Democratic Debate Thread: The Myrtle Beach Massacre

David Weigel | January 21, 2008

If you watched it, comment here.

Comments

SIV|1.21.08 @ 11:18PM|#

If you watched it, comment here.

Never fuckin' heard about it.

|1.21.08 @ 11:20PM|#

The one thing that stuck out to me was John Edwards saying with a kind of astonishment that George Bush wanted people to have a choice with Social Security. Now, I dislike Bush as much as the next guy, but for John Edwards to dismiss the idea of choice on how we manage SS as an absurdity, is disturbing. After all, SS is the largest and most expensive program in the country. After the baby boomers die off, nobody will receive any SS benefits, yet we'll all have to pay tens, even hundreds of thousands of dollars throughout our lifetimes.

Authoritarians, all of them. At least Obama doesn't want to fine us for not having healthcare, unlike Clinton, Edwards and Romney.

Peter|1.21.08 @ 11:23PM|#

Obama won and if I had to have a democrat I wouldn't hate the world as much with him as I would with the other two.

SIV|1.21.08 @ 11:26PM|#

At one point, former North Carolina Senator John Edwards, 54, interjected: ``There is a third person in this debate.'

Above quote from bloomberg

Nikkei down over 600
poised to break 12700

Tomorrows US markets should be interesting

|1.21.08 @ 11:31PM|#

"At least Obama doesn't want to publicly announce right now his intention to fine us for not having healthcare, unlike Clinton, Edwards and Romney."

Fixed. You do recall a certain president who ran on a humble, non-nation-building foreign policy, yeah? I'll believe that a Democratic presidential candidate doesn't want to inflict socialized medicine on us AFTER he's elected and vetoed the Democratic majority's bill to do so.

|1.21.08 @ 11:36PM|#

Yeah. Have you seen the DOW futures contract?

|1.21.08 @ 11:43PM|#

Fixed. You do recall a certain president who ran on a humble, non-nation-building foreign policy, yeah? I'll believe that a Democratic presidential candidate doesn't want to inflict socialized medicine on us AFTER he's elected and vetoed the Democratic majority's bill to do so.

Noted. But keep in mind that in order for his socialized medicine to pass on a national level, I highly doubt Congress would be able to pass a Clinton-Edwards-Romney-style healthcare system.

While all of these social programs are authoritarian, Obama is playing more towards the populist side of things, while Clinton and Edwards are just flat out telling everyone what to do, and punishing them if they don't do it. Then again, the difference is like choosing to cut your left or right hand off. It's a pretty awful choice.

LevStrauss|1.21.08 @ 11:47PM|#

Tomorrow's going to be a bad day for many.

SIV|1.21.08 @ 11:48PM|#

Yeah. Have you seen the DOW futures contract?

I predict Dow closes below 11k tomorrow.
Black Tuesday with no "emergency" Fed cut.

Nikkei almost 700 down right now.

I didn't watch the Dem debate but the news accounts of Bill Clinton and Mike Huckabee at Ebenezer Baptist today are amusing.

|1.21.08 @ 11:59PM|#

NAZ futures down 4.25 right now. Just a few min ago it was only down .5

|1.22.08 @ 12:00AM|#

bounced up a point to -3.25

jkii|1.22.08 @ 12:09AM|#

The minimum wage should be whatever John Edwards gets on average as an ambulance chaser. Gardeners should get twice that.

SIV|1.22.08 @ 12:16AM|#

The minimum wage should be whatever John Edwards gets on average as an ambulance chaser. Gardeners should get twice that.

That would be inflationary. I'm rooting for deflation right now.

REASON doesn't offer much in the way of markets/finance coverage(despite the Austrian economics angles). Between beltway rents and cocaine that does't leave a lot to invest.

|1.22.08 @ 12:35AM|#

Yes, I rather wish there was a market thread for the night. Watching the world markets fall %5 is a pretty big deal - luckily our horror is denied until tomorrow because of the King holiday.

Tomorrow is going to be a bad day...

Click \'n\' Learn|1.22.08 @ 12:47AM|#

I commented on one aspect of the "debate" here.

