wife
filed for bankruptcy in 2006, overcome by delinquent property
taxes, parking tickets, credit card and mortgage debts and money
owed for car leases and a health club membership.
One of Milton's first orders of business as chief of staff Tuesday
was to pay $9,418 in delinquent 2005 and 2006 property taxes to the
Wayne County Treasurer's Office, according to a receipt he faxed to
the Free Press. He declined to discuss his financial
problems.
Letters to the editor at the Detroit News.
I was starting to get positive about our mayor last year. Now I
feel like a chump.
Why do I stay? Why do I hope? Why do I continue to care?
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.2.08 @ 5:45PM|#
joe:
Tax inheritances like income, except add another zero at the end of each bracket, and give people 5 years to pay.
This is just hyperbole, right? These people would have to have a
pretty high annual return on their investments to avoid nonpayment
penalties after 5 years - roughly 24% annually or so just to break
even, assuming a 30% income tax rate. Taxing someone on ten times
the money they have is a bit much. Unless that's not where you
meant that we should add the zero.
|2.2.08 @ 5:50PM|#
Another Dondildo flame war just erupted here.
The first sentence of his first post -
I've yet to meet a Military guy, active duty or Veteran, who is
opposed to the War in Iraq. is a bald faced lie.
This is downright sad. I don't revel in other poeple's mental
problems. Pathetic and sad.
|2.2.08 @ 6:00PM|#
alisa,
Here's a thought: taxing inheritance, like taxing gifts over a
certain value, is an additional tax over and above the income tax
on the money at the time it was earned.
It's still a tax on levied when the person paying the tax receives
money from a different source. In that way, it's less of a double
tax than the property tax.
|2.2.08 @ 6:04PM|#
Someone,
I meant, add the zero at the end of the numbers at the different
income tax brackets. The 33% rate kicks in at 700-something
thousand, not seventy-something.
And it's not so much 'hyperbole' as blather. So there's that.
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.2.08 @ 6:07PM|#
joe, Oh OK. I misunderstood. I thought you meant to add the zero not to find the rate, but the tax.
|2.2.08 @ 6:09PM|#
Doth mine eyes deceive me, or did Dondero post under my crappy nonsensical handle? Or wait, maybe someone spoofed him spoofing me...oh man, I need a drink.
|2.2.08 @ 6:18PM|#
Another Dondildo flame war just erupted here.
Our friend Eric may be going insane. From that thread:
Just ignore Tim. He's one of those Al Qaeda boys, like Adam
Ghadan. He'll defend the Islamo-Fascists, but you'll never catch
him defending his own country.
Typical Commie Islamo-Nazi.
Commie Islamo-Nazis? Damn. Even McBain would have trouble handling
those dudes.
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.2.08 @ 6:18PM|#
Warty,
Yeah I saw that too. I couldn't figure it out, but hey, look on the
bright side - if they're spoofing you even secondhand I guess
you're famous.
How is life - now that you're snorting cocaine off supermodels' (or
hotel heiresses') backs?
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.2.08 @ 6:20PM|#
The Commie-Islamo-Nazi-Ninjas my grandpa fought were tougher.
Ali|2.2.08 @ 6:21PM|#
Ron Paul is going to be on MTV any moment now for a "debate" in which Obama, Clinton, Huck and Paul only participate in.
BakedPenguin|2.2.08 @ 6:24PM|#
Our friend Eric may be going insane.
...may be going...? Check your verb tense, Warty.
Commie Islamo-Nazis?
Rainer Wolfcastle: This is McBain. Under attack by commie
nazis...
BakedPenguin|2.2.08 @ 6:28PM|#
Ali, since you've been slacking at posting here @ H&R the past few days, I nominate you to live blog the Mtv debate.
|2.2.08 @ 6:28PM|#
That doesn't make sense. I'm not even close enough to being
interesting enough to be spoofed.
How is life - now that you're snorting cocaine off supermodels'
(or hotel heiresses') backs?
Nicotine,
valium, vicodin, marijuana, ecstasy and
alcohol...c-c-c-c-cocaine.
alisa|2.2.08 @ 6:31PM|#
Joe:
I don't object to double taxes in general. But if you want to tax
an activity, you'd better make sure you want less of that
activity.
Elemenope:
Granted, the people who have at least $625,000 to give to their
children are a minority. But when you say "I don't think
insufficient savings was their problem," you seem to be assuming
that an estate tax won't be a disincentive for the rich to
save.
But it does matter: every $1 of reduction in inheritance transfers
is associated with a $39 in the long-run amount of capital in the
economy. Estate taxes also discourage people from starting their
own businesses -- particularly for blacks and other minorities, who
are more likely to be self-employed if their parents were.
There's a lot of data here
. Granted, it's political (it's a congressional committee's report)
but most of the stuff there seems reasonable.
Ali|2.2.08 @ 6:49PM|#
Ali, since you've been slacking at posting here @ H&R
the past few days, I nominate you to live blog the Mtv
debate.
Haha... well, only briefly.
- Asked abot Darfur, and Paul said (with lots of justification),
that intervention does not work.
- What would you have done after 9-11? Says go to get OBL, but not
nation build afghanistan, or build oil and gas pipes, etc. Give
money to Musharaf, who now we undermine.
- A question about protecting young women from expensive
anti-pregnancy (is that what they call them?) medications. Give an
economic answer and also says that gov+private corporations, one
gets high costs and poor quality health care for all.
- A question about why young people support dems more than repubs.
Paul says it is because of Iraq the young hate the repubs.
Recommends that the questioner attend one of his rallies to see how
many young people there are, and the reasons they support
him.
- Iran + Russia extort other countries with their oil, what will
you do about that? Paul says, let the market do its thing. No war.
Best way get off fossil fuel, is not to let government determine
course (e.g., ethanol), mentions hemp as a source of ethanol, but
essentially get out of the way and let private property protect the
environment, while the market determines the best sources of
energy. Emphasizes private property and the environment.
- Question: What is your message to undecided voters? "If you are
unhappy about status quo, I offer a significant change based on the
constitution. Very low taxes, very low spending, entirely foreign
policy, strong national defense, economy, abolish federal reserve.
Individualism."
- What would you do on foreign policy towards other nations, other
than Iraq and Afghanistan? "Noninterventionism, diplomacy. Talk to
Iranians, no navy on their border or nuclear first strike. Do not
intervene in others' business. Bring troops hope, esp. in Korea,
Japan, Europe. Empire coming to end. Economy is the beginning of
the fall of an empire."
- Myspace poll: 73% support paul on foreign policy.
- Q: Are you dropping out because of trailing behind the others?
Paul: It is very early. Wait until Tuesday. The campaign is a lot
more than about Ron Paul. I will keep going until money shores up.
I am one in 4 after being 11. We're holding in there. As long as
supporters keep supporting I'll be in it. We're up for a big thing
that only starts with this elections. I do not want to run your
life or your money. The young people in the studio love the
answer.
- Why should people vote for you? Paul: I challenge status quo. I
am the only one who discusses fiscal policy. No inflation. No wars.
People want to and should assume total responsibility of their
lives. Restore confidence in freedom and constitution.
