New at Reason

June 9, 2007

Nick Gillespie thinks it's time to stop attacking Barry Bonds.

Comments

|6.9.07 @ 1:29PM|#

"We remain convinced that even in contests where certain substances weren't banned, it's somehow uniquely immoral to use drugs to transform ourselves or give ourselves an edge."

To use a hoary cliche, don't libertarians believe that the set of things that ought to be illegal partially overlaps, and is much smaller than, the set of things that are immoral?

I see no problem in the fact that baseball fans think certain non-illegal actions are immoral.

____

Also, there is a fuzzy but real line between a battle of skill and of tech. NASCAR is not just a battle of skills between the drivers, but between the car designers as well. That doesn't make NASCAR any less of a sport, but many of us would rather baseball remain a battle of skills between the players without also becoming a battle of skills between the medical labs.

Furthermore, steroids have adverse health effects, especially at young ages, and if you believe the incentive to toke up won't trickle down to high school, look at what happened with curveballs. That sort of result would impair people's health and make the game less fun at all levels.

Timothy|6.9.07 @ 2:01PM|#

Gaylord Perry's name is punishment enough for his crimes, but I agree with Gillespie's overall point. And I say that as a guy who loves baseball, even in seasons where the Astros are living in the basement with their mothers.

Brett|6.9.07 @ 2:01PM|#

Reason usually bugs me on this topic.

...just 34 percent "of fans said they would acknowledge Bonds as the best" slugger even after he sets the new standard for homers. This is in many ways unfair to Bonds, whose career has always been stellar; his seven Most Valuable Player awards are more than twice as many as anyone else has managed since the Baseball Writers Association of America started handing out the honor in 1931.

Bonds was a great 5 tool player before he started using, no argument. But how can you question fans not wanting to give him "best slugger" status, and label this unfair? "Slugger" implies hitting HRs or for power in general, and for Bonds these numbers took off after he started using. His HR numbers from the past 10 years are totally artificial, and it's a shame b/c he was so good to start with. He went from averaging barely 30 HRs/yr during what would typically be a player's prime, to these astronomical numbers. But b/c he was good to start with, or b/c others have also cheated, he should get a pass? We're being unfair b/c we're not ready to label him the best slugger ever despite overwhelming evidence that probably 150+ HRs came from roids? Being an asshole doesn't help him, and he didn't invent cheating, but he's a total fraud about to break baseball's biggest record and it make some of us sick.

Brett|6.9.07 @ 2:03PM|#

But not as sick as the Astros' record this year. Right there with you, Timothy.

Bee|6.9.07 @ 2:16PM|#

He's pretty much just staying on payroll to get the record at this point, which is not the classiest thing to do. And he's a gold-plated asshole. I mean, a major, major asshole.

Also, whatever game you are watching or listening to, they will cut away from YOUR game to Bonds' at-bat. ESPN, of course, is the worst perpetrator of this, although even my local coverage has done this.

So, yeah, he's not the only classless, asshole media whore out there, but he's been ruining my summer baseball just a smidge for the last few years, so I am gonna go right ahead and despise him. Roids or no roids.

Hopefully he will be gone next year.

|6.9.07 @ 2:41PM|#

Pete Rose had HOF stats prior to cheating the rules.

Why should Bonds get a pass?

Bonds has never apologized, told the truth, nor provided any help with any investigation into the use of steroids in MLB. He should be banned from the HOF and you will see a movement soon by fans to ensure this contemptible, selfish, liar, and cheater never gets in the Hall and will forever be linked with Shoeless Joe, Pete Rose, Mark McGuire as those that had the stats, but were kept out for character, lying, and cheating.

|6.9.07 @ 2:43PM|#

Bonds was doing much better than "averaging barely 30 HRs" prior to 1998. He averaged 37 from 1992-1997, which included TWO strike shortened seasons, over 40 three times, a high of 46, and 37 in only 112 games in 1994 ( projects to over 50 for a full season).

IF he wasnt a "slugger" why did he WIN the Silver SLUGGER at his position 7 out of 8 years from 1990-1997?

