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Could It Be that All Men Are a Bit Autistic?
The Times (London) is reporting a new study by Cambridge University researchers that implicates exposure to high levels of testosterone in the womb to psychological characteristics associated with autism. The study did not look at autistic children but noted that characteristics such as preferring to play alone and better pattern recognition correlate with in utero testosterone levels. The Times reports:
The theory that autism is caused by an extreme version of the “male brain” has won strong support from new research showing that male hormones in the womb are linked to social and emotional skills in childhood...
Professor Baron-Cohen cautioned that the results do not prove that the link between male hormones and autistic traits is causal – both could be the result of something else – and that his team has not yet examined autistic children, only autistic traits in the normal position.
Even so, he said the work adds strong biological evidence to his extreme male brain theory. “The extreme male brain hypothesis was developed at a psychological level, based on observed sex differences,” he said. “Simply put, girls tend to show better empathy and boys tend to have a stronger interest in systems. Children with autism seem to have an exaggerated version of typical male preferences. They have a strong interest in systems and have difficulty empathising.
“We are now moving from a psychological level down to a biological level, finding that elevated levels of testosterone may contribute to the number of autistic traits that you have. It is an exciting development.
“What we knew before was that foetal testosterone affected brain development, but we only knew that from animal research. This study has looked at that relationship in humans. We knew before that it correlated with social development at early points in childhood, but we had not looked at early autistic traits.”
Whole Times article here.
Some of my reporting debunking the alleged vaccine/autism connection here. So for Pete's sake, go get your kids vaccinated already.
Edward|9.12.07 @ 10:30AM|#
I'm waiting for a study that links testosterone levels to political positions. Maybe higher testosterone levels produce a visceral revulsion at any attempt to redistribute wealth. If Ayn Rand were alive today, would she be a candidate for a sex change operation? Is the nanny state simply a function of low fetal testosterone?
|9.12.07 @ 10:43AM|#
While I don't doubt that Autism is real, is anyone else creeped out by the apparent medicalization of "prefers to play alone"? If I ever have a kid whose teacher tells me Johnny doesn't play well with others, I suspect my response will be, "Well, thank dog!"
|9.12.07 @ 10:45AM|#
I scored 31 on that test, but I can guarantee I'm in no danger of winning any math contests.
|9.12.07 @ 10:46AM|#
Research also seems to find a connection between lowered prenatal testosterone exposure and homosexuality in males. Fetal hormone exposure effects is interesting stuff. It is pretty obvious by now that personality traits are caused by nature AND nurture.
tom_sizemore|9.12.07 @ 10:48AM|#
It seems to me that all they've proven is that testosterone
masculinizes the fetus. Is that news?
This does pose a problem for the gender feminist doctrine that
there are no mental gender differences. But that doctrine had
plenty of problems already.
and then...|9.12.07 @ 10:56AM|#
from this month's Mothering magazine:
"Parents who attribute their children's autism spectrum disorders
to vaccine damage now have some preliminary research findings to
bolster such claims. A recently released survey indicates a strong
correlation between childhood vaccinations and rates of
neurological disorders, such as Attention Deficit Hyperactivity
Disorder (ADHD) and autism. The California-Oregon Unvaccinated
Survey, commissioned by Generation Rescue, a nonprofit advocacy
group for children with neurological disorders, compared vaccinated
and unvaccinated children in nine counties in Oregon and
California. Among more than 9,000 boys age 4 to 17, the survey
found that those vaccinated had a 155 percent greater chance of
having a neurological disorder than their unvaccinated peers.
Vaccinated boys were 224 percent more likely to have ADHD, and 61
percent more likely to have autism.
The results were even more pronounced for older (11 to 17)
vaccinated boys, who were 158 percent more likely to have a
neurological disorder, 317 percent more likely to have ADHD, and
112 percent more likely to have autism. Complete survey results are
available at www.generationrescue.org/survey.html."
Just sayin.
|9.12.07 @ 11:14AM|#
Here's an old article (2001)
(http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers_pr.html)
from Wired magazine that talks about the higher than average
occurrences of Autism and Asperger's syndrome within the Silicon
Valley communtiy; the basic premise is that couples with high
systemization capacities are have a greater chance of producing
children with hyper-systematizing brains.
|9.12.07 @ 11:21AM|#
Number 6,
I don't see medicalization as necessarily a bad thing. Society will
always decide whether they don't like it or not, but atleast
they'll understand it more.