Elemenope|2.2.08 @ 6:59PM|#
alisa --
Interesting, if horribly twisted, report. It contradicts itself a
few times on the assumptions (i.e. "death taxes" are apparently
unsuccessful at raising revenue, and yet they are used historically
and effectively for emergency revenue collection during
wartime...hence it does work at raising revenue). Mostly,
my problem with the report is that it is a caricature of a useful
inheritance tax system--a strawman--and a properly implemented
system would avoid nearly all of the problems outlined in the
report (in essence, the inheritance tax idea is sound, even if some
implementations have been flawed).
I dig a J sub D style tax over a joe style tax, only because I do
believe that the floor for the tax should be higher than what joe
has been talking about (though perhaps not as high as J sub D's 25
mil per beneficiary; I think ten mil indexed for inflation annually
should be more than adequate).
With such a tax, I don't see a conceivable impact on small business
or general savings patterns being much of a concern. And the idea
that a dollar taxed is a dollar (or several) forever destroyed from
the economy is a little weird; the government spends money too, and
when it does it is usually into the private market, either
immediately or eventually. Once in private hands, those dollars
will undoubtedly be invested at the same rate all their untaxed
brothers were.
Eric Dondero|2.2.08 @ 7:09PM|#
Hey Paul fanatics. Your boy Ron just hired an Israel Hater from
the Huffington Post as a top foreign policy Advisor.
LGF and LoneStarTimes are both reporting that Philip Geraldi has
joined the Paul team. Geraldi is a known Israel hater who believes
that AIPAC controls American politicians, and has said that
American soldiers are "dying for Israel."
BakedPenguin|2.2.08 @ 7:12PM|#
thx, Ali. I was just giving you a hard time. Nobody who's not
getting paid should have to watch that (unless you want to).
As far as the tax is concerned, if it's an inheritance tax,
shouldn't it be taxed per recipient rather than per decedent?
Geraldi ...has said that American soldiers are "dying for Israel."
What a silly thing to say. Everyone knows they're dying for Exxon,
Blackwater and Halliburton.
Ali|2.2.08 @ 7:24PM|#
hey, awik, how's Rudy's campaign going?
The only libertarian running for president is out. How sad. There
isn't anyone out there to replace him.
Do you guys think Mitt would do?
Can someone make the case for Mitt? Whether he's libertarian or
not?
Ali|2.2.08 @ 7:25PM|#
thx, Ali. I was just giving you a hard time. Nobody who's
not getting paid should have to watch that (unless you want
to).
I wasn't sure, so I did it anyways.
Anarcho Agora|2.2.08 @ 8:03PM|#
Thanks for doing it.
I tuned in late...ended up watching most of Clinton's turn before
figuring out it was over and I was late for the Paul.
Derek|2.2.08 @ 9:07PM|#
Wow, Dondero has really gone off the deep end. He sounds like a psychotic madman over at that other blog, the way he's threatening Gordon.
|2.2.08 @ 9:10PM|#
Dude, I used to read Giraldi in American Conservative.
I used to think his "intelligence insights" were crap.
But as to his "Israel hatred" it's the usual thing where anyone who
criticizes any government of Israel is a "hater." Bullshit...I
currently think Africa is full of corrupt governments...Does that
make me a racist?
This may be impolitic, but for a long time I have thought about the
following:
1. People say Donderdo's real name is Rittberg, which sounds jewish
to me (I cold be wrong I submit)
2. Some Jewish people feel an unreasonable sentimental attachment
to ANY government policy of Israel's
3. Ron Paul does not share number 2
4. Donderdo, who used to work for RP, now hate him with an almost
unexplainable passion...
That makes me think Dondy got mad at RP over not being sufficiently
boot-licking to Likudian fantasies...
Eric Dondero|2.2.08 @ 9:10PM|#
Damn right I've "gone off the deep end." I'll do whatever it
takes to protect the dignity and honor of our Brave United States
Armed Forces currently deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq, against
all those who threaten them.
What's disgusting is individuals like you "Derek" don't have the
decency to defend their honor, as well.
Let me take a guess "Derek" ya never served a day of your life in
the Armed Forces, right?
Just a guess.
Eric Dondero|2.2.08 @ 9:13PM|#
Yup, guilty as charged. My Mother is Jewish. (Father
Italian).
So you going to advocate that I get carted off to the gas chambers
"Mr. Nice Guy"?
Kind of fits doesn't it. I mean Don Black, David Macko, David Duke
and other Ron Paulists advocate "getting rid of the Jews." How's it
feel to be in that sort of company?
Eric Dondero|2.2.08 @ 9:15PM|#
Do I think Israel was a good idea?
What kind of question is that? Of course, Israel was a good idea.
I'm hopeful that the Israelis can live in peace with the West Bank
Palestianians. There's virtually no hope for Hamas controlled Gaza.
But the Palestinians should be given virtually all of their
territory back.
Eric Dondero|2.2.08 @ 9:17PM|#
How sad, the Nation's "only libertarian Presidential candidate"
ended up with 3% in Florida. That was 5 times less than Giuliani
and 11 times less than Mitt Romney.
How very sad.
But don't worry. The Paul fanatics will find a way to spin it as a
"victory." Or at least they'll say that "Florida was stolen from
Ron Paul... We have evidence of massive voter fraud..."
So the sharade will continue...
Eric Dondero|2.2.08 @ 9:18PM|#
Hey Al, do you think the United States was a good idea?
How about the United Kingdom?
France?
The United Arab Emerites?
|2.2.08 @ 9:25PM|#
Dondy-Noone is advocating you be carted off to any gas chambers.
In fact, in case you've forgotten, it was the my ancestors (U.S.
residents in the 1940's) and their ilk who saved, at great personal
expense, European Jews from the gas chambers. btw-You're
welcome.
I thought I smelled the irrationality usually tied to Israel among
many Jews in your RP hatred...It's understandable considering what
your people went through, but don't expect others to buy into
it!
"But the Palestinians should be given virtually all of their
territory back." Uhh, a lot of that is, er, Israel...
|2.2.08 @ 9:26PM|#
I dunno what RP's stance is on Cuba, but I expect many Cuban Americans would hate him if he were for lifting the embargo, even if they worked for him for a while...
|2.2.08 @ 9:29PM|#
"I mean Don Black, David Macko, David Duke and other Ron
Paulists advocate "getting rid of the Jews."
Er, I'm not, nor have ever, been a RP supporter...Everyone regular
knows that I should think...I respect RP for presenting a coherent
and principled stance, but it's not the stance I would choose and
I've said so here...Try again...
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.2.08 @ 9:40PM|#
Warty,
A meltdown in comparison to what? His usual measured, reasoned
tone?
I'm not sure anyone has ever seen him in a condition other than
meltdown. If someone has a link to some other behavior, please, let
me know.
...or just give me an ignore key.
Eric Dondero|2.2.08 @ 9:43PM|#
Whoopsie Daisy! Looks like Ron Paul slipped yet again. This time
in Maine. This is a State he targetted. And yesterday the LA Times
and AP led readers to believe that Paul "Could win the
State."
Well, turns out Mitt Romney crushed Paul. Near final results:
Mitt Romney - 52%
John McCain - 22%
Ron Paul - 19%
(Huckabee and Other split the rest.)
|2.2.08 @ 9:43PM|#
This is way crazier than he normally is, Someone. It reminds me why I hide behind a stupid nonsensical internet handle like a pussy-boy, to paraphrase He Who Shall Remain Nameless.
|2.2.08 @ 9:45PM|#
Eric-Israel currently recieves more foriegn aid from the U.S.
than any other nation. Given that such foriegn aid is taken from
taxpayers by coercion, do you support it, or should we immediately
cut off all aid to Israel?
