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Those Other Republican Candidates
Those few, hardy libertarians who aren't lining up with Ron Paul occasionally make the case for Fred Thompson or John McCain as the small government-er's next hope. (Not everybody agrees with Matt Welch, or thinks that medical marijuana is a pressing issue, or worries about the First Amendment...) Michael Crowley (who interviewed Brian Doherty for a Paul piece) is on the ground with McCain in New Hampshire:
[I]n response to an audience question about George Bush's reliance on "signing statements" to get around acts of Congress, McCain vowed that he would never use them. "It's wrong. It should not be done," he said. "I would never issue a signing statement. I would only veto or sign a bill into law."
An honest answer? The first attempt by a Republican to peel back some Washington-hating Paul voters? It's an ancillary issue, anyway, because. McCain's campaigning on the troop surge.
Meanwhile, John Frank follows Fred Thompson on the Florida campaign trail and... well...
The meager crowd, no more than 100, waited in the cool bright morning for twice as long as the speech itself lasted. Just feet from the stage, along the ledge of the pier, a blowfish rotted in the sun.
It's not just an anecdote. It's really bad.
In May, before Thompson had even entered the race, the Panhandle represented the backbone of his support. The Times poll then showed him stronger in that region that any other, solidly in third behind Giuliani and Arizona Sen. John McCain.
But six months later—after a staff shakeup, panned campaign announcement, news he lobbied for an abortion rights group and an overall lackluster campaign—Thompson has fallen from grace. The Panhandle is now his second-weakest region, with only 6 percent of voters there supporting him.
I figured this might happen. There are miles and miles of daylight between Thompson and Huckabee on policy. Thompson is a Club for Growth supply-sider, Jack Kemp meets Horatio Alger. Huckabee is, as Jonah Goldberg points out, a progressive, "the bastard child of Lou Dobbs and Pat Robertson." But neither candidate is running on policy. Thompson and Huckabee are running on personality, and the grumpy TV star is unable to compete on that field with the avuncular ex-preacher.
|11.20.07 @ 4:29PM|#
Just feet from the stage, along the ledge of the pier, a
blowfish rotted in the sun.
Damn. And that was going to be his pick for VP...
Eric Dondero|11.20.07 @ 4:34PM|#
Thompson has picked up the strong endorsement of longtime
libertarian hero Tom McClintock in California.
And Romney has picked up backing from William Weld, Cong. Tom
Feeney of Florida, and hardcore libertarian Republican State
Senator Bob Hedlund of Mass.
McCain's got Jeff Flake, and John Shadegg.
Ron Paul's got a few top libertarian endorsers: WY State Sen. Cale
Case, MT State Senator Jerry O'Neil whose also a Libertarian Party
member, and a couple NH State Reps.
Of course, Giuliani has the most libertarian supporters: Steve
Forbes, Dennis Miller, Deroy Murdock, Ryan Sager, Cong. Ed Royce,
CA Assmb. Mark Villines, MI State Rep. Jack Brandenburg, and a host
of media personalities.
|11.20.07 @ 4:36PM|#
I bet Thompson's "rally" went something like this:
"Could I get a round of applause, please?"
*clap*clap*
"Thanks, Mom. Now could you run around the room while you're doing
that and make it sound like a group?"
Joel|11.20.07 @ 4:48PM|#
"But neither candidate is running on policy".
Horrible statement. Every stump speech for Fred is focused on
policy. When he talks about being a consistent conservative, he
then talks about the issues that are important to him: federalism,
immigration, national security (Iran, Iraq, etc.), social issues
such as abortion. See
http://infredheads.blogspot.com/2007/11/freds-iowa-mailer.html to
see the mailer he is using in Iowa. Even the article you site talks
about his message of a stronger, larger military.
The substance may not always be reported, but it is clearly
there.
|11.20.07 @ 4:53PM|#
Heh. The first link in Google when search for "huckabee" is to a paid link for his campaign. You can actually cost him money by going to his website.
VM|11.20.07 @ 4:57PM|#
pdog - yah. And DUNDEROOO, too.
Let's get Joel, DUNDEROOO, and Regina (other thread below), and
take them out for cupcakes and hot chocolate.
Captain Chaos (now in thrall t|11.20.07 @ 5:12PM|#
PDog-Well, you see, Dennis Miller favors the war and the
veterans who will soon come home and boff the shit out of your
girlfriend/wife, who fantasizes about Iraq veterans when you're
with her. And 9/11 changed everything. And Ron Paul will fail to
drink the blood of every last man, woman and child in Iraq.
