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About the Last Barry Bonds Post You're Likely To See for a While (History Is Made Edition)
Just last
night, Jacob Sullum summarized recent reason
writing on the issue of Barry Bonds and steroids, plus throwing
in the question of whether he's a cyborg jerk, rather than a
straight-up human one.
But in any case, Bonds did hit the record-breaking dinger last night, and got a nice Jumbotron congrats from Hank Aaron (Babe Ruth was peevishly silent on the achievement). So Hit & Runners, what do you think of it all? And isn't it odd that Bonds' record will surely be eclipsed within the next decade by either Alex Rodriguez and/or Ken Griffey Jr.?
And whether or not that happens, will anyone care in 25 years that Bonds was likely juicing?
Pipe up now, because Bonds, baseball, and the whole steroid thing just got less interesting for a while.
Update: Just because folks in the comments section are going wild about their favorite records, let me take an editor's perogrative and throw in mine: Hack Wilson's single-season RBI record of 191, set in 1930. Quite possibly the most impressive offensive record in baseball, by a guy who was 5'6" tall, weighed 195 pounds and had a size 18 neck and size 6 shoes. Though also one that was the result of alcohol as a performance-enhancer. Wilson was fond of saying (read: lying) that he never played drunk, only hungover. Whatever the truth was, 191 RBIs is a record that will stand for a very long time.
|8.8.07 @ 11:16AM|#
In 25 years, everyone will remember that Bonds was juicing, and his homerun total will be considered a less impressive achievement than those of Ruth and Aaron.
|8.8.07 @ 11:23AM|#
I agree with joe. There will always be an asterisk next to Bonds' name (and probably other that follow) regarding steroid use (and now possibly Cyborgism)
|8.8.07 @ 11:26AM|#
no one likes barry bonds, no one is happy about steroids in baseball. No one will like the fact that he has the record, and no one will respect the acheivement.
Timothy|8.8.07 @ 11:29AM|#
I'm pretty sure that A-rod is going to break Bond's record. If
he averages 30 a season for the rest of his career he'll do it
pretty easily. 30 is pretty high, but since becoming a full time
player in 1996, he's only had once season with fewer than 30 HR and
that year he hit 23. In 25 years I think Bonds will still be
tarnished, but fewer people will care because he'll have been
beaten.
For the record, I don't care about the juicing, but I do care that
he's a dickwad. I also care that he hasn't been a decent fielder in
about six years at least. His last defensive award was in 1998,
almost a decade ago. I'm pretty sure that if he hadn't had to sit
out 2005 he'd be retired already. There was a time when Barry Bonds
was a truly great baseball player, but he's always been a known
asshole.
His offensive accomplishments are truly amazing, but being such an
asshole really takes away from that, I think.
|8.8.07 @ 11:29AM|#
I think all of this will be a distant memory in a couple of years since A-Rod will most likely beat Bonds' record.
|8.8.07 @ 11:30AM|#
In 25 years, everyone will remember Bonds was juicing, and his
homerun record will be considered more impressive for being a
pioneer in a Luddite league.
Heh, just kidding. No one cares.
|8.8.07 @ 11:30AM|#
Ditto to all of the above.
I wish every pitcher he faced had decided to just walk him. I am
thoroughly unimpressed.
BeingClever|8.8.07 @ 11:35AM|#
I've always understood the Bonds drama like this: Quite aside from the whole juicing scandal, he's universally revered as a class-a dick, and because people don't like dicks, they're less forgiving about everything else that he does. Contrast him with, say, Junior, who's a guy everyone can root for. There will be a lot less drama when he overtakes Bonds. In 25 years, he'll be a footnote. Then as now, everyone will care about the record, nobody will care about Barry Bonds.
Timothy|8.8.07 @ 11:35AM|#
In other baseball news, I think DiMaggio's hit streak is the least likely record to be broken, ever. The closest anybody else has come recently was Jimmy Rollins at 36. You have to go back to Pete Rose in 1978 to even get within a dozen of Joltin' Joe.
|8.8.07 @ 11:36AM|#
The more often a record is broken the less revered it is. The only baseball record (possibly in all of sports record) that's going to get non-fans attention is DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak. But no one's ever going to break that. Not on this planet.