He even LED The League in SLUGGING % in 1990, 1992, 1993 ( and placed in the top 10 every season since 1988, except '89)?

Why would a non-slugger lead the league in OPS almost every year from 1990-1995? Why would a non-slugger lead the league in walks and INTENTIONAL walks in almost every year from 1990-1997?

He had MORE Intentional walks in 1992 and 1993 than he did in 2000 and 2001. He was a feared Slugger, the most feared hitter in baseball.

From 1990-1997 he was in the NL top 5 for HRs every year.

As an aside, I would add his increase in power production between the mids 80s and early 90s was pretty consistent with all of baseball. As a fan growing up in the 80s, I remember when 30 HRs WAS a huge slugging number and a .280/20/80 ish stat line merited All-Star selection and Silver Slugger consideration at most positions. So even when he was hitting "only" 20-30, he was still among the most feared hitters in the league.

We know that ONLY the years after 1998 are even "suspect." Though for some reason, I thought it was 1999 ( AFTER McGwire and Sosa got so much attention). At the time, Barry Bonds was easily the #1 total player in baseball. Perhaps he just got tired of people swooning over the OBVIOUS ( and the same sportswriters who now speak out against roids the most were the same geeks practially felating Mark and Sammy at the time) Juice Heads Mark and Sammy.. And I might add that McGwire was a 1 dimensional player- perhaps Dave Kingman on steroids. Perhaps Bonds made the assumption, that since baseball and Bud Selig were celebrating guys that EVERYONE KNEW ( or at least suspected if they had half a brain) were "performance enhancing"- they wouldn't mind if he did. Maybe he didnt know it was only Ok for jolly white guys with steroid bloat and the type of black guys Gary Sheffield does not consider black.

It should be obvious to ayone with a clue tha bonds was not only a bonafide slugger, but the #1 overall hitter ( and I would argue PLAYER when you factor in his Power/Speed numbers, Runs, Steals, 8 Gold Gloves,etc). Those who dont at least entertain that idea are either revisionists or completely ignored Bonds until after the controversy.

|6.9.07 @ 2:52PM|#

Why does it not surprise me that all the people who call Bonds an asshole appear to be even worse assholes?

Why would anyone who reads reason criticize someone for not cooperating with a federal steroids investigation? If you would coopoerate with such a thing, you probably deserve to die a long painful death.

The same goes with criticizing someone who is selfish, an individual, makes a lot of money,etc?

Where do these people come from?

Should I say congratulations to reason for reaching a broad audience of idiots?

|6.9.07 @ 3:51PM|#

"We remain convinced that even in contests where certain substances weren't banned, it's somehow uniquely immoral to use drugs to transform ourselves or give ourselves an edge."

I appreciate the suggestion that our morality shouldn't influence the way we count. ...but the statistics are there for comparison purposes, and the general sense that Bonds' numbers don't represent the same level of talent and achievement as players from other decades with the same numbers is dead on.

If he'd been corking his bat for years, I'd also argue that his stats don't represent the same level of talent and achievement as somebody with the same number of home runs from decades ago. ...and that opinion wouldn't change if you told me that lots of players since 1998 have been using corked bats.

|6.9.07 @ 4:02PM|#

I'm not saying he should go to jail. I'm not saying the government should step in and require more rigorous testing. I'm not saying the commissioner should push him out before he hits the big number, and I'm not saying they should put an asterisk by his name.

I'm saying that the fanfare surrounding his achievement will likely be muted, compared to what it might have been, that no one will point to Bonds as the kind of guy they want their little leaguer to grow up and be, that there probably won't be any candy bars named after him, that he probably won't show up on a box of Wheaties and that this is all as it should be.

|6.9.07 @ 4:03PM|#

OK, so Bonds is an asshole - so what? Seems to me the press has a bug up their ass for the guy because he has no interest in playing the game with them (this is nothing new - re: Roger Maris).

I say everybody lighten the hell up; it's only baseball...

|6.9.07 @ 4:15PM|#

"I say everybody lighten the hell up; it's only baseball..."

