Democratic Debate IV Part II: It Hurts Worse Than Alice Cooper's Disappointing 1987 Album Raise Your Fist And Yell

Part one here.

8:13: What was that ad? A preview of the channel breaks once the Hillary Administration (2009-Ragnarok) brings back the Fairness Doctrine?

8:15: Let's cancel the election and make Mike Gravel president.

8:17: If John Edwards had a better teacher he wouldn't have to resort to that damn mill worker story whenever he's in a jam.

8:18: GWAR?

8:19: Ah, it was too much to hope that Richardson would endorse vouchers. He endorses, instead, the "Into the Groove" curriculum. ("You can DANCE! For inspiration!")

8:19:30: Biden: "I have great faith in Ted Kennedy." That's the problem with Democrats: A little thing called the First Commandment.

8:20: Edwards has four kids, they all went to public school. And it was next to a mill.

8:21: Yes, I believe Hillary Clinton when she says it was agonizing to send her daughter to public school. You Democrats really want to nominate... this?

8:23: In the next debate, Sam Brownback will kill Ann Laird behind the barn with a dull ax.

8:24: Elizabeth Edwards really needs to buy a bigger skirt if her husband is going to keep hiding behind it.

8:25: Monty Python gets to ask a question? Oh, no. It's just some crap. UPDATE: Biden with the zinger!

8:26: Mmmm, the drugs are kicking in. UPDATE: A magical snowman taught Dennis Kucinich the meaning of global warming. I think J.K. Rowling has her next project.

8:28: Mike Gravel got to mention the GREEN FAIR TAX! Take it away, Eddie!

8:31: Obama comes out for nuclear power, cutting like a Turkish scimtar through John Edwards' buttery pandering. He's really coming alive in the last 45 minutes.

8:32: Clinton supports rolling back corporate tax cuts and "American innovation." Funny thing about Americans: The more you tax them, the more splendid ideas they have!

8:34: It's odd to hear Democrats get exercised about voting machine reform -- they stopped caring so much once they realized Karl Rove wasn't rigging the 2006 election.

8:35: The next debate will be between Joe Biden and the guy who narrates his YouTubes. I thought Biden was against a speedy Iraq pullout...

8:39: Is that woman being held hostage by the woman with all the teeth?

8:41: Coming soon to your local Dairy Queen's night shift: Joseph Robinette Biden. A little levity in the predictable minimum wage panderthon.

8:42: More and bigger entitlements! Maybe if we keep increasing the minimum wage we can take larger deductions from those checks and pay for all of this.

8:45: One of Howard Stern's sidekicks asks if his taxes will go up. "No," says Dennis Kucinich. "We will destroy the economy."

8:46: How did all those fat people fit through the YouTube?

8:49: Obama: "Unlike Hillary Clinton -- that's her, to my right -- I'm not an embarrassing failure."

8:51: Edwards met a guy who got his cleft palate fixed when he was 50. Lucky for him he could kick! And jump. Aaaaand kick!

8:53: Dodd gone wild! Bill Richardson loves ditchdiggers.

8:54: Nice dodge Clinton has on the dynasty question. This is something irritates people like me -- by which I mean 25-year old journalists named "Weigel" -- but it's clearly not hurting her in the election.

8:56: Gravel sounds like he's railing against the Bilderburgers, but he's got a point, if you're a Daily Kos liberal. The Clintons really hollowed out the electoral strength of the Democratic Party. Terry McAuliffe, who's obviously a diehard Clintonite, was shocked at how disorganized and wimpy the Democratic National Committee was when he took over.

8:58: Ah, Obama's not quite there with the knife-in-the-heart Clinton dynasty answer. She really kicked him around on a question that should be uncomfortable for her.

9:01: Bill Richardson and Joe Biden make a bold stand against crazy people. "I'm the guy who originally wrote the assault weapons ban," Biden says.

9:04: "I admire and, uh, like very much, Barack." Our first cyborg president.

