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Weekend Open Thread
Have at it. Here's some chum to bloody up the waters:
|4.7.07 @ 11:43AM|#
I like that at the end Geraldo says that on other stuff O'Reilly has a "reasoned approach" in a softer tone of voice.
|4.7.07 @ 11:44AM|#
On the intarwebs, some people are saying that isht was staged. whatcha'll think?
crap-action-jackson|4.7.07 @ 11:55AM|#
So if the guy was here legally, would the accident be an
argument against legal immigration?
O'Reilly's a motard.
stephen the goldberger|4.7.07 @ 12:01PM|#
Only in a debate with Bill O'Reilly can Geraldo be the voice of reason.
|4.7.07 @ 12:02PM|#
It could've been staged.
I can't believe Geraldo said we intice them here. As if its our
fault that Mexico, which has been independent for 200 years, can't
get its act together.
Anyways, I still want to rant about those 15 British soldiers. I
thought they must've been tortured so didn't get too upset about
their "confessions". Of course, I don't know how I would react if
my finger nails were ripped out or they threatened to cut off my
penis.
But apparentley, they got up and disgraced their country due to
relieve themselves of "psychological pressure".
You couldn't script a better story about what pussies we are.
Here's John Derbyshire on it
http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm?frm=6582&sec_id=6582
Money quotes:
How on earth can Britons behave like that? A previous
generation would not have done so. I knew the women of my mother's
generation pretty well (Mum was born in 1912), and I am certain
that any one of them, given that headscarf and told to put it on,
would have said: "You can hang me with it if you like, but I'll be
damned if I'll wear the filthy thing." The men likewise. What on
earth has happened to the British?...
What has happened is multiculturalism. The British no longer
feel that contempt for other nations that sustained them for so
many centuries. Or, if they feel it, they guiltily suppress that
feeling, as being flagitiously "racist." Boswell described Johnson
as "a stern TRUE-BORN ENGLISHMAN, and fully prejudiced against all
other nations." (Boswell's capitals.) That would have the Thought
Police knocking on Johnson's door nowadays.
I think Americans would've been braver, but another 20 or 30 years
of liberalism and the therapy culture we'll be caught up with the
Brits on the road to hell.
Western civillization had a good run, my friends, enjoy its last
days.
|4.7.07 @ 12:04PM|#
On the intarwebs, some people are saying that isht was
staged. whatcha'll think?
It wouldn't surprise me. O'Reilly always cut off a person's mike
long before he could be put in a position where he would look like
the fascist blowhard that he is, so I find the fact that he let
Geraldo talk to be somewhat suspicious.
|4.7.07 @ 12:10PM|#
Why would the "confessions" indicate that they were pussies? Chest thumping bravado is a waste of time, OR talk is cheap.
|4.7.07 @ 12:12PM|#
I don't think O'Reilly would have the authority to cut off
Geraldo, given that they are both employees of the Fox News
channel. Alternatively, he might have a contractual right to
oversee some of the editing.
However, that said, I would not be surprised if it was staged.
The Idiot Bastard Son|4.7.07 @ 12:31PM|#
See what electing a bunch of Democrats'll get ya.
Now Fox News is trying to recast Geraldo as a voice of
reason.
Oh the humanity...
It would be more convincing if he wasn't already under contract to
Fox--I picture a Fox News producer addressing his troops "It's a
slow news day (no white-chicks in peril, no molested children). We
gotta do something... you two, fight or somethin'..."
This cultural anthropologist I hang out with (my wife) said:
"Bill O'Reilly's in-your-face, faux-aggressive act is an attempt to
appeal to our society's burgeoning 'surplus male' population, of
which he's certainly one"
vicious femme, that one
Nobody Important|4.7.07 @ 12:35PM|#
Geraldo Rivera: Illegal aliens commit crimes at a lower rate
than citizens do. (1:26 remaining)
I was not aware of this. Is this true?
|4.7.07 @ 12:40PM|#
While I'm the first person to scream "PR trickery", I have trouble believing this is fake at all, considering how passionate each side got.
|4.7.07 @ 12:42PM|#
highnumber, to us outside of Fox News fandom, it appears that Geraldo came out of it the winner. However, O'Reilly fans probably thought he won and Geraldo fans thought he won. Just a guess. It's just that tv news is so choreographed that it's hard to imagine that anything wouldn't be.
|4.7.07 @ 12:45PM|#
On the intarwebs, some people are saying that isht was
staged. whatcha'll think?
No, as hard as it is to believe, they're both sincerely batshit
crazy.
|4.7.07 @ 12:46PM|#
Geraldo Rivera: Illegal aliens commit crimes at a lower rate
than citizens do. (1:26 remaining)
I was not aware of this. Is this true?
Um, they're probably a lot less likeley to be identified and
caught.
The numbers of illegals in this country is somewhere between 12 and
20 million. We can't even get anything close to a reasonable count
of their population, much less crime rates. There are stuidies that
contradict Geraldo's claim. Nobody knows this stuff for sure.
And if you wanted to, you could point out that illegal immigrants
commit crimes by being here in the first place, making their crime
rate 100%.
|4.7.07 @ 1:04PM|#
RE: Fake?
On the Oprah show O'Reilly told those who calls "Traditional
Warriors" that they should engage in calm reasoned debate with the
"SPs" (i.e. Secular Progressives, Godless Heathens). One of the
audience members responded that he rarely stays calm in his
interviews and he laughed and responded that he has to get ratings
so you have to hype it up a bit. He said it with a smile, so it's a
bit unfair to call it a sincere admission of fakery, but I believe
him. The debate didn't have to be staged if both sides have an
incentive to get it a little heated.
Sometimes O'Reilly will calm down in the matter of 1 or 2 seconds,
and I have a hard time believing those episodes of anger are
genuine.
|4.7.07 @ 1:10PM|#
The British no longer feel that contempt for other nations
that sustained them for so many centuries.
Is it just me or is that funny coming from a Brit who emigrated
illegally to another country?
Charles|4.7.07 @ 1:37PM|#
I'm going to go with "fake but not staged." When you've been in the spotlight as long as these two, there's not much but fake left. I'm sure they've got some sense of what they really think in there, but it's been years (decades?) since they really allowed themselves any introspection or careful consideration of an issue and their feelings about it.
|4.7.07 @ 1:45PM|#
Geraldo Rivera: Illegal aliens commit crimes at a lower rate
than citizens do.
No it's not true. Forget for the moment that every illegal alien
has committed at least one crime (crossing the border illegally),
they also (for the most part) drive without a license, drive
without insurance, commit tax evasion, and many of them have stolen
social security numbers.
In addition to that, there have been more Americans killed by
illegal aliens then have died in Iraq.
Who ever thinks Geraldo sounds like the voice of reason is a fool.
Geraldo has a criminal record himswlf. He was involved in violent
protests during the ceaser chavez protest in California
highnumber|4.7.07 @ 1:56PM|#
Forget for the moment that every illegal alien has committed
at least one crime (crossing the border illegally)
BZZZZZZZZ!!!
Wrong.
they also (for the most part) drive without a license, drive
without insurance, commit tax evasion, and many of them have stolen
social security numbers.
You cannot back any of that up either.
Thanks for playing. Please go to the back of the line.
Steve in CLearwater|4.7.07 @ 1:57PM|#
HAPJACK: No, as hard as it is to believe, they're both sincerely
batshit crazy.
SH: Word
===========
JOHND does the math: they also (for the most part) drive without a
license, drive without insurance, commit tax evasion, and many of
them have stolen social security numbers.
SH: Other than the stolen SSNs, I've many times done each of the
above and I'm a native Texan.
Pragmatic decisions are not solely reserved for us True
Americans.
|4.7.07 @ 2:12PM|#
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05646r.pdf
Here are some numbers.
55000 or so illegal aliens arrested for about 700000 crimes, mostly
drug and immigration crimes.
Makes them a pretty small piece of the crime pie in the US.
|4.7.07 @ 2:17PM|#
No it's not true. Forget for the moment that every illegal
alien has committed at least one crime (crossing the border
illegally), they also (for the most part) drive without a license,
drive without insurance, commit tax evasion, and many of them have
stolen social security numbers.
I haven't reported everything I've sold on Ebay to the IRS. With as
many petty laws as we have in this country, we're all
criminals.
Jesse Walker|4.7.07 @ 2:21PM|#
I was kind of hoping Geraldo would tell O'Reilly that if we had deported the driver he just would have run over some Mexican kid.
|4.7.07 @ 2:21PM|#
JohnD, first of all, anyone that argues "the first part of
'illegal aliens' is illegal!" is a fucking retard.
Regardless of how you feel about immigration you have to
acknowledge that their are plenty of unjust laws. Adding on the
list of crimes that neccessarily spring from being an illegal alien
does not help your cause. It's great that you are able to state
(without any evidence) that the net effect of aliens on overall
number of deaths is greater than the net effect of the war in iraq
but that makes no sense. If aliens have a lower PER CAPITA death
rate than average they could actually cause MORE murders than the
war in Iraq and still cause an reduction in the overall number of
murders in the U.S. (nice use of the word "then" though).
Also a swell ad hominem attack on Geraldo rivera but I'm not sure
anyone that's ever been arrested ever could never be right about
anything.
btw I'm not a big fan of illegal immigration because we need a
controlled flow of immigration so that people can actually have
some predictability when making plans for the future.
Cesar|4.7.07 @ 2:22PM|#
So, John Derbyshire is saying Britain and Europe should return to 19th century nationalism, the exact thing that caused two very destructive world wars? Yeah, that'll save 'western civilization' alright.
dhex, masochistic liberal|4.7.07 @ 2:28PM|#
my first reaction was "wow...geraldo has a soul?" who
knew?
"Is it just me or is that funny coming from a Brit who emigrated
illegally to another country?"
he is a funny guy.
obviously i would disagree with chalupa about a lot of things, from
the price of milk to which bill laswell release is is his finest (i
lean towards axiom ambient or even the axiom funk collection; i
could see chalupa being either way too hard into painkiller or
perhaps the miles davis mixes/covers) but first and foremost in
this case is that the problem with britan is not "therapy culture"
(what the fuck?) or whatever bugaboo you might want to pick, but
more this ingrained desire to submit to authority whenever
possible.
which is why the whole "buncha pussies" narrative - and at this
point it is most certainly widespread enough to be considered one -
confuses the everloving fuck out of me. (maybe because all of the
toughest, most scary people i've ever met didn't really have much
political drive so much as a i'm a scary fucking bastard thing
going on?) it's invoked over a number of issues, not all of which
have any direct connection to bravery unless you want to get all
poetic about it (perhaps a national greatness connection to
immigration and "protecting the national character" or some such,
uh, wank)
protectionism is the first act of a pussy, if some are going to
insist on being tuff guys (tm) about it.
so let us not break this narrative:
think about this shit for a second - why would people in iowa be
more freaked out by 9/11, by and large, than many new yorkers? why
do people from 'merica come here, six years later, to take
photographs of what is now a construction site? or better yet, why
do they take snapshots of their family standing in front of the
perimeter fence? i used to just call them "death tourists" (i told
one guy who asked me to take his and his families picture to fuck
off before i beat the shit out of him, i was so utterly blown away
at the idea of having family fun day at a mass grave. i don't hate
those poor deluded bastards anymore...) and leave it at that, but i
think now that it's a way to ground the fear of the unknown and how
the war on some terror have combined into some kinda awful worship
of the state. shit, you see a similar thing from the 9/11 truthers
too...except in the opposite direction.
why? because the truth - that the government is a giant beast of
many hands and not the most efficient, and that if people really
want to they will blow up buildings and subways and all sorts of
stuff filled with people and babies and pets - is not nearly as
interesting or safe as a world where order exists and is real.
