Washoe County GOP Chair: A Paul Upset?

Michael C. Moynihan | January 18, 2008

Polling data in Nevada shows Ron Paul's support in the state hovering around 7 percent. Those polls, predicts Washoe County GOP Chair Heidi Smith, will prove "wrong." "If all of their people show up tomorrow," Smith says, Paul will finish much higher than current polls suggest. "They are very organized in Washoe County [Nevada's second largest]...I think you will see a surprise [tomorrow]."

"I know what the polls say," Smith told me, "but I also know what the people say." And in Washoe they are lining up behind Ron Paul's candidacy. While Smith claims not to "do predictions," she nevertheless offers the following result in her county: "Ron Paul, Mitt Romney and then Duncan Hunter and John McCain." In that order? "Yeah. Mitt Romney could overtake Paul...Romney's putting in a big push, he's here today and people are coming out for him. Ron Paul's been here, people are supporting him. I really think that those two will make a big difference." In Nevada, she says, the issue voters are most concerned with "more than anything [is] immigration" and Paul, along with Duncan Hunter and Mitt Romney, has done a better job than most responding.

RealClearPolitics averages here.

Comments

Roger|1.18.08 @ 5:27PM|#

All the more reason for me to keep pushing hard on ME as a "foreign agitator". HOOO rah.

Joe Allen|1.18.08 @ 5:28PM|#

http://www.takimag.com/site/article/why_the_beltway_libertarians_are_trying_to_smear_ron_paul/

|1.18.08 @ 5:31PM|#

Here we go again....

|1.18.08 @ 5:34PM|#

Oh-No, Paul will not win. Not Washoe county, and not Nevada.

Fourth place is probable.

|1.18.08 @ 5:35PM|#

I'll be interested to see the actual results too.

Happened to catch part of the election coverage on PBS last night. The commentator was interviewing two or three different journalists from Nevada newspapers; each time she asked them for their predictions, they responded to the effect that 'the Ron Paul supporters were really organized, a force to be reckoned with'. Each time she pointedly ignored their comments and changed the subject back to things related to Clinton, Obama, Romney, McCain, etc.

|1.18.08 @ 5:38PM|#

Is the Moonlight Bunny Ranch a caucus site. After all, I'm fairly sure they work Saturdays.

|1.18.08 @ 5:40PM|#

If Paul doesn't win, it'll be because of shenanigans played by the Nevada GOP. They sent out the wrong caucus information. This has Romney's fingerprints all over this.

I'm hoping Paul will win NV, and finish in the top 3 in SC. That'll give him some momentum.

Geotpf|1.18.08 @ 5:49PM|#

I'll bet Paul wins Alaska, or at least comes close. Nevada, nah, although he might get double digits.

|1.18.08 @ 5:58PM|#

Geez people, stop it all ready with the predictions of Ron Paul shocking the polls. Yes he should do well there and hopefully kick Rudy and Fred's asses again, but let's keep a little tighter lid on the enthusiasm so we can make it last through this marathon. Let's face it, the MSM is making it already more of a battle by damaging many supporters faith in this campaign and then we get everybody jacked up talking about these great upsets and shocking reults in the primaries. We need to keep our focus and work the ground and keep our man in new running shoes and socks because this is a long race. Good people in the media are already supporting the effort and more are coming forward,but we need to keep up the persistence in order to get the time on the air that Ron Paul deserves for the majority voter to see who we're so crazy about. Fight the good fight!

|1.18.08 @ 6:03PM|#

"I know what the polls say," Smith told me, "but I also know what the people say."

Hehe! Stop me if you think you've heard this one before....

|1.18.08 @ 6:15PM|#

Thanks Scott...We will keep the good fight my friend, Ron Paul deserves it and so do we. God Bless Ron Paul! :)

|1.18.08 @ 6:29PM|#

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http://www.ronpaultoolbar.com/cgi-bin/myapp/app.cgi?refid=11

|1.18.08 @ 6:35PM|#

They fear me pollin'
De-batin'
Patrollin, they try and catch me writin' dirty

|1.18.08 @ 6:45PM|#

Shouldn't this be titled:

A "Reason" Upset?

Observer773|1.18.08 @ 6:54PM|#

It's FREE and makes your Ron Paul Life better
and more fun.