Therefore, Dennis Miller is a libertarian. QED.
Welcome to DONDEROOOOO land, and mind the dodo birds.
|11.20.07 @ 5:22PM|#
http://www.ronpaulgraphs.com/rp_vs_huck_today.html
Huck is trying to have a big fund raising day. Let's show him that
the biggest day he ever had, doesn't equal the change in our
pockets.
Donate now at RonPaul2008.com
|11.20.07 @ 5:24PM|#
Please, TLB, if anyone's going to respond to Jesse Larner at HuffPo, make sure to mention that he confuses Russell Kirk with someone named Roland Kirk. It's pretty funny.
Tom Walls|11.20.07 @ 5:26PM|#
There was a questionable, unsourced announcement yesterday that
Ron Paul had lent his endorsement to Jim Gilmore's upcoming bid for
Va. Senate. It said nothing about free markets and individual
liberty and read like a hollow endorsement letter written by a
non-ideological staffer, and was signed with Ron's presidential
campaign address, not his Congressional one, like you would expect
in an real endorsement letter.
It was probably a Gilmore supporter trying to capitalize on Ron's
insurgent popularity.
|11.20.07 @ 5:40PM|#
TLB, you might want to post that over at some Objectivist website. They will probably care a lot more than anyone here (ed and Ayn Randian, excepted).
squarooticus|11.20.07 @ 6:02PM|#
TLB, I read the first page and a half of that and rightly
dismissed it as the rantings of someone trying to prove false.
Anyone who says
[libertarians] insist that they have every legal and moral
right to own as many guns as they please, pay no taxes, educate
their children at home, and live free of any law except those
governing, in the most direct manner, their own security and that
of their neighbors
like it's a bad thing is obviously operating under a different
system of logic than I am.
|11.20.07 @ 6:16PM|#
Ok, Dondero, you win. I'm voting for Guiliani now because Mark Villines (who the f**k is that?) et al. are supporting him.
|11.20.07 @ 6:25PM|#
Thompson has picked up the strong endorsement of longtime libertarian hero Tom McClintock in California.
I'm personally a fan of Tom McClintock. I've even voted for the
man. But he is not a libertarian! He is a social conservative that
just happens to understand that government should stay out of
economics.
Nash|11.20.07 @ 6:33PM|#
"Thompson has picked up the strong endorsement of longtime
libertarian hero Tom McClintock in California."
I've voted for McClintock. Twice. Once for Gov in the recall
election (sorry Arnie) and again when he ran for LT. Gov.
I still like the guy but I think the endorsement was a mistake. He
should have waited. To endorse Paul now is a poor move politically,
to endorse him after he wins New Hampshire would be genius.
I'll still support Tom in his future runs at office in the state
but he's already heard of my disgreement with him. He chose the
wrong candidate.
|11.20.07 @ 6:34PM|#
I sort of like Thompson the more I hear him speak, too bad being an honest and consistent federalist is causing him to sink in the pools.
|11.20.07 @ 7:38PM|#
David Weigel,
You caused me to look up "avuncular." Based on what it said, it
seems Thompson would be more avuncular than Huckabee.
Not that I'm looking for avuncular candidates.
Hell, I don't vote. But you knew that.
Rice Bingham|11.20.07 @ 8:00PM|#
Oh Dundaroo, you silly, silly boy. Perhaps you'd convince more people if you, like dropped the names of like, a dozen or so old school faux libertarians. Yeah, that'd really impress folks. It's like Joey Lawrence used to say.. .
Eric Dondero|11.20.07 @ 8:43PM|#
Who is Mark Villines?
Remember the move last year in California by Democrat legislators
to ban smoking on public beaches, parks, and even in privately
owned vehicles?
Well, Villines, from Bakersfield, was the one Legislator who led
the Republicans against the ban. They were successful.
Of course, the libertarian media just ignored the story, cause,
well Villines is a Republican, after all.
Eric Dondero|11.20.07 @ 8:46PM|#
Brandybuck, if Tom McClintock is not a libertarian, than nobody
is.
He is simply one of the greatest single libertarian state
legislators in the Nation today. And to say that he is not a
libertarian is downright insulting, and displays an enormous amount
of ignorance on your part.
Even the most diehard of Radical Libertarian Party activists in
California love McClintock.
Tell ya what.
