Paul's Progress

David Weigel | December 3, 2007

The ever-readable Matt Labash, whose nigh-Faustian literary skills were enough to make John Cox interesting, takes on the Ron Paul musical REVOLution in the current Weekly Standard. Paul's inspired "atrocious music," but Labash isn't too hard on them...

Perhaps the most talented Paul songwriter I've encountered is the Pittsburgh folkie named Daryl Fleming, of Daryl Fleming and the Public Domain. He sings with a pleasing tomcat rasp, and when reaching for the bigger notes, sounds like he should be twinning harmonies with The Band's Levon Helm. Fleming feels that limited government is underrepresented in rock and folk music. He's a far cry from dancing pizzas and seems a bit self-conscious about the company he's keeping. "I am not guilty by association," he emails of the grab bag of other Paul supporters. "The 9-11 Truthers, white supremacists, and assorted kooks (perhaps some of the other songwriters?) who support Ron Paul do not invalidate his message. Faulting RP (or me) for some of his non-sanctioned supporters is like blaming Jodie Foster for the shooting of Ronald Reagan."

Over the weekend Paul won the Virginia GOP straw poll with 38 percent of the vote, even after Sen. George Allen made a personal appeal for Fred Thompson.

Republican officials dismissed the poll's outcome, noting that Paul has been concentrating on winning straw polls all over the country.

"He brought people in here. What is more critical to look at is who finished second and third. That is a more true indicator of the feelings of the Republican Party of Virginia," said Tucker Watkins of Randolph in Charlotte County, a former 5th District GOP chairman.

And that Des Moines Register poll that shows Mike Huckabee surging into first place in Iowa shows Paul rising from 4 percent to 7 percent, tied with John McCain.

Comments

|12.3.07 @ 5:00PM|#

I just got a voice mail today from Ron Paul's wife. Lovely lady, and it was a short call and to the point.

Edward|12.3.07 @ 5:08PM|#

It isn't the kooks who support Ron Paul that invalidate his message; it's Ron Paul's kooky messages:

The Founding fathers envisioned a robust Christian nation.
The Constitution is replete with references to God.
Birthright citizenship confers citizenship on many (read Mexicans) who are diloyal to America.
Kooks love kooks.

Edward|12.3.07 @ 5:13PM|#

And btw, "kooks love kooks" also explains the Urkobold website. Unfunny cunt boils.

|12.3.07 @ 5:14PM|#

So now Ron Paul is busing people in? There is video of this event and there are no Ron Paul buses and probably never will be.

I love the spin of these people, It is more important to see who is 2nd and 3rd? Do you people really buy that?

Fact doesn't everyone try to win the straw poll? Ron paul has won most polls either online, text, or straw he dominates.

Keep playing the spin people we will see you in IA and NH

Minion of URKOBOLD|12.3.07 @ 5:16PM|#

Edward | December 3, 2007, 5:13pm | #
And btw, "kooks love kooks" also explains the Urkobold website. Unfunny cunt boils.

DAMMIT - IT'S ABSCESSED, RUNNY BOILS! GET IT RIGHT NEXT TIME.

(full confession: it's really fun lancing them with a darning needle that's been coated with lemon juice)

|12.3.07 @ 5:18PM|#

Edward,

I would like to comment on what you wrote, but I'm trying my best to even understand your post.

Are you trying to say those are Ron Paul's messages??

Episiarch|12.3.07 @ 5:20PM|#

What is more critical to look at is who finished second and third. That is a more true indicator of the feelings of the Republican Party of Virginia," said Tucker Watkins of Randolph in Charlotte County

This makes sense. So the guys who place second and third in the Olympics are the real gold-medal winners? It's all clear now, Tucker.

|12.3.07 @ 5:20PM|#

You have got to be kidding me:
"He brought people in here. What is more critical to look at is who finished second and third. That is a more true indicator of the feelings of the Republican Party of Virginia,"

This is one of the most rediculous statements I have read yet. The rEVOLution is real...and might be televised.
Join the teaparty Dec 16.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Ali (aka iih)|12.3.07 @ 5:23PM|#

I met the man on Saturday and shook his hand and personally thanked him for all that he does for America. Such a warm personality. It was a delightful weekend.

|12.3.07 @ 5:27PM|#

Now Edward you promised during your last anti Paul rant that weren't going to post here anymore.....shoo.....shoo! Back to Pandagon with you!

|12.3.07 @ 5:29PM|#

Over the weekend Paul won the Virginia GOP straw poll with 38 percent of the vote, even after Sen. George Allen made a personal appeal for Fred Thompson.'

Macaca man probably cost Thompson a few votes.

Lucas|12.3.07 @ 5:32PM|#

Bussed people in....they must be thinking of Romney! LOL

|12.3.07 @ 5:32PM|#

Today Rasmussen's Daily Presidential Tracking Poll shows him at 7% nationally, which is the highest he's scored yet.

Hey, it's a start.

Fluffy|12.3.07 @ 5:35PM|#

7% is OK to build on when the campaign is a few more days of bad Rudy press away from having everyone else bunched in the teens.

Paul's only chance is a split field. But a split field is exactly what the Republican party is giving him.

|12.3.07 @ 5:42PM|#

"What is more critical to look at is who finished second and third. That is a more true indicator of the feelings of the Republican Party of Virginia," said Tucker Watkins of Randolph in Charlotte County"

War is peace, love is hate, second is first!! Just ask Florida.

|12.3.07 @ 5:43PM|#

7% is OK to build on when the campaign is a few more days of bad Rudy press away from having everyone else bunched in the teens.

Well, yeah, but he's going to have to start showing some progress in the polls. The money is all very nice, but what counts in elections is votes. He's made tremendous progress, sure, but he seems to have plateaued in the high single digits. He's going to have to keep advancing to remain viable.

penxv|12.3.07 @ 5:47PM|#

The best Ron Paul song that I've seen is this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bCRc2ub8hU

But the best song that I think can pertain to the freedom movement generally and not particularly to Ron Paul is this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlqfpPf_EO0

|12.3.07 @ 5:47PM|#

Edward is a coward and a pussy. Oh, and stupid.
Cowpusstu, for short.
That's why he'll never leave when he's already promised to, and why URKOBOLD will continue to flame his powdery little boy butt.

|12.3.07 @ 5:49PM|#

I've got to wonder how Edward and DonderOOOOOOO (oddly absent on this thread so far) get here so quickly. Do they hover over H&R, waiting for any mention of Paul? Or this there some sort of moonbat signal involved?

|12.3.07 @ 5:49PM|#

"He brought people in here. What is more critical to look at is who finished second and third. That is a more true indicator of the feelings of the Republican Party of Virginia," said Tucker Watkins of Randolph in Charlotte County, a former 5th District GOP chairman.

Uhh, what?

I can only attribute a statement this idiotic to politicians...

Cynico|12.3.07 @ 5:52PM|#

Even a Paris Hilton CD is more listenable that horrors like that "If You Google Ron Paul" ditty.

|12.3.07 @ 5:53PM|#

Socialists Suck !!!

America is not supposed to be socialist.

I want my country back you tax and spend wacks.

Government does nothing well; why continue to give them more power over your daily lives.

I am voting for Ron Paul in the hope that my children will not be financial slaves to the debt or for the hope that we will not have to sell our country to Dubai when we go bankrupt.

Fools and their rights are soon parted.

George|12.3.07 @ 5:55PM|#

Hey Edward quit fingering your pussy and go online and do some actual research for the presidential candidates for 08

|12.3.07 @ 5:56PM|#

Now and then I thank the liberal proprietor of a local blog, and rib him at the same time by running a Ron Paul blogad.

Hearing news of the blimp, I figured it was time for another ad. But the trouble was, when I rotated the blimp pic to fit the tall and narrow space provided, it looked like it was crashing! (Not exactly the brand image we're going for...)

Not giving up easily, I removed the fins and gondola, and advertised it as the "Ron Paul Revolution Suppository" A sure cure for cronic neoconitis. The ad's here for one week.

Eric Dondero|12.3.07 @ 5:59PM|#

I'm here. But it doesn't mean that I have to comment on every little thing that comes up. Am I not allowed to just read what others post sometimes? Or, do I absolutely must post something, so that you all can bash me mercilessly thread on thread?

|12.3.07 @ 6:01PM|#

"I'm here. But it doesn't mean that I have to comment on every little thing that comes up. Am I not allowed to just read what others post sometimes? Or, do I absolutely must post something, so that you all can bash me mercilessly thread on thread?"

Quick post something stupid so we can bash you! In the meantime I'm trying to find a way to bash this post. Need more content plz kthnx

Eric Dondero|12.3.07 @ 6:03PM|#

I'll say only this. I've noticed a shift in the last few days in the GOP primary. My guy Rudy is losing some ground. Not at danger levels yet, but somewhat troubling.

Huckabee is the man of the hour. I'm sure we can all agree on that. This has shaken up my Republican friends, the mainline RedState.com conservative types. All of a sudden they're talking of unity around one fiscal conservative to head off the populist liberal Huckabee.

That unity candidate is either going to be Giuliani or Romney. I'm hoping it's Rudy, but if not, Mitt's just fine with me.

It's too the point now where even Ron Paulists need to start considering that fiscal liberal Mike Huckabee is for real. If we fiscal cons/libertarians don't unite behind one candidate soon, we could all end up the losers.

Mitt, and Fred are both acceptable to this Rudy guy. I think you Paul-bots need to compromise a bit, agree to join the rest of us, under a Mitt or Fred banner, and beat back the Huckabee threat.

VM|12.3.07 @ 6:04PM|#

BAWK BAWK! INTERNET ATTACK CHICKEN SPOTTED!

YES! DUNDEROOOOOOO!

BAWK BAWK! THE FLAMING INTERNET ATTACK CHICKEN AND COWARD EXTRAORDINAIRE!!!

DUNDEROOOOO!

|12.3.07 @ 6:04PM|#

Or, do I absolutely must post something, so that you all can bash me mercilessly thread on thread?

Yes.
So, do you carrot-fuck yourself to orgasm looking at pictures of Giuliani?
Bye now.

