New at Reason

October 10, 2007

Over at The American, Michael Moynihan looks at Sweden's baby steps toward free-market reform.

Comments

|10.10.07 @ 3:50PM|#

Who knew Absolut was government owned and operated? Not I.

That's what I like about Reason--I actually learn from it. What other political mags can say as much?

|10.10.07 @ 4:02PM|#

Another American school shooting today - this time in Cleveland. I wonder if this sort of thing happens in Sweeden?

|10.10.07 @ 4:04PM|#

Right on cue, a prick shows up to tell us how much better Scandinavia is than 'merca.

VM|10.10.07 @ 4:04PM|#

DanT:

When I lived in Copenhagen there were several reports of knife trouble in Malmö... no shootings, IIRC, but there was school violence that was unacceptable at any level.

There have also been some problems with violence and gangs in the Danish town of Odensee (Hans Chr. Andersen's town). No shootings, again, but violence that's far, far, far beyond any acceptable level.

and URKOBOLD has blogged that news story already!

|10.10.07 @ 4:10PM|#

Right on cue, a prick shows up to tell us how much better Scandinavia is than 'merca.

I don't know if it is or not but it's hard to imagine that too many Swedes are looking at the US as a model of the kind of society they want to have. That might explain their slow "progress" towards a free market economy.

|10.10.07 @ 4:11PM|#

Every now and then when economic regulation is debated here on H&R someone will mention that Sweden is far to the left on this issue than we are and still has a good quality of life. Then someone always pops up and says "Well Freedom House (or someone) says Sweden has better economic freedom than we do" or some such nonsense. So which is it? Is it economically free and therefore not in need of "free market" reform, or is it regulated and living proof that economic regulation does not mean Soviet level living conditions?

|10.10.07 @ 4:14PM|#

What a coincidence, Dan! First thing I thought of when I heard there was a school shooting in Cleveland was "This is very relevant to economic policy in Scandinavia" too!

Edward|10.10.07 @ 4:14PM|#

Maybe when Sweden insitutes market reforms, it can have a successful internation retail operation like Ikea. Wait, Ikea is Swedish!

|10.10.07 @ 4:17PM|#

Maybe they don't kill each other like we do in the USA, but they sure know how to off themselves in Scandinavia.

|10.10.07 @ 4:17PM|#

Maybe when Sweden insitutes market reforms, it can have a successful internation retail operation like Ikea. Wait, Ikea is Swedish!

Therefore, the free-market is a failed idea and we should all become socialists!

Edward, do you actually have a functioning brain, or did you just pick up various scraps of meat on the ground and mash them into that cavity you call a skull?

|10.10.07 @ 4:22PM|#

Actually, given the awesome density of death metal bands in Sweden, maybe those socialist weasels are onto something.

carrick|10.10.07 @ 4:25PM|#

So Dan pulls the lever on the slot machine and two random thoughts line up. He then assumes one is proof of the other.

|10.10.07 @ 4:29PM|#

This thread needs more Opeth. Click here, you retarded butt-monkeys.

|10.10.07 @ 4:34PM|#

I would hope that the Cold Europe democratic socialisms would appreciate the degree to which they rely on us foolish Americans and our dangerous economy to both pay for their free goodies and for the existence of said goodies in the first place.

|10.10.07 @ 4:46PM|#

Edward, do you actually have a functioning brain, or did you just pick up various scraps of meat on the ground and mash them into that cavity you call a skull?
Thanks for making me laugh so loud that everyone in the office is looking at me funny.

VM|10.10.07 @ 4:52PM|#

"JasonC | October 10, 2007, 4:46pm | #
Edward, do you actually have a functioning brain, or did you just pick up various scraps of meat on the ground and mash them into that cavity you call a skull?
Thanks for making me laugh so loud that everyone in the office is looking at me funnyier."

fixed it fer ya.
[ducks]

shecky|10.10.07 @ 4:55PM|#

I would hope that the Cold Europe democratic socialisms would appreciate the degree to which they rely on us foolish Americans and our dangerous economy to both pay for their free goodies and for the existence of said goodies in the first place.

