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Friday Fun Link: Hey, Geeks!
It's been almost nine hours since a Time Inc publication put out a list, and Entertainment Weekly is rushing in to fill the gap. Here's the magazine's list of the Top 25 Sci-Fi - movies and TV - of the last 25 years. Why 25? Well, 1) It's been that many years since the debut of E.T., Blade Runner, and Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan and 2) the magazine needs to justify yet more coverage of Heroes. But Battlestar Galactica comes in for the most praise:
The damned thing won a Peabody award for its second season. It's proving what sci-fi fans have known for decades: Science fiction is as legitimate a vehicle for human drama as any other genre.
It'd be a far more interesting list if EW included books, but if you want that you can check out Reason interviews with Vernor Vinge, Bruce Sterling, and Neal Stephenson. If you just want movies, see Gregory Benford's review of The Matrix Reloaded and Julian Sanchez's review of Serenity .
Plea to URKOBOLD!|5.4.07 @ 6:08PM|#
oh great URKOBOLD! Please sear the souls of the creators of that
list.
Any list that involves even the most remotely positive casting of
"The Matrix" deserves eternal, searing pain and relentless courses
in womyn's studies.
/trods off
|5.4.07 @ 6:11PM|#
Okay,
Where the hell is SG-1/Atlantis, TRON, and The 4400?
All infinetly better that Galaxy Quest and Eternal Sunshine of the
Spotless Mind.
Sandy|5.4.07 @ 6:13PM|#
Babylon 5? Hello...do you think story-arcs started with
Buffy?
It's depressing how few good science fiction movies there are. Most
of them have been complete crap. Not that TV hasn't had its share
of awful, but...
And where is Alien Nation?
|5.4.07 @ 6:14PM|#
Quantum Leap? WTF? Oh well....they got Firefly and BSG right at
least.
Curiously missing;
Buffy
Babylon 5
Farscape
Dead Like Me
Spiderman
Army of Darkness
Doctor Who at 24, but Lost at 10? LOST? I like the show, but it
misses the list. Boot Total Recall and replace with PREDATOR. Yeah
baby!
Matrix #1 but Wrath of Kahn #5?
KEEEEAAAANNNNUUUUU!!!
|5.4.07 @ 6:22PM|#
Uh, the aliens in V didn't want to drain earth's water supply. They came to FEED.
|5.4.07 @ 6:22PM|#
You know, the only reason they write lists like this is to see
sci-fi fans froth at the mouth.
That's the only explanation I have for why Starship Troopers is on
that list.
|5.4.07 @ 6:29PM|#
mediageek: No kidding. I love how they say that the only reason not to like it is that it looks like fascist propaganda.
stephen the goldberger|5.4.07 @ 6:29PM|#
1. the matrix reloaded
2. everything else
.
.
.
23241. lost
|5.4.07 @ 6:29PM|#
jf,
The list is worthless.
As for Predator, what other movie cast not one but two
governors?
If Carl Weathers runs for governor of Florida, I'll vote for him
just to complete the trifecta.
|5.4.07 @ 6:34PM|#
I can think of only two reasons to like Starship
Troopers, and neither is named Doogie Howser.
Okay, make it three reasons--I always like Michael Ironside in a
violent film.
Urkobold®|5.4.07 @ 6:34PM|#
Urkobold CONTEMPLATES SEARING ALL YOUR SOULS FOR CARING ABOUT
THIS LIST. MOST SF IS VERY STUPID. VERY LITTLE IS
WORTH TALKING ABOUT.
MOVE ALONG.
|5.4.07 @ 6:36PM|#
Urkobold CONTEMPLATES SEARING ALL YOUR SOULS FOR CARING
ABOUT THIS LIST. MOST SF IS VERY STUPID. VERY LITTLE IS WORTH
TALKING ABOUT.
MOVE ALONG.
This from the guy who is infatuated with german versions of star
wars?
|5.4.07 @ 6:41PM|#
Pro Lib: The only two reasons to like that film are attached to Denise Richards' chest.
cgee|5.4.07 @ 6:42PM|#
But then we remembered Star Wars: Clone Wars, the series of
animated shorts that aired on Cartoon Network. The creation of
animator Genndy Tartakovsky (The Powerpuff Girls, Samurai
Jack)...
How can they mention Genndy Tartakovsky, in an article about sci-fi
shows, and not reference Dexter's Laboratory as one of his
works? Sure, GT was involved in The Powerpuff Girls, but
it was created by Craig McCracken.
cgee|5.4.07 @ 6:45PM|#
Tron was released in the summer of 1982, so it juuuust squeezes into the last 25 years. Perhaps the morons who compiled this list are shit at math.
|5.4.07 @ 6:46PM|#
OK, I'm happy Firefly/Serenity was there, and that Aliens and
Blade Runner were in the Top 10...