If Ron Paul supporters want to help him get a higher percentage, take the advice at the end of that post; the questions don't have to be about immigration, although that's the best choice because it's the topic that the candidates, the MSM, and even certain "libertarian" magazines are afraid of discussing in a grown-up fashion.

|1.22.08 @ 12:51AM|#

Reason really should get Mark Skousen or Peter Schiff to cover the market for them

|1.22.08 @ 12:58AM|#

Time to pull out and dump your stake into midget porn futures

jkii|1.22.08 @ 1:01AM|#

Tomorrow is going to be a bad day...

A bad day for reckless investors is good a day for careful ones. Real wealth doesn't change quickly.

|1.22.08 @ 1:27AM|#

jkii,

No, it does not - but it will be the fruition of a long term depreciation in the US market. Panic still hurts for a while.

|1.22.08 @ 1:44AM|#

For the last couple weeks I've keep forgetting to deposit money into the brokerage account I was going to open, and I just keep feeling smarter. Nice.

Trekkie Monster|1.22.08 @ 1:56AM|#

"In volatile market, only stable investment is porn"

miche|1.22.08 @ 2:10AM|#

I'm watching a repeat of the debate now. Did Hillary really just throw in Black Congressional Caucus on MLK Day?

|1.22.08 @ 2:14AM|#

Why the hell is there a 'Huckabee in 2008' Google ad in the right column?

If we've already been pissed off at this, then sorry for reigniting the obvious sentiment.

|1.22.08 @ 2:16AM|#

"I'm rooting for deflation right now."

The last time we had a serious amount of deflation in this country, a lot of people's savings were destroyed when the banks failed.

-jcr

Gold E. Locks|1.22.08 @ 2:31AM|#

Dow? Nikkei?

Since when do reason readers invest in non-Gold assets?

miche|1.22.08 @ 2:34AM|#

Since when do reason readers invest in non-Gold assets?

Years ago for this one but after the beating the market is providing me, I'm turning a new gold leaf.

Juko|1.22.08 @ 2:34AM|#

I'd consider voting for Romney what with his no interest, dividends or cap gains tax for people under $200,000 plan.

Then again, he might change his mind on that come November.

|1.22.08 @ 2:37AM|#

NAZ futures down 29.50!

Gold E Locks|1.22.08 @ 2:45AM|#

Just when I start to think technical analysis is crankery, a big head and shoulders predicts a huse loss and all is right in my world.

jkii|1.22.08 @ 3:10AM|#

Since when do reason readers invest in non-Gold assets?

About the time I noticed that the element gold didn't have a mystical position in the periodic table. Gold is an excellent conductor of electricity, but the semi-conductors in a child's pale full of sand have more value in the digital age than all of the gold in the world.

Juko|1.22.08 @ 3:41AM|#

I found Obama to be mildly tolerable, but after winning Iowa until losing NH, he publicly got more full of himself than anyone I have ever seen in American politics (reminded me of Oprah to be honest. Worse really).

I'm scared that that might be what a President Obama looks like.

miche|1.22.08 @ 3:44AM|#

jkii,
That seemed really smart and I'm now really pissed that I spent most of Honors Chemistry (HS level-I'm not claiming above par brain activity) trying to figure out ways to get Dr. Roberts to teach my subversive group how to make MDMA.

miche|1.22.08 @ 3:49AM|#

Juko,
I'm well into my husband's bottle of scotch, but here's what I think of Obama. (from another thread of course, booze makes me lazy...)

A (wee) bit off topic: After watching some of the D Party debate tonight, I'm terrified of Obama. I disagree with him on nearly everything and yet, he's so damn likable. In an election of him v. any R candidate, including Ron Paul, I think he'll win. (Of course, judging from the BS race questions in the debate, this country* isn't capable of imagining a president of color.

*Poster excluded. Poster has slept with people of color, married people of color, socializes with people of color, daughter dates a person of color and whatever anti-racism anecdote is needed these days for white, supporting Ron Paul for R Party nom., but still libertarian women.

It dawns on me that I should've quit drinking months ago.

jkii|1.22.08 @ 4:15AM|#

That seemed really smart and I'm now really pissed that I spent most of Honors Chemistry (HS level-I'm not claiming above par brain activity) trying to figure out ways to get Dr. Roberts to teach my subversive group how to make MDMA.

