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The Paul Campaign Speaks
CONCORD,
NH - "If you walked into this room tonight you'd think we won,"
said Ron Paul campaign manager Lew Moore. "There was more energy in
this room than in McCain's party!"
McCain's party was about an hour away, so I couldn't verify that, but there's a kernel of truth. Before Ron Paul took the stage at the Courtyard Marriott (rumored to have been Barack Obama's first choice for his eventual "so close!" party), volunteers from out of state and a smaller contingent of New Hampshire voters bit their nails and stared down a giant TV screen tuned to CNN. At 8 p.m. they started cheering whenever the numbers for Paul and Rudy Giuliani came up, with the two candidates battling for fourth place. They booed CNN's pie chart, which showed a big black nameless piece where Paul's name should have been.
"That is SUCH censorship!" someone yelled near the snacks table.
The gloom built and built but it faded when Paul arrived. His speech was nothing out of the ordinary, the same discourse on sound money, "humble foreign policy," and the energy of his REVOLution. When he started in on sound money, the crowd chanted "Abolish the Fed! Abolish the Fed!", a chant that's become as familiar at his rallies as "Hey, Hey, LBJ" was at an anti-Vietnam rally. Paul beamed. "That warms my heart!"
After the speech I talked to Moore about what they learned from the disappointing fourth or fifth place showing (a tie for fourth looks likely). "We would have liked to finish in third," he said. "The lessons we can learn from this, what worked and what didn't... I'm still putting that together in my head."
Moore stressed a look forward to the next primaries. "The energy is starting to build," he said, "and I think it's a question of whether it builds fast enough to impact this front-loaded primary process." He praised the long-active South Carolina organization and a strong (Tucker Carlson-profiled) organization in Nevada and pointed out strength in Super Tuesday states. Some states to look out for: Colorado, Oklahoma, Alabama, and Maine, where he's headed this weekend. (He didn't mention Montana, which has measurable Paul strength). He considers Alaska's Feb. 5 poll winnable.
The Paul campaign might have fallen out of contention for third place after independents started to move late last month. "Obama was a factor, and his surge hurt us. There were people we had marked as sure Paul voters and precinct watchers saw them picking up blue ballots." McCain's surge hurt too: "Huckabee didn't hurt us much here, but he's got an appeal to evangelical voters we're also trying to win."
|1.8.08 @ 11:56PM|#
With 87% of the vote in AND after looking at the exit polls on CNN dot com it is clear that most of the independent and unregisterd vote went to the Democrats, and in particular to Obama. However, when looking at the issues like the war, even if Obama did not run, it does not look like the votes would have gone to Paul. Obama is a graudalist/stay in Iraq vote attracter. Oddly Clinton got most of the GET OUT OF IRAQ ASAP votes. People sure are strange! I keep hoping that the 2000 votes Paul needs to catch Giuliani have not been reported yet. We could then claim 4th.
Eric Dondero|1.9.08 @ 12:00AM|#
"Obama's surge hurt Paul."
Umm, Obama lost tonight. Hillary Clinton beat him. How's that a
"surge"?
Edward|1.9.08 @ 12:01AM|#
I knew he would come in fifth. His racist newsletters weren't a factor, of course, because news of them didn't hit the mainstream media. How do you think he'll do in South Carolina?
|1.9.08 @ 12:02AM|#
I think Ron Paul needs to be more aggressive in his debates. He is too gentlemanly. He needs to behave like he did on the Laura Ingraham show where he kicked her ass. He was aggressive and showed a lot of strength. This is what Americans need to see. The message, even a great one, is not enough. I think he can win, but he needs to change his strategy and emphasize his strengths and the fact that he hasn't changed his positions like the other candidates have. Also, he hasn't used some of those UTube commercials which are much better than the official commercials put by his campaign. His record needs to be emphasized. I think much of the problem is strategic and still can be corrected.
Bingo|1.9.08 @ 12:07AM|#
WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT A GIRL IN THE PICTURE??? A GIRL AT A
LIBERTARIAN EVENT?!?!
WHAT THE FUCK!
|1.9.08 @ 12:09AM|#
Mr. Dondero,
I criticized you some time ago in some posts here, but I've been
pleased with your contributions to this forum since that time.
Although we have to agree to disagree on the subject of Ron Paul, I
think you have some interesting insights and many thoughtful
analyses. As a fellow veteran (Semper Fi), I appreciate your
service to our country.
Would you care to share what you personally know about who did in
fact write for Paul's newsletters? Was it Lew Rockwell, or Gary
North, or both, and/or others? Thanks in advance for shedding what
light, if any, you can.
