Reason Magazine
- reason.com
- reason.tv
- reason.org
- Donate
- Site Search:
Reason on Facebook
Reason on Twitter
Reason on YouTube
Reason RSSGet Reason E-mail Updates!
Manage your Reason e-mail list subscriptionsadvertisements
New at Reason
Steve Chapman implores Americans to stop building up their kids' self-esteem.
|5.21.07 @ 8:01AM|#
It's too early for someone as old as I am to have a funny comment, but I did want to say thanks for this. I've noticed that my sons' friends (they're 5 and 9, so a little young for your article, but still) are much nicer and study much more advanced things in school than I did at the same ages. Perversely, this makes me proud of them.
|5.21.07 @ 8:01AM|#
Steve Chapman implores Americans to stop building up their
kids' self-esteem
Did the writer of this line even read the article?
|5.21.07 @ 8:04AM|#
At least they aren't stinking up the joint by refusing to bathe, wasting time and space by having "be-ins", self-indulgently voting themselves fiscally irresponsible retirement plans from the public coffers, and otherwise making a mockery of good sartorial taste like some other generations I could mention.
M|5.21.07 @ 8:04AM|#
My irony meter must be off. Mr. Chapman writes approvingly of
flattering children because flattered children pratice fewer vices
(which I thought the consensus here holds not to be vices, but
anyway) than their forbears. Then he labels his essay "Steve
Chapman implores Americans to stop building up their kids'
self-esteem." Obvious question: Why do you hate America, Steve
Chapman?
Well, I'm with Albert Ellis on this one. Eschew self-esteem, in
yourself and in those you care about, because the problem with
aiming for high self-esteem is that something is bound to come
along soon to topple it, and then you'll despair again. Aim instead
for Unconditional Self-Acceptance (easy acronym), independent of
who votes for your wonderfulness or terribleness. Ellis even tells
you how to acquire this unconditional self-acceptance, which does
not imply acceptance of everything you do, by employing rational
disputation of such irrational beliefs as "Everyone must approve of
me/of what I do."
A vain personality is a manipulable personality.
edna|5.21.07 @ 8:38AM|#
Did the writer of this line even read the
article?
clearly not- the article concluded exactly the opposite.
we had a bit of a row with our kid's school about their self-esteem
programs. they maintain that kids won't achieve unless they have
self-esteem. we maintain that kids won't have self-esteem until
they achieve something. but what the hell do we know, we're
baby-boomers.
Untermensch|5.21.07 @ 8:43AM|#
Aim instead for Unconditional Self-Acceptance (easy acronym), independent of who votes for your wonderfulness or terribleness.
How is that different from self-esteem? What happens with USA when
you're a little bastard and deserve to feel some guilt for being
one? I'm not clear from your post, but it seems that all it does is
remove the notion of a social component in favor of you loving
yourself no matter whether anyone else does. Perhaps you could
clarify what this is, because USA sounds like it's cut from the
same cloth...
FWWI, I'd much rather have kids with self respect based on doing
something worth respect for than kids who (a) always crave approval
because their poopie don't stinkie, or (b) think they're pretty
damn special regardless of what others think.
Sandy|5.21.07 @ 8:45AM|#
Back in the 1960s and '70s, it was universal wisdom that the
kids of that era suffered from too much coddling.
And look how free of narcissism they turned out to be!
Oh, wait.
Edward|5.21.07 @ 9:16AM|#
An interesting piece of research recently found that kids who were praised for working hard to achieve a good result on a task were eager to try more difficult tasks. But kids who were told they must be very smart to have achived a good result were more likely to request tasks of the same difficulty. Evidently, constantly telling kids they're smart accords them a status that they're reluctant to risk.
|5.21.07 @ 9:24AM|#
The only problem with having all these well-adjusted,
well-behaved kids now is that it's made rock music suck.
Or made it die, really...
stephen the goldberger|5.21.07 @ 9:31AM|#
the article has a great premise, but doesn't go far enough in its analysis. All it needs is one line making clear how selfish and narcissistic the idea of "these kids are so busy demanding ego gratification instead of serving me, their father, or me, their boss" to point out the true hypocracy of the boomers talking about gen y narcissism.
