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Man Has Invented His Doom/First Step Was Touching the Moon
Science reveals grim truth: germs sent out into orbit return--as wacky, koo-koo super germs, packed with extra deadliosity. USA Today chills our blood:
Researchers placed identical strains of salmonella in containers and sent one into space aboard the shuttle, while the second was kept on Earth, under similar temperature conditions to the one in space.
After the shuttle returned, mice were given varying oral doses of the salmonella and then were watched.
After 25 days, 40% of the mice given the Earth-bound salmonella were still alive, compared with just 10% of those dosed with the germs from space. And the researchers found it took about one-third as much of the space germs to kill half the mice, compared with the germs that had been on Earth.
The researchers found 167 genes had changed in the salmonella that went to space.
Link from the invaluable Rational Review.
Bob Dylan warns against space travel (and stagnant pools); this germ news certainly gives further reason to avoid growing food on the Moon and eating it raw.
|9.25.07 @ 1:01PM|#
Okay, have we seen anything supporting that in astronauts? Have
they come back and demonstrated increased incidences of or more
intense infections from disease?
Interesting that the mutation rate is higher. Is that solely
attributable to increased radiation exposure? Hmmm.
|9.25.07 @ 1:07PM|#
VM,
I see you've been doing your Lifeforce research. Similar
movie, different naked woman. And it has Gandhi instead of
Picard.
Episiarch|9.25.07 @ 1:07PM|#
Uh, we already covered this in The Andromeda
Strain.
Wait...that wasn't non-fiction? DAMN YOU MICHAEL CRICHTON
|9.25.07 @ 1:12PM|#
PL,
That wouldn't have happened, becasuse our astroauts go into space
in a sterile environment or something close to it, not into space
with salmonella lying around.
|9.25.07 @ 1:19PM|#
joe,
Astronauts carry a whole host of bacteria and viruses into space in
their innards.
Unless Nomad has sterilized them first. Sterilize!
|9.25.07 @ 1:19PM|#
I seem to recall a story about some cosmonaut who got stuck in
orbit while Mother Russia was falling apart, and by the time he
came down, he had some sort of horrific skin fungus.
Was that a movie or real life? I think David Hasselhoff was
involved somehow, but alas, that doesn't help make the distinction
...
The Wine Commonsewer|9.25.07 @ 1:20PM|#
My mother told me that algae floating on stagnant water in drainage ditches would give me polio. But this, well THIS NEW space bugs is bound to spawn a bunch of 1950's style horror movies.
|9.25.07 @ 1:22PM|#
That wouldn't have happened, becasuse our astroauts go into
space in a sterile environment or something close to it, not into
space with salmonella lying around.
Y'know, like hospitals.
Oddball|9.25.07 @ 1:22PM|#
Always with the negative waves around here. Sure, mutant space bugs will kill a few million, but a select few of us will catch diseases that give us super powers.
|9.25.07 @ 1:23PM|#
It's hardly sterile up there, joe. Not on our spacecraft, and
certainly not on the old Mir station:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/not_in_website/syndication/monitoring/media_reports/1209034.stm
I recall some interviews with US astronauts who'd been on Mir, and
said it smelled a lot like a gym locker. I'm not aware of any fatal
cases of athlete's foot, though...
thoreau|9.25.07 @ 1:24PM|#
I don't know whether space travel will lead to mutant
superpowers or total destruction by mutant germs, but I do know
that it will be best if we let the market decide.
DEMAND KURVE!!!!!!!!!!!
:)
Episiarch|9.25.07 @ 1:25PM|#
YOU HAVE UTTERED THE MOST FOUL NAME IN SF!
When did I say "Piers Anthony" at all?
|9.25.07 @ 1:30PM|#
YOU HAVE UTTERED THE MOST FOUL NAME IN SF!
When did I say "Piers Anthony" at all?
Ahem, L. Ron __________. Name one SF author fouler. I dare you.
|9.25.07 @ 1:31PM|#
It's already begun;
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/20/in-peru-a-crater-and-questions/?hp
Episiarch|9.25.07 @ 1:37PM|#
Well, you would have to consider L. Ron a sci fi writer, which I do not. I consider him to be insane, and not in the good Philip K. Dick way.
|9.25.07 @ 1:38PM|#
Pro Lib,
Astronauts carry a whole host of bacteria and viruses into
space in their innards.
Where they are constantly kept under control by the astronaut's
immune systems, as opposed to being in a culture designed to
promote their unimpeded growth.
J sub D,
Yes, as opposed to hospitals. Where on earth did you get the idea
that hospitals are sterile? Other ways that the Space Shuttle is
unlike a hospital: the absence of sick people, the total population
of about 4.
Umbriel,
True enough, but our own space shuttles, where American astronauts
spend most of their time, are brought down and sterilized more than
a permanent orbitting platform, are going to be quite cleaner.