Yid|1.9.08 @ 12:17AM|#
Bingo, look more closely. It's merely the peyos of the blond Jewish cowboy to our right.
|1.9.08 @ 12:19AM|#
There is never, really, a reason to let up. Based on what I have
seen from early exit polling, about 8/10 New Hampshire Republican
voters are afraid of another terrorist attack, and slightly less
Democratic voters feel the same way. The political "elites" are
betting on scaremongering to keep the herd in line. Yet, the
anti-war demographic (those who are against the war) are not really
being accounted for. There are probably many youth (who represent
the most anti-war element) who are opting for Obama in the false
hopes that he is against war, but I have yet to see the proof of
that. His advising team includes Brzezinski, who is a world-builder
par excellence. Once the non-change realities of Obama sink in, and
the fact that populist Obama can't deliver on everything (health
care, world-building, jobs), the light will dim on his
progression.
New Hampshire "independent" voters greatly disappointed me,
however, in that they voted for the "maverick" McCain. If there
ever was an establishment candidate, he is it. Insider,
totally--his rhetoric of change is laughable.
The real test for Paul will come when he meets college-populated
states, where youth vote will be more prevalent. Pulling in a
respectable percentage will be important, since the Republican
Party is waffling on who the "frontrunners" are. A McCain-Huckabee
ticket will more than likely fall flat. It will be the Obama-Paul
voters who will measure most strongly, as most of the establishment
will split around the big names in the general election.
New Hampshire and Iowa have really shown us very little, to date.
The real theater is still to come.
tarran|1.9.08 @ 12:20AM|#
Andrew, you realize you're saluting a guy who got busted down
from E-5 to E-3 for fighting right? You realize that he is proud of
this fact, right?
Back when I was in the military guys like that made our jobs harder
not easier. How much time did his LPO, Chief and Div O have to
devote to his lack of discipline? How many evolutions did that
negatively effect?
How many stupid rules were promulgated that effectively punished
his shipmates because of his problems?
I had guys like him working for me, and believe me, when they were
sent to the beach we all breathed a sigh of relief.
Ayn R. Key|1.9.08 @ 12:21AM|#
As a fellow veteran, I find it particularly annoying how Dondero implies "My comments are more important because I'm a veteran".
|1.9.08 @ 12:25AM|#
I think there are a couple of lessons here.
1. The campaign needs better organization. I was listening to
Boortz this morning just so I could hear Ron Paul. Boortz says the
campaign called him and said he wasn't coming with no explanation.
So of course Boortz goes on a tirade, and then watches and
announces that Ron Paul walks right past him to talk to someone
else. This could have been handled much more professionally.
2. The Hannity incident... We need to get a grip on some of the
supporters. I understand the frustration fully. But we are
representing Ron Paul and we don't need the bad publicity.
Especially if the first time someone hears about Ron Paul it's
linked to something like this.
Anyway that's just my opinion.
|1.9.08 @ 12:28AM|#
I have mixed feelings. anybody else??? should ron just retire to protect the libertarian "movement" from the racist stuff, especially considering his eight percent which was supposed to be 15 - 20 in new hampshire, or should he keep fighting risking his name and ours for possible victories ahead?? if this shit gets anywhere MSM we are set back 10 years.
|1.9.08 @ 12:30AM|#
I don't know much about Dondero except that he's apparently an embittered former employee of Ron Paul's. I do get nervous when I hear names like Gary North. He's been a nut (although one with a nose for how to profit from other nuts) for years. How deeply is Ron Paul tied into this lunatic fringe?
Eddy Elfenbein|1.9.08 @ 12:31AM|#
According to the exit polls, for the under 24 set, Ron Paul did better than Hillary. Different voting sets, but you get the point.
|1.9.08 @ 12:31AM|#
Boortz deserved getting left at the altar. He's become such an intolerable ass clown ever since 9/11.
|1.9.08 @ 12:37AM|#
Paul needs to explain two things to the republicans much better:
his anti-war stance, and entitlement spending. While he may comment
on these, it's never persuasive enough to convince republicans, the
people who's nomination he's looking for, remember? He doesn't have
to pander to them, just give them attention, and address the common
objections.
They are related, as well, so it should be easy. He claims pulling
out will save billions and help the economy recover. half true.
military spending is a minor fraction of total government spending,
and if he really wants to reign in spending he needs to go after
social security, medical care, and welfare, not to mention pork
spending.
When his candidacy is dealt a near-fatal blow, as it has today, he
needs to respond effectively, as Radley pointed out earlier.
If he wants to be a serious candidate, he needs to address real
issues. Stop wasting time on the gold standard, he will never have
the authority to implement that kind of thing.
We need to hear a discussion with republicans on foreign policy and
free trade, and on the morality (or lack of) of entitlement
spending. If this campaign is about the movement, and about the
ideas, then lets back up the ideas a little better.
|1.9.08 @ 12:38AM|#
I thought the chant was "End the Fed, End the Fed"
"Abolish the Fed" doesn't have a good ring to it at all...
JBinMO|1.9.08 @ 12:41AM|#
Javier
He should stay. The Rups and Dems spend so much time throwing
bullshit, they will just do the same to the next Libertarian. We
need to learn to fight fire with fire.
