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There's a Democratic Debate Happening Right Now
It's on NPR, and it started at 2, and thus far the Democratic candidates are saying nothing surprising, although the downy softness of the radio format makes the attacks seem a little blunter. The debate about the Kyl-Lieberman Iran resolution, so boiling hot in previous debates, is pretty substantive, apart from the predictable invective of John Edwards.
Clinton: I supported the resolution as part of diplomacy with Iran. We need carrots and sticks: That was a stick. Iran changed its behavior because of the resolution..
Biden: Malarky. Ain't a damn thing changed.
Obama: We installed a government with ties to Iran: The idea that Iran wouldn't have influence is ludicrous.
Gravel (he's back!): Why are we mad at Iran for helping out Hezbollah and Hamas? They're allowed to do that if they want to.
More Clinton: "I was the first of anyone at this table to speak against Bush taking us to war with Iran."
|12.4.07 @ 2:41PM|#
I can barely stay awake for the debates on TV, and that's
probably because of all the flashing lights and colors.
A debate on NPR? Just thinking about it makes me yawn out
loud.
Wait a minute... YOL?
|12.4.07 @ 2:48PM|#
I predict that the moderator at NPR won't interrupt the
candidates as they debate their health plans in order to steer the
discussion back to what Obama thinks about what Edwards said about
what Hillary said to the press about something Obama said about
what she said.
Naw, it's not like NPR is The Most Trusted Name in News.
Geotpf|12.4.07 @ 2:53PM|#
I'm sure he's paraphrasing, although it would be interesting to see what Biden actually said. He's clearly the best wordsmith of this election cycle, which is amazing, since maybe six months ago he was known for tripping over his own tongue. He's not going to win, but he's found his groove and easily is the canidate (from either party) most at ease with himself up on a debate stage. I'm not sure how he did it. I've heard it suggested that since MBNA got bought out by BoA, he no longer has to suck up to them as much (they are one of the major employers in the small state of Deleware which he represents), so he's been able to kick back and relax.
javier|12.4.07 @ 2:54PM|#
richardson - not direct quote .. "if you manipulate your currency to the tune of 40% it is adversarial." How is it adversarial? I say thank you. I think the Dems need to read "What is money" by bastiat.
avraam jack|12.4.07 @ 2:54PM|#
CLINTON WILL SINK THE DEMOCRATS
.
It is possible that Senator Clinton is the best candidate. However,
even though many may like the policies that Senator Clinton
proposes, they should also consider her record, just as Senator
Clinton insists.
.
The last Clinton Administration, when faced with the fact that
protection rackets where assaulting, torturing and murdering people
with poison and radiation, chose to avoid its responsibilities to
incarcerate the criminals and to protect the citizenry.
.
Instead, they made a deal with the criminal gang stalker protection
rackets to leave them alone and to consequently abandon the
citizenry.
.
Do we want a President who sells out the citizenry for votes?
.
Do we want a President who sends a "crime does pay" message to
society?
.
Would you vote for a President who signed nonaggression deals with
the KKKlan or the Nazi party? Gangs that torture with poison and
radiation are much like the KKKlan and Nazi Party.
.
We do not need a sellout President. We need a principled leader
President.
.
If you are one of the few who do not know what the above refers to,
do a web search for "gang stalking" to see the tip of the dirtberg.
Please do it before you decide to reply to my post. Here let me
make it easy for you:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22gang+stalking%22.
.
|12.4.07 @ 3:04PM|#
The crazies are all over the Clintons, and have been since the
early 90s.
I don't mean right-wingers or anything: I mean actual crazy people.
People who move to Washington so they can hand out their
marginless, mimographed, double-sided, handwritten political tracts
at the Metro stations. People who hear aliens through their
fillings.
I was in DC in the early 90s. The crazies hated Bush the Elder
something fierce, but when Clinton came along, they dropped him
like a hot potato.
|12.4.07 @ 3:08PM|#
"The Crazies" also hated Reagan so much they shot him, tried to
convince people that he was the ruin of the nation, sold a bunch of
lies that Barry Goldwater was going to launch nuclear weapons the
day he took office ....
Blah, blah, blah.
I find it actually fun to hate the fuck out of Hillary, because
she's a loud-mouthed socialist twat. I mean it. She's no Democrat.
She's an outright socialist. So if "the crazies" can do anything to
knee-cap that bitch, I'm all for it.
|12.4.07 @ 3:16PM|#
gang stalking = rationalized paranoid schizophrenia
Paranoia is the egomaniacal delusion that other people think you're
important.
javier|12.4.07 @ 3:18PM|#
Jamie,
"She's no Democrat. She's an outright socialist"
Are you listening to the debate right now? Central planning is the
common theme. Current us policy is all about central planning
through arbitrary laws and regulation to achieve organization and
desired outcomes. It just so happens that at this point the
population doesn't like direct government ownership.
|12.4.07 @ 3:19PM|#
Tell us what you really think of Senator
Rodham-Clinton.