Eric Dondero|12.3.07 @ 6:06PM|#

Ahh, what would a weekday be without all the Dondero bashing.

But interesting not a one of you has the guts to say anything to my face - I live in the Nation's 4th largest city, Houston, TX and would be happy to meet you all any time, any wheres.

Or, to pick up the phone and say it to me on my cell - 832-896-9505. Just who'se the chicken? Notice many of you post here on bogus names like Fluffy, and stupid shit like that. At least I post my real name, AND my cell number.

Kolohe|12.3.07 @ 6:07PM|#

This makes sense. So the guys who place second and third in the Olympics are the real gold-medal winners? It's all clear now, Tucker.

I would say that the Va GOP lately is more analogous to the *Special* Olymics, but that's pretty insulting to the mentally handicapped.

|12.3.07 @ 6:07PM|#

Republican officials dismissed the poll's outcome, noting that Paul has been concentrating on winning straw polls all over the country. "He brought people in here."

Actually, "he" (meaning Ron Paul) hasn't been concentrating on winning straw polls, and "he" didn't bring any people to their straw poll. The people who support Ron Paul are concentrating on showing up to vote, on their own.

Where the heck are Rudy's supporters? His record in straw polls is abysmal. I wonder if his support in random telephone surveys will translate into votes?

|12.3.07 @ 6:07PM|#

I wish someone would make a website with a compilation of Ron Paul songs that can be downloaded, burned, and blasted in my hood.

|12.3.07 @ 6:08PM|#

I think you Paul-bots Ron Paul supporters need to compromise abandon your principles a bit, agree to join surrender to the rest of us, under a Mitt or Fred banner retreat flag, and beat back the Huckabee threat.

The answer is no, shitface.

|12.3.07 @ 6:10PM|#

Ron Paul has won the majority of EVERY poll that has been held, so far. The only polls he hasn't dominated are the polls where the media pollsters call lonely shut-ins who voted for W twice -- even when he ran unopposed, in the last primary.

When Paul wins NH, MI, NV, and WY, are we supposed to still believe that it only matters who comes in 2nd and 3rd??????????

What happens when he takes 10 states on Super Tuesday? That doesn't count either????????????

Are the NeoClowns gonna demand a "do over"?

Is Paul the ONLY candidate "trying to win"? Well, then, that's just good news for us, isn't it?

The NeoClowns are wetting their pants over Paul. They closed half the open primaries in his honor.

Join the Revolution!

RonPaul2008.com

|12.3.07 @ 6:11PM|#

pick up the phone and say it to me on my cell - 832-896-9505

I'd rather spend my allotted minutes stuck in a voice-mail tree trying to get a loan for a ball transplant.

|12.3.07 @ 6:12PM|#

While ignoring the usual flamespam from Edward and Dunderhead...here's teh interesting part:

"What is more critical to look at is who finished second and third. That is a more true indicator of the feelings of the Republican Party of Virginia," said Tucker Watkins of Randolph in Charlotte County"

There is actual truth here. If you look at second (Thompson) and third (Huckabee) there, what do you see? A lack of support. That's telling. If they have no support, then their polling numbers are inflated by the MSM, especially Huckabee, and that is borne out by his lack of fundraising (see also Fizzled HuckaBomb) and his lack of people and publicity on the ground.

What this means is that the old axiom "The world is run by those who show up" is true, and Dr. Paul's supporters are showing up, in droves. That must drive the GOP establishment (and Edward and Dunderhead) nuts! That's a good sign for those of us that love freedom and peace and prosperity over tyranny, war, and poverty.

|12.3.07 @ 6:12PM|#

Edward you little attention hoar, but your welcome to your uninformed oppinion, and good on ya for proof that you really are a little wog," Arn't Ya". Dr. Paul is every American's Truth in Government Choice. Thanks All,
Ron Paul 08

|12.3.07 @ 6:13PM|#

Well, yeah, but he's going to have to start showing some progress in the polls. The money is all very nice, but what counts in elections is votes. He's made tremendous progress, sure, but he seems to have plateaued in the high single digits. He's going to have to keep advancing to remain viable.

The votes ARE what count, but they have a very tenuous relationship to the polls, especially the polls in early December for the primaries.

Even if Ron Paul never polls above 10%, and the polls are even reasonably accurate, he could still win the nomination, just by getting his supporters to turn out at several times the rate the other guys get their supporters to turn out.

Turnout in the primaries is usually 15-20% (though New Hampshire is significantly higher than that), so a candidate at 10% in the polls could get 30 or 40% of the vote.

It would take exceptionally motivated and well-organized supporters, but anyone who doubts the motivation and the organization of Ron Paul supporters after November 5th is on pretty shaky ground.

|12.3.07 @ 6:13PM|#

Eric Dondero | December 3, 2007, 5:59pm | #

I'm here.

Where's the Kwell cream when you need it?

|12.3.07 @ 6:14PM|#

"This has shaken up my Republican friends, the mainline RedState.com conservative types. All of a sudden they're talking of unity around one fiscal conservative to head off the populist liberal Huckabee."

Welcome aboard to the Ron Paul Revolution!!

"That unity candidate is either going to be Giuliani or Romney. I'm hoping it's Rudy, but if not, Mitt's just fine with me."

And that is why we fail.

"It's too the point now where even Ron Paulists need to start considering that fiscal liberal Mike Huckabee is for real. If we fiscal cons/libertarians don't unite behind one candidate soon, we could all end up the losers."

Yes very good. Welcome aboard to the Ron Paul Revolution!!

"Mitt, and Fred are both acceptable to this Rudy guy. I think you Paul-bots need to compromise a bit, agree to join the rest of us, under a Mitt or Fred banner, and beat back the Huckabee threat."

Mitt is not acceptable because Mitt isn't a fiscal conservative either. Fred is my second choice but he's polling below Paul and is basically a watered down version who doesn't have the guts to explain to the American people that we can't afford to wage a sustained war in the middle east without the dollar imploding.

The current Republican party and Mike Huckabee deserve each other. The party has tossed every other conservative principle out the window, may as well wear the populist taxation and spending on their sleeve and call it a day.

|12.3.07 @ 6:20PM|#

No one has voted yet you idiots. Polls are for the media, and those who believe them are stupid. I appear to be in the sweet spot for polling and I lie to those polls all the time, its fun, try it.
Quick game.
Let me say "grass roots organic support". Guess who we are talking about?

Times Up Neo-Con idiot.

If you guessed any of the George Bush big- government imperialist wannabes, you guessed wrong.

The man can be trusted with your vote. He will do what he says. We all finally have some hope, and a candidate that we can actually vote FOR!
WOOT!

|12.3.07 @ 6:22PM|#

Eric-

I wouldn't post my cell number because I get enough spam just from posting my email address. Posting your cell phone, in public, on the internet, isn't ballsy. Its stupid. S-t-u-p-i-d.

VM|12.3.07 @ 6:22PM|#

J sub - at least you can get to see a good picture of dunderoooo!

(my! what a "man" is he!)

Eric Dondero|12.3.07 @ 6:28PM|#

Cesar, I have posted my cell number on my website at www.mainstreamlibertarian.com since its inception. I get 200 to 300 unique visitors a day to that site.

Tell me, I don't get it. What's the difference from posting your number on a forum like Reason and a website?

Anyone can Google "Eric Dondero" and get to my website and get my number any way. So, why should I care?

|12.3.07 @ 6:28PM|#

Ron Paul isn't Mitt Romney. He doesn't bus people anywhere. his supporters bus themselves on Romney's busses. He spends his money on getting his message out to the public, not sending people to Straw Polls.

Eric Dondero|12.3.07 @ 6:30PM|#

No, on the contrary Romney is quite fiscally conservative. He was supported enthusiastically by the Republican Liberty Caucus in his run for US Senate against Ted Kennedy in 1992 and his subsequent run for Governor. What's cool about Romney is that he's a Northeasterner. And the Republican Party desperately needs that.

I'll support him 100% if he's the Nominee.

BTW, William Weld has endorsed Romney. And anyone good enough for Weld is certainaly good enough for me.

I believe, but am not 100% sure that libertarian State Senator Bob Hedlund of Mass, has also endorsed Romney.

Eric Dondero|12.3.07 @ 6:33PM|#

Ron Paul is polling decently in New Hampshire and South Carolina. But he's not polling well at all in big states like his home state of Texas, California, New Jersey, and especially Florida where he languishes in the 3% range. Unless he can build support in big states, he's not going to go far beyond the 5% range.

|12.3.07 @ 6:34PM|#

Mister Moose,

I'll get you for that. When you least expect it, expect it.

|12.3.07 @ 6:37PM|#

Are you seriously going to support Huckabee if he wins Dondi?

|12.3.07 @ 6:38PM|#

I thought the point of straw polls was to see which candidate could actually get their supporters to come out (and pay $$) as a show of their organizational strength. Its sort of a dick-measuring tool for big-money donors to know which candidate is swinging longest. That way they know who to suck up to. (Do I know how to work a metaphor, or what!)
It was glorious to read between the lines in the WaPo. Va GOP head John Hager was spitting mad, I gather.

|12.3.07 @ 6:40PM|#

"But the best song that I think can pertain to the freedom movement generally and not particularly to Ron Paul is this one...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlqfpPf_EO0"

Let me propose another..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=01JQe00XHPI

A warning though...the song is in that meskin' language.

dovv|12.3.07 @ 6:41PM|#

Daughters of Vietnam Veterans for RON PAUL!!

pdog|12.3.07 @ 6:47PM|#

Huckabee would be my worst nightmare. He represents everything I would dislike in a canidate. He is like, the anti-libertarian.

|12.3.07 @ 6:49PM|#

Huckabee would be my worst nightmare. He represents everything I would dislike in a canidate. He is like, the anti-libertarian.

Those were my thoughts exactly. Hes an economic populist and a social reactionary. Pat Buchanan with a Bible college diploma.