Whose the most Radical Libertarian in the entire State?
Gene Berkman right?
Ask Gene, if he thinks McClintock is a libertarian.
And, McClintock is close friends with CA LP State Chair Aaron
Starr. Ask Aaron what he thinks?
BTW, McClintock has been affiliated with the RLC since the early
1990s.
Eric Dondero|11.20.07 @ 9:22PM|#
Wow! You all won't believe this news just breaking...
Michelle Kubby, wife of Libertarian Presidential candidate Steve
Kubby, has announced she's leaving the Kubby Campaign to work for
Rudy Giuliani for President.
Source: Stephen Gordon of ThirdPartyWatch.com
Gene Berkman|11.20.07 @ 9:27PM|#
Sure, I like Tom McClintock, and he is a conservative with
strong libertarian tendencies. I organized a Libertarians for
McClintock website, but I don't have to agree with him on
everything.
I especially don't agree with his support for Fred Thompson, who
wants more spending on the military and war. There is a post about
this on www.libertariansforpaul.com
Bingo|11.20.07 @ 9:34PM|#
Hey Dondero, quick question:
Take a look at the support numbers for Ron Paul among young people.
Substantial among that age bracket, but skimpy when compared to the
voting population as a whole. It's pretty easy to sacrifice their
votes, its only a few percentage points after all.
Consider the fact that these people are young, they've grown up
with "anarchist" concepts like the internet and thrive in such an
environment. Its pretty reasonable to expect that other kids
growing up in such an "anarchist" culture will also hold similar
views to these young adults.
Now, what if we took those numbers and added 4 years onto them? How
about another 4 years? What will these numbers look like in 20
years? Do you really think this voting bloc is a fad? What does
this mean for the current political establishment and your
career?
Fluffy|11.20.07 @ 9:41PM|#
First of all, when will Giuliani renounce the support of known
genocidal maniac Eric Dondero?
Rudy must return all donations, solicited or not, from Mr. Dondero
and must distance himself from Mr. Dondero's support. If he fails
to do this, we can conclude that Rudy agrees with Mr. Dondero's
desire to murder women and children in order to satisfy his lust
for revenge.
Second of all, there's a real, real easy way to determine who the
libertarian in the race is, and it's by asking yourself this: If
Ron Paul and Rudy Giuliani competed for the Presidential nomination
of the Libertarian Party, which of them would win?
|11.20.07 @ 10:16PM|#
Donderooooooo,
Word of advice: appeals to authority generally work better if the
people you're trying to convince know who you're talking about. I
mean, if I said that Zap Rowsdower just endorsed Ron Paul, I'd make
as much of an impression on you as you make on me by dropping
whats-his-name's name.
Anyway, I don't care if every libertarian from time immemorial
lines up to endorse Rudy...that doesn't change what he is. You
can't polish a turd.
|11.20.07 @ 10:17PM|#
Fluffy,
Genocide isn't a crime per se. Ethnic groups don't have a right to
life, individuals do.
|11.20.07 @ 10:32PM|#
How to post like Dondero:
Libertarian [name drop name drop name drop] has endorsed
Giuliani.
And Giuliani [tax cuts] and [9/11].
I have [age references] since before [more age references]. And
[name drop].
And [scary things about Muslims] you [little girls, wussies,
faggots].
You're all [liberals, pacifists, radical anarchists].
Eric Dondero|11.20.07 @ 11:08PM|#
Gene, we are mortal enemies. Have been for years. And I thought I would never have said this. But thank you for backing me up on Tom McClintock. You may be a son-of-a-bitch, but at least you're an honest SOB.
Eric Dondero|11.20.07 @ 11:10PM|#
So Fluffy, are you saying that the Libertarian Party represents
the entire libertarian movement?
In fact, the LP is a very small segment of the libertarian
movement, which includes: Cato, Reason, Republican Liberty Caucus,
Club for Growth, Grover Norquist's ATR, WSJ Editorial Board, State
free market think tanks, ect...
Fluffy|11.20.07 @ 11:20PM|#
No Eric, I'm saying it's absolutely idiotic to assert that
Giuliani is the "true" libertarian in the race if there is another
candidate who would garner greater support among, you know, actual
libertarians.
But I know that doesn't matter to you, since you see a Giuliani
Presidency as your best chance to get to go all Jeffrey Dahmer on
some brown person, and compared to the blood of innocents that you
imagine Rudy will give you, what can Paul possibly offer you?