Let's just say I'd pull a Sam Kinison on her.
"My ideal date was to fuck a woman in the ass, cum on her back,
steal $40 out of her purse, climb out the window and never call her
again. Let her wake up sticky, broke and confused."
|12.4.07 @ 3:19PM|#
On economic policy, Hillary Clinton is the furthest to the right
of any Democrat in the race.
Someone could get several doctoral dissertations out of the thought
process of people who single her out as a socialist.
|12.4.07 @ 3:20PM|#
Central planning is the common theme.
Any time I hear any politician talk about "four-year plans," I shit
a little in my pants.
|12.4.07 @ 3:24PM|#
Yeah, joe
-- like that health-care plan of hers
-- railing against "big pharamaceuticals"
-- threatening to steal the profits of oil companies
-- threatening to roll back all of Bush's tax cuts
-- "it takes a village to raise a child"
If that's "right wing" among the Democrats, we need to nuke the DNC
now, and hope you're there giving blow jobs.
|12.4.07 @ 3:26PM|#
And a war-monger to boot.
God, Hillary, please slip on the ice and hit your head really hard
and be in a coma.
Shannon Love|12.4.07 @ 3:27PM|#
More Clinton: "I was the first of anyone at this table to
speak against Bush taking us to war with Iran."
If she becomes President that will come back to haunt her. I fear
that the leadership in Iran hears something different in that than
we do.
|12.4.07 @ 3:27PM|#
Although I am very libertarian, i am not afraid of another
clinton administration. Those who think of her as the boogeyman
probably listen to a lot of AM talk radio...
edit: what i mean is that i'm not more afraid of her than i am of
the Republican frontrunners.
Things weren't so bad under Bill Clinton. Then we elected Bush
partly because we thought he was a conservative and look what
happened.
The idea that democrat=more government, republican=less government
is just not believable anymore.
|12.4.07 @ 3:29PM|#
Are you the guy holding the Get a Brain, Morans! sign in the
picture?
Nope. Unlike you, I can spell. But that's because I work in the
private sector, where you're more or less required to be able to
spell.
|12.4.07 @ 3:31PM|#
Yeah, joe, confuse me for a red-stater.
That pretty much sums it up for me right there.
|12.4.07 @ 3:31PM|#
Be careful, joe's joke just went right over Jaime's head. You wouldn't want to get any on you.
|12.4.07 @ 3:33PM|#
It's easy for things to go over your head when you live your life in a defensive crouch.
|12.4.07 @ 3:33PM|#
No it didn't, sugarfree. I'm just making the point that joe can't spell worth a shit, just like the "moran" guy.
|12.4.07 @ 3:34PM|#
The idea that democrat=more government, republican=less
government is just not believable anymore.
With the exception of HRC, I kind of agree. But Hillary is a
big-gov girl through and through.
|12.4.07 @ 3:34PM|#
I love that fact that you exist, Jaimie.
If you didn't, I'd have to invent you.
joe, you were a government planner. The only thing of use that you
could invent is a unique way to take your own life.
robc|12.4.07 @ 3:35PM|#
joe,
Are we bringing fark cliches to H&R now? Im not sure that is a
good idea. But, if we do, Im putting slashies on all my
posts.
/And lolcat pics
|12.4.07 @ 3:37PM|#
The idea that democrat=more government, republican=less
government is just not believable anymore.
I wonder why
that is?
|12.4.07 @ 3:39PM|#
robc,
This place needs cat-macros! VM and I would plotz! And I could use
more exclamation points!!!
|12.4.07 @ 3:39PM|#
For
the uninitiated.
For extra-special wackiness, it's hosted on lonewacko.com.
Metalolz!
VM|12.4.07 @ 3:40PM|#
"I love that fact that you exist, Jaimie.
If you didn't, I'd have to invent you."
hier.
und da.
|12.4.07 @ 3:40PM|#
You're right, robc. No more worn-out internet cliches.
For my part, I hereby pledge to stop posting under the name "Jaimie
Kelly," as the frothing wingnut warblogger fantasising about the
deaths of liberals was a cliche four years ago.
|12.4.07 @ 3:41PM|#
Iran changed its behavior in 2003, before Clinton voted in
2007?
Does she really think we're that retarded?
|12.4.07 @ 3:43PM|#
fantasising (SIC) about the deaths of
liberals
and mmmm, that's good fantasizin'!
|12.4.07 @ 3:47PM|#
I can always proof my comments if I fee like it, Jamie.
