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Why May Day Is a Dark Day
The folks from Catallarchy remember the dark, bloodstained legacy of May Day:
Welcome to our annual Day of Remembrance. In past years, it has been held at our previous blog Catallarchy. This year, we were able to have our new project The Distributed Republic up and running just in time to host it here. Our goal is remember the plight of those lost lives to an ideology which promised to free the workers of the world but did the opposite.
Go here for details.
In a Reason vein, here are some stories worth rereading on May Day:
Rose-Colored Glasses: What even disillusioned Marxists missed, by Alan Charles Kors. Looks at the legacy of The God That Failed.
Memory Hole: Why the left wants to forget Uncle Joe, by Charles Paul Freund. Haunting review of Martin Amis' Koba the Dread: Laughter and the Twenty Million.
Hollywood's Missing Movies: Why American films have ignored life under communism, by Kenneth Lloyd Billingsley.
Guy Montag|5.1.07 @ 1:32PM|#
But Nick, you left out that it is now Mexican Flag Day in the USA. Just turn on the news and wait 10 min. to see the latest protest gaggles.
lunchstealer|5.1.07 @ 1:58PM|#
I miss the Soviet Union. It was always great to have them bring out all their big phallic symbols and parade them through Red Square on my birthday.
VM|5.1.07 @ 2:02PM|#
Lunch - hell, travel through Yurp today!
Although there's a dearth of phallic symbols, that's made up for by
vapid slogans painstakingly affixed to little sticks. And spray
paint. Also the organizers have attained pure androgyny!
In honor of Mexican flag day, we'll have a drink to the Italian
flag that our neighbor across the way sports (she's from there).
Since we're allowed to in America.
Interesting thing, that freedom. Interesting.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY LUNCHSTEALER!
|5.1.07 @ 2:19PM|#
I've sometimes thought there should be a lock out day.
...participating employers could lock their employees out, without
pay, for one day.
Capitalists of the world, unite!
Edward|5.1.07 @ 2:36PM|#
Unionism catapulted a lot of us into the middle class. American Communists were big union activists. Things aren't so black and white.
|5.1.07 @ 2:44PM|#
Unionism catapulted a lot of us into the middle class.
American Communists were big union activists. Things aren't so
black and white.
Amercian Communists were always a fringe group... even more so than
Libertarians. What a tiny fringe group with almost no popular
standing or political power did in one of the most anti-Communist
countries of the world, during one of its most anti-Communist
periods, has little bearing on Communism as a social
movement.
Communism should be judged by the governments that followed the
philisophy, not by the actions of a handful of marginalized people
in a country that spent trillions to fight Communism. The Soviet
Union, Cuba, North Korea, Maoist China, etc., are good examples of
Communism. The angry kids trying to get their parent's attention by
becoming dirty reds is a bad example of Communism.
lunchstealer|5.1.07 @ 2:51PM|#
Thank you, good Sir Moose!
Yeah, the vapid sloganism just isn't as impressive as great big
rumbling missile launchers and tanks.
But you take what you can get.
Oh, well, there are still all the fertility rights and May "Poles"
that all the young maids dance around. Plus the added benefit of
pissing off the fundies who get all hot and bothered about the
paganism of it.
24-Thac0 Goblin|5.1.07 @ 2:55PM|#
Actually, it's pretty lazy to rely on the experiences of the
Soviet Union et al to dismiss communism. That's like the shrill
urban lefty who says that W's failure after Katrina indicts
"limited government." W ain't limited government any more than Joe
Steel was Communist, even though both claimed to be.
Having said that, communism as a political philosophy isn't much
more than straw men and parlor tricks and shouldn't be taken
seriously by anyone ever anyway.
|5.1.07 @ 3:04PM|#
The problem with the "Stalin wasn't really a Communist" idea is that every society that attempted to go Commie has ended up becoming one form of totalitarian nightmare or another.
|5.1.07 @ 3:06PM|#
Stalin didn't match Mao in total numbers, and he didn't match
Pol Pot in percentage of population.
He was a freaking piker by Communist standards!
|5.1.07 @ 3:13PM|#
But every society that has "attempted to go Commie" has
explicitly followed the Marxist-Lenninist ideology.
There aren't any countries in which the revolutionaries replaced
the government with a collection of workers' councils. There aren't
any countries that were taken over by Trotskyites.