9:06: Look, everybody else is going to say it, so I will, too: Joe Biden is going to kill Dennis Kucinich and sleep with his wife.

FINAL THOUGHTS:

- Hillary wins. Luckily, I have a passport.
- Uh, you know, Obama, he's, I think, blowing it. Although he has a way of roaring back in the last 30-45 minutes, that doesn't work when a debate is longer than an Eric Von Stroheim home movie.
- Some people said Chris Dodd didn't actually have two daughters. Well, who's laughing now?
- People with guns are crazy! Who knew?
- The YouTube thing... worked. It was cloying and the campaign videos should have been cut, but it mostly worked. No moderator would have tossed out an athiesm question, although in the future it'd be nice to have a non-blowhard ask that question.

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  • TH||

    What the hell? Richardson's applause line on education is a federal dance program?

  • ||

    Did Gravel just come out in support of vouchers?

  • ||

    Gravel with the voucher zinger

  • Virginia Gentleman||

    Sweet Mary mother of God! I am in disbelief that an arch-liberal like Gravel said we need a bit of competition for our public schools!

  • John||

    They took the Red State guys! Sweet!

  • ||

    miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiIIIIIIIKE GRAVEL!!!!

  • ||

    ...has no money

  • John||

    Props for Anderson exposing environmental hypocrisy.

  • ||

    Mike Gravel!

  • crazy||

    Is anderson cooper the one anchor I may actually like?

  • ||

    and who else has noticed that conspicuous little livestrong bracelet on J.E.'s wrist(s?)?

  • ||

    and did Hil just call global warming a win?

  • John||

    "If I can go Starbucks and order the same thing, why can't I go to another state and vote the same way?" A little thing called the 10th amendment, sweetheart.

  • My coverage||

    I'm live-blogging it at the link.

    What I'd like to know is why there has only been one (1) question about a specific policy of a specific candidate (JE on gay marriage).

    All the other questions have just provided a chance for the candidates to launch into their stock speeches.

    Shouldn't someone point out just how badly CNN has screwed the U.S.?

  • Virginia Gentleman||

    Why do people find federalism so difficult to understand?

  • ||

    Loved the snowman. Made my night.

  • Jerry||

    Why are these videos not trying to break away some of the premises behind democratic position, instead of candidates being able to reinforce the message. Okay that one nuclear energy was maybe an exception, but what about a video that claims minimum wages causes unemployment? Then candidates really have to make an argument, instead of this superficial stuff.

  • ||

    Shouldn't someone point out just how badly CNN has screwed the U.S.?
    We do that every day my friend, every day.

    If you mean "Shouldn't someone in the debate point out just how badly CNN has screwed the U.S.?", I would leave that to Mr. Mike Gravel. Or alternatively, if John Stewart jumps on stage, drunk.

  • John||

    Look how hip and with it Kucinich is with the txting. LOLZ!

  • ||

    Damn, Gravel drops off the smart brigade.

    Of course they all have a lot of money.

  • ||

    seven.

    three.

    two.

    two.

    three.

  • ||

    Holy Shit! 33% of Medicare is Diabetes? I'm not paying anymore... except that it's withheld.. DAMN!

  • MattXIV||

    "If I can go Starbucks and order the same thing, why can't I go to another state and vote the same way?"



    That way we can get cheapo touchscreen machines from a politically connected company installed across the entire country at once!

  • ||

    Kucinich: "I'm not going to raise taxes. I'm going to reverse lowering taxes."

  • ||

    WOOO! FREE Medicine!

  • TH||

    Obama: "Why can't the wealthiest nation on Earth..."

    Drink!

  • ||

    Is there a republican youtube debate?

  • john||

    whiskey,

    it's sometime in september

  • MattXIV||

    Edwards - "My universal health care is more universal than your universal health care!"

  • Jerry||

    Diabetes. Right, because everyone is slugging down a 1.5 litre slurpie everyday. Why should I care for these irresponsible actions?