Only baseball? ONLY baseball?!

What does that mean?

|6.9.07 @ 4:26PM|#

Even if Bonds breaks the HR record, and even if all his HR are legit (not steroid-aided), I would still have a pretty hard time calling him the best all-time slugger. If you consider the eras they played in and the overall slugging stats of those eras, I don't see how you could consider Bonds better than Babe Ruth. Ruth has slightly fewer HR in considerably fewer AB. He has a higher career slugging % and career OPS, and a significantly higher career OPS+, which measures his output compared to the average for his time.

And when you consider the fact that Ruth went from being one of the best pitchers in the game from around 1915-1919 (career 94 wins, .671 winning %, 2.28 ERA) to being the best slugger in the game for the 10+ years after that, he also gets my vote for best overall player. As amazing as Bonds' numbers have been, when you put them in some reasonable historical context he's got nothing on Ruth.

Oh, and Bonds is also an asshole.

Brett|6.9.07 @ 4:57PM|#

Pick your start/end years and I'm not arguing the numbers. Like I said, he was one of the best before the drugs. It's the jump to 73 in his mid-30s, with the doubling in head circumference at the same time, that is more of the issue here. I consider that numbers taking off, and completely artificial. I guess I don't like seeing legendary records broken by asshole frauds. Doesn't seem to bother you, so enjoy your summer.

Why does it not surprise me that all the people who call Bonds an asshole appear to be even worse assholes?

The way he treats women and other adults, uses his kids...this guy is an asshole of staggering proportions. But us pointing out that makes us more so. Brilliant.

GILMORE|6.9.07 @ 5:11PM|#

Jon C Jackson 3 | June 9, 2007, 2:52pm | #
Why does it not surprise me that all the people who call Bonds an asshole appear to be even worse assholes?

They're baseball fans

Baseball fans are anal

You can take all the super-pills in the world, and still never hit the ball. They sometimes make steriods sound like, "Instant Baseball Player: Just add human"

Bee|6.9.07 @ 5:15PM|#

Jim Walsh, you are absolutely correct. ESPN, Fox, XM, SI, etc. are also assholes.

And what's especially irksome is that they can point to their endless coverage of Bonds as "evidence" that nooooooo, they do not exhibit East Coast Bias. Perish the thought!

Bee|6.9.07 @ 5:25PM|#

Oh, and yes, I am an asshole too, John C Fanboy.

And wow! Sounds like you might be one, too! That, and our love of baseball, gives us a lot in common. Oh, and the libertarian thing, sort of.

BTS|6.9.07 @ 6:04PM|#

Gilmore...the way I see steriods would be "Instant power hitter, just add guy who hits for a decent average," which Bonds certainly seems to confirm.

Tom Wilson|6.9.07 @ 6:58PM|#

The Asterisk Party
Our Creed

We make no attempt to single out Barry Bonds. Barry just happens to be carrying the steroid banner presently. McGwire, Sosa, Fehr, Selig etc... all of them, in our opinion are guilty of drinking from the steroid trough.

We protest the "steroid era" and like good custodians we do not accept the "everybody did it" excuse... the integrity of the game is at stake.

Future baseball fans will certainly look back on this time... the steroid era... and they will wonder why no one took a stand and called foul.

So this year, we stand up for the past, to show the future, that the now matters. And we will make our stand... in the stands... at the ballpark... for all to see. We knew what was going on and we did not stand by and ignore it.

Our little piece of foam does not attempt to change the record book or right a wrong. That would certainly be beyond our ability and would only add to an already convoluted tangle of words and facts. This little foam asterisk simply allows the fans to demonstrate, in a peaceful simple way, that we were not blind. We were not fooled. And we did not stand by and look the other way while the integrity of the game was ground into the dirt.

The Asterisk Party - Get on Board
http://www.FansLoveBaseball.com

|6.9.07 @ 7:45PM|#

I can't get behind the asterisk thing. How many pitchers were juicing? If Bonds gets the record, he gets the record, and that will be the record. Fans can make of it what they will.