DF Robichaux|12.3.07 @ 6:51PM|#

The polls are wrong and have been in primarys forever in contested races. Ron Paul will win the Republican nomination because:

Huckabee will take Iowa because of the christianist vote then hit a brick wall in NH, Nevada, Wyoming, Michigan and South Carolina. He is back down to middle of the pack after that.

Guiliani will not get off of the ground in the early states and will be buried in the south.

Romeny beaten by Huckabee in Iowa, flip-flops his momentum in the following primaries.

McCain's only chance is New Hampshire and he will not get it done. He does not rise a third time.

Thompson never left the ground and is just digging deeper.

That means that Paul will:
Place in the top 3 in Iowa.
1st in N.H- open primary and libertarian hotbed
1st in Nevada- open primary and libertarian hotbed
Top 2 in Michigan - open primary with antiwar Demo's coming over after self-disqualification.
Top 3 in South Carolina.

Ron Paul after the first round will have more top 3 finishes than anyone else and will not have to look back. The intial primary states except for Iowa are made to order for a Goldwater Republican who's time has come.

http://www.lifebelowi10.blogspot.com/

|12.3.07 @ 6:58PM|#

It's offical the GOP establishment has lost there mind! As a lifelong Republican who supports Ron Paul all I ask is what are they smokin up there in the GOP penthouse?

""Over the weekend Paul won the Virginia GOP straw poll with 38 percent of the vote, even after Sen. George Allen made a personal appeal for Fred Thompson.
Republican officials dismissed the poll's outcome, noting that Paul has been concentrating on winning straw polls all over the country.

"He brought people in here. What is more critical to look at is who finished second and third. That is a more true indicator of the feelings of the Republican Party of Virginia," said Tucker Watkins of Randolph in Charlotte County, a former 5th District GOP chairman.""

|12.3.07 @ 7:00PM|#

DF Robichaux,
I really like your optimism. I think there might be too much tint in your eyeglasses (i.e. ain't gonna happen, sure hope I'm wrong).
Still, I really like your optimism.

BakedPenguin|12.3.07 @ 7:06PM|#

Even if Ron Paul never polls above 10%, and the polls are even reasonably accurate, he could still win the nomination, just by getting his supporters to turn out at several times the rate the other guys get their supporters to turn out.

I'm not quite as optimistic as Craig, but I think the polls are going to be woefully wrong about Paul - (e.g., they're going to have to revise their margin of error). Mainly, I think Paul's support among college-age voters who often don't have land lines is going to distort the numbers they've been working with. Also, depending on the methodology of the survey, they might not be talking to all of the right people. If they're only asking voters who were registered (R) from last year's rolls, that's going to ignore a lot of people who switched just to vote for Paul.

The change in primary voting days may wind up helping Paul if the January weather is bad. Paul voters definitely seem much more enthusiastic about voting than others. (Can you see a Thompson voter slushing through freezing rain to vote for in the primary? I think Fred himself would look out the window and say "ah, the hell with it.")

As for songs about freedom, Suspect Device is a punk ditty written about the Irish "Troubles", but it could easily apply to the Patriot Act.

|12.3.07 @ 7:09PM|#

In April, when I began supporting Ron Paul, if someone had told me that by December he'd be spending big on radio and TV, and would still have 10 million in the bank and a blimp set for launch, I'd have classified the remark as overly optimistic.

His campaign has been very surprising so far, and likely holds a few more.

|12.3.07 @ 7:09PM|#

The change in primary voting days may wind up helping Paul if the January weather is bad.

I'm fucking rain-dancing at my next MeetUp!

|12.3.07 @ 7:10PM|#

Eric Dondero wrote:
"Ron Paul is polling decently in New Hampshire and South Carolina. But he's not polling well at all in big states..."
| December 3, 2007, 6:33pm |

It doesn't matter. Paul is under polling by at least 50%, and his supporters are at least twice as likely as anyone else's (except the Huckster's, whose support is soft, but somewhat enthusiast) to show up and vote. Do the math. As someone else here pointed out (and as I've suspected all along), even if Paul never polls above 10% (among the shut-in W loyalists the media is calling), he can still win the nomination decisively.

Except for Tancredo and Hunter (who are Hamiltonians), the rest of the field are just socialists. If you support any of them, PLEASE stop calling yourself a "libertarian." You're as much a libertarian as Bill Maher.

As for the general election, Ron Paul is polarizing among NeoClowns and Progressives, but will deliver so many disaffected Democrats, 3rd party members, and Independents that he could easily deliver the most decisive victory for the Republican party since 1984....unless the NeoClowns support a John Anderson style spoiler candidate (McCain seems a likely choice for this).

The question isn't whether Paul will go 3rd party, if he loses the GOP nomination. The real question is whether the NeoClowns will try to sabotage Paul, if he wins the nomination.

|12.3.07 @ 7:10PM|#

All I see are kooks calling other people kooks. I love how anti Ron Paul people call his followers crazy. Neo-kooks are so high and mighty, have no humility, are responsible for this war, and think of themselves as "such good normal god-fearing people." It doesn't really matter because, just like we said in 2004, "if Kerry loses to Bush, the amazingly ignorant neo-kook administration would all but kill the Republican party. Now were going to get health care, immigration, education, social security, all of it. And it never would of happened without George Bush!!
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. THE LIBERALS WIN!!!!! hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. All hail King George the Kook!!!!
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. THE BEST PART IS THAT DEMOCRATS DIDNT EVEN SAY ANYTHING, THEY LET YOU KILL YOURSELF WITH YOUR OWN MOUTH!!!
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaa.

|12.3.07 @ 7:12PM|#

hahahhahahahahahahahaha

Edward|12.3.07 @ 7:12PM|#

The Ron Paul Xmas Song

Ron Paul, the hopeless candidate
had a very tiny head.
And if you ever heard him,
As a candidate you'd say he's dead.

All of the other candidates
used to laugh and call him names.
They never let poor Ron Paul
join in any candidate games.

Then one foggy Christmas Eve
Libertarians came to say:
"Ron Paul with your head so small,
won't stop our imminent fall?"

Then all the candidates mocked him
as they shouted out with glee,
Ron Paul the small-headed candidate,
you'll go down in history!

VM|12.3.07 @ 7:15PM|#

Pic of EDWEIRDOOOOO.

Edward|12.3.07 @ 7:17PM|#

j sub d

Sometimes optimism is a sign of stupidity.

Dynamist Dan|12.3.07 @ 7:34PM|#

And trolling a website with ad hominem attacks on a presidential candidate is a sign of genius.

You'd think the Republican party would at least recognize the potential power Ron Paul supporters may yield in the general election and treat them with some level of respect. This arrogance and disrespect may very well backfire on them.

|12.3.07 @ 7:54PM|#

You know, I really don't understand the Republican party any more.

They treat the most conservative man like he doesn't belong here while a Democrat leads the polls in the Republican primary. All the while alienating the conservatives behind the true leader.

What the hell is up with this, people? Giuliani is NOT a Republican! And you're trying to say that Ron Paul doesn't belong in the party?

Fine. The Republican party can go to hell, then.

|12.3.07 @ 8:03PM|#

You know, I really don't understand the Republican party any more.

I blame their simultaneous control of the legislative and executive branches.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and all that...

Phillip Webizen|12.3.07 @ 8:16PM|#

"He's made tremendous progress, sure, but he seems to have plateaued in the high single digits. He's going to have to keep advancing to remain viable."

What makes you think he's plateau'd? There's no evidence for this: another blatant lie and pathetic spin. You must be desperate, or is it just wishful thinking? Either way, your piece is neither objective, truthful or informative.

|12.3.07 @ 8:26PM|#

In about 90 minutes I'm going to a local GOP meeting. I have a precinct to cover and everything. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|12.3.07 @ 8:41PM|#

Taktix® | December 3, 2007, 8:03pm | #
You know, I really don't understand the Republican party any more.

I blame their simultaneous control of the legislative and executive branches.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and all that...

But it does rock absolutely as well.

Eric Dondero|12.3.07 @ 8:45PM|#

Oh my God. You all will not believe who just lent his backing to Rudy Giuliani for President.

He's probably one of the Top 5 most well-known libertarians in the Nation, certainly tops on the tax issue.

This is huge!

JoinRudy2008.com

Eric Dondero|12.3.07 @ 8:49PM|#

Keep saying that Giuliani doesn't lean libertarian.

He's got Steve Forbes, Dennis Miller, Sally Pipes, Deroy Murdock and scores of other indentified "libertarians" backing him. And now today, a huge announcement from the Giuliani campaign.

This one tops them all, except perhaps Forbes.

It's a big one. A really, really big one.

And a shocker, cause up til now he's kept mum on any public endorsements in the primary.

|12.3.07 @ 9:09PM|#

Faulting RP (or me) for some of his non-sanctioned supporters is like blaming Jodie Foster for the shooting of Ronald Reagan."

Now that I think about it, I do seem to remember a few people blaming Jodie Foster for that. It was on the lines of "look how eeevil hollywood is".

|12.3.07 @ 9:11PM|#

Bigger than a blimp?

|12.3.07 @ 9:17PM|#

well Dondi, you've convinced me, I am DEFINITELY voting for giuliani now...

|12.3.07 @ 9:19PM|#

Who do you think we are...Ron Paul has the most support out of all. Time and Time again Ron Paul wins every poll, it is time to let go and give a true review.

thoreau|12.3.07 @ 9:19PM|#

Well, let's see here. I could look at Rudy's authoritarian tendencies and his lack of any concrete proposal for significant spending cuts. Or I could just trust that Grover Norquist must know what he's talking about, and this will most assuredly work out.

Let's see, should I trust authority, or should I examine evidence? Man, tough call.

|12.3.07 @ 9:20PM|#

As far as I'm concerned, the single best campaign song of all time is "Ron Paul for the Long Haul."

The fact that Labash neglected it is a crime against God and Man.

Franklin Harris|12.3.07 @ 9:20PM|#

He's got Steve Forbes, Dennis Miller, Sally Pipes, Deroy Murdock and scores of other indentified "libertarians" backing him.