Timothy|8.8.07 @ 11:43AM|#
I also think Ted William's single-season BA record is unlikely to fall, but I think that's more doable than DiMaggio's record.
|8.8.07 @ 11:44AM|#
They used speed in the 60's and 70's and steriods today.I don't care either way.
|8.8.07 @ 11:45AM|#
While it is unlikely that Joe D's record will be broken, the only truly safe record is Cy Young's 511 career victories. The way pitchers are handled these days, the great ones wil be lucky to get 300.
|8.8.07 @ 11:45AM|#
Timothy & Warren,
What about Cal Ripken's 2,632 consecutive games played streak?
That's a record that would be absolutely mind-boggling for anyone
to break. You pinch a nerve in your back in the fourth year of your
career, and boom, you've got no chance to break that record.
Then to get really technical, there's Johnny Vandermeer's no-hitter
streak of 2, set in 1938. That is, he pitched no-hitters in two
consecutive games.
|8.8.07 @ 11:45AM|#
The hardest record to break is Cy Young's 511 Wins. You need to win 25-26 wins a year for 20 years to break that one. Dimaggio's will get more respect though because some people will actually sometimes toy with breaking that one, no one is going near Cy Young's record.
|8.8.07 @ 11:45AM|#
DiMaggio's hitting streak can at least be occasionally challenged and al leat potentially breakable, which makes it the most interesting of the "big" baseball records . On the totally unbreakable side, I think Cy Young's 511 wins are pretty safe, as are Johnny Vander Meer's back to back no-hitters.
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 11:46AM|#
Babe Ruth was peevishly silent on the achievement
[thread winner]
That's because The Babe learned way too late that BEER is not as
effective at personal enhancement as Steroids are.
Babe Ruth's achievement is altogether more impressive because he
was an out-of-shape, cigar smoking, beer swilling, womanizer who
burned the candle at both ends until it burned out entirely after a
mere 53 years. He partied so much that his roomate once said that
he didn't room with The Babe he roomed with his suitcase.
Now there's a guy you want your sons to look up to. :-)
|8.8.07 @ 11:52AM|#
In 25 years no one will remember Baseball, the guy with the most awesome Second Life Avatar will be worth 1 Trillion Ron Paul Au Units, & all the jocks will vie for the Quidditch leagues.
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 11:52AM|#
Owen Wilson set a record of 36 triples in 1912, a little known record that is likely one of baseball's unbreakable records
|8.8.07 @ 11:55AM|#
TWC,
Uh, keep in mind that the Babe was playing at a time when the field
of pitchers was weakened by the exclusion of blacks and
Latinos.
|8.8.07 @ 11:55AM|#
Nolan Ryan's Strikeout and No-Hitter records aren't very likely
to be broken either. His strikeout total of 5714 is over 1000 more
than the next closest guy - Roger Clemens. And no-hitters are
flukes for the most part and to have like 7 of them is almost
ridiculous.
Also, no one will Steve Howe's seven lifetime suspensions for
cocaine.
|8.8.07 @ 11:56AM|#
In 25 years, baseball fans will still be obsessed with statistical minutia, and no one else will care. E-Cybo-Bonds will be playing in the Blernsball league well into his eleventyteens, and there will be much rejoicing.
|8.8.07 @ 11:58AM|#
Babe Ruth's achievement is altogether more impressive
because he was an out-of-shape, cigar smoking, beer swilling,
womanizer who burned the candle at both ends until it burned out
entirely after a mere 53 years.
In all fairness to the Babe, he wasn't fat in his early playing
days (see
here. It's just there were a lot more cameras around towards
the end of his career when all that beer caught up with him.
That being said, I agree that Ty Cobb's record is least likely to
be broken, given the current trends in pitching (hell, we'll
probably never see another 300 game winner, let alone 500).
Streaks, be they DiMaggio's or Ripken's, are hard to break simply
because there's so much luck involved. I'll also second
Slimchicken's comments about Nolan Ryan (which I was just about to
post myself).
|8.8.07 @ 11:58AM|#
In 25 years, the record will be owned by "Buck"
Bokai.
