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Iggy Pop to Punks: Don't DIY
Iggy Pop, major label punk rock legend back on the road with The Stooges, slams the DIY ideology that has attached itself to punk since the Minor Threat days over at Pitchfork:
...that's what always annoyed me most about the American alternative/do-it yourself scene when I came up. It was simple. If you were the artist you were supposed to be cool, and the agent was supposed to be a crook, and the manager was supposed to be a creep, and everyone administrating was un-cool and the publicist was cheesy. You know, we all have our roles. But then the DIY guy says I am the guitar player, I'm the publicist, I'm the agent, and I'm the lawyer, too. So I look at the guy, and I'm like, okay, you've convinced me. You're a greedy, cheesy crooked creep with a guitar. Fuck you. I want nothing to do with you.
Does this sophisticated Misesian understanding of the importance of the division of labor prove that the Igster is a libertarian? Well, allright! He has always been aware that any old time, he has a right to move.
My 1997 reason cover story on the complicated attitudes toward capitalism and marketing among the indie rock and comics scenes.
|8.14.07 @ 3:23PM|#
Iggy Pop ceased to be relevant the moment his music started being used to sell cruise ship vacations. Getting name checked in Trainspotting was merely a blip in an otherwise uninterrupted downward trajectory.
|8.14.07 @ 3:35PM|#
If the artist is supposed to be cool, and the lawyers and
whatnot are cheesy, why wouldn't the cool person seek to
eliminate the cheese?
Methinks Iggy Pop is more into the perks of being famous than
making music...and well, I think his music sucks anyway. If he
weren't a self-destructive prick, nobody would give a crap about
his music.
I guess one should expect a man of limited intelligence to feel
threatened by people who are capable of taking on more roles.
|8.14.07 @ 3:37PM|#
I googled "Iggy Pop Cruise" to get the name of that song. What
word should pop up? "Crumbelievable"
That's Iggy Pop: Crumbelievable.
Stranger|8.14.07 @ 3:50PM|#
Two words: Stooges reunion.
A truly cool punk woulda let it lay, Ig.
Sorry.
|8.14.07 @ 3:53PM|#
Lawyers write better music than cool people and that has been
true since at least 1993. The proof:
farceswannamo.com
|8.14.07 @ 4:00PM|#
Did Iggy own the rights to his music or did someone else sell 'Lust for Life' to the cruise line?
ed|8.14.07 @ 4:03PM|#
I saw Iggy and The Pretenders on the same stage and it was a great show, notwithstanding the fact that both frontmen/women are full of shit.
mantooth|8.14.07 @ 4:59PM|#
Let's not forget his soundtrack entry in "Crocodile Dundee
II".
Sorry Iggy, not all of us have Bowie around to supplement our
income.
|8.14.07 @ 5:18PM|#
Even as someone who deeply loathes punk rock, I think Iggy is
full of crap on this. Perhaps he was too fucked up to see it back
in the day, but all of those cheesy, creepy music industry types
saw Iggy and his peers as little more than performing monkeys, whom
they could exploit for fabulous riches in return for a few dollars
and a handful of drugs.
Most relevant to today, perhaps Iggy hasn't noticed that the music
industry is in the process of imploding. The infrastructure no
longer exists to allow guys like Iggy to wander around in a heroin
haze while leaving others to worry about the details. Musicians in
virtually every genre are now producing and releasing their music
themselves, and actually reaping the rewards for their
efforts.
Maybe if Iggy had bothered to read the fine print in 1971 or so, he
wouldn't have to sell his songs for cruise ship ads.
SIV|8.14.07 @ 6:05PM|#
Punk rock?
The multi-disc Complete Fun House Sessions confirmed my long held
suspicion that Iggy is actually a Jazz artist.
|8.14.07 @ 6:45PM|#
Lamar,
and well, I think his music sucks anyway. If he weren't a
self-destructive prick, nobody would give a crap about his
music.
He may only have the three Stooges albums and a handful of other
tracks to which this statement applies, but...
Iggy Pop is the most important rock artist in the last 35 years.
Only so much of that can be attributed to his over the top
performance antics.
highnumber|8.14.07 @ 6:55PM|#
Iggy hating?!
No.
No. No. No.
