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How I Learned to Hate Immigrants
Wow, Rudy
Giuliani's
moving right on immigration so fast he's getting friction
burns.
In an interview for the new book “Meet the Next President,” Giuliani lamented that the Immigration and Naturalization Service deported only 700 to 1,500 of the city’s 400,000 aliens each year during his mayoralty. Giuliani said it was obvious the INS was not about to increase deportation “from 700 or 1,500 to 400,000.”
“If they could, I would have turned all the people over. It would have helped me. I would have had a smaller population. I would have had fewer problems,” the Republican presidential candidate told The Examiner in an interview. “But the practical reality was, they were going to make an infinitesimal, statistically insignificant contribution to the problem. I was stuck with it. And no matter what their promises, they weren’t going to do anything about it.”
So was Giuliani just lying when, in 1998, he poured his heart out about the plights of NYC illegal immigrants?
We saw the Federal Immigration Law for what it was: an imminent threat to the nation. We understood that if New York City -- a city that was built and continues to be built by the energy, drive and enthusiasm of immigrants -- if New York City didn't speak up, we couldn't expect anyone else to.
After all, our most recognizable monument -- the Statue of Liberty -- is synonymous with both New York City and the process of immigration. Immigration is absolutely intrinsic to what New York City is. It was, therefore, incumbent upon us to take the lead and make a difference.
That's why over the last two years New York City joined together with groups across the country like LULAC and others. In the face of tremendous opposition, we raised the public discourse from one that was couched in fear and irrationality to one rooted in the facts. We helped to bring the country to a stronger and fuller understanding of the role of immigrants and the contributions that they make to society.
This was after he'd been re-elected mayor, when he was pondering a Senate race. If he really wanted to purge the city of illegal immigrants, or even to make the city comply with federal law, wouldn't he have said so?
|12.11.07 @ 9:07AM|#
"Hey, the INS won't deport all of our brown people. What should
we do?"
"Well, sir, you could try throwing all the black people in
jail."
"Good idea, Bernie."
Episiarch|12.11.07 @ 9:10AM|#
Rudy doesn't hate immigrants. He hates people who don't defer to authority. HIS authority. So he hates a lot of people.
Dennis|12.11.07 @ 9:16AM|#
I think of all the candidates in the race, Rudy disgusts me
most. I disagree with many of the positions he took as mayor, and
the fact that he has flipped on many of them now just makes him
seem insincere.
He also has completely and shamelessly switched course on many of
those positions that I did actually agree with.
What a panderer.
|12.11.07 @ 9:22AM|#
Open immigration, with proper processing for disease and criminal record would be ideal with one caveat; if we didn't have the welfare state and federal mandates imposed upon states. Even Friedman pointed this out (it's buried in an interview with Charlie Rose). I understand the Reason's staff aversion to limiting the free flow of people, but conditions need to change before this is feasible.
|12.11.07 @ 9:37AM|#
"Good idea, Bernie."
Wow, mike, that was rilly, rilly hilarious because it was so damned
clever.
NY
City's "Most Wanted" list.
NY State's "Most
Wanted" list.
|12.11.07 @ 9:42AM|#
Andrew C,
I belive Thomas Knapp calls that approach
Stockholm Libertarianism.
Or, on preview, what joe said.
Anon
|12.11.07 @ 9:43AM|#
Andrew,
If you want to wait until thewelfare state goes away while
preventing it from collapsing - you'll be waiting a long
time.
The welfare state will only go away when it collapses in a tsunami
of economic crisis. While preventing immigrants from arriving here
could, perhaps, delay the crisis, in the end that is no moral
justification to prevent them from doing business with
Americans.
|12.11.07 @ 9:46AM|#
If they could, I would have turned all the people over. It
would have helped me. I would have had a smaller population. I
would have had fewer problems
If there is a man who has a problem, just kill him. No man, no
problem.
T|12.11.07 @ 9:47AM|#
This just in: politician reverses strongly held position in
order to win election.
Insert actual names as necessary, rinse, repeat.
|12.11.07 @ 9:50AM|#
I think of all the candidates in the race, Rudy disgusts me
most.