This will go a long way to figuring if you are a libertarian or an
Israel supporter (the two often being mutually exclusive).
Eric Dondero|2.2.08 @ 9:45PM|#
Really Mr. Nice Guy. And my Ancestors? They didn't count?
My Jewish and Italian ancestors arrived on the boats at Ellis
Island in the 1880s.
But I guess you don't think any of those American "Jews" or "nasty
Dagos" had anything to do with liberating Europe from the Nazis
huh?
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.2.08 @ 9:47PM|#
Warty,
Maybe he's just drunk.
I get drunk and post sometimes too. Usually it's when I post late
at night. I don't think I pump out quite this much Wattage of crazy
or hate, though.
Of course, I'm usually a happy drunk.
|2.2.08 @ 9:50PM|#
I just looked at the state by state polls on Politico...Don't
look good for Romney (thank Joseph Smith).
I've said it a million times, if someone likes RP's views, why
would his vote counts in a primary matter to anyone? In fact, if
they matter, they shoudl matter the opposite of what Dondi thinks:
the more votes he gets the more of a message it sends to the
ultimate nominee to take his ideas seriously...
|2.2.08 @ 9:51PM|#
When I'm drunk, I just make out with fat chicks. Posting crazy, belligerent things on the internet would be way more embarrassing.
|2.2.08 @ 9:54PM|#
Dondi
They may have a lot to do with liberating Europe, like my Irish and
German ancestors did. Good for all of them.
I know my anscestors fought in WWII, and so I know their efforts
helped save many a Jew, and many others, from a horrible fate...So
don't go accusing me of "supporting gas chambers" just because I
point out the very probable connection between you being Jewish and
your hate for Ron Paul, who has taken the (unforgivable!) position
that our foriegn policy may be too pro-Israel...
I'd like you to answer my question @ 9:45
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.2.08 @ 9:56PM|#
There's absolutely no reason to vote if your goal is to
influence the outcome of an election. One vote is statistically
insignificant, particularly in these national contests. Even if one
finds a good candidate (which is rare), helping them win won't be
accomplished by voting.
There may be plenty of reasons to vote. Voicing one's moral
outrage, upholding tradition, or making a joke would certainly be
reasons I could imagine someone using to justify wasting their time
at the polls. However, electing a candidate is not one of the
things a single vote can accomplish.
|2.2.08 @ 9:57PM|#
"(Father Italian)."
Jesus Christ! Dondi has pointed out many times the affinty for
muslims and facism, but holy cripes, the guy belongs to the ethnic
group MOST responsible for facism!!! Concern....
|2.2.08 @ 9:58PM|#
For some reason, I thought the Hittites were responsible for fascism. It might just be because I've never met a decent Hittite.
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.2.08 @ 9:59PM|#
Even when I'm drunk, I lack the self-confidence to hit on fat
chicks. I may tend to be a happy drunk but I'm not a very confident
drunk.
OK, enough embarrassing personal revelations.
|2.2.08 @ 10:00PM|#
"There's absolutely no reason to vote if your goal is to
influence the outcome of an election. One vote is statistically
insignificant, particularly in these national contests. Even if one
finds a good candidate (which is rare), helping them win won't be
accomplished by voting."
I don't understand this...If it means one shoud do MORE than just
vote, then yeah...But voting is PART of what you can do for your
candidate...I mean, in the end, he needs votes above all
else...
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.2.08 @ 10:00PM|#
Chris Potter,
I know the Hittites prefer Fascism in Civilization III.
And yes, we have yet more proof of how cool I am.
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.2.08 @ 10:04PM|#
MNG,
You can only impact the results of a campaign by providing enough
votes to swing the result from loss to victory. Your one vote only
makes a difference if that's how close the election is.
If you can convince enough people to vote your way to actually
change an outcome, sure, you've done something. But even in that
case, your own individual vote could have just as easily been not
cast or cast for your favored candidate's opponent. One vote
margins of victory are almost unheard of, and in fact I think they
are completely unheard of in national contests.
|2.2.08 @ 10:06PM|#
C'mon Eric, you always claim here that you are THE libertarian
figure...
So, should the government compel taxpayers to give aid to Israel
(more money than ANY other nation, and WAY more per capita)? Was it
wrong all those years they did so? Lets have your principled
libertarian answer....
BakedPenguin|2.2.08 @ 10:06PM|#
I second Unemployaphobe's guess - he's just drunk again.
I get drunk and post sometimes too...
I'm shocked. Shocked.
...I don't think I pump out quite this much Wattage of crazy or hate, though.
Never seen anything from either category that I can remember.
There's an occasional poster here (I forget who, unfortunately) who
got a bit shirty and basically said that he didn't understand the
contempt Donderroooo!! gets around here. I suspect he's never read
one of these threads.
It reminds me why I hide behind a stupid nonsensical internet handle like a pussy-boy...
The fact that he doesn't get that he (and others like him) is the
reason many desire anonymity I find rather amusing.
When I'm drunk, I just make out with fat chicks.
Shit. I do that stone cold sober.
Eric Dondero|2.2.08 @ 10:22PM|#
Ron Paul's dropping. With 62% of the Maine precincts now in,
he's gone down to 18.7%.
Politico.com is calling the State for Romney, and is saying he will
get 21 delegate votes, 5 more than New Hampshire.
Eric Dondero|2.2.08 @ 10:24PM|#
Foreign Aid is not the issue. But since you've asked, NO I do not support foreign aid for Israel or any other Nations, with the exception of Iraq, and Afghanistan. And even there, they need to start picking up more of the burden.
|2.2.08 @ 10:26PM|#
Since no reply, let's repeat:
'C'mon Eric, you always claim here that you are THE libertarian
figure...
So, should the government compel taxpayers to give aid to Israel
(more money than ANY other nation, and WAY more per capita)? Was it
wrong all those years they did so? Lets have your principled
libertarian answer...."
Let's imagine Dondi's answer:
"Uhh, Isreal, Uhhh, Special, Uhhh, Support Isreal no matter What,
that's the libertarian way!!!"
Eric Dondero|2.2.08 @ 10:26PM|#
Hey, why the silence here on Maine?
Only Caucus or Primary today. Big deal. Yet all Reasonoids are
strangely silent.
Where's the headlines from Matt Welch or Doherty today, "Ron Paul
wins big in Maine"?
Golly gee, guess they can't do that since...
RON PAUL GOT CRUSHED BY MITT ROMNEY 52% TO 18.7%. Hell Paul was the
only one to campaign in the State, and he couldn't even beat
McCain.
Eric Dondero|2.2.08 @ 10:27PM|#
Why you so concerned about Israel only?
We give foreign aid to some 180 nations worldwide. Interesting
you'd pick out Israel from the pack. Do I sense something else at
work here? Maybe a tad bit of Anti-Semitism?
|2.2.08 @ 10:27PM|#
Hate to interrupt the Dondero Wars, but I came across an
article by Gregg Easterbrook that attempts in part to justify
Sen. Specter's desire to subpoena NFL administrators re: Spygate II
involving the Pats' first Super Bowl win. Especially interesting to
this crowd:
Think Congress has no business investigating sports? Most NFL teams play in publicly subsidized stadiums, and NFL games are aired over public airwaves controlled by federal licenses. The licenses, among other things, prohibit any pre-arrangement or artifice in what is presented as live competition. If a Super Bowl were affected by cheating, that would be a legitimate matter of concern to Congress. Plus, the recent lesson learned via baseball and steroids was that Major League Baseball did not clean up its own house until Congress put some pressure on.
