Reason Magazine
- reason.com
- reason.tv
- reason.org
- Donate
- Site Search:
Reason on Facebook
Reason on Twitter
Reason on YouTube
Reason RSSGet Reason E-mail Updates!
Manage your Reason e-mail list subscriptionsadvertisements
Octogenarian Gamblers: The New Menace!
Police in Tennessee broke up a local poker came they say was run by 82-year-old World Series of Poker vet Phil McKinney. McKinney and 15 others were arrested (one on a charge of possessing moonshine). Scary photo of police-seized contraband poker chips here.
Meanwhile, 87-year-old WWII vet Bill Meserve won't get to play $5 cribbage at the VFW anymore. Police in Gariner, Maine have shut the games down.
The American Legion post in Gardiner was told it could purchase a special license for just $7.50 a year, provided it charged no more than $1 per person and players did not gamble.
"But they want to do it their way," [Police Sgt. William] Gomane said.
Those bastard war veterans, arrogantly assuming that the liberty they risked their lives fighting for includes the right to participate in $5 cribbage games.
|11.8.07 @ 11:38AM|#
"It's truly the public saying, 'enough is enough.' Whether it's drug activity or gambling or domestic abuse, it takes people saying, 'We're going to have a safe community in Kingsport.'"
Quoted for puke factor.
|11.8.07 @ 11:41AM|#
$5 cribbage? They are so lucky I'm not there. I would mop the floor with those geezers.
Hungry Hungry|11.8.07 @ 11:49AM|#
I remember when young war widows were the sympathetic group of
choice. I guess now its old war veterans.
He should be allowed his cribbage, but fighting for liberty doesn't
give him any special say.
Episiarch|11.8.07 @ 11:49AM|#
Hey, I belonged to the Rod & Gun Club there. Or was it West Gardiner? Can't remember, but man those are quiet towns. The police literally have nothing else to do, so they might as well roust some old men. Maybe they get to taser them if they get uppity, too. Win all around for the boys in blue!
|11.8.07 @ 11:50AM|#
So Mr. Balko's point is what, exactly? That one's age or veteran status should provide an exemption from the law?
|11.8.07 @ 11:54AM|#
Yes Dan that's exactly what he was saying. Pretty much the only point being made. And a damned fine one too. No awake human being could possibly disagree.
Radley Balko|11.8.07 @ 11:55AM|#
No. Dan, are you really that obtuse?
My point is that our government sends men to fight to their deaths
in the name of "preserving liberty," then sends cops out to bust
old men for playing $5 cribbage games.
|11.8.07 @ 11:59AM|#
No problem, once Donderoooooo gets his libertarian hero elected
things like this won't happen anymore.
And all the medical mj patients will be safe from harassment
too.
What a beautiful land it will be.
|11.8.07 @ 12:00PM|#
Kingsport police have seized $19,900 in cash and arrested 16
people
That's $1243.75 each. With that kind of cash, they must be either
drug dealers or Al Quida supporters! Lock the evil bastards
up!
I literally shook my in disgust head when I read about the American
Legion cribbage bust. I'm too icredulized (that should be a word)
to comment on it.
FWIW, cribbage is a damned fine gentlemen's game. You don't offer
the cut, because cribbage players, i.e. ladies and gentlemen, don't
cheat.
|11.8.07 @ 12:00PM|#
I'm one of those old men. I voted Republican from Goldwater to Bush. These Theocon attacks on my right to spend my money as I please have caused me to leave the RP.
|11.8.07 @ 12:06PM|#
Ok, I've calmed down a bit about the American Legion bust.
That Greatest Generation shit don't hold no water here in Gariner,
dammit!
Now I'm pissed again!
|11.8.07 @ 12:11PM|#
Here in Ohio we had to quit playing dollar tong after a round of golf.I was told by the course owner Ohio BAC could charge us with a 4th degree felony and close him down.