The Soviets made sure of that, using their material support for
communist groups to enforce doctrine and pick leaders.
|5.1.07 @ 3:15PM|#
The Paris Commune didn't devolve into a hell hole.
Then again, it lasted about 14 minutes.
highnumber|5.1.07 @ 3:20PM|#
Stalin didn't match Mao in total numbers, and he didn't
match Pol Pot in percentage of population.
He was a freaking piker by Communist standards!
Environmental damage?
|5.1.07 @ 3:20PM|#
Unionism Capitalism catapulted
a lot of us into the middle class.
Fixed that for you.
Unions don't create wealth. Unions can't do jack without a
capitalist society to the create wealth that they help to, um,
redistribute.
Do unions help some people get a step up? Maybe. However, the kind
of involuntary redistribution that is the stock in trade of unions
is not noted for increasing the wealth of society as a whole.
lunchstealer|5.1.07 @ 3:21PM|#
Yeah, my guess is that pure Marxism may be too vulnerable to ruthless bullies which will steer them towards Stalinism and Maoism.
|5.1.07 @ 3:24PM|#
The British Labour Party started out as a Marxist party. It was only a few years ago that they got around to removing "the eventual elimination of private property" from their platform.
Edward|5.1.07 @ 3:46PM|#
Capitalism remained intact in Nazi Germany. Chinese communists are now playing the capitalist game very skillfully. Capitalims (there is more than one) can accomodate a lot of thuggery; some forms of socialism (e.g., Scandanavian) are pretty successful at mixed economies and offer a rather elevated quality of life. Things are always more complex than ideologies make them out to be. Blogs like this offer an escape from complexity and its headaches. Marxism does the same thing.
|5.1.07 @ 3:49PM|#
Yeah, my guess is that pure Marxism may be too vulnerable to
ruthless bullies which will steer them towards Stalinism and
Maoism.
Pure anything is usually too fragile to last. Capitalism
included.
|5.1.07 @ 3:50PM|#
There aren't any countries in which the revolutionaries
replaced the government with a collection of workers'
councils.
I'd say the early days of the USSR fit the bill, at least to some
degree. As to Trotsky, he supported the idea of the "vanguard
party". And that goes to the heart of why Marxism would never
work.
|5.1.07 @ 3:52PM|#
I'd say the early days of the USSR fit the bill, at least to some degree.
Ah, the days of War Communism and deliberate famines.
|5.1.07 @ 3:57PM|#
Capitalism remained intact in Nazi Germany. Chinese
communists are now playing the capitalist game very
skillfully.
Totalitarian regimes sometimes recognize that capitalism is more
productive than communism and therefore manage capitalist systems
within their totalitarian states. You seem to think that this
somehow adds support to the argument that "it's pretty lazy to rely
on the experiences of the Soviet Union et al to dismiss
communism."
Have I got that right?
Maybe what you are really saying is that there are many
more reasons to dismiss communism than Stalin and his ilk
alone. Well, no debate from me on that point.
ed|5.1.07 @ 3:58PM|#
Pure anything is usually too fragile to last. Capitalism
included.
The U.S. has never had pure capitalism. We came close toward the
end of the 19th century. It's been a mixed economy ever since. It's
a mixed economy that is most fragile, as the most dangerous part of
the mix is government intrusion into the marketplace.
|5.1.07 @ 4:13PM|#
Never said we did. But, if we were to try it then it would be just as fragile, as the lack of protection against monopoly and exploitation would lead to the creation of an oligarchy during the implementation. Just like the attempt at the implementation of pure communism leads to oligarchy.
Edward|5.1.07 @ 4:22PM|#
Purity is the stuff of ideologies and always turns nasty. Haven't we Americans been blessed by a sort of immunity to absolutist ideologies? I like to think that we're entering a post-ideology era: what counts is what works, not what conforms to the rigid priciples of this or that overarching worldview. The Chinese seem to be getting on that track. We've always been on it, and that's why we've prospered.
|5.1.07 @ 4:39PM|#
Haven't we Americans been blessed by a sort of immunity to
absolutist ideologies?
In the past, yes. But nowhere is it written that it will last
forever, especially in an age where they can bash down your door
and lock you up without a trial.