The way Americans rely on foolish Chinese and their dangerous economy for the existence of said goodies?

America is the new China.

|10.10.07 @ 4:56PM|#

VM, as a fellow Chicagoan (and if your username is to be believed, a fellow Viking), your words hurt me most of all.

Viking Älg|10.10.07 @ 4:57PM|#

Norway probably wonders exactly that - why the US pays for them.

|10.10.07 @ 5:00PM|#

Of course you realize, Edward, that the founder of Ikea was a prominent nazi and German sympathizer during WWII.

Absolutely nothing to do with the post, just felt like going with the spirit of posting irrelevant crap like you do.

|10.10.07 @ 5:07PM|#

From wikipedia:

The central purpose of IKEA's intricate corporate structure appears to be tax avoidance. By funneling its profits through a nonprofit foundation and through a string of shell corporations in various tax havens, IKEA drastically reduces the tax burden it would face with a more straightforward corporate organization.

Heh, heh. I like these guys.

|10.10.07 @ 5:13PM|#

Since we're all posting irrelevant Scandanavian crap, hey Warty - here's some old school Danish black metal for ya.

VM|10.10.07 @ 5:20PM|#

Wow - didn't know that band. Here's one backatcha by Sort Sol (black sun), Let your fingers do the walking and daughter of sad...

|10.10.07 @ 5:30PM|#

VM - The Sort Sol lead singer looks like Ray Davies.

Yeah, unless you were into metal in the early 80's you prolly wouldn't have heard of Merciful Fate. That said, the lead singer, King Diamond, had a song in Clerks II. (The metal song Jay & Silent Bob sing to horrify the dweeb guy).

VM|10.10.07 @ 5:31PM|#

OMG! hilarious!

thanks for the heads up!

|10.10.07 @ 5:41PM|#

Dan T., hate to break it to you but Europe has their "Watts" and their "Detroits" just like America does. The only difference in Europe its the suburbs that are hell.

|10.10.07 @ 5:43PM|#

Glad I could help, JasonC.

I am also a Chicagoan, as well as of Swedish (and Dutch) descent.

|10.10.07 @ 6:00PM|#

Every now and then when economic regulation is debated here on H&R someone will mention that Sweden is far to the left on this issue than we are and still has a good quality of life. Then someone always pops up and says "Well Freedom House (or someone) says Sweden has better economic freedom than we do" or some such nonsense. So which is it?

MNG, (if you're still reading this thread), you might be thinking of the Heritage Foundation, who produce an economic freedom ranking. Sweden is surprisingly high on the list, at 21.

I think one big unacknowledged reason for Sweden's (and Switzerland's) prosperity is that they haven't fought in any wars for a long, long time. Nothing wastes wealth like wars.

|10.10.07 @ 6:02PM|#

I think one big unacknowledged reason for Sweden's (and Switzerland's) prosperity is that they haven't fought in any wars for a long, long time. Nothing wastes wealth like wars.

And I love Switzerland and Sweden for proving that yes, you can be a prosperous nation without marching your army all over the globe to control resources. You can make a lot of money just being neutral and trading.

|10.10.07 @ 6:12PM|#

"And I love Switzerland and Sweden for proving that yes, you can be a prosperous nation without marching your army all over the globe to control resources. You can make a lot of money just being neutral and trading."

I'm sympathetic, but these two cases prove no such thing. at a certain scale, the sheer size of the economy moves mountains and causes ripples that potentially make other people hate you.

|10.10.07 @ 6:16PM|#

I'm sympathetic, but these two cases prove no such thing. at a certain scale, the sheer size of the economy moves mountains and causes ripples that potentially make other people hate you.

What about Japan? Its the second or third largest economy in the world. For years their leaders told their people, we have to have a colonial Empire in East Asia so we can secure resources for our industries.