It's like a creepy mix of Ron Paul and V!@gr@ spam.

bring\'em young|1.18.08 @ 7:05PM|#

Nevada is a two-way contest b/w Paul and Romney, but the GOP organization is trying to rig it for Romney/ They keep moving the caucus locations and just changed the rules last night allow people not registered as Republican voters (i.e., Mormons bussed in from Utah, etc) vote.

Dr Paul's campaign has called them out on it:

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/143/nevada-gop-caucus-in-chaos

Maybe now that Reason is suddenly doing investigative political reporting, you could look into the shenanigans with the Nevada GOP?

|1.18.08 @ 7:09PM|#

I kinda remember some blowhard on LewRockwell.com talking about how Ron Paul was gonna clean up in New Hampshire, get like 35% of the vote, because his supporters were going to turn out in droves.

So, call me way skeptical about Paul winning in NV when the polls show him at 7%.

Jerry|1.18.08 @ 7:10PM|#

@Banged Turnip
If Paul wins tomorrow in NV, it will be known as the Reason bump.

|1.18.08 @ 7:13PM|#

Fingers crossed.
I have no clue how the media has done such a good job of making freedom, the Constitution, Peace and REAL money seem like radical ideas.

Maybe I am a crazy supporter because to me Paul is the only one that seems honest and knowledgeable on Foreign and Monetary policy.

|1.18.08 @ 7:15PM|#

I dn't wanna read about politics today...

being me

|1.18.08 @ 7:21PM|#

I saw that, too, just another lurker.

And it wasn't as if that Republican reporter was shilling for Paul, either.

|1.18.08 @ 7:26PM|#

Paul does have strong support in Washoe County but Romney has played it fast at the end. Make no mistake, the movers and shakers in the GOP will do all possible to keep Paul from winning anywhere...

That Paul has raised enough money to stay in the hunt for a long time frightens them. He alone exposes their mendacity and obfuscation.

Joe Allen|1.18.08 @ 7:29PM|#

ok, how 'bout this one:
http://www.ilanamercer.com/HighPriestsOfPomposityPanPaul.htm

From a Jewish lady no less! You've been pwnd!

|1.18.08 @ 7:32PM|#

Funny, I think the GOP is far more worried about putting up a firewall against Huckabee than Ron Paul.

Ok, the polls so far have 7%. What do the Paul supporters predict as the final result?

|1.18.08 @ 7:33PM|#

Unlike snarky 'Reason' [sic] writers or Cato's Kochtopus, Dr. Paul doesn't wake up each morning desperate to mess up other's people lives and draw vain-glorious attention to himself.

Jerry|1.18.08 @ 7:35PM|#

I think Paul will come in second or third, behind Romney and maybe McCain.

|1.18.08 @ 7:41PM|#

This is a caucus, not a primary. And it's a type of caucus that has never been done before in Nevada (in the sense that it matters), so none of us have any idea how the results of public opinion polling will translate into votes.

Colin|1.18.08 @ 8:31PM|#

If it were not for all these conspiracies, Ron Paul would not only win tomorrow, but he would win the presidency as well.

I bet some black zionist illuminati are behind this nefarious plot, hell-bent on building their NAFTA superhighway.

Such dastardly villians . . .

Ken|1.18.08 @ 8:52PM|#

You people that believe the Trans Texas Corridor (NAFTA super highway) is a conspiracy theory should probably do some research. Maybe look into Austin and Waco area online news outlets or TX state and county records, for example. Or talk to someone who lives there.

It is real, as is http://spp.gov and these are elements of the NAU being implemented in stealth.

TX state legislature has dealt with the issues on public record, and even the US Congress has.

I can't believe the lies being put out by the mainstream media these days and the phony politicians so many people fall for.

Mitt Romney is so fake and such a liar it is scary.

John McCain...let's just look at his comments about going to Washington to try to change/fix it but letting Washington change them(him). Ron Paul didn't let Washington change him. So, McCain is saying (truthfully) that he (McCain) has been and is corruptible. This is why they fear Ron Paul. He's proven to be uncorruptible. Think about it.

Good luck to all true Patriots in Nevada tomorrow!

Ron Paul FTW!!!