Order - with a capital O - is a lie, as we all know, but the dream
of order, even an evil order that's run by reptilians or the new
world order and international bankers or a shadowy conspiracy of
muslims is preferable to the idea that chaos is real and alive and
very much true. (hakim bey is a far better guide to these regions
than most, i think...)
the government can't save you. the government is fucked. what's the
solution to that? burn everything and hope things turn out ok 50
years from now? that's not much of a choice.
so we pick our narratives and hope for the best.
so this is mine:
there is no bigger puss move than the patriot act, or any case
where people laying down for government power is held up as a
common good.
remember that fucking piece of shit clinton and his fucking
wiretapping and his fucking "we must stop them thar meeelitias" and
all that shit? remember who stood for and against on the cultural
stage? partisanship - tribalism - is probably even more important
than fear when it comes to understanding politics.
i'll take therapy culture (again, wtf is that?) over people who
think colonialism was some kind of inter-cultural headcold rather
than a centuries-long crime spree.
Jim Murphy|4.7.07 @ 2:30PM|#
In addition to that, there have been more Americans killed
by illegal aliens then have died in Iraq.
This gets my vote for the dumbest comment ever posted here. You
might want to suggest that the "Tancredo for President" folks
remove it from their campaign material.
Just yesterday I saw a nasty looking accident with a church van and
a car. Based on the damage, someone could have died. Since we've
been a country for over 200 years now, its safe to say that God
fearing Baptists have killed "more Americans than have died in
Iraq" by now too....you can pretty much insert any other
demographic subset of our culture into this comparison as
well.
I feel dumber for just having read that guy's comment...
Jim Murphy|4.7.07 @ 2:34PM|#
there is no bigger puss move than the patriot act, or any case
where people laying down for government power is held up as a
common good.
remember that fucking piece of shit clinton and his fucking
wiretapping and his fucking "we must stop them thar meeelitias" and
all that shit? remember who stood for and against on the cultural
stage? partisanship - tribalism - is probably even more important
than fear when it comes to understanding politics.
i'll take therapy culture (again, wtf is that?) over people who
think colonialism was some kind of inter-cultural headcold rather
than a centuries-long crime spree.
Dhex's comment, meanwhile, may be one of the sharper things I've
read here....well played, sir!
Bhh|4.7.07 @ 2:50PM|#
My contempt for those ululating morons is fine and healthy but
thanks anyway Derb. However, we're by far the greater dumbasses
because we keep stirring up this snakepit because we're $20 crack
whores for that cheap mideast oil. It wouldn't be that implausible
a project to kick that and leave them eating sand and cutting off
each others heads for the next 10000 years as they have the last
10000. But no, keep throwing money and youngsters down that
toilet.
Anyway, this idea that some mideast goatblowing weirdbeards could
bring down Western Civilization. Such a lack of confidence isn't
attractive.
|4.7.07 @ 3:07PM|#
First, of all, the reason its hard to get reliable evidence on
illegal immigrants is because they are illegal immigrants and we
don't know who they are nor how many are here. Duh.
Second of all, you guys are fucking crazy. I have no hostility
towards Hispanic immigrants. Hell, if I was them I'd try to come
here illegally too. But are you pro immigrant people suggesting we
simply let in anybody in the world who wants to come here?
LarryA|4.7.07 @ 3:16PM|#
Steel cage match! With knives and chainsaws!
Woo-hoo!!!!!!!!
What I really wanted was one of those little Chinese woven tubes
that hold your fingers together point to point.
|4.7.07 @ 3:24PM|#
I don't know if illegals commit less crime, but I do know that
immigrants as a whole commit waaaaaay less crime than citizens, for
a variety of reasons.
I would think that an illegal would be less likely to break a law
that is more or less common sense (murder, rape, steal, etc) since
an illegal would prefer to stay out of the focus of John Q
Law.
But given that the drinking age everywhere outside of America is
like 6, then immigrants, esp illegals who were not required to
learn our laws, might not think that something like drinking muy
cervezas before riding in el automobil as breaking a law.
|4.7.07 @ 3:37PM|#
highnumber, to us outside of Fox News fandom, it appears
that Geraldo came out of it the winner. However, O'Reilly fans
probably thought he won and Geraldo fans thought he
won.
Isn't that how everyone feels about themselves when walking away
from pissing contests?
|4.7.07 @ 3:44PM|#
can anyone make sense of this week's Friday funnies?
It reminds me of that one Onion artlce;
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39320/print/
|4.7.07 @ 3:48PM|#
Dhex's comment, meanwhile, may be one of the sharper things
I've read here....well played, sir!
Maybe if you're a stoned 19 year old Ward Churchill groupie. Let's
take a look at it bit by bit.
obviously i would disagree with chalupa about a lot of things,
from the price of milk to which bill laswell release is is his
finest (i lean towards axiom ambient or even the axiom funk
collection; i could see chalupa being either way too hard into
painkiller or perhaps the miles davis mixes/covers) but first and
foremost in this case is that the problem with britan is not
"therapy culture" (what the fuck?) or whatever bugaboo you might
want to pick, but more this ingrained desire to submit to authority
whenever possible.
This is Britain's problem? Really? The country that has one of the
longest running democracies in the world and whose former colonies
(Australia, US, South Africa, India) are all free socities and
regional superpowers is the country that is desperate to submit to
authority. Not the Arabs, where 19 nations are either hereditary
dictatorships or in Anarchy? Not Russians or Germans, who just
sixty years ago were dying in droves for Stalin and Hitler? Not the
Chinese, whose ancient poetry is filled with praise of government
service and still calls itself communist?
Yea, its the Brits who are bootlickers.
think about this shit for a second - why would people in iowa
be more freaked out by 9/11, by and large, than many new yorkers?
why do people from 'merica come here, six years later, to take
photographs of what is now a construction site? or better yet, why
do they take snapshots of their family standing in front of the
perimeter fence? i used to just call them "death
tourists"
I've never even heard of this. I'd bet at least as millions times
as many people are going to spring break in cancun or somewhere
where they aren't thinking about death or politics.
(i told one guy who asked me to take his and his families
picture to fuck off before i beat the shit out of him, i was so
utterly blown away at the idea of having family fun day at a mass
grave. i don't hate those poor deluded bastards anymore...) and
leave it at that, but i think now that it's a way to ground the
fear of the unknown and how the war on some terror have combined
into some kinda awful worship of the state. shit, you see a similar
thing from the 9/11 truthers too...except in the opposite
direction.
What stupidity. What evidence do you see that we are seeing a
"worship of the state?"
Our president has an apporval rating of about 20 something percent.
That of congress isn't much better. Our government expenditure as
percentage of the GDP is less than that of just about any other
industrialized country. This is a country where the word
"politician" is an insult.
In a world with Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Libya, Iran and Cuba it
takes some amazing intellectual gymnastics to see Brits and
Americans as worshippers of authority.
why? because the truth - that the government is a giant beast
of many hands and not the most efficient, and that if people really
want to they will blow up buildings and subways and all sorts of
stuff filled with people and babies and pets - is not nearly as
interesting or safe as a world where order exists and is real.
Order - with a capital O - is a lie, as we all know, but the dream
of order, even an evil order that's run by reptilians or the new
world order and international bankers or a shadowy conspiracy of
muslims is preferable to the idea that chaos is real and alive and
very much true. (hakim bey is a far better guide to these regions
than most, i think...)
Yea, order is all an illusion.
It is simply an illusion that I can go to the store and not have
someone on the way check my ID to see if I am a Sunni or a Shiite.
Or that I can expect to live past 40. Or I can say whatever on
earth I want about politics or religion and neither my government
or my fellow citizens will lay a hand on me.
Its also an illusion that we've doubled the human life expectancy
in the last 100 years. Or that last night I had a toothache and I
can go to the local store, buy some excedrin and continue to march
on like nothing happened.
so this is mine:
there is no bigger puss move than the patriot act, or any case
where people laying down for government power is held up as a
common good.
I'm against the patriot act, but for this to be your proof that
Western civillization sucks just shows how intellectually hollow
you are.
remember that fucking piece of shit clinton and his fucking
wiretapping and his fucking "we must stop them thar meeelitias" and
all that shit? remember who stood for and against on the cultural
stage? partisanship - tribalism - is probably even more important
than fear when it comes to understanding politics.
For some people yes. Perhaps for others maybe they actually believe
things?
I don't know if you are a left wing nihlist or a right wing one but
you both make the same mistake.
You're correct that our society is filled with corruption, abuse,
racism and every other bad thing you can dream up.
But then you make the mistake of assuming its ever been better in
any place or amongst any other people.
Western civillization, with its science, rule of law,
representative democracy, and Greek/Judeo/Christian respect for
truth and justice has thus far been the best system for minimizing
the worst aspects of humanity.
Yes, the patriot act and drug war suck. But no, they're not the
same as concentration camps, female genital mutilation, or raping
babies because you think sex with a virgin cures AIDs.
But keep sitting in your nice, comfortable suburban house made
possible by soldiers and police and bitch about the oppression of
living in America and how stupid and weak your fellow citizens are.
And enjoy your wet dreams that anyone cares enough about you to
read your E-Mails or see what books you're reading.
|4.7.07 @ 3:50PM|#
What I really wanted was one of those little Chinese woven
tubes that hold your fingers together point to point.
They could have done one of those "Beat It"-style knife fights
where they tie one pair of arms together and duke it out with the
other. Probably would have been more entertaining than this
crap.
It's not a total bust, I suppose. At least this time there was no
embarrassingly empty vault, or perhaps a troop unit whose
confidential position could be revealed.
|4.7.07 @ 3:58PM|#
Western civillization, with its science, rule of law,
representative democracy, and Greek/Judeo/Christian respect for
truth and justice has thus far been the best system for minimizing
the worst aspects of humanity.
I remember when I was a Sophomore in highschool I asked a senior
who was in one of my gifted classes if he read comic book. He just
rolled his eyes and said; "not American comic books, they
have way too strong of a Judeo-Christian infulence."