I find him supremely unsettling. He carries all the indications of
being both a thoroughgoing authoritarian and the kind of
shutter-happy propagandist who'd commit minor atrocities for a
photo-op.
"Freedom," he once said. "Means the willingness of every human
being to defer to lawful authority." Hey, Rudy - invoking Orwell is
only funny when it's a joke.
He once described being a prosecutor as an "ideal job for an
idealistic man," since you "never have to do the wrong thing."
Meaning: there is no case in which moral right and the law ever
disagree. In Rudy's world, that would be an analytic
contradiction.
Moreover, being a guy with zero experience fighting terrorism but
lots of experience allocating terror "readiness" funds, I fully
expect him to justify himself as a security czar by citing the
amount of money he's given to local police departments, to
the DEA, to the INS - and then pass this off as real progress
toward securing America. Drug arrests will stand in for terror
plots foiled - as proof of how "ready" we are.
I am convinced that as president, Giuliani would greatly expand the
security state, weaken civil liberties, oversee an era of
unprecedented police aggression and waste a mountain of money -
all, essentially, in order to look like a tough guy in the
press.
|12.11.07 @ 9:53AM|#
Andrew C,
I agree with you, but there's a lot of middle ground between open
immigration and "let's kick out everybody that's here illegally by
any means necessary."
|12.11.07 @ 9:54AM|#
Wow, Rudy Giuliani's moving right on immigration so fast
he's getting friction burns.
If those burns are on his knees, maybe he can call
DONDEROOOOOOOOOOOOO! for treatment advice. Or just look down and
ask him.
|12.11.07 @ 9:54AM|#
A bit down the page, we have a Huckabee thread where everyone's saying Huckabee is the worst GOP candidate. It seems like every time a story comes out about a candidate, he immediately becomes the worst. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, I guess.
|12.11.07 @ 9:57AM|#
"How I Learned to Hate Immigrants"
Some people seem to just love the word "hate"--it's like
their favorite word! They use to spice everything up, like paprika
or something.
This one hates this, that one hates that. Here a "hater" there a
"hater" everywhere a...
Me? I don't see any use for it.
|12.11.07 @ 9:58AM|#
In a pond full of scum, he is the scummiest.
What a sickening display today's GOP has become.
|12.11.07 @ 10:03AM|#
I'm starting to wonder if the primaries are just a filtering
process to homogenize all the candidates. I mean, who holds
differentiating positions from anyone else, except Ron Paul.
(Ok, McCain is against torture, but don't get me started on
that).
Everyone's competing to be the roundest peg for the round
hole...
paulie|12.11.07 @ 10:05AM|#
A bit down the page, we have a Huckabee thread where
everyone's saying Huckabee is the worst GOP candidate. It seems
like every time a story comes out about a candidate, he immediately
becomes the worst. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, I
guess.
In the fairytale, the king had twelve beautiful daughters, each
more beautiful the next. It's sort of like that, but different.
|12.11.07 @ 10:05AM|#
When Rudi Guiliani was Mayor, two white undercover cops
approached a black man and asked if he wanted to buy drugs. The man
was a security guard at his post, and apparently didn't take too
kindly to a couple of white guys making such an assumption about
him and attempting to commit a crime where he was on guard.
And altercation ensued, and the cops end up shooting and killing
him.
Rudy Guiliani doesn't just defend the cops - he attacks the victim.
He goes so far as to release the guy's sealed juvenile court
record.
When asked about the impropriety of releasing those records, Rudy
says that since the guy is dead, he doesn't have privacy
rights.
That's Rudolph Guiliani. That's who he is.
paulie|12.11.07 @ 10:15AM|#
Who's worst?
Il Douche the
Ghoul is certainly a
contender.
After all,
freedom isn't free.
|12.11.07 @ 10:18AM|#
crimethink,
I would venture to say that different people have different
opinions on who they like the least.
I still think Huckabee is more dangerous than Giuliani, but they're
both a couple of shits.
With a confrontational guy like Rudy, he should ignite stronger
opposition to his more dangerous proposals.
Huckabee could lull the opposition into a religious trance and get
a lot more bullshit through. He's kind of creepy, like a priest who
seems like a child molester who they can't quite pin it on.