M|5.21.07 @ 9:35AM|#
Untermensch, your handle shows you've considered the topic
;-)
The difference between esteem and acceptance is valuation. If I
believe that one or more of my attributes attests to my essential
worth, as the Peanuts character Frieda preciously believes
of her "naturally curly hair," I will feel miserable if I lose that
attribute; I will feel worthless. That constitutes the tragic
instability of narcissism: manically scanning the environment to
acquire bolsterings of the proposition that I am not worthless, to
establish my right to exist. The same goes for an attribute I would
prefer not to have: If I believe it makes me a Bad Person
to be untalented at music or debate, or ugly, or whatever, I am
committing a category-confusion. How well I do something or how
good the quality of a possession does not, in fact, constitite my
essential worth, which is actually inestimable. Ellis observed,
cogently I believe, that human beings tend compulsively,
gratuitously, incessantly, and dysfunctionally to "rate"
themselves, their neighbors, and the immediate condtions of their
existence. Rating a performance is useful; such rating can inform
subsequent actions. But transferring that rating to assess how much
I am worth (= estimable) is self-defeating. It attributes the value
of a possession to the value of its possessor.
I follow your proposal that some of us little bastards and would do
well to reform. Ellis points out that (questionable parentage
aside), strictly speaking it is inaccurate to label someone, say,
"a bastard," because that implies that a bastard is all he is,
whereas we know, in our calmer moments, that people are extremely
multifaceted, such that the guy who cuts you off on the freeway and
whom you therefore call a bastard is exhibiting poor driving that
may co-exist with being kind to his mother, solicitous to stray
dogs, maybe even courteous or helpful to other motorists on a
better day. We tend erroneously to globalize our judgments. Our
self-esteem, be it high or low, is an instance of that. Acceptance
is value-neutral, and paradoxically conduces more to the reform you
(and we all) seek from that improperly so-called little bastard
than does low self-esteem. Little Bastard will benefit us all by
learning to regret his malfeasances, and he will find
reform accessible to the extent that he distinguishes how he
behaves from who he is. Only with that distinction will he feel he
can afford to stop doing what he's doing without ceasing to be
someone.
Ellis, writing for the masses, uses a lot of cuss-words to explain
himself, which I find distracting, and he tosses in some dogmatic
mechanistic-materialism I could do without, but on the whole he's
very, very sane. A G-rated version of his approach to mental health
is hier.
Sorry to go on like that; sanity is a favorite subject.
I think your FWIW is W a lot.
|5.21.07 @ 9:55AM|#
The only problem with having all these well-adjusted,
well-behaved kids now is that it's made rock music suck.
Stop listening to the radio then. Your Maroon 5 problem solved.
Listen to this
instead.
|5.21.07 @ 9:57AM|#
"The kids these days are spoiled, rude, and ignorant." - Oog, speaking to Aagh. ca 31,287 B.C.E.
|5.21.07 @ 9:58AM|#
Guess what, no matter how much parents foul up child rearing,
most kids turn out to be responsible, productive members of
society. Old farts (I must me insane) have talked trash about "kids
today" forever.
Also, to think that young people drink the self esteem kool-aide is
delusional. In another 10-years, we will know if gen-Y is worthless
or not. My guess is that they will be much more libertarian than
their parents. I have also noticed that in addition to a lower rate
of substance use (chemical dependancy, which is a sure sign of low
ego [Randian self esteem] is a vice, you moron), younger people are
much less racsist, sexist and homophobic than the so-called
enlightened boomer generation.
The complaints about young people is jealousy of the advil
addicts.
|5.21.07 @ 9:59AM|#
Well, I'm with Albert Ellis on this one. Eschew self-esteem,
in yourself and in those you care about, because the problem with
aiming for high self-esteem is that something is bound to come
along soon to topple it, and then you'll despair again.
I think we would be better off, in a "put your baby in a skinner
box", if the kids where like this growing up. As prefectionists,
the only time they would be happy with themselves is for a short
moment when they breifly are able to breifly achive
greatness.
The only problem with having all these well-adjusted,
well-behaved kids now is that it's made rock music suck.
Or made it die, really...
I was going to say "what about [band name]?" but I spent 30 minuets
trying to think of something to fill in band name and had
nothing.
|5.21.07 @ 10:00AM|#
Tom T.