Anyone have a take on this?
|2.2.08 @ 10:27PM|#
Dondi
I'm glad you think that way. Will you join me in a joint letter to
our leaders to immediately cut off aid to Israel?
|2.2.08 @ 10:29PM|#
"Interesting you'd pick out Israel from the pack. Do I sense
something else at work here? Maybe a tad bit of
Anti-Semitism?"
Er, maybe because we give more aid to Israel than any other nation
(2nd is Egypt we give to be nice to Israel).
Your explanations are seeming more and more bankrupt Dondi..
|2.2.08 @ 10:30PM|#
Mr Dondero,
It's friggin' Saturday. They rarely have new posts up on the
weekends.
|2.2.08 @ 10:33PM|#
Eric Dondero:
Whoopsie Daisy!
Laugh while you can, monkey boy.
We're going to make sure that the volumes of really moronic, and
sometimes quite ugly, comments that you've made on these threads
will be available to be used against you should you ever choose to
run for office.
|2.2.08 @ 10:33PM|#
Dear Congressman:
I am aware that we suport man nations through the coercion of
taxpayer moneys. This is wrong. I do not support foreign aid for
Israel or any other Nations, with the exception of Iraq, and
Afghanistan. The many years we have given Israel, or any other
nation, special prominence, were wrong. I urge you in ending this
injustice,
Signed
Eric Donderdo
Ready to sign Eric?
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.2.08 @ 10:37PM|#
Chris,
The cons run by the people wanting to start or restart a sports
team are often quite despicable. Getting arenas built out of tax
funds is I think a common way of starting this sort of thing. The
local government usually buys the line about helping support local
business (which I think is questionable at best) as an excuse for
the public spending.
That said, if sports teams want to cheat more power to 'em. They
can go ahead and use steroids for all I care. The more like
pro-wrestling other sports become, the better.
Of course this is coming from a non-sports-fan, so take it with a
grain of salt. If I were as into the grand pageantry or the subtle
geometry* or whatever it is that makes George Will and his ilk love
the stuff, I might feel differently.
*paraphrased from Daniel Clowes in his excellent comics essay on
the subject. (I think the title may have been "Why I like
baseball.")
Rogue Paulistinian|2.2.08 @ 10:50PM|#
I dunno how the rest of the Ron Paul rabble's gonna perform for
this caucus gig, but I can confidently say that my precinct's
locked down. Assuming 12 voters to a delegate (8 is the norm),
we're a mortal lock for 3 of 6 delegate slots. Plus we have 2
delegate candidates who are down-with-the-Paul but are giving pre
vote speeches pitching an interest in being in on the drawing up of
the state's 2008 GOP platform
one of them's a self avowed "evangelical" (whatever that means)
who's dragging 10 church cronies in to vote for him (but only
him)... they'll probably go Huckabee in the straw poll.
I'd like this game better if it was played in the summertime.
It's kinda like getting pigs to the state fair:
the winners of precinct delegate seats go to the county convention,
there they pick delegates for the regional convention, at the
regional the headcount is winnowed down again and forwarded to the
state convention
At the state convention, they draw up the party platform and select
the delegates to be seated at the national convention in St
Paul.
The candidate numbers the media will be covering come Tuesday
night? a "Presidential preference straw poll" that counts for nada
but hype.
|2.2.08 @ 10:53PM|#
or whatever it is that makes George Will and his ilk love
the stuff
I like the violence, myself. I'm only too glad to pay extra tax on
beer so that I have the privilege of seeing the Browns get violence
done to them.
...grumble grumble fucking Art Modell grumble grumble...
|2.2.08 @ 11:10PM|#
I don't understand this...If it means one shoud do MORE than
just vote, then yeah...But voting is PART of what you can do for
your candidate...I mean, in the end, he needs votes above all
else...
We've had a handful of races in my state where the margin of
victory was under 10 votes. One candidate in particular ran three
excruciatingly close races, losing two and finally winning the last
by a squeaker. So, if you favor one of the candidates in a rematch
like that in a small-state-legislature-sized race, then your one
vote has an appreciable chance of being the deciding vote. And some
primary contests here have such absurdly low turnouts that your
vote is almost guaranteed to have a small but measurable chance of
being the decisive one.
Where MNG is confused is that he, as a "good" leftist, is thinking
in collectivist terms rather than as an individual. That is, sure,
if everyone in a certain class of individuals decided to not vote
because of this logic, it would swing an election. But, actual
individuals vote, and their personal decision almost never matters.
Thus, people who think in collectivist ways tend to be the ones who
votes elect candidates, pushing a given society based on democracy
into more and more collectivist ways, until the consequences of
that makes the society go off the rails sooner or later.
So, we're doomed to keep trying every conceivable variation of
collectivist government, until multiple catastrophically bitter
failures in the distant future finally convince people to forever
abandon democracy in favor of a system where 51% of the population
can't loot the other 49% -- say, a thoroughly minarchist government
where any legislation or appropriation requires a 90% affirmative
vote to pass, and all legislation sunsets after 5 years and must
then be reauthorized.
libertreee|2.2.08 @ 11:20PM|#
In Nevada we have more delegates for Ron Paul than the straw
poll would indicate. The Mormons who came out for Romney often did
not want to bother to become delegates.
I do not know if the same thing is true in Maine. I would have
preferred a second place or victory, obviously. But, both Romney
and McCain have strong New England connections.
The process of the caucus is only the beginning. Next comes the
county conventions.
Huckleberry will be the next to drop out, then McCain will drop
off, if not out. A Romney win in Maine points once more to a
brokered convention.
Ron Paul is raising at least a million dollars today with a goal of
8.5 for the quarter.
libertreee|2.2.08 @ 11:22PM|#
Oh yes, and Ron Paul's new Book, "Revolution, A Manifesto", coming in April, is already a best seller.
alisa|2.2.08 @ 11:39PM|#
"Mostly, my problem with the report is that it is a caricature
of a useful inheritance tax system--a strawman--and a properly
implemented system would avoid nearly all of the problems outlined
in the report."
I'll buy that. Limit the scope of the program and it'll probably be
less damaging.
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.2.08 @ 11:48PM|#
prolefeed,
As far as the actual method of appointing officials (if
there are any) I suppose elections work well enough, if they're
held often enough. I am a bit of a fan of the fictional Bismollian
method as well - they use a draft to choose their officials,
which would tend to keep away some of the disreputable types who
seek out office in a republic. (Though I guess the draft would have
to have a refusal allowance built in to keep people from being
forced to serve.) Really, I guess almost any method works
OK, as long as the officials have very little power and are easy to
remove from office.
I like your 90% requirement for a bill to pass and five year sunset
pretty well in any event. Other limitations on the size (word
count) or scope of a bill could also be worthwhile.
The Wine Commonsewer|2.2.08 @ 11:48PM|#
When I'm drunk, I just make out with fat chicks.
LOL, got dam, LOL.
The Wine Commonsewer|2.2.08 @ 11:55PM|#
RON PAUL GOT CRUSHED BY MITT ROMNEY 52% TO 18.7%.