  • ||

    Is there a republican youtube debate?

    I bet 90% of the videos submitted are for Ron Paul, and CNN filters them out to give him 1 question

  • john||

    Way to answer the question Hill.

  • ||

    Chris Nolan with the first Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton question, and GRAVEL GOES WILD!

  • John||

    Anyone who talks that much about bankers can't be right in head, right?

  • John||

    What's Sanjaya doing submitting a video?

  • ||

    that's a pretty neat gun there

  • Sandy||

    That Van Halen concert was the first one I ever saw (well, that tour anyway).

  • ||

    Why'd Bill Richardson pussy out on guns, and start talking about poverty?

    Yes, Joe Biden, we know you wrote the assault weapon ban.

  • ||

    I like how atheists and gun owners are both fucking crazy on CNN

  • Giddyyyyyy-up! Horse.||

    My question for the candidates ... "Do any one of you ever think" Fuck America!"?

  • MattXIV||

    Just when I thought I couldn't hate Joe Biden more... And I don't even like guns.

  • Jerry||

    lol @Cooper

  • ||

    off topic:

    holy crap TWC got blogged at

    http://www.poorandstupid.com/chronicle.asp

  • ||

    MattXIV, Biden came back with that question about Kucinich's wife. She's fucking hot:

    http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k187/tarotlaydee/kucinich-la.jpg

  • Wolf Blitzer||

    I'M WOLF BLITZLER, IN THE SITUATION ROOM! WE HAVE A CAT, A CAT, A CAT IN A TREE, WE HAVE THE CAT FROM TWELVE DIFFERENT ANGLES! THERE IS STREAMING VIDEO OF THE CAT FROM THE SCREENS BEHIND ME FROM ALL ANGLES! THIS IS THE SITUATION ROOM!!!

  • ||

    Oh yeah...when the fuck did Cindy Sheehan become a libertarian!!!

    The Democrats are the party of slavery and were the party that started every war in the 20th century, except the other Bush debacle. The Federal Reserve, permanent federal income taxes, not one but two World Wars, Japanese concentration camps, and not one but two atom bombs dropped on the innocent citizens of Japan -- all brought to us via the Democrats.

    Don't tell me the Democrats are our "saviors" because I am not buying it...


    http://www.poorandstupid.com/2007_07_22_chronArchive.asp#7670648738756819430

  • Jerry||

    @joshua corning
    Ask LR.

  • ||

    Ron Paul shout-out by caller on CSPAN2 post-debate analysis!

  • D. Greene||

    Bonus points for the Von Stroheim reference!

  • ||

    WAIT WEIGEL!!

    Do something on the Sheehan piece before you pass out.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/07/22/INGC6R23F41.DTL

  • Giddddddy-up! Horse.||

    Here's one for da Dems ... Boo! Can you hear em knockin? Who, who , who?? Red, White and Jew!

  • ||

    Obama!Obama!Obama! You have me spinning white-boy wet-dreams for a black-daddy cream fantasies! Obama! Obama! Obama!

  • ||

    Just got home, and this really sucks...I can't find any video of the debate anywhere but CNN (where you have to install the "Turner plugin" to watch the video -- no thanks!).

  • Postmodern Sleaze||

    "The Democrats are the party of slavery and were the party that started every war in the 20th century, except the other Bush debacle. The Federal Reserve, permanent federal income taxes, not one but two World Wars, Japanese concentration camps, and not one but two atom bombs dropped on the innocent citizens of Japan -- all brought to us via the Democrats."

    Ah yes, but notice what happened when the Southerners switched parties...

    It ain't about the Dems (well, most of the time anyway). It's about that authoritarian stench that wafts from below the Mason-Dixon line...

  • ||

    Can I get a what-what? The Dems are soft-bellied demonoids from Planet Marx!

  • Ashish George||

    "Hillary wins. Luckily, I have a passport."