Jim Peterson|1.9.08 @ 12:41AM|#
I am a major Ron Paul supporter but I think the Iraq War was
necessary and don't like to see extremist statements like "we
should dismantle 100% of our bases overseas".
IMHO, the anti-war people are hurting the real message of civil
liberties at home.
And it does not suffice to just say "we are losing civil
liberties". One has to explain in detail what liberties have been
lost, such as the loss of the right to assemble in Internet
regulation laws like IMBRA (see
www.online-dating-rights.com).
John McCain is the biggest proponent of Internet regulation in the
Senate.
But did the Ron Paul campaign mention any of this? Nope.
And we Ron Paul supporters are thinking the NH voters were stupid?
Try the other way around. The voters were just ignorant of what we
would not tell them because of incompetent managers at Ron Paul
HQ.
.|1.9.08 @ 12:50AM|#
According to the exit polls, for the under 24 set, Ron Paul
did better than Hillary. Different voting sets, but you get the
point.
Now Paul just has to live for another 30 years. Maybe he'll have a
shot when today's young people are the major core of voters.
|1.9.08 @ 12:51AM|#
The question asked is how close is Ron Paul to the lunatic fringe including Gary North in that fringe. Very close indeed. North, like Rockwell (the presumed author of those newsletters), both worked for Paul in his Congression office -- that's pretty close. Paul has remained allied with them since.
|1.9.08 @ 1:02AM|#
Not only did they chant "End the Fed!", that's basically all
that ran on CNN when they cut to his speech!
Wolf Blitzer cut them off after about 20 seconds of it.
Of course the other conceding candidates got several minutes since
their supporters were much less passionate and issue driven.
|1.9.08 @ 1:07AM|#
"Huckabee didn't hurt us much here, but he's got an appeal
to evangelical voters we're also trying to win."
dumb, dumb strategy. He turns off more potential supporters than he
gains with that nonsensical approach.
They need to tap libertarian sympathies, not evangelical.
Franklin Harris|1.9.08 @ 1:17AM|#
dumb, dumb strategy. He turns off more potential supporters than he gains with that nonsensical approach.
They need to tap libertarian sympathies, not evangelical.
He thinks he can do both by hitting on issues like abolishing the
Dept. of Education and supporting homeschooling. The problem with
that, however, is that evangelicals care about abortion about all
else, and for them even Ron Paul's federalist position is wishy
washy. Evangelicals aren't federalists except in an opportunistic
sense: they become federalists when the Supreme Court rules against
them. Otherwise, they're all for a "human life amendment" to the
Constitution (Paul isn't), and they'd be all for the Dept. of
Education if they thought it could mandate teaching
creationism.
Francois Tremblay|1.9.08 @ 1:31AM|#
"I am a major Ron Paul supporter but I think the Iraq War was
necessary"
Having crackpots like this guy on our side comes with the
territory, I guess.
|1.9.08 @ 1:35AM|#
"clear that most of the independent and unregisterd vote went to
the Democrats, and in particular to Obama. "
Well, I can't fault anyone for doing their best to try to keep that
harpy out of the white house.
-jcr
CosmoReaxer|1.9.08 @ 1:48AM|#
The best thing I've heard tonight, is that his "weakness" as listed on this candidate-ranking site is "passages." Zounds!
Ali|1.9.08 @ 1:49AM|#
Dave- I was in the hall but couldn't see you! It would have been nice to meet you in person.
|1.9.08 @ 1:57AM|#
Now that the "rLOVEution" is all but finished, I can go back to a being regular libertarian, without a smidge of hope for the future of our society, even in the deepest and darkest corners of my soul.
Jim Peterson|1.9.08 @ 2:02AM|#
["I am a major Ron Paul supporter but I think the Iraq War was
necessary"
Having crackpots like this guy on our side comes with the
territory, I guess.]
What the heck did you mean by that? There are plenty of military
members and veterans who disagree with RP on the Iraq War but still
support him for the personal liberty issues.
It takes a crackpot to say that one who supports the war must also
support no civil liberties at home. After all, those who support
the war believe that we are spreading freedom to others.
Jim Peterson|1.9.08 @ 2:05AM|#
In fact I will go further and say the anti-war "leftists" are
obviously hurting the RP campaign. Since 911, we Republican males
are mostly OK with being on the offense at least in terms of a few
bases in strategic areas (no, the Germans do not hate us for
maintaining bases in Germany 60 years after WW2).
RP will never break 10% nationally if he does not switch his focus
to civil liberties and stop implying that he would dismantle even
the airbase in Germany.
Nash|1.9.08 @ 2:05AM|#
"We need to hear a discussion with republicans on foreign policy
and free trade, and on the morality (or lack of) of entitlement
spending. If this campaign is about the movement, and about the
ideas, then lets back up the ideas a little better."
Most Republicans like their entitlements these days and that's
really a serious issue. I mean Fred Thompson by all regards is the
"true conservative" in the race and his campaign has pretty much
completely tanked.