Tell me, when Giuliani moves from city to city, whose job is it to
move the coffin and the Transylvanian earth - yours, or Norman
Podhoretz'?
Bingo|11.20.07 @ 11:45PM|#
Hey Dondero, can you answer my question or are you incapable of looking beyond a single election cycle?
|11.21.07 @ 1:55AM|#
Brandybuck, if Tom McClintock is not a libertarian, than nobody is.
Yes, he is a very strong fiscal conservative. But there is more to libertarianism than free market Hayekian economics. Where does he stand on social issues?
Legalization of marijuana and cocaine?
Legalization of prostitution?
Legalization of gambling outside of Indian casinos?
Does he oppose warrantless search and seizures?
Does he oppose no knock raids?
|11.21.07 @ 2:00AM|#
"Rudy Giuliani, Pat Toomey, and the Wall Street Journal editorial board" are not the first three names I think of when I think "prominent libertarians."
Dustin|11.21.07 @ 2:43AM|#
Tell me, when Giuliani moves from city to city, whose job is
it to move the coffin and the Transylvanian earth - yours, or
Norman Podhoretz'?
I'm sorry, Fluffy, but I found this so funny that I'm compelled to
steal it. In the coming weeks and months I'll find manifold ways to
mention it in conversation. And I'll be taking all the
credit too.
bill|11.21.07 @ 6:34AM|#
Signing statements are stupid anyway because they are totally worthless. It doesn't matter what some President writes on the bill before he signs it. Congress makes the laws and the law is the law (or should be) no matter what the Pres thinks.
Eric Dondero|11.21.07 @ 8:17AM|#
Brandybuck, we in the RLC pinned down McClintock in the early
1990s about his position on marijuana, before we gave him a couple
$1,000 contributions for his Congressional races.
He told us that he would favor legislation to allow for medicinal
marijuana.
I believe there was an article or two written about this in
REPUBLICAN LIBERTY, (RLC's monthly publication at the time). If
need be I could go back to the archives to confirm this.
Cocaine? I don't think legalization of Cocaine should be the
standard in judging someone's libertarianism. Radical
libertarianism yes, but libertarian lite - NO.
Eric Dondero|11.21.07 @ 8:19AM|#
Michael, that's because you're a Radical Libertarian and not a
Mainstream Libertarian.
The first name I think of when I think of prominent libertarian is
DENNIS MILLER!!
The second and third are John Stossell and Neal Boortz.
If you're an extremist Libertarian, sure, you're going to think of
George Phillies, Kubby, Badnarik, Jacob Hornberger, et.al.
The libertarian movement is vast and wide. It's not limited to a
small section in the upper right hand corner of the Libertarian
Quadrant of the WSPQ.
Eric Dondero|11.21.07 @ 8:21AM|#
Bingo, there's a major article on RCP right now about Giuliani's
appeal to young people. The pollsters can't figure it out. Rudy's
got an enormous amount of support on college campuses.
Check it out: www.realclearpolitics.com
x,y|11.21.07 @ 9:17AM|#
Dondero,
You keep up with this "mainstream libertarian" bullsh*t, and it's
going to become a pejorative (as it has already on this site), not
a compliment.
|11.21.07 @ 9:42AM|#
Eric, as the great Inigo Montoya said, I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Eric Dondero|11.21.07 @ 9:48AM|#
x,y are you saying that Mainstream libertarians or Moderate
libertarians don't exist?
All libertarians have to be radical libertarians? Gotta support
legalized heroin, immediate privatization of all public highways,
and and end to any and all forms of taxation, or one cannot call
themselves a "libertarian"?
|11.21.07 @ 10:00AM|#
Rudy's got an enormous amount of support on college
campuses.
Strange then that he can't muster much support from his two college
aged children. What do they know that their peers don't?
ed|11.21.07 @ 10:10AM|#
I'm voting for Guiliani now
It is my prediction that America will not elect a man whose name is
so consistently misspelled by the electorate. We dullards need to
keep it simple: Bush, Clinton, Bush...
|11.21.07 @ 10:16AM|#
I seem to recall Eric Rittberg, before he morphed into Eric Dondero, being a pretty reasonable guy with a bigger tent version of libertarianism than the LP, but still not that much larger that a Guiliani could fit under it. I'd like to see the post-9/11 Dondero list where his tent stakes are placed now in terms of what foreign, domestic, economic and social policies place one inside or outside the libertarian tent. What are the litmus tests (e.g. no libertarian will support draft/national service.)