In other words, he has no libertarians backing him. But we knew that already.

|12.3.07 @ 9:23PM|#

Has anyone called Dondero yet? I'm tempted too, but I don't have an unlisted number. After last week's unprovoked attack on me, I'm not about to allow him the luxury of reciprocity.

Ali (aka iih)|12.3.07 @ 9:32PM|#

Paul is on CSPAN 2 now (I am on the East Coast). 40 more minutes to go (30 already over).

Ali (aka iih)|12.3.07 @ 9:33PM|#

He's got Steve Forbes, Dennis Miller, Sally Pipes, Deroy Murdock and scores of other indentified "libertarians" backing him.

What is an indentified libertarian. One with dents?

|12.3.07 @ 9:35PM|#

Straw polls mean fuck all.

revotenow|12.3.07 @ 9:45PM|#

Eric, and the others who say us Ron Paul supporters need to compromise and get behind another candidate, know this.

We will not compromise, we will not flip flop. We will stand behind our candidate because we believe in him, his message, our country, our constitution, and our liberties. We do this even though it is hard and unpopular, we do this because our founders did, our grandfathers did, so our sons/daughters will not have to.

Why don't you become uncompromised and support Ron Paul.

"In times of change, the patriot is a scarce man; brave, hated, and scorned." Mark Twain. "Only 5% of the population needed to reach critical mass." Can't remember.

Ali (aka iih)|12.3.07 @ 9:47PM|#

revotenow- I stand with you!

Edward|12.3.07 @ 9:50PM|#

Things that are more likely than Ron Paul winning

Jesus returns to Earth.
Hamas recognizes Israel.
Some doctor says obesity is dangerous and Reason lets it pass.
Giuliani drops out and endorses Hillary.
The Mafia gives all its money to charity and goes out of business.

Eric Dondero|12.3.07 @ 9:56PM|#

Franklin? That you? Saying that Forbes, Sally Pipes, and DeRoy Murdock are "not libertarians."

Golly gee there Franklin. I wasn't aware someone had died and made you boss. Wasn't aware that you were all of a sudden crowned "King of the Libertarians" able to decide who is and who is not properly "Christened" with the "libertarian" label.

Quite the power you have there.

Did Murray Rothbard pass it on to you on his death bed or something?

Oops, I plum forgot. Murray died in a chair at a waiting room at a Doctor's office, so it couldn't have been him.

Tell us Franklin who was thy gentleman who christened Thee "King of the Libertarians"?

stewie|12.3.07 @ 9:58PM|#

For the record, my political choices will be:

1.) Ron Paul
2.) Whomever the LP runs
3.) Obama
4.) Richardson

The rest of them (from both parties) are worthless sacks of shite.

Eric Dondero|12.3.07 @ 10:07PM|#

Obama 'eh? A man who has a perfect 100 score from the Marxist ADA. And Richardson the smoking ban champion? Wasn't enough for Richardson to just ban smoking in restaurants. Nah, he had to ban it in bars too, in the entire State of New Mexico.

A Marxist who studied in a Radical Islamic Madrassa as a little boy, and a Nanny-Stater.

Are you sure you're a libertarian?

|12.3.07 @ 10:30PM|#

Let me translate for you Eric. People who prefer Ron Paul don't have to be libertarian.

Duh!

Edward|12.3.07 @ 10:47PM|#

stewie

So let me get this straight. If Ron Paul loses, the LP doesn't run anybody, and Richardson wins the dem nomination, you're supporting him. Hmmm, interesting.

|12.3.07 @ 11:11PM|#

So let me get this straight. If Ron Paul loses, the LP doesn't run anybody, and Richardson wins the dem nomination, you're supporting him. Hmmm, interesting.

I don't get what's so hard to understand. Richardson might be something of a nanny state dem, but he's got a better foreign policy platform than any Republican outside of Paul.

It's our foreign policy, stupid.

|12.3.07 @ 11:38PM|#

Eric Dondero wrote:
"Are you sure you're a libertarian"
| December 3, 2007, 10:07pm |

You still don't get it? Ron Paul has one of the broadest coalitions in recent political history. That's what makes him a winning candidate for the GOP in the general election (probably the only GE winner the GOP has). How many times do you need this explained to you?

The problem that most NeoClowns have with Paul is his principled and consistent opposition to the Iraq debacle. This is very interesting, considering that it is now generally considered a mistake (even among most Republicans), in that the pretext for the war was erroneous. The best excuse most can come up with for a continued US presence is that we're already there; In other word, "Yeah, we were wrong, but now that we're there, we have to finish the job" (a rational that makes about as much sense as "mistaking" a stranger for your wife, but refusing to pull out 'til you're "finished"), or -- as the Huckster dubiously "reasons" -- "Well, shucks, we done broke it, so now we gotta fix it." And THAT's the basis of your rejection of Paul? Because he was right all along, and objects to perpetuating an error? Stop drinking te koolaide.

|12.3.07 @ 11:49PM|#

Ugh.

The meeting went only "OK," and I found out something very discouraging. When I am working as a precinct committee officer (which I was elected to tonight), I cannot stump for any particular candidate (thanks a lot, Mctaint/Finemold!). So I will have to be very careful about how I go about doing this.

Sigh. This post to no one in particular, especially a specific cockbite on this thread.

|12.4.07 @ 12:03AM|#

On this date in 2003, John Kerry was polling 4% nationally (lower than Ron Paul). Something to think about.

Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|12.4.07 @ 12:06AM|#

sage: good luck, man.

|12.4.07 @ 12:21AM|#

Eric, no, that wasn't me but, if it makes you feel better, I don't think they're libertarians either. Then again, I don't think anyone that would support Giuliani for pres is a libertarian (not saying I don't have other reasons). I'm no guardian of the label, I could care less. Hell, the LP has done enough to destroy the label. That's just what I think. Remember, even the word liberal used to mean something different. Maybe one day, after the neocons have changed the meaning of the word libertarian, I'll have to refer to myself as a "classical libertarian".

Oh, and Paul is at 7% nationally in todays Rasmussen. That's 3% higher than Kerry on this day 2003.

Ali (aka iih)|12.4.07 @ 12:39AM|#

Franklin-

You know what, to hell with labels. These gets labeled and relabeled. What brings people together are common beliefs, philosophical, and political views. Labels are just like flags; they too can be used to lead one to fascism and totalitarianism. I would always give Eric the benefit of the doubt when he says that he or Rudy are libertarian. They just define "libertarian" in a fundamentally different way than what you and I would define it. But who cares, what matters are our positions on the issues.

|12.4.07 @ 12:50AM|#

@Phillip Webizen

What makes you think he's plateau'd? There's no evidence for this: another blatant lie and pathetic spin. You must be desperate, or is it just wishful thinking?

I say I think he's plateaued because he hasn't really advanced his standing in the polls since early November! That isn't wishful thinking, that's worried thinking. I'm one of his supporters. I'd like to see him steadily improving his standing.

|12.4.07 @ 1:16AM|#

Over a third of the November 5th contributions came from first time donors.

Screw the polls. Money talks.

|12.4.07 @ 1:17AM|#

Here's a new music video that supports Ron Paul. It's not about Ron, per se, but it's an excerpt from a zombie-musical feature film, "Song of the Dead." The filmmaker is giving $1 from each DVD sold to the Ron Paul campaign. The film is an anti-war satire that takes aim at the war on terror and the MSM.
See it at:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qQmkkoxSKYw

Mad Max|12.4.07 @ 1:24AM|#

Eric D/R,

I'm sorry that some of the H&R comments have gotten so vitriolic as to make you look reasonable by comparison. You're acting like you're trying to engage people in conversation, and I appreciate that.

However, it will take more than talking down Dr. Paul, and dropping the names of the many libertarians/conservatives who are hedging their bets by supporting other candidates, to get me to give up on the good Doctor. He's the only candidate I can vote for without needing a shower afterwards.

"No, on the contrary Romney is quite fiscally conservative. He was supported enthusiastically by the Republican Liberty Caucus in his run for US Senate against Ted Kennedy in 1992 and his subsequent run for Governor. What's cool about Romney is that he's a Northeasterner. And the Republican Party desperately needs that."

OK, Romney is more fiscally conservative than Ted Kennedy. I give him that. But then again, 100 boatloads of drunken sailors with unlimited charge accounts taking a month's shore leave at the priciest brothel in Marseilles are more fiscally conservative than Ted Kennedy. The bar is pretty low. [insert Ted Kennedy bar joke here]

Edward,

You're certainly giving a lot of attention to talking down a candidate who you say has no chance of winning.

I certainly appreciate your constant reminders about Dr. Paul's social conservatism. "OMG, he supports the Pledge of Allegiance! And God! And Mom! And apple pie!" As a Right-Wing Fundamentalist Chrisofascist (™), I find all this very reassuring.

But be assured that Dr. Paul's Rainbow Coalition has room for everyone - Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Jains, atheists, agnostics, [insert name of unpopular sports team] fans, you name it.

"The best excuse most can come up with for a continued US presence is that we're already there; In other word, "Yeah, we were wrong, but now that we're there, we have to finish the job" (a rational that makes about as much sense as "mistaking" a stranger for your wife, but refusing to pull out 'til you're "finished")"

There's a joke worth stealing. Thank you in advance.

Vote Quimby|12.4.07 @ 1:37AM|#

8 Point Agenda by Latyrx. Plus it gives hip-hop fans a libertarian point of view. Try and listen to the song if possible to get the real effect. It's fan-freaking-tastic.