In a world where we weren't blowing money on a war, I'd really want
to like Romney. But every time I look closer I find yet another
social program he gladly signed as governor. He won't take a stand
on any federal departments. He just thinks they're all great and
he'll probably add a few more if he ever sees the white
house.
This is the problem. People want more government. We can complain
all day long about how Paul has mismanaged the campaign or missed
opportunities or whatever but the reality is a) people don't really
want less government and b) Paul is way too radical to get
elected.
Jim Peterson|1.9.08 @ 2:08AM|#
And courting the evangelists is also a dumb idea. Better to
court males in general and alerting them to rights losses to
radical feminists who control Congress now (and own John
McCain).
COPA is just one judge away from ending pornography on the
Internet. Evangelists would love that. But 85% of males would
not.
IMBRA forces Americans to have background checks before being
allowed to say hello to foreign women online. Nobody knows about
that law because Ron Paul's campaign managers don't think it is an
issue anyone would care about.
The problem is with RP's campaign managers.
They obviously don't know what could get their candidate top tier
status.
|1.9.08 @ 2:30AM|#
Where's his apology to all people who call themselves
"libertarians" of any stripe? I don't think the true believers will
ever get how far back this sets their cause.
It was irresponsible and stupid of the man to draw so much
atttention to himself as a leader of his cause knowing that this
was out there. He is going to take a lot of people down with him.
Not just pols and writers and such, but his grass roots supporters
in the eyes of the people they were evangalizing.
The word itself will be poison to a large chunk of people after
this.
I suggest renaming it "Charliebrownism."
|1.9.08 @ 2:31AM|#
"In fact I will go further and say the anti-war "leftists" are
obviously hurting the RP campaign. Since 911, we Republican males
are mostly OK with being on the offense at least in terms of a few
bases in strategic areas (no, the Germans do not hate us for
maintaining bases in Germany 60 years after WW2).
RP will never break 10% nationally if he does not switch his focus
to civil liberties and stop implying that he would dismantle even
the airbase in Germany."
yeah... it made me mad during the ABC debate they asked him about
health care and he started talking about the war.
its like he was trying to get the democrats to say 'hes the lesser
evil of the republicans' instead of actually trying to get
republican votes. he should talk of the economy and civil liberties
almost exclusively. let the dems talk about the war.
Ebeneezer Scrooge|1.9.08 @ 2:32AM|#
javier,
if this shit gets anywhere MSM we are set back 10
years
Ten years? Hell we can't get out of the last Ice Age at this point.
As someone said it above, Americans don't want smaller
government.
|1.9.08 @ 2:33AM|#
People already dislike the word 'libertarian' and have for years. It sounds like 'vegetarian'.
Ebeneezer Scrooge|1.9.08 @ 2:35AM|#
If Paul isn't going to take it, then Obama is my next best bet.
Not that he's any good, it's just that he looks the last
dangerous.
If the Dems had half a brain, they'd get the She-Bitch off the
table asap. She's the only thing that might actually put
Humpty-Dumpty Republicans back together again.
In any case, if Ron Paul wasn't the nominee then I promised that I
would vote for VM's blow-up Nam Chomsky doll.
And I am a man of my word.
|1.9.08 @ 2:43AM|#
It's pretty safe to say that, beyond tonight, the campaign is
toast and speculation of any future success by campaign officials
is unbelievably ignorant once the TNR expose makes its 'evening
news' and mainstream media rounds. Even if they had made, say, 20%
and took 3rd it would have only been worthwhile news as a measure
of libertarian support in general; as far as the campaign itself,
it would have been a hollow victory knowing what's coming up now
that the media is no longer distracted by tonight's vote.
We can hope the off-line media is asleep at the wheel, but I have
my doubts right now. The irony of blowback and the Paul-coined
notion of not continuing on in a losing battle in order to 'save
face' isn't lost on me, no matter how much I would probably love
the guy if I met and spoke to him, and knowing he probably feels
little to nothing today of what his newsletters portray him
as.
It's just sad all around, but I know when it's best for myself to
fold and cut my losses while we're ahead.
|1.9.08 @ 2:47AM|#
Good lord... "Can Paul survive this?".. Only to the degree that he is the candidate of the KKK, who have, contra the left, not much traction these days. There's political suicide, and then there's shooting yourself and then hanging yourself and then drowning yourself.. Rasputin was never the President of the US, something he has in common with Ron Paul. This has nothing to do with fair. It's just politics. Reason has played that game pretty hard for a while- I will be amused if I see articles defending Paul.
Sam Grove|1.9.08 @ 2:57AM|#
(no, the Germans do not hate us for maintaining bases in
Germany 60 years after WW2)
Tell that to my uncle who had schnapps forced down his throat in
Germany for being American...and this was before the wall was taken
down.
Sam Grove|1.9.08 @ 2:59AM|#
The low showing makes it less newsworthy.
They can go back to ignoring Paul now.