...BUT THE STEAMING PILE OF CRAP THAT IS "THE MATRIX" IS NO.
1?????
Also, Sandy and JW are right: Where the fuck is Babylon 5???
cgee|5.4.07 @ 6:50PM|#
I have no problem with putting The Matrix and Matrix:Reloaded
somewhere on this list, just a whole lot lower.
But the third Matrix movie was total shite and should be ranked
somewhere on the sci-fi pantheon down with Alf (since the list
mixed movies and television, I am doing the same).
cgee|5.4.07 @ 7:03PM|#
Excuse me, but E. (fraking) T.?
Fine, a cute movie, but not sci-fi. Sorry. Haul that crap out back,
please.
|5.4.07 @ 7:11PM|#
Contrary to some Übergeeks here, I actually liked the Matrix(the
first one) and consider it one of the most original, and well done,
SciFi movies of the last 10 years. Even with Keanu's horrid acting
the character development is light years beyond Tron's (its plot
styling predecessor).
That having been said, Blade Runner should have been Number 1,
followed by BSG, Aliens then everything else in a haphazard order.
WTF is with Total Recall being on the list anyway? Hell, Running
Man was better than that piece of shit and I hated Running Man. If
they HAD to pick a second film that the Governator was in(what with
the cabal), Predator was hella better.
|5.4.07 @ 7:12PM|#
Where the hell is SG-1/Atlantis, TRON, and The
4400?
Not on this list WHERE THEY BELONG. BAM!
cgee|5.4.07 @ 7:17PM|#
Oh, yeah, and whereintheheck is Dune (the 1984 David Lynch
version, not the recent SciFi Channel one). Granted, the movie had
some flaws, especially in its expurgated original theatrical
release, but the director's cut is much better. Just thinking about
this amazing cast alone makes me want to see it again:
Francesca Annis as Lady Jessica,
Brad Dourif as Piter De Vries
José Ferrer as Shaddam IV
Linda Hunt as Shadout Mapes
Freddie Jones as Thufir Hawat
Kyle MacLachlan as Paul Atreides
Virginia Madsen as Princess Irulan
Everett McGill as Stilgar
Siân Phillips (Livia!) as Rev. Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
Jürgen Prochnow as Duke Leto Atreides
Patrick Stewart (Jean-Luc!) as Gurney Halleck
Dean Stockwell as Dr. Wellington Yueh
Max von Sydow as Liet Kynes
Sean Young as Chani
Sting as Feyd-Rautha Harkonnen (okay, he sucked, but still…)
|5.4.07 @ 7:22PM|#
Jonathan Hohensee is obviously an Islamofascist(that's what we're calling people instead of commies these day right?)
|5.4.07 @ 7:26PM|#
Heroes, but no X-Men or X2? Back to the Future better than
Children of Men? Wow.
If you haven't seen the independent (really independent) movie
called "Primer" and you like thoughtful sci-fi, I can't recommend
it enough.
|5.4.07 @ 7:30PM|#
By the way, I'd ask if I'm the only person who thinks that BSG sucks, but I already know that Gregg Easterbrook agrees:
This became especially ridiculous in the season finale, when the shocker was the revelation that four of the key human characters were, in fact, Cylons -- they didn't know themselves because they couldn't tell a human from a Cylon either! The robot programmed to think he's human is a sci-fi staple, but this veered into the preposterous, especially since one of the characters who discovers he's a Cylon is in his 60s, and previously it has been declared that human-appearing cyborgs have existed only 40 years.
I'm glad I ditched the series before having to sit through that, because I would have thrown a brick through my television.
Franklin Harris|5.4.07 @ 7:33PM|#
Babylon 5 has not aged well. Straczynski's dialog gets creakier
with its pseudo-Shakespearean pretensions all the time.
Other observations:
1. Doctor Who is ranked far too low.
2. Starship Troopers is a flaming plasma turd from a giant
bug.
3. The X-Files is only No. 4 is you forget the last three seasons.
Fortunately, I have.
4. Battlestar Galactica should be No. 1.
5. I don't get the appeal of Lost.
|5.4.07 @ 7:33PM|#
I liked Children of Men, but at the same time its pretty
pretentious and forgettable. That said, it's pretty much a gimme
that every list like this would at least have a handful of
conterpratory medicore movies on the list to send nerds into a
tizzy/satisfy the egos of reviewers.