We believe in maximum effect

[And absolutely] every single facet of the gem

[Including] {but [not limited to the]

{Pursuit of truth [which has been] {unduly

[Smoothed over] {made soothing [to those]

Who have been doing the polluting in fact

{We wrote some raps

[Now I have here in my chest an outline]

{A list, [a platform], {manifesto, [a mandate

From intro] {to outro, it's absolutely rock solid

From the {bottom to the top and the [top to the bottom]

{Here's a outlook, and how it reads, [number one,]

{We don't believe in other people thieving the ideas

That our cerebrums cultivate and create, but if you're stealing them

[Now that's a calculated mistake]

{A combination infinite involving digitized code.. you can't break, point two:

[We believe in unconditional control

Not under supervision of another operator] {so

[What that means is our beliefs our boundaries shall all be balanced properly

Without restriction, limitation or revoke, Point three:]

{We don't believe in you controlling we [That's point three]

{I'm not obligated to listen to shit that you're telling me

That's the type of thing that could lead to a felony, I don't give a fuck

You yellin' at me at the top of your lungs, you do it

Otherwise it isn't gonna get done, I hold the reins to my tongue

{And decide when to close and open the door, the point four:

[Point four, you been warned, so before we move on

Just from point four on, just so you don't distort

The order make us go back and forth, once more

Let's repeat what we've recorded thus far, now point one:]

{We don't believe in other people thieving the ideas

That our cerebrums cultivate and create, make no mistake, point two:

[We believe in unconditional control of our beliefs and our opinions

Our souls, our growth, and our dominions, point three:]

{We don't believe in you controlling we

I'm not obligated to do or say or listen to a god damn thing, a point four

[Point four], {point four, [point four],

{point four, [point four], {point four, [now point four]:



We believe in all of the above just for the reasons given

Up, livin' it up, livin' not.. givin' up - setting

Government and loving it, so we self-sufficient

Not trippin' off of that subliminal stuff

We not submitting coming with it rough and tough

We gonna suppliment your knowledge with.. a substance

We not gonna let an opportunity get left out

We not.. gonna let some indecision stop what we about

We not.. gonna show no mercy over flowing the drought

Chad|12.4.07 @ 2:28AM|#

Wow...what an intelligent and constructive conversation.

You should all (including the Paul supporters; and I support Dr. Paul) thinkg about growing up.

Eric D, as for attacking Richardson (who I would NEVER vote for by the way) for smoking ban, what about Czar Giuliani and his ARDENT and enthusiastic support of all things drug criminalization and his short-sighted view on the 2nd amendment as demonstrated in the CNN debate?

Take it easy everyone. Just try to cool it off on all sides and see if you can't get something out of the conversation other than self-gratitude. Or maybe that's what politics is all about. . .

Kolohe|12.4.07 @ 2:54AM|#

A Marxist who studied in a Radical Islamic Madrassa as a little boy,

You giannormous hack, he went to elite private school in Hawaii from fifth to twelth grade; you know, when you actually learn shit. Are you goddamn worried he knows how to undermine America with fucking fingerpaintings and crappy macaroni dioramas?

penxv|12.4.07 @ 3:13AM|#

"Let me propose another..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=01JQe00XHPI

A warning though...the song is in that meskin' language."

I liked it. This is good too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imqvH_0Yxs0

|12.4.07 @ 3:17AM|#

Ali: word.

Pig Mannix: Paul gained points in the latest Iowa poll and the latest national poll (came out today I think). When the last NH and SC polls came out, he had gained in those states as well. I'm pretty sure the trend will continue, even if by only 2-4% at a time. Remember, those polls are "likely primary voters" (read: voted for Bush in 2004). Paul dominates the category of "unlikely primary voters" so if he can get 10-15% of the "likely" category in NH, he's going to upset. Ironically, this year Paul's "unlikely primary voters" are more likely to vote than the "likely primary voters".

Vote Quimby: Since everyone is sharing hip hop, don't forget Talib Kweli. His newest album is all over YouTube.

Chad: First time here? It actually seems fairly tame when compared to other threads.

-------------------------

Uh oh. This ad says don't vote for Ron Paul. (Found on LRC Blog)

Kolohe|12.4.07 @ 3:33AM|#

sorry chad, didn't see your post.
i'm all settled down now.
(not sure about growing up; though i just had a winterboch, so that and the other holiday stuff is definitely starting to make the tummy grow out)

DDP|12.4.07 @ 7:23AM|#

Deroy Murdock? Libertarian? Are you fucking joking?

"This is all the more reason for President Bush to reinstate waterboarding, proudly and publicly, so America can get the information we need to prevent Muslim-fanatic mass murder and win the Global War on Terror.

Appropriately enough, waterboarding is not used on American citizens suspected of tax evasion, sexual harassment, or bank robbery. Waterboarding is used on foreign Islamic-extremist terrorists, captured abroad, who would love nothing more than to blast innocent men, women, and children into small, bloody pieces. Some of them already have done so.

Waterboarding has worked quickly, causing at least one well-known subject to break down and identify at least six other high-profile, highly bloodthirsty associates before they could commit further mass murder beyond the 3,192 people they already killed and the 7,715 they already wounded.

Though clearly uncomfortable, waterboarding loosens lips without causing permanent physical injuries (and unlikely even temporary ones). If terrorists suffer long-term nightmares about waterboarding, better that than more Americans crying themselves to sleep after their loved ones have been shredded by bombs or baked in skyscrapers.

In short, there is nothing "repugnant" about waterboarding."

-Deroy Murdock

Any person within their wits that writes the above text is not, by the loosest definitions, a libertarian. Torture (or "enhanced interrogation", in Oceanic terms) violates one of the basic doctrines of libertarianism.

I know you want to stay safe little Dondero, and that you will sell your soul to the smallest man offering that safety. But please don't obfuscate our philosophy with your cowardice.

There is more to libertarianism than low taxes.

PS- "I'm now declaring for Giuliani, unless some more libertarian candidate like Dennis Miller, Ron Paul, Gary Johnson or Wayne Root jumps in the race." - Eric Dondero

So, Ron Paul is "more libertarian", by your own admission?

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 7:58AM|#

DDP, a libertarian? Are you joking? He's even too much of a pussy to post comments under his own name. He has to use bullshit initials.

Get the fuck out of my libertarian movement you coward.

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 8:00AM|#

DDP, ever serve in the Military fuckface?

We Military guys had to go through far worse in basic and other training than waterboarding. Try sitting in a gas chamber for 10 minutes, and being ordered to take off your gas mask the last 10 seconds, and count slowly to 10.

Good enough for our Military Personnel, abso-fucking-lutely good enough for terrorists.

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 8:02AM|#

Yup, Ron Paul WAS more libertarian before May of last year. I was even moderately supportive of him.

Then he made the most idiotic statement of any Presidential candidate in the entire field, blaming the United States for the attacks of 9/11 at that debate with Giuliani.

Nothing less than conspiracy theory extremist leftist America-hating treasonous statement.

Anyone who blames America for the attacks of 9/11 and not the Terrorists and Islamo-Fascists DOE NOT DESERVE TO CALL ONESELF A LIBERTARIAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They are rather a FASCIST!

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 8:07AM|#

Edward, sorry you feel that way. I think endorsements in a Presidential race are extremely important.

Look, next to PJ O'Rourke, William Weld is one of the all-time heros to the libertarian Republican movement, and most specifically the Republican Liberty Caucus. I don't want to get into a long drawn-out RLC history here, but I'll just say that William Weld did some things in the early 1990s to endorse RLC's efforts, that put us on the map. I'm eternally grateful for that.

I'm not even sure that the term "libertarian Republican" would be half as popular as it is today, were it not for Weld. He was the VERY FIRST mainstream politician to get any play out of it whatsoever.

You cannot imagine how joyful us RLCers were in the early 1990s to pick up Time or Newsweek, or the Wall Street Journal, featuring an article on Weld, with the term "libertarian Republican" next to his name.

Thus, when William Weld endorses Mitt Romney for President, I listen. Not enough to swign me over from Rudy, but certainly enough to make me consider him as my second choice.

|12.4.07 @ 8:09AM|#

Dondero, you twit... when you went through it you had the absolute certainty that the folks administering the water or the gas had your best interests in mind. That's why they were doing it. If you're really sitting here advocating torture, you absolutely have no comprehension of the legitimate use of force by the government, and YOU are the one that needs to "get the fuck out of my libertarian movement..."

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 8:11AM|#

Great Franklin! Than we are agreed. You should stop calling yourself a "libertarian" and switch to something like leftist liberal, or "occasionally free market supporting hard leftist," or "anti-American, Islamo-Fascism loving, Paul-tard." Something along those lines would be appropriate for you, but not "libertarian."

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 8:14AM|#

Yes, it is our foreign policy stupid. And even John Murtha the other day admitted that the Surge "has worked."

Just about every Dem out there, except for Kucinich is now admitting the same. Yet, Anti-War Libertarians are so saddled with their extremist position, that they're no escape for them. They're becomming the laughing stock of American politics, with their continual denunciation of our Troops, Patreus, and our Victory in Iraq.

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 8:19AM|#

dpotts, what constitutes torture in your mind?

How about when the GIs surrounding Noriega's compoud in Panama City were blaring Heavy Metal music all day and all night long, to get Noriega to leave. Was that torture?

How about sleep deprival?

Or, maybe push-ups?

How about standing in place for an hour?

Walking a straight line, or being forced to touch your finger to your nose?

So, you think water-boarding IS torture, yet Gas Chambers ARE NOT?

When someone who was water-boarded is done they're just a little wet, and their hair is out of place.

A Military recruit in a gas chamber, leaves the chamber with snot streaming out of their nose, vomit coming out of their mouths, eye reddened and itchy and streaming of tears. Skin burning like a flame.

I remember it took about 45 minutes for us to recover. I saw some of the toughest mother-fuckers wimpering like little babies when they left that chamber. And every single one of us had to do it, including the Officers.

So don't cry to me about a little water sprinkled on someone's face.

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 8:23AM|#

Chad, Giuliani on drugs?

Why not pose that question to former Maryland Governor, Republican Bob Ehrlich. He is a big supporter of Medical Marijuana reform, even backing such legislation in Annapolis. Most recently, he not only endorsed Giuliani, but is now State Chairman for his Maryland Campaign.

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 8:26AM|#

Brandybuck, Mike Huckabee has some fanatical Christian supporters running ads now in Iowa, not approved by the Huckabee campaign.

This morning there's news that Huckabee has denounced them in the strongest terms possible, and has completely dissassociated himself from the ads and the group.

Wow! And these are just Christian Rightists. Imagine if some NeoNazi groups started running ads for Huckabee. He'd probably hunt them down, smack 'em down, and have them arrested.