Alan|11.8.07 @ 12:11PM|#
"It's truly the public saying, 'enough is enough.' Whether
it's drug activity or gambling or domestic abuse, it takes people
saying, 'We're going to have a safe community in
Kingsport.'"
There is no crime so small to deny a cop the feeling of being a
big, big man when he takes it on.
Rhywun|11.8.07 @ 12:25PM|#
Wait a second. I play quarter-ante poker all the time with friends. Is that now "illegal"? And if so, what in the name of all that is holy is wrong with this country?!
|11.8.07 @ 12:27PM|#
The vets were probably arrested because they refused to give the cops a cut of the action--look at those huge dollar figures.
violent_k|11.8.07 @ 12:28PM|#
Is gambling the same as betting?
If I'm sitting in a bar and the guy next to me says Lofton is gonna
strike out and I bet him the next round of drinks he won't, have I
committed a crime?
Nephilium|11.8.07 @ 12:29PM|#
Something like this happened on the East side of Cleveland a
couple of years ago. My dad is in the VFW, and they were doing a
poker night. They contracted someone else to do it, and they got
raided. Chips and cash were confiscated and they had to go defend
their liquor license.
Remember, gambling is wrong. But remember to play the Mega Millions
lottery, that's FOR THE CHILDREN!
Nephilium
|11.8.07 @ 12:33PM|#
FYI, I'm still pissed about this. On so many levels I'm having a
hard time thinking straight. Guns, revolution, blaze of glory, kill
the police, kind of stuff that I know is unhealthy and I won't act
upon. But still...
I'm really pissed!
|11.8.07 @ 12:34PM|#
If I'm sitting in a bar and the guy next to me says Lofton
is gonna strike out and I bet him the next round of drinks he
won't, have I committed a crime?
Yes.
|11.8.07 @ 12:42PM|#
violent_k - I wouldn't say you've committed a crime, but if you're giving even money on a bet with a 70% chance that you'll lose, maybe the other guy has committed a robbery.
|11.8.07 @ 12:54PM|#
We libertarians should be applauding this kind of police state action. They should do it more and more until every citizen gets riled up about being hassled for some victimless "crime." Unfortunately, these idiotic episodes are few and far between - very few people notice them. Or so one would assume, given the relative paucity of libertarians in our society.
alan|11.8.07 @ 1:11PM|#
We libertarians should be applauding this kind of police
state action. They should do it more and more until every citizen
gets riled up about being hassled for some victimless
"crime."
A similar thought occurred to me earlier this week when I read some
pundit (probably in a Time magazine I found in an office lounge)
lamenting the growing wealth in China and the new middle class. In
this article he droned about how the new wealth was making the
Chinese politically apathetic and also complaining about the lack
of 'democracy' in China, but it was clear from the context of his
point of view, the word 'democracy' was just a euphemism for
socialism.
I was thinking to myself, 'don't you think they have had a bit much
of that already?' followed by, 'maybe this country does need a full
scale Marxist revolution for one very unfortunate generation to
finally get that shit out of our system for good, and then writers
like this pitching for socialized medicine, nationalized
industries, and top to bottom regulatory control will only find a
place to gab on the unemployment line.'
R C Dean|11.8.07 @ 1:28PM|#
If I'm sitting in a bar and the guy next to me says Lofton
is gonna strike out and I bet him the next round of drinks he
won't, have I committed a crime?
I think I can simplify this for you, here in the Land of the Free
circa 2007:
If X, have I committed a crime?
For all values of X, the answer is yes.
|11.8.07 @ 2:18PM|#
"It's truly the public saying, 'enough is enough.' Whether
it's drug activity or gambling or domestic abuse, it takes people
saying, 'We're going to have a safe community in
Kingsport.'"
No, that's just you saying: "Douchey-douche douche douche-douche. I
am a douche. Douchey, douchey douche."
|11.8.07 @ 2:27PM|#
No. Dan, are you really that obtuse?
My point is that our government sends men to fight to their deaths
in the name of "preserving liberty," then sends cops out to bust
old men for playing $5 cribbage games.