At the very least, we don't have the Theocracy danger with Rudy
than we would with HuckaFuck.
That being said, I'd like to reiterate that I am by no means saying
I like Rudy. They're both in the top five percentile in
asshat-ery...
paulie|12.11.07 @ 10:19AM|#
Ok, McCain is against torture, but don't get me started on
that
Don't believe the hype.
The
Manchurian candidate is not really that against torture.
|12.11.07 @ 10:29AM|#
If only Rudy hadn't abandoned the Street Crimes Unit, he could have legally murdered a couple thousand more West African street entrepreneurs.
|12.11.07 @ 10:58AM|#
This one hates this, that one hates that. Here a "hater"
there a "hater" everywhere a...
Me? I don't see any use for it.
I HATE people who don't hate!
Squishy relativists every one.
massadvj|12.11.07 @ 10:59AM|#
Maybe people ought to step back for a brief second and take a
good whiff of reality. The USA is a socialist state that has
succumbed to the deficiencies envisioned by De Toqueville and
others at the founding. Namely, that once a majority gets hold of
the power of the purse, property rights will be so compromised that
the system will become little more than a tyranny of the majority.
That is precisely what has happened.
We may wish for a system of protected rights, stable money and
small, efficient government. But short of a revolution, that simply
is not going to happen.
So the question is, given the socialist cesspool that is America,
who is best equipped to manage it with some measure of efficiency?
I contend that of all the candidates for president, Giuliani has
had the most experience and success managing a cesspool, and by
that measure he is the most qualified to be president.
Yes, he overreaches. But he overreaches in areas that are of less
concern to me than the areas where HRC will overreach. Personally,
given a choice between having to live in a system like Singapore
versus one like France, I prefer Singapore. That is the choice we
are confronted with at the moment.
|12.11.07 @ 11:01AM|#
When asked about the impropriety of releasing those records,
Rudy says that since the guy is dead, he doesn't have privacy
rights.
joe, I believe you. Do you have a link handy? Pretty please?
|12.11.07 @ 11:44AM|#
Personally, given a choice between having to live in a
system like Singapore versus one like France, I prefer
Singapore.
In this false dichotomy, I choose France.
|12.11.07 @ 12:14PM|#
massadvj wrote:
"The USA is a socialist state"
What?
Do you know what "socialist state" is?
Do you have ANY idea?
As an immigrant from former Soviet Union I have a right to
answer:
You have no clue.
|12.11.07 @ 12:14PM|#
Personally, given a choice between having to live in a
system like Singapore versus one like France, I prefer
Singapore.
Since my actual choice is which hole to punch -- with the
Singapore/France false dichotomy's being decided by 70 million
other people -- I'll choose that "system of protected rights,
stable money and small, efficient government" you hinted at, thank
you very much.
|12.11.07 @ 12:36PM|#
Other than Ron Paul, the only candidate I support (from either party) is None of the Above.
|12.11.07 @ 12:37PM|#
Massadvj,
you are essentially saying we should all roll over. I reject that
with every fiber of my being.
|12.11.07 @ 12:40PM|#
Oh, and De toqueville predicted that the tyranny of the majority and the governments intrusion into the smallest facets of everyday life would come about because of a sort of complacency of the people.
Clemsonuee|12.11.07 @ 12:46PM|#
Both in the top 5%?
I think you underestimate, they are top 2% easy. I'm pretty sure
they are both card-carrying members of asshat Mensa.
|12.11.07 @ 12:49PM|#
Giuliani:
"I would have had a smaller population. I would have had fewer
problems"
What is his first name? Adolph?
Oh, I am sorry - Rudolph...
The Corporatism Coalition|12.11.07 @ 1:36PM|#
Ruuudy's comments were distressing to read. Up with
Reason!
P.S. Don't worry. Ruuudy knows the
score, if you know what I mean.
|12.11.07 @ 2:12PM|#
". . . I would have had a smaller population. I would have had
fewer problems. . . "
That part of the article demonstrates the major problem with
politicians today.
I offer this piece of advice to Giuliani -
Listen up shitbag. Its not your problem to solve, its the problem
of all the New Yorkers. Let them solve it themselves, Humans have
only been dealing with migration for OH ABOUT ALL OF OUR
HISTORY!
|12.11.07 @ 2:20PM|#
So it's just a temporary measure, until the state withers
away.