Why won't Ron Paul do the same? Where's the outrage from Ron Paul to his NeoNazi supporters?

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 8:32AM|#

AfricanAmericans4Paul,

(Yet another pussy boy who doesn't post under his own name? What the fuck is up with that? I mean Edward, Franklin, Bob and others here at least do that. Why such cowardice on this Forum?)

Anyway, guess you haven't been turning into the news as of late. The War in Iraq has been won, and it's a glorious victory, perhaps the greatest victory in the history of the United States.

Even Murtha, of all people, admitted the other day that "the Surge has worked."

What happened to all those "hundreds of thousands of body bags" that were going to be needed, according to the Leftists and the Anti-War Libertarians when we invaded Iraq?

Turns out it amounted to 3,800, less than the deaths of American soliders, sailors and Marines, in a single hour on the beaches of Normandy.

Keep to your line, that the War in Iraq is a "disaster." You'll become an even bigger clown than you are now, and will further discredit Anti-War Libertarianism. As a Pro-Defense libertarian, I'm hoping that you and others stick with that line.

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 8:35AM|#

AfricanAmericans4Ron Paul (read, I'm too much of a pussy boy to post under my own name),

You say Ron Paul has a "wide coalition."

Really? He can't even get libertarians to back him.

There are libertarians supporting John McCain (Don Murphey of MD), there are libertarians supporting Romney (James Bonham and the guys at Race42008.com), many supporting Fred Thompson (Quentin Langley), even one or two behind Huckabee (Ted Nugent), and a host of libertarians supporting Rudy Giuliani.

If you can't even get libertarians behind you in a coalition, and you're identified as the "most libertarian candidate" in the GOP race, than you've got serious problems.

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 8:38AM|#

Let me translate for you Bob.

Many people who support Ron Paul are NOT libertarians. Rather they're people like the NeoNazi StormTroopers, Don Black, David Duke, and Whacko David Macko. They're otherwise known as White Supremicists, Anti-Semites, or more derisively Jew Haters.

Huckabee has strongly denounced his errant Christian Right extremist supporters. Why can't Ron Paul do the same with his extremists?

|12.4.07 @ 9:00AM|#

KoЯn joins the rEVOLution

Edward|12.4.07 @ 9:34AM|#

"But be assured that Dr. Paul's Rainbow Coalition has room for everyone - Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Jains, atheists, agnostics, [insert name of unpopular sports team] fans, you name it" -- Mad Max

This is the sort of delusional bullshit that's typical of cults. It's as though desperate libertarians have been blinded by a school-girl crush on this wacko. Ron Paul is a garden-variety right-wing Christian who happens to oppose and unpopular war. Big fucking deal.

ed|12.4.07 @ 9:44AM|#

Yes, yes, all the name-calling is witty and tedious...but back to reality for a moment (if indeed we were ever there): when does the pie-in-the-sky Paul campaign finally crash? After Iowa? New Hampshire? Guam? Any predictions? I like Paul, and I believe in voting one's principles, but come on. Better start bracing yourselves now for the inevitable letdown, don't you think?

Ali (aka iih)|12.4.07 @ 9:44AM|#

Franklin-

Ali: word.

Huh?

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 9:58AM|#

"Unpopular War" Edward?

Latest polls show that the American public is evenly divided, with a slight edge to the Pro-Defense side on whether we're winning.

An overwhelming majority now say the Surge has been a success.

This War is only unpopular on leftwing Blogs like Huffington Post, and Daily Kos, and on Rosie O'Donnel's The View.

In fact, it was never really that unpopular to begin with, even in the tough days about 10 months ago when casulaties were high.

Polling just asked "Do you oppose the War." They never asked "Why?" If they had they would have gotten the response from many like me, "I oppose the War cause Bush is being wimpy and isn't fighting it hard enough."

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 10:02AM|#

Ed, I worked for Ron Paul for 12 long years. Let me give you a bit of advice. When it comes to Ron Paul, there's only one rule: Follow the Money!

He'll milk this thing for as long as he can. Long after Feb. 5, and long after Duncan Hunter, Tancredo, Fred Thompson and other also-rans have dropped out, Ron Paul will still be hanging in there.

His intention is to go to the Republican Convention in Minneapolis and seek a speaking slot in prime time.

He does the exact same thing here in Texas with the Texas GOP: He pressures them to give him speaking time.

This will get the Paul-bots opening their wallets for Paul even more.

After August, who knows? But from now until the Convention in August, Ron Paul will be hanging around duping campaign contributors, and getting interviews on leftwing radio and TV shows bashing the Republicans.

In other words, he'll be a royal pain in the ass for another 8 months or so.

Edward|12.4.07 @ 10:20AM|#

But Eric, the war is unpopular--and not just among left-wingers--not because Bush isn't fighting it hard enough, but because he lied to us going into it. Saddam had no connection to 9/11. Ron Paul is right about that. Libertarians and some on the left are so anxous to have an anti-war candidate that they're willing to overlook Ron Paul's extremist religious positions (The founding fathers envisioned a robust Christian nation) and Tancredo-like demonization of immigrants--the very things the Nazis like about him. He's a nutjob, and his libertarian supporters are either delusional or stupid.

|12.4.07 @ 10:20AM|#

Polling just asked "Do you oppose the War." They never asked "Why?" If they had they would have gotten the response from many like me, "I oppose the War cause Bush is being wimpy and isn't fighting it hard enough."

This sounds like a job for Dondero! Hey you fat tub of guts there's nothing stopping you from reenlisting and really taking it to the swarthy hordes!

C'mon who's with me........AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! (He run,s Belushi like from Omega House)

Edward|12.4.07 @ 10:21AM|#

Oh, and he can't win diddlysquat.

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 10:28AM|#

Edward, Saddam had rather strong connections to 9/11. It's just the liberal media completely ignored the evidence, and they trashed Bush for even hinting at it. Like I said, the reason I've soured on Bush is cause he never fights back against the liberal media onslaught.

Read Richard Miniter's book "The Shadow War: How Bush is Winning the War on Terror."

Extensive documentation and evidence of Saddam's ties to Al Qaeda.

And it wasn't only 9/11. Very strong evidence to indicate that it was Saddam who was ultimately behind the Oklahoma City Bombing. Read Jayna Davis's "The Third Terrorist."

|12.4.07 @ 10:30AM|#

Well, just for my fellow Reason Readers, Ron Paul is not a Libertarian. It is tempting to support a candidate that calls himself Libertarian, specially in the ideological dearth of the competition. I almost did, (I almost wrote a check), until I heard him speak. He is not a Libertarian. He talks a good game, but he is against free trade (in particularly against free labor trade). Deep down he is a closet protectionist.
And he pounds the constitution, like conservative christians do the bible, but, like christians, he also interprets its passages as they fit him.
Reagan brought down a famous wall, Paul wants to build it somewhere else....

VM|12.4.07 @ 10:30AM|#

BAWK BAWK, AWIK.

DUNDEROOOOOOO.

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 10:31AM|#

Edward, I agree, Ron Paul and his supporters are delusional and stupid. But it's not because of Ron Paul's stances on domestic issues. Ron Paul is fantastic (save abortion), on the domestic side of the equation.

It's on foreign policy where he's a complete looney tune.

He'd have 10 times as much support in the GOP primaries, if he talked more about tax cuts and spending cuts, and a lot less about foreign policy.

In 1996, he ran as a "Bush Republican," and as the "Taxpayer's Best Friend" for Congress. He harldy ever mentioned foreign policy in the 1990s.

And now all of a sudden that he realizes he can get all sorts of leftwing media like MSNBC, DailyKos, ect... by talking about foreign policy and bashing Bush, he's thrown away the good parts of his platform - the domestic side, and talks only about isolationist surrender-tarian foreign policy.

AWIK DUNDEROOO|12.4.07 @ 10:33AM|#

NOOO-NE-NOOO-NE-NOOOO.

HAI KIDS. I'M AWIK DUNDEROO, AMERIKUN CHICKEN AND FAKE LIBERTARIAN. I AM AFRAID OF EVERYTHING, SO I ENDORSE THE NEO-FASCIST GHOULIANI AND PRETEND HE'S LIBERTARIAN.

I ALSO EAT BELL PEPPERS BUT TELL EVERYBODY THEY'RE JALAPENO PEPPERS, BECAUSE I LIKE SPICY FOOD BUT CANNOT TAKE IT.

I AM THE AMERIKUN CHICKEN. AWIK DUNDEROOOO.

SIGNING OFF.

|12.4.07 @ 10:39AM|#

Edward | December 4, 2007, 10:21am | #

Oh, and he can't win diddlysquat.

As big a pinhead as you are, in this case I have to concede that you might be right! So enlighten me......who does Edward back amongst the "serious" candidates?

VM|12.4.07 @ 10:44AM|#

We'd like to thank EDWIERDOOOO for the Interview.

|12.4.07 @ 11:03AM|#

Most Ron Paul songs are awful. Most YouTube videos are rip offs with some cheesy music blaring over them and some Ronald Reagan qoutes superimposed. Lame.

Straw polls don't mean a whole lot. People are far more willing to take a flyer on a rouge candidate when they know it does not really count. People want rouge candidates in the race to bounce ideas off the front runner candidates.

All that being siad Ron Paul does have internet support and enthusiastic supporters that show up at straw polls. He is on the rise but probably too little too late. If he wants to make a real move he would fire his campaign staff and hire real consultants and spokespeople to help him polish his message and spend the small fortune he has gathered more effectively.

I would vote for RP but I don't think some lame songs on the internet and meet-up groups showing up to straw polls are going to get him much more than perhaps a speaking role at the convention if he's lucky.

I would expect him to run as an independent after the primary and could then fracture the Republicans enough to ensure Hilary sits in the Oval Office Jan of '09.

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 11:44AM|#

You all Ron Paul supporters just got blasted big time over at Politico.com. Y'all better check it out. It hurts. Hurts really, really bad.