Also mark my words, if this list was made a couple of years into
the future The X-Files would either be a lot lower on the list than
it is now or not on it at all. That show ages horribly.
|5.4.07 @ 7:34PM|#
My items for the list:
Blake's 7
Farscape
Frisky Dingo
Item to remove:
TNG
Somehow the entire Star Trek TNG series (XVID / DIVX encoded AVI
files) appeared on my hard drive one day. I just couldn't get into
it - hit delete key. Some episodes were only mildly entertaining.
Others are plain dull and I either fell asleep or distracted myself
by washing some dishes. The data character seems to have been
written solely to attract adolescent girls to the show. And its a
case of "been there, done that". The later seasons are supposed to
be better - maybe I should have skipped forward a few years. Or
better still, to the 1966 series.
I find Space 1999 way more entertaining, especially the funky
sixties action film music. Some really good scifi written around a
pretty bad premise. For those not in the know, Earth's moon got
blown/accelerated out of the solar system, and those people working
on it at the time are now traveling around the universe via the
moon. The seem to have an infinite supply of spacecraft stored in
hangars under the moons surface.
The new Battlestar Galactica is good. I'd say it puts the old 1978
BSG to shame, but the old one doesn't need a better example next to
it in order to be shamed. Its like the producer/director/writers
took a potentially good storyline and did their best to wreck the
production. The worst part being supposed soldiers that look and
act like high school seniors or college dropouts. And robots that
fly spaceships by maneuvering controls like a person would? Duh.
With the "every does it" excuse I can half forgive the concept of
robots having some need to audibly talk to each other to convey
information. (Here's an idea for the future - have the robots
audibly silient and use subtitles to show what they are
communicating) But, the recent rewatch of the old series did get me
through the current new BSG dry spells.
I'm feeling a bit nerdy now...
cgee|5.4.07 @ 7:39PM|#
I was a kid when Space:1999 came out (like the Prince song, 1999 was seen as a ridiculously long time away -- heh). The only two things I remember from the show are the cool black and white RV that they drove around in, and the "futuristic" theme music. Then again, my memory may be faulty as I enter my 40s.
|5.4.07 @ 7:43PM|#
And I've got to say, although I like it, BSG won't age well
either. I have a feeling that when people watch it 20 years from
now that the Bush anoluges will come off as clunky and obvious.
Another thing that hurts it is that, like all other sci-fi in this
current crop of tv, is that it is way too fucking dasrk.
Where the fuck is all the fun in sci-fi television anymore? Lost,
Heroes, BSG, Children of Men are all dour as fuck. Its like they
all are stealing from the X-Files formula of "let's light the set
poorly and make the people watching want to hang themselves"
cgee|5.4.07 @ 7:47PM|#
Re the Space:1999 theme -- it is the only one I know that was
half classical, half disco. It was like two separate themes taking
turns.
Oh, yeah, and Martin Landau. Who I cannot even mention anymore
without thinking of the now-classic line "Karloff? Sidekick? F*ck
you!"
|5.4.07 @ 7:48PM|#
Jonathan Hohensee,
I have to disagree with your assessment of Heroes as "dour as
fuck." While there certainly is an atmosphere of despair, there are
many elements of hope as well. The most recent episode, from the
year 2012, showed the worst that can happen. I've reason to believe
that the only reason to show the worst is to eventually show how
much better things can end.
That's the only reason I can see for depicting a character like
Hiro Nakamura as a cold-blooded ninja 5 years hence, which is
completely different from the Hiro of the present day.
And in case you can't tell, I strongly feel that Heroes is the best
show on television right now.
|5.4.07 @ 7:49PM|#
Oh, yeah, and Martin Landau. Who I cannot even mention
anymore without thinking of the now-classic line "Karloff?
Sidekick? F*ck you!"
I'd heard that line a million times, but only recently did I
finally watch Ed Wood, and the line hit so much harder in
context.
cgee|5.4.07 @ 7:51PM|#
I also think that Gattaca needs to be somewhere on the list. Take off that Jim Carrey movie to make some room.
|5.4.07 @ 7:57PM|#
Jonathan Hohensee,
I have to disagree with your assessment of Heroes as "dour as
fuck." While there certainly is an atmosphere of despair, there are
many elements of hope as well. The most recent episode, from the
year 2012, showed the worst that can happen. I've reason to believe
that the only reason to show the worst is to eventually show how
much better things can end.