Correction, that was the hitting streak record, and it was in
2026.
|8.8.07 @ 11:58AM|#
In other baseball news, I think DiMaggio's hit streak is the
least likely record to be broken, ever.
ESPN tried to pass that off as the #1 unbeatable record in a Who's
Number 1? episode. Total bunk. That's definitely achievable. It's a
couple of the big lifetime records that won't be broken.
And Cal's record is second to Cy Young's. 511 will never be
touched. I'd be surprised if anyone ever gets 400 again.
Timothy|8.8.07 @ 11:59AM|#
Y'all are right about pitching records.
511 is INSANE, back-to-back no-hitters is insane. The consecutive
game streak is also a pretty unlikely record to fall. I also think
Nolan Ryan's strikeout record is probably pretty safe for the same
reasons y'all mentioned and I think seven career no-hitters is also
a pretty safe record. Ryan is arguable one of the greatest pitchers
of recent memory and he only had 324 wins. Of course, so much time
with the (dis)Astros didn't help that any and neither did starting
his career having to compete with Tom Seaver and Jerry Koosman.
x,y|8.8.07 @ 11:59AM|#
At current immigration rates, in 25 years no one will care about
baseball period, let alone baseball records. Viva futbol!
And yes, I know baseball is quite popular down south.
|8.8.07 @ 12:02PM|#
As difficult as it would be to break the career wins record, given the reduced number of starts pitchers are given, the single season record is even more untouchable.
|8.8.07 @ 12:04PM|#
Rickey Henderson's stolen base record is unlikely to be broken. The stolen base has become devalued in today's game (due, in part, to the sabremetricians)
|8.8.07 @ 12:06PM|#
Great, now I'm on a baseball stats kick. There goes another
summer afternoon...
Fittingly, Cy Young also is the all-time leader in losses
(316).
Single-season loss record: 48, by John Coleman in 1883. Since 1900:
Bob Groom and Happy Townsend of Washington are tied with 26.
Just try to beat that one!
|8.8.07 @ 12:07PM|#
He may be an a-hole juicing cyborg incapable of throwing out the
world's slowest man (Sid Bream) but I don't begrudge him his
accomplishment. Why? Because back when I followed baseball, I was a
Giants fan, and he SAVED that franchise.
However, I still don't actually, you know... care.
Will baseball go the way of hockey? With it dying without
technically dying but no one noticing? Maybe. But it has the good
sense to occur during the summer when there's nothing else to do
(except for the all-important annual Who's More Now debates.) So
while it lessens in importance every year, I do not think it will
every become the sad invalid that hockey now lives as.
|8.8.07 @ 12:10PM|#
"So while it lessens in importance every year..."
Fan attendance and team revenues are at (or very near recent)
record highs. That doesn't sound like it's lessening in importance
every year.
Timothy|8.8.07 @ 12:12PM|#
I also think Ichiro's single-season hits record is going to be safe after he retires.
|8.8.07 @ 12:12PM|#
Since we were talking Nolan Ryan and no-hitters, I just found this Bill James article where he shows that, based on number of starts and hits/inning, Nolan Ryan is actually expected to throw the most no-hitters in baseball history. Just thought fellow stat nerds might find it interesting.
|8.8.07 @ 12:12PM|#
It's funny, my mom grew up in Manhattan, and had been a big
Giants fan when they were in NY, so she was heartbroken when they
moved to SF.
Back in the mid-90s, when the Giants were talking about moving to
Tampa Bay, she was hoping it would happen just out of spite. Then
Barry came along and ruined that.
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 12:17PM|#
Crime,
The first Latin American to enter the big leagues was Luis Castro,
an infielder who played in 42 games with the Philadelphia Athletics
in 1902.
Also, Ted Williams was hispanic. Nanny.
The exclusion of blacks from MLB could not possibly have had any
effect on how well Babe Ruth hit the ball unless you assume that
all blacks are inherently better ballplayers than Italians, a fact
not in evidence, particularly given that pretty much the entire
line up of the Bronx Bombers was composed of guys of Italian
extraction.