Fluffy|11.21.07 @ 10:29AM|#
Dondero supports genocide, so I'm guessing pretty much nobody is
outside his big tent of libertarianism.
Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot - all mainstream libertarians to Eric.
|11.21.07 @ 10:46AM|#
Please, TLB, if anyone's going to respond to Jesse Larner at
HuffPo, make sure to mention that he confuses Russell Kirk with
someone named Roland Kirk.
I can see how easy it would be to confuse a traditionalist 'deep
thinker' with an avant-garde jazz musician.
|11.21.07 @ 10:51AM|#
Gene, we are mortal enemies. Have been for years. And I thought I would never have said this. But thank you for backing me up on Tom McClintock. You may be a son-of-a-bitch, but at least you're an honest SOB.
Mortal enemies? When's the last time you tried to kill the
guy?
(Hint: like "libertarian", this seems to be a word you've lost your
grip upon.)
|11.21.07 @ 11:24AM|#
DENNIS MILLER!!
"If you let the mothers of this country vote on it, guns would be
nothing but a sad memory."
"I don't believe in abortion."
Yeah, Dunderfuck, that's quite a libertarian you have there.
|11.21.07 @ 11:28AM|#
"I'd have a lot more respect for death-penalty supporters if so
many of them weren't cross-enrolled in the NRA."
- Dennis Miller
Chucklehead|11.21.07 @ 12:27PM|#
Tell me, when Giuliani moves from city to city, whose job is
it to move the coffin and the Transylvanian earth - yours, or
Norman Podhoretz'?
That was beautiful. Kudos Fluffy.
Eric Dondero|11.21.07 @ 12:39PM|#
Creech, simple. The lithmus test is 66/66.
If someone scores below 66/66 on the WSPQ he/she is not a
libertarian. If they score above 66/66 he/she is a
libertarian.
Now, I'm more than willing to work with and support those who are
just on or below the line, like say a 55/55 scorer, or a 70/50
supporter.
Giuliani? He'd probably score a 90 on Economics, and maybe a 50 or
60 on Social issues: "Yes" on opposition to the Draft, a "Maybe" on
Adult Porn, a "Maybe" on Gun Rights, "Yes" or "Maybe" on Sexual
Freedom, and a "No" on Drug Legalization.
I'd say that's pretty good. Even if you scored him pessimistically
he'd still get an 80 or so on Eco, and a 50 on Social.
|11.21.07 @ 1:08PM|#
Eric, Giuliani is nothing more than "a little man in search of a
balcony."
If he's "libertarian", then so was Mussolini.
Eric Dondero|11.21.07 @ 1:12PM|#
If he's not at least libertarian-leaning, than the entire
Country could be described as "Fascist."
You look at it from the perspective of a Radical or Anarchist
Libertarian.
Sure, from you're perfect 99/99 or 100/100 vantage point Nobody
measures up.
Just remember, the Center point for the libertarian movement is
75/75, IT IS NOT 100/100 as you'd like to make it out to be.
Someone who is at 67/67 has just as much right to call themselves a
"libertarian" as you do at 100/100.
Eric Dondero|11.21.07 @ 1:13PM|#
Grumpy Realist, tell us please, if someone asked you to name a "Moderate Libertarian" elected official or celebrity or media person who would you name?
x,y|11.21.07 @ 2:34PM|#
Dondero,
I already knew you were an a**hat, but now I know you don't read
well.
I said:
You keep up with this "mainstream libertarian" bullsh*t, and it's going to become a pejorative (as it has already on this site), not a compliment.
And you responded with:
x,y are you saying that Mainstream libertarians or Moderate libertarians don't exist?....
You, sir, are a nincompoop of the highest order.
|11.21.07 @ 2:42PM|#
Eric Dondero says
McClintock...would favor legislation to allow for medicinal marijuana.
Sounds good to me, Rittberg.
The FDA says marijuana has no additive medical benefit of any kind, that the illegal trafficking in marijuana is so great that it makes much more sense to keep it illegal. I will keep it illegal.
-Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani
August 17, Merrimack, N.H.
Sounds bad to me, Rittberg. Real bad.
So geez, Eric, where do you think the guy who thinks
cancer and other patients deserve a life of pain and suffering, who
put Michael Milken in jail, who ordered a crackdown on
prostitution, who only reduced taxes when the State Legislature in
Albany told him to, stands on the Nolan Chart?