They don't have an Empire anymore, but they are wealthier now than they ever were before. They have managed to keep a modern economy going without attempting to control other nations militarily.

|10.10.07 @ 6:24PM|#

Thanks for the thought, Dan T. You are a worthy contributer of an opposing point of view that broadens our horizons.

|10.10.07 @ 6:26PM|#

Does global stability really require the United States to flit here and there with its military? That's a key question that I'd like an answer to. Maybe it is true. Then again, maybe it isn't. If it isn't, I'd like to pull back and just be rich and stuff. We can maintain a powerful military, too, just to keep everyone comfy and secure.

|10.10.07 @ 6:52PM|#

Baked-thanks, It probably is the Heritage rankings that are bandied about here. If they are any realistic indicator as to what a libertarian would find important in "economic freedom" then I guess massive taxation and very generous welfare systems are part of the libertarian vision? And if not, then you still have what must to some posters here seem a very interesting "anomaly", a nation with lots of "socialism" that is doing better than most other nations. Either way hardcore libs have some 'splaining to do.

|10.10.07 @ 7:18PM|#

Good points MNG,

I would have liked the article to detail more in depth why Sweden needs those free market reforms.

I am hanging out with a bunch of Swedes that claim that they have the best schools and the best military in the world and that they are totally free.

I would like to hear some counter arguments to that.

I mean a part of it is probably that their neighbor Russia is less daring than they would be without OUR military. So they are paying taxes to go to the doctor and we are paying to keep them safe from russia.

Paul|10.10.07 @ 7:27PM|#

is "the extensive privatization of the country's public sector."

That would be... the entire country of Sweden.

Paul|10.10.07 @ 7:34PM|#

The way Americans rely on foolish Chinese and their dangerous economy for the existence of said goodies?

America is the new China.

Shecky:

We pay the Chinese for those goods. Oh, major hospital receives another wave of Canadian patients... but that's another story...

Paul|10.10.07 @ 7:35PM|#

and the best military in the world and that they are totally free.

I always hear this from Swedes. I sure would like to put this to the test with some magical system where no one would actually get killed.

|10.10.07 @ 7:39PM|#

kwais - point out to them that they have the Finns protecting them from Russia. Ha ha. Actually, don't do that unless you know them well, or can outrun them.

MNG, I've drunk deep from the Libertarian kool-aid myself, but I recognize the apparent disparity. I do believe, as previously mentioned, that there is a significant peace dividend.

I tried to link to the Heritage site previously, but failed. Here's their view of Sweden.

The apparent anomaly is partially explained by the fact that Sweden has some very liberal (in the classical sense) laws regarding business freedom (better than the US) and private property, as well as very low corruption.

Their "Freedom from Government" score, which is mainly a measure of the % of GDP taken by the government, is miserable.

|10.10.07 @ 7:50PM|#

Several reasons why Sweden may be topping the Economic Freedom list:
1. The fact that the remnants of the Protestant/Lutheran ethic runs deep, they are hard, fastidious, diligent workers.
2. Low-low-low levels of corruption.
3. Low amounts of buisness red tape
4. Good protection of property rights, ie they may pay taxes but the gub'mint don't steal what they own.

|10.10.07 @ 10:39PM|#

To add to a threat of irrelevant comments marginally related to Sweden:

Absolut Vodka corrupts absolutely, as a government run essential service.

Gahan|10.10.07 @ 10:52PM|#

Has anyone studied the relationship between pickled herring diets and corruption levels? The Swedes may be onto something here.

|10.11.07 @ 8:14AM|#

Why i there such a low level of corruption given that there is government power?

And does there medical system really work that well? If so then how so given that it is government run?

Same question for the Swiss.

Also thanks Baked Penguin.

|10.11.07 @ 11:30AM|#

kwais, I think the Heritage site can provide some clues to that - apparently, the main involvement of the Swedish gov't is to take taxes. The rest of the regulatory apparatus they have there appears to be about the same (or less!) than ours. A lot of corruption takes place around regulatory procedures.