Now that I'm 6 years wiser and have much more refiened shit-calling
skills, I find myself wishing I had a time machine.
|4.7.07 @ 4:10PM|#
Grand Chalupa, that was grand. But I wonder about this:
But keep sitting in your nice, comfortable suburban house made
possible by soldiers and police and bitch about the oppression of
living in America and how stupid and weak your fellow citizens
are.
While I know soldiers and police protect us from criminals (when
they themselves aren't busting in our homes and shooting our dogs
and children), I always figured that it was the Constitution that
made it possible for me to be as comfortable as I am. Don't get me
wrong, I appreciate what the police and military are there for
(though they're misused at least as much as not, I suspect), but
they themselves are made possible by the Constitution.
Obviously, I'm a beginner when it comes to heavy thinking on where
our rights come from and the part played by the laws we make and
how they're enforced.
VM|4.7.07 @ 4:11PM|#
Jonathan - have you seen the movie Repo Man?
time machine = UFO...
:)
Granc Ch:
you certainly highlight some horrible behaviors. The terrible
murder here in Chicago - Cabrini Green a few years ago where the
guys poured drain cleaner down her throat (qualifying officially as
the nicest thing they did to her) shows that barbarism knows no
bounds.
There are plenty of evil things in the Judeo Christian
closet.
You could argue that in some countries, barbaric behavior is
codified in law. I would posit that that is true. I would also
point out that we have had a debate in this country over "what
constitutes torture". Ten years ago, I doubt whether anybody here
would have imagined that.
Concentration camps - trail of tears? Japanese interment? There are
around 90 million americans that share the concentration camp
culture (are German).
Mai Lai?
The issue is far too complex to reduce to the "if you can read
this, thank a teacher; since it's in English, thank a soldier"
bumper sticker argument.
|4.7.07 @ 4:16PM|#
Solly: But given that the drinking age everywhere outside of
America is like 6, then immigrants, esp illegals who were not
required to learn our laws, might not think that something like
drinking muy cervezas before riding in el automobil as breaking a
law.
Isn't drunk driving illegal pretty much everywhere, regardless of
the drinking age? I don't see a connection there.
And the mocking Spanish that often laces "secure the borders"
arguments doesn't help y'all's case that you don't have anything
against Mexicans. It comes off condescending.
|4.7.07 @ 4:25PM|#
The country that has one of the longest running democracies
in the world and whose former colonies (Australia, US, South
Africa, India) are all free socities and regional superpowers is
the country that is desperate to submit to authority. Not the
Arabs, where 19 nations are either hereditary dictatorships or in
Anarchy?
Way to cherry pick democratic colonies Chalupa. What about the
thriving democracies in Sudan, Egypt, Nigeria, Sierra Leon, Iraq,
Jordan, Yemen, Oman, Sri Lanka, Burma, Kuwait, etc. Sure there are
some liberal states that were former British colonies, but there
were also a lot of murderous regimes and kleptocrats. So much for
all their former colonies being liberal democracies.
Most of those Arab countries, by the way, are British colonies.
|4.7.07 @ 4:29PM|#
But keep sitting in your nice, comfortable suburban house
made possible by soldiers and police and bitch about the oppression
of living in America and how stupid and weak your fellow citizens
are.
Oppressive regimes have police and militaries. Generally, those
organizations help maintain status quo and allow the regime to be
oppressive. It's civilian control, the rights and protections of
our constitution and free speech allowing us to hold these
organization that they're tools for good, not evil.
|4.7.07 @ 4:32PM|#
There are around 90 million americans that share the
concentration camp culture (are German).
1/3 of our population are Nazis who moved to America after World
War II?
Our country, and western civ. has it's faults (just like how every
culture in the history of earth is guilty of its occational
genocide/unspeakable acts), but we are not some goofy caricature of
the book 1984. Even with our drug war, and gitmo and the IRS we are
still more free (and healthier, and technologically advanced) than
most countries have been in the past X000 years. I hate people who
constantly give America "the greatest country ever" handjobs, but
at the same time it...whatever.
dhex, masochistic liberal|4.7.07 @ 4:46PM|#
"Maybe if you're a stoned 19 year old Ward Churchill groupie.
"
obtuse college kids shouldn't throw stones, regardless of their
tribal allegiance. (it must rip you up inside over how much pussy
they get, too, eh? man, all those parties...all that reefer...oh
young luv...)
ad hominems aside, what really kills me is the idea that somehow
everyone who disagrees with you is against "western civilization."
(and that western civilization is a monolith) you're the one
rocking the narratives about tuff-ness, right? did i hit a sore
spot? (i.e. you're not fighting the great turbaned menace right
now, are you? unless i am the menance, in which case maybe
burroughs was right about the mark inside...)
in all seriousness, must we all drown in a manichean stew where
those who do not march alongside us are clearly working for the
forces of evil?
ARE WE MEN OR ARE WE SCIENTOLOGISTS?
ahem.
so dig it:
"Yes, the patriot act and drug war suck. But no, they're not the
same as concentration camps, female genital mutilation, or raping
babies because you think sex with a virgin cures AIDs."
this is called "at least i'm not" syndrome.
you see it quite a bit in class struggle - "at least i'm not a
[insert category here]" - blacks v. gays, etc etc and so forth for
all eternity.
it's totally beyond the point, which is what makes it a great
rhetorical technique because it evades the issue at hand by
bringing in a third concern that has nothing to do with the matter
under dispute.
i.e. you complain about therapy culture and i say "well, at least
they're not like those british neo nazis" and then you'd say
something about hitler being a leftist and i'd say uh, what the
fuck does that have to do with the price of tea in china and you'd
probably counter with something about foot binding and...see? see
where this leads us? what a fucking waste of time zee culture war
is, no?
hey, the cops might victimize minorities unfairly when it comes to
prosecuting the drug war, but at least they're not enslaved!
it's a fucking stupid - transcendentally stupid - tactic and you're
smarter than that. so buck up and let's continue:
the british "a camera in every pot" approach was first and foremost
in my mind when i mentioned the appeal of authority, but on the
other hand they probably got a lot of great angles and shots of all
those busses being blown up. certainly left egg on my face,
etc.
"Yea, order is all an illusion."
try again, and this time with reading comprehension - i know i'm
poetic, but still:
"Order with a capital O"
that is: the dream of safety and security under an endless bank of
stars. nostalgia and metaphysics. the sort of emotions that
politicians sell crap like "national security" as a justification
for any old damn thing they feel like enacting.
there is no safety zone, my friend. just chances. and some chances
are better than others. however, due to my cynicism - i am neither
right nor left, but merely awake (and too cool for school) - i have
a hard time seeing further encroachment of this shining edifice of
the superstate - the greater involvement of all against all - as a
good thing.
ultimately, it also makes one wonder how "therapy culture" (which
you did not fucking explain, bruh) has to do with damn near
anything. again, it's tribalism and all, but i like hearing these
things explained. i also like decadent anti-musics so maybe these
things are connected?
"You're correct that our society is filled with corruption, abuse,
racism and every other bad thing you can dream up.
But then you make the mistake of assuming its ever been better in
any place or amongst any other people."
which is an excuse for what, exactly? hey, the slave trade in
africa is largely over, so what's the deal with genital mutilation?
it's never been better there!
again, this is a fucking stupid rhetorical technique. it's probably
great for arguing with che types, but you get the same effect with
a ball of string. (plus the string is fun)
go buy some decongestant and don't forget to sign your full name in
the registry. at least they're not slicing off the whole fucking
vagina, right?
"But keep sitting in your nice, comfortable suburban house made
possible by soldiers and police and bitch about the oppression of
living in America and how stupid and weak your fellow citizens are.
And enjoy your wet dreams that anyone cares enough about you to
read your E-Mails or see what books you're reading."
seeing as you responded, i guess we could consider me your private
dancer!
[clears throat]
Well the men come in these places
And the men are all the same
You dont look at their faces
And you dont ask their names
You dont think of them as human
You dont think of them at all
You keep your mind on the money
Keeping your eyes on the wall
Chorus
Im your private dancer
A dancer for money
Ill do what you want me to do
Im your private dancer
A dancer money
Any old music will do
I wanna make a million dollars
I wanna live out by the sea
Have a husband and some children
Yeah I guess I want a family
All the men come in these places
And the men are all the same
You dont look at their faces
And you dont ask their names
Repeat chorus twice
Deutschmarks or dollars
American express will nicely thank you
Let me loosen up your collar
Tell me do you wanna see me do the shimmy again
Repeat chorus
dhex, masochistic liberal|4.7.07 @ 4:48PM|#
"Most of those Arab countries, by the way, are British
colonies."
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! (he's hunting wabbits)
shecky|4.7.07 @ 4:50PM|#
Second of all, you guys are fucking crazy. I have no
hostility towards Hispanic immigrants. Hell, if I was them I'd try
to come here illegally too. But are you pro immigrant people
suggesting we simply let in anybody in the world who wants to come
here?
Pretty much, yeah. My nice, comfortable suburban house made
possible by pretty much by the availability of affordable goods and
services provided by foreigners.
The free markets not only consist of goods moving freely across
borders, but labor as well.
Jim Walsh|4.7.07 @ 4:54PM|#
I didn't watch the O'Reilly/Geraldo clash.
I have no interest in watching the O'Reilly/Geraldo clash.
Actually, I did catch a few seconds of the trainwreck on one of the
tabloid shows and saw it for what it was: a pair of self-promoting
yo-yos-with-egos grandstanding for ratings. Even the hardcore BO
fan (or hardcore Geraldo fan, if such an animal exists) has to
admit there's a gratuitous quality to the whole affair.
All of which would be forgivable if there was anything even
remotely entertaining about it.
What really saddens me is the number of my compatriots in the "talk
radio" biz who will no doubt watch this silliness and decide to
emulate it...
Federal Dog|4.7.07 @ 5:02PM|#
"I don't know if illegals commit less crime, but I do know that
immigrants as a whole commit waaaaaay less crime than citizens, for
a variety of reasons."
How do you know this?
VM|4.7.07 @ 5:24PM|#
"I hate people who constantly give America "the greatest country
ever" handjobs, but at the same time it...whatever."
yup!
Dhex! wow! you rock!
|4.7.07 @ 5:26PM|#
What really saddens me is the number of my compatriots in
the "talk radio" biz who will no doubt watch this silliness and
decide to emulate it...
I have a feeling that some radio hosts lie about their political
beliefs or play up outrage over stuff they secretly don't care
about for ratings...in your experience is this true?
|4.7.07 @ 5:41PM|#
I think it's time to institute a moratorium comments that are
longer than three short paragraphs. If it would be "long" in the
context of a forum post, it's too long for a blog comment.
Believe it or not, nobody cares enough about what you think to
justify the effort.
dhex, masochistic liberal|4.7.07 @ 5:46PM|#
"Believe it or not, nobody cares enough about what you think to
justify the effort."
but you care enough to post this!
i'm the stuff that INCIF dreams are made of!
you also presume i don't write like a lonely, dying man pours over
the lost chances of a failed life.
