David Weigel | October 8, 2007
Over at New
York, Kurt
Andersen hoists his keyboard and smashes it over the heads of
the ninnies who predict civilizational doom when the Ahmadinejads
of the world say mean things.
Almost any argument about race, gender, Israel, or the war is now apt to be infected by a spirit of self-righteous grievance and demonization. Passionate disagreement isn’t sufficient; bad faith must be imputed to one’s opponents: skepticism of affirmative action equals racism, antiwar sentiment equals anti-Americanism (or terrorist sympathy), criticism of Israel is by definition anti-Semitic, and so on. More and more people think they’re entitled to the right not just to ignore or disapprove, but to veto and banish. And the craven fear of triggering tantrums leads the responsible authorities—university administrators, politicians, corporate executives—into humiliating, flip-floppy contortions of appeasement.
Maybe, I tell myself hopefully, it’s all a spasmodic reaction to the unfettered discourse that the Web and cable TV and talk radio have unleashed—that because freedom of expression is rather suddenly greater than ever in so many ways, people are trying desperately to reestablish limits on what can and can’t be asserted in their vicinity. And no doubt this sort of panicky, anti-democratic exceptionalism—freedom of speech for us, but not necessarily for you—is fed by the chronic sense of emergency that has prevailed since September 2001, when the White House press secretary warned that “Americans … need to watch what they say.”
Maybe the fever will pass. Or maybe a lot of us are permanently losing our taste for liberty, devoted to “freedom” in the abstract but unprepared to endure all its messy particulars.
Most of Anderson's following words are given over to university speech codes and the unctuous umbridge of Lee Bollinger. That's old news. I'm ever more fascinated by the anti-speech anger on the right, the stuff Jesse Walker has written about. Switch on any of the Fox News gut rumble shows—O'Reilly, Hannity, John Gibson—and there's at least one segment about the "controversial comments" of some pinko or another and how loudly they should be condemned. At 50 decibels? At 100 decibels? Here was the lead question on Friday's Hannity and Colmes, about the Rush Limbaugh "phony soldiers" kerfuffle.
Hillary Clinton accuses a four-star general, slanders him as a liar. Harry Reid, Dick Durbin, John Kerry, John Murtha, are these Democrats in power emboldening America's enemies with their comments and slander against the military?
Surely not even a beefcake crybaby like Sean Hannity thinks this stuff matters, or that it impedes our progress in the glorious conflict.
Walker on Ahmadinejad here.
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"Surely not even a beefcake crybaby like Sean Hannity
thinks..."
No, he definitely doesn't do that.
I too have noticed the rise of right-wing PC.
IT cracks me up when they say things like "The PC orthodoxy says I
can't talk about (nuking Iran, walling up the border, etc) but..."
even though there are shows all over cable tv with blowhards saying
exactly those things.
From what I understand, vitriol has a very, very long history in
American politics. It may be that the level of vitriol has waxed
and waned over time, and that it's waxing now in comparison with
some other time, but that doesn't mean it's something new and
perilous to our Republic.
Perhaps it's wrong to impute bad faith to everybody who disagrees
with me, but I would say that those of us who were right from the
start about the current disaster get tired of seeing people who
were wrong from the start still treated like Serious People. They
might not have impure motives, but they're clearly missing
something in their analysis, and instead of treating them seriously
perhaps we should suggest that they sit down, STFU, and listen and
contemplate until they've figured out where they went wrong.
Giving them a "time out" from discourse may seem unfair, but it's
better than letting them replicate their mistakes in Iran.
Orwell was right about the existence of doublethink, although he was wrong about it requiring an act of will. All it really takes is complete devotion to one's "team."
maybe the fear of open engagement is merely another sign of the death of rhetoric?
Orwell was right about the existence of doublethink,
although he was wrong about it requiring an act of will. All it
really takes is complete devotion to one's "team."
No, it has to be willful.
Prime example: Clinton lying under oath vs. Scooter Libby lying
under oath.
The same people condemning Clinton are supporting Libby, and vice
versa.
I really think you have to make a conscious decision to switch that
quickly about something that public...
I'm ever more fascinated by the anti-speech anger on the
right, the stuff Jesse Walker has written about. Switch on any of
the Fox News gut rumble shows-O'Reilly, Hannity, John Gibson-and
there's at least one segment about the "controversial comments" of
some pinko or another and how loudly they should be
condemned.