Episiarch|9.12.07 @ 11:23AM|#
I took the test and scored 15, but I am a computer programmer
and math contest winner.
The test is stupid.
|9.12.07 @ 11:24AM|#
helen: Thanks for the link. The new link is to reports about new data that bolster Baron-Cohen's earlier work.
carrick|9.12.07 @ 11:24AM|#
Here's a test for Asberger's/autism. I scored 36. I am
exxxxxxtreme.
35 extreme -- my wife will nod her head and say she already new
that
|9.12.07 @ 11:27AM|#
And then...
I'd be suspicious of any study funded by an advocacy group. I'm
also suspicious of any study referring to a disorder with
diagnostic criteria as fuzzy as those for ADHD. It's also possible
that parents who vaccinate their children are more likely to
present them for a diagnosis of ADHD.
And, of course, all it purports to do is establish a strong
correlation.
Of course, that doesn't mean that we can dismiss the study out of
hand; it does mean that it falls well short of being
definitive.
|9.12.07 @ 11:28AM|#
LIT-Yes, then they'll classify it as a disability and feed little Johnny drugs to help him join the herd.
|9.12.07 @ 11:31AM|#
Number 6,
We must protect the hive, we must protect the queen!!!!
Humanity's destined to a collectivist future in any case.
|9.12.07 @ 11:31AM|#
I think I got a 42 when I took that test.
I'm just glad that nobody had heard of Asperger's when I was a kid.
I had enough problems. :)
|9.12.07 @ 11:31AM|#
At first I was anxious about how long this test was going to
take and considered quitting. Is that an indicator of
anything.
I too am a 15
Bhh|9.12.07 @ 11:32AM|#
34! Explains a lot.
I figure there's more autism because geeks are breeding. Because
now they can make a lot of money. This has to be a relatively new
phenomenon - just a generation or two. 100 years ago they would
have been weird loner farmers or something. You gets the money,
then you get the womens.
Timothy|9.12.07 @ 11:32AM|#
One of the best things my folks ever did for me was steadfastly refuse to stuff me full of medication because I was bored in school. They realized that school was boring and chided the teachers and principal into finding ways to challenge me. More parents should do that before shoving speed down their kids' throat.
|9.12.07 @ 11:33AM|#
Actually I guess it's more accurate to say I was well into middle age, and doing quite OK, before someone made up Asperger's.
Jennifer|9.12.07 @ 11:34AM|#
So what would an "extreme" version of the "female brain" be
like?
The children! Think of the children! Wrong? Nothing's wrong. What
makes you think there's something wrong? Well, if you
don't know what's wrong I'm certainly not going to tell
you. Jackass. Can't even bother to notice my new haircut, can you?
I had a QUARTER-INCH of hair cut off, but you can't be bothered to
notice, can you? You're so self-centered. Be honest, now: do these
jeans make me look fat? WHAT? You son of a bitch! How dare you call
me fat?
|9.12.07 @ 11:36AM|#
So what would an "extreme" version of the "female brain" be
like?
Perpertual sobbing mixed with sharp and heartless anger.
Episiarch|9.12.07 @ 11:46AM|#
Be honest, now: do these jeans make me look fat?
WHAT?
So...perpetual PMS? Damn.
Bhh|9.12.07 @ 11:48AM|#
Ok RM, I do believe I know someone with an extreme female
brain.
I had some quack diagnose me with ADD when I was in middle school
and my parents refused to medicate me too. I, uh, turned out ok I
guess. Which leads me to one of my favorite Simpson quotes:
Get down from that bookshelf, please. Most of those books haven't
been discredited yet!
|9.12.07 @ 11:58AM|#
Humanity's destined to a collectivist future in any
case.
Yes, but I'm going to fight it anyway.
|9.12.07 @ 12:00PM|#
I should belatedly note that I think online tests are generally
worthless, and I strongly dislike labeling people who act
differently as having (Asbergers | Autism | ADD | bipolar |
...)syndrome. That said, the test is fun, and maybe it explains why
I can barely function in society.
100 years ago they would have been weird loner farmers or
something.
The only reason I'm not is that I can't afford the land. I'll
settle for being a weird loner grad student for now.
|9.12.07 @ 12:04PM|#
Can someone explain why "fitting in" is an inherent (rather than utilitarian) good? What is it about having the herd approve of one that makes that person good?
|9.12.07 @ 12:05PM|#
Here's the paper from the Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry. It didn't convince me. Besides, better teaching methods shrunk the math skills gap between boys and girls in a few years. Viewing social skills as just another skill to practice makes more sense than medicalizing it.
|9.12.07 @ 12:13PM|#
Can someone explain why "fitting in" is an inherent (rather
than utilitarian) good? What is it about having the herd approve of
one that makes that person good?