Well, okay, but only because it makes him that much more punk
rock.
fyodor|8.14.07 @ 7:00PM|#
While I think Iggy's logic, taken literally, is dubious, since it obviously can work either way, he has a certain point, if only semi-inadvertently. I'm a DIY musician trying not to be. Why? Cause I wanna make music and let all those others take care of all that other crap. Perhaps the insight Iggy had that he didn't articulate very well is that all that other crap is crap. It doesn't mean a musician is crooked or cheesy if they wanna try to take it all on themself, but it means they'd have to deal with the crap that invites all those crooks and cheeseballs into those professions, rather than just play music. Ultimately, I don't think there's any right or wrong either way, it's just what you choose for yourself, and there's pros and cons whatever you choose. Just don't tell me your shit don't stink cause of that choice.
|8.14.07 @ 7:27PM|#
Did Iggy own the rights to his music or did someone else
sell 'Lust for Life' to the cruise line?
To speculate:
Given that it is a Bowie, Pop, Thurston production of a Bowie, Pop
composition recorded in 1977, it seems unlikely that Iggy Pop
wouldn't have some say in what happened. I'll bet Bowie has more
power, however, in making those kinds of decisions. No way Bowie
would have given complete control to the label by that point in his
career, however, imho.
Fritz|8.14.07 @ 7:29PM|#
It's just funny the way some of these DIY punks produce music and run their own labels and still (at least pretend to) hate the concept of business. It obviously follows that some people who work their asses off, like publicists and managers, deserve scorn for what they do.
SIV|8.14.07 @ 8:00PM|#
"The Passenger" and "TV Eye"(for some SUV--they shoulda used
"Dirt") have been used for commercials as well. I counted 4 or 5
Iggy songs in TV ads on one day a few years back.
I quit worrying about these sort of "sell-outs" back when Lou Reed
started shilling scooters.
|8.14.07 @ 10:29PM|#
"Iggy Pop is the most important rock artist in the last 35
years."
Oh dear. This whole time I thought it was Bad Brains. There, I
out-cooled you.
|8.14.07 @ 10:59PM|#
from about age 20 or so i have lived under the assumption that
there are these undiscovered great things out there...like bands
and books and art no one has paid attention to waiting to be
discovered and consumed by me.
Anyway that is why I like DIY...to bad 99.9% of their music is
crap.
lester bang\'s ghost|8.14.07 @ 11:46PM|#
"Iggy Pop is the most important rock artist in the last 35
years."
For Neu, I woulda guessed the bands as "Rage Against the Machine"
or "Consolidated".
e|8.14.07 @ 11:51PM|#
"The Weirdness" rocks. "My Idea of Fun" and "The Weirdness" are both great songs and got some heavy rotation on my favorite station KUSF. And I say that as a big time "computer turd" who works on "surf engines" ;)
Michael|8.15.07 @ 12:18AM|#
Three of the most over-rated (read: completely shitty) acts in
rock & roll history are as follows:
Velvet Underground
The Stooges
MC5
Any of you aging I-was-there-man "punks" who will argue otherwise
can suck pungent, festering baby boomer ass for all eternity.
e|8.15.07 @ 12:35AM|#
Michael, may we be enlightened as to the names of the artists in the popular music scene, past or present, which you deem worthy of your erudite praise?
|8.15.07 @ 3:34AM|#
Michael,
Fuck you for thinking the Velvet Underground is overrated. Lou Reed
solo, maybe.
List to CRASS! They're the only punk rock I can stand these days,
which is a damn shame because they broke up, never to return (I
hope to god), in 1984.
The generals and politicians who advocate war should be made to
wade in the truth of it,
They should spend sleepless nights shivering with fear and by day
time should crawl in the deathpit. -"Major General
Despair"
Never mind the hackneyed remix of that song, "The Unelected
President," after GWB's 1st election. Since when do anarchists care
if politicians are elected or not?
|8.15.07 @ 3:37AM|#
And MC5 is great, if only for comedic value. You know, they
started the "White Panther Party," supposedly as a white auxiliary
to the Black Panther Party. Like the BPP, the WPP came up with
their own 10-point program. Their first point was: We support all
10 points of the BPP program. All 9 remaining points had to do with
free pot and fucking in the streets.
Oh, the yippies and their ilk. Good times.
Tobias|8.15.07 @ 8:51AM|#
How exactly does this make him a libertarian? What is
un-libertarian about wanting to produce music on one's own? This
doesn't make him a libertarian. It makes him a corporate
shill.
Unless those are the same thing.
|8.15.07 @ 9:34AM|#
"How exactly does this make him a libertarian?"