I also hope you're not arguing that we're moving to pure
utilitarianism and it's a good thing.
|5.1.07 @ 5:00PM|#
"The U.S. has never had pure capitalism. We came close toward
the end of the 19th century."
Which was also the period of the most violent labor unrest, and the
housing and sanitary conditions that inspired "How the Other Half
Live."
The reason why we don't have this system anymore probably has
something to with its inherent instability. People are no more
going to put up with that than with the long lines and empty
grocery stores of 1989 Russia.
|5.1.07 @ 5:04PM|#
"There aren't any countries in which the revolutionaries
replaced the government with a collection of workers' councils.
There aren't any countries that were taken over by
Trotskyites."
If you read much about Trotsky's activities during the revolution
and civil war you will find that he is just as much of a murdering
thug as Stalin or Lennon ever were. He just got pushed out before
he could do more damage.
Rhywun|5.1.07 @ 5:10PM|#
Chinese communists are now playing the capitalist game very
skillfully.
Meh. Capitalism for some, repressive totalitarian regime for
everyone else. To anyone who still thinks China knows what it's
doing, I recommend this good
article over at City Journal.
|5.1.07 @ 5:56PM|#
Now that communism is gone, how about we repeal the creepy "Loyalty Day" and "Law Day" holidays?
Grotius|5.1.07 @ 6:39PM|#
I'd like to note that terror was part of Bolshevike policy from
the very first days following their rise to power.
joe,
The Paris Commune didn't devolve into a hell hole.
Actually it did. Oh, and it lasted ~two months.
Guy Montag|5.1.07 @ 7:38PM|#
Amercian Communists were always a fringe group... even more
so than Libertarians. What a tiny fringe group with almost no
popular standing or political power did in one of the most
anti-Communist countries of the world, during one of its most
anti-Communist periods, has little bearing on Communism as a social
movement.
A fringe group with plenty of Soviet funding and guidance. Perhaps
looking up a little link, like Ramparts magazine supplying
USisan Communists with press credentials to mee their Soviet
handlers in Hanoi and Havana might fill you in a little better.
Might want to look up some data on "Red Diaper Babies" too, like
that Bernstein fellow.
Guy Montag|5.1.07 @ 7:38PM|#
Capitalism remained intact in Nazi Germany.
No, that was National Socialism, just like in Fascist Italy.
Guy Montag|5.1.07 @ 7:41PM|#
Now that communism is gone, how about we repeal the creepy
"Loyalty Day" and "Law Day" holidays?
How is Communism "gone"? Haven't you read DailyKos or Ezra Klein
and their ilk lately?
|5.1.07 @ 8:55PM|#
I just finished Kenneth Lloyd Billingsley's overly-long,
one-sided, borderline demented piece trashing Hollywood for
"ignoring life under communism."
Maybe there's some slight truth behind his piece but I suspect he's
was so in a lather to spank a hollywoood that pretty much hasn't
existed for some 50 years that he's forgotten movies like The
Killing Fields, Torn Curtain, White Nights,
Letter To Breshnev, Moscow On The Hudson, The
Spy Who Came In From The Cold, The Last Emporer and
almost every film produced over the past 40 years that features
anything about Russia, Cuba, China or Vietnam.
With the exceptions of Reds, there is a running theme in
Hollywoood movies (the one that were actually seen by
people rather than the obscure chestnuts called out by Billingsley,
anyway).
In case Billingsley missed things like Rocky IV,The
Experts and Firefox when he was sleeping through the
80s, there has been precious little admiration in Hollywood for
Communism or communist governments.
To be sure, many of the films I mentioned were hardly masterpieces.
And precious few went into much detail or drama or even attempted
to be great storytelling. But then how many films do that anyway.
They did, however, do plenty to showcase fear, oppression and lack
of liberty inherent in communism. They went a long way toward
planting a negative view of communism in the minds of most
Americans.
Want to understand some of the things that helped get the Reagan
revolution started? Go watch Stripes.
Billingsley's peice was just more stilted crap...the kind of crap
that's got me visiting here less and less. This place used to be a
pretty amazing board. Not so much with poory researched trash like
this.
The editors here need to wake up and start giving a shit about
quality journalism instead of giving every moron a soapbox.