That's the only reason I can see for depicting a character like
Hiro Nakamura as a cold-blooded ninja 5 years hence, which is
completely different from the Hiro of the present day.
And in case you can't tell, I strongly feel that Heroes is the best
show on television right now.
All of them have some undertone of hope to them, but not one of
them are without, using your words, an atmosphere of despair. I
still think the shows are great and innovatitive, but find the
dourness to be akin to a clove-smoking college jackass telling us
that the world is a vampire, sent to drain.
|5.4.07 @ 7:59PM|#
I also think that Gattaca needs to be somewhere on the
list
Snap! Other than B5 and DS9 (neither of which are likely to get too
much support here), Gattaca was definitely the movie most
dissed by being left off.
|5.4.07 @ 8:02PM|#
Gattaca
Which reminds me, Equilibrium! FUCKING GUN KATA! CONFUSING
HOMOEROTIC ATTRACTION TO CHRISTIAN BALE!
|5.4.07 @ 8:07PM|#
Christ I wish I could take that back. I've never seen
Equilibrium, but I will add the movie that was similar but
superior to The Matrix, The Thirteenth
Floor.
Also, the best example of sci-fi noir since Blade Runner,
Dark City.
|5.4.07 @ 8:10PM|#
Have you seen Equilibrium? Imagine if a sexless 14 year-old
wrote a movie script to 1984, removed most of the phillosophical
undertones and put in some wack-ass form of gun kung-fu.
The last twenty minuets is just Christian Bale shooting the living
fuck out of people, taking a break to slice Taye Biggs in half, and
then shooting the fuck out of more people. And it's the only
dystopian movie I've seen where the good guys win.
|5.4.07 @ 8:18PM|#
The way I described that made it sound bad. Imgagine all of that, only really, really fucking good.
|5.4.07 @ 8:23PM|#
If I still had my Netflix membership, Equilibrium would go to the top of the list. It sounds pretty good. Bale is a great actor, from the four movies I've seen with him: American Psycho, Reign of Fire, The Machinist, and Batman Begins.
|5.4.07 @ 8:32PM|#
Christ! How could I forget Fifth Element? Where the hell is
that?
Boot:
Quantum Leap
ET
Back to the Future
Lost
V
Heros (too soon)
Total Recall
Drop in rating:
Matrix (I liked it too, but it ain't #1)
STTNG
X-Files
Add:
All the stuff I already listed
And Doctor Who belongs in the top 10 just for longetivity. I like
how they nabbed The Thing and Brazil. Good calls.
Top 5:
1. Blade Runner
2. BSG
3. Wrath of Khan
4. Aliens
5. Firefly/Serenity
There. Now it's perfect.
|5.4.07 @ 8:47PM|#
I find Space 1999 way more entertaining, especially the
funky sixties action film music.
MORE WAH-WAH PEDAL!!
|5.4.07 @ 8:53PM|#
If this list were compiled ten years ago, Sliders, Independence Day, and Men In Black would be on it in place of Children of Men, Lost, and Heroes.
|5.4.07 @ 9:25PM|#
I don't know, I stopped watching after the episode with the transdimensional Cro-Magnons and their monkey-screech sirens.
Nobody Important|5.4.07 @ 9:38PM|#
Plea to URKOBOLD! | May 4, 2007, 6:08pm
Any list that involves even the most remotely positive casting of "The Matrix" deserves eternal, searing pain and relentless courses in womyn's studies.
I'm sure it had nothing to do with Entertainment Weekly
being a
Time-Warner publication, and The Matrix being distributed by
Warner Bros.
|5.4.07 @ 9:48PM|#
I'll add my love for Equilibrium and Dark
City. Great flicks.
Is not V for Vendetta a sci-fi flick?
The Matrix was excellent. I saw it here and then a month
or so later in Marburg, Germany (dubbed). That was fun! The last
one was truly crap.
|5.4.07 @ 9:54PM|#
This is the only chance I'll ever get to post a link to this on H & R. This has got to be the most original tie-in to Serenity ever. I'm trying to make the thing, too. I expect to be buried in it.
|5.4.07 @ 10:00PM|#
Drop Starship Troopers, V and The Thing and add and add Strange Days, Dark City. and Minority Report.
|5.4.07 @ 10:11PM|#
Strange Days, Dark City. and Minority Report.
2 out of 3 ain't bad. Definitely Dark City, and I'd say a
coin flip between the other two, with the edge going to Strange
Days.