Jesus Chrysler Eric, almost 19% amd you're whizzing on it?
WTF?
My old leftie friend Paige lives in Maine. He's on board for RP.
Voted for him several times.
He's an old time New Left radical turned RP whatever-the-hell he
is. Walks around saying: I used to be a liberal
He also drove Linda Brisby over to my house so she could write FUCK
YOU MIKE in my front lawn with salt. Still denies it, but I know it
was him.
My parents were not impressed. Still don't know why they put me on
restriction for that. Not like I had a bag of water softener salt
in the trunk.
Took a long dam time for the grass to grow back.
The Wine Commonsewer|2.2.08 @ 11:59PM|#
You do not want to go drinking with this guy, but, here is the
Kosmik Kid's forecast from two weeks ago:
Meanwhile, Thompson drops out, while Giuliani (the front runner
just 3 weeks ago!) is like a drowning man gone down twice and
hoping to be rescued off the coast of Florida (and has no money
left to buy a life raft), and Huckabee shot his wad in Iowa
(again), (and has no money left). And Rush Limbaugh hates McCain,
and so does Mark Levin, and they hate Romney only slightly less. My
prediction: Rudy Judy and Huckabee drop out, and McCain borrows
heavily to stay in. Romney, of course, is rich enough to stay in 4
more years. Romney vs. Paul is David vs. Goliath, but the stone in
the sling is the economy, stupid.
So it's Paul vs. Clinton in November. Care to bet on the outcome?
If it comes to this, RP will raise so much money from grassroots
that even McCain's law couldn't prevent him from winning the
presidency.
With this off my chest, I'll sleep well tonight.
Ali|2.3.08 @ 12:20AM|#
TWC- I really really like your analysis from two weeks ago. You were probably drunk then, though. But it seems to work so far, so I hope you are now drunk regarding your prediction re Paul vs. Clinton. I do not see it happening though.
Fluffy|2.3.08 @ 12:46AM|#
Chris Potter -
My take on Congressional involvement in sports is that the owners
are too big of fucking pussies to tell the Congress to go fuck
itself.
"Police your sport or we'll police it for you!" is a laughable and
empty threat. The Congress is going to police steroids? Give me a
fucking break. There are few more obvious steroid users in the
country than Barry Bonds and the feds still haven't laid a glove on
him after all these years.
Instead of sending George Mitchell out to conduct his inquisition
the owners should have told the feds that if they had evidence on a
player they should get fucking warrants and investigate them
themselves. And if they didn't have enough evidence to get
individual warrants against individual players they should shut the
fuck up.
The Wine Commonsewer|2.3.08 @ 12:54AM|#
Ali, flattery will get you everywhere. How-some-ever, I do not
subscribe to the Kosmik Kid theory of how things will pan out. I
just thought it was interesting. RP never had a chance, except in
comparison to the LP nominee.
Now, about that analysis from two weeks ago. Thankee. Wonder what
it was I said.
The Wine Commonsewer|2.3.08 @ 12:56AM|#
BTW, TWC is never drunk just slightly to moderately inebriated.
Fluffy|2.3.08 @ 12:56AM|#
A couple of things about this thread:
Eric, I don't want to hear about your Jewish ancestors, because on
your blog you have denied being a Jew and have claimed that Ron
Paul coerced you into dressing up and pretending to be a Jew. If
you had to pretend, you aren't a Jew, and you therefore can't
possibly have any Jewish ancestors.
Second, no one can call Maine for Romney without knowing the
identity of every state convention delegate and determining who
they are going to vote for. Unless they don't know anything about
the process in Maine and just want to make shit up. Why are you
using a source that either doesn't know how the process works or
just wants to make shit up?
The Wine Commonsewer|2.3.08 @ 12:59AM|#
Winesewer, that's a pipedream I'd like to smoke.
Me too, gotta beat the crap outta Oxycodon or anything else the
Kosmik Kid has been snorting.
[shrugs]
Warty is still the man with his "RP has gotta stop infecting me
with his horrible, horrible optimism."
The Wine Commonsewer|2.3.08 @ 1:31AM|#
Your boy Ron just hired an Israel Hater from the Huffington
Post as a top foreign policy Advisor.
I dunno about that, but he hired Don Luskin as his econ advisor.
That's a pretty big coup. Had a great piece in WSJ online last
week.
Aside from that Luskin is one of the few big players that links to
TWC. That makes the whole thing really important.
http://www.poorandstupid.com/2008_01_20_chronArchive.asp#7821097533766722843
Brandybuck|2.3.08 @ 1:40AM|#
Reading over that Third Party Watch thread, it's clear to me that Dondero has the emotional stability of a brain damaged hyena. And he's proud of it.
Elemenope|2.3.08 @ 1:40AM|#
So, we're doomed to keep trying every conceivable variation
of collectivist government, until multiple catastrophically bitter
failures in the distant future finally convince people to forever
abandon democracy in favor of a system where 51% of the population
can't loot the other 49%.
So, will these catastrophic bitter failures be before or after we
invent the perpetual motion machine, holodeck, and personal
robot?
Seriously though, it is as likely that democracies and their
damnably collectivist ways (tm) will continue to putter along for a
long, long time. I just don't see Switzerland, Norway, or Canada
collapsing under mountains of self-produced statist
crapulence.
Unless it's *invisible* crapulence. Then, who knows? You might be
right. Me, I prefer my political predictions to rest on a body of
evidence, if only slightly visible.
It is far more likely that as the ability of humans to produce
continues to rise relative to our needs, governing large numbers of
people with distributive economics will become easier, not harder.
The Libertarian dream will perhaps drown in a sea of technological
wonders, with a well fed and pampered consumer class whose every
need is provided for, and for whom freedom is just that thing that
poor people do before they become rich.
Andy|2.3.08 @ 2:32AM|#
"Eric Dondero | February 2, 2008, 9:15pm | #Do I think Israel
was a good idea?
Hey Al, do you think the United States was a good idea?
How about the United Kingdom?
France?
The United Arab Emerites?"
I don't think that any government is a good idea.
If I had to pick one from the list I'd say that the United States
of America under the Declaration of Independence and Constitution
was the "best" idea on the list, it is just a damn shame that the
government had to overstep those bounds and screw everything
up.
"Eric Dondero | February 2, 2008, 9:13pm | #
Yup, guilty as charged. My Mother is Jewish. (Father
Italian).
So you going to advocate that I get carted off to the gas chambers
"Mr. Nice Guy"?
Kind of fits doesn't it. I mean Don Black, David Macko, David Duke
and other Ron Paulists advocate 'getting rid of the Jews.' How's it
feel to be in that sort of company?"
This from a guy who advocates the mass murder of Muslims.
|2.3.08 @ 2:57AM|#
Here is a proposal: Why not just enact a tax law that identifies
the wealthy, say everybody with more than $400,000 in net worth,
and simply take everything above that amount. That will leave all
of the previously wealthy as middle-class ($400,000 net worth), and
won't impact the existing middle-class.
All of the previously wealthy will have to get a job, of course,
but considering their first-class educations at elite universities
that should not be a problem. Besides, it is morally good to do
something productive and we know how the rich, social conservatives
are so enamored with moral goodness.
Hillary or Barack will decide how to spend all of the new tax
revenue in a way that allows all Americans to participate in
prosperity. They could call the whole exercise, "the great
leveling".
|2.3.08 @ 4:11AM|#
Joe:
Now with Ron Paul tanking everywhere, we libertarians need to
seriously think about getting behind Romney.