Got it.
LOL. joe wins the thread!
|12.11.07 @ 2:41PM|#
"What is his first name? Adolph?
Oh, I am sorry - Rudolph..."
I've never made that connection. Rudolph for Adolph and
Hitlery.
Skip|12.11.07 @ 2:49PM|#
"How I Learned to Hate Immigrants"
Did he actually use the word "hate"? Man, what shitty writing.
|12.11.07 @ 2:52PM|#
Caption contest.
"Damn, I forgot my toupe."
Or "That fucking Romney is giving me a splitting headache."
|12.11.07 @ 3:00PM|#
J sub D | December 11, 2007, 10:58am | #
This one hates this, that one hates that. Here a "hater" there a "hater" everywhere a...
Me? I don't see any use for it.
I HATE people who don't hate!
Squishy relativists every one.
It's cool to hate!!
|12.11.07 @ 4:32PM|#
"""Rudy doesn't hate immigrants. He hates people who don't defer
to authority. HIS authority. So he hates a lot of people."""
That's it in a nutshell. People who don't defer to authority is
anti-freedom in his book.
"""We may wish for a system of protected rights, stable money and
small, efficient government. But short of a revolution, that simply
is not going to happen."""
That smells.
"""Massadvj,
""""you are essentially saying we should all roll over. I reject
that with every fiber of my being.""""""
I disagree, what he's implying that if you're not going to have a
revolution, you're (your words) rolling over. Maybe the founding
fathers would agree.
Joel|12.11.07 @ 4:33PM|#
A bit down the page, we have a Huckabee thread where
everyone's saying Huckabee is the worst GOP candidate. It seems
like every time a story comes out about a candidate, he immediately
becomes the worst. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, I
guess.
Actually, they're all the worst candidate.
It's like being pecked to death by ducks, listening to this pack of
losers. Ducks with the power of the state.
|12.11.07 @ 4:37PM|#
captions contest - how about:
Kerik's going to be my running mate?!?! Son of a....
""""I've never made that connection. Rudolph for Adolph and
Hitlery.""""
LOL!!! They should run together, the Rudolph Hitlery ticket.
Rhywun|12.11.07 @ 4:39PM|#
In this false dichotomy, I choose France.
C'mon... Singapore is economic freedom for the well-connected, big
brother and canings for everyone else. What's not to like?!
Rhywun|12.11.07 @ 4:44PM|#
The Mayor's office defended the release because the right to
privacy does not survive an individual's death. Giuliani also
pointed out that he only wanted to show that Dorismond was "no
altar boy." In fact, Dorismond had attended the same Catholic
school as Giuliani and had been an altar boy.
Caption contest: "D'oh!"
What a prick. I'll never defend that fuck again.
PS. I was living here at that time but I paid little attention to
this sort of news. Perhaps it was burnout.
|12.11.07 @ 6:23PM|#
Actually, they're all the worst candidate.
It's like being pecked to death by ducks, listening to this pack of
losers. Ducks with the power of the state.
Did someone say ducks? Cue the band!
THE LAST MAN NEARLY RUINED THIS PLACE,
HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT
IF YOU THINK THIS COUNTRY'S BAD OFF NOW
JUST WAIT 'TIL I GET THROUGH WITH IT
THE COUNTRY'S TAXES MUST BE FIXED
AND I KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT
IF YOU THINK YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH NOW
JUST WAIT 'TIL I GET THROUGH WITH IT
green mamba|12.11.07 @ 8:39PM|#
Because everyone who wants to control illegal immigration does
so because they hate immigrants.
Similarly, all people who criticize Israeli policies are really
just Jew-haters.
Rhywun|12.11.07 @ 11:48PM|#
Because everyone who wants to control illegal immigration
does so because they hate immigrants.
Seems like the appropriate time to state an argument I just made on
another site: the only rational way to decrease illegal
immigration, without either wrecking the economy or turning America
into a papers-please nightmare, is to increase legal
immigration. I don't hear any tough-on-illegals types making this
argument.
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