Not every black pitcher was Satchel Paige and since there were
probably only 250 major league pitchers at any given time during
that era it would be a safe assumption that they were the very best
that MLB could come up with out of a non-black male population
numbering in the scores of millions. Throw in the sizable
contingent from Latin America and I'd say the pitchers that Babe
Ruth faced were damn good.
|8.8.07 @ 12:17PM|#
One untouchable record:
Mario Lemieux, in one game, scored in the only 5 ways to score in
Hockey:
1: Even Strength
2: Power Play
3: Shorthanded
4: Penalty Shot
5: Empty Net
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 12:21PM|#
Oh, and for the record, Reggie Jackson is also Hispanic.
|8.8.07 @ 12:21PM|#
At current immigration rates, in 25 years no one will care
about baseball period, let alone baseball records. Viva
futbol!
HA HA HA HA I don't care how many furners come flooding into this
country, the USofA will never give a rats ass about soccer. I
predict combat juggling will be the pro sport of the future.
|8.8.07 @ 12:30PM|#
The exclusion of blacks from MLB could not possibly have had
any effect on how well Babe Ruth hit the ball unless you assume
that all blacks are inherently better ballplayers than
Italians
Or if you believe that some black pitchers who were excluded from
the game were better than some of the white pitchers who were in
the majors. Which isn't a terribly hard thing to believe.
|8.8.07 @ 12:35PM|#
Dimaggio only had a 56-game hit streak because around 37-38
games in, the official scorer ruled what was an obvious error on
the part of a fielder as a base hit.
Dimaggio didn't get a hit in 56 straight games. Not in reality,
anyway.
|8.8.07 @ 12:37PM|#
And whether or not that happens, will anyone care in 25
years that Bonds was likely juicing?
I don't know, but I know that the player who eclipses Bonds will be
revered (so long as he isn't also on steroids). Go Griffey!
|8.8.07 @ 12:38PM|#
Were I a major league pitcher facing Bonds I would groove an 80-mph pitch every time, the goal being to make a mockery of the silliness that is the home run record.
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 12:40PM|#
in all fairness to the Babe, he wasn't fat in his early
playing days (see here. It's just there were a lot more cameras
around towards the end of his career when all that beer caught up
with him.
Although Babe Ruth was dead before I was born, as a kid his
baseball sainthood remained intact for me and my friends. I
idolized him as much as anybody from the previous two generations
had. I never thought Babe Ruth was particular fat, just husky.
Also, later in his career he shaped himself up and scaled back on
the partying. Thanks for the link to the photo.
One thing many have forgotten about Babe Ruth is that he was kind
and generous and spent a lot of time and money working with
underprivileged kids.
|8.8.07 @ 12:41PM|#
It's pretty hard to see Griffey breaking home run record, especially if Bonds keeps playing for another year or two. The best bet right now seems to be Rodriguez, and maybe eventually my man Pujols (go Birds!).
Rhywun|8.8.07 @ 12:43PM|#
the USofA will never give a rats ass about soccer
Yes, because it requires actually paying attention to the game,
unlike the snorefest that is baseball.
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 12:45PM|#
Or if you believe that some black pitchers who were excluded
from the game were better than some of the white pitchers who were
in the majors. Which isn't a terribly hard thing to
believe.
I already gave you that and I repeat...not every black pitcher of
the era was Satchel Paige, which doesn't require belief because it
is fact.
|8.8.07 @ 12:45PM|#
"...unlike the snorefest that is baseball."
You made my Yadier Molina bobblehead cry.
Russ 2000|8.8.07 @ 12:45PM|#
I for one would like to see Craig Biggio hit by pitches a few
more times.
The way pitchers are handled these days, the great ones wil be
lucky to get 300.
The way pitchers are handled these days, it will take 15+ years
just to get 511 starts.
|8.8.07 @ 12:46PM|#
When Babe Ruth was in the orphanage in Baltimore, his nickname
was "Nigger."
His parents are unknown, and apparently, the other kids thought his
feartures looked black enough to call him that.
Wouldn't that be some irony - the idol of the segregated baseball
era, the guy in whose defense racists used to send Hank Aaron death
threats.
|8.8.07 @ 12:47PM|#
not every black pitcher of the era was Satchel
Paige
My point is that some of them were, and if the game was
desegregated, the sum total of pitching talent Babe Ruth faced
would have been greater.