Joe, do you consider yourself a Libertarian? I thought you were a
self-professed Democrat.
Bingo|2.3.08 @ 6:23AM|#
Yes, over-arching power to arbitrarily decide what constitutes wealth is a great idea, wayne.
|2.3.08 @ 6:27AM|#
Bingo,
Thanks. To be fair, of course, we ought to index the definition of
wealth for inflation, and there probably should be an exemption for
minorities because they have been systemically discriminated
against, hence they are owed some "catching up".
Eric Dondero|2.3.08 @ 8:34AM|#
Someone here, who uses a stupid-ass on-line name, and is too
much of a yellow bellie to post under his own name, said that
"nobody knows who won Maine."
Really?
I'll trust CNN, Politico.com and Real Clear Politics, all of whom
are reporting that Romney won overwhelmingly with 52% to McCain's
22% to Paul's 19%.
Actually, to be precise, Ron Paul ended up with 18.7%
|2.3.08 @ 8:38AM|#
"Of course the tax hikes will only be on the super rich"
That's what they said about the income tax back in 1913.
Every "soak the rich" scheme ends up as a "soak everyone" scheme,
since you have inflation constantly moving the goalposts.
-jcr
|2.3.08 @ 8:39AM|#
" too much of a yellow bellie to post under his own name"
You don't have a lot of room to gripe about that, do you
Rittberg?
-jcr
Eric Dondero|2.3.08 @ 8:41AM|#
Look, you all are obviously Reason-oids who don't ever check out
other news blogs. Just about every Blog that matters in politics,
is reporting on the Maine results this morning: RCP, Politico.com,
Newsmax, HotAir.com and even Drudge.
Doesn't matter that it's "Saturday" or even "Sunday Morning."
These Political Blogs operate 7 days a week.
And if you doubt them, just go to the Maine Governor Secretary of
State website.
The near final results are as follows:
Mitt Romney - 52%
John McCain - 22%
Ron Paul - 18.7%
Mike Huckabee - 5%
|2.3.08 @ 8:41AM|#
" simply take everything above that amount."
Yep, looting at gunpoint is pretty simple. Almost as simple as your
mind.
So, what are you going to do if the rich people return fire?
-jcr
Eric Dondero|2.3.08 @ 8:42AM|#
No, I guess I don't have much room to gripe.
Signed...
Eric Dondero Rittberg
Houston, Texas
832-896-9505
|2.3.08 @ 8:43AM|#
I want to go back to a point Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose
His Job made earlier:
Someone,
Ain't nothing wrong with the big beautiful girls. Nothing at
all.
Eric Dondero|2.3.08 @ 8:43AM|#
For the record:
"Dondero" - Father's name.
"Rittberg" - Adoptive Parents' name.
They're both interchangeable. D comes before R, so I usually use
Dondero. But am perfectly fine with Rittberg.
|2.3.08 @ 8:59AM|#
" Your boy Ron "
... is still in the race, unlike that ignoramus you were
pushing.
-jcr
|2.3.08 @ 9:01AM|#
"For the record:"
Like anyone cares.
The only reason anyone bothers responding to you is for amusement.
It's like popping bubble wrap, except that the bubble wrap provides
rather more intellectual challenge.
-jcr
|2.3.08 @ 9:13AM|#
For the record,
Below 120 pounds: too bony, don't have the energy or
enthusiasm.
120-145 pounds: getting there.
145+: bouncy-bouncy!
Ali|2.3.08 @ 9:22AM|#
TWC- I had no idea who Kosmik Kid is and thought you were referring to yourself or something. Anyhow, whoever Kosmik Kid is, I hope he's right. Drunk or not.
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.3.08 @ 9:52AM|#
joe, I don't mind a bit of weight on a girl either. Like I said, I lack confidence to engage in the pursuit of most ladies, fat or thin. When I've had a bit of luck, they've always made the first move.
|2.3.08 @ 9:55AM|#
"So, what are you going to do if the rich people return
fire?"
Jail them, isn't that what happens to tax cheats now?
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.3.08 @ 9:57AM|#
TWC, Your friend's prediction is one of the
very few cases in which I think Ron Paul might have a chance of
becoming President. Even then, I think his chances wouldn't be
good, but Hillary Clinton has some weaknesses which he could
exploit.
Of course, I think Kosmik Kid is wrong. My guess is that McCain
will be the Republican nominee, and I'd give Obama and Clinton even
odds on the Democratic nomination. If it's McCain versus Obama,
Obama wins, and if it's McCain versus Clinton, McCain wins. Just a
guess, though - I'm no politician.
Fluffy|2.3.08 @ 10:30AM|#
Dondero:
The straw poll in Maine has nothing to do with the process of
selecting delegates to go to the national convention.
Romney won the straw poll handily. That is very true.
But that is not the same as winning Maine or securing Maine's
delegates.
The delegates are selected at a state convention of people who
became state delegates at the caucus after the conclusion of the
straw poll.
Most reports from caucus sites indicate that the delegate selection
process was not competitive due to caucus-goer apathy and that just
about anyone who wanted to be a delegate got to be one.
Whose supporters do you think were the most likely to
volunteer?
Sorry to disturb you with, you know, actual information about how
the caucus process in Maine works, but until the state convention
we won't really know if Romney sweeps all before him by dint of
that big straw poll number, or if Paul's people succeeded in their
fairly brazen and open attempt to hijack the delegate process in
order to ignore the straw poll results.
But I'm sure you're the kind of person who knows this full well
already, and is merely choosing to pretend he doesn't know it for
the purposes of talking in this thread. That kind of disingenuous
behavior would be par for the course for someone who would whore
his Jewish identity to score points in this thread, but then
disclaim a Jewish identity to score points against Ron Paul [you
know, the guy who "ordered" you to lie and "pretend" to be Jewish,
lo these many years ago now] on your own blog.
SIV|2.3.08 @ 10:31AM|#
Jail them, isn't that what happens to tax cheats
now?
Not if you are the IRS' worst nightmare
BakedPenguin|2.3.08 @ 10:56AM|#
Ron Paul should have given that $500 Don Black money to Wesley Snipes's legal fund. That would have been hilarious.
|2.3.08 @ 11:05AM|#
Snipes still is going to pay more than $17M in taxes, fines, etc. See how easy it will be to just take everything above a "wealthy" limit...
|2.3.08 @ 11:09AM|#
That's what they said about the income tax back in 1913.
The Income Tax was passed by Populists and Progressives because of
the Republican Protective Tariffs and the Spanish American War
which they saw as benefitting the wealthy at the expense of the
working man.
As said above it was a tax on wealth because the word "income" was
equivelant to "profit". It was to be a tax on dividends and profits
and on some federally licensed occupations. The idea that wages
would be taxed was specifically rejected during the Congressional
debates. The Republican Taft wanted it to tax corporations which he
feared had been struck down by the Supreme Ct in Pollack.
It was specifically mentioned that a working man's labor diminished
his capital, and therefore was not income in the sense they wanted
to tax.