Number 6,
There's nothing inherently good or bad about "fitting in".
Psychology and education majors tend to write the articles about
skills and personality traits. These deparments are full of social
people, so they tend to portray social skils as an inherent
good.
mcewen|9.12.07 @ 12:18PM|#
So many theories, so many opinions, so many viewpoints, but hey!
that's why it's called a spectrum.
Cheers dears
Miggs|9.12.07 @ 12:19PM|#
Edward | September 12, 2007, 10:30am | #
I'm waiting for a study that links testosterone levels to political positions. Maybe higher testosterone levels produce a visceral revulsion at any attempt to redistribute wealth. If Ayn Rand were alive today, would she be a candidate for a sex change operation? Is the nanny state simply a function of low fetal testosterone?
It's a good thing you decided to stop posting here, huh Edward?
|9.12.07 @ 12:27PM|#
Father of a diagnosed Asperger's kid who scored 37 on the test.
Pretty sure vaccines weren't the issue there.
Once we found doctors who knew what Asberger's was there was no
more talk of medication. Physical/occupational and social skills
training has left him a much happier, more comfortable and
functional person. He's always wanted to be able to play/interact
successfully with the other kids and he likes being able to do
better at it. If you want to call that "fitting in with the herd",
more power to you.
Me, I just wish we'd had some of that when I was growing up. I
figured out coping mechanisms of my own, but some help would have
made it a lot easier and less painful.
|9.12.07 @ 12:28PM|#
So what would an "extreme" version of the "female brain" be
like?
The children! Think of the children! Wrong? Nothing's wrong. What
makes you think there's something wrong? Well, if you don't know
what's wrong I'm certainly not going to tell you. Jackass. Can't
even bother to notice my new haircut, can you? I had a QUARTER-INCH
of hair cut off, but you can't be bothered to notice, can you?
You're so self-centered. Be honest, now: do these jeans make me
look fat? WHAT? You son of a bitch! How dare you call me
fat?
That was great, but I have to confess that my laughter caught in my
throat until I noticed it was written by Jennifer. Then everything
was okay; this was written by a woman; I'm not sexist after
all.
|9.12.07 @ 12:36PM|#
Warty,
When I talk on the phone, I'm not sure when it's my turn to
speak.
Cell phones make you autistic!
|9.12.07 @ 12:42PM|#
When I talk on the phone, I'm not sure when it's my turn to
speak.
Cell phones make you autistic!
Joe: I too found that question interesting. But for me it was more
confusing because I have some friends who, when talking to them on
the phone, you think have stopped to let you talk, but they're
really just taking a breath.
|9.12.07 @ 12:48PM|#
I scored a 25, just above your average math contest winner (which I had always considered myself anyway).
|9.12.07 @ 12:52PM|#
Yo, that's Sascha Baron-Cohen's brother.
So, like, my bro's this really important scientist n' shit, yo. He
says he's like strait up smart, but he never getz da punani, so he
ain't too smart to me...
|9.12.07 @ 1:56PM|#
Two minutes to Wapner.
Two minutes to Wapner.
Two minutes to Wapner.
Two minutes to Wapner.
Two minutes to Wapner.
One minute to Wapner.
|9.12.07 @ 2:06PM|#
This does pose a problem for the gender feminist doctrine that there are no mental gender differences. But that doctrine had plenty of problems already.
But by equating masculinity with autism it gives ammunition for the
feminist doctrine that men are defective and how women relate to
the world is normative.
Russ 2000|9.12.07 @ 2:33PM|#
Interesting that it is described as empathy vs. systems.
Makes welfare, and government in general, sound like disorders
because they are systematic not empathic.
dhex|9.12.07 @ 2:47PM|#
Can someone explain why "fitting in" is an inherent (rather
than utilitarian) good? What is it about having the herd approve of
one that makes that person good?
well, they're describing social skills, humans are social animals
yadda yadda yadda etc etc and so forth.
i like spending time alone, but i also like spending time in groups
so i think that makes me au-some.
|9.12.07 @ 3:12PM|#
Dr. "Baron-Cohen"? As in Sacha? Somehow I get the feeling that Borat is behind this research.
and then...|9.12.07 @ 3:24PM|#
then again, I scored an 8 on the test, and I'm up to date with all my mercury injections.
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