I didn't mean it that way, miche. It takes a lot of know-how and hard work to turn sand into a transistor. I was just being snarky about the gold standard and the general idea of value and wealth being arbitrarily attached to an element in the periodic table.

Wilkes&Freedom|1.22.08 @ 5:23AM|#

ATTN VOTERS

Here's the numbers so far of votes cast for Republicans:
Romney 31.55% (530,758)
McCain 30.34% (510,421)
Huckabee 20.20% (339,832)
Thompson 7.27% (122,343)
Paul 6.32% (106,414)
Giuliani 3.94% ( 66,220)
Undecided 1.08% ( 18,106)
Hunter 0.39% ( 6,492)

*These totals do not consider the entirely undecipherable results from Wyoming (the state that gave us Dick Cheney)

Consider this: Nevada total turnout (Dem & Rep) was 5.26% (54,884 of 1,043,555 registered voters) vis-a-vis New Hampshire's 60.82% turnout (517,485 of 850,836 registered voters).

For a take on the total apathy of the average voter, consider that the top Republican (so far) Brother Romney has 4.62% of the total registered voters so far (530,758 of 13,888,845 registered voters) *Not counting Wyoming!

Ergo, Decision 2008: Big Douche or Turd Sandwich.

Vote or die, MF

just another libertarian|1.22.08 @ 5:30AM|#

I was just being snarky about the gold standard and the general idea of value and wealth being arbitrarily attached to an element in the periodic table.

It is not really arbitrary. I mean, people didn't wake up one day in, say, 1972 and say, "hey, let's decide the element gold is worth a lot of money!" No one was throwing darts at the periodic table to determine certain elements would be more valuable than others.

Wilkes&Freedom|1.22.08 @ 5:36AM|#

Sorry, obviously, I didn't see it. But the Dems should be damned on their lack of transparency. I couldn't calculate their turnout or totals thanks to Iowa, Michigan (biggest state, so far) and, okay SC hasn't happened yet.

But I wonder why Nevada (Red State) & SC ('nother Red State) are a big deal whereas Michigan (a potential swing state) isn't.

Democracy seems to be a pretty piss-poor export. No wonder our deficit is so large.

libertarian for obama|1.22.08 @ 6:11AM|#

I think Obama had several slam dunks in this debate - just another advance on the road to locking up the black vote.
Tomorrow the dow loses at least 800 points ... perhaps as many as 1500. I see losses for the week totaling 2500+ ...

|1.22.08 @ 7:22AM|#

The news is not that Obama "worked for a slum landlord" (a Clinton distortion of the truth which is that Obama worked for a church that had partnered with this person on a housing project and he spent 5 hours on a legal case) but that Hillary lied deliberately on national TV. As Obama properly replied, Americans want to know they can trust their leaders to tell the truth, Character is still an important issue for the electorate.

For Candy Crowley and CNN to repeat the Clinton lie as was done in analysis after the debate without including his explanation of the truth is a reprehensible effort on their part to aid Clinton in spreading a lie. This CNN effort continues on their website today.

Wilkes&Freedom|1.22.08 @ 7:30AM|#

So, federalism is dead? Thank Jesus (and the chick, Dorcas?, who climbed the sycamore tree?) that the Federal (electoral) system is still in place. Candidates need fans (even those in sycamores) to win. Jesus won. We're asking for more. In spite of Jesus, let us win. Let us win for nunya-biness. Let us win for less taxes. Let us win for where tax-decrease will come from (outta-Iraq).

Wlkes&Freedom|1.22.08 @ 7:40AM|#

What's NOT to love about Obama (other than his politics and only because we all wish he could be ours.) A pox on racial politics, he's white enough for me and more truly African.

Hopefully he belongs to Oprah's Book Club and read 'The Good Earth' by PS Buck (I know, obscure, author!), but anyway, go team Obama.

|1.22.08 @ 7:46AM|#

My healthcare plan will cover everybody and everyone's imaginary friend. The plan will then pay everyone to participate. Plus I'll give a teddy bear to all the girls and lollipops to all the boys.

crowd: applause.