Jack|1.18.08 @ 8:57PM|#

Cal Thomas, noted conservative author and syndicated columnist, yesterday came very close to endorsing Dr. Ron Paul for president. Mr. Thomas praised Dr. Paul as follows:

"The only one behaving like a real Republican is Ron Paul, who actually wants to cut spending and get government out of our lives." said Thomas candidly.

His comments about other Republican candidates were far less kind.

Of Huckabee: "Mike Huckabee sounds like a Big Government Republican."

Of Romney's win in Michigan: "Is that what a Republican should do? Bail out a private industry?"

Of Republicans in general: "Maybe a miracle will happen and Republicans will start behaving like Republicans again."

Maybe a miracle is happening. Maybe conservative news commentators will start behaving like news commentators again.

HAHAHA|1.18.08 @ 9:07PM|#

Between Mercer and Raimondo, Reason's writers are looking more foolish by the day.

It was once a great magazine under Bob Poole's direction, but turned into a weak rag after Postrel got her hands on it.

Nathan|1.18.08 @ 9:10PM|#

Hold on a second, people are more concerned with immigration than 20 year old newsletters?

Further proof that Reason is not onto something, and that people are more concerned with freedom and justice, and less with cosmopolitan lifestyles and sideshow smear tactics.

|1.18.08 @ 9:37PM|#

It was once a great magazine under Bob Poole's direction, but turned into a weak rag after Postrel got her hands on it.

Oh, snap! What's the ruling on this?

|1.18.08 @ 9:39PM|#

Ken,

It's not the part about there being a highway planned in Texas that's the conspiracy theory.

It's the bit about the Mexicans, Illuminati, and Israel Firsters using it to land their black helicopters that is, quote unquote, disputed.

Observer773|1.18.08 @ 9:40PM|#

Cal Thomas, noted conservative author and syndicated columnist, yesterday came very close to endorsing Dr. Ron Paul for president.

Oh for fuck's sake. All week people have been accusing reason of being tools of the neocons, and now an endorsement by Cal motherfucking Thomas is a good thing?!?!

|1.18.08 @ 9:53PM|#

Each of us can go and vote for Paul.

voiceofthepeople|1.18.08 @ 10:27PM|#

With the exception of Dennis Kucinich, Fred Thompson (occasionally), Barack Obama and Dr. Ron Paul (always), few of the candidates seem to take the US Constitution seriously anymore. Our economy and our Constitution are both imploding. This should give us pause or should it? Perhaps we should scrap it and start anew? After all, once in office our elected representative must swear to uphold the US (not foreign) Constitution for all people. This includes even their most hated adversaries. People at the extremes defend it because according to this document they deserve equal protection under the law just like everyone else. I support Ron Paul. I love people of all races, religions and sexualities. I happen to be straight and black if you must know. The Ron Paul supporters I know love their country passionately. They are not racist, sexist pigs with tin foil hats or 911 truthers. They are hard working, decent wonderful people who volunteer in their community and take the time to educate themselves on the issues. They are a threat to the establishment because they think outside the box. Please consider voting for Ron Paul. Thank you for your time.

|1.18.08 @ 10:32PM|#

McCain = "I was a POW, so I get to shove Amnesty down your throat."

Huckleberry = "God told me to run for Pres., and Jesus too. I love Jesus and therefore should be Pres. and stop everyone from smoking and drinking....and whoreing."

Romney = "I'm a Mormon but my magic underwear don't matter much, I was effectively pro-death, ahh, pro-choice but in my heart always a pro-life Mormon. I worked harder than Teddy Kennedy for q weer marriage but I changed my mind."

PAUL = "Just get the government the hell outta my life, and our soldiers the hell outta Iraq."

|1.18.08 @ 10:57PM|#

One thing is for sure, we will not get a fair shake no matter where you go so we have to be prepared for the worst. All we have to do is keep Ron at the middle to middle top and his money may win this thing come end of Feb. Everyone else is broke except Romney so it will be a two candidate battle.

|1.18.08 @ 11:44PM|#

Now Mike Huckabee is being accused of racism:

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Huckabee_gave_speech_to_white_supremacists_0118.html

When is this insincere "oh my, he must be a racist!" crap stop? Let's face facts: all humans have some sort of bias against other humans, be it based on religion, gender, nationality, race, handicap, sexual orientation, age, musical tastes or whatever. The only reason race is being made to be an issue is that it's something to be used as a political tactic. It's not as if those doing the accusations are honestly concerned over racism.

|1.18.08 @ 11:47PM|#

Mitt Romney? You've gotta be kidding me. Come on Nevada. Romney is a business man and he will help out the business man by giving him cheap labor.