You seem to be somewhat unaware of all the newer bands out there
that completely fucking rock. A Perfect Circle and 30 Seconds to
Mars comes to mind, as do 10 Years, Shinedown, Velvet Revolver,
System of a Down... as well as somewhat older bands who still make
great music: Tool, Red Hot Chili Peppers etc.
You must also account for the increasing fusion of rock and hip-hop
that constitutes a rebirth for rock, not a death. Listen to "As
Cruel as School Children" by Gym Class Heroes and tell me rock is
dead.
M,
Awesome post, but who the hell is Ellis? Is he one of those people
with only one name like Madonna or Suharto?
|5.21.07 @ 10:03AM|#
Tom T.
Oh, I forgot Avenged Sevenfold. Bad.Ass.
Jonathan Hohensee,
We are going to fight.
|5.21.07 @ 10:09AM|#
Untermensch said what I was going to say, but I'll just add that
it IS important to boost a child's self-esteem whenever possible.
It's just that you have to compliment them when they actually
accomplish something which can be hard to do sometimes.
My kid has done real well in Tae Kwon Do thankfully as it gives me
lots of opportunities to dole out pats on the back. It's been money
well spent (and it has been a lot of money).
|5.21.07 @ 10:14AM|#
Andy,
Of all those bands, only TOOL are even listenable to my ears and
they are pretty darned old.
Heavy metal is going through a terrible screamo phase right now, it
may even be worse than the rap-rawk phase it went through a decade
ago, but I'm not worried. As long as there are bands like Mastodon
and Rammstein around, then there is still hope.
M|5.21.07 @ 10:16AM|#
andy, thank you, and you'll find Ellis's first name in paragraph
#2, word #4 hier
Compliments like "awesome" make me snarky, snarky, y'see ;-)
|5.21.07 @ 10:17AM|#
Are you fucking kidding me, MK? Do you even have a passing
familiarity with any of those bands?
I guess if Rammstein is your idea of good music you're beyond
help.
|5.21.07 @ 10:24AM|#
Sadly, I am familiar with them andy.
Rammstein isn't my idea of good music, that would encompass a lot
more than just them. They are my idea of a great rock band though,
both in terms of their music and their live show.
If that makes me beyond help, well I'm fine with that. I know the
kids like other stuff, but as an old man it is my dity to inform
them of how wrong they are. It has always been thus.
|5.21.07 @ 10:25AM|#
Trust me: I'm well aware of all the bands you listed (aware
enough, in fact, to know that most of them aren't Gen Y-ers and
thus don't qualify as mitigating evidence). And I know there's good
rock out there.
My point was more about rock culture in toto. The very
fact that defending rock in 2007 means itemizing a handful of bands
with boutique followings merely validates my point.
I wasn't making some "in MY day" old-geezer argument about music
standards. I was asserting what seems to be, from any objective
measure, a basic truism: that rock today is not as healthy as it
was during the generations that preceded it. Whether or not that's
actually a product of the whole "well-adjusted kids" thing -- well,
that was just the joking-about-the-topic-at-hand part of my
post.
|5.21.07 @ 10:33AM|#
I'm not so sure the problem is generational. It seems awfully
federalist to insist that in some tangible way the child-rearing in
Tempe, AZ is effectively the same as it is in Portland, ME to the
point where our nation's children will develop substantially
differently from their parents, but simultaneously in the same
fashion as each other
.
This article, as well as some of the commenters, use the argument
that the young generation is always looked at as spoiled
and narcissistic as some sort of evidence that there is in reality
nothing wrong. Others have commented that Boomers are jealous of
the attention Gen Y'ers give themselves as opposed to giving the
proper respect to their elders (as your mom always told you to
do).
Maybe the problem is that many people can concede "ok, so I guess
everyone is narcissistic," but then make no statement as to whether
or not this is a problem. Somehow if everyone is narcissistic and
has a warped definition of "happiness," it's all ok?
|5.21.07 @ 10:35AM|#
"younger people are much less racsist, sexist and homophobic
than the so-called enlightened boomer generation."
But please remember it was the Boomers who realized there was a
problem and tried to teach their children well."
|5.21.07 @ 10:42AM|#
Tom T.
I think your truism is off base, yet fits perfectly into the theme
of this thread because the real truism here is that older people
will always bitch about:
1. today's kids, and
2. today's music
|5.21.07 @ 10:44AM|#
Speaking as a member of gen Y (I think...im 22 is that too old?