Jim Peterson|1.9.08 @ 3:10AM|#
I served in Germany and still live in Germany. We still have the
big base in Frankfurt. Most Europeans feel comfortable at the base
remains (there is still a fear that the Germans will rise
again).
Regarding RP quitting: some people have a dangerously mistaken idea
of this campaign.
We, the 8% of Americans who support Ron Paul, are NOT going to
allow neocon Republicans to be elected even as dog catchers in
2008.
Consider the NH results as meaning Hillary WILL be president
because I would sooner be tarred and feathered myself than see a
pro-feminist, big government liberal-loving traitor like John
McCain become US president.
Ditto for Romney and ditto for Julie Annie unless he takes up a
pro-rights, anti-feminist attitude vs Hillary this year (should he
win the nomination, which should be easy against McCain, Romney and
Huckabee who are all non-starters in big states).
RP may be running a poor campaign so far with this seemingly left
wing progressive anti-war stance (Republican males do not
understand non-interventionism after 911 and I do not blame
them).
But someone like RP can pick up the pieces if the neocon crowd is
defeated by Hillary...except Hillary is part of the Neocon crowd
herself. :-(
Jim Peterson|1.9.08 @ 3:12AM|#
Basically, I would have hoped for RP getting 15% in NH, but 8% still spells blackmail to the neocons: Get with Ron Paul's domestic program of small government and more civil liberties...or we will vote against you in the general.
alan|1.9.08 @ 3:13AM|#
Tell that to my uncle who had schnapps forced down his
throat in Germany for being American...and this was before the wall
was taken down.
I knew a guy who got the shit beat out of him by two German cops
for no other reason than being a US soldier. It took the
intervention of the staff of our state's very power senator at that
time, a guy that pretty much scared the hell out of every body
(okay, his initials, J.H.) before the cops were punished for the
deed.
AFAIK, the incident was too common to be reported in the media.
Tagore Smith|1.9.08 @ 3:22AM|#
Instead of failing to elect RP why don't all you motherfuckers
start an anti-drug-war PAC. I've been watching this shit for years,
and the thing I wonder is, if congressmen are cheap, why don't we
all have one? I mean I could have bought one with the salary I used
to make (6 figures)- it would have been the same cost as a
babysitter for fuck's sake- amortize that shit and congressmen are
cheap.
So, let's put away the war differences and focus... instead of
arguing over the war let's focus on corruption. I'd be happy to
coordinate this, but.. I might steal your money. I'd love a fucking
villa in Greece- I would put it to such good use that you would
cheer me for it.
S.A. Miller|1.9.08 @ 3:33AM|#
(a tie for fourth looks likely)
At no point last night did a tie for fourth look likely.
With 96% reporting:
Giuliani: 20,054 (9%)
Paul: 17,831 (8%)
So much for a rEVOLvolution.
|1.9.08 @ 3:45AM|#
Tagore,
amen, motherfucker. I am a one issue voter (in the sense that my
top three are a pipe dream). One, end the drug war. Two end Iraq
and internationalism. Three, end income tax. In fact,I'll take any
one of them, and if it is accomplished I may consider something
I've never done: smoke a joint!
Jim Peterson|1.9.08 @ 3:57AM|#
What about prioritizing your right to say hello to a woman
without the government background checking you first? Even without
Hillary heading for the White House, the IMBRA law already takes
that right away. See www.online-dating-rights.com. Don't think the
law only stops you from meeting a Russian babe. If the Supreme
Court upholds this, it will quickly be applied to all dating sites
and even forums like this.
End the drug war as a higher priority? Does one love drugs more
than women?
Dave T|1.9.08 @ 3:58AM|#
"I served in Germany and still live in Germany. We still have
the big base in Frankfurt. Most Europeans feel comfortable at the
base remains (there is still a fear that the Germans will rise
again)."
1. A lot of people around US military bases worldwide support the
bases being they benefit economically (with a few exceptions like,
say, Okinawa where they want us to leave).
2. Fear that the Germans will rise again? So we have to pay
billions of dollars to keep bases forever in Germany because
Europeans are ignorant/idiots? No thanks.
|1.9.08 @ 3:59AM|#
The prognosis at your workplace probably looked like that at mine: a bunch of essentially clueless voters, 'bless their hearts', that trust a 'gut feeling' more than voting records. So I guess most Americans feel that voting records are a Candidates decoy to what horoscopes or Biblical prophecy truly reveal! Sorry for the cynicism, but this cycle has exceeded Revelations, the last book in the NT for most Christians and Satan-fraternal Mormons.
|1.9.08 @ 4:43AM|#
So...Agreeing on Ron Paul's demise, who shall be the name we all
write in? I at least want to be on the same page. Fer chrissakes I
left it freaking blank the last time, undereducated college-grad
that I am.
I think we need a common write-in. Else all is lost. Fer chrissakes
people, wake up! Even a warped Ron Paul is better than the usual.