Of course, I could ask "are you really this fucking stupid?"
But then from the other day when you couldn't tell the difference
between military training and the torture of detainees, I already
have and answer.
|11.21.07 @ 2:56PM|#
Who is Mark Villines?
Eric, a google search of "Mark Villines" gets exactly zero
results.
If your going to insist on name dropping get the spelling
right.
You see that's the reason I don't namedrop my contacts from nearly
forty years around libertarians. I don't really remember most of
their names.
I only remember yours because every time I heard it it was preceded
by "that asshole".
|11.21.07 @ 4:09PM|#
"The FDA says marijuana has no additive medical benefit of any
kind, that the illegal trafficking in marijuana is so great that it
makes much more sense to keep it illegal. I will keep it
illegal."
On that basis, alcohol and tobacco should be made illegal since
they have no medical benefit.
Eric Dondero|11.21.07 @ 4:22PM|#
x,y,
Real clever there. Call me names so that you can avoid answering
the question.
Again, do moderate libertarians and/or mainstream libertarians
exist in your world?
And if so, can you give us a couple names of politicians or
celebrities you would view as moderate libertarians.
And please don't give me any of this bullshit about Minarchist vs.
Anarchist. Both the chists occupy only an extreme fringe corner of
the Libertarian Quadrant. They are essentially one in the
same.
I'm talking real live moderate libertarians.
|11.21.07 @ 4:34PM|#
Dondero,
How does anyone who makes a statement like this:
The FDA says marijuana has no additive medical benefit of any kind, that the illegal trafficking in marijuana is so great that it makes much more sense to keep it illegal. I will keep it illegal.
-Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani
August 17, Merrimack, N.H.
get anywhere near the libertarian quadrant of the Nolan
Chart?
Answer that, motherfucker!
|11.21.07 @ 4:42PM|#
Oh, and again Dondero, Who is Mark Villines?
No results from that name on Google.
But well if some CA politico opposes a smoking ban where does that
put us?
Barney Frank is in favor of gay rights. Does that make him a
libertarian?
Almost every Democrat politicians say he/she is in favor of
abortion rights. Does that make everyone of them a libertarian?
Eric Dondero|11.21.07 @ 5:20PM|#
I ain't answering any of you all's silly-ass question, until you
answer mine.
Is there such a thing as a Moderate libertarian? And if so, kindly
name one or two of them?
Do all libertarians need to be radicals?
Can someone score 68/68 on the WSPQ and still be considered a
"libertarian"? Or, is libertarian just limited to those who score
100/100?
|11.21.07 @ 6:34PM|#
Eric, I've already answered that a number of establishment
Republican (and Democrat) pols fall into a place somewhere on a
libertarian continuum.
My question is, what lies do you have to tell to get most of your
alleged "libertarians" into the libertarian quadrant of th Nolan
Chart.
Hey look, my standard is the Nolan Chart. You have a problem with
that?
|11.21.07 @ 6:46PM|#
Eric, if this is the WSPQ test
you're speaking of, the your boy Benito scores a big fat ZERO based
on his publicly announced positions. Actually, so do more than half
of your "libertarians".
Man alive, this isn't a one hundred percent issue. You are claiming
that people who score ZERO percent belong in the libertarian
quadrant.
|11.21.07 @ 6:53PM|#
So, again Eric, who the fuck is this Mark Villines, who get
exactly ZERO results if you Goggle his name?
Dropping names is bad enough. Making up names to drop
is....well.....what is it, I ask?
|11.21.07 @ 7:18PM|#
Google...Google...godammit! Sonofabitch Rittberg gets me so fucking upset I can't even spel rite. Fuck!
Eric Dondero|11.21.07 @ 9:32PM|#
Okay Isaac, I asked you to name some names of some Moderate
libertarians. You failed to do that.
As for Giuliani, he scores 60/60 on the ontheissues.org site, which
uses a modified version of the WSPQ. ontheissues.org is notoriously
unbiased, non-partisan and does not take sides with any of the
Presidential candidates. They look into their past voting records
in depth.
I suggest if you want to bitch at someone bitch at them, and leave
me the fuck alone.
Eric Dondero|11.21.07 @ 9:33PM|#
It's Mike Villines. I'm not sure if I have the spelling exactly correct. He's a Republican State Assemblyman from Bakersfield, might be Fresno? He's not an obscure legislator, and practically everyone in California politics knows who he is.