OT, but as much as I love everything sci-fi, I'm a bit weirded out
right now because my cat had a seizure in my arms shortly after my
last post, and I've been more concerned with researching feline
seizures and local veterinary hospitals than anything else. He's ok
now, but it was really scary for me.
|5.4.07 @ 10:36PM|#
If my cat had a seizure, I'd be freaked, too. Are you sure it wasn't a crazy dream? I've seen a couple of cats twitch wildly in their sleep.
|5.4.07 @ 10:45PM|#
The Real Bill,
No, he jumped off the couch toward me, and then leaned against the
coffee table (which he's never done before). I picked him up, he
went stiff in my arms and started purring weirdly as I carried him
to the kitchen. I put him down in the kitchen, he took two steps
and fell over on his right side, with both left limbs stuck up in
the air. He didn't respond to me at all and stared off into space
for about 20-30 seconds, before finally coming around again. After
a few minutes he was back to normal. I spent the next hour freaked
out and looking up everything I could on cat seizures, and I'm 99%
sure that's what it was. Now, I'm going to be up all night watching
him, because if he has another it's off to the veterinary
hospital.
highnumber|5.4.07 @ 10:46PM|#
jf,
I hope your cat is ok. I'd pray for you and it if that was my
thing. FWIW, my dog checked on me while I typed this. Perhaps she's
concerned, too.
|5.4.07 @ 10:55PM|#
Thanks, highnumber. Prayer isn't my thing either, but when my parents told me they were praying for him, it made me feel good.
|5.4.07 @ 11:23PM|#
"It's proving what sci-fi fans have known for decades: Science
fiction is as legitimate a vehicle for human drama as any other
genre."
Screw that. The value of science fiction, when done right, is in
its paradoxical and ingenius plots that mine philosophical
questions or alternatively to provide literally 'out of this world'
action. Think PK Dick (what does it mean to be human as opposed to
a machine? what does it mean to know something?) or Star Wars. The
Sci-Fi channel has basically given the entire genre a bad name with
its crappy shows. It reminds me of how great Star Trek the Next
Generation was for the first couple of seasons. They had great idea
driven episodes, like the ones where they get stuck in the time
loop (the Manheim effect I think they called it, in one episode
Picard must actually kill an alternate version of himself to free
the ship), or the dealing with the omnipotent Q. Then they brought
in all that crappy human interest bull (hey, isn't Worf
terrifically gruff? Isn't it great to see that old fusspot Picard
get laid?). If you want great human drama then read War and Peace
(really, its a great book) or Salinger. But let sci-fi do its
thing, please!
|5.4.07 @ 11:50PM|#
They had great idea driven episodes, like the ones where
they get stuck in the time loop (the Manheim effect I think they
called it, in one episode Picard must actually kill an alternate
version of himself to free the ship)
I think you are referring to "We'll Always Have Paris." I don't
remember Picard killing an alternate version of himself. He did
give a death sentence to an alternate Enterprise commanded by Riker
(one where Picard/Locutus had led the Borg to a successful invasion
of our solar system) in "Parallels."
|5.5.07 @ 12:00AM|#
Starship Troopers was brilliant, deserves to be higher. And why
not Robo-Cop as well?
Dark City and 12 Monkeys also belong near the top.
|5.5.07 @ 12:03AM|#
The love for Dark City is awesome and lets me know I'm
not alone regarding that movie.
Another film that comes to mind is Soderbergh's Solaris,
which, while flawed, is still a great sci-fi movie.
|5.5.07 @ 12:03AM|#
jf
The episode is called Time Squared. It's great.
http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/episode/68384.html
|5.5.07 @ 12:23AM|#
I started watching TNG when it first appeared, but quickly
became disillusioned.
TNG was the most anti-science SF show I ever saw. Every time a
major scientist appeared he/she was a) wildly insane, or b) totally
irresponsible, or c) developing dangerous technology, or d) wracked
by guilt over the consequences of someone using the technology they
had produced.
There was a strong undercurrent that science and technology were
dangerous and not to be trusted.
|5.5.07 @ 5:01AM|#
Also mark my words, if this list was made a couple of years into the future The X-Files would either be a lot lower on the list than it is now or not on it at all. That show ages horribly.
What's really sad is that the evil government conspiracies
portrayed in the X-Files actually seem benign compared to what has
happened in the past few years.
|5.5.07 @ 8:53AM|#
Another film that comes to mind is Soderbergh's
Solaris,
Yeah, flawed is one way of putting it. The original Soviet version
of Solaris (1973) is way better, if you don't mind
subtitles.
|5.5.07 @ 9:03AM|#
Aresen,
Right, just like most farmers, soldiers, traders, and antique
collectors who appear on the show are a source of danger in some
way.