It doesn't. It makes him a hipper-than-thou prick who hangs around
with Bam Margera, as if Pop wasn't a douche enough on his own
merit.
|8.15.07 @ 10:07AM|#
I guess one should expect a man of limited intelligence to
feel threatened by people who are capable of taking on more
roles.
Iggy Pop may be many things, but unintelligent is not one of them.
He's remarkably fast-witted, articulate and sharp -- even after all
those years of self-abuse.
|8.15.07 @ 10:21AM|#
I'm a DIY musician trying not to be. Why? Cause I wanna make
music and let all those others take care of all that other crap.
Perhaps the insight Iggy had that he didn't articulate very well is
that all that other crap is crap. It doesn't mean a musician is
crooked or cheesy if they wanna try to take it all on themself, but
it means they'd have to deal with the crap that invites all those
crooks and cheeseballs into those professions, rather than just
play music.
Well, sure. On that same theme, I'd love to have someone else do my
job for me so that I could spend more time doing fun things like
playing guitar. Life occasionally requires one to do non-fun things
to put the food on the table, even if music somehow becomes your
job.
|8.15.07 @ 11:16AM|#
Lamar,
Bad Brains are great, but pulling a Bad Brains card in an
"out-cool" competition is pretty lame.
Not even up there with The Ex or Mission of Burma ... what else you
got in that deck, a Fugazi?
;^)
Iggy Pop may be many things, but unintelligent is not one of
them.
Here
http://www.ucd.ie/cai/classics-ireland/95/Pop95.html
is a link to Iggy's publication in a journal of classical
scholarship.
|8.15.07 @ 11:19AM|#
Lester Bang's Ghost:
Mere blips those two.
I will give Consolidated, but their sister band The
Beat Nigs are more to my taste.
|8.15.07 @ 11:26AM|#
Mission of Burma? Perhaps you are unaware that Moby.....he he
he.....can't stop laughing....Moby.....not MOBs fault...but ha ha
ha ha ha....
I'd say Ian MacKaye's punk rock credentials tower over Iggy's, and
I don't even like Minor Threat or Fugazi, and have an even worse
opinion of The Evens.
However, you apparently didn't catch the snark in citing Bad
Brains. As far as punk is concerned, Iggy sort of an old gramps we
say we love out of respect, but secretly we wish he'd die. Hell,
I'd put the Dwarves over Iggy Pop.
|8.15.07 @ 11:56AM|#
Lamar,
I caught your snark and snarked back... did you miss it?
Taste in these things is entirely subjective.
Objectively, Iggy has probably influenced more rock bands than
anyone else we've discussed here, but whether that makes him
important or not is entirely a subjective decision.
As for Ian MacKaye...when we played shows with his bands back in
the day ("out-cool" card laid down, your move;), he seemed a nice
enough guy (a bit self righteous), but he only towers over Iggy in
terms of punk rock cred. because Iggy predates punk by half a
decade. Iggy was never a punk. He just laid the musical foundations
for punk.
I didn't claim he was the most important punk rock musician. But
the most important ROCK musician. Punk is a small slice of the rock
world.
Snark back at will...
For cool band reference: Tupelo Chain Sex, best show ever!
|8.15.07 @ 12:35PM|#
"But the most important ROCK musician."
And yet, I'd put many punk rock musicians above Iggy even in the
overall rock category. The reason I used the Bad Brains snark was
because people cite to Bad Brains as a big influence but really
haven't heard much of their music. I've found the same true with
Iggy Pop. People say he influenced them because he cut himself once
in NYC.
"when we played shows with his bands back in the day
"
Thank god I'm already on record as saying his bands suck.
Otherwise, you might think it was just a hipster response to say
that I'm unimpressed.
If you said you'd met Iggy Pop, now that would be impressive. Not
'cause I think the guy is worth a damn, but because it would be
really cool for you to get to play a show with your idol like
that.
|8.15.07 @ 12:37PM|#
you iggy dissers are so wrong!!!!!!!!
the stooges "funhouse" and iggy's solo works "the idiot", "lust for
life", new values" are CLASSICS. and the man is a very intelligent,
funny guy.
|8.15.07 @ 12:40PM|#
and it is impossible to overrate the velvet underground. no matter how many annoying kiddie hipsters like them, they are indisputably great. and much of lou's solo career is great too.
fyodor|8.15.07 @ 12:47PM|#
Well, sure. On that same theme, I'd love to have someone
else do my job for me so that I could spend more time doing fun
things like playing guitar. Life occasionally requires one to do
non-fun things to put the food on the table, even if music somehow
becomes your job.