Eric Dondero|11.21.07 @ 9:35PM|#
Isaac, why don't you just pick up the mother-fucking phone and
call me direct?
If you feel so strongly, want to just let it rip, here's my cell -
832-896-9505.
You can even call me tomorrow on Thanksgiving Day. Or even today,
which happens to be my 45th Birthday.
But don't be surprised if I return the fire.
C'mon with it, pussy boy non-Veteran.
Eric Dondero|11.21.07 @ 9:36PM|#
The test I prefer to score Giuliani and others on is located
here:
www.politicalquiz.us
Giuliani scores quite high, almost a 90% libertarian.
|11.21.07 @ 10:38PM|#
DONDEROOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
You support killing people for the crime of being related
to a terrorist, or for even living near a terrorist. It is
not possible to both a) hold that position, and b) be a
libertarian.
You display a profound lack of understanding of
libertarianism, so your lists of "libertarians" may as well be
lists of Sesame Street muppets or flavors of Progresso soup, for
all the relevance they have to a discussion of libertarian-leaning
candidates.
As a veteran of the US Army, I hereby grant my veteran status to
Isaac Bartram, as he is a true American, honest and courageous, and
he embodies the spirit of the America I swore to defend.
By the way, on 9/11, I was in the Army, and stationed overseas.
Where the hell were you, oh great hero? I don't recall you telling
the story of how you rushed right down to reenlist.
Kindly fuck off.
Asharak|11.21.07 @ 11:08PM|#
It's amusing how Dondero seems to think anyone who brings up
Giuliani's drug-warring or contempt for civil liberties is a
"radical libertarian" or "anarchist", as if many people here would
consider both to be insults.
It would be poetic justice if Giuliani gets the Republican
nomination and wins, and a couple of years from now, Dondero gets
busted with a bag of weed and has a toilet plunger handle shoved up
his butt for resisting arrest (and that's if the cops haven't
already shot him 19 times).
Or maybe a neighbor who doesn't like him will just call Homeland
Security and say he's a terrorist.
Asharak|11.21.07 @ 11:10PM|#
Has anyone made an idiot/troll list? Here's what I got so
far:
- Eric Dondero
- TLB
- Edward
- Guy Montag
|11.22.07 @ 12:00AM|#
For the most part, I think this is kind of a silly argument; it
doesn't really matter if it is accurate to label Rudy a libertarian
or not; I just know that the sum total of his positions make him a
completely unacceptable candidate to me.
That being said, I don't think Rudy is clearly more libertarian
than say, Obama, since no matter how you slice it, opposition to
foreign interventionism is clearly a libertarian position. His lack
of concern for civil liberties (the most significant libertarian
issue in the current political climate) and his support of the drug
war really make the case for Rudy as an even moderate libertarian
pretty weak. I'm not too into litmus tests, but if you can't even
support medical marijuana legalization, one of the few libertarian
policies that an overwhelming majority of Americans support, than
it's pretty difficult for me to buy you as even a "moderate"
libertarian.
Eric Dondero|11.22.07 @ 8:47AM|#
John Roads,
In actuality, opposition to the War on Islamo-Fascism is indeed a
Pro-Fascist position.
And Fascism is the polar opposite of libertarianism.
How anyone can be in favor of forcing women to wear burqas, stoning
prostitutes in town squares, having gay men have their genitals
whacked off and stuffed in their mouths, assasinations of free
speech advocates like Theo van Gogh, and widowed women being shot
at soccer stadiums in front of thousands of cheering fans for the
crime of walking outside of their homes alone, and still call
oneself a "libertarian" is beyond me.
If you support surrender to Islamo-Fascism, you defacto support
everything above. And you are not in any stretch of the imagination
a "libertarian."
Eric Dondero|11.22.07 @ 8:49AM|#
As for Rudy being the same as Obama, note at ontheissues.org
Rudy scores 60/60.
Obama and Hillary score 30/60.
Edwards is at 50/30.
That's quite a gap there.
Eric Dondero|11.22.07 @ 8:56AM|#
John Roads, you are clearly ignorant of libertarian movement
history. Must be a Newbie, 'eh? Just kinda like joined our
libertarian movement in grad school a couple years ago? A leftist
friend of yours told ya about this "really cool site dude" called
AntiWar.com.
One day as you were trolling at Raimondo's site you clicked onto
the link for LewRockwell.com.