And on so many levels:

Hypocrisy by Ron Paul

Dishonesty

& Utter Stupidness by the Ron Paul Campaign Staff

I won't spoil the fun for you all. Go on over to Politico.com, Jonathan Martin's piece, and read it for yourselves.

VM|12.4.07 @ 11:58AM|#

BAWK BAWK.

Edward|12.4.07 @ 12:33PM|#

VM | December 4, 2007, 10:44am | #

We'd like to thank EDWIERDOOOO for the Interview.

I've already warned you cockstains about libeling my name. Blogger has been informed about your violations of their ToS. I've also screen capped your "interview" for the upcoming civil suit against you ass monkeys.

For your sakes I hope "Urkobold" has an attorney on retainer. Fucking fools.

pdog|12.4.07 @ 12:33PM|#

Eric -

I'm guessing thats aimed for the lemming vote. Anyone who has watched any of the debates, read the news or gone to any of his or his supporter's websites know exactly where he stands on Iraq.

|12.4.07 @ 12:36PM|#

Ooooooh! Sounds like its time for a legal defense fund!

Hey fuckwit you never answered my question! Who is Edward mooning over?

Edward|12.4.07 @ 12:47PM|#

Hey fish, you want a piece of this lawsuit too? Mind your own fucking business, numnuts.

Orthodontic Attorney|12.4.07 @ 12:48PM|#

Am there!

Oh. Attorney on Retainer. Not Attorney with Retainer.

bummer. /kicks pebble

Ass Monkey Tuesday|12.4.07 @ 12:53PM|#

Hay! That's using my name improperly. I'm gonna sew.

Edward|12.4.07 @ 12:54PM|#

Keep playing with fire, boys. Keep playing with fire.

|12.4.07 @ 12:55PM|#

ANSWER my question Amanda~! Then have your attorney call me!

VM|12.4.07 @ 12:58PM|#

Navy. Pinto. Kidney. String...

*looks up*.

Oh Hay Hai, Gaiz. Was thinking about beans.

Talented Ass Klown|12.4.07 @ 1:13PM|#

[reading aloud]
And so, H&R character "EDWEIRDOOO", who has never manifested himself, apart from the hot and sweaty imagination of one Mr. Steven Crane, is requesting that he get permission to use Stevo Darkly's bunk for BATIN every other Tuesday for the maximum time of 42 seconds, including cleanup.

Furthermore, he shall cease coveting and lusting after the WEIBSKOBOLD.

Finally, he shall come back to our circus, as we miss him
(signed)
Franklin County, NY County Fair

Roving Reporter|12.4.07 @ 1:28PM|#

This is why EDWEIRDOOO isn't posting right now. HE HAD A MISSION TO COMPLETE!!!

Prosser on Torts|12.4.07 @ 1:33PM|#

Truth is an affirmative defense to a libel claim

|12.4.07 @ 2:26PM|#

And it wasn't only 9/11. Very strong evidence to indicate that it was Saddam who was ultimately behind the Oklahoma City Bombing. Read Jayna Davis's "The Third Terrorist."

And so we discover that Eric Dondero is a conspiracist. As a reminder, here are the three principles of the conspiracism worldview:

* Nothing happens by accident
* Nothing is as it seems
* Everything is connected

These three combine to produce Eric Dondero's paranoid fantasies. On the surface it may have looked like a couple of white skinned quasi-christian nutbags went all disgruntled and loaded a truckup with explosives, but in actuality it was part of a larger more extensive plan by the brown skinned islamofascists who flew planes into the WTC a couple decades later.

But what causes conspiracism? It's the overwhelming psychological need to be right. If you hate government enough, eventually you start seeing evidence that 9/11 was caused by Bush/Cheney. Similarly, if you hate browned skinned muslims enough, eventually you start hallucinating evidence that they're behind every act of evil in the world.

Simply put, it's confirmation bias run amock.

|12.4.07 @ 3:07PM|#

"...It's as though desperate libertarians have been blinded by a school-girl crush on this wacko. Ron Paul is a garden-variety right-wing Christian who happens to oppose and unpopular war. Big fucking deal."

You're of course being selective here. He's also against the USA patriot act, the war on drugs, military commissions act, and the marriage amendment. He's against amnesty but is also against deportation.

You act as if Ron Paul is basically an anti-war Tom Tancredo and that simply isn't the case based on his voting record.

|12.4.07 @ 3:39PM|#

Dunder-head,

1st of all, no, I won't give you my name, phone number, myspace page, or meet you at the mall. So, lose the crush, before I get a restraining order, you pathetic fruitcake.

Secondly, how's your congressional campaign working out for you? hahahahahahahahahahahahaha........

You know, you probably shouldn't try to use a basic training CS gas experience as personal toughness cred; it's really embarrassing. But you have no idea what a chicken hawk you sound like, do you? You use the words "gas chamber" as if you're trying to equate the experience to an archaic form of capital punishment, or even to the experience of Jews in Nazi Germany. It makes you sound like a sniveling coward. Please, stop; you're embarrassing all veterans -- not just yourself.

BTW, if you really believe in the war so much, and that the sacrifice of thousands of lives is such a minor price, why not suit up, and join the front line, tough guy? Why don't you visit the grieving families, and tell them what an insignificant sacrifice the loss of their loved ones was, chicken hawk?

"Victory"? We heard that one 4 years ago. If we've "won the war," as you so boldly claim, Dunder-head, their is no excuse not to heed Dr. Paul's request to bring our troops home, and station them on our southern border. Isn't that right, suhq-chops? Since we've "won," doesn't that mean the war is over? There should be no more shooting, bombing, or dying, then right? Everyone comes home and we throw a tickertape parade, now, right? Mission accomplished? Or is this one of those South Korea type "victories," numb-nutz?

So, liar-boy, you supported Paul until you heard him say something that he never said? Is that right? Ron Paul makes a radical statement such as that American foreign policy has consequences, and your response it to start supporting the guy who claims that's the most startling thing he ever heard? Paul wags his finger at the policy makers, and you attempt to spin it that he's given the finger to the American flag? You, Dunder-head, are a sorry joke. Go crawl into a dark corner somewhere, and hold your breath 'til you turn rigid. No body cares what you think.

Oh, and when are you going to man up, and admit that you wrote that newsletter article, and that Dr. Paul has been covering for your racist @$$ ever since?

|12.4.07 @ 4:30PM|#

Victory in Iraq:

* Victory in Iraq is Defined in Stages
o Short term, Iraq is making steady progress in fighting terrorists, meeting political milestones, building democratic institutions, and standing up security forces.
o Medium term, Iraq is in the lead defeating terrorists and providing its own security, with a fully constitutional government in place, and on its way to achieving its economic potential.
o Longer term, Iraq is peaceful, united, stable, and secure, well integrated into the international community, and a full partner in the global war on terrorism.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/iraq_strategy_nov2005.html

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 5:35PM|#

Victory in Iraq is defined by one simple standard:

Did we get Saddam or not?

We got him. Took longer than expected. But we got him.

Getting Uday and Qusay were bonus prizes.

Everything else is secondary, way down the list in fact.

All that essentially mattered was capturing Saddam Hussein.

Eric Dondero|12.4.07 @ 5:40PM|#

Are you talking about that famous "flat footed" comment?

Are you seriously suggesting that I wrote that?

Umm, sorry, but I think you owe me an apology.

Some facts:

1. That quote came out in 1992. I was not even working for Ron Paul at the time.

2. Lew Rockwell fessed up to it. This was quoted in the Victoria Advocate, Houston Chronicle and other newspapers here in Ron's District in the 1996 Congressional race.

3. The quote came from Ron Paul's Newsletter. I have never written for that publication. That publication was edited by Lew Rockwell.

4. I do not believe, nor have I ever believed that young black men are "flat-footed." I'm not even sure what that means?

You gotta complaint about that famous quote, take it up with Lew Rockwell. He'll tell you himself, that it was his quote.

VM|12.4.07 @ 5:46PM|#

BAWK BAWK.

|12.4.07 @ 6:29PM|#

Victory in Iraq = "Gettin' Saddam"?

Dr. Paul would have happily given W a letter of marque, if he would have presented a case to Congress for Iraq's involvement in 9/11. Heck, if he'd made that case, Paul would have given him a declaration of war. Instead, W gave us a lame story about UN resolutions.

What would Saddam's head have cost? $1B? $10B? How much has this undeclared war cost us? $???,???,???,???.??!!! How much of that has gone into the pockets of Bush/Cheney cronies who "won" no-bid contracts to rebuild Iraq? Oh yeah, and thousands of soldiers' lives. Many more soldiers might even say that Iraq has cost them an arm and a leg.

Dr Paul is the champion of the US Constitution, and W is the chump of UN resolutions.

|12.4.07 @ 7:43PM|#

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY:

"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do." Rudolph Giuliani

Doesn't sound like a "libertarian" to me. Doesn't even sound like a Republican. I don't know if Reagan's big tent is big enough for Rudy. Mussolini would be proud, though.

Edward|12.4.07 @ 9:04PM|#

who does Edward back amongst the "serious" candidates?

Fish,

I'm undecided. I liked Richarson, but he's obviously not going anywhere. If I were a libertarian, I wouldn't support anybody, certainly not the kooky Dr. Paul. I'd just do educational work.

|12.4.07 @ 9:07PM|#

Eric Dondero said...

Yup, Ron Paul WAS more libertarian before May of last year. I was even moderately supportive of him.

Paul's view on the war has not changed since last April and, having watched each debate, I have yet to hear him state anything he hadn't stated prior to May of last year. Do your principles change every year or just since last May?

Eric Dondero said...

Great Franklin! Than we are agreed. You should stop calling yourself a "libertarian" and switch to something like leftist liberal, or "occasionally free market supporting hard leftist," or "anti-American, Islamo-Fascism loving, Paul-tard."

I never said I would stop calling myself libertarian. I just said that I don't care if you call yourself libertarian. And by "you", I mean anyone that supports gun control, a police state, the drug war, nation building, a gov't managed economy and [insert other big gov't program that "mainstream libertarians" support]. Ali has already made it clear why I don't care what you call yourself.