Let's make a distinction. One which Iggy didn't. But then, no one
else here has either, or at least not clearly. There are people who
are DIY because they essentially have no choice. They're not making
enough money to make it worth it to hire agents and lawyers. If
Iggy was dissing these folks, that's fucked, and I can see ChrisO's
point. But I have a hard time imagining that was what his comment
was about. There's also an ethos, a very lefty constructed one,
that says that you're more moral and more pure if you don't get
your hands dirty by working with lawyers and agents and publicists
(and labels!) and thus you should do it all yourself, and
you're "better" for that. I think that ethos is what Iggy was
taking aim at, and while I don't especially agree that handling
your own business and legal affairs necessarily makes you crooked
or cheesy, I can see the point you're getting yourself into areas
that are really not about the music itself and you're gonna pay a
price for that. It's not like your hands are gonna stay clean that
way! Anyway, I think the larger point is that there's simply
nothing wrong hiring other people to do what you'd rather not, if
you can. If you can't, or would rather not, well, nuthin wrong with
that either!!
|8.15.07 @ 12:53PM|#
There's also an ethos, a very lefty
libertarian/self-reliant one, that says that you're more moral and
more pure if you don't get your hands dirty by working with lawyers
and agents and publicists (and labels!) and thus you should do it
all yourself, and you're "better" for that.
Well, I agree with it now. Some musicians are rock stars, some are
process-people, some care only about music, some care about some
sort of societal impact, etc. Iggy's a rock star. Nothing wrong
with that.
|8.15.07 @ 1:25PM|#
Lamar,
Not 'cause I think the guy is worth a damn, but because it
would be really cool for you to get to play a show with your idol
like that.
I wouldn't call Iggy my musical idol by a long stretch, despite my
opinion that he has been very important for the development of rock
and the fact that I still listen to Fun House and Raw Power on a
regular basis.
By the time I was playing shows, it would have been during Iggy's
lamest solo days... it would have sucked to play shows with him
then.
As for the influence of the Stooges on Punk Rock...
As best as I can determine the first band to claim the term "Punk
Rock" was Suicide. The first to popularize the term was The
Ramones. Both bands cite The Stooges as their primary musical
influence. Musically, there are hints of punk rock as far back as
the early sixties, but the people who first labeled themselves
"Punk Rock" are direct descendants of The Stooges. I think,
however, that the bigger impact of The Stooges is on more
mainstream acts. Just his influence on Bowie sends waves out
through the rest of the AOR world to this day.
people cite to Bad Brains as a big influence but really haven't
heard much of their music
As a musician I have been influenced by musicians based on a phrase
in one of their songs without having heard anything else by them.
There is nothing disingenuous about claiming influence from someone
you don't have an archivists appreciation for.
I was in a band once that largely stole our sound from a single
song I recorded off of the radio. We never even figured out who it
was.
|8.15.07 @ 1:34PM|#
Lamar,
The closest I have come to playing a show with a musical idol (if
that is a useful term), is attending a workshop and getting to meet
Max Roach. As a drummer it don't get much cooler than that.
|8.15.07 @ 1:45PM|#
Next card in the "out-cool" game.
I see you like Dwarves.
Have played shows with them...Blood, Guts, & Pussy era, iirc.
Once on a big bill, seems like Rocket From the Crypt was on the
bill too, and the Adolescents, but I may be misremembering.
Our opening gig for KMFDM got canceled.
Silly exercise really.
But I guess better than working...to which I now return.
;)
|8.15.07 @ 2:01PM|#
Anyway, I think the larger point is that there's simply
nothing wrong hiring other people to do what you'd rather not, if
you can. If you can't, or would rather not, well, nuthin wrong with
that either!!
That's a statement I can certainly agree with.
BTW, Black Sabbath is the most important rock band of the last 35
years.
|8.15.07 @ 2:46PM|#
I put the Dwarves, and that glorious album cover that they've tried to retread 3 or 4 times now, as one of the coolest bands ever. However, their music, like Iggy Pop's, is just mediocre. And I'm not particularly impressed with name dropping, whether we do it now or the Ramones did it in the 70s. I think the Dwarves are awesome, and the fact that hewhocannotbenamed faked his death is badass, but I'd rather take guitar lessons from Esteban.
fyodor|8.15.07 @ 3:07PM|#
There's also an ethos, a very libertarian/self-reliant one,
that says that you're more moral and more pure if you don't get
your hands dirty by working with lawyers and agents and publicists
(and labels!) and thus you should do it all yourself, and you're
"better" for that.