I've never had a handle on this crap.) I'd like to say that my
peers are a bunch of shallow self absorbed pricks. I'm also pretty
sure that every generation is that way. I bet the "greats" were a
bunch of assholes too, until life handed them two heaping helpings
of perspective.
Also, on the "good rock" front i'd like toss in Queens of the Stone
Age and The Eagles of Death Metal. Simple, stripped down, badass
rock with a touch of country in the latter.
Also, if you haven't heard the stuff coming out of the Desert
Sessions, you're just plain out of the loop. Check out "I wanna
make it wit chu" or "Crawl Home" from Desert Sessions Vol. 9 to get
a taste.
|5.21.07 @ 10:50AM|#
Tom T.,
Well, generational monikers are all but meaningless in my book.
There's not much, if any, difference between a late Gen-Xer and an
early Gen-Yer. And, although Generation Y is still a bit young to
have produced a huge number of bands relative to prior generations,
given that much of "Generation Y" hasn't even graduated from high
school, we buy the bulk of modern rock music. This means, of
course, that Gen Y drives most of the demand for rock regardless of
what generation modern bands are actually from, so you can't
therefore discount Generation Y's influence in modern rock.
You do make a good point about the relative unpopularity of rock
nowadays. This is because the music industry has chosen to support
crunk and reggaeton in lieu of good music and the sheeple have
eaten it up, of course. This does not detract from the sounds of
the bands that do come out.
Popularity =/= Quality
|5.21.07 @ 10:55AM|#
Checked Out:
"But please remember it was the Boomers who realized there was a
problem and tried to teach their children well."
So what. The civil right movement pre-dates boomer influence. We
ride the wave, but did not create it. Your comment is typical of a
self-important incompoop.
Rather than pat yourself on the back for what you did not create,
be thankful that we live in a progressive society in spite of the
progressive agenda of the gray-hair farmer pipe-dream boomers.
|5.21.07 @ 11:02AM|#
Blah. I'm a generation Y guy, and I figure all the "coddling"
and "selfishness" is more than made up for with a big student loan
debt and huge chunk of my paycheck going to Social Security and
other entitlements.
We're the ones being saddled with all the over-spending and, dare I
call it, "narcissistic" entitlements older generations have voted
for themselves.
Some coddling indeed. At least it's something to add to my
overblown, twenty-something ego!
|5.21.07 @ 11:09AM|#
Gone-but-not-forgotten reason editor Julian Sanchez talked about "kids today" here and here.
|5.21.07 @ 11:30AM|#
As one who qualifies as GenX (born in 65), I would like to put
in an old man's perspective on the music.
This is a particularly vibrant period for rock-music with more
bands doing more interesting stuff than has been the case for
awhile. Every period has good bands...most of whom are
ignored.
The sheen of greatness that oldsters seem to be unable to see in
today's scene is a result of their changed perspective, not the
result of anything fundamentally different about the status of rock
music in our society.
Lame music has always outsold good music.
Nothing has changed on that front.
But today access to good music is far easier to find.
Try out
Wolf & Cub
King Brothers
The Boggs
Black Lips
The Horrors
Jesu
Menomena
Rock Plaza Central
And the list goes
on...........................................................
|5.21.07 @ 11:34AM|#
Bobbie Dooley,
You are correct, Boomers didn't begin the Movement, but we did
contribute to it. There was plenty of discrimination while I was
growing up, and I was well aware of it from a young age.
I live in a rural Southern county where I once saw at my son's
school a confederate flag pictured in a slide show under the title
'History'. Disney's Pocahontas appeared on the same slide. There's
plenty of work left to do, and your snide remarks contribute
nothing.
|5.21.07 @ 11:37AM|#
"You do make a good point about the relative unpopularity of
rock nowadays. This is because the music industry has chosen to
support crunk and reggaeton in lieu of good music"
Andy, you're on a libertarian website. The "industry" doesn't
"choose" anything. It supplies consumer demand.
I'm not just being flip: If what you define as "good music" is the
stuff that would go multiplatinum right now, there would be a bunch
of coke-lipped, hooker-loving execs "supporting" it.
Big-time.
Or, related, all the little labels that do put out that music would
be slaying the big dumb guys in the marketplace.