Since the formula of the vast majority of episodes was to put the
Enterprise or some innocent people in danger and then find a way to
extricate them from it, any outside scientists who appeared had to
have some sort of danger associated with their research.
Non-dangerous advanced research just isn't that interesting to the
uninitiated.
|5.5.07 @ 9:06AM|#
I'll succumb to recentism and put in a plug for I, Robot, which I was expecting to be horrible when I first heard about it. It turned out to be a great flick though.
T|5.5.07 @ 9:17AM|#
I think I'm going to be the only person here to say this: I love
it when mainstream publications do lists like this. Yes,
EW knows about as much about the genre as my 6 month old
puppy. So what? The geek fight that follows is the entertaining
part. I get more out of the discussion than I'm ever going to get
out some asshat's list. Hell, I had no idea there was a Soviet
version of Solaris from the 70s.
jf: good luck and health to your cat. Our previous dog had many
health issues in her last year and it's nerve wracking, so I know
how you feel.
Oh, and Urkobold: Sturgeon's Law still applies.
D.A. Ridgely|5.5.07 @ 10:17AM|#
Being lazy, I did my own sci-fi movies 25 year "Top Three" list here. iMDB's fan base has it's top fifty all time sci-fi movies list here. I'd say the iMDB fans have, well, interesting ideas about what counts as good sci-fi.
Clemsonuee|5.5.07 @ 10:50AM|#
I may be the only one but I'd put Space: Above and Beyond in the
top 25. I also really liked Gattica.
I also think BSG is way overrated. And with the Matrix any time
that I see the twist coming so far ahead that I get bored waiting
for them to "reveal" it can't make my top 25. Now if they wanted to
place the Japanese version that Matrix borrowed from then I could
see that. I think it was titled Ghost in the Machine but I am not
really sure.
SPD|5.5.07 @ 11:09AM|#
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan = Greatest Movie Ever
Made
(Suck it, Citizen Kane!)
lame pun|5.5.07 @ 11:57AM|#
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan = Greatest Movie Ever
Made
(Suck it, Citizen Kane!)
Citizen Kahn.
Mike Laursen|5.5.07 @ 12:00PM|#
The fucking Matrix?! Number one to an over-length
pseudo-profound special effects flick with a ridiculous premise,
somnolent lead, and second-rate kung fu chops?!
OK, maybe they could give it number twenty-five for Carrie-Anne
Moss' leather pants.
And don't get me started on the list having Futurama, but
no Jetsons!
wsdave|5.5.07 @ 12:22PM|#
jf,
If you haven't done so yet, GET YOUR CAT TO THE VET!!!!
Your cat is suffering from high blood pressure (most likely) and
will probably need meds for the rest of it's life. Our cat lasted 5
years after her first episode, and thanks to the drugs, it was a
good 5 years.
|5.5.07 @ 12:27PM|#
And don't get me started on the list having Futurama, but no
Jetsons!
25 years = 1982 and after. Jetsons = 1960's
I second Space: Above and Beyond, but it's a short list and it
doesn't rate compared to everything else. Maybe #25.
I would put Reboot above Futurama, just for preceeding it by 7
years or so and paleo-geek humor.
wsdave|5.5.07 @ 12:27PM|#
I stopped watching BSG after the 1st season: I could see it
becoming a Sci-Fi soap opera, and I was right. Ti the alcoholic,
Adama's kid (whatever his name is) marrying the black woman
(whatever her name is, but damn she's hot), only to have an affair
with Starbuck. Members of the crew being Cylons all this
time...
A fucking soap opera if ever there was one.
|5.5.07 @ 12:46PM|#
As for Predator, what other movie cast not one but two
governors?
I believe that "Running Man" two governors in it as well...and
Richard Dawson would make a kickass governor over Carl Weathers any
day of the week.
rob303|5.5.07 @ 1:01PM|#
First off, it was good to see that the recent Star Wars movies
failed to make the cut.
Personally, I was happy to see Firefly on the list, but boy did
they really miss the boat by leaving out Stargate and Babylon 5.
Wow!
I'm not certain I would consider Lost to be sci-fi although it has
sci-fi elements at times. Mystery/Drama perhaps? Maybe I'm wrong,
it's difficult to put in a category. I certainly wouldn't consider
Starship Troopers to be "Good Sci-Fi." The movie sucked.
Very happy to see BSG in a solid #2 position... although I felt
Matrix and Blade Runner should be swapped in their rank positions.