Luke Skywalker|4.7.07 @ 5:50PM|#
"nobody cares enough about what you think to justify the
effort."
I care.
|4.7.07 @ 5:54PM|#
I don't. I made three attempts to read his incoherent rant and gave up each time.
In-A-Gadda-Stravinsky|4.7.07 @ 6:01PM|#
speak for yourself yahoo
I have no problem reading long comments, and I often have an
opinion about what's communicated in said comments
Instead of suggesting rules where everyone has to alter their
behavior to accommodate your nonchalance (coupled with a short
attention span?)
why don't you try to pay attention
or go away
or maybe send a private e-mail (of perfect length) scolding our
hosts at Reason for not having enough blog posting rules to suit
your authoritarian preferences.
just suggestions
do what you want to do
you're gonna anyhow
|4.7.07 @ 6:02PM|#
Ignoring the desperate cry for help at the beginning and the
end....
this is called "at least i'm not" syndrome.
you see it quite a bit in class struggle - "at least i'm not a
[insert category here]" - blacks v. gays, etc etc and so forth for
all eternity.
it's totally beyond the point, which is what makes it a great
rhetorical technique because it evades the issue at hand by
bringing in a third concern that has nothing to do with the matter
under dispute.
When you say something like "Americans are stupid" or "The British
submit to authority" you have to define by what standard. Are they
stupid or bootlickers compared to the rest of humanity or compared
to some made up standard in your head? I assumed the former. If so,
you need to back that up and that's why I compare them to other
civillizations. If you mean the latter then what's the point of
complaining about anything? Humanity sucks and you're just
expecting it to live up to a standard that it will never be
at.
ultimately, it also makes one wonder how "therapy culture"
(which you did not fucking explain, bruh)
Well, Hulkster, from the press confrence of the returned British
sailors:
"She [the female sailor] is coming to terms with what has happened
to her - and not only Faye and her family, but all of us are
finding the press focus very uncomfortable, difficult - and we
specifically request you give all of us the space and privacy we
need, when we return to our homes"
The military treated as some sort of therapy group (or that girls
are serving in the first place, which is a different story)
would've been unthinkable 50 or so years ago. The fact that this is
now accepted discourse is what therapy culture is.
which is an excuse for what, exactly? hey, the slave trade in
africa is largely over, so what's the deal with genital mutilation?
it's never been better there!
again, this is a fucking stupid rhetorical technique. it's probably
great for arguing with che types, but you get the same effect with
a ball of string. (plus the string is fun)
go buy some decongestant and don't forget to sign your full name in
the registry. at least they're not slicing off the whole fucking
vagina, right?
If one group of people did female circumsision and the other sliced
off the whole vagina I would work to end the practice of the latter
group and call them savages before even thinking about attacking
the first group. Especially if the two groups were antagonistic
towards each other.
Thankfully, we don't live in a world where some people cut off
vaginas and some just part of the clit. We live in a world where
some people cut off part of the clit and some don't. And not only
do women get to keep their whole vaginas here, but they can come
and go as they please and not put towels on their heads.
If you say "We have problems but we sure as hell are not Africa or
the Middle East, or even Russia or China. The American people and
government deserve credit for that. We can fight the drug war at
home and at the same time fight the Islamo-crazies". I'll be happy.
You've never said so explicitly but from your tone I get that you
don't believe we're any better than them.
Cesar|4.7.07 @ 6:11PM|#
Grand Chalupa-
Some people are just more concerned about what happens in their own
country than what some barbarians do halfway around the world. I
have more of a chance of affecting policy in this country than i do
getting people in East Africa to stop chopping of their girl's
clits.
BTW, Christians in Africa and Ethiopian Jews have been known to
carry out this practice just as much as Muslims. In fact, its more
of an African practice than a specifically Muslim one. So
"Judeo-Christians" also practice FGM.
TLB|4.7.07 @ 6:12PM|#
If you side with Jerry in the "debate" you most likely don't
know much about these issues.
A significant, and perhaps disproportionate share of prisoners are
illegal aliens. Their status isn't known in many cases because they
aren't asked. So, I think it's possible Jerry Rivers was spreading
misinformation there. In 2005, the incarceration costs for the
*federal* government alone (including payments to the states) was
almost $2 billion per year:
worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44184
In FY2003, there were over 200,000 illegal aliens in state and
local jails.
More on crimes committed by illegal aliens here:
city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html
And, of course, if the illegal alien in this case had been turned
over to ICE as other cities do, he wouldn't be here and the deaths
wouldn't have occured. There isn't a "crime void" that would have
had to have been filled if the illegal alien wasn't here; without
the millions of illegal aliens here many fewer crimes would be
committed with no additional crimes to take they place of the
crimes that wouldn't occur.
And, perhaps Jerry could explain exactly how I and about 99% of
other Americans have been "luring" illegal aliens here.
Geraldo is just an opportunist, trying to trade on his name in
order to reach out to a new market. Decades ago Cheech and Chong
made fun of him, and he's just the same old joke. And, of course,
almost all of the extremist Chicanos that he courts would be the
first to turn on him due to the fact that he's half-Jewish (with
the other half being Spanish/Puerto Rican). Jerry thinks we should
let Mexicans resettle their lands *simply because* the Southwest
used to be part of Mexico:
http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/006476.html
Rivers is a loony opportunist, but I suggest everyone think through
all those other profiteers who want this just to be about drunk
driving and not illegal immigration.
|4.7.07 @ 6:15PM|#
Some people are just more concerned about what happens in
their own country than what some barbarians do halfway around the
world. I have more of a chance of affecting policy in this country
than i do getting people in East Africa to stop chopping of their
girl's clits.
Probably true. Still, its coming to Europe and America isn't going
to be able to remain free while the rest of the world is
Islamic.
My main point from the beginning is that multiculturalism has the
potentiol to destroy us all. We're not as bad as Europe, but
getting there.
Cesar|4.7.07 @ 6:18PM|#
Chupla-
Can you explain to me what *exactly* multiculturalism is? Everyone
seems to give me a different definition, and I'm almost starting to
believe its a strawman set up by conservatives.
|4.7.07 @ 6:22PM|#
Does anyone here have any suggestions on how to jazz up some
bean soup? I made navy bean soup yesterday and it is, how you say,
"lackluster". It is bland as all get-out.
Additives that are out of the question: onions or hot sauce. I'm
allergic to the former and the latter is just too obvious a
suggestion. Any other suggestions from people with cooking know-how
would be appreciated.
Also: I watched Barry Lyndon yesterday. I hadn't seen that movie
for years, but I got it as a present for my birthday this year. It
is really a great movie. I recommend this Kubrick classic. (Barry
Lyndon's son Brian is my favorite character).
|4.7.07 @ 6:25PM|#
Isn't drunk driving illegal pretty much everywhere,
regardless of the drinking age? I don't see a connection
there.
In Central and South America, the laws are rarely enforced, and in
a few countries there's no law against it at all; the Dominican
Republic for one. So it's not beyond the pale that a foreigner
might not realize that the authorities take a rather dim view of it
in this country.
|4.7.07 @ 6:27PM|#
Does anyone here have any suggestions on how to jazz up some
bean soup? I made navy bean soup yesterday and it is, how you say,
"lackluster". It is bland as all get-out.
Chopped-up bacon? That's what springs to my mind. Unless of course
you don't dig swine, in which case I got nothing.
|4.7.07 @ 6:33PM|#
Can you explain to me what *exactly* multiculturalism is?
Everyone seems to give me a different definition, and I'm almost
starting to believe its a strawman set up by
conservatives.
I don't feel like explaining it to you. I think the wikipedia
article on it is sufficient.
Cesar|4.7.07 @ 6:36PM|#
Chalupa-
Would you agree that extreme nationalism would be just as likely to
destroy the west (as it almost did in the 20th century) as extreme
multiculturalism would be?
|4.7.07 @ 6:43PM|#
It seems like Dhex and Chalupa are the two monoliths of this
discussion, both rather informed and intelligent, both of them
incredably passionate about their positions and witty enough to
phrase their arguements articulately.
Democratically the big win would go to Dhex for his wonderful
singing voice (which I'm told garners votes these days like nothing
else in the nation) but the focus can easily be moved away from who
is right and who is wrong to the fact that the points brought up in
their discussion are vastly superior to anything O'reily or Geraldo
have said. By which I mean ever, not just in the video, ever. Is it
possible that this entire online arguement has been falsified to
garner hits to the website? Perhaps they are a clever marketing
ploy. I think a cage match is in order. They can fight by using the
hollowed out skulls of O'reily and Geraldo taped to sticks.
The only real problem with watching them fight it out is the fact
that, to at least some extent, they're both right. Or if not right
they've both got an arguement that won't stop under any
circumstances save for total world destruction in which case it
will be taken up by cockroaches.
There won't be a resolution to this here, or anywhere else.. maybe
ever. To which I add, somebody pass the nachos becuase it's fun to
watch.
Ok, so maybe we've got ' is female circumcision fecking crazy'
pretty much settled already but it's still about as unlikely to get
resolved.
Single Issue Voter|4.7.07 @ 6:44PM|#
Did "extreme nationalism" play a part in the destruction of the
Soviet Union?
Did Britain, the United States,and the Soviet exploitation of
Russian nationalism use "extreme nationalism to defeat the
Axis?
I'll say NO Cesar.
Multicultualism is far more of a threat.
|4.7.07 @ 6:44PM|#
Would you agree that extreme nationalism would be just as
likely to destroy the west (as it almost did in the 20th century)
as extreme multiculturalism would be?
At this point, no, no a thousand times no. Not with Europe rolling
over for the Islamic invasion.
Nationalism is what led the Nazis to march over Europe but its also
what led the British and Russians to resist. Today Britain would
react the same way its 15 sailors did in Iran, or even worse, like
the French.
Cesar|4.7.07 @ 6:48PM|#
So, the rise of a neo-fascist government in France that forcibly deports its entire Muslim population is preferable to have a Muslim minority? BTW, check my URL if you want to feel calmer about the "invasion" of Europe.
|4.7.07 @ 6:50PM|#
I propose we all become extreme nationalists towards countries
we don't live in. All of the world's problems will be humorously
shifted in such a way as to cease war. Sure Israel and Iran will
still hate one another, but they'll be represented by people in
more secular countries which who'll hate each other more as a
hobby. Iran can become nationalist on behalf of Denmark and Israel
can passionately speak out on behalf of Japan and we'll all be
settled.
Becuase I'm proud to be an American who'd be prouder to be
Canadian.
|4.7.07 @ 7:20PM|#
Chopped-up bacon? That's what springs to my mind. Unless of
course you don't dig swine, in which case I got nothing.