Ron Paul has the strictest illegal immigration policy of them all including no "baby anchors".

No coming here having a baby and the mom, dad, and baby are US citizens.

Think about it.

|1.19.08 @ 12:02AM|#

The only reason race is being made to be an issue is that it's something to be used as a political tactic.

Precisely. If Paul had just had some old-fashioned, down-home ideas he grew up with about "the blacks," none of this would have happened.

It's the deliberate strategy to use race as a political and fundraising tactic that raised people's ire.

But that's probably not what you meant.

|1.19.08 @ 12:27AM|#

No surprise about the NV gop. Here in MN, they're doing the same thing, though a bit terrified that the ronbots will do real damage. That's coming from one blogger and a caucus chair, and a different caucus chair. One backs thompson and one backs romney. hilarious. Meanwhile the chair of the party is going for Huckabee. Chaos reigns and the state will go blue. Might as well vote for paul.

|1.19.08 @ 12:48AM|#

I have to say I live in Washoe. I went to my office today and there was a class in progress on the break everybody sprinted out to the computers. The whole class was running around to get the correct location for the vote on Saturday.

I asked person after person who are you voting for and every one (over forty people) told me Ron Paul.

I went to lunch at a German place here in town and there was a group of old guys eating I sat down and heard them arguing about where the right place was to vote. I leaned over and asked them Who are you voting for, "RON PAUL" every one of the said with a smile.

I got up to pay and went the old guy running the cash register, I asked him are you voting in the morgen, He smiled at me and said yes I am voting for Ron Paul.

I walked to car I started to cry what the hell is going on. I guess freedom is something we all want much more than we know, I called my business partner he is 15 years my senior and he was ranting about a problem with his business, then he asked me if I will vote in the morning and I said yes, who are voting for, he said I would vote for Ron Paul except for he wants to cut and run from Iraq.

I asked him, you were an MIA in Vietnam, right and he said yes. I asked him did you know that almost no American service man has survived capture in the middle east. He made a funny choking sound and then told me I guess this is not Vietnam. I guess I would like to see him win. I told him I will call him at 8 am get him the right location to got to vote.

God Bless you and I hope you will vote for the best thing not the guy they tell you that can win.

LibertySilver|1.19.08 @ 2:10AM|#

Vote for Ron Paul.
Go with your heart.
Go with what is right.
We have this one chance.
Donate to the campaign on January 21st
at http://freeatlast2008.com

|1.19.08 @ 2:54AM|#

I think Moynihan made this post just to see if he could draw a crazy reaction to a totally neutral Ron Paul item.

|1.19.08 @ 3:04AM|#

joe, you are nuts, where do you get your bullcrap?

|1.19.08 @ 6:23AM|#

Stephen Morris

Would you please explain to me how these "baby anchor" work?

Because just in case you didn't know, if ICE finds an undocumented alien he or she is deported regardless of the citizenship status of his or her children. Yes, the child can stay if there is a citizen prepared to take it but most return to Mexico with their parents. Not a very effective anchor. Sure hope the literal anchors on real ships work a lot better or we'd end up with a lot more hulks on the rocks.

So again, how does this "baby anchor" work?

And y'know, I've met Ron Paul and he has my vote. But on this issue he is just plain wrong.

|1.19.08 @ 8:53AM|#

If Dr. Paul does not win, it's time to go to war. Enough of the same old B.S. I'm ready to die for it.

|1.19.08 @ 9:13AM|#

Dont let the CFR make your vote ,vote for yourself Vot Ron Paul you know he's the best for the country give into that desire to make real change not to who you think can win

Egosumabbas|1.19.08 @ 9:17AM|#

So I went to an early vote in downtown Chicago. Of course, it's all electronic voting in the name of "accessibility". Anyhoo, I ask for a republican ballot, and of course I "accidentally" get a democratic one. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, I politely ask for a new (electronic) ballot. And the assistant goes HEY I NEED A REPUBLICAN BALLOT HERE. All the eyes in the room flicker for a second on me. So much for anonymous voting, eh? So the assistant comes back, and is about to reinsert the "ballot" (really just a plastic card), only to find the ballot machine COMPLETELY FROZEN. So he hastily ushered me to a new ballot machine. Let's just say I'm sure glad these particular machines left a paper trail.