And Terminator at #13? IMO it needed to be up at #5
I agree with the guy who said "Throw out Total Recall, and replace
it with Predator."
D.A. Ridgely|5.5.07 @ 2:00PM|#
Starship Troopers is considered good sci-fi by the same people who think playing Doom is the best way to use a computer.
|5.5.07 @ 2:15PM|#
Highly recommended for hard sci-fi fans: Primer. Unpretentious and confusing as hell through at least the first two viewings. But very cool. And the Wikipedia diagrams are a required tutorial.
|5.5.07 @ 3:44PM|#
A fucking soap opera if ever there was one.
Andromeda fan, eh?
It's not sopa opera, it's drama. If you look at any of art or
literature that has stood the test of time, all of it is character
driven. Plot and setting is important, of course, but character is
what drives the story forward. It's what makes a story compelling
and interesting. It's also next to impossible to have an successful
arc story line and not have flawed characters and situations.
If you want plot-only driven drama with drab, one-dimensional
characters, well, there's "Starship Troopers" for ya.
I love things blowing up as much as the next guy, I was actually
yelling at the TV during the scene where the Galactica jumped in
atmo and dropped like a flaming rock in "Exodus," but having
near-perfect people run around simply reacting to things is nothing
to be proud of. That's why STTNG was such a crushing bore.
|5.5.07 @ 3:45PM|#
Highly recommended for hard sci-fi fans: Primer.
Thanks swillfredo. I'll definitely check that out.
|5.5.07 @ 4:46PM|#
Citizen Kahn.
Citizen KAAAAAAAAHN!
What's really sad is that the evil government conspiracies
portrayed in the X-Files actually seem benign compared to what has
happened in the past few years.
The goofy, implausibly omnipotent/omniscient "one world order" was
one of the things that turns me off of the show, although also it
was part of the appeal.
|5.5.07 @ 6:31PM|#
The X-Files formula:
1) Imply that the government is behind every unexplained phenomenon
or mysterious disappearance.
2) Every time Mulder is about the crack the conspiracy, add a new
set of conspirators: IE: "Oh, the government only pretended to be
hiding aliens to distract everyone from the fact they're cataloging
every one's DNA".
3) Never, ever actually resolve anything. That way you can stretch
the premise over 7 seasons.
The Lost formula: See above, adapt to tropical island.
|5.5.07 @ 7:54PM|#
some random thought if anyone is still reading the thread:
Why is Brazil on this list? It's a great film, but it's
not sci-fi. Everything they had in the film was technically
possible when it was released in the early 80's. So long as they
were doing this, they should have made the list from the last 27
years, and included Escape From New York.
The Matrix...sparked a moviegoing crush on Asian wire-fu (see:
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon). For me, this would be one
huge reason to hate the Matrix. and wire-fu is a big reason why
Japanese and Korean cinema is infinitely superior to HK / China. So
there.
I second Swilfredo's rec on Primer. It was made for about
$43, and it's better than any of the mega-buck epilepsy inducing
loads of steaming celluloid that Bruckheimer has ever done.
Even the most ardent Bab 5 fans have to admit that the
quality was very spotty. There were some episodes where I
felt horrible for the actors, having to read lines that Lucas would
have thought were trash. Straczinski was at his best showing
scheming, amoral politicos playing for advantage. He was at his
worst when attempting humor, which I don't think he ever achieved
in five seasons on the show.
lunchstealer|5.5.07 @ 7:55PM|#
Gattaca and Contact were the two movies I felt should have made
the list.
B5 and the Stargate franchise should have made it from TV.
Galaxy Quest was cute, but ultimately forgettable. ET was less
forgettable, but arguably even lighter.
The Matrix should have been farther down the list, possibly top ten
but definitely not #1.
I didn't miss Dune on the list. I thought that Lynch's version was
just badly done, and the SciFi miniseries was better, but it's
still a better book than movie.
Terminator and Doctor Who were underrated. BSG may be overrated,
but I'm willing to call that a difference of opinion.
Might actually have liked to see Signs on the list. Not that I
liked it that much, but it was an interesting take on the alien
invasion theme. The SF wasn't that good, but the human study was
interesting.
|5.5.07 @ 10:01PM|#
Even the most ardent Bab 5 fans have to admit that the
quality was very spotty.
Oh yeah, hugely spotty. It was embarrassing sometimes. I often
referred to it as the "Land of the Lost and Washed-Up TV
Stars."
Peter Jurasic and Andreas Katsulas were good actors in their own
right and everyone else pretty much sucked ass. But, damned if I
didn't choke up on the final episode anyway.