Whereas you will always have to be Jamie Kelly.
|12.4.07 @ 3:47PM|#
I'm going to fucking kill that therapy cat and spread its guts all over my penis and masturbate to the thought of me killing that fucking therapy cat.
|12.4.07 @ 3:49PM|#
Whoa. Jamie sounds like he's been a little... repressed.
*slowly backs away*
Steady there, boy. Steady.
|12.4.07 @ 3:49PM|#
No (sic) required when using British spellings.
joe ain't no Brit. I'd peg him for Sea of Tranquilitian.
|12.4.07 @ 3:49PM|#
[Shaking Head] Children, children. This is a blog, not a spelling bee, not a grammar competition, a friggin' blog. Hell, I'm suck a forgiving reader, I gloss over misspelled words and go right to the content. Try it sometimes. For me?
|12.4.07 @ 3:53PM|#
I'm going to fucking kill that middle-finger cat and spread its guts all over my penis and masturbate to the thought of me killing that fucking middle-finger cat.
rho|12.4.07 @ 3:55PM|#
A debate on NPR? Just thinking about it makes me yawn out
loud.
It may be boring. I don't think so, but I can see how it might be
to some.
However, it is so ridiculously better than every televised debate
it is embarrassing. It's too bad that Bill Richardson wasn't able
to make it, I think he would have made some serious in-roads.
Biden and Dodd sound a lot better here than elsewhere.
If you want to play a drinking game, do a Jager shot every time
Hillary says "obviously".
|12.4.07 @ 3:55PM|#
Jamie, yes, I know. I was just sayin' to be sayin'. It's still
not wrong. Technically. And you were being... technical.
Which, as J sub D pointed out so cogently, is not the point.
Golly, it does look awfully Farkish in here today.
/slashie for good measure
|12.4.07 @ 3:58PM|#
If you want to play a drinking game, do a Jager shot every
time Hillary says "obviously".
Whewsh! Thas was a good [hic] debate . I fink I show watch, er...
lishen to them more offin... [hic]
|12.4.07 @ 4:02PM|#
I think Jamie should start writing an advice column.
Dear Jamie,
I'm a cat owner, and I recently brought an adorable little kitten
into my home. Now my older cat keeps urniating around the house.
Help! I've had him since I was in school, and I can't bear to get
rid of him.
Edith in Long Island
Dear Edith,
I fucking hate you with the incadenscent rage of a thousand dying
suns. I hope you fucking choke. Fucking liberals love fucking cats,
just like the fucking Egyptians, who are fucking Muslims.
Not that a little pussy like you would ever notice. I could snap
your neck like a twig, you fucking liberal little shit!
|12.4.07 @ 4:05PM|#
I like interested cat.
And cat watching me masturbate.
Garcon, bring a bowl of milk, posthaste.
javier|12.4.07 @ 4:06PM|#
I think he is trying to ride RP coattails.
gravel shows up to a RP rally here
VM|12.4.07 @ 4:09PM|#
Kitteh is koncerned.
On the Other
Hand....
and
sorry about the problem with the milk.
Shannon Love|12.4.07 @ 4:10PM|#
I can't figure out if this thread as veered wildly off topic or is some kind of post modernist reinforcement of the parent post observations.
TLB|12.4.07 @ 4:21PM|#
Based on what I read here
(blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2007/12/live-blogging-t.html#more)
as of the date of this comment, it sounds like NPR is trying to be
as bad as CNN when it comes to DiscussingImmigration.
Compare those two questions with the ones I left for them in the
second comment here:
npr.org/blogs/news/2007/11/ask_the_candidates_immigration.html
For instance, compare these two to what NPR asked:
youtube.com/watch?v=Q_l4Lawj14A
youtube.com/watch?v=EiullH5jU1A
|12.4.07 @ 4:22PM|#
"On economic policy, Hillary Clinton is the furthest to the
right of any Democrat in the race."
The ADA rated her as liberal as any other Senator.
"Someone could get several doctoral dissertations out of the
thought process of people who single her out as a socialist.'
She always talks about government solutions, never about curtailing
government to allow the private sector to handle it.
rho|12.4.07 @ 4:58PM|#
Gravel's advocated the Fairtax before. As kooky former Senators go, Gravel isn't that kooky, though he's very former.
Dave T|12.4.07 @ 5:35PM|#
John Jackson: "It's time someone had the courage to stand up and
say: I'm against those things that everybody hates."
Jack Johnson: "Now, I respect my opponent. I think he's a good man.
But quite frankly, I agree with everything he just said."
|12.4.07 @ 5:53PM|#
See? Solitary wackjob's opinion is correct!!!
Do you mean "See? Solitarywackjob'sopinioniscorrect!!!"?
|12.4.07 @ 6:19PM|#
No, no, no, J sub D, you don't have enough random UPPERCASE LETTERS thrown in there.
|12.4.07 @ 6:45PM|#
Garcon, bring a bowl of milk, posthaste.