I wonder if that vote machine is still frozen.

|1.19.08 @ 9:25AM|#

After reading this VDARE article, all the charges of "racism" leveled against Paul simply vanish into thin air:
http://www.vdare.com/epstein/080116_libertarians.htm

|1.19.08 @ 9:30AM|#

The conspiracy theorists make up a very small percentage of the Ron Paul Revolution. I am no conspiracy theorist but I DO know there are quite a few who are pretty naive to the facts.

Look at the economy right now. Ron Paul has been saying this was going to happen over and over. Now, the GAO comptroller general David Walker (the head accountant of the us government) is agreeing with Ron Paul. The nation is insolvent due to the creation of money out of thin air to pay for more guns and more butter. Our dollar today is worth 3 cents of the dollar from 1913 when the Federal Reserve (a private banking cartel that isn't even part of our government) was first instituted. Our founding fathers continously warned about a central bank and having anything but gold and silver being legal tender.

Why?Just look at what happened with the Continental. The SAME thing is going on right now. The ONLY thing keeping this whole charade going is that the US dollar is the World Reserve Currency. How did it obtain that status? By being backed by gold. The korean war and the vietnam war combined with the Nanny state (welfare, medicare etc) that was built up during that era by printing money out of thin air devaluated the currency so much that the rest of the world started to reject it in 1970/71. They wanted their gold. Nixon said no and took us off the gold standard. Why? Because the US government didnt have enough gold to exchange for all the dollars it created. We were basically bankrupt then.

So now the world was left with all these useless dollars. How to keep them from dumping them back into the us economy and causing the currency to crash? Simple. Sign a deal with the Saudi Arabians in 72 that they would sell their oil ONLY in dollars. Now, the rest of the OPEC nations followed suit, thus sealing the deal.

What did that do to the rest of the world that had these useless scraps of paper called dollars that they wanted to get rid of? It made them have to keep them....and continue to buy more of them. Why....because every nation needs OIL for their civilian, construction, aero nautical and military vehicles. If you dont keep the dollars.....you cant buy oil. So the US could keep devaluating its currency by creating money out of thin air and forcing it upon the rest of the nations of the world and there was nothing they could do about it. It's a hidden taxation on the entire planet through inflation.

This gave the US a HUGE economic advantage in that the world would have to keep buying ever depreciating dollars to get gas with and the US could build up a massive military empire with 700 bases around the globe in 130 different countries. Everyone in the US could live a dreamy existence and not question anything etc. The French and Germans saw this and helped form the European Union with the express purpose of getting the Euro as the World Reserve Currency. Hence the reason they were pretty anti-us iraq invasion. Why? Because saddam hussein quit selling his oil in dollars in 2000 and begin selling in .......Euros! By 2003 the US invaded Iraq and within one month's time after toppling Saddam, sales of oil quietly went back from Euro to dollars.

In comes Iran. They too are losing a ton of money. What they have done though, is to create an Oil Bourse...an exchange that is not going to be trading in dollars. Euro and Dinar only. (Dinar because even Kuwait...who has nothing against the US...quit selling in dollars too. It's just too expensive and they are losing so much money). The Bourse goes live in 3 weeks, Feb 08. Who is the US talking of attacking next? Iran. Why? Because of nuclear armed terrorists? Because they hate Jews? NO and NO. The NIE has said repeatedly that Iran has no nuclear weapons nor can create them for at least a decade. Iran has the largest jewish population in the entire middle east outside of Israel. They are going to be attacked because of the Oil Bourse. That bourse is more powerful than 1000 nuclear bombs. All the world economies are going to ditch the dollar and trade in Euro when the option is available, thus crashing the dollar as a currency. Similar to Weimar, Germany post WW1.