We're all 'kooks' in their books. I'll sign up for kook but I guess
if the Patriot Act is watching (maybe I should watch my job
instead.)
Disclosure: If I were concerned about high level-spying of my job
would I post this? Answer: no. The gov't doesn't dare just yet.
Next cycle. Don't know. But let's keep it on the safe side.
joe|1.9.08 @ 5:18AM|#
Paul should call it "Bush's Iraq Welfare War", at least we would see the defense contractor "welfare mothers" for their true colors. Besides so many in the media and the establishment can't pull away from the pacifier and bottle of a controlled outcome. Maybe the outcome could be the way the media companies report it, and maybe they are cheating, how would anyone know. Just because someone says something doesn't make it so. Maybe the people still don't even know what limited government means anymore since we have had the current hogging up space style government since the 60's. I've voted since 1992, does that mean I'm a youth voter? I'm fed up with the FED, Nanny State and Corporate State con job. We as a society should demand better and smaller government, instead of always choosing two lying jerks every year. Why are we letting fools run the ship, fools that get us into wars and deficit spending, taxing us and our childrens' future? Do people have such a cynical attitude that another way maybe not even possible to be imagined, I think they are unable to articulate why they feel cynical, they think the media might be their friends and can't imagine a lying politician since they themselves wouldn't do such a thing. They are unaware of who really maybe working against them, especially the young. In fact I would bet that most young people vote for candidates that their friends and family mention as "possible", it's the people in their lives that they trust that are cynical and willing shill for cynicism that ruin it for everybody. Another way maybe possible, today, not in some distant far off fantasy. As a parent I can't imagine a welfare state for my children, but why are the rest of the general public so willing to socially dictate to me a way, yet so unwilling to even hear my POV. There are some very depressed and selfish people that need a welfare state and a corporate welfare state to thrive so they can continue to keep down me and future generations. How could he get such large myspace numbers and then no vote results equal such numbers? Obama gets such, so I have to wonder that manipulation maybe apparently going on, It wouldn't surprise me, since when did such stuff not take place.
|1.9.08 @ 5:30AM|#
I used to hang and watch a lot of shit- for some reason I was
trusted by some badasses. I remember the first time I saw someone
get shot over drugs (in the ass, no less). I said "That was wrong,
man"- the shooter was like. "Nope, had to do it... he sits down
when I say he sits down" (the bullet only creased the buttocks of
the shootee).
I remembered that later, after seeing a corpse or two, and some 12
year old prostitutes... called the cops on that one, and learned
how dumb that was- I was stupid enough then to not realize that sex
slavery in Brooklyn is run by... well, I won't say it out loud.
Jim Peterson|1.9.08 @ 5:32AM|#
Most of the anti-war vote went to Hillary.
I don't need to see anyone respond "but that is insane, she voted
for the Iraq War".
The bottom line is that the anti-war vote went to Hillary
Clinton.
That should tell the RP campaign staff all they need to know to
switch direction toward slamming Clinton and McCain for Internet
regulation and regulating pornography, etc.
Ron Paul would be heading for nomination now if his foreign policy
was into severe base-cutting but "left things on the table"
including at least the air base in Germany (one or two out of 300
foreign bases).
He could still talk about finding better ways to get along with
Muslims than war.
When you say that you want 300 out of 300 bases cut, you are an
extremist pure and simple.
The NH Republican voters made that clear.
|1.9.08 @ 6:39AM|#
"Ron Paul would be heading for nomination now if his foreign
policy was into severe base-cutting but "left things on the table"
including at least the air base in Germany (one or two out of 300
foreign bases)."
Ron Paul might be headed for the nomination if John, Huck, Rudy,
and Fred were caught making bukakke with each other, while Mitt
took snapshots. Even then, Mitt would be the favorite.
Where do these fantasies come from? RP never had a shot at the
nomination- his candidacy is only useful if it can be made useful
despite not being competitive.
|1.9.08 @ 7:06AM|#
German politicians, particularly on the left can get huge traction by bashing the USA during election time. Schroeder did it a few years ago and it played a major part in his re-election.
Eric Dondero|1.9.08 @ 7:22AM|#
Mr. Taylor, thank you kindly for your remarks. Let's be friends
here on out. I used to hate Ali, but then we agreed to be just
friendly advesaries; has worked out great for the both us us.
Semper Fi, back at ya!
Eric Dondero|1.9.08 @ 7:24AM|#
Who authored the Ron Paul Newsletters?
As you can imagine my phone was ringing off the hook last night,
and email box flooded with requests from reporters.
Two of them were from Reason at the highest of levels.
I spent an hour on the phone with the two Reason reporters/editors.
I chose to give them the exclusive over other NY/Beltway
media.
I think it's best that we wait for Reason to break the story. My
bet is sometime today.
Eric Dondero|1.9.08 @ 7:28AM|#
I have released one bit of information, but it is only a small
portion of the overall story. I will tell you all this, no offense
intended, so many of who are completely ignorant and uninformed
about Ron Paul and his inner operation. You get some things right,
but you only scratch the surface.