I second that. I'm blantently stealing this from another recipie,
but also try adding either (or both) pouring in bottle pilsner beer
along with your stock (if you're using stock) or, If you have a
hand-mixer, tear up three pieces of bread and throw it in, pureeing
it after you're done simmering.
|4.7.07 @ 8:12PM|#
Thanks for the ideas, Shem and Jonathan. I don't have any pork products at my disposal currently, but maybe I can take it to my parents' on Easter tomorrow and feed it some ham or bacon.
|4.7.07 @ 8:21PM|#
speak for yourself yahoo
I have no problem reading long comments, and I often have an
opinion about what's communicated in said comments
Instead of suggesting rules where everyone has to alter their
behavior to accommodate your nonchalance (coupled with a short
attention span?)
why don't you try to pay attention
or go away
Or maybe you could:
1) Learn to express yourself in fewer (and better chosen)
words.
2) Chill on the "righteous indignation" BS--as if I was treading on
your god-given right to post absurd, incoherent essays on blog
posts. It's called a "recommendation," buddy. If you don't want to
agree with me, feel free not to. Just don't expect me not to scroll
right past the term papers you post on here.
|4.7.07 @ 8:28PM|#
I don't reckon I could make it through life allergic to
onions.
Hoppy Easter all!
|4.7.07 @ 9:13PM|#
hanks for the ideas, Shem and Jonathan. I don't have any
pork products at my disposal currently, but maybe I can take it to
my parents' on Easter tomorrow and feed it some ham or
bacon.
You might want to scratch my idea, your mileage my very, but I just
added some bacon and beer to lentil soup, even though I'm pretty
sure it has the quickest cooking time out of all of the beans, a
lot of the bacon and beer flavor has been either cooked out or is
overpowered by the beans. Although there is some beer'n'bacon taste
in it, and it works well with the lentils, so if you experiment
with the proportion or methods you might be able to get it to
work.
|4.7.07 @ 9:22PM|#
I kept waiting to hear chants of, "Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!"
followed by Geraldo and Bill ripping their shirts off while leaving
their ties on and staging a fight.
Funny stuff.
|4.7.07 @ 9:32PM|#
I almost forgot just how much of an idiot blow-hard Bill O'Reilly is. The sickness in my stomach that I feel watching this clip is only made greater when I realize how popular his show is. I am made sicker sicker still when it occurs to me that people who watch his show also vote.
_______|4.7.07 @ 9:44PM|#
Not half as sick as the fact that people who listen to NPR vote.I'm all for the disenfranchisement of anyone with a liberal arts grad degree or anyone employed in the "education sector".
|4.7.07 @ 10:03PM|#
Forgive me for distracting further from the spectical of two
idiots fighting, but another famous idiot almost blew himself up
today and since Reason won't be updating till Monday I felt like
sharing. Fark.com has a link to it. Apparently the president was
being shown a new hybrid hydrogen-electric car today and was about
to put the electric plug in the wrong tank and blow himself and
Cheney into something enviormentally friendly mulch when he was
stopped by the CEO of Ford Motors.
Apparently someone had left the cord closer to the hydrogen tank.
Could a Ford employee have been planning something? Thoughts?
|4.7.07 @ 10:09PM|#
I am made sicker sicker still when it occurs to me that
people who watch his show also vote.
...and raise children.
|4.7.07 @ 10:27PM|#
...from what I understand about O'Riely's ratings, grandchildren would be a better way to describe it.
|4.7.07 @ 10:38PM|#
In my experience most of the people who watch Bill O'reily do so for the novelity of a mental invalid having televised temper tantrums. I suppose that's blithely optimistic of me but I can't wrap my mind around the idea of someone taking this person seriously. I have to assume that everyone's just playing a major joke on someone rather than accept that people actually agree with the guy... I mean it MUST be a dream, who would ever hire Geraldo in real life?
dhex, masochistic liberal|4.7.07 @ 10:42PM|#
"The military treated as some sort of therapy group (or that
girls are serving in the first place, which is a different story)
would've been unthinkable 50 or so years ago. The fact that this is
now accepted discourse is what therapy culture is."
ok. i think you confuse what you call "therapy culture" (which
seems to be "acknowledging feelings") with public relations, but
that's understandable.
dhex, masochistic liberal|4.7.07 @ 11:07PM|#
man, my national greatness fucked up reason's server. let's try
again!
"The military treated as some sort of therapy group (or that girls
are serving in the first place, which is a different story)
would've been unthinkable 50 or so years ago. The fact that this is
now accepted discourse is what therapy culture is."
ok. i think you confuse what you call "therapy culture" (which
seems to be "acknowledging feelings") with public relations, but
that's understandable.
full text here:
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/06/sailors.statement/index.html
i just don't really see the issue here, or how what you quoted
above is more dangerous than having a government video camera up
your asshole while you're eating bangers and mash. to me that
sounded like standard relations stuff.
i mean, what would you have done in that situation? "we shall
execute them at dawn" ?
are you more manly machine than man? are you really that much of a
TUFF GUY (tm) or what?
sounds a little unreasonable. just a teeny little bit. derbyshire's
such a fucking tuff guy he's killed what, thousands of people? with
just his bare hands? what's that? just by looking at them? oh
crap!
gentlemen, we have our WMD - WMD FOR GREAT JUSTICE!
"If one group of people did female circumsision and the other
sliced off the whole vagina I would work to end the practice of the
latter group and call them savages before even thinking about
attacking the first group. Especially if the two groups were
antagonistic towards each other."
see, i don't really understand what this has to do with criticizing
the american government. i'm a little less into moral relativity
than you are, i guess. to me, wrong is wrong. it's wrong to
mutilated genitals and treat women as property. it's wrong to throw
people in jail for operating their own bodies without harming
others. it's wrong to drag people away in the middle of the night,
or to burst in on the innocent when they're sleeping due to bad
information or simply a desire to "be right" and "get even." i
don't really care which fucking gang of assholes is doing it so
much as that it is being done.
on the other hand, i'm not so full of cares about circumcision (the
old jewish kind, where they snip the front bit of the meat casing,
if you get my drift) which is some kinda weird moral relativity of
its own.
the world is a very strange place.
"If you say "We have problems but we sure as hell are not Africa or
the Middle East, or even Russia or China. The American people and
government deserve credit for that. We can fight the drug war at
home and at the same time fight the Islamo-crazies". I'll be happy.
You've never said so explicitly but from your tone I get that you
don't believe we're any better than them."
ok, now who's surrendering to therapy culture? you just want a
little emotional give and take?
give me a fucking break, dude. you're mr. ZOMG TEH LIBRUHZ MUSLIMS
CLITS GONE FUUUUUUUUCK SURRENDER MONKIES in post one of almost any
thread - i got my at home nickname from you, in case you don't
remember - and now it's like "i just want to build a bridge."
the biggest issue, again, is that our own government is engaged in
pulling apart the things that make western civilization finger
lickin' good, and more importantly - since there are massive
aspects of what you're calling "western civilization" that didn't
exist until 80 years (or less) ago - they're shitting on good,
recent innovations as well.
as someone mentioned earlier, having a discussion on just how much
torture is enough or how some kinds of torture aren't really
torture were often justified with "but the bad guys are
worse."
that's beyond unprincipled.
it's hella lame.
and totally pussy.
p.s. i really hope sigh reads this. the whole fucking thing. every
last goddamn word. twice. in quick succession. and then translates
it in babelfish or the nonunion open-source equivalent to a
multitude of barbarous tongues, which are then spread unto p2p
networks like a virus of perfect love.
love.
|4.7.07 @ 11:33PM|#
Gonna reply to three in one here...
Apparently someone had left the cord closer to the hydrogen tank.
Could a Ford employee have been planning something?
Thoughts?
Yeah, you're a waste of flesh.
ok. i think you confuse what you call "therapy culture" (which
seems to be "acknowledging feelings") with public relations, but
that's understandable.
How much you feel is based on the culture you're raised in. From
what I hear (I'm not old enough to know fisthand), previous
generations would've behaved diffentley. The willingness to
denounce your county based on "psychological pressure" while the
world is watching depends on the character of the individual.
"Therapy culture" is something I say and just assume eveybody knows
what I'm talking about. Apparentley not. Wikipedia doesn't have an
article I can refer you guys to. I'm better at giving examples than
providing definitions, so here are some....
-the success of Dr. Phil and Oprah
-Going to parties, seeing guys afraid of approaching women and then
bonding over their pussiness
-A Time magazine article on the army reveals that they keep studies
on post trumatic stress disorder among soldies
-Not only the British Royal Navy acknowledging feelings, but the
fact that this is thought to be good PR
-the expansion of the welfare state
-in 1980 Regan asked "Are you better off than you were four years
ago?" Back in the day, that wouldn't have worked because you didn't
think how well off you are depended on government
-Anti-discrimination laws. Like anybody owes you a job
-Labor unions
-In our culture men wanting women for sex are demonized. Women
wanting emotional connection is seen as the ultimate good
-The destruction of of the idea of personal responsibility, which
is connected to all the socialist evil mentioned above
If I remember correctly, I called you a masochistic liberal because
of your islmao-apologism. Taking the name for yourself is sot of,
well, masochistic.
As for those British troops, I had a tootache last night and went
through more physical pain then they did. I made a conscious
decision that if I had the chance to denounce America to Persians
to end the pain I wouldn't. That makes me a better man then those
British sailors.
Anyways, its been fun but this is going nowhere. In conclusion,
death to multiculturalism, islam and overall pusiness.
Dhex, you're an excellent writer. I've enjoyed reading
this.
HA, I guess witing a love letter to yourself is more believable if
you uncharacteristically use correct punctuation and grammar.
|4.7.07 @ 11:47PM|#
Many apologies to the Great Burrito for interupting his several hour departure from the internet with a topic likely to invoke discussion. Forgive me oh wise one for throwing something out there that didn't directly massage your ego. I know how sensative some men are about anything that interupts their posturing. So are you angry about therapy culture becuase it interuped a snuff film you were watching or do you just hate not being able to stop people from hiring based on race? Is that really something you want to throw into a category you're against?
|4.8.07 @ 1:00AM|#
p.s. i really hope sigh reads this. the whole fucking thing.
every last goddamn word. twice. in quick succession. and then
translates it in babelfish or the nonunion open-source equivalent
to a multitude of barbarous tongues, which are then spread unto p2p
networks like a virus of perfect love.
love.
I skimmed it. Once. I can only take so much abuse of the rules of
proper punctuation and grammar.
Goldwater Conservative|4.8.07 @ 1:20AM|#
So, what does everyone think about the new Don Imus racial controvery?
|4.8.07 @ 1:41AM|#
I have a feeling that some radio hosts lie about their
political beliefs or play up outrage over stuff they secretly don't
care about for ratings...in your experience is this
true?