I personally don't care who does and doesn't use steroids in sports, and Bonds is fun to watch. But I certainly understand why he gives many people the creeps. It's thanks to the unique combination of his ass-holery, his freakish change in body type and melon size, the money he makes, and the media swarm.

And to argue that none of this has anything to do with race is a bit disingenuous.

|6.9.07 @ 8:24PM|#

Joeymeyer: Mark McGwire got what, 23% of the HOF votes this year? If he hadn't juiced, or if people weren't hating on him for juicing, he'd have gotten 80+% ad rightly. Race may have something to do with the Bonds hate, but steroids has more. If McGwire had 740 homers and was still playing, he'd be getting as bad treatment as Bonds is.

|6.9.07 @ 10:37PM|#

I want to give this conversation some perspective by pointing out that the most important issue in baseball today _by far_ is the fact that my beloved Cardinals kind of suck this year. Through a combination of offseason inactivity, injuries, and sub-par performance by several players, the Cards are seven games under .500 and in third place in the worst division in baseball (behind the Cubs, for God's sake!).

One school of thought claims that you can't complain about your team (player performance, management, front office - the whole deal) for at least three years following a World Series win. But the holes were there last year; we just got healthy and hot at the right time in October. The problems weren't addressed in the offseason, our best pitcher had surgery after pitching one game, our best hitter (and the best player in baseball) had the worst slump of his career in April and early May, and here we are.

Why isn't this being discussed by the mainstream media and the east coast/west coast gatekeeper elites? WHY, DAMMIT, WHY?!?!?

|6.9.07 @ 10:38PM|#

Sparky: Because the Yankees are sucking too.

|6.9.07 @ 10:47PM|#

jb,

Yeah, that's been pretty cool. But now they've won 5 in a row and 8 of 10, and they're up to second place in their division (admittedly the second worst one in baseball). I hope they miss out on the wild card by a game because A-Rod strikes out with the bases loaded and NY down three in the ninth inning of the last game of the season. No bitterness here though.

The whole fiasco that is the Cubs has been pretty entertaining to. With that talent and that payroll, they should absolutely own the NL Central. But they're still the Cubs, and so they're six games under .500.

But the Cards are seven games under!! Where's the outrage?!?!?

|6.9.07 @ 10:53PM|#

Cycling has been infested with drugs since the advent of the sport. The motivation to take drugs is high given the demographics of the racers in Europe especially and the money to be made. But the drugs used have long-term negative health effects and the earlier you start the worse the outcome. Kids emulate the pros and will therefore emulate the drug use. And the key rational is always "everyone else is using it and I can't afford to be at a disadvantage". It's a vicious cycle. So even if it's not illegal, and it often is, it isn't moral. We call it cheating, and it is, because of these negative effects. Why should one person be forced to risk their health in order to compete with someone who doesn't hold the same health concerns? We can, and we must,draw lines that generally work well. Like the 50% hematocrit rule in cycling today. EPO is not okay but hypobaric tents are sort of okay and altitude training is for sure okay. HGH is not okay but B12 vitamins are. Blood doping is not okay but intravenous feeding at night between stages of the Tour de France are. Not all quite fair but we have to draw lines. And they're not quite arbitrary either. As a former pro racer I just have no interest in having my kids become professional bike racers. The pressure to take drugs to excel are too great.

The Wine Commonsewer|6.10.07 @ 12:59AM|#

I'm still pissed that they gave Maris the Bambino's record when he had SIX extra games to do it in. But that's just 'cuz Maris is black. If he was Anglo.....

And speaking of cheating, how about those three foot high outfield walls that Yankee Stadium had for years?

The Wine Commonsewer|6.10.07 @ 1:51AM|#

Being an asshole doesn't help him, and he didn't invent cheating, but he's a total fraud about to break baseball's biggest record and it make some of us sick.>/i>

Bingo.