GILMORE|8.8.07 @ 12:48PM|#
So Hit & Runners, what do you think of it
all?
(yawn)
huh? What happened?
Oh, a guy hit a ball over a fence. Again. Wow, thats great.
Baseball is a pretty @(#$*@# gay thing to get worked up
about.
The best thing the game has going for it:
A) beers served at the park are large
B) the game takes a very long time.
Ç) you dont need to pay very much attention for most of it
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 12:49PM|#
the USofA will never give a rats ass about soccer
Although I LOL at the sentiment I think you is wrong man. Soccer is
huge. Why do you think they call them SOCCER MOMS?
When I was a lad in HS PE they made us play soccer and we hated it.
Today kids love soccer. I'd bet there are more participants in
organized soccer than Little League and Pony League and Pop Warner
all put together. Don't quote me on that, I can't prove it. But it
would not surprise me in the least. In So Cal you can't use a
public park during soccer season because every square inch of green
grass is covered with kids kicking that ball around.
|8.8.07 @ 12:50PM|#
Yes, because (soccer) requires actually paying attention to
the game, unlike the snorefest that is baseball.
Snorefest? I'd rather have my ball sac shaved with a weed-whacker
than sit through that idiot sport called "soccer." Fuck it and the
hooligan socialist/nationlist pig-dicks who like it. Baseball is
far more complex and requires FAR more analysis and thought than
that stupid-ass gay-fuck sport of kicking a ball around like a
dickless little puke.
|8.8.07 @ 12:52PM|#
re: Nick's update
Hack Wilson's record doesn't seem all that unbeatable. It's a great
record to be sure but it doesn't quite boggle the mind the way
Ripken's streak does. As a matter of fact, I predict Prince Fielder
will break the record.
Signed
Milwaukee Brewer's fan.
|8.8.07 @ 12:57PM|#
i asked a bunch of people on the street if they thought he was a cheater http://coedmagazine.com/sports/1723
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 12:58PM|#
His parents are unknown
Actually Joe, Babe Ruth's dad owned a bar in Baltimore and the
family lived upstairs. Babe, like Richard Pryor living in a
whorehouse, learned some bad habits and got into a lot of trouble,
which resulted in him getting sent to the home for incorrigible
yoot several times during his childhood. His mom died when he was
13 and he spent much of the next 2-3 years in the orphanage where
he played baseball. The final entry in his records at St Marys said
something like he's gone to play baseball for the
Orioles
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 12:59PM|#
Jamie, that's pretty much how we thought of soccer when I was in high school. I got over it though.
Russ 2000|8.8.07 @ 1:01PM|#
My point is that some of them were, and if the game was
desegregated, the sum total of pitching talent Babe Ruth faced
would have been greater.
If the game wasn't segregated, there undoubtedly would have been
more than 16 major league teams at the time. The crappy white
starting pitchers of the day would still have had starting jobs.
The sum total of pitching would have been negligibly better.
And Babe would have had about 40 more homers if he batted on the
days he didn't pitch. Certainly the DH extended Aaron's career,
which enabled him to hit a few more HR's than he would have without
that rule. A rule that Bonds has had little opportunity to use in
his career.
Timothy|8.8.07 @ 1:04PM|#
Keep in mind also that in Ruth's day there wasn't a ground-rule double, things bouncing over the fence were homeruns. Well, okay, for his last five years in the league the ground rule double existed.
|8.8.07 @ 1:13PM|#
A few interesting changes in home run rules since Babe's
time:
1) Back then, balls that bounced over the fence (what would now be
ground rule doubles) were home runs.
2) Home runs that ended games and where the batter's run wasn't
needed weren't counted as home runs. So if the game was tied in the
bottom of the ninth with a runner on first, a home run would only
count as a triple.
3) There was a "fair when last seen" rule - "the ball had to not
only go over the fence in fair territory, but to land in the
bleachers in fair territory or to still be visibly fair when
disappearing behind a wall.... Bill Jenkinson, in The Year Babe
Ruth Hit 104 Home Runs, estimates that Ruth lost at least 50 and as
many as 78 in his career due to this rule." (quote from wiki's
"home run" entry)
|8.8.07 @ 1:14PM|#
Timothy,
Seriously? I've never heard that before, that would be a HUGE
difference!