Of course the tax on the wealthy also started out as a very small
tax with a very large exemption so in that sense it was also a tax
only on great wealth. But it was never meant to tax wages at
all.
x,y|2.3.08 @ 11:18AM|#
RE: Congress and Spygate
Not all of the state intervention you mentioned was federal. And
even if it were, two wrongs don't make a right. The first wrong is
the state getting involved in football, for example, handing out
taxpayer money for stadiums and restricting access to "public"
airwaves. The second wrong -- more of a logical fallacy -- is
justifying further intervention on the basis of earlier
intervention.
|2.3.08 @ 11:47AM|#
Chris Potter - Re your February 2, 2008, 10:27pm post.
Anyone have a take on this?
I'll give it a shot.
Think Congress has no business investigating sports?
Yep, that's what I think.
Most NFL teams play in publicly subsidized stadiums,
Not if I had my way, besides they aren't federally funded.
and NFL games are aired over public airwaves controlled by
federal licenses.
What does that have to do with anything? The FCC lets Fear Factor,
American Idol AND Jerry Springer on the air.
The licenses, among other things, prohibit any pre-arrangement
or artifice in what is presented as live competition.
Professional wrestling, anyone?
If a Super Bowl were affected by cheating, that would be a
legitimate matter of concern to Congress.
If a Super Bowl, World Series, Stanley Cup or NBA Finals were
NOT affected by cheating, I'd probably get
religion. Damn,that is sooo stupid.
Plus, the recent lesson learned via baseball and steroids was
that Major League Baseball did not clean up its own house until
Congress put some pressure on.
I call B/S! The paying customers put pressure on, MLB was compling
in a slow bureaucratic way that the federal government is quite
familiar with. Congresscritters just jumped on the wagon to
showboat and get some free press coverage.
How is that for a response?
Eric Dondero|2.3.08 @ 11:52AM|#
I'm confused. The Ron Paul people were playing up Maine. Check
out NolanChart.com. All sorts of predictions of "Ron Paul's gonna
win Maine and show up the National Media." They banked everything
on ME.
Now you're telling me that "Maine really isn't such a big
deal"?
Does the word "convenient" have any meaning for you?
|2.3.08 @ 11:55AM|#
J sub D, Fluffy, (x,y), swdwtlhj,
I'm pretty much in agreement with you, but I'm just trying to stir
the pot.
|2.3.08 @ 12:00PM|#
I'm confused. The Ron Paul people were Eric
Dondero was playing up Maine
Rudy. Check out NolanChart
libertarianrepublican.com. All sorts of
predictions of "Ron Paul Rudy's gonna
win Maine the nomination and show up
the National Media." They He banked
everything on ME Rudy.
Now you're telling me that "Maine Rudy
dropping out with one delegate really isn't such a big
deal"?
Does the word "convenient" have any meaning for you?
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.3.08 @ 12:10PM|#
Chris, good luck stirring the pot when the master pot-stirrer-nutjob-troll is in the room already, responding to comments he is imagining that people are making.
tarran|2.3.08 @ 12:14PM|#
Chris, go easy on poor Eric.
He can't go with Ron Paul, so he's hitching his post to a guy
promoting socialized medicine and government bailouts of
uncompetitive industries.
If McCain should win the nomination, then he can switch to
supporting "fiscal cons" like Hillary Clinton, since Romney's
policy prescriptions are pretty similar to hers.
I must admit, though, watching him redefine libertarianism to mean
socialism is on one level quite entertaining.
x,y|2.3.08 @ 12:52PM|#
Since this is an open thread and it's Super Bowl Sunday, who do
you like and why?
I'll be pulling for the Pats to win outright, but I've cast my lot
with the G-Men to cover the spread. Brady and Co. have been
fantastic to watch all season, but they haven't been playing
full-throtle the last few games. The Giants, on the other hand, are
hot.
Pats 35, Giants 24.
|2.3.08 @ 12:55PM|#
Pats 31, Giants 27.
The Giants match up well against the Patriots, and they are
hot.
But the 2007-08 Patriots are the greatest team in the history of
the NFL.
|2.3.08 @ 1:05PM|#
joe,
Sweetness,
Punky QB, Fridge, Mongo, Samurai Mike, Butthead, LA Mike, Speedy
Willie, and Da Coach would beg to differ with you.
Neu Mejican|2.3.08 @ 1:18PM|#
http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10601407
Cool new technology for electric cars.
Neu Mejican|2.3.08 @ 1:25PM|#
joe | February 3, 2008, 9:13am | #
For the record,
Below 120 pounds: too bony, don't have the energy or
enthusiasm.
120-145 pounds: getting there.
145+: bouncy-bouncy!
Spock agrees with you
http://www.rmichelson.com/Artist_Pages/Nimoy/pages/MaxBeaut.htm
|2.3.08 @ 1:27PM|#
Even if the '07 Pats have a slight edge on the field, they're booooooooooring. In 20 years no one's going to remember Tom Brady's girlfriends or Bill Belichick's hoodie and no-comments in postgame press conferences, much less the even blander other 53 guys on the team. Ditka's going off on tangents in his press conferences talking about Iran-Contra and Cabbage Patch Kids, McMahon's mooning the helicopters and saying New Orleans women were all sluts during the week leading up to the Super Bowl in NO, and of course the SuperBowlShuffle, will live forever in football legend.
|2.3.08 @ 1:30PM|#
I've never cared less about a Super Bowl. I'll be doing anything other than watching it.
|2.3.08 @ 1:41PM|#
Chris, you're a Jags fan, right?
That David Garrard fella has an almost Brady-like pocket sense. The
way he just shuffles and slides to stay just out of the grasp of
the pass rush, without losing his down-the-field concentration -
that's what's made Tom Terrific an MVP.
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|2.3.08 @ 1:44PM|#
Instead of watching the Super Bowl, I'm watching Raising Arizona.
|2.3.08 @ 1:48PM|#
joe-you're wrong on the fat chicks, and the Super Bowl (hey, I
agree under 120 is often too bony, but 145+, while still great near
the lower end of that continuum, gets pretty gross pretty
fast).
Pats 28
Giants 17
|2.3.08 @ 1:53PM|#
One great thing about chunky chicks though, in my experience, is they will are more amenable to letting you put it in their butt more than skinny ones. Gotta love them for that alone actually...
|2.3.08 @ 1:54PM|#
Joe-I've been impressed with Garrad too. Where did that kid play
college ball?
Someone-Can't go wrong with the Coens...
x,y|2.3.08 @ 2:17PM|#
MNG,
Garrard went to ECU. He was on Rome is Burning this past week and
carried himself very well. I'd never heard him interviewed before
that, but it sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders --
which is critical to excelling as a QB in the NFL.
|2.3.08 @ 2:18PM|#
Since this is an open thread and it's Super Bowl Sunday, who
do you like and why?
The Pats will have it sewn up by the end of the 3rd quarter. NY
may score once or twice in the 4th to beat the spread
(Pats favored by 12-14), but if I were wagering I'd bet the
Patriots to cover. That 18-0 record is not due to luck. They are
heads and shoulders above anybody else in the NFL this season. Tom
Brady being a sixth round draft pick says something uncomplimentary
about the experts' ability to predict NFL success. This should be
his 4th Super Bowl Ring and he's just 30 years old. Plenty of time
for him to get #5 (or more?) and be all alone among starting
QBs.
Kolohe|2.3.08 @ 2:19PM|#
Garrad played at ECU.
Patriots 24 Giants 20.
135-155, but also I prefer over 5-7, being tall myself.