The Wine Commonsewer|6.10.07 @ 1:52AM|#

It's called PREVIEW!

|6.10.07 @ 2:04AM|#

Howcome it isn't considered cheating for Tony Gwynn to videotape each at-bat and view it in order to adjust for the next one??? Joe DiMaggio didn't have that luxury

|6.10.07 @ 3:13AM|#

Bonds is undeniably a fantastic ball player. Even at this late age he's still putting up mind-boggling numbers.

In spite of that (or perhaps because of it), he is without a doubt the biggest asshole I've ever seen in a major league baseball uniform -- made worse by the fact that whenever I've seen him insult or shove a teammate in the dugout over (as far as I can tell) nothing, the broadcasters never say anything about it ( i.e.: "see no evil, speak no evil."). Plus whenever he chokes in the playoffs (which is always) his first and immediate response is "it's not my fault!" (i.e.: it's his teams' fault).

My point being: If and when he breaks Aaron's record he's earned it, but I'll always hate his guts. He's unbelievably talented, and unbelievably pathetic.

(Disclaimer: I'm a lifelong Hank Aaron fan)

Bee|6.10.07 @ 3:38AM|#

It's the morning-after hangover, Sparky. Teams often suck the year after taking it all. It is painful to watch whenever it happens. The Tigers aren't doing any too well, either, if that is any consolation.

I just got home from the Ducks Stanley Cup rally (!!WOO HOO!!) and fear their collapse next year, for the same reason.

|6.10.07 @ 5:49AM|#

Roger Maris was white, TWC.

Brian,
Because however much you study, when you get into the batter's box it's just you, your muscles, and your steroids vs the pitcher. If Gwynn had a little targeting computer in his batting helmet, I'd cry foul, but he didn't.

Also, it's not clear that Gwynn's methods are more effective than DiMaggio's. Do you think DiMaggio didn't study pitchers and practice on the side? How do we know that DiMaggio would have been better with access to video, or that Gwynn would be worse if he had to rely on analog forms of study?

On the other hand, more muscles-->hit the ball farther, if you have time to get used to the muscle mass. So steroids give an undeniable advantage.

(Since I'm strongly anti-Bonds, let me add the disclaimer that the whole thing is none of the government's business, and the hearings on the subject are incredibly stupid).

|6.10.07 @ 8:00AM|#

Bonds was doing much better than "averaging barely 30 HRs" prior to 1998. He averaged 37 from 1992-1997, which included TWO strike shortened seasons, over 40 three times, a high of 46, and 37 in only 112 games in 1994 ( projects to over 50 for a full season).

Reminded me of this for some reason.

Not that I don't like baseball, but as a Braves fan I just sit back and sip my beer.

Fluffy|6.10.07 @ 8:46AM|#

Come on, people. To put this in terms that libertarians might understand, the problem with Bonds' performance is that it's a form of rent-seeking.

There was no anti-steroids policy in baseball, true. But the law was anti-steroids. That means that competitors who obeyed the laws of the United States weren't on steroids.

Bonds essentially gained a competitive advantage based on the fact that at least some other players [mainly pitchers] were obeying the law while he wasn't. Had every pitcher been able to legally juice, and had Bonds been facing the equivalent of Roger Clemens every night, then we'd have a clear picture of how Bonds would have done in a fair competition.

If the steroids law were changed tomorrow and everyone could choose to use them or not, I would then not blame players who juiced. But as long as the law is the way it is, if you're juicing and playing you're a cheater and a rent-seeker, as far as I am concerned.

|6.10.07 @ 9:21AM|#

Jim Bob:

Scary how much the sports geek in that Onion article looks like The Schwab, no?

|6.10.07 @ 10:47AM|#

Just curious, how many of you jealous liberals ever met Mr. Bonds?

|6.10.07 @ 11:46AM|#

"...you jealous liberals..."

Huh???

Eric Blair|6.10.07 @ 1:21PM|#

What does reason magazine think it is doing by taking money from an utterly psychotic woman for running the "world-body" ads?

On her web site, the woman says the baby pictured in the Earth globe was Uncle Fester in its last life, and that her cat Logan sent "computer codes" to Dick Cheney that eliminated "criminal military installations world wide".