[Cue responses about "monopolies" and "cartels" here.]
|5.21.07 @ 11:52AM|#
"Over the last quarter-century, the juvenile arrest rate has
fallen as well. Teenage girls are far less likely today than before
to get pregnant or to have abortions."
I think is probably true because they are all so obese from all the
Hostess snacks and violent video game playing. They would like to
get knocked up and knock over a 7-11 but they are just too fat and
lazy.
Music? Most of popular music in all era's has pretty much blown.
The bands I have seen listed are nothing more than the product of
reading Spin by people trying to hold on to their "cool" now that
they are married and cranking out the next generation of annoying
sticky little runts. I'll stick with Only Crime, Riverboat
Gamblers, Hot Water Music (The Draft), Frontside Five and on and on
along with my vast collection of old man punk rock which used to be
new but now worth $$$$$ on Ebay that I'll never be able to bring
myself to sell.
Fluffy|5.21.07 @ 11:53AM|#
I read about this study when it first came out, and I think it's
based on flawed data.
The study relies on the standard narcissism psych test, which
hasn't been updated in decades and is now obsolete. It asks
participants to agree or disagree with statements like "I am an
important person," and "The world would be better if people
listened to me more," which any normal person should regard as
non-controversial. The test is normed to what people laboring under
social conditioning to self-effacement would typically say or the
way they would react, and it's just not the 1940's anymore.
|5.21.07 @ 12:04PM|#
In other news, the rate of psychopathy is up:
"behaviour. Dr. Benjamin Wolman, author of Antisocial Behavior,
believes that the new "epidemic" of psychopaths comes either from
children who live impoverished lives with poor parenting, or rich
parents with a very lax attitude in regards to discipline.
Psychopathy is either genetic, sociologically influenced, or a
combination of both. Many young psychopaths today are a product of
society, not genetics, this is why Dr. Wolman is so concerned about
the "epidemic" of psychopaths today."
http://www.geocities.com/lycium7/psychofacts.html
|5.21.07 @ 12:22PM|#
You seem to be somewhat unaware of all the newer bands out
there that completely fucking rock. A Perfect Circle and 30 Seconds
to Mars comes to mind, as do 10 Years, Shinedown, Velvet Revolver,
System of a Down... as well as somewhat older bands who still make
great music: Tool, Red Hot Chili Peppers etc.
You must also account for the increasing fusion of rock and hip-hop
that constitutes a rebirth for rock, not a death. Listen to "As
Cruel as School Children" by Gym Class Heroes and tell me rock is
dead.
I'm going to backpeddle and say that I only said bands suck now
because I didn't want to sound like an asshole listing all of the
obscure bands I like. That said, among your examples, all of them
suck except for System of a Down.
|5.21.07 @ 12:24PM|#
Checked Out:
"I live in a rural Southern county where I once saw at my son's
school a confederate flag pictured in a slide show under the title
'History'. Disney's Pocahontas appeared on the same slide."
"In other news, the rate of psychopathy is up:"
The first statement proves the second. Citation of a "geocities"
website is a red-flag for a nuttball alert. I understand that snide
comments don't advance the conversation, but neither does
incoherant ramblings of a cannibas addled mind.
Kids these days are kids. They will outlive and out produce us. The
future looks bright, no matter how badly us boomers have tried to
screw them up.
How many of the gray-haired losers hear have even raised kids to
adulthood? Probably the same number who is an actual entrepreneur.
H&R, for the theoretical libertarian idiotlog
|5.21.07 @ 1:18PM|#
Is "idiotlog" some new kind of epithet I haven't heard yet? I don't know what it means but it sounds nasty.
|5.21.07 @ 1:25PM|#
"Bye Bye Birdie," the musical that asked the question,
"What's the matter with kids these days?" debuted during the
Eisenhower administration.