Absolutely, though it has more to do with the follow-the-leader
mentality. A lot of these guys believe that being conservative
atuomatically translates to ratings. Surprise, surprise...It
doesn't.
|4.8.07 @ 2:49AM|#
VM,
Re: The Cabrini-Green attack on "Girl X"
I really wish I hadn't know about that. I'm suddenly sympathetic to
the efforts on Dateline's "To Catch A Predator" series, and I don't
know how I feel about that. I guess it's really true that one can
be "mugged by reality". The pigfucker who did that to that poor
girl was a prior convict for sex offenses, and I'm aware that maybe
these registries aren't as bad as some reason writers have
tried to portray them.
Goddamn, humanity can reach some incredible depths sometimes.
The Wine Commonsewer|4.8.07 @ 8:38AM|#
The willingness to denounce your county based on
"psychological pressure" while the world is watching depends on the
character of the individual.
When the photos of the Pueblo were released the crew was giving the
camera the finger.
Guy Montag|4.8.07 @ 9:25AM|#
So, what does everyone think about the new Don Imus racial
controvery?
What happened now? I hesitate to imagine because those goofballs on
that show can come up with pretty stupid stuff to get
attention.
I remember Howard Stern and Robin used to talk about Imus calling
Robin a "nigger" at work when they were at the same station. They
did sound serious, but you never know about them either.
Guy Montag|4.8.07 @ 9:43AM|#
Imus or Packer?
So, Imus showed is true racist colors calling the Rutger's women's
basketball players "nappy-headed hoe's". Then again, there was that
"cntroversy" a few years ago about the pook Nappy Hair,
which had nothing racist at all, other than in the heads of the
knee-jerk critics.
Also, Billy Packer said "fag". Somehow this did not become huge
news like when Ann Coulter said you can not use "faggot" in public
or you have to go to rehab. Must be the letter count that
determines how much news a comment gets.
dhex, masochistic liberal|4.8.07 @ 9:46AM|#
chalupa, you're serious? you're really serious about dr. phil
and feelings and all that shit? what does it have to do with labor
unions? or anything else on your list?
feelings?
nothing more than...feelings?
fuck man, you win. i can't compete with that.
death to all people i don't like! waah waaah!
ok can't resist.
"-In our culture men wanting women for sex are demonized. Women
wanting emotional connection is seen as the ultimate good"
you are such a fucking virgin.
Guy Montag|4.8.07 @ 9:47AM|#
ACK! Do-over on first paragraph:
So, Imus showed is true racist colors calling the Rutger's women's basketball players "nappy-headed hoe's". Then again, there was that "controversy" a few years ago about the book Nappy Hair, which had nothing racist at all, other than in the heads of the knee-jerk critics.
dhex, masochistic liberal|4.8.07 @ 9:54AM|#
"As for those British troops, I had a tootache last night and
went through more physical pain then they did. I made a conscious
decision that if I had the chance to denounce America to Persians
to end the pain I wouldn't. That makes me a better man then those
British sailors."
also, thank you for making my otherwise zombie jesus day hell with
the in-laws a little brighter. solid gold.
VM|4.8.07 @ 10:03AM|#
"Goldwater Conservative | April 8, 2007, 1:20am | #
So, what does everyone think about the new Don Imus racial
controversy?"
Hi AuH2O!
He needs to stick to being a political shock jock. He was out of
his element straying into that material.
Tony Kornheiser doesn't even venture that far. That style is beyond
what I prefer, so I don't know if there is a fan base that does
appreciate that. (Stern? Limbaugh? Liddy? Franken?)
I didn't think it was funny, but I particularly got a kick out of
the thought that any one of those athletes could kick his ass
:)
***********
"went through more physical pain then they did."
oooh.
I guess the F 15 eagle pilot (named David) who told of his tale
after GW1 - they took him into a room, had a "pastor" there, and
they put a gun to his head. They mentioned his family, they talked
about some other stuff, and they put the gun to his head, and
pulled the trigger.
He made a statement on TV after that.
Your Sabertooth Tiger Toothache mother of all ambisol Hippo teeth
elephant tusk rotten gumline hurt a helluva lot more than that
experience.
John Nichol
probably could hold out a little more than thou. Nah. You had a
toof-ake. pat pat.
and
these experiences, too
Bummer that the Dropped Chalupa wasn't there to get all chuck
norris on their asses.
What are you majoring in?
Who are you gonna room with next semester?
ktc2|4.8.07 @ 11:17AM|#
It's all closet racism IMO.
If all these illegals were hot european nurses entering the country
by boat nobody say a damn thing. (Except maybe the us women).
|4.8.07 @ 11:39AM|#
Also, Billy Packer said "fag". Somehow this did not become
huge news like when Ann Coulter said you can not use "faggot" in
public or you have to go to rehab. Must be the letter count that
determines how much news a comment gets.
Or maybe the words of a nobody don't get as much scrutiny as the
words of a woman who gets invited to speak at, among other places,
a major political party's convention.
Watermelon In Easter Hay|4.8.07 @ 12:01PM|#
who's this Billy Packer guy?
Green Bay's mascot or somethin'?
Packer\'s Taking it (fagged ou|4.8.07 @ 12:06PM|#
Packer says he meant Rose was 'lazy'
ESPN.com news services
Billy Packer says a comment he made on "The Charlie Rose Show,"
which some have claimed was a slur at gays, was not.
Last Friday, on the eve of the Final Four, Rose told Packer he
could get to Atlanta to be a runner. "... I could jump on a plane
and could be there," Rose said.
Packer's response: "You always fag out on that one for me, you
know. You always say, 'Oh, yes, I'm going to be the runner,' then
you never show up."
Fagged out, by most dictionary definitions, means to tire or weary
by labor or to exhaust.
Packer, in a telephone interview with the Philadelphia Inquirer,
said that was the definition he was using.
"I said he fagged out on me and it had nothing to do with sexual
connotation," he told the Inquirer. "I got to know Charlie a number
of years ago and have great admiration for his program and
intellect. He is a big Dukie, and he has been talking a number of
years about coming to the Final Four to be a runner."
CBS vice president of communications LeslieAnne Wade called it a
"poor choice of words," but added: "Billy used the phrase as
defined in the American Heritage Dictionary, among others."
"The term has nothing to do with sexuality," Packer told the
Inquirer. "I think he is the most eligible bachelor. It's about a
guy too lazy to get the work."
Packer said he isn't going to shy away from using the term in the
future.
"I can assure you I will use that phrase again and I won't think
twice about it," he said, according to the Inquirer. "My meaning is
genuine."
-----------------------------------
remember when some wonk said "niggardly"?
same kinda gig...
highnumber|4.8.07 @ 12:28PM|#
also, thank you for making my otherwise zombie
jesus day hell with the in-laws a little brighter. solid
gold.
dhex,
I think you would love what I just blogged.
|4.8.07 @ 1:15PM|#
you are such a fucking virgin.
HA, when I want to get one over on a guy in a gathering I slap the
guy's back and go "I love this guy. Can you believe he's still a
virgin?"
I'd personally be shocked, shocked if your Hulk Hogan/Rock act ever
got you anything under 300 pounds. But nothing will be proved here.
Cause in the end, I'll go back to my beautiful, pleasant reality as
an alpha male and you'll play one on the internet.
Fluffy|4.8.07 @ 1:15PM|#
Guy, I guess you missed the part where Imus called them
jiggaboos.
I would agree that the word "nappy" is pretty neutral, since I just
heard it five seconds ago [for just one example] in the Stevie
Wonder song "I Wish".
But I don't really know of any way to construe the word "jiggaboo"
as anything but a slur.
And is anyone else having site functionality issues? Each time I
browse to Hit and Run IE spawns fifteen 404 file not found pages on
top of the Hit and Run page itself.
|4.8.07 @ 1:22PM|#
I think these weekend open threads really illustrate an
interesting point about human nature (or, well, the nature of
humans that frequently comment on H&R).
When left to our own devices without a relatively constant stream
of new things to refocus our attention, conversations eventually
devolve into poo-slinging contests with comments like:
you are such a fucking virgin.
and
I'd personally be shocked, shocked if your Hulk Hogan/Rock act
ever got you anything under 300 pounds. But nothing will be proved
here. Cause in the end, I'll go back to my beautiful, pleasant
reality as an alpha male and you'll play one on the
internet.
True, the original content was hardly enough to sustain deep,
meaningful conversation for a full weekend. But it must mean
something that it only took about a day and a half for people to
start viciously attacking each other.
Like a rabid wolf starved of food, we begin to devour
ourselves.
dhex al jihad, destroyer of in|4.8.07 @ 2:25PM|#
hey sigh, what about the hateful things you said concerning my
overly long (and incredibly florid) emails? man is wolf to man,
indeed...lupus, lupine thyself. (speaking of wolves, my father in
law can't chew with his mouth closed...)
chalupa: i mean you write like a 20 year old virgin. you may or may
not be one. i think you may be a timmy, however. (sorry timothy, i
didn't invent the term, i only use it for the sake of western
civilization, in its pre-south park, mid 90s sense, which i feel
has possibly been corrupted by the popularity of their heroic,
differently-abled monomaniac.)
and even with current exchange rates being what they are, i make
well over 300 pounds. you're crazy. (full stats: bald, reddish
blonde beard, blue-grey eyes, 6'4", 260lbs, married...but
flirty!)
i mean, you're the tuff guy (tm) whose toothache (is your dentist a
muslim? better check!) makes you harder than the soldiers who were
captured, remember? needless to say we have wildly different frames
of reference. even with a conflict that has doomed us to decades of
bad things (tm, patent pending) i would shy away from insulting
people at the front lines.* it seems kind of silly, at best, if one
were to be charitable. isn't it sort of laughable - again, being
charitable - to compare a toothache with being captured by
iranians? (this is your cue to jump in about how the toothache can
actually be fixed unlike cowardly british people, and maybe figure
out a way to include oprah and/or feelings and maybe a dig at
socialized medicine.)
don't get me wrong, it's not LGF stupid, but it does smack of, uh,
cervantes-esque bravado. (fun trivia: a google search for "retarded
bravado gets 6 hits; "cervantes-esque bravado" gets 0, at least
until i post this and google updates.)
ps. compassion gets you laid hardcore. peep it. probably prevents
heart disease as well, physical and spiritual.
"And is anyone else having site functionality issues? Each time I
browse to Hit and Run IE spawns fifteen 404 file not found pages on
top of the Hit and Run page itself."
that sounds more like a virus, but if it only happens with H+R...
does IE have popup blocker functionality? it might be upset with
the settings? (i rock the firefox, though 2.0 is stupid leaky on
macs)
*(calling george bush a chickenhawk, on the other hand, seems
entirely appropriate, especially since it takes less words to write
than "mass murdering fuckhead piece of shit subhuman assface who
were there any justice on this ball of mud would have been tried
for war crimes months ago")
|4.8.07 @ 3:19PM|#
hey sigh, what about the hateful things you said concerning
my overly long (and incredibly florid) emails? man is wolf to man,
indeed...lupus, lupine thyself. (speaking of wolves, my father in
law can't chew with his mouth closed...)