Major players, many of whom are in the Houston area, are let out of
your story-line.
Many of the people who were behind the production and editing of
those Newsletters are right here in Houston.
As for who was the main "ghostwriter"?
You have gotten that one correct.
Late last night I posted a paragraph from the now defunct American
Libertarian magazine from the late 1980s, that answers that
question.
It's up right now at www.libertarianrepublican.blogspot.com
|1.9.08 @ 7:29AM|#
U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
Every citizen owes $30,266, and growing
This can't continue!
If Ron Paul isn't given a chance to stop this who will.
Eric Dondero|1.9.08 @ 7:33AM|#
One thing I need to say.
A major media source on this story went down two very wrong paths
originally, and were about to unintenionally smear two very fine
libertarians; one in DC and another in California.
Ironically, the one in California was about to be smeared because
of mistaken identity. His first name was the same as the guy they
intended to get.
I completely steered them away from these two folks, strongly and
forcefully.
Reason editors know the names of the two individuals, and it's up
to Reason whether they wish to mention that aspect of the
story.
And I don't mean to undermine the reporter with the story himself.
He simply had mistaken identities early on in one case, in the
other, he mis-read the polite intentions of a very well-committed
longtime libertarian activist.
I set him straight on both fronts. And he was thankful for it. It
made the story clearer and more accurate.
BTW, IMHO, the story is 100% accurate overall. It is completely
consistent with everything I observed during my 12 year tenure with
Ron Paul.
Eric Dondero|1.9.08 @ 7:43AM|#
Here's another link that should answer a lot of y'all's
questions:
http://newmediajournal.us/guest/e_dondero/2008/01082008.htm
|1.9.08 @ 8:18AM|#
The biggest lesson of this campaign: Paul supporters aren't as organized as they think. Yes: they can raise a buttload of money, but that's about it, in terms of real-life, nuts and bolts campaigning.
|1.9.08 @ 8:23AM|#
Thanks Eric. Without your help, who knows how many more lies Paul would have told?
|1.9.08 @ 8:29AM|#
I don't know much about you, Dondero, but my gut instinct is
that you are a self-aggrandizing little political weasel.
Hey, you have every right to quit (or get fired) from your job as
Paul's professional political operative. I think it's classless to
take the confidence Paul had in your for years and use it for some
marginal political advantage. There is a smell, a taint, about
you... the same odor I get from fringe nutballs like North or
Rockwell. Underneath all of the rhetoric and bombast and professed
love of America, there's always an angle. It usually involves
selling something.
By the way, I'm not a Ron Paul fan and I always thought the
"revolution" would end badly. Paul may be a kook who ran an odious
newsletter. He may be a closet racist. But at the end of the day, I
find you the more contemptible character.
|1.9.08 @ 8:53AM|#
NOW we know why CATO kept its distance from Ron Paul....
I'm pretty confident that CATO knew about Paul's old associations.
I've noticed that CATO seems to be very wise about when to speak
and when to stand in the shadows. Not sure who is in charge of
that, but he does a good job.
Did you notice how after 9/11, when everyone was weighing in, CATO
kept quiet. Their few comments on the subject were measured and
terse.
CATO knows, and I think that everyone here knows, that those
comments were not Ron Paul's and that he is pretty darn close to
being one of us.
But that's just the problem if you're going to play politics inside
of Washington. This is why the mainsteam candidates seem so hollow.
You have to measure every word and be too careful with whom you
associate -- even casually. (That and all the crooked favors you
have to do.)
I wonder if LRC now wishes that they had stayed tax exempt.
BTR
Jerry|1.9.08 @ 8:58AM|#
Dondero, you should come with direct evidence about who wrote what, where and when, or forever hold your peace. Nobody is interested in the pointing out of circumstantial mambo jambo.
Fluffy|1.9.08 @ 9:07AM|#
Did you notice how after 9/11, when everyone was weighing
in, CATO kept quiet.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold your horses.
If Paul's a racist, CATO was smart to avoid him. True.
But everyone who failed to speak up in the hysteria following 9/11
is a fucking coward. To a certain extent, that includes me.
You really can't compare "Avoid getting entangled with guy whose
dark past comes back to destroy him" with "Avoid leading the
opposition to bad and destructive policies because people would be
mad at you".
|1.9.08 @ 9:25AM|#
CATO knows, and I think that everyone here knows, that those
comments were not Ron Paul's and that he is pretty darn close to
being one of us.
Interestingly enough, a quick perusal of the morning news says this
story has gone nowhere. There's one or two obscure mentions, but so
far, the only media that's discussed it at length has been Hit
& Run. The news stories on Paul haven't mentioned it at
all.
Not sure what to make of that. Maybe it's not as big of a deal as
we thought?
|1.9.08 @ 9:26AM|#
Mr. Dondero,
Thanks for your gracious reply. And thank you, despite your clear
non-support for your former employer's bid for the Republican
nomination, for sharing what you know about who actually wrote the
offensive words in the newsletters with Paul's name on them.