Episiarch|9.25.07 @ 1:46PM|#
Uh, joe, we've already geek threadjacked this thread for bad SF, so you'd better get on board.
|9.25.07 @ 1:46PM|#
joe,
Then we can avoid a host of space-borne illnesses by not sending
cultures into space? Well, problem solved!
I just hope that the astronauts don't sneeze, exhale, or surrender
their precious bodily fluids during flights, allowing bacteria and
viruses to escape into the cockpit, and resulting in death for many
and super powers for some.
|9.25.07 @ 1:51PM|#
I hope I get something pratical like instant transportation, and none of this "super strenght"/"flying"/"x-ray vision" bullshit that wouldn't be that useful in real life..
|9.25.07 @ 1:57PM|#
You first have to separate out the things that L. Ron actually
wrote and had ghost-written... nah, it's all shit.
As for an SF author that is a throughly bad writer, in the
technical sense, and is praised fairly consistently, I'd have to go
with E. E. "Doc" Smith.
Anyway, my annoyance with THAT FOUL CREATURE has to do with the
public's acceptance of him as "spokesperson" for SF and his work
being the main interface for non-genre readers. That and the whole
"Time Line? Why didn't someone think of writing a novel
about time travel before?" phenomenon. It's like judging all of
American cuisine by having a meal at Hardee's.
|9.25.07 @ 2:03PM|#
Dibs on the "talking to animals" power. Either that or the ability to control electricity...
|9.25.07 @ 2:16PM|#
Super strength and flying have no use? Ah, you lack imagination, Grasshopper. Especially if the other key power--invulnerability--comes with the package.
|9.25.07 @ 2:20PM|#
I have this sneaking suspicion that talking to animals would
kind of suck.
"Eat. Food. Smell food. Mmm butt smell."
Episiarch|9.25.07 @ 2:27PM|#
"Superman, what do we do?"
"Wonder Woman, go brief the President. Batman, go get the rest of
the SuperFriends. Aquaman...you go talk to some
fish."
(all erupt in laughter)
Episiarch|9.25.07 @ 2:30PM|#
SugarFree, I hate to be serious but Crichton is a very interesting writer. He isn't really SciFi, he is more "near SciFi" or "tomorrow fiction". He writes about stuff that is very close or possible, but still speculative. I have never considered him real SciFi like a Bradbury or Matheson or Brin.
VM|9.25.07 @ 2:36PM|#
Bronwyn | September 25, 2007, 2:00pm | #
As a microbiologist, I should weigh in on this, but... meh.
a wise policy!
|9.25.07 @ 2:44PM|#
Whatever you do, do NOT leave an opened jar of mayonnaise to
float around about a space craft.
Unless all the astronauts on board are hot space babes in silver
space-thong bikinis. Then erotic hilariousness ensues!
|9.25.07 @ 2:52PM|#
Episiarch,
I hate you being serious too.
The term you are looking for (coined by Bruce Sterling) is
"slipstream fiction."
I don't think much of Crichton as a writer, because I refuse to
engage him as a "mainstream writer who writes in SF," but rather as
"a poor writer of SF who is inexplicably popular." He's always 15
years behind and praised as being a visionary. It bugs me.
Although, I think if the overculture didn't constantly identify him
as an SF genius, the enbuggenning would eventually fade.
As for popularized SF, have you ever read any Robert J.
Sawyer? For working in the same thought-spaces as Crichton, I
think he does a much better job of it. (His gentle, Canadian
liberalism can be irritating for those who cannot turn off their
politics while reading fiction. Not that I'm suggesting that about
you.) I'd start with his Neanderthal
Parallax trilogy.
|9.25.07 @ 2:59PM|#
It took 25 days to kill the mice? That's not a very powerful 'super-bug.' I once put four mice in a cage with a large Rat Snake. After 25 minutes, all the mice were dead. I guess I had a super snake! Who knew?
Episiarch|9.25.07 @ 2:59PM|#
joe, if you'd get on board (the spaceship) there would be air and then you could hear just fine.
Episiarch|9.25.07 @ 3:05PM|#
I think your hate of TEH CRICHTON is misplaced. He does some
pretty entertaining work with some research thrown in.
As an insatiable reader as a kid I read tons of SciFi and I wasn't
overly discriminating, because that would have seriously reduced my
available reading material (I used to read 3-4 books at a time so
that if my parents took 1 or more away I could switch to
another).
As I have gotten older, I have become more particular and therefore
have been using my very limited reading time to cover authors I
know I love like Richard Matheson, Heinlein, Brin, etc. Thanks for
the recommendation.
I wish I could return to those glory days of devouring tons of
SciFi but it just ain't gonna happen.
|9.25.07 @ 3:07PM|#
VM,
What are the implications here on the
Lunar Sex Prize? Will our geeky astronaut hordes be infected by
some sort of super space STD? Is there, after all, a flaw in our
plan?
|9.25.07 @ 3:21PM|#
Obviously, we must go into space and mutate ourselves... to keep
up with the germs...