1) That's why I used the first person plural in my last comment.
Duh. ("WE begin to devour OURselves.")
2) My post wasn't really hateful, just the truth. Your posts are
too long, and not worth reading.
|4.8.07 @ 3:45PM|#
Apparently the president was being shown a new hybrid
hydrogen-electric car today and was about to put the electric plug
in the wrong tank and blow himself and Cheney into something
enviormentally friendly mulch when he was stopped by the CEO of
Ford Motors.
Ummm, no. Not to defend ol' Darth Dubya, but RTFA.
"Ford wanted to give the Commander-in-Chief an actual demonstration
of the innovative vehicle, so the automaker arranged for an
electrical outlet to be installed on the South Lawn and ran a
charging cord to the hybrid. However, as Mulally followed Bush out
to the car, he noticed someone had left the cord lying at the rear
of the vehicle, near the fuel tank.
"I just thought, 'Oh my goodness!' So, I started walking faster,
and the President walked faster and he got to the cord before I
did. I violated all the protocols. I touched the President. I
grabbed his arm and I moved him up to the front," Mulally said. "I
wanted the president to make sure he plugged into the electricity,
not into the hydrogen This is all off the record, right?"
Nice design. Another better idea from Ford.
|4.8.07 @ 4:02PM|#
I'll uplift the Open Thread. At church today I saw someone who went to college with my husband and me. This was from 1981 - 1984. Steve commented that the guy slinking away from the coffee and donuts looked an awful lot like Old College Buddy. I followed OCB, who turned around and told me in response to "how are you?" and such, "my life is a total mess," which pretty much stomped on the old home week stuff. Now, should I have spoken to him or not?
dhex al jihad, destroyer of in|4.8.07 @ 4:38PM|#
well, at least now you know his life is a mess. besides, if you
hadn't spoken to him, you'd be wondering the whole time if he was
the same guy.
still sucks, though.
VM|4.8.07 @ 5:03PM|#
"2) My post wasn't really hateful, just the truth. Your posts
are too long, and not worth reading."
your posts might not be hateful, but they reflect your opinion, not
"the Truth".
I for one welcome our Dhex overlord.
|4.8.07 @ 5:38PM|#
dhex al jihad, destroyer of infidels
Dude, just go away.
And by go away I don't mean give us another ten page post on how
much attention you're getting.
|4.8.07 @ 5:54PM|#
after you're done simmering
= the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself.
He loved Big Brother.
|4.8.07 @ 6:11PM|#
your posts might not be hateful, but they reflect your
opinion, not "the Truth".
I for one welcome our Dhex overlord.
"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos."
Say, aren't overdo for another two-page post from the D-man? I'm
getting impatient, with no new comments to skim dismissively.
|4.8.07 @ 6:15PM|#
Wow, Sigh, you sure seem to spend a lot of energy making sure everyone here knows how little energy you spend on dhex's posts.
|4.8.07 @ 6:21PM|#
Thanks, dhex. I also thought that at least this time my husband was with me, as opposed to every other Sunday when it's just me and the boys, who are, shall we say, energetic.
|4.8.07 @ 6:34PM|#
Just cuz GW threads are always so fun around here...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/02/news/climate.php
n almost every instance, the people most at risk from climate
change live in countries that have contributed least to the
atmospheric buildup of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases
linked to the recent warming of the planet."
"he large industrialized countries are more resilient partly
because of geography; they are mostly in mid-latitude regions with
Goldilocks climates - neither too hot nor too cold.
Many enjoy gifts like the thick rich soil and generous growing
season of the American corn belt or the forgiving weather of France
and New Zealand.
But a bigger factor is their wealth - wealth built at least partly
on a century or more of burning coal, oil and the other fossil
fuels that underlie their mobile, industrial, climate-controlled
way of life."
Discuss.
|4.8.07 @ 6:43PM|#
Or try this
http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2007/03/welcome_back_now_what.php
"The Bush administration has been the chief prosecutor of an
ongoing war on science, but until now a look-the-other-way
Republican Congress has served as accomplice. Here, I propose five
actions that Democrats should take to help set matters
straight."
1)The use of committee hearings to explore abuses of science.
2)restore Congress's Office of Technology Assessment
3)establish a procedure for vetting the experts who testify to
congress on scientific topics.
4) limited legislation should be passed to restore scientific
integrity
5) rely on major, peer-reviewed scientific assessment reports
rather than scientific claims made by their own constituents and
supporters
Discuss
|4.8.07 @ 6:46PM|#
4) limited legislation should be passed to restore
scientific integrity
What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
|4.8.07 @ 6:53PM|#
Scientific research is just like any other good or service when it comes to supply and demand. The government should stay leave such a subject alone, they should neither interfere nor try to "help"
|4.8.07 @ 7:11PM|#
Hey, Chalupa,
"As for those British troops, I had a tootache last night and went
through more physical pain then they did. I made a conscious
decision that if I had the chance to denounce America to Persians
to end the pain I wouldn't. That makes me a better man then those
British sailors."
I'm curious - while you were typing that, did you have one of those
cushy wrist supports, so your handsies don't get sore?
No, seriously, I have a serious point to make - the techniques used
on those sailors and marines, the ones that got them to admit to
all kinds of lies and say exactly what was needed for a show trial,
are what you've spent five years insisting our government use to
gather the intelligencr that our policymakers and fighting men use
to understand the threats we face.
Goldwater Conservative|4.8.07 @ 7:56PM|#
Those British sailors were military members of the worst sort.
Their brand of cowardice ought to be illegal. Say what you want
about John McCain, but once upon a time he was going through real
torture.
If American Marines ever become that weak, we are screwed. I like
my military like I like my women: fucking crazy and courageous.
|4.8.07 @ 8:50PM|#
Karen, Happy Easter.
I hope the following doesnt sound sarcastic. I dont mean it to
be.
OCB may have just needed some good folks to pray with him over his
crappy life. We oftentimes at church tell lies by answering, "I am
doing great, and you?"
If OCB is just bein a pain for the sake of sympathy,(or to flirt in
that wierd middle aged loser way,) then you and hubby take him by
the hand to the altar and get the whole congregation to lay hands
and pray without ceasing.
p.s. are the donuts free?
|4.8.07 @ 8:57PM|#
No, seriously, I have a serious point to make - the techniques used
on those sailors and marines, the ones that got them to admit to
all kinds of lies and say exactly what was needed for a show trial,
are what you've spent five years insisting our government use to
gather the intelligencr that our policymakers and fighting men use
to understand the threats we face.
When Al-Qaida signs the Geneva Convention then we can apply the
rules to them. For now, the hands of the people on the ground
shouldn't be tied.
|4.8.07 @ 8:58PM|#
Re the British sailors: let's be fair...you were'nt there, you don't really know what they were threatened with (pardon the awkward syntax). To paraphrase Lenny Bruce, if you can take even the threat of the ol' Hot Lead Enema, then you can cast the first stone.
|4.8.07 @ 8:59PM|#
n almost every instance, the people most at risk from
climate change live in countries that have contributed least to the
atmospheric buildup of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases
linked to the recent warming of the planet.
Good, maybe then they'll embrace capitalism and be able to afford
sunscreen and dams.
|4.8.07 @ 9:35PM|#
But a bigger factor is their wealth - wealth built at least
partly on a century or more of burning coal, oil and the other
fossil fuels that underlie their mobile, industrial,
climate-controlled way of life."
I hate to sound triumphalist about this, but another reason for
this wealth is the fact that we maintain stable governments and the
rule of law rather than lopping off the heads of those in the next
village at the slightest provocation.
As far as the latitude envy goes, well, I bet the people who stayed
in Africa laughed when they saw those fools headed out of the
tropical paradise, north into the snowpack of Ice Age Europe. Who's
laughin' now, huh?
|4.8.07 @ 9:43PM|#
And is anyone else having site functionality issues? Each
time I browse to Hit and Run IE spawns fifteen 404 file not found
pages on top of the Hit and Run page itself.
Fluffy, I think your functionality issue is that you're using
friggin' IE. WHY?!!!!
Single Issue Voter|4.8.07 @ 9:51PM|#
NM,
re: your proposed discussion topics...
Global Warming: Minorities and Women Hit Hardest
Fuck Science
We don't need a politicized Priesthood
"real" science will stand on its own merits
without the support or suppression of the State
|4.8.07 @ 9:53PM|#
I hate to sound triumphalist about this, but another reason
for this wealth is the fact that we maintain stable governments and
the rule of law rather than lopping off the heads of those in the
next village at the slightest provocation.
Pretty hard to maintain a stable government when you have western
powers conspiring with elements of your own society in order to
maintain instability so that they can better exploit the country's
natural resources, while adding nothing whatsoever to the
infrastructure. It's pretty dickish to say "you guys would be
better off if you'd only manage to overcome the tribalism and weak
central governments that we created to benefit ourselves then never
fixed."
As far as the latitude envy goes, well, I bet the people who
stayed in Africa laughed when they saw those fools headed out of
the tropical paradise, north into the snowpack of Ice Age Europe.
Who's laughin' now, huh?
How charming. Hey, you keep thinking that an accident of birth
makes you more worthy of existence than someone who had the
misfortune of being born in a less developed area.
|4.8.07 @ 10:08PM|#
Pretty hard to maintain a stable government when you have
western powers conspiring with elements of your own society in
order to maintain instability so that they can better exploit the
country's natural resources, while adding nothing whatsoever to the
infrastructure.
Oh please. Without western technology those resources are worthless
anyway.
I've been asleep for the last hundred years. Have any countries
ever kicked out the foreigners and tried modernize through state
planning? If so, how did it work out?
Single Issue Voter|4.8.07 @ 10:15PM|#
Chalupa,
You are winning the later portion of this thread.
Shem,
"Its not FAIR!" "Her Daddy bought her a new Mustang GT and I have
to drive this old Cavalier"
|4.8.07 @ 10:20PM|#
Oh please. Without western technology those resources are
worthless anyway.
Wow, so it's okay to steal if the person I'm stealing from can't
immediately use what I'm taking? So, next time I have power and one
of my neighbors loses theirs, I can go steal their TV? After all,
that resource is useless without electricity. And, if someone's car
runs out of gas, I can fill it up and drive it off? Worthless
without gasoline.
I've been asleep for the last hundred years. Have any countries
ever kicked out the foreigners and tried modernize through state
planning? If so, how did it work out?