Not entirely clear how condemning controversial comments is
anti-speech. Isn't that how its supposed to work? Marketplace of
ideas and all that?
a beefcake crybaby like Sean Hannity
Possibly the stupidest man paid to talk into a microphone.
"Possibly the stupidest man paid to talk into a
microphone."
I'm surprised to see you say that about Hannity, RC. I thought your
views were pretty much in line with his.
So long as its just commentators flapping their gums, i really
am not all that concerned. What has me worried is stuff like
this
"Others on the Democrat side are pushing ahead with other
plans. Rep. Henry Waxman has asked his investigative staff to begin
compiling reports on Limbaugh, and fellow radio hosts Sean Hannity
and Mark Levin based on transcripts from their shows, and to call
in Federal Communications Commission chairman Kevin Martin to
discuss the so-called "Fairness Doctrine."
link from
http://www.spectator.org/util/print.asp?art_id=12128
from instapundit today. When your actual elected representatives
start trying to clamp down on speech, thats when to start getting
very worried.
I would say that those of us who were right from the start
about the current disaster get tired of seeing people who were
wrong from the start still treated like Serious People.
This is the frustration felt by all people who were right about
something, others were wrong, and then the people who were wrong
don't give you credit. Very frustrating, but completely normal.
It's not going to change.
a beefcake crybaby like Sean Hannity
That's pure poetry, Weigel.
Episiarch-
If they weren't getting ready to replicate their mistakes in Iran I
could get over the fact that they're being taken seriously. This
isn't just about pride, it's about making sure a mistake isn't
repeated.
Most of Anderson's following words are given over to
university speech codes and the unctuous umbridge of Lee Bollinger.
That's old news. I'm ever more fascinated by the anti-speech anger
on the right,
Old news??
The conservatives were in power when cable and the web ratcheted
all this stuff up and they let it happen...hell they didn't even
the cut funding to left leaning PBS and NPR..I hate to brake it to
you Weigle but they are not in power now and it is the left who are
moving to ban hate speech (read: ban criticism of democrats)...sure
its old news but now they have the votes to actually outlaw
speech.
Perhaps it's wrong to impute bad faith to everybody who
disagrees with me, but I would say that those of us who were right
from the start about the current disaster get tired of seeing
people who were wrong from the start still treated like Serious
People.
Aren't you the same guy who thinks Bush alone started these wars in
a vacuum to steal oil and kill Arabs?
I think they are still treated like serious people, because the
loudest alternative is a decent into moonbat conspiracy land.
If they weren't getting ready to replicate their mistakes in
Iran I could get over the fact that they're being taken seriously.
This isn't just about pride, it's about making sure a mistake isn't
repeated.
thoreau, I know--but I've encountered this so many times in normal
life, and then again with pundits, that it doesn't surprise me or
even get me angry any more. Most people have short memories and
don't hold people accountable for what they have said in the past.
If people actually did, then tons of politicians, pundits, and even
scientists would be out of a job.
It's frustrating as hell. For instance, look at the Brady Bunch and
their claims that Florida would become a death hole after the
castle doctrine was strengthened. Totally didn't happen, and
totally forgotten. Same with the WMD. Where the fuck are they? Why
aren't more people demanding to know?
Care about it too much and you'll tear your hair out. Not worth
it.
Prime example: Clinton lying under oath vs. Scooter Libby
lying under oath
I'll one up you on the example: Democrats fighting liberation wars
abroad (i.e. Kosovo and Somalia) with Republicans et al screaming
about it every day;
Now fast forward to the Iraq war debate, strike some names and
reverse parties.
It'd be amusing if it wasn't so damn sad.
Ayn_Randian,
I'll go even further: both parties promising a return to moral
values.
They've been promising that shit since Caesar Augustus Octavian
Julii...
Everyday I pray for the apocalypse. It is the only cure for the state in which we find ourselves. Man fell from grace when he discovered propaganda. Luckily I am well stocked in whiskey, and do not watch any of these thin-skinned idiotlogically pretzel twisted blow hards.
I'm surprised to see you say that about Hannity, RC. I
thought your views were pretty much in line with his.
I'm surprised you listen to Hannity so much you could opine on
whether anyone's views are in line with his, Snake.