LarryA|5.6.07 @ 5:56PM|#
I'd have to add:
The Last Starfighter (1984)
http://amazon.imdb.com/title/tt0087597/
Videogaer saves the Universe and wins Catherine Mary Stuart. Plus
Robert Preston.
Enemy Mine (1985)
http://amazon.imdb.com/title/tt0089092/
I mean, top Dennis Quaid as an Earth fighter jock, and Louis Gosset
Jr. as a pregnant lizard?
Starship Troopers should be renamed to avoid mistaking
it's plotp for Heinlein's excellent story.
|5.7.07 @ 9:57AM|#
Ayn Randian,
Ah, Ventura was in The Running Man, wasn't he? Forgot
about that. Okay, that's two movies with two
governors.
Gattaca was a really good movie, but it somehow flies
under the radar. Not sure why.
|5.7.07 @ 2:55PM|#
quote: cgee
Tron was released in the summer of 1982, so it juuuust squeezes
into the last 25 years. Perhaps the morons who compiled this list
are shit at math.
Or perhaps "Tron" was just a shite movie? Ya think?
I'm going with the consensus, for the most part - "Matrix" was
rated too high (but should be on the list), "Doctor Who" too low.
Personally, I'd put DS9 on the list to represent the Star Trek
franchise rather than TNG. "B5" should be on there somewhere - I'm
not sure where. And "Total Recall" sucks greatly.
|5.7.07 @ 3:16PM|#
OK, OK - Buffy, Spiderman, and anything involving either magic
or comic books is NOT science fiction, it's fantasy. Very important
distinction.
Fantasy assumes magical forces and the power of symbols. Science
fiction assumes a rational (though possibly inexplicable) universe
and symbols that are just symbols. The point of science fiction is
(or should be) to show the relationship between humanity and
technology. Why is Brazil on the list, even without any futuristic
tech? Because the tech, and the political system supported by it,
had taken over people's lives.
I'm glad Doctor Who was on the list (the poor Doctor gets very
little coverage from EW) but I missed Babylon 5, which was a great
attempt to portray a genuine multi-species society. Oh, and
crimethink - the Visitors wanted our water AND our meat. Greedy
lizards!
I could make a good argument for Starship Troopers as superior
science fiction. The film posits a highly-advanced military
dictatorship - the one imagined by Heinlein - that actually works,
and relies on its technology to confront (but not defeat) an
equal-but-opposite enemy. However, Verhoeven is as far left as
Heinlein was right, so Verhoeven's film burlesques what the book
takes for granted. From small touches like the Earth's moon having
a "ring" of spaceports that mirror the ring around the bug planet,
to the major themes of species survival, total war, propaganda, and
how politics and standardized education divides humans into
castes...I just really think this film doesn't get the respect it
deserves.
"Mobile infantry made me the man I am today!"
|5.8.07 @ 4:18PM|#
I could make a good argument for Starship Troopers as
superior science fiction. The film posits a highly-advanced
military dictatorship - the one imagined by Heinlein
Um, no. No. NO. NOOOOO.
Heinlein did not imagine a military dictatorship. Heinlein imagined
a political system where people voted. But before you received the
right to vote, you had to earn it. Such as by volunteering for the
military.
Heinlein meant to make the following points:
1) Every form of government is an organized use of force. Every
form. Democracies included.
2) When you vote, you are advocating the use of force. You are
deciding what other people (the dissenting minority) should be
forced to do.
3) Maybe there should be qualifications that people should meet
before being allowed to wield that kind of force against their
fellow citizens.
4) Maybe voters should prove that they are mature and civic-minded
enough to only use force for the good of society as a whole, as
opposed to for the good of themselves and their own interest
groups. Maybe they should first prove that they can put the
interests of their society, or anyway other people, ahead of
themselves.
5) Maybe a good way for them to prove this is by volunteering for
national service, specifically service in the military. If they
show they can be trusted with a weapon and are willing to die for
the good of others, then they can be trusted with the weapon of the
vote.
Arguably, this "use of force and putting the good of society before
your own" is a fascist concept, but if so then the democratic ideal
is a fascist concept also. This is something worth thinking
about.
Heinlein's Starship Troopers had many interesting and
thought-provoking ideas. Paul Verhoeven's version twisted and
distorted those ideas. He turned it into a Mel Brooks Nazi farce,
only without the (intentional) laughs. In doing so, he buried the
things-worth-thinking-about that were in the book. That's why I
hate the movie. That, and because it gave some people loopy ideas
about the book (e.g., that it depicted a "military
dictatorship.")
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