On her White Diamond Enterprises site,
http://white-diamond.com/hw.html
the same woman, who is being taken advantage of by all the people working for her, says she has spent years training the world's governments in preparation of advanced telepathic communications world wide. And she offers her flaming telepathic capabilities to communicate with cars, computers and office equipment.

Seriously, Reason.com should not be taking advantage of this sick woman.

The Wine Commonsewer|6.10.07 @ 1:27PM|#

JB, Of course Roger Maris was white. That was little dig at everyone that's thrown in the race card in this Bonds thrashing thread.

|6.10.07 @ 2:03PM|#

Screw HIS ASSHOLINESS Bonds,Babe Ruth had more talent in his pinky than Bonds has in his whole steroided body!!

|6.10.07 @ 2:08PM|#

STOP ACCUSING EVERY WHITE PERSON WHO DOESN'T LIKE WHAT A BLACK PERSON IS DOING AS BEING A RACIST! I am not a racist! I've been in baseball all my life, though never professionally. I am a coach now, and I've been teaching children how to play for over ten years now. One of the biggest lessons I teach is NOT TO CHEAT! McGuire, Bond, Giambi, Palmeriro ARE CHEATERS! Just like cutting a ball or corking your bat, using steriods is CHEATING. Bond's stats should be eliminated from the record books during the time he cheated! Just like Mcguire, Giambi, Palmeriro and anyone else caught cheating.

The Tour de France does it, football does it, why not baseball????

And for the record: I'M A WHITE MAN, AND I THINK A BLACK MAN SHOULD BE HELD TO THE SAME STANDARD AS ANY WHITE MAN IN HIS SPORT!

I think asking that rules apply evenly to all races makes be a RACIST. Frankly, IMO, expect the opposite does!

ed|6.10.07 @ 2:14PM|#

Genuine baseball fans--those who know the history and make commonsense adjustments along the way regarding personal achievements--are not concerned. History will place Mr. Bonds where he belongs. Let it go for a decade or so after he retires...then judge him accordingly.

|6.10.07 @ 2:25PM|#

Speaking of the Onion, this talk about so many players juicing reminds me of this Onion article. As a Reds fan, I'm sure whether to laugh or cry at it.

Baseball commissioner Bud Selig, responding to overwhelming demand, has confirmed that an asterisk will be placed next to Griffey's name in the record books in order to indicate that, in a perfect world where dignity is always rewarded, cheaters never triumph, and people always get what they really deserve, Griffey would have hit one more home run than Barry Bonds' career total.

|6.10.07 @ 2:40PM|#

Well said Mr Burg,Well said!!Anytime a black person does'nt like what is being said ..they invoke the race card!The two maximonious dipshits sharpton and jackassoooon have taught them well!

|6.10.07 @ 2:55PM|#

"Anytime a black person does'nt like what is being said ..they invoke the race card!"

Yeah, every black person does this every time! They're always stereotyping the white man! I'm deeply outraged in a completely sincere and un-ironic way!


"You can't judge people in places you've never been; that's what people in Russia do!" - Bart Simpson

|6.10.07 @ 3:02PM|#

Kevin:

Good call.

Chris:

Like many good Onion articles, perhaps both.

|6.10.07 @ 7:22PM|#

"Baseball commissioner Bud Selig, responding to overwhelming demand, has confirmed that an asterisk will be placed next to Griffey's name in the record books in order to indicate that, in a perfect world where dignity is always rewarded, cheaters never triumph, outfielders don't suffer hamstring injuries, foot injuries, and freak wrist injuries from playing with their children every year for the better part of a decade, and people always get what they really deserve, Griffey would have hit one more home run than Barry Bonds' career total."

Maybe if Griffey were using steroids his legs would be healthier.

|6.10.07 @ 7:31PM|#

"Maybe if Griffey were using steroids his legs would be healthier."

And his testicles smaller, his head bigger, his kids fewer, and his attitude surlier...

Guy Montag|6.10.07 @ 9:15PM|#

OT: Dave Weigel alert. Spotted on the National Mall recording the "kill all of the Jews" rally and the "we love Israel" rally.