Uh...okay. I'm really not sure the local police in Gariner, Maine
send anybody to fight overseas but I could be wrong.
But I will add that part of what our veterans fought for is the
right of the people to democratically decide on their own laws.
That part seems to be forgotten/ignored quite often around
here.
|11.8.07 @ 2:59PM|#
Captain Obtuse Wrote:
But I will add that part of what our veterans fought for is the right of the people to democratically decide on their own laws. That part seems to be forgotten/ignored quite often around here.
Well, first off, it isn't illegal to hold a "game of chance" in
Maine. Indeed, the VFW game was closed down for violating an
undemocratically appointed rule saying they had to have a gambling
license because...wait for it...they serve food. Quite the
difference.
ed|11.8.07 @ 3:05PM|#
these idiotic episodes are few and far between
Bingo!
We have a winner. Put down your daubers.
Franklin Harris|11.8.07 @ 3:44PM|#
Scary photo of police-seized contraband poker chips here.
Along with the names and addresses of people charged with
misdemeanor gambling offenses. Scumbags.
Franklin Harris|11.8.07 @ 3:46PM|#
"Scumbags" being the reporter and editors who published the names, not the men arrested.
|11.8.07 @ 4:17PM|#
"...the new wealth was making the Chinese politically
apathetic and also complaining about the lack of 'democracy' in
China,..."
I'm convinced that most people are so easily bought, this just
reinforces it. Americans are no different and IMO this is why our
republic is poised at the precipice of an out and out police state.
Nothing to see here folks, we'll be there soon.
Robert|11.8.07 @ 8:27PM|#
The SI piece didn't mention hooch, but said he was charged with having III-N pills.
|11.8.07 @ 10:00PM|#
But I will add that part of what our veterans fought for is
the right of the people to democratically decide on their own
laws.
Oh is that right? So those WWII vets were fighting for the right of
southerners to democratically enact laws that forced blacks to use
separate washrooms? Or the ones that forced blacks to live in a
different part of town? Or was it the democratically enacted laws
that forbid blacks to marry whites? Perhaps you meant the
democratically enacted laws that forced blacks to ride in the back
of the bus, eat at separate tables, or drink from separate drinking
fountains - the list goes on, ad nauseam.
So, I ask you, is that what you think the soldiers in WWII were
fighting for? Were the black soldiers fighting for the rights of
people to democratically decide laws to make them second (if that)
class citizens? Take your repugnant democratic fetishism somewhere
else. If that's all it takes in your underused mind to make
something a legitimate function of government then your views are
simply repugnant .
Being free does not mean one group gets to force everybody else to
do what it wants. It's idiots like you who have destroyed the
concept of freedom and turned government into an all encompassing
behemoth whose power can be wielded by any group which manages to
get a mere plurality of the vote. It's just like a primitive battle
for the ability to force anyone not in your "tribe" into
submission, except that now instead of brute strength and beating
them over the head with a club, you use your strength of numbers to
beat them over the head with a statute. How civilized. Dan, if
that's your view of how society should be run, you're really no
better than any ignorant thug who wants to subjugate others to your
wishes - all of life is just a war between groups of people for
power. Whether it's physical or electoral, the underlying sentiment
is the same. Clearly the more evolved view, one that has taken (an
all to small percentage of) mankind tens-of-thousands of years to
arrive at, is the ability to put your selfish desires for control
aside and let people live their lives as they see fit.
One can only hope that if there's any justice in this world you'll
someday find yourself on the business end of a "democratically
decided law" which teaches you the hard way about the concept of
freedom since I fear that people without any demonstrated ability
for abstract reasoning or thought, who only recognize force, will
only learn like dogs.
|11.9.07 @ 9:43AM|#
So Brian, how do you propose we decide what the laws should be if not democratically?
Site comments/questions:
Media Inquiries and Reprint Permissions:
(310) 367-6109
Editorial & Production Offices:
3415 S. Sepulveda Blvd.
Suite 400
Los Angeles, CA 90034
(310) 391-2245