It's clear even to those of us who support(ed) Paul that he has
some major failings. But, even so, he shouldn't be tarred as a an
"anti-Semite" and a "racist" if he is not. That you are willing to
tell both the good and the bad about him speaks well of you -- and
should give you more credibility in the eyes of Paul partisans, or
other libertarians. Lamentably, it likely won't.
|1.9.08 @ 9:33AM|#
Ed Crane at Cato was feuding with Murray Rothbard since early 1980s. Murray climbed in bed with Lew Rockwell. So Ed has no love lost for Rockwell, who is good buddies with RP.
|1.9.08 @ 9:33AM|#
8% for Paul in NH is dismal. The campaign is dead, I don't see
any way he'll be able to get a double digit finish in any state
now.
The racism is definitely a problem. I've been a big Paul supporter
up until now. I could have given another $1200 or so to his
campaign (and even more outside his campaign). But I won't. I will
keep the stickers and sign on my car, but I won't give more money
or knock on doors or any of the other things I might have done.
Radley
Balko lays out my reasoning better than I could.
There are events that could transpire to get me back in it (Paul
addressing the issue in a thorough and satisfactory manner) but for
now my interest in PAUL 2008 is cool.
|1.9.08 @ 9:34AM|#
It's sad to see that in this day and aged, a biased reporter can dig up smears and affect a major political movement like that. Oh for the days when you could lend your name to a series of racist, anti-semitic, homophobic and conspiratorial newsletters for several decades and decent men and women would realize it was completely inapporpriate to hold you accountable for anything stated therein that happened to be politically damaging at the moment. I mean, the man put out a non-denial denial and said he likes MLK! That's certainly enough to make it completely inappropriate to ask him questions about things that may or may not have been said under his byline several thousand times
|1.9.08 @ 9:55AM|#
In 1964, Goldwater was creamed (37%) by LBJ.
Young conservatives were crushed and demoralized. Yet the
conservative movement picked itself up and eventually won (and
then, of course, proceeded to blow it). Libertarians have to
realize that changing the American mind - which currently favors
the most popular Santa Claus in an election - is going to take
decades. Libertarians need a grassroots educational and activist
movement (and probably non-political at this time)to
counter Santa Claus, and show why socialism is neither workable or
just. Do you want to roll up your sleeves and work, or just bitch
about the sheeple?
|1.9.08 @ 10:03AM|#
"I would sooner be tarred and feathered myself than see a
pro-feminist, big government liberal-loving traitor like John
McCain become US president."
Wow. I never knew pro-feminism had that kind of motivating power.
To me, this reads like, "Minority hating, war mongering, chocolate
eating, Nazi." One of these things does not belong ...
Nutter|1.9.08 @ 10:03AM|#
From looking at Dondero's blog I see he's discovered another great "libertarian", Peter King, who's only accomplishment is supporting IRA thugs in their terror campaigns.
ed|1.9.08 @ 10:52AM|#
Tempest in a teapot. The campaign was dead on arrival anyway. This last episode is the little flower you toss on the grave after all the dirt has been thrown in.
|1.9.08 @ 11:35AM|#
it's not about the campaign. It's about spreading libertarian ideas and no matter Paul's failings, libertarian ideas have spread more in the last year than in the last 20.
|1.9.08 @ 1:40PM|#
Pig,
I don't think its the big deal a lot of people on here think it is.
Beltway Libertarians have a somewhat skewed perspective influenced
by the PC madness that infects anybody who lives in DC. In the real
world people have kooky friends. They have slightly racist friends.
As long as the person in question isn't kooky or racist, who cares?
Only in DC could a guy having a few eccentric friends be more of a
scandal than advocating preemptive war.
As far as where we go from here, I think what Iowa and NH tell us
is that the traditional tactics are only going to get us 10% of the
GOP vote. That's impressive as hell on the one hand, but not going
to get us the win. So with nothing to lose, I think Ron needs to
dump the traditional campaign and use the remaining cash on an
unconventional, Ron Paul unleashed type campaign. The playing up
Conservative points hasn't worked, so might as well run as the true
libertarian that he is. We can't win, so we might as well make some
noise and have some fun.
Eric|1.9.08 @ 4:06PM|#
U4prez.com has been pretty close with most of the other
predictions by their members. So I do find it odd that that he gets
such little coverage in the mainstream.
The link for uprez. You have to
go to national rankings and he is first. among republicans and Paul
seems to be the one most candidates prefer. My question is, what
does he do with all his campaign money. Never seen an ad.
|1.9.08 @ 6:55PM|#
This may be of interest:
http://www.product-reviews.net/2008/01/09/new-hampshire-vote-fraud-confirmed-ron-paul-votes-not-counted/
This may explain why Ron Paul got less votes than expected and why
Barack Obama's results were way out of sink with polls.
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