Hope he gets a good story out of it!

|6.10.07 @ 9:42PM|#

"Dave Weigel alert. Spotted on the National Mall..."

You should have trapped him and radio-tagged him so we'd always know where he is. Or at the very least slipped a bell around his neck.

|6.10.07 @ 11:06PM|#

"How come it isn't considered cheating for Tony Gwynn to videotape each at-bat and view it in order to adjust for the next one??? Joe DiMaggio didn't have that luxury."

That's because career Padres are inherently superior to people who've played for the Giants. ...Padres fans are superior to Giants fans too, by the way.

...Oh, and unless I'm mistaken, videotaping at bats wasn't against the rules.

|6.10.07 @ 11:18PM|#

Seriously, if you have to compare that monster of yours to somebody, you should try someone a little less likable. Are there any retired superstars out there more well liked than Tony Gwynn?

Cal Ripken, Jr., probably. Maybe Yogi Berra?

Tony Gwynn's like the freakin' poster boy for likable superstars. If you want people to think of Bonds as less of a monster, you really don't want Gwynn fresh in their minds.

|6.10.07 @ 11:24PM|#

I don't care about baseball, not a fan. However it IS a high profile sport. My boys are and will be participating in sports (very athletic) and my thought is this: I can teach them their whole life it's wrong and bad. But if they make it up there, they will do it. They will feel they have to. If they aren't competing at the same level as Bonds, Magwire, etc then they know they won't be getting signed. When one player gets away with it, they all will give in, one by one. They have to or they can't compete at the same level and they don't get signed. That is my main concern, I don't want my boys doped up so you fools can stand around and talk about how stupid they are for doing the typical crap these dopers do. Like be assholes.

So, I don't like baseball, but I care. And there is seriously something wrong with people when they put batting averages over integrity.

|6.11.07 @ 3:29AM|#

I seem to recall reading in Liberty magazine many years ago that Hank Aaron kept a homemade drink in his locker that was laced with amphetamine, at the time a legal drug.

Point is, all atheletes look for edges which are also used by their competition. The edges are just that an edge, a boost to all ready present talent.

I don't get too worked up about atheletes using performance enhancing drugs. What does seem ironic to me is that pilots flying raids into Afganistan to fight opium farmers are given amphetamine by our military to help them stay awake. Actually giving them speed is fine, it's the war on opium farmers that is insane.

|6.11.07 @ 9:10AM|#

I think a distinction should be made between crapping on Bond's because he "used drugs" or "sought an edge" (so what) and being less impressed by gains that must be attributed in large part to his pharmacist rather than his skills. And for those who think the latter should dominate the game, the fact that Barry has the records will stink.

|6.11.07 @ 9:57AM|#

I care less about the steroids and more about Hank Aaron. Hope he assaults Bonds with a baseball bat before his record falls to the jackass.

Keith|6.11.07 @ 10:01AM|#

Why aren't cortisone shots performance enhancing drugs?

|6.11.07 @ 11:20AM|#

There will always be an asterisk behind Bonds records. Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth didn't have the advantage of steroids.

|6.11.07 @ 2:14PM|#

The difference between drug cheating and other forms of cheating is that it raises the bar for competitive performance that induces others to juice themselves when they otherwise would not, with the attendant risks to their health. Players who cheat this way lack integrity the way all cheaters do, but also bear the responsibility for spreading the use of drugs throughout sports.

|6.12.07 @ 12:03AM|#

Barry Bonds is a grown man playing a boy's game for his life's work, which is as silly as his silly record. Just change the game to marbles and you can see the point.

That fans sit in the stands watching games, sit in on their couches watching games on TV, all the while thinking they are themselves involved in athletic sports is even sillier.

That the many fans make the few players all millionaires isn't silly, it is pathetic for the one and lucky for the other.

At least Bonds isn't a golfer.

|6.17.07 @ 10:05PM|#

Gillespie also believes that Monica giving Bill blow jobs wasn't sex...

With editors in chief like Gillespie we can get this placed dumbed down even without an Amnesty bill.