    Did you live in the U.S. from 1993 to 2001? It probably won't be much worse or much better than that.

  • ||

    Would, oh would, CNN dare to include Ron Paul in a YouTube debate? How much does anyone want to bet he gets snubbed?

  • ||

    It's about that authoritarian stench that wafts from below the Mason-Dixon line...

    That must be why Midwestern and New England blacks are flocking there in droves.

    As well as industry.

    I call you bullshit and laugh in your face.

  • Virginia Gentleman||

    It's about that authoritarian stench that wafts from below the Mason-Dixon line...


    Washington, Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe say "hi!"

  • ||

    Busybee flies like a magma spewing lava beast to the ninth heaven! Oh The Georgia, Oh the Bama! Little Dixie needs TVA! Little Dixie needs negroes and pork-barrel fun! Little Dixie needs Trent Lott and his hairspray conservatism! Little Dixie needs a new RFK!

  • iih||

    Is it too obvious that CNN for ages has been doing its best to promote and give advantage to Clinton? As is Fox news for Romney?

  • ||

    Don't forget it was a Massachusettser who signed the Alien and Sedition Acts, and Illinoisan who refused to let the South go their own way, a New Yorker who gave us the New Deal, and a Californian who imposed wage and price controls.

    There's plenty of blame to go around.

  • Mooninite and/or Witch||

    There's plenty of blame to go around.

    Massachusetts needs seconds.

  • George C Wallace||

    It's about that authoritarian stench that wafts from below the Mason-Dixon line...


    Aintree? this heah rivuh don't go nowheres near Aintree boy.

    Come on down you'll really like the scenic canoeing!

  • Jerry||

    It just dawned on me that Edwards needs to grow a mullet. Instant success guaranteed.

  • ||

    Massachusetts needs seconds.

    LOL. If it comes down to Giuliani vs. Hillary, New York may well go back to the trough as well. Though maybe we can blame Hillary on Illinois.

  • ||

    Is it too obvious that CNN for ages has been doing its best to promote and give advantage to Clinton? As is Fox news for Romney?

    No idea...if i had cable i would watch HBO, Adult Swim, CPSAN and the SciFi channel...

    Who is this Romney person everyone keeps talking about?

  • ||

    It just dawned on me that Edwards needs to grow a mullet. Instant success guaranteed.

    I thought Eddie was from California....or does that count as the south now?

  • ||

    Wow, that pretty much means I can't vote for a Democrat unless the GOP nominates Giuliani, Romney, McCain, Tancredo, Huckabee, Thompson, Brownback, Hunter or that lazy-assed actor guy. That recent "vote none of the above" thing (in Massachusetts?) is starting to sound pretty darned good.

  • ||

    "I thought Eddie was from California....or does that count as the south now?"

    No, Northern Mexico.

  • ||

    So wait, GWAR showed up in the debate? I missed it? :(

  • ||

    [i]Giddyyyyyy-up! Horse. | July 23, 2007, 9:04pm | #

    My question for the candidates ... "Do any one of you ever think" Fuck America!"?[/i]

    THAT would make me watch the debates! Why doesn't some candidate do a live broadcast where he/she answers the publics questions live on their own website? It's not cable news, but television is dead anyway. Why aren't they doing this yet? MEDIA ACCESS!

  • Anonymo the Anonymous||

    "It's about that authoritarian stench that wafts from below the Mason-Dixon line..."
    That must be why Midwestern and New England blacks are flocking there in droves.
    As well as industry.
    I call you bullshit and laugh in your face.


    Yes, the Southern economy has strong growth in many important sectors, and with that comes increased immigration to the region, including blacks leaving the North.

    But how does this contradict allegations that there are authoritarians in the South? If the charge was that Southerners are uneducated hicks who can't compete in a modern economy, your answer would make sense. If the charge was that blacks find the South more inhospitable than the North, then your citation of positive black immigration to the South would be a relevant response. But what does this have to do with authoritarianism?