What part of "It's pretty dickish to say "you guys would be better
off if you'd only manage to overcome the tribalism and weak central
governments that we created to benefit ourselves then never fixed"
is difficult for you to grasp? If the western powers had taken time
to build economies instead of just practicing mercantilism on their
colonies, then things probably wouldn't have turned out so badly;
as it is, I'm not surprised central state planning is the only
thing that works; pretty hard to make a pluralistic society when
your country has been so deeply divided that the only people who
can maintain popular control are tribal demagogues.
|4.8.07 @ 10:22PM|#
"Its not FAIR!" "Her Daddy bought her a new Mustang GT and I
have to drive this old Cavalier"
No, more like "Her daddy stole the money my parents were going to
use to buy me a car to give their daughter her mustang."
|4.8.07 @ 10:27PM|#
Okay, why the fuck are you assholes criticizing the British
sailors and marines? You say they're pussies? What the fuck?
Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you? Did they give up intel?
Did people die for what they did? No? So what the fuck is the big
deal? Maybe it made your dick shrink. Our servicemembers aren't
supposed to consider that matter of national security.
You're supposed to submit and do what they want as long as it
doesn't endanger your country or fellow soldiers. Charging a
machine gun nest is the kind of thing that is dangerous, brave, and
has a point. Not trying to avoid a reasonable fear of torture or
death when they can torture you and break you anyways is the kind
of thing that is dangerous, stupid, and pointless.
Jesus, how old are you assholes?
Guy Montag|4.8.07 @ 10:40PM|#
Guy, I guess you missed the part where Imus called them
jiggaboos.
Yes, I did miss thant and it only fuels my assessment about Mr.
Imus and his snotty little attitude toward others.
I will add, Manhattan is the perfect island for him to fit in.
Guy Montag|4.8.07 @ 10:43PM|#
Okay, why the fuck are you assholes criticizing the British
sailors and marines? You say they're pussies? What the fuck?
Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you? Did they give up intel?
Did people die for what they did? No? So what the fuck is the big
deal?
Not a single member of the whole operation tried to shoot anybody
(from what I have heard sofar) and just surrendered their weapons
when the Iranians said to.
|4.8.07 @ 10:48PM|#
What part of "It's pretty dickish to say "you guys would be
better off if you'd only manage to overcome the tribalism and weak
central governments that we created to benefit ourselves then never
fixed" is difficult for you to grasp?
The West created tribalism and weak government!
as it is, I'm not surprised central state planning is the only
thing that works;
What color is the sky in your planet?
|4.8.07 @ 10:51PM|#
The British didn't fire their weapons because they are disciplined. Their rules of engagement instructed them not to light the Iranians up.
Tiffany|4.8.07 @ 10:54PM|#
"What color is the sky in your planet?"
Red like that Mustang GT that ritch bitch Cheerleader got from her
Daddy
|4.8.07 @ 10:56PM|#
I stand by my syllogism SIV. If Stockdale's actions had some positive effect, then what he did was good. If he did it for purposes of an overdeveloped sense of personal honor, then that was stupid. I don't need to laud the heroes of the past, just because they were lauded in the past.
|4.8.07 @ 11:21PM|#
Wow, Sigh, you sure seem to spend a lot of energy making
sure everyone here knows how little energy you spend on dhex's
posts.
What, you mean like three short comments? Yeah, lots of energy
there.
Single Issue Voter|4.8.07 @ 11:26PM|#
What exactly is wrong with personal honor?
Or honor of the USN or America?
Or to deny the Vietnamese Communists a propaganda victory?
Would it be OK for the honor of "working families"?
I pondering the actions of the British Marines I couldn't help but
think of Admiral Stockdale and the honorable and heroic behavior of
other Americans in enemy captivity.
|4.8.07 @ 11:30PM|#
Does personal honor do anything to win a war? Did it do anything to better the result in the Vietnam war? Sticks and stones may break my bones, and the bad opinion of other people is still a helluva a lot better than severe physical and psychological injury.
Gahan|4.8.07 @ 11:32PM|#
"Pretty hard to maintain a stable government when you have
western powers conspiring with elements of your own society in
order to maintain instability so that they can better exploit the
country's natural resources, while adding nothing whatsoever to the
infrastructure."
Since when does instability favor the extraction of natural
resources from a country? Would you invest a lot of money in
natural-resource-extracting machinery in a country where there's no
telling who will come to power and expropriate it?
Single Issue Voter|4.8.07 @ 11:35PM|#
On to real issues of great import.....
The HSUS has made outlawing cockfighting in Louisiana their top
priority. 49 states down one to go.
Louisiana has a governors race coming up.
I think Bobby Jindal is the leading Republican candidate.On the
Democrat side John Breaux intends to run despite being a resident
of Maryland. He claims a right to run despite his residency based
on the family Plantation and all that(my voter registration/tax
home is closer to Louisiana by several states than the former
senator's). If he doesn't run or is disqualified Chris John, a
staunch defender of cockfighting as wholesome family entertainment,
becomes the Dem frontrunner.
Anyone with an interest in Louisiana politics or cockfighting
please discuss.....
Single Issue Voter|4.8.07 @ 11:47PM|#
I hope Bobby Jindal has the good sense to either ignore the
issue, support cockfighting too, or plead agnostic. His parents are
from India-the ancestral home of gamefowl.
For anyone having the good fortune to be visiting
Louisiana at this time of year the ecravisse are cheap, plentiful,
fat and in season. Get yourself some crawfish and a few beers.
|4.8.07 @ 11:56PM|#
What color is the sky in your planet?
Works in a "doesn't collapse every 10 minutes" sense, not a
"provides a decent standard of living for most of the country"
sense.
The West created tribalism and weak government!
In some places they did indeed. The divisions between Hutus and
Tutsis that were played up by the Belgians is a good example of
this; prior to that, they intermarried and the divisions were
pretty nominal. It took outside powers to make it a big deal.
Since when does instability favor the extraction of natural
resources from a country?
When the nation overseeing the extraction has a monopoly of force.
It allows them to keep the indigenous people from coming together
and fighting as one, while allowing superior firepower to deal with
whatever groups challenge the colonial overseers directly.
Gahan|4.9.07 @ 12:01AM|#
"When the nation overseeing the extraction has a monopoly of
force. It allows them to keep the indigenous people from coming
together and fighting as one, while allowing superior firepower to
deal with whatever groups challenge the colonial overseers
directly."
Sounds pretty STABLE to me.
|4.9.07 @ 12:33AM|#
So basically, what you're saying, is that O'Reilly and Rivera are both kinda pricks, huh?
|4.9.07 @ 12:50AM|#
Sounds pretty STABLE to me.
Yeah, 'til they, y'know, LEAVE. Then it's a recipe for massive
repression and kleptocracy.
Gahan|4.9.07 @ 1:04AM|#
I'm not apologizing for colonialism. I'm simply pointing out that colonial powers do not benefit from "maintaining instability" but rather from maintaining a stability that benefits them.
teh|4.9.07 @ 2:27AM|#
If no one let the fake things that people say to placate their
captors affect them, then it wouldn't be a propaganda victory, and
the Iranians/North Vietnamese/whoever wouldn't bother trying to
force POWs to sign phony confessions.
The fact that you want these people to risk their safety
pointlessly in captivity so that you won't have to be subjected to
propaganda that you should be able to see right through in the
first place is inane.
Goldwater Conservative|4.9.07 @ 6:14AM|#
Admiral Stockdale shows the young'uns how it is done. This man
has more courage in his corpse than the British military will
probably ever have:
He was held as a prisoner of war in the Hoa Lo prison for the
next seven years. Locked in leg irons in a bath stall, he was
routinely tortured and beaten. When told by his captors that he was
to be paraded in public, Stockdale slit his scalp with a razor to
purposely disfigure himself so that his captors could not use him
as propaganda. When they covered his head with a hat, Stockdale
beat himself with a stool until his face was swollen beyond
recognition. He told them in no uncertain terms that they would
never use him. When Stockdale heard that other prisoners were dying
under the torture, he slit his wrists and told them that he
preferred death to submission.
Wikipedia
Fluffy|4.9.07 @ 9:36AM|#
No Shem, it's not like stealing your neighbor's TV when his
power goes out.
It's more like if aliens came down and said, "We will give you
fabulous riches in exchange for your belly button lint, steel mill
slag, and dirty baby diapers!" and then some Chomskyite asshole
stood up and said, "You're exploiting us by stealing our natural
resources!"
Oil wasn't a resource until western industrialists created a use
for it. It was a blight. The places where it bubbled to the surface
naturally were avoided as blighted. It was somewhat less valuable
to the people living over it than the dirty diapers I pay people to
haul the hell away from me.
dhex|4.9.07 @ 9:58AM|#
fabulous riches? so what's with the white man's burden routine?
is this a conservative trope i've managed to be blissfully unaware
of?
[drinking game violation]you'd think libertarians would be more
wary of the initiation of force for "someone's own good" on a giant
scale...[/drinking game violation]
|4.9.07 @ 11:59AM|#
Fluffy-Please point me to a colony in Africa that received "fabulous riches" for those supposedly "worthless" resources. As well as explain how things like iron ore and minerals that have been mined for hundreds if not thousands of years suddenly became worthless items that the colonized were lucky to be rid of.
the Anti Arundhati Roy|4.9.07 @ 12:10PM|#
"We will give you fabulous riches in exchange for your belly
button lint"
Clearly funded by the god of Small
Things
Cesar|4.9.07 @ 12:31PM|#
Chalup and SIV--
Ok, you are saying 19th century colonialism and imperialism was a
*great* thing for the victims of it, that the west has never done
*anything* wrong or committed *any* injustice. I mean the British
killing unarmed Indian protestors with machine guns was *good* for
them! And mercantilism benefited their economies.
And of course we don't have something as stupid as tribalism! Of
course we do, we just call it "nationalism" and have Kings (and now
Presidents and Parliaments) instead of tribal councils.
Get a life, if you are saying colonialism had no negative impact on
the third world or its people, you need to read some history.
dhex|4.9.07 @ 2:01PM|#
"No Shem, it's not like stealing your neighbor's TV when his
power goes out."
a better analogy would be:
a dude from across the city cuts your power. while you're wondering
what happens, he conspires with another one of your neighbors to
sell your kids into slavery. when you resist he cuts off some
limbs, if you're lucky, and begins to dismantle your house and cart
it away. at the end of the day he gives you some leftover oatmeal
and forbids the practice of your religion.
then he fucks your wife.
and then you die.
did i miss anything?
VM|4.9.07 @ 2:03PM|#
dhex:
incorporate that into a good slashfic piece, and I think we have a
great book deal!
Aakash|4.11.07 @ 5:36AM|#
It is now past 4:00 AM, and I am too worn out to write much
more... this is what happens when elections
are there (and they are always present, even in odd-numbered
years)... So I'll simply share the link of the website that I
recently designed: FrankLesko.com.
(If someone is reading this a year from now, when the domain
redirects to something else, here is the
direct link.)
Thank you for providing the Open Thread.
I hope that everyone here had a very Happy Easter!
Neha|4.12.07 @ 10:48AM|#
Essential information on To Enable Rapid Discovery and Transformation of Viable Global Technology Innovation Ideas.To know more about innovation visit Innovation Technological.This site has some more information added to the one quoted here.
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