The US can't let that happen so t hey are probably going to sick Israel on Iran, probably via a faked attack on israel, similar to a gulf of tonkin type event. (speed boats attacking 3 destroyers strike a note?) However, this will freeze the markets like a deer in the headlights, and thus crash the US economy, not to mention the EU, Russia and China all get more than 1/3 of their oil from Iran and all have deeply vested interests in seeing the Bourse succeed. The US is in a lose, lose situation and it's going to become readily apparent in 2008. The ONLY hope the United States has of weathering this situation is to elect that guy Ron Paul. He's the ONLY one with a game plan that will stop the currency from crashing. Just look at how the Dow did after Bernanke gave his stimulus package talk yesterday. 300 point drop. Everyone knows that doling out beer money to Americans isn't going to fix the complete erosion of the financial underpinning of the US economy from the SubPrime Mortgage Scandal. That is the single largest fraudelent event in the course of human civilization. What's the fed's response? Let's just print more money!! woohoo!! Too bad for them tons of folks are catching on due to Ron Paul educating everyone about economics.

Obama......bah.....loser. He wants to continue policing the world, wont remove the 14 permanent bases in Iraq, wont remove nuclear first strike against Iran off the table, want's to implement socialized medicine. Where is he gonna get all the money for this?!?! The head accountant of the government already said we're broke! Bankrupt! No more money!! Just creating money out of thin air is going to devaluate the currency even more and push other nations away from dollar that much quicker. I dont really care if Obama is a muslim or any of that stuff. I feel it's kind of bigoted to not vote for someone due to their religion. There is some stigma against Muslims that have been ingrained in the US populace psyche and it's all unfounded.

THey don't attack us because we are free....they are attacking us because we have been over there for the last 50+ years propping up brutal dictators who kidnap, torture and murder their own people by the tens of thousands. Our CIA helped topple Mossadeq in 1953 in Iran and had the Shah put into power. Operation Ajax. Google it up. That shah turned out to be a brutal dictator. Eventually the Iranian people overthrew that Shah and took Americans hostage. Why? Because they are these evil terrorists? NO! Because they were provoked. If they had done the same thing to America, would you consider yourself a terrorist if you helped to overthrow some brutal dictator puppet that they put into power over here? Hell no. Then we did the same thing in Saudi Arabia. Not only that, but we occupied the country. That's where Mecca and Medina are located....the epicenters of their religion. That's like if they came here and propped up some brutal dictatorial monarchy in North Dakota and put a base on the heads of Mt.Rushmore. We wouldn't be very happy with that. Then we put Saddam in power to go attack Iran. We gave him biological weapons of mass destruction. He, too, turned out to be a brutal military dictator that used the gas on his own freakin people. Same thing with Musharraf, a military dictator who overthrew a democratically elected government and who has an 8% approvement rating of the population in Pakistan, we just gave him 10 billion bucks. We just sent 20 billion dollars worth of weapons to Saudi Arabia.

They are NOT attacking us because we are free. That's just some idiotic, pathetic excuse pushed by our propaganda machine so that we can keep going to war over there to keep the Dollar as the World Reserve Currency. They have this War on Terror......terror is a tactic...not a combatant. You can't win a war on terror by going and attacking ppl in far off lands and toppling governments. You have to address the source problem.....which is us being over there for decades, helping put into power ppl that are brutal, evil dictators. Occupying their lands with our troops only incenses them even more. If we pull our presence out of there the terrorists don't have any ability to recruit because their main incentive just left. It's common sense. Please, save our future, along with our children's. Our current way of life is unsustainable (so sayeth David Walker, head accountant of the US). Vote for Ron Paul and tell every single person you meet on the street about him.

Moby|1.19.08 @ 9:35AM|#

I'm not using my new Ron Paul toolbar until they get Lew Rockwell's site off the list.

|1.19.08 @ 10:58AM|#

You're going to have to be a little more specific, Ken.

If you were asking about the "NAFTA Superhighway," I was making fun of the true believers.

Roger|1.19.08 @ 11:27AM|#

joe: If you were asking about the "NAFTA Superhighway," I was making fun of the true believers.