LMNOP-
It is far more likely that as the ability of humans to produce continues to rise relative to our needs, governing large numbers of people with distributive economics will become easier, not harder. The Libertarian dream will perhaps drown in a sea of technological wonders, with a well fed and pampered consumer class whose every need is provided for, and for whom freedom is just that thing that poor people do before they become rich.
Interesting observation. This is definitely been the trend for the
last century. I also think that this is the central dynamic in the
conflict between Alliance vs Browncoat, and would have been
explored in detail had they been allowed to continue.
|2.3.08 @ 2:36PM|#
Cool new technology for electric cars.
Hi tech Leyden
jars (nanotubes=geek cool). It may prove to be feasible. I'm
skeptical, but hopeful.
|2.3.08 @ 2:44PM|#
One great thing about chunky chicks though, in my
experience, is they will are more amenable to letting you put it in
their butt more than skinny ones. Gotta love them for that alone
actually...
Dondero, that is an excellent example of why people use pseudonyms
on-line rather than their own names. MNG does NOT want that thrown
in his face while trying to pick up an ample, buxom female in
whatever sleazy gin joint he frequents.
MNG - Warmth in the winter, shade in the summer. What more could a
guy ask for?
Ali|2.3.08 @ 2:50PM|#
There is a separate thread for predictions, go to the main H&R page to place predictions.
|2.3.08 @ 2:55PM|#
One more somewhat relevant observation about full sized
women.
This
lady was hot to the Nth degree. (She denounced flapper
fashion.)
Brandybuck|2.3.08 @ 2:55PM|#
I'm confused. The Ron Paul people were playing up Maine.
Here a big clue for you: campaigns are supposed to be positive. As
someone who claims they've worked on campaigns, you should know
this. You don't get people out to vote by telling them you're going
to lose. Instead you tell everyone that you are going to have a
great showing. Sometimes you even hint to the voters that you might
even have an outside chance to <gasp> win! Why would you
counsel a candiate to lose? I'm SOOO glad you're not working for
Ron Paul anymore, because I'm sure that's what you would tell
him.
What about your buddy Giuliani! Huh? Since you rate people
according to how their candidates score, how should we rate you?
Lower than the low, I should guess! But two tiny states into the
process you jump ship and start praising Romney. BEFORE Giuliani
dropped out! What a rat you are. We Paul supporters are in this for
the long haul, but you'll abandon your heroes on a whim.
You sometimes bring up Root as someone you might have to support.
But YOU KNOW he can't get more than 2% (and that's being crazy
generous). So why would you vote for him? Wouldn't that force you
to post sarcastic comments to yourself that you're a loser because
he lost?
Signed,
David Johnson
p.s. Note that I signed this with my real name. I really want to
know why you supported a loser like Giuliani. You say we are losers
for supporting a losing candidate, but doesn't supporting Giuliani
make you an even bigger loser, since Ron Paul trounced him so
often? And why you would consider supporting a loser like Root?
Inquiring minds want to know.
BakedPenguin|2.3.08 @ 3:16PM|#
Funny thing about Garrard - Jack Del Rio got all kinds of crap
at the beginning of the year (especially here in FL) for dumping
Leftwich and saying Garrard was his guy. As you're well aware, he
was getting considerably less crap for that move by the end of the
season.
Considering they only beat the Giants by three points a few weeks
ago, I don't get that spread. As New Year's is amateur's night for
drinking, I suspect the Superbowl is amateur hour for gamblers.
Since I don't have the wherewithal to get a phony British address /
mail forwarding and set up a gambling account, it's a moot point
for me.
Pats 28, Giants 20
BakedPenguin|2.3.08 @ 3:24PM|#
[Mae West] was hot to the Nth degree.
I saw some late 1950's & early 1960's Playboys once, and some
of the centerfolds in there would definitely be called fat
today.
But not by me.
|2.3.08 @ 3:50PM|#
I saw some late 1950's & early 1960's Playboys once, and
some of the centerfolds in there would definitely be called fat
today.
Herr Penguin -
Playboy
centerfolds* from Marilyn Monroe through January, 2002. You
probably remember the first centerfold you ever got ahold of. You
can look it up.
*For nostalgic and scholarly research purposes only. All other uses
prohibited. ;-)
Bingo|2.3.08 @ 3:50PM|#
For the record,
Below 120 pounds: too bony, don't have the energy or
enthusiasm.
120-145 pounds: getting there.
145+: bouncy-bouncy!
Yeah as usual for what joe says, take this and reverse it.
Anecdotal evidence suggests short and skinny girls are like wild
animals that seem to take pleasure from putting clawmarks in your
back and on your chest and...
As a bonus 5'4 and 100 lbs of fury will give you some neat looking
tshirts the following day. Now, I need to go looking for some hair
of the dog otherwise superbowl sunday will be spent on the bathroom
floor..
|2.3.08 @ 4:08PM|#
j sub d
What can I say, I'm all for heterosexual sodomy...I guess I'm a
cosmotarian ;)
|2.3.08 @ 4:14PM|#
joe-you're wrong on the fat chicks, and the Super Bowl (hey,
I agree under 120 is often too bony, but 145+, while still great
near the lower end of that continuum, gets pretty gross pretty
fast).
I think weight is a less than useful way of gauging levels of
voluptuousness. If you like 'em tall like I do, pushing 6' tall,
145 pounds is anorexic. And, since I also like athletic women,
muscle can add a lot of weight without making them fat. And, where
the fat is located makes a big difference. On the breasts or a fine
round booty -- good. On a sagging beer-belly, not so much so.
FWIW, I find both voluptuously plump, and hard and athletic, can be
very sexy. It's the outliers -- concentration camp skinny and
flabbily obese -- that I would rule out.
For me, physical beauty is mostly in the face.
|2.3.08 @ 4:19PM|#
Not fat chicks. (NSFW)
How primitive was the past; hair on the naughty bits? Thank god we
evolved out of that.
|2.3.08 @ 4:20PM|#
joe,
I'm a Bears fan actually. I was rooting for the Giants and Jags in
the playoffs this year, cause I had reason to hate all four of the
top seeds (Packers and Colts out of loyalty to the Bears, Romo rubs
me the wrong way, Pats threaten 85 Bears as greatest team of all
time).
|2.4.08 @ 12:35AM|#
Speaking of, er, newsletters, I finally got my "Newsletters" FAQ
on the subject up on Nolan Chart.
http://www.nolanchart.com/article2435.html
You and Julian are quoted, and Matt Welch (twice), and an old
Reason alumnus - Jacob Sullum. Hope you like.
Sam Grove|2.4.08 @ 12:46AM|#
I think we should give Dondero a break.
All things considered, he actually functions at a pretty high
level, intelligent but with a certain hyperactive emotional
functioning.
Poor impulse control and high reactiveness are to be expected.
Eric Dondero|2.4.08 @ 7:29AM|#
Latest poll numbers have Ron Paul at 2% in Georgia. Perhaps the racist Newsletters really have hurt Paul. Georgia doesn't take too kindly to racists.
|2.4.08 @ 11:46AM|#
Cris-think,
I'm a Bears fan actually.
Oh. Um...sorry. I don't have anything nice to say to you about your
quarterbacks.
|2.4.08 @ 1:44PM|#
Holy crap on that 3rd party watch blog.
Funny that Dondero talks about people not using their real names
online, then he creates a character "Andrew", and does a really
really poor job at disguising that it is really Dondero.
It is funny. I think.
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