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 1:14PM|#
My point is that some of them were, and if the game was
desegregated, the sum total of pitching talent Babe Ruth faced
would have been greater.
yes, but not enough greater.....
From 1901 until 1918 the home run records in both leagues ranged
from 7 to 16 per year. In 1919 Ruth hit 29. He followed that with
unheard of numbers ranging from the low 40's to the record year of
60.
It isn't likely that a few really great black pitchers could have
put a significant dent in those totals. And even if the overall
pitching was as much as 10% better how many fewer home runs would
that translate into?
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 1:16PM|#
Timothy, in his entire career Babe Ruth never bounced a ball
over the fence that would be considered a ground rule double by
today's standards.
The closest he ever came was hitting the top of the left field
fence at Yankee Stadium once. The ball dropped into the stands for
a homer.
|8.8.07 @ 1:18PM|#
Good point, Russ2000. There was plenty of attendance at the
Negro League games. I'd never thought of that.
Weren't the baseballs softer in Ruth's day, too?
Rhywun|8.8.07 @ 1:20PM|#
Fuck ... socialist ... pig-dicks ... stupid-ass gay-fuck ...
dickless ... puke
Ha ha ha... I love the sophomoric venom fans of complex
American sports always throw at soccer. You can set your watch to
it.
|8.8.07 @ 1:21PM|#
"...in his entire career Babe Ruth never bounced a ball over the
fence that would be considered a ground rule double by today's
standards."
That's really surprising given how often ground rule doubles happen
today, TWC. Do you have a ref for it?
Russ 2000|8.8.07 @ 1:27PM|#
That's really surprising given how often ground rule doubles
happen today, TWC.
No astroturf back then, and some very high walls.
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 1:29PM|#
Babe Ruth also had to contend with spitballs in his early
career, a larger strike zone, big parks, and pitchers whose style
was to play deadball, which Ruth would simply knock out of the
park.
Bonds has never hit a ball 500 feet, Babe Ruth did that 50 times.
In fact, many of Bonds home runs would not have been home runs in
Babe Ruth's Yankee Stadium.
|8.8.07 @ 1:31PM|#
"No astroturf back then, and some very high walls."
There are still plenty of ground rule doubles now that almost all
(outdoor) fields are back to natural grass. I don't know how
average wall height has changed since the 20's-30's, but I've
certainly seen some pics of old stadiums with very low walls in the
outfield (lower than you generally find them now).
|8.8.07 @ 1:34PM|#
TWC,
On the size of the parks, Bonds and Aarron never had the advantage
of 280 foot foul lines, either.
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 1:47PM|#
Babe Ruth also lost about 75 career home runs due to the pre-1931 fair/foul rules which stated that even if the ball left the field in fair territory if it curved foul after clearing the fence it was a foul ball and not a homerun.
VM|8.8.07 @ 1:51PM|#
Rhywun -
still as a fan of pitchers' duels/ beisbol and soccer, and
football, watching those insults thrown at baseball come off just
as "complex".
mike|8.8.07 @ 1:52PM|#
I think its always exciting to see a record broken, no matter who is breaking it. All those involved yesterday (Barry, Hank, and Bascik the pitcher) all delivered very classy statements and I enjoyed seeing history being made.
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 1:52PM|#
Babe Ruth's Yankee Stadium foul lines were right at 300' and 497 to center field.
|8.8.07 @ 1:53PM|#
In the era of juicing sluggers (Neifi Perez! - 3 time violator with 64 career HR's in 12 seasons), Bonds should be renowned as the greatest of his generation. The seasons he had from 2001 - 2004 were other worldly. Yeah, the guy's a jerk, but so what?!
|8.8.07 @ 1:56PM|#
TWC,
Didn't Ruth play in the Polo Grounds?
They were 280 down the foul linesm, but 500-something to dead
center.
|8.8.07 @ 1:59PM|#
john,
Neifi Perez (aka Dusty Baker's Man-Crush) was taking amphetamines,
not steroids. I'm just glad my Cubs got rid of him (and his
ridiculous contract) before this broke.
|8.8.07 @ 2:04PM|#
There were a few different stadiums (stadia? that just sounds stupid...) called Polo Grounds in NY. The Yankees played in one of them before Yankee Stadium was built.