Grotius|5.1.07 @ 9:06PM|#
madpad,
The most memorable lines from that movie:
[Jonathan has just crossed from East Berlin to West Berlin and is
meeting with an American MP]
Jonathan: Am I in West Berlin now?
M.P.: You sure are.
Jonathan: [looking back at East Berlin and giving it the finger]
Fuck you!
[looking back to the M.P]
Jonathan: Good night.
[heads off]
M.P.: [looking at Jonathan, then looking at East Berlin] I've been
wanting to do that for the last six months.
|5.1.07 @ 9:10PM|#
Whoah, Grotius....out of the archives. Yeah, I remember that
one. Anthony Edwards vehicle back when he could carry a whole
movie.
But the Russian chick turns out to be a fake...in actuality an
American agent. What a let down.
|5.1.07 @ 9:55PM|#
How is Communism "gone"? Haven't you read DailyKos or Ezra
Klein and their ilk lately?
Hell, I saw a copy of Revolutionary Worker in a hipster coffeeshop
recently. Chairman Bob Avakian was calling for proletarian
solidarity with the people of someplace or other.
But as an international movement posing a serious threat, communism
is gone.
|5.1.07 @ 10:59PM|#
If you read much about Trotsky's activities during the revolution and civil war you will find that he is just as much of a murdering thug as Stalin or Lennon [...]
♫You say you want a revolution♫
Well you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
♫Don't you know you can count me out♫
|5.2.07 @ 1:36AM|#
♫You said you wanted evolution
The ape was a great big hit
You say you want a revolution, man
And I say that youre full of shit/♫
|5.2.07 @ 7:52AM|#
Ah, the days of War Communism and deliberate
famines.
I'm talking 1917-18, not 1932. The "Soviet" era of the Soviet Union
only lasted a few months. Of course, one could argue that it was
really just a sham and that Lenin had total power from Day 1 of the
regime. Either way, mostly a historical footnote now.
|5.2.07 @ 9:45AM|#
John,
"If you read much about Trotsky's activities during the revolution
and civil war you will find that he is just as much of a murdering
thug as Stalin or Lennon ever were."
Trotkyism isn't defined as "a government run by Leon Trotsky." It
was a different model of a communist government.
rob,
It ain't so. But hey, why actually think when you can smear?
Chris O,
"I'd say the early days of the USSR fit the bill, at least to some
degree." Almost as soon as the Bolshies got control of the national
government, they undid the workers' councils. They were never a
replacement for the national government.
Ah, as you later mention.
|5.2.07 @ 6:18PM|#
joe - Maybe you can explain how claiming that Communism has just
never been appropriately implemented is not a standard, canned,
"right from the talking points" defense of Communism?
You know, like you do here, on this very thread:
"joe | May 1, 2007, 3:13pm | #
But every society that has "attempted to go Commie" has explicitly
followed the Marxist-Lenninist ideology.
There aren't any countries in which the revolutionaries replaced
the government with a collection of workers' councils. There aren't
any countries that were taken over by Trotskyites.
The Soviets made sure of that, using their material support for
communist groups to enforce doctrine and pick leaders."
How exactly is that different than the common defense of communism
and socialism, which is that if only they were correctly
implemented they'd result in a workers paradise?
Surely I can't be the only one on this thread who sees your post in
this light...
|5.2.07 @ 8:35PM|#
joe and rob's tete a tete has me wondering...
Lots of capitalist states exist and it seems no two are exactly
alike. Most of Europe, North America and much of South America are
largely capitalist democracies with varying degrees of
socialism...or, if you prefer, 'welfare state.'
But if there were any other way to launch a communist society other
than Marxist-Leninist. you sure wouldn't know it.
Why is that?
|5.3.07 @ 7:14PM|#
madpad - Yeah, funny how that seems to be the case, isn't
it?
It makes you wonder if, in a Bizarro World alternate reality where
capitalism always leads to totalitarian rule by mass murdering
tyrants, the last argument being made by descredited, clearly
morally bankrupt right-wingers is that "capitalism has just never
been appropriately implemented..."
In that world joe is probably lecturing me that such an argument is
clearly as morally bankrupt as encouraging someone to jump off a
skyscraper by telling them that their magic feather will make them
able to fly and all the dead bodies at the bottom of the building
were just people who didn't "implement" the feather right.
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