Ridiculous. Sure, libertarians will preach against reliance on
government handouts, and it takes all kinds so I wouldn't say
there's no libertarian anywhere who says such things, but as a rule
libertarians have no problem with commerical interaction as a means
to improve one's lot nor division of labor (that being Doherty's
point in the first place!). You seem to be confusing libertarians
with survivalists.
|8.15.07 @ 3:45PM|#
I'm just saying that entrepreneurship is no lefty
construction.
Neu Mejican: Though you won't convince me that Iggy Pop isn't
Crumbelievable®, I bow down before your old school coolness. Time
to go listen to more Big Business. 8)
|8.15.07 @ 4:01PM|#
Iggy Pop is the most important rock artist in the last 35
years.
BTW, Black Sabbath is the most important rock band of the last 35
years.
http://www.vh1.com/shows/dyn/the_greatest/62188/episode_about.jhtml
27. Iggy Pop
26. Motörhead
25. Cheap Trick
24. Iron Maiden
23. Judas Priest
22. Deep Purple
21. Pearl Jam
20. Alice Cooper
19. The Clash
18. Ozzy Osbourne
17. The Ramones
16. Cream
15. Pink Floyd
14. Soundgarden
13. Queen
12. The Sex Pistols
11. Aerosmith
10. KISS
9. Guns N' Roses
8. The Who
7. Van Halen
6. Nirvana
5. Metallica
4. AC/DC
3. Jimi Hendrix
2. Black Sabbath
1. Led Zeppelin
fwiw,
95. Fugazi
99. Bad Brains
Individual artist in the top 30...
Iggy Pop
Alice Cooper
Ozzy Osbourne
Jimi Hendrix
|8.15.07 @ 4:42PM|#
FWIW, Nirvana, Motorhead and, arguably, The Ramones are
"individual artists." Nirvana might as well be "Kurt and the
Stooges" and Lemmy is Motorhead. Obviously I think Joey is the
Ramones, but I can't imagine the schtick working without the
matching outfits.
Also FWIW, I am completely embarassed that I cited anything on that
list as cool, even if it was at 99.
|8.15.07 @ 6:33PM|#
Lamar,
What's Dee Dee, chopped liver?
And the two Phils ("Philthy Animal" Taylor, and Phil Campbell)
might disagree with you about Motorhead.
|8.15.07 @ 6:48PM|#
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dee_Dee_Ramone
"Douglas Glenn Colvin) (September 18, 1952[1] - June 5, 2002) was a
German American Canadian songwriter and bassist, best remembered as
a founding member of punk rock band The Ramones.
Though nearly all of the Ramones' songs were credited equally to
all the band members, Dee Dee was the group's primary
lyricist..."
|8.16.07 @ 12:07AM|#
I'll bend on the Ramones. Absolutely not on the Motorhead. And no, I don't know how to do the nifty umlaut thing. I guess the consensus is that The Stooges were chopped liver. I'm surprised Tom Petty didn't make it higher, and I'm thankful that Elvis Costello didn't.
|8.16.07 @ 12:05PM|#
Lamar,
Stooges: not chopped liver.
Iggy's claim is predicated on their musical foundation...even if it
is pretty clear that he was the leader of the band. Iggy, however,
did enough good stuff post-Stooges to makes some claims on his
own.
As for Motorhead, you would have to convince me that the band did
anything good without at least one of the two Phil's around to
allow Lemmy sole claim to their sound.
|8.16.07 @ 12:42PM|#
I don't hold loyalty against Lemmy, if anything, I salute him
for it. It's just another float in the Iggy is a douche
parade.
I was discussing this last night with a friend, and the best I can
say is that Iggy Pop must be one of those "You had to be there"
kind of acts. Like Elvis' music is mediocre, but you have to give
him props because he was the first rock star. Iggy's music, aside
from some classics, sucks, but you have to give him props because
he was the first to do whatever it is people see in him.
|10.30.09 @ 12:28PM|#
if one could find it check out the cd release 2001 "THE MOST POWERFUL MUSIC ON EARTH" 1975-1977 The Punks from detroit, mi. Unbeleavable Raunch!!!
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