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 2:04PM|#
Besides, the world record of 868 home runs is held by Sadaharu Oh or the Yomiuri Giants.
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 2:07PM|#
Crime, Although you are correct, the Yanks also played for 10
years at the Polo Grounds before Yankee Stadium was built.
Joe, Babe Ruth only played at the Polo Grounds a couple of years, I
believe the Yanks moved over to Yankee Stadium in 1921 or 1922.
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 2:10PM|#
Joe, and, yes the Polo Grounds had short foul lines.
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 2:13PM|#
He never had to hit top MLB pitching, so that doesn't count
either.
Jenkinson would disagree with that and actually claims that The
Babe would do better in today's game than in his own era. I don't
know that I necessarily agree with that but I can say that Ruth was
facing the best pitchers of the day less a few Satchel
Paiges.
Sparky--source is Jenkinson's book the Year Babe Ruth Hit 104
Homers or something like that.
|8.8.07 @ 2:46PM|#
TWC,
I was referring to the Yomuri Giants player with 850-some HRs. The
fact that the top Japanese players come to MLB while our rejects go
there shows which leagues are the best.
Jeff Fecke|8.8.07 @ 2:58PM|#
The best Hack Wilson story is that the Cubs' trainer used to get him ready for games by dunking him upside down in a pool of ice water, which doesn't sound like it would help, until you realize that it did have the effect of waking him up from his drunken stupor.
|8.8.07 @ 4:43PM|#
I also think Ted William's single-season BA record is
unlikely to fall, but I think that's more doable than DiMaggio's
record.
It's not actually a record. He's just the last guy to do it (hit
over .400, that is.) The all-time record is Hugh Duffy's .4397 in
1894. Nap Lajoie hit .4265 in 1901, the start of the "modern era."
George Sisler and Ed Delahanty both did it twice, and Ty Cobb and
Rogers Hornsby both did it three times each.
aaron|8.8.07 @ 4:47PM|#
Today kids love soccer. I'd bet there are more participants
in organized soccer than Little League and Pony League and Pop
Warner all put together
Soccer was huge when I was a kid (I'm 30) but that hasn't
translated into much support at the professional level.
|8.8.07 @ 4:55PM|#
The Future: Soccer is going to become huge here. We'll suddenly be the best in the world (because of how every school is plugged into creating tomorrow's pro-athletes). 4 World Cups wins in a row will be split between the US and Brazil. Eventually, this will piss off the rest of the planet, especially once we add instant replay to soccer. All of the other countries will find a new sport. Like rollerball or curling.
Russ 2000|8.8.07 @ 5:09PM|#
Weren't the baseballs softer in Ruth's day, too?
Here's a good wiki about the dead ball era:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead-ball_era
|8.8.07 @ 5:24PM|#
my favorite unbreakable record is 110 lifetime shutouts by The
Big Train (Walter Johnson). Clemens has 30-something & that's
the closest of current pitchers.
agree that Hack Wilson's record will never be touched - if nothing
else, pitchers can just walk you everytime there's 2 men on base.
Even Lou Gehrig's AL RBI record (184) will never be broken
either.
if you want to argue that all pre-integration records deserve an
asterisk, then Warren Spahn has the most victories of any pitcher
(non-asterisk fashion).
|8.8.07 @ 5:45PM|#
Has anybody done a study of offense by inning? Ruth's superior
HR numbers are often attributed, in part, to the fact that relief
pitchers were rarely used in Ruth's era. The rule affecting
game-ending HRs didn't affect Ruth much, since it was implemented
in '20 or '21.
Other Cy Young records that will never be broken are his 815 starts
and 749 (!!!) complete games.
The Wine Commonsewer-Reg US Pa|8.8.07 @ 6:54PM|#
I was referring to the Yomuri Giants player with 850-some
HRs. The fact that the top Japanese players come to MLB while our
rejects go there shows which leagues are the best.
ahh, thanks for clarifying.
|8.9.07 @ 2:52AM|#
Ultimate frisbee. There's the sport of the future.
Or maybe triathalons consisting of unicycling, tree climbing, and
red rover.
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