Based on my limited exposure to him, I would say he is a pure
Republican party mouthpiece. Me, not so much, although I am man
enough to admit that, of the two major parties, the Dems have a
tendency to get my goat a little quicker.
joshua corning | October 8, 2007, 4:42pm | #
Perhaps it's wrong to impute bad faith to everybody who disagrees
with me, but I would say that those of us who were right from the
start about the current disaster get tired of seeing people who
were wrong from the start still treated like Serious People.
Aren't you the same guy who thinks Bush alone started these wars in
a vacuum to steal oil and kill Arabs?
I think they are still treated like serious people, because the
loudest alternative is a decent into moonbat conspiracy
land.
Pure comedy! Hilarious!
oldnumberseven:
From one whiskey lover to another...have you ever read Walker
Percy's Love in the Ruins? You just might like it.
Great Percy quote from his essay 'The Man on the Train' --
"When everything else fails, we may turn to our good friend just
back from Washington or Moscow, who obliges us with his sober
second thoughts - 'I can tell you this much, I am profoundly
disturbed…' - and each of us has what he came for, the old
authentic thrill of the Bomb and the Coming of the Last Days. Like
Ortega's romantic, the heart's desire of the alienated man is to
see vines sprouting through the masonry."
Now fast forward to the Iraq war debate, strike some names
and reverse parties.
Except the left does not recognize it as a liberation war (or even
a failed one). It is a Haliberton blood for oil subsidy or what
ever.
Pure comedy! Hilarious!
Hey Oldnumberseven give us some more anecdotes on how you deal with
world events by drinking yourself to death...those are always a
hoot.
Taktix-I think that if each case of doublethink were volitional,
those folks would, at some point, have to confront their
dishonesty. I really don't see those folks exhibiting even a
flicker of doubt.
The only alternative explanation is that they are too stupid to see
the contradiction. I don't think that's the case.
old grandad | October 8, 2007, 5:26pm | #
Sounds like a good read. I will have to pick it up. Many thanks for
the recommendation.
joshua corning | October 8, 2007, 5:27pm | #
Hey Oldnumberseven give us some more anecdotes on how you deal
with world events by drinking yourself to death...those are always
a hoot.
There are worse ways to die. For example a psychic I know claimed
somebody named joshua corning was going to die of auto-erotic
asphyxiation.
thoreau,
True enough. I wasn't original. Maybe next time I will use some of
my own whiskey fueled wit.
But if you google joshua corning auto-erotic asphyxiation you get this result.
There are worse ways to die. For example a psychic I know
claimed somebody named joshua corning was going to die of
auto-erotic asphyxiation.
I would be scared but you in a drunken stupor trying strangle me to
death is more comic then threatening.
The small mindedness that you think you have the capacity to cover
it up is even more humorous.
Taktix-I think that if each case of doublethink were
volitional, those folks would, at some point, have to confront
their dishonesty. I really don't see those folks exhibiting even a
flicker of doubt.
The only alternative explanation is that they are too stupid to see
the contradiction. I don't think that's the case.
They are both complicit and not complicit at the same time...
"auto" means "self", joshua. He's saying you're going to
strangle yourself fatally during a self-love event.
I know some people say it takes the humor out of a joke to explain
it, but I find having to explain this one to joshua is amusing in
and of itself.
Perhaps it's wrong to impute bad faith to everybody who
disagrees with me, but I would say that those of us who were right
from the start about the current disaster get tired of seeing
people who were wrong from the start still treated like Serious
People. They might not have impure motives, but they're clearly
missing something in their analysis, and instead of treating them
seriously perhaps we should suggest that they sit down, STFU, and
listen and contemplate until they've figured out where they went
wrong.
Thank you Mr. T.
No, David, Hannity really is stupid enough to think that stuff matters, and so are the mouth-breathers who find his gaseous eruptions erudite and pithy. Hannity is a bottom-feeder whose main debate tactic is an appeal to the emotions of his fans to share his disgust regarding a particular issue.
"Not entirely clear how condemning controversial comments is
anti-speech. Isn't that how its supposed to work? Marketplace of
ideas and all that?"
The point isn't that it's anti speech. The point is that
it's usually ad hominem bullshit that mucks up the marketplace of
ideas.
Ayn Rand was so right about Stalinism, I suppose she should be forgiven for being so wrong about corporatism.
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