So Eric, when have I ever not supported the free-market? Since I consider myself a market anarchist and can not think of a situation where I would support any gov't involvement in the market, give me a sitution where I would not support free markets. I know you support many left causes (like nation building) but can you name one I support? Also, what makes me anti-American (if you changed your name to "American", you don't need to answer)?

I am constantly amazed that you can continue your nonsense. Have you no shame? Is there anything that embarrasses you? At least Edward, being 12 years old, has an excuse (Edward, if you're really 11 or 13, I'm sorry, please don't sue me).

Eric Dondero said...

Why not pose that question to former Maryland Governor, Republican Bob Ehrlich. He is a big supporter of Medical Marijuana reform, even backing such legislation in Annapolis.

Why didn't I see that? Ehrlich is a libertarian because he supports Medical Marijuana reform and Rudy is a libertarian because Ehrlich supports him. Infallible logic. You're an idiot!

Eric Dondero said...

Really? He can't even get libertarians to back him.

You've already told us that your definition of libertarian is someone who supports gun control, a police state, the drug war, non-defensive wars of agression, a gov't managed economy and [insert other big gov't program that "mainstream libertarians" support] so it's no wonder why Paul can't get "mainstream libertarians" to support him. Of course, he's having less trouble getting the people who you don't consider libertarian to back him (I know how much you love Gordon).

Ali (aka iih) said...

Franklin-

Ali: word.

Huh?

Ali, check here. Basically, I agree.

AFJ said...

...Ron Paul is not a Libertarian.

Yes, he's a Republican. Did you just realize that or are you being technical with that capital "L"?

AFJ said...

He talks a good game, but he is against free trade (in particularly against free labor trade). Deep down he is a closet protectionist.

Please explain what makes you think Paul is against free trade. I know he's against managed trade but that's not free trade. Just to be sure, I did some quick research and I wasn't able to find any Paul votes that were against free trade so I'll be waiting for you to fill us in. And how idiotic of a phrase is "closet protectionist"? What does a "closet protectionist" sit at home just hoping someone else passes tariffs or, when they blow out the candles on their cake, wish for trade quotas and regulation?

Eric Dondero said...

Edward, I agree...

Why doesn't that surprise me?

Eric Dondero said...

He harldy ever mentioned foreign policy in the 1990s.

Did you forget about Kosovo? He talked about that UN debacle nonstop until it was over. Funny how you "mainstream libertarians" agreed with him then.

-----------------------------

Listen to Talib get deep on religion.

Edward|12.4.07 @ 11:48PM|#

franklin

Thanks to your mighty efforts, libertarianism will be associated with kookdom a la Ron Paul. On the upside, in the end few will have heard of either libertarianism or Ron Paul.

I'm 42 and independtly wealthy, by the way.

Edward|12.5.07 @ 1:28AM|#

Nash

Ron Paul is just not an anti-war Tancredo. He's much worse. Tancredo has never used the shameful demogoguery of claiming that the Constitution is replete with references to God in order to enlist the support of simpletons who think the federal government is waging a war on religion. This is the Christian identity trash that makes Ron Paul such a darling of the extremist right.

Eric Dondero|12.5.07 @ 9:48AM|#

Franklin, do I say Rudy Giuliani IS A LIBERTARIAN?

No, I do not. I say Rudy Giuliani is a "libertarian-leaner" and sometimes I say, Rudy Giuliani is a Moderate/libertarian or Centrist/libertarian.

I put Giuliani right smack dab on the line between both Quadrants, much like Arnold Schwarzenegger or Cong. David Dreier of California.

And that, Franklin, is the very best we can ever hope for in our lifetimes.

(Admittedly, you are much younger than I am, so you may last another 20 years more than me. Though, you are very much overweight, so that counters your young age in the equation.)

What we have here Franklin is a simple case of self-described "Anarchists" such as yourself, seeing the Good as the enemy of the Perfect.

Giuliani is not an Anarchist. (Though, notably a top Anarchist Todd Seavey just endorsed Giuliani.)

He's not even a Radical Libertarian.

He's not even a "Middle of the Quadrant Libertarian."

He's a Centrist who leans libertarian.

Of course, Radical Libertarians would despise Giuliani. He's more of a threat to you all, than someone like Huckabee who has no libertarian leanings whatsoever.

For if, Centrist libertarianism or "libertarian lite" succeeds, there's no need for your Libertarian Hard agenda.

Rock on Franklin. And stay away from those Twinkies.

Ali (aka iih)|12.5.07 @ 9:54AM|#

Franklin-

Word!

|12.5.07 @ 12:12PM|#

Nash wrote:
"Tancredo has never used the shameful demogoguery of claiming that the Constitution is replete with references to God..."

Can you provide the quote where RP says that "the Constitution is REPLETE w/references to God"? I'd be interested in reading that in context, because there is only one reference to Christ in the Constitution, although the Declaration of Indepedence is replete w/references to God. Is someone, perhaps, confused? Quote please.

Thanks.

|12.5.07 @ 1:39PM|#

Hi David-

there was a retraction in the paper you quoted. Please click on the link in your own article and read what it says regarding the paul campaign 'bringing people in to vote".

You can do better than that. That is just plain sloppy.

(...)

Editor's note: The following correction appeared in Monday's Times-Dispatch. The online version of the story below has been changed to correct the error.

Supporters of Texas Rep. Ron Paul drove on their own and paid their way to participate in a presidential straw poll at the 24th annual Republican Advance during the weekend in Arlington County, said Dennis Fusaro, Paul's national field director. A story on Page B1 in Sunday's paper incorrectly reported that Paul bused in supporters.

CR|12.5.07 @ 4:45PM|#

I think that one of the biggest things Paul has done so far is to keep the Mainstream Media from labeling Guliana as Libertarian. I remember a few months ago the WSJ gave him that label but I haven't seen it since. This is a very very good thing. If not for Ron Paul I think a lot more mainstream media outlets would be labeling Guliana as the libertarian candidate among the GOP field.

|12.5.07 @ 5:38PM|#

CR wrote:
"I think that one of the biggest things Paul has done so far is to keep the Mainstream Media from labeling Guliana as Libertarian."
| December 5, 2007, 4:45pm |

Yes, that is a good thing. Can you imagine. If Paul weren't in the race, duh masses might start believing that "libertarian" was just another word for a cross-dressing, baby-killing fascist.

Edward|12.5.07 @ 5:45PM|#

Can you provide the quote where RP says that "the Constitution is REPLETE w/references to God"? I'd be interested in reading that in context, because there is only one reference to Christ in the Constitution, although the Declaration of Indepedence is replete w/references to God. Is someone, perhaps, confused? Quote please.

Here it is: http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul148.html

|12.5.07 @ 5:46PM|#

Hey, everybody! Look who just endorsed Giuliani: Hitler, Stalin, and Mao!

Hey, everybody! Look who just endorsed Huckabee: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and John Edwards!

Hey, everybody! Look who just endorsed Mitt Romney: Waffle House!

Hey, everybody! Look who just endorsed Fred Thompson: Sominex!

Hey, everybody! Look who just renounced Ron Paul: the IRS, the UN, and Vicente Fox!

Edward|12.5.07 @ 5:49PM|#

BTW, there are four references to God in the Declaration of Independence. Look up "replete."

|12.5.07 @ 8:25PM|#

Edward,

I'd rather look up the Paul quote that supposedly came from, if you have it. I'd rather not debate whether there are too many or too few references to God in the DoI.

|12.5.07 @ 8:27PM|#

Oops. Just saw that. Gonna go check it out now.

|12.5.07 @ 8:45PM|#

Yep. He says "both replete" alright. Well, unless he's referring to rather vague "refernces to God," then it's clearly a mistake. The DoI qualifies, in my opinion, but the Constitution contains only one incidental reference, and clearly doesn't qualify...unless "references" means "vague allusion," or unless "replete" is a simple overstatement.

Keeping things in perspective, though, I'd hate to have my every word choice examined so thoroughly. After all, if he'd said "both containing refernces to" instead of "both replete with references to," we wouldn't even be talking about it. Probably a poor choice of words, evincing hyperbole, but nothing else.

|12.6.07 @ 12:57AM|#

Edward said...

Thanks to your mighty efforts, libertarianism will be associated with kookdom a la Ron Paul.

First, if "libertarianism will be associated with kookdom a la Ron Paul", it will not be for any rational reason and I could care less about the opinions of people incapable of rational thought. Second, whether or not libertarianism is viewed in a negative light doesn't concern me. What concerns me is trying to make the most of a once in a lifetime oppurtunity.

Edward said...

I'm 42 and independtly wealthy, by the way.

Maybe too wealthy if you have enough free time to try and convince libertarians that Paul is a nazi or he secretly wants to impose biblical law.

Edward said...

Tancredo has never used the shameful demogoguery of claiming that the Constitution is replete with references to God in order to enlist the support of simpletons who think the federal government is waging a war on religion.

So, he exaggerates the number of God references in historical documents and he lets racist people donate money to him. Is that all you have on Paul? If so, do you even realize how weak your material is?

Eric Dondero said...

And that, Franklin, is the very best we can ever hope for in our lifetimes.

No, the best I can (realistically) hope for in my lifetime is Ron Paul (an acceptable, major party candidate). Giuliani believes in many things that make him wholly unacceptable to me.

Eric Dondero said...

(Admittedly, you are much younger than I am, so you may last another 20 years more than me. Though, you are very much overweight, so that counters your young age in the equation.)

I'm curious, who do you think I am? I can assure you that we've never met in person. I was born when Ford was in the Whitehouse so, you're correct, I am younger but I didn't think you were in your 50's. And, although I have a healthy appetite, I am quite thin.

Eric Dondero said...

What we have here Franklin is a simple case of self-described "Anarchists" such as yourself, seeing the Good as the enemy of the Perfect.

No, if that were the case, I wouldn't be supporting Paul. Paul is the good, not the perfect. It's just been so long since we've had anything better than crap that Paul appears to be a saviour. Rudy is the enemy of good and perfect and a bunch of other stuff.

------------------------

Listen!.