Candidates 1-3: I never said I wouldn't give everyone a teddy bear, you are distorting my position, teddy bears and lollipops for everyone is what I said in years past unlike your 'teddy bears only for girls' and 'lollipops only for boys' plan. And yes, my plan pays you too.

Wilkes&Freedom|1.22.08 @ 7:57AM|#

Just gave s'more $$ to Paul to keep'm alive. I don't have kids, so there's no incentive despite 11 nieces 'n' nephews (OK, hypocritical because I understand evolution & global warming) but anyway, I figure I've got 40+ more yrs. on the planet.

I'll always vote despite leaving nearly all categories blank (judges? what's up with that.) I'll vote just to tell Shirley Jackson-Lee that she sucks. Does your Congressperson suck like mine does? Probably, you'd be surprised. Check out their record.

alittlesense|1.22.08 @ 8:06AM|#

Have a great many posters here been watching too much of ABC's World News Tonight?

I've been watching their economic reporting over the past six months and its been pretty consistent, headlining bad economic news and downplaying good economic news. They may have finally gotten what I think they wanted, a recession.

And how does Betsy Stark, their "economic" correspondent, get that look on her face that is supposed to say "I'm a a serious, sober economic correspondent with bad news" but really comes across looking like a weasel just ran up her dress?

Wilkes&Freedom|1.22.08 @ 8:12AM|#

Bad economic news+things are getting better in Iraq= Election year. Conspiracy? Not saying that, just saying it is predictable. Go RP.

|1.22.08 @ 8:44AM|#

I want to thank my former broker for dropping me for lack of activity last month. My $10,000 is still worth $10,000 today. Hopefully we reach the bottom and I can get back in before I owe capital gains taxes.

Ali|1.22.08 @ 9:34AM|#

There was a debate?

|1.22.08 @ 9:41AM|#

RP does not want a gold standard. He wants to legalize contracts that are based on gold. Allow gold as legal tender.

Gold is durable, hard to counterfeit, keeps its value over time, relatively easy to carry and store, and is universally accepted. These are main reasons why people tend to accept it as money. It is NOT arbitrary.

Money comes from the people, not the state, in a historical and absolute sense. The people over time have used many things as a medium of exchange, but most often they have used gold, with silver being the second most popular form of money.

|1.22.08 @ 9:56AM|#

Hillary can't clog the lane. Hillary can't crash the boards. Have you ever seen a white woman with a big butt try to post up? Not gonna happen.

And Edwards? More of a shooting guard type.

Gotto go with Obama for your center.

...What. Oh, centrist That's different, then.

|1.22.08 @ 10:25AM|#

"The news is that Hillary lied deliberately on national TV."

This isn't news.

"For Candy Crowley and CNN to repeat the Clinton lie as was done in analysis after the debate without including his explanation of the truth is a reprehensible effort on their part to aid Clinton in spreading a lie. This CNN effort continues on their website today."

CNN isn't called the Clinton News Network for nothing.

|1.22.08 @ 11:33AM|#

judging from the BS race questions in the debate, this country* isn't capable of imagining a president of color

I expected that asterisk would lead to a "by which I mean the Democratic Party."

Polls show he'd win the general, but his party's voters won't let him, or anyone like him, get there.

|1.22.08 @ 11:52AM|#

I wouldn't put my name on such an idiotic statement, either.

Remind me, how many Republican state primaries have been won by a black candidate in the party's history?

HC|1.22.08 @ 2:08PM|#

Obama handled the attacks well. Edwards shined the most with dealing specifically with issues; however, his and Hillary's plan to penalize peolpe for not having health insurance is insane! Obama's team is smarter than the others', and he is a sharp man... I believe he is the right person at this time in our nation for President.

The Clinton Campaign|1.22.08 @ 10:12PM|#

Everybody knows Obama can't REALLY be black. After all, he chose cocaine over crack, right?

Love ya'll!
Hillary

|1.22.08 @ 11:48PM|#

Look, that dude criticized a campaign for putting their smears against Barack Obama in other people's mouths, and did it by putting his smears against Barack Obama in other people's mouths.

How meta.