    I myself am a Southerner, and I'd take issue with claims that Southerners are more authoritarian than others, but I don't see how your argument here makes sense.

  • bry4321||

    from Alice Cooper's raise your fist and yell:

    We the people of the United States
    In order to form a more perfect union

    Stop pretending that you've never been bad
    You're never wrong and you've never been dirty
    You're such a saint, that ain't the way we see you
    You want to rule us with an iron hand
    You change the lyrics and become Big Brother
    This ain't Russia, you ain't my Dad or Mother
    (They never knew anyway)
    'Cuz I never walk away from what I know is right
    But I'm gonna turn my back on you

    Freedom, we're gonna ring the bell
    Freedom to rock, freedom to talk
    Freedom, raise your fist and yell
    Freedom to rock, freedom to talk
    Freedom-ring

    You're playing God from your ivory tower
    Back off preacher, I don't care if it's Sunday
    I ain't no angel, but I never felt better
    We're a make-up metal degeneration
    We're not as stupid as you want to make us
    You better leave us man
    'Cuz you sure can't take us
    Nobody better tell you how to live your life
    You gotta do it on your own

    Freedom, we're gonna ring the bell
    Freedom to rock, freedom to talk
    Freedom, raise your fist and yell
    Freedom to rock, freedom to talk
    Freedom-ring

    Cuz I never walk away from what I know is right
    But I'm gonna turn my back on you

    Freedom, we're gonna ring the bell
    Freedom to rock, freedom to talk
    Freedom, raise your fist and yell
    Freedom

  • Randolph Carter||

    I think Edwards makes a fine Sleazy P. Martini, and who but Hillary Clinton could convincingly pull off the Slymenstra Hymen role?

  • ||

    Listening to Glenn Beck's take on the debate made me think maybe it wasn't so bad. He said Hillary is a socialist because she prefers the (more accurate) term "progressive" which, according to Beck-logic, means "marxism and socialism." Then he talked about Democrats being for big gov't (he's right on that) and that they are embarassed to be called liberals, whereas conservatives are never embarassed to be called conservatives. Of course, this came after a 4 minute tirade about how the Republican party has ditched the true conservatives and he is embarassed for that party, so basically he was saying both left and right have something to be embarassed about, only I doubt the 'necks in this area figured that out. He raged on about how the GOP has lost its emphasis on small government, and pleaded for a small gov't candidate. The soft-spoken obstetrician's name didn't come up. Of course, Glenn Beck isn't very bright.

  • ||

    Now that the Democrats have all refused to self-apply the term liberal, do you think they'll let us have it back?

    I'll go get the Febreeze™

  • ||

    Both the Dems and the Repubs presidential contenders are seriously lacking in appeal to me. The only difference between them is who they are selling us out to and even that difference isn't as pronounced as there respective followers would have us believe. You can have big government liberals or big government conservatives both who believe it is the USA's destiny to bring Democracy (tyranny of the majority, who vote) to the undeserving foreigners. Ron Paul is the only candidate that will try to ensure that we regain some of the freedoms that we have lost to our fear and ignorance. "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety"--Ben Franklin

  • ||

    I myself am a Southerner, and I'd take issue with claims that Southerners are more authoritarian than others,

    Gee lets see...this is a libertarian blog....ummm am i to take it now that libertarians do not generally take for granted that authoritarian governments are inhospitable and harmful to economic growth?

    I mean we only discuss it in each and every fucking post...do i now have to make that simple step every time i link authoritarianism with bad economic policy and standards of living?

  • Chavez is a thug||

    I don't know which is funnier: the people that think supporting Hillary is compatible with a libertarian philosophy or the people who think a nutcase like Ron Paul has a chance to win.

  • Anonymo the Anonymous||

    do i now have to make that simple step every time i link authoritarianism with bad economic policy and standards of living?

    No, but there are enough complicating factors that it's an oversimplification to use empirical measures of economic or population growth as a simple proxy for level of authoritarianism.

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