Best line from that song: "Why can't they be just like we
were/Perfect in every way..."
|5.21.07 @ 1:50PM|#
i've noticed one difference between the baby-boomers narcissism
and the generation y variety. baby-boomers, on average, were better
able to deal with failure. if they failed, they faded into the
counter-culture and smoked pot or some other "anti-social"
behavior.
generation y, on average, thinks the world is ending if they fail.
we've made them think they are so special that getting a "D" in a
class signals armageddon.
baby boomers raged against the machine. the machine rules
generation y. they respect authority like baby boomers never did,
so when authority disapproves, their bruised egos can't handle it.
it's a very authoritarian (in a loose sense) generation. so, i
think there is a big difference, baby boomers (not their 1950s
parents) told themselves they were special, they are now telling
generation Y they are special...
and, i am convinced the whole spike in anti-depressant use has
something to do with this narcissism.
this is all mass generalisation, which makes for bad science...
but, if i hear one more of my students beg me to change their grade
because it will keep them from getting into grad school, which will
keep them out of the good job, which will ruin their kids chances
of getting into harvard, i just might make narcissism an action
verb.
|5.21.07 @ 3:00PM|#
and, i am convinced the whole spike in anti-depressant use
has something to do with this narcissism.
I think it has much more to do with the fact that in a
technology-rich society, it is possible to feel that perfection is
attainable, if we just tweak this or twist that or fiddle with
this.
I'm not saying this is a conscious process on the individual level,
but I do think it's inherent to a culture where technology really
has done the previously impossible and made nearly every
aspect of life better (or at least easier). In a perverse way, the
better it gets, the even-better we feel like it could be.
Or, hell, maybe the embrace of antidepressants has something to do
with needing a substitute for religion. Who knows...
|5.21.07 @ 3:02PM|#
what about those Greatest Generation dicks, who set up Social
Security for themselves, only to gut it and make sure that only
THEY will benefit from it before it goes broke?
let me also say that the "Greatest Generation" title is one they
gave themselves.
bunch of self-congratulatory wankers! you beat Hitler, sure that's
great, and thanks for that...but after that, you just came home and
turned your effin brains off, you stopped paying attention to the
government, because you were so grateful they got you thru
WWII.
IDIOTS!
The price of liberty is ETERNAL vigilance, not just military action
when it's painfully obvious and convenient! You pigs sold us ALL
out by laying down and letting our government feed your own greed
and laziness with instant gratification and mass produced crap,
while they quietly turned our country into a human
plantation.
You complain about the Baby Boomers and Gen-Y being self-absorbed,
old folks? Look in the freakin mirror! Your laziness and stupidity
*AFTER* WWII is what caused the narcissistic implosion of society
you see now!
I remember seeing an old post WWII John Wayne movie about vets
coming home and dealing with the culture shock, and one line really
stuck out at me. It was something like "You put your lives on the
line for our freedom, and now the job is done. you can come home
and NEVER THINK ABOUT HARD THINGS AGAIN!" (emphasis mine)
it should be called "the Greatest Generation of Sellouts"
Jennifer|5.21.07 @ 3:21PM|#
Jesus Christ, I'm tired of this generational-pride nonsense.
Seriously, people: if the most impressive thing you have to say
about yourself is "I was born within ten years of somebody
else who did something worthwhile," do yourself a favor and
drop dead.
Beats basking in the reflected glory of being almost the same age
as Kurt Cobain.
|5.21.07 @ 3:26PM|#
I am 24 and enjoying the fruits of the workforce. It seems to me
that in certain industries, excessive self-confidence, backed by a
strong work-ethic seems to work. Confidence/borderline arrogance
backed up gets people promoted quickly and gets them the $.
I don't think the top people where I work see anything wrong with
it since they too are fairly arrogant.
|5.21.07 @ 3:57PM|#
I'm wondering how having Spongebob as the biggest role model of the day will effect the next Kids These Days. I mean, that sponge has a work ethic of a horse and all those around him who cheat, steal, slot, or try to short cut their way through life get cosmicly punished. What a great show.
|5.21.07 @ 5:04PM|#
This is what comes of discouraging kids from smoking, drinking
and doing drugs.
Someone give these children a beer for heaven's sake!
MelissaJane|5.21.07 @ 8:07PM|#
I am so happy to read this; now I can just send people the link rather than rant about the lack of historical perspective among today's...uh...ranters myself. It is truly funny to hear that this generation is so horridly self-indulgent when my earliest memories (I was born in '65) are of my parents' generation's horror at the decadent, selfish, fatuous hippies who so outraged their sensibilities. Somehow, the world has survived the coming-of-age of those hideously long-haired drug-addled left-leaning kids...oh, wait, those were the kids who now congratulate themselves for changing the world. Maybe we'll survive this generation's growing up, too.
|5.21.07 @ 8:37PM|#
Tom T,
Do you honestly think that the music industry has nothing to do in
the manufacturing of demand? Oh wait, all transactions in our
society are chosen completely freely after tons of critical thought
and in no way are influenced by advertising or other forms of
malfeasence. Remember, corporations can do no wrong, kids!
|5.21.07 @ 8:48PM|#
>Or made it die, really...