And Vallah! That's the extent of your knowledge of the libertarian
movement.
Hey Newbie Asshole!!! Listen up you fuck. The libertarian movement
WAS FOUNDED BY PRO-DEFENSE LIBERTARIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Barry Goldwater is the official titular head of the Modern
Libertarian Movement. And Barry was STRIDENTLY Pro-War.
But in practicality it was Dana Rohrabacher who founded the
libertarian political movement. Dana was Chair of the libertarian
wing of YAF in the late 1960s which the Libertarian Party was
founded from.
And the LP's first Presidential candidate was none other than...
Pro-George Bush, Pro-War on Islamo-Fascism, Dr. John Hospers of
southern California.
Throughout the 1970s and 1980s, there was a thriving and quite
active LIBERTARIAN DEFENSE CAUCUS within the LP, that carried the
banner of Pro-Defense Libertarianism. And surprise, surprise... One
of their most prominent members was none other than Reason
Magazine's Bob Poole!!
In 2003, the Libertarian Party conducted a poll of their membership
and found out that fully "40%" of LP members were in favor of the
War in Iraq. We're not talking the War in Afghanistan. Nope. THEY
WERE IN FAVOR OF THE WAR IN IRAQ!!!
So, don't you fucking preach to me you Newbie asshole about how
"libertarianism is incompatible with being in favor of the
War..."
It's your silly-ass position that doesn't belong in our libertarian
movement.
So, kindly go back to that little leftwing America-hating college
of yours at Berkely, or UC Davis, or Ann Arbor, or up in
Massachusetts, and leave us real libertarians alone.
Eric Dondero|11.22.07 @ 9:01AM|#
Has anyone made a Pussy-Boy Troll list of individuals on the
Reason H&R Blog who are too afraid to use their real names, and
hide behind ridiculous on-line nicknames? Here's my list of
Pussy-Boy Trolls:
1. x,y
2. Asharak
3. ihh
4. Fluffy
I gotta hand it to Isaac, John Rhodes, and some of the others here.
At least they use their real names.
|11.22.07 @ 11:16AM|#
C'mon with it, pussy boy non-Veteran.
You have no idea what my or anyone else's history is. So you need
to stop throwing the stupid-ass accusations around.
And as for calling you on the phone, why should I waste the cost of
a call on a twerp like you. I've already told you what I think.
Eric Dondero|11.22.07 @ 2:56PM|#
So Isaac, you did serve in the Military? Which branch? For how long?
|11.22.07 @ 4:30PM|#
Where were you after 9/11, DONDEROOOOOOOOO!!!? Did you knock anyone over in your rush to reenlist? No? Then shut the fuck up with the "I was a storekeeper in the Navy" dickwaving.
Eric Dondero|11.23.07 @ 9:23AM|#
After 9/11? I was serving on Congressman Ron Paul's District
Staff as his Personal Assistant, District Representative, and Local
Governmental Relations Coordinator.
You're right though. Looking back I should have resigned, and
joined the Army Reserves or some other Branch.
Biggest mistake of my life staying on his staff.
|11.23.07 @ 10:10AM|#
Let me throw a monkey wrench in the works, E.D. Why is Barry Goldwater Jr supporting Ron Paul?
Eric Dondero|11.23.07 @ 2:30PM|#
I believe its Barry Goldwater II, not "Jr."
Anyway, this is a big coup for Paul. Probably his best endorsement
yet. In fact, it is his best endorsement.
It's unclear as to whether or not Cong. Walter Jones has actually
endorsed Paul. If yes, Jones would be the only Congressman to do
so.
And Paul has a number of State Legislators supporting him in states
like New Hampshire, Wyoming and Montana.
But his lack of endorsements from fellow Congressmen speaks
volumes.
Also, to my knowledge, not a single prominent Texas elected
official has endorsed Ron Paul.
Certainly no fellow Texas Congressmen. And no Texas State
Legislators as far as I know.
Odd, cause here in Texas we have some awfully maverick uncaring
about public opinion type Republican politicians. You would have
thought that at least one of them would have stepped up to the
plate for Paul.
But on Goldwater, and I'm going on record here, Ron Paul scored a
major coup getting his endorsement. (And you can quote me on
that.)
Eric Dondero|11.24.07 @ 9:11AM|#
Just Breaking...
Giuliani has picked up the endorsement of Manchester NH Mayor Frank
Guinta, known for being a huge property tax reduction advocate, and
school choice backer.
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