Ooh! Post haste is two words and should be italicized
because it's foreign! Facial JK! Total facial! Once again, it's
joe's law of teh internets.
|12.4.07 @ 6:53PM|#
Actually, posthaste (note: one word) is archaic English. Somewhat strange, perhaps, but hardly foreign.
|12.4.07 @ 7:16PM|#
No, no, no, J sub D, you don't have enough random UPPERCASE
LETTERS thrown in there.
Does this mean I'll be denied admission to WIP (Wacko Institute of
Paranoia)?
|12.4.07 @ 9:03PM|#
Obama would dig this one: http://www.myconfinedspace.com/2006/10/27/lets-do-coke/
crw|12.4.07 @ 11:15PM|#
Anyone notice how Robert Siegel kept pwning the hell out of
Edwards? Siegel was really doing a great job getting Edwards to
hoist himself on his own petard today. I especially liked the one
during the China exchange (paraphrased):
Edwards - (Usual pandering on bringing middle class blue collar
jobs back to America. Usual crap mill story)
Siegel - Senator Edwards, you're implying America can become a
major power in textiles again - an industry associated with low
wage emerging economies. No matter what we do, aren't textiles
obviously going to be pouring out of mills in low wage
countries...so this isn't what our economy should be specializing
in at this time?
Kolohe|12.5.07 @ 1:24AM|#
How am I supposed to be able to tell if anyone is wearing a pants suit if it's on the radio?
|12.5.07 @ 10:24AM|#
Rattlesnake Jake,
Your comments could be applied as well or moreso to all of the
candidates, except maybe Richardson, in the Democratic race.
Kucinich-Gravel-Edwards-Dodd-Biden-Obama-Richardson-Clinton is how
I'd rank them left-to-right. Maybe Richardson and Clinton's
policies average out to a tie.
And yet Clinton gets singled out, consistently, as if she
represents an extreme socialist ideology.
It's strange, it's personal, it's a consequence of the Mighty
Wurlitzer cranking up against her for the past decade and a half +,
and it demonstrates the degree to which personal animus has
replaced ideas of governance in the Republican mind.
Neu Mejican|12.5.07 @ 11:28AM|#
joe,
I think that is Clinton->Richardson, but it's a pretty thin
knife-edge that fits between their economics.
The fun trick would be to try and make that list with all of the
Republican candidates included.
Which republicans would fall to the left of which Democrats on
which issues?
The Libertarian Guy|12.5.07 @ 11:41AM|#
Gosh, I missed it. Did anything interesting happen?
BTW joe, why should Hillary have anything nice or praiseworthy said
about her? I don't need, nor ever HAVE needed, any talking-head to
tell me what she's about... I just observe her actions and words.
Tells me all I need to know.
BTW 2 did Edwards reiterate this assertion?
When asked what would happen if an individual decided they didn't
want healthcare Edwards said, "You don't get that choice."
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/11/edwards-weighs.html
Absolutely disgusting POV, in my opinion.
VM|12.5.07 @ 11:50AM|#
"I just observe her actions and words. Tells me all I need to
know."
I'd think that that's how most people arrive at opinions about
candidates. The rest is ego defense of the original position.
"Absolutely disgusting POV, in my opinion."
You've highlighted exactly one of Edwards's disgusting POVs!
Please, for the love of all that's decent, please, Sir, do not
proceed with the list!!!! (ARGH! BACK OF HEAD EXPLODES)
|12.5.07 @ 1:00PM|#
TLG,
BTW joe, why should Hillary have anything nice or praiseworthy
said about her?
Who said she should?
The Libertarian Guy|12.5.07 @ 4:51PM|#
Well, joe, it seems by my observations that Hillary is some kind
of Untouchable, and anyone who deigns to criticize her is either a
knuckle-dragging woman-hater or a capitalist pig.
VM, unfortunately a lot of people agree with Edwards. Socialistized
medicine is inevitable with that kind of public mindset.
I tell people this: I neither want, nor will accept, health care
from the government. Why should you expect me to pay for
yours?
BTW, I wasn't going to go on with the list, VM, that quote from
Johnny Haircut was all that needed to be said. Gag.
VM|12.5.07 @ 5:30PM|#
"BTW, I wasn't going to go on with the list"
phew...
falls down in thankful convulsions (that probably will lead to some
furious BATIN)
The Libertarian Guy|12.6.07 @ 10:41AM|#
Edwards' comment on health care reminds me of Hillary's recent
comment:
"This is the most successful domestic program in the history of the
United States," Clinton said to applause from seniors gathered in
Washington to push their policy agenda. "When I'm president,
privatization is off the table because it's not the answer to
anything."
The last sentence being, of course, a Freudian slip which shows how
she would govern if elected. A rare slip for the Hildabeast.
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