I am always verrry skeptical of conspiracy theories, NWO, 9/11 Inside Job movement, and this North American Union chatter that Birchers & Co. have been harping on for years. However, as someone else pointed out on the H&R forum before, ths Canadian government website that talks about major NAFTA-type highways when concurrently there is next to zero non-fringe discussion occurring. There's often a little nugget of truth or interesting information buried in the agendas of folks all too eager to be before-everyone-else soothsayers, saviors of the Republic, when judgment day comes. I'm not a 100% sovreignity zealot, but I get the suspicion something is going on that at first glance could be insidious.

|1.19.08 @ 11:45AM|#

Roger,

And I as i have pointed out, it's not the fact that they are planning on building a highway in Texas that is being disputed.

Of course they are building a highway in Texas. A great, big one, with separate trucking and passenger-car lanes.

It's the bit about this highway being part of a massive conspracy to create a North American Union that's the looney part.

Like theh 9/11 truthers; it's not the part about 9/11 happening that's the conspiracy theory, but the fantasy they spin around it.

Roger|1.19.08 @ 12:15PM|#

joe: I would have to agree on all points discussed above, although I cannot say that I was able to track your pro/anti NAFTA Superhighway position due to the intractable effort of reading every H&R post. There is no smoking gun as it were; no investigative effort produces a piece of documented truth that makes a logical and irrefutable connection between NAFTA Superhighway => NAU, ergo 9/11 truth movement => 9/11 Was Definitely An Inside Job movement.

What I would like to see out of the professor/scientific wing of the truther movement myself is an bare minimum thermodynamic paper calculation or crude empirical experiment to describe what it would take under perfect circumstances in terms of combustable thermal output to "melt steel" as they assert is requisite for collapse of a building. I do not notice that they have made any effort ot address the role of swinging counterweights that high-rise buildings require to remain stable at high double-digit storey counts. These weights are more or less swinging potential energy bombs. Such a sad thing to waste productivity on.

Colin|1.19.08 @ 1:18PM|#

NBC exit polls have Paul tied with Romney in Washoe.

Joe|1.19.08 @ 1:20PM|#

>> Scott | January 18, 2008, 5:58pm | #
>> Yes he should do well there and hopefully kick Rudy and Fred's asses again, but let's keep a little tighter lid on the enthusiasm so we can make it last through this marathon.
>> We need to keep our focus and work the ground and keep our man in new running shoes and socks because this is a long race.

Scott, well said and great approach of persistence to end this long race as the winner. Ron Paul has the message, and we need to deliver the message over the entire race.

|1.19.08 @ 1:21PM|#

If you are asking me to vote for Ron Paul, I have to say yes and no, if he makes it to the general election then it is a yes. I do agree with 90% of what he says, however the idea of pulling troops out of Iraq is what turns me off. I am a viet vet, and seeing as how would any country ever fell about calling on the USA for any milatary help ever again?

Roger|1.19.08 @ 2:48PM|#

woody: for what it's worth, while I don't have military credentials I used to feel the way that you do. What I really came to understand about the whole endeavour is that I don't want to continue paying for that fucking war particularly because I thought the premise of going in there was moronic from the get-go. While I used to feel obligated to throw my weight behind making sure that Iraq stablises because it felt like the right thing to do before, when I look at even conservative estimates of my proportional financial responsibility to that god damn war and what I am being roped into paying against my will is criminal in itself.

Roger|1.19.08 @ 2:51PM|#

Also, it felt shitty to me at first to think about it strictly in financial terms, but if the Iraqi people really wanted the system we're attempting to foist onto them, all the upstanding citizens would have taken the reigns long ago. I am for allowing Iraq to fracture borders into smaller somewhat ethnic nation-states.

wes|1.19.08 @ 5:52PM|#

woodyh- i am not a vietnam vet, but I would think that being a vietnam vet and seeing all of the death and destruction and how long an unjust war lasts, you would support an anti-war candidate when we are in the midst of a never-ending war.

Gene Callahan|1.21.08 @ 2:54AM|#

"however the idea of pulling troops out of Iraq is what turns me off. I am a viet vet, and seeing as how would any country ever fell about calling on the USA for any milatary help ever again?"

So you think Iraq called on the US for military help, and that's how we got there?

|1.21.08 @ 6:10PM|#

Take a look at this video: http://www.spymac.com/details/?2331213