Geeks don't have sex-- therfore, no STDs
|9.25.07 @ 3:25PM|#
Captain Singapore,
Yes, that's the whole point of the Lunar Sex Prize. Offer geeks
with rocket science capabilities the opportunity to have relations
with Salma Hayek (or functional equivalent) if they can get to the
Moon and back without government assistance. Since we'll be
providing them with an otherwise improbable opportunity, STDs from
space are a real risk.
|9.25.07 @ 3:29PM|#
Episiarch,
My mother didn't take books away, but was a source of constant
interruption. Reading fast and the ability to block out all
external stimuli while reading were valuable skills I never lost.
The Wife and I are DINK librarians, so the weekends where the
weather rules out disc golf are wall-to-wall reading. We have so
many books that no one sane would ever help us move. (Through
vicious weeding, I keep my SF down to less than 1000.)
|9.25.07 @ 3:36PM|#
My home library is now in the thousands, much to the chagrin of my lovely and talented wife.
|9.25.07 @ 3:36PM|#
Little help here.
Did Episiarch miss my sci-fi reference, or did I miss his?
I suspect the latter.
|9.25.07 @ 3:40PM|#
Aren't salmonella tiny salmon? I like 'em smoked to that perfect, rich, orangy-pink color.
Episiarch|9.25.07 @ 3:44PM|#
Did Episiarch miss my sci-fi reference, or did I miss
his?
Alien. I was just continuing the "all your threads are
belong to us" theme.
|9.25.07 @ 4:11PM|#
Aren't salmonella tiny salmon?
No, they're female salmon, Einstein. Get a load of this guy.
Jane Fonda was teh HOT in that movie.
|9.25.07 @ 4:19PM|#
Aliens had even more screaming, but that was mostly on the surface of a planet. Still, it's clear that people hear other people scream all of the time in space. Whether getting torn to pieces on a ship with someone else or hearing the screams over radio, hearing people scream in space is commonplace. If Hollywood is a good guide, anyway.
rds|9.25.07 @ 4:25PM|#
Excuse me, but why wasn't there a control group batch here on Earth exposed to the same amount of radiation, just to separate the variables?
|9.25.07 @ 4:29PM|#
Actually, if you were out in the space and exposed to hard
vacuum, then no one could hear you scream.
Although, screaming would be a good idea (exhaling keeps your lungs
from bursting.)
THIS IS THE VIKING MOOSE|9.25.07 @ 4:37PM|#
ProGLib:
no consequences whatsoever. Pocket protectors also double as
unbreakable space condoms!
joe - awesome Jane Fonda comment. LOL!!!
|9.25.07 @ 4:38PM|#
So the slogan for the movie should've been: "In space, no one
can hear you scream. Unless you're in a ship with other people or
your spacesuit has a radio. Or unless you're just totally
alone."
I'm trying to remember one person screaming in a hard vacuum in
Alien. I think they all screamed while on board their
ship.
|9.25.07 @ 4:43PM|#
"And the researchers found it took about one-third as much of
the space germs to kill half the mice, compared with the germs that
had been on Earth."
And how's the delivery system coming? Have they tried it on any
Iraqi villages yet? Maybe they could put sprinkle candy bars around
in the street; snipers could dart the "subjects" as they pick up
the candy bars.
Minion of URKOBOLD|9.25.07 @ 4:45PM|#
IN SPACE, IF YOU SCREAM, PEOPLE WILL FUCKING IGNORE YOU OR TELL YOU TO SHUT THE HELL UP.
|9.25.07 @ 4:47PM|#
Drat! Either "put" or "sprinkle" should have been deleted prior
to sumit comment-ing.
The Editor
|9.25.07 @ 4:55PM|#
And if we're talking vacuum, well, why limit it to screaming? You can't hear anyone talk, sing, or hum, either.
|9.25.07 @ 5:13PM|#
I'm trying to remember one person screaming in a hard vacuum
in Alien. I think they all screamed while on board their
ship.
IIRC, doesn't the Alien scream at the end while getting blasted by
the engines?
(Attn Ridley Scott, on the audio commentary when you were going on
about how cool the carefully lit, falling water was awesome as a
rocket engine effect, I was thinking to myself, "gayest effect
evar").
|9.25.07 @ 5:25PM|#
de stijl,
Don't remember. Could we hear it scream while in space? That's even
worse if we can hear the alien scream in a movie about not hearing
screams in space.
hale|9.25.07 @ 5:39PM|#
L. Ron Hubbard's not really an SF writer anyway; judging by his Mission: Earth books, he's really a satirist more in the mould of Terry Pratchett or Douglas Adams, just one with a weirdo agenda, high self-regard and no ability to edit.
|9.25.07 @ 9:52PM|#
I have this sneaking suspicion that talking to animals would
kind of suck.
"Eat. Food. Smell food. Mmm butt smell."
You'd also hear this a lot:
"Strangers! Must protect borders!"
Shawn Levasseur|9.27.07 @ 4:54PM|#
Coming soon from Marvel Comics:
What If... The Fantastic Four were bacteria.
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