>>I was going to say "what about [band name]?" but I spent 30
minuets trying to think of something to fill in band name and had
nothing.
Franz Ferdinand
Scissor Sisters
The Decemberists
|5.21.07 @ 9:09PM|#
No one whined for a lower age of majority. They demanded that
minors not be drafted.
During the Viet Nam war, the draft age 18 was lower than the voting
age 21. Obviously, cannon fodder couldn't be spared -- hence the
age of majority was lowered to 18. In 1969 the drafting of minors
ceased by definition.
If 18 year old "adults" are not responsible enough to purchase
alcohol; then, let's admit they are not adult enough for the
franchise either. Or, to "voluntarily" join the armed forces.
The logic of cynicism demands that the drinking age be lowered
nationwide to 18 -- why do you think that the Empire is also known
as the Military-Industrial Complex.
eye-of-horus
|5.21.07 @ 9:53PM|#
"People who came of age during the Great Depression and World
War II are known as the "Greatest Generation," but their parents
didn't call them that when they were going through puberty. "Bye
Bye Birdie," the musical that asked the question, "What's the
matter with kids these days?" debuted during the Eisenhower
administration."
That's what's known as a "non-sequitur".
|5.21.07 @ 10:51PM|#
At this late hour, I can't resist venting my unsurprised
frustration:
"In 1977, 29 percent of high-school seniors smoked cigarettes
daily. By 2006, only 12 percent did. The number of high-school
seniors who regularly use illicit drugs declined by 43 percent
during that period, while the number who regularly consume alcohol
dropped by more than a third."
So as long as they don't smoke (the HORROR), use drugs, drink or
fornicate, they are all right?? WTF??
How revealing! That's all that counts to the Gen BabyBoomers? Their
kids could be the biggest, jerks, assholes, devoid of any humanity,
that's ok. Just as long as they don't do any of the above. What's
wrong with that measuring stick, BB parents?
It's a miracle most of them DO turn out good people!
That so few of them get arrested is a miracle, given the expansion
of arrestable offenses enforced by that parent-on-demand, the
Government.
|5.22.07 @ 3:39AM|#
The WWII gen is not so bad, considering what they went
through--The Great Depression and WWII (will no real effective
treatment for PTSD). Remember that these people grew up during a
time of great ignorance--no internet, no TV, not much education.
The Boomers really suck. They went through Viet Nam, but had more
access to information. When I discuss the damage done to children
of divorce, the only people that ever say "But you have to be
happy!" are Boomers. Most Boomers were lousy parents, in my
experience. Gen X somehow survived their Boomer parents (although
the most well-adjusted are children of older parents). Gen X is a
generation of people trying to survive their parents selfishness.
(I do feel a bit sorry for Boomers that had to deal with fathers
screwed up by WWII.) Gen Y is way too authoritarian. I hope it's
just their young age, but I'm afraid of them. If Gen Y doesn't
learn to love liberty as they age, freedom will die an ugly death
when they take the reigns of power. (All of this is just one man's
opinion, of course.)
BTW, I was born in 1970, and I think there is some good music being
made these days. There does seem to be a dearth of good rock,
though. Maybe the genre is dying; nothing lasts forever.
|5.22.07 @ 10:05AM|#
Every generation has always said they don't trust the next one to run the world. They do eventually figure it out. Do my kids have it easier than I did? Yes. That is what I want for them. I also remind them that work is a good thing and make sure they have resonsibilities and remind them how to behave in public. Soem things have continually gotten better my grand parent sgeneration had little tolerance for moinorities and each generation it gets better. I believe by the time my grand children grow up we will be close to that society that judges a man by the content of his character rather than the color of his skin. If they can do that they can lay claim to the greatest generation.
Site comments/questions:
Media Inquiries and Reprint Permissions:
(310) 367-6109
Editorial & Production Offices:
3415 S. Sepulveda Blvd.
Suite 400
Los Angeles, CA 90034
(310) 391-2245