Ronald Bailey | May 18, 2007
I must have been otherwise occupied this past May Day, so I missed Comrade Fidel's interesting article in Granma that condemned the conversion of corn into ethanol to run cars. Cuba's Maximum Leader asked from his hospital bed:
What will happen when hundreds of millions of tons of corn are redirected towards the production of biofuel? And I rather not mention the amounts of wheat, millet, oats, barley, sorghum and other cereals that industrialized countries will use as a source of fuel for its engines.
Castro answered his own question in an earlier article:
More than three billion people in the world are being condemend to a premature death from hunger and thirst. It is not an exaggeration; this is rather a conservative figure. I have meditated for quite a long time on that after the meeting held by President Bush with the US automakers.
The sinister idea of turning foodstuffs into fuel was definitely established as the economic strategy of the US foreign policy....
Actually El Jefe Cubano is on to something. As I pointed out in my "Moonshine Mirage" column a year ago:
...it would take the country's entire corn crop to produce 35 billion gallons of ethanol, an amount equal to about one-fifth of the gasoline Americans currently burn each year. This would also leave no corn for food and some residues for feed. Burning food for fuel raises some interesting moral questions in world in which 800 million people are still malnourished.
Corn prices have doubled in the past 3 years and are already boosting food prices in the U.S. and tortilla prices in Mexico.
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What will happen when hundreds of millions of tons of corn
are redirected towards the production of biofuel?
Pot growers around the world will turn their hydroponic farms to
producing corn instead of dope in order to cash in on the sweet,
sweet biofuel money.
Fidel, the history of economics shows that the more demand there is
for something, the more people try to produce it. The invention of
bourbon didn't deplete world-wide corn stores because of increased
demand for drinkable maize. Neither will biofuels.
The answer, of course, is big, huge stocks of robust,
genetically modified corn!
Oops, the left doesn't like that. Never the fuck mind.
What will happen when hundreds of millions of tons of corn
are redirected towards the production of biofuel?
It will mark the end of the Wesson World.
Castro's objection couldn't POSSIBLY be based on his country's dependence on Hugo Chavez's oil money.
No, no, Fidel is a big investor in the Soylent Corporation's new product, Soylent Oil.
Abdul -- you've got your eye on the real threat posed by higher
demand for corn... the impact on bourbon!
And it's touching to see Fidel get emotional about premature
death.
Pot growers around the world will turn their hydroponic
farms to producing corn instead of dope in order to cash in on the
sweet, sweet biofuel money.
Didn't Willie, or Woody or one of those guys have some "info" that
pot was a great fuel too?
This idea might sound radical, but how about farmers produce a crop and sell it to the highest bidder. Leave price control and government regulation the hell out of it.
Pat, when Hugo, er, Hillary is in charge, she will set you straight on what teh free market is.
Corn is a pathetic basis for ethanol extraction in the first place. Real ethanol generation uses sugarcane. Was there ever much doubt that this is all just an agricultural subsidy in disguise?
On the bright side, every corn kernel used for biofuels is one
less kernel used for HFCS.
For the children.
Corn is a pathetic basis for ethanol extraction in the first
place. Real ethanol generation uses sugarcane. Was there ever much
doubt that this is all just an agricultural subsidy in
disguise?
Not a bit. Perhaps someone should point this sugarcane theory out
to Fidel and he can stop whining?
Oh, my bad, he would have to actually use some of his own resources
to trade for what his festering little island utopia needs.
"...it would take the country's entire corn crop to produce
35 billion gallons of ethanol, an amount equal to about one-fifth
of the gasoline Americans currently burn each year."
Theoretically, people in other countries might also grow corn, as
well as other crops that are even more suitable for biofuel
production. People who can't afford energy hikes may substitute
away--move closer to work, etc. Quantity demanded can
fall...blah, blah, blah.
And sure, crop prices may rise to meet demand, but cryin' about
that--isn't that a bit like cryin' for the ol' buggy whip
manufacturer?
Fluctuations in food prices are nothing new.
thoreau,
I smell the sickly sweet odor of Big Honey in all of this. Corn
will be gone--no more HFCS--but sugar will be gone, too, as it is
an even more effective source of biofuel. What sweeteners will
remain?
I say we lift the Cuban embargo and offer to buy Castro's sugarcane for biofuel in a cunning geopolitical manouver to pit Castro against Chavez
I smell the sickly sweet odor of Big Honey in all of
this.
Remember that bees are dying off everywhere.
So, the real culprit must be some lab that's building GM bees to
tolerate pollens from GM plants to provide pharmaceutical grade
honey that requires FDA approval before you can put it into your
Earl Grey.
"It will mark the end of the Wesson World."
Fantastic, MikeP, even if no one else thinks so.
"Corn prices have doubled in the past 3 years and are
already boosting food prices in the U.S. and tortilla prices in
Mexico."
Let's not make like this whole new "markets" idea is yet to be
tested against rising food prices.
Problem is that the FDA will probably demand that pharmaceutical grade honey be designated as a Schedule I food sweetener- one that has no currently accepted nutritional value in the United States.
"Fantastic, MikeP, even if no one else thinks
so."
I had no idea that "fantastic" meant "humorous equivalent of an ice
cream headache."
Problem is that the FDA will probably demand that
pharmaceutical grade honey be designated as a Schedule I food
sweetener . . .
So making hash brownies with honey will get you into double
trouble.
Energy prices are notoriously volatile; I don't know why - I'm sure someone will fill me in. I worry that tying the means of energy production, that is arable land, to the means of food production is going to make food prices equally volatile. Meh, maybe not.
Ken Shultz, you said
And sure, crop prices may rise to meet demand, but cryin' about that--isn't that a bit like cryin' for the ol' buggy whip manufacturer?
You ignore the fact that not one lousy pint of corn based
ethanol fuel would be produced if it were not for government
mandates and subisides.
Nobody would be crying for the buggy whip makers if they got
mandates and subsidies requiring each automobile driver to buy at
least 15 buggy whips a year.
That ice cream headache comes from a comment on a
Peak Oil thread some two years ago...
Peak Oil is so last week...
I predict that biodiesel will replace gasoline at $4 a gallon. In fact, as petroleum production costs rise past that price, there will be a large but painless shift in the developed and developing world to vegetable-derived transportation fuel.
But in the undeveloped world disaster awaits.... As the hungry industries demand more and more plant oil, it actually outcompetes food crops on lands in the undeveloped world. The western world, China, and India push more and more people from their farms, increasing displacement and potential famine throughout the nonindustrial nations.
In 2016 Peak Vegetable Oil arrives when a man named Morris leads a transnational rebellion against the vegetable oil interests. He organizes the vegetable oil producing nations into VOPEC and extracts huge price concessions from the industrialized world. Worldwide depression follows. Oh, and all the economic laws you ever knew anything about fail, yadda, yadda, yadda.
"Peak Vegetable Oil" is not snappy enough. I will call my theory "Collapse of the Wesson World".
Can I be on Fresh Air now, or do I have to write a book first?
I wonder when the last time the agricultural production
capacity of the world was less than the world
demand. It's not that we couldn't produce enough food for all those
starving people. It's that they can't afford to pay for the food's
production (and that we can't afford to pay for it for them). Using
corn or any other crop for ethanol doesn't change that fact.
It doesn't make motor fuel from ethanol any better, but it's
certainly a poor argument against it.
"You ignore the fact that not one lousy pint of corn based
ethanol fuel would be produced if it were not for government
mandates and subisides."
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate, but your point is well
taken.
...but if that was the point being made above, it was only in a
roundabout way. The point being made above seemed to be about the
moral implications of using biofuels and markets--not the downsides
of subsidies.
I think biofuel will end up helping to feed people in the third world, rather than starve them. Food aid and cheap US imports are one of the reasons that domestic farmers in the Third World can't compete in the market. With higher prices of imported food, and less food aid given out for free, local farmers will be able to sell to their countrymen for a profit for a change.
Castro might do better growing Palm OIl on his tropical island.
Biodiesel is better than ethanol. Cleaner and with better energy
density, and probably cheaper to make)
And when the real details are explained to consumers, they don't
want ethanol, they do want plug in hybrids.
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/editors/17605/
Brazil grows more than enough sugar that can be converted into
ethanol without infringing upon anyone's food supply.
Of course, no one wants to eliminate the huge tarriff on foreign
sugar, so yeah, corn ethanol is a subsidy in disguise.
"With higher prices of imported food, and less food aid given
out for free, local farmers will be able to sell to their
countrymen for a profit for a change."
Unless they're cashing in on the fuel demand themselves. Didn't we
just sign a deal with Brazil to buy their corn ethanol?
I predict this is a tempest in a teapot--ethanol can be made out
of a host of things--we're just using corn right now because we
have a lot of it, it's easily gathered, and the production plants
easily fit in to the present system.
Making ethanol from corn is, however, bloody inefficient. Get rid
of the tariffs and it wouldn't last long.
Biodiesel forever! (And also, if you want to support biodiesel, eat
meat!)
"
Making ethanol from corn is, however, bloody inefficient. Get rid
of the tariffs and it wouldn't last long. "
As long as Iowa is the first state in which presidential caucuses
are held, don't hold your breath. Even supposedly anti-pork John
McCain changed his mind this time around and has become a corn
ethanol pimp.
"Burning food for fuel raises some interesting moral questions
in world in which 800 million people are still malnourished."
From
Science 18 May 2007:
Vol. 316. no. 5827, pp. 996 - 997
Childhood Origins of Adult Resistance to Science
Paul Bloom and Deena Skolnick Weisberg
"When faced with this kind of asserted information, one can
occasionally evaluate its truth directly. But in some domains,
including much of science, direct evaluation is difficult or
impossible. Few of us are qualified to assess claims about the
merits of string theory, the role of mercury in the etiology of
autism, or the existence of repressed memories. So rather than
evaluating the asserted claim itself, we instead evaluate the
claim's source. If the source is deemed trustworthy, people will
believe the claim, often without really understanding it.
In an illustrative recent study, participants were asked their
opinion about a social welfare policy that was described as being
endorsed by either Democrats or Republicans. Although the
participants sincerely believed that their responses were based on
the objective merits of the policy, the major determinant of what
they thought of the policy was, in fact, whether or not their
favored political party was said to endorse it (27). Additionally,
many of the specific moral intuitions held by members of a society
appear to be the consequence, not of personal moral contemplation,
but of deference to the views of the community (28)."
Now take a step back and ask how this is relevent to RB's reporting
on science.
Does anybody know how much arable land has been taken out of food production in the U.S. in the past 50 years as agriculture has become more mechanized? Is it just a teensy bit possible that some of that land could be put back into production in response to a rapid rise in grain prices?
"Does anybody know how much arable land has been taken out
of food production in the U.S. in the past 50 years as agriculture
has become more mechanized? Is it just a teensy bit possible that
some of that land could be put back into production in response to
a rapid rise in grain prices?"
Bailey knows about that. He knows that yields could improve as
well. He knows that there are better biofuel crops than corn, and
he knows we can import biofuel crops as well. I bet he knows about
the possibility of using algae. I bet he knows about lots more
too...
I bet he knows about battery technology--I bet he knows all this
stuff better than the rest of us.
...And yet he still quotes Fidel Castro!
I think he's just makin' a point about unintended consequences.
...a point that even Castro--even Castro!--gets.
But I could be wrong.
Carbohydrate fuels is a perfect example of a second hander
industry. If there was no gov'ment incentive, no one, and I mean no
swinging dick would be making ethanol as a substitute for
gasoline.
The fact that you so-called libertarians have fallen for it is
because you are faux libertarians as you are employees and think
and reason like employees.
STFU and suck yer latte's. Nuke, natural gas crude oil, coal.
Anything elese requires a subsidy or regulation of
competition.
Corn and sugar cane and other plant material is hair farmer pipe
dream crap. Castro is old school and since his economy is on the
edge, cannot afford to buy into the latest euro-trash faux
environmental wet-dream.
James Watts,
Man, it's guys like you that make us "libertarians" seem okay to
the rest of the world. ...Don't waste that routine on us--go out
there and preach the gospel!
...Yell it in the streets! Scream it from your window! "The
Libertarians are all kooks! ...I can prove it!"
"Corn prices have doubled in the past 3 years"
We can exclude them from "core" food prices
Problem solved!
I smell the sickly sweet odor of Big Honey in all of this.
Corn will be gone--no more HFCS--but sugar will be gone, too, as it
is an even more effective source of biofuel. What sweeteners will
remain?
I suspect killer bees sticking up the plan.
Ken:
Sorry, I had no idea you fellers were so serious. I guess all them
big iders bouncing off the walls inside head give you some sort of
comfort. Turning food into fuel is such a rotten concept, even
Castro can see it. Don't let that stop you from your green weanie
wet dream because in theory, it makes such good bidness wid all dem
incentives an such.
>>> More than three billion people in the world
>>> are being condemend to a premature death from
>>> hunger and thirst.
What's the down side?
Making fuel out of foodstuffs is dumb. But I remember reading that it might be possible to make ethanol out of cellulose - agricultural waste which is indigestible to humans. At present this is extremely expensive, but by using genetically engineered bacteria it might become economically viable.
Corn is about the least efficient source for ethanol. (Except
for, perhaps, the hot air that comes out of Castro.)
Biofuels have more potent sources, biodiesel for example can be
produced from algae which can be grown at something along the lines
of twenty times the density of the crops they're looking at.
Ethanol can also be produced by other crops, many of which aren't
used as food crops. Finding legumous sources of ethanol, in
particular, would be most beneficial to poorer nations because
their nitrogen fixing would reduce fertilizer needs and make them
more tolerant of poorer soils.
Now if only the farm lobby would stop insisting that we use the
worst source simply because we happen to produce it... Sure,
that'll happen. I'm predicting an increase in farm subsidies to
offset the cost hikes for Corn instead.
A hopefully very potent source for BioDiesel (which incidentally
needs something like Ethanol to make).
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/05/researchers_dev.html#more
Just